pass me down shotgun.....question on a couple of things [Archive] - Glock Talk

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crushproof
07-13-2010, 20:43
my uncle said he's giving me one of his shot guns, and he said he'll show me how to work it and clean it. my question is what's a better manstopper, slugs or the standard pellet kind(sry don't know the term for the pellet kind lol)? and i believe the standard pellet variety is only good to a certain range, would slugs since it's basically a big bullet be better long distances and how far? and in worst case someone breaks in my house and i have no choice but to shoot, is it bad legally to shoot them with a slug, or legal with only standard ball shells? -thanks

alexanderg23
07-13-2010, 20:46
You should get some 00 Buck shot, probably some Remington at Wal-mart.

GlocksterPaulie
07-13-2010, 20:47
Stick with the 00 in the house.

Paulie

crushproof
07-13-2010, 20:53
okay 00 buckshot in the house, is it because slugs can over penetrate in the house? and at what distance would 00 buckshot be ineffective? do slugs have a better range though distance wise?

GlockPride
07-13-2010, 21:00
okay 00 buckshot in the house, is it because slugs can over penetrate in the house? and at what distance would 00 buckshot be ineffective? do slugs have a better range though distance wise?

Buckshot usually rated to about 25-30 yards max effective range and slugs generally considered with practice out to 100-125 yards. Obviously there are exceptions on different guns, ammo and shooters.

crushproof
07-13-2010, 21:08
Buckshot usually rated to about 25-30 yards max effective range and slugs generally considered with practice out to 100-125 yards. Obviously there are exceptions on different guns, ammo and shooters.

wow quite a difference range wise,thanks for the info. i forgot where i heard this from but i heard even if your in the right if you shoot someone with a slug your in trouble. any trith to that do you know?

southernshooter
07-14-2010, 14:16
wow quite a difference range wise,thanks for the info. i forgot where i heard this from but i heard even if your in the right if you shoot someone with a slug your in trouble. any trith to that do you know?

Close. If you shoot someone with a slug, THEY are in trouble.

WoodenPlank
07-14-2010, 14:42
Definitely stick with buckshot. Personally, I prefer the Remington low recoil buffered 00 I run in my 590.

David Armstrong
07-14-2010, 14:56
You have touched on one of the great arguments in the gun world. Slugs and buck are designed to do different things, but either will suffice for home defense amd both are legal for that purpose. And inside the home, both will perform somewhat similar, as the buck will not have the space to spread much. Try them both, pattern your shot at common distances, learn what your gun does. Then you can start worrying about assorted other issues. You might find you don't like the shotgun for defensive use. Also, what gauge are we talking about here?

alexanderg23
07-14-2010, 15:20
no truth to the slug legal stuff

GAFinch
07-14-2010, 17:55
Legal issues can arise if you miss your shot. Buckshot will go through a couple walls, but slugs will go through A LOT of walls and greatly increases your chances of hitting a neighbor.

Jeff82
07-14-2010, 18:56
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Dozerdog
07-14-2010, 19:38
There is also the option of loading your magazine with increasingly lethal loads... I have a seven round magazine and load it so that the first two cartridges are #4 Buck, the next two are 00 Buck and the last three are rifled slugs. If you feel that you need more effective ammo than what is next in the mag, just rack it a couple of times until the desired load is chambered. This, of course, requires practice in order to be efficient and safe. Under stress, only practiced motion come quickly and without thought.

WoodenPlank
07-14-2010, 19:43
There is also the option of loading your magazine with increasingly lethal loads... I have a seven round magazine and load it so that the first two cartridges are #4 Buck, the next two are 00 Buck and the last three are rifled slugs. If you feel that you need more effective ammo than what is next in the mag, just rack it a couple of times until the desired load is chambered. This, of course, requires practice in order to be efficient and safe. Under stress, only practiced motion come quickly and without thought.

My only issue with this is that you have now (possibly) expended 2 or 3 rounds (or more) when one round of the heavier stuff would have done the job. You are now down that many rounds when, say, the lookout standing outside rushes in to help his buddy. I keep my HD shotgun loaded strictly with 00, but my 6 round sidesaddle does hold 2 1oz SuperX slugs as an "OH ****" policy. Realistically, the only reason I would even slam one into the magazine or chamber would be on the REMOTE odds I needed to try to stop a vehicle or penetrate a barrier with it. Unfortunately, an all-lead slug isnt the best hard-barrier round, but it is the best I currently have. I imagine, though, that one of those through the radiator, tire, or car body can be pretty effective in making a vehicle slow or stop.

Dozerdog
07-14-2010, 20:04
My only issue with this is that you have now (possibly) expended 2 or 3 rounds (or more) when one round of the heavier stuff would have done the job. You are now down that many rounds when, say, the lookout standing outside rushes in to help his buddy. I keep my HD shotgun loaded strictly with 00, but my 6 round sidesaddle does hold 2 1oz SuperX slugs as an "OH ****" policy. Realistically, the only reason I would even slam one into the magazine or chamber would be on the REMOTE odds I needed to try to stop a vehicle or penetrate a barrier with it. Unfortunately, an all-lead slug isnt the best hard-barrier round, but it is the best I currently have. I imagine, though, that one of those through the radiator, tire, or car body can be pretty effective in making a vehicle slow or stop.

I see your point, but I always worry about over penetration and would prefer that the smaller, less energy, #4 Buck, be the first choice. especially if loved ones may be on the other side of the wall. I doubt that an intruders buddy would rush in from outside when shots ring out (unless he has an inordinate amount of stupid in his genes). Also, I should confess, my personal home defense weapon is my G23, but my camp defense weapon is my 870 loaded as stated above.

WoodenPlank
07-14-2010, 20:57
I see your point, but I always worry about over penetration and would prefer that the smaller, less energy, #4 Buck, be the first choice. especially if loved ones may be on the other side of the wall. I doubt that an intruders buddy would rush in from outside when shots ring out (unless he has an inordinate amount of stupid in his genes). Also, I should confess, my personal home defense weapon is my G23, but my camp defense weapon is my 870 loaded as stated above.

That is why I went for what I consider a happy medium. The reduced recoil 00 will have at lease somewhat reduced penetration from a miss (probably very little difference), but it still has enough energy (and one hell of a tight pattern) to really do a number on a BG. Plus it is less to potentially explain to a DA or jury.

annieO09
07-14-2010, 21:13
Try 7 1/2 or #8 shot. I keep a 12 gauge close by at night. It won't go through walls, hit others in the home and it won't penetrate outside walls possibly hitting neighbors. This could be a big problem for those who live in condos or apartments.

The best thing to do is take #4, 7 1/2, #8, 00 out to the range and see what kind of patterns you make on each target. Take target size pieces of drywall out if you can with you. That way you can see the impact on a wall a bit better. You will know exactly what you need to use for home defense. It will also make you feel much better about your decision. It will keep you from hesitating in the event you do have to use deadly force to protect you and your family from an intruder.

WoodenPlank
07-14-2010, 21:37
Try 7 1/2 or #8 shot. I keep a 12 gauge close by at night. It won't go through walls, hit others in the home and it won't penetrate outside walls possibly hitting neighbors. This could be a big problem for those who live in condos or apartments.

The best thing to do is take #4, 7 1/2, #8, 00 out to the range and see what kind of patterns you make on each target. Take target size pieces of drywall out if you can with you. That way you can see the impact on a wall a bit better. You will know exactly what you need to use for home defense. It will also make you feel much better about your decision. It will keep you from hesitating in the event you do have to use deadly force to protect you and your family from an intruder.

It wont penetrate walls, and it wont penetrate ribs or sternum, either. Bird shot does not have enough mass to reach vital organs, CNS, etc at anything past contact range (6cm or so) - with the primary exception of a pellet slipping between the ribs just right to penetrate a lung, etc. The chances of it reaching CNS structure, heart, etc are almost nil.
Sure, the amount of damage can stop someone, but it can also easily open you to civil suit for disfiguring/maiming the perp, etc. Thankfully, FL law does a pretty good job of protecting ME from that nonsense (FL law protects private citizens from criminal and civil prosecution if it is ruled a justifiable shoot), but this is not the case in many states.
Even standard 00 and #4 loads will not penetrate as many walls as, say, a 9mm, .45 or 5.56 round would.
Just my .02. :wavey:

ETA: Your suggestion of pattern testing loads, however, is spot on. Everyone using a shotgun for HD should do this with their defensive loads. It is part of the reason I use the particular 00 load I do - it patterned the best from my 590.

annieO09
07-14-2010, 22:30
It wont penetrate walls, and it wont penetrate ribs or sternum, either. Bird shot does not have enough mass to reach vital organs, CNS, etc at anything past contact range (6cm or so) - with the primary exception of a pellet slipping between the ribs just right to penetrate a lung, etc. The chances of it reaching CNS structure, heart, etc are almost nil.
Sure, the amount of damage can stop someone, but it can also easily open you to civil suit for disfiguring/maiming the perp, etc. Thankfully, FL law does a pretty good job of protecting ME from that nonsense (FL law protects private citizens from criminal and civil prosecution if it is ruled a justifiable shoot), but this is not the case in many states.
Even standard 00 and #4 loads will not penetrate as many walls as, say, a 9mm, .45 or 5.56 round would.
Just my .02. :wavey:

ETA: Your suggestion of pattern testing loads, however, is spot on. Everyone using a shotgun for HD should do this with their defensive loads. It is part of the reason I use the particular 00 load I do - it patterned the best from my 590.
That's why you rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance and look at the mess you left.

OR use 00 or even a slug. Take your chances that no innocent bystanders will be hit when it goes through the perp. Chances are in the heat of the moment most of us would fire more than once. That means the chances of a 00 or slug going through a wall increases. Besides I always have my .38 next to me as well.


:wavey:

Do you have change for a $20?:tongueout:

WoodenPlank
07-14-2010, 22:42
That's why you rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance, rack it, fire, advance and look at the mess you left.

OR use 00 or even a slug. Take your chances that no innocent bystanders will be hit when it goes through the perp. Chances are in the heat of the moment most of us would fire more than once. That means the chances of a 00 or slug going through a wall increases. Besides I always have my .38 next to me as well.


:wavey:

Do you have change for a $20?:tongueout:

With the bad guy likely firing back or attempting to resist the entire time? No thanks. I woudl rather send one load of 00 down range. I also know where my safe, risky, and no-shoot zones are in my apartment.

annieO09
07-14-2010, 22:53
With the bad guy likely firing back or attempting to resist the entire time? No thanks. I woudl rather send one load of 00 down range. I also know where my safe, risky, and no-shoot zones are in my apartment.

If that's the case I have my AK, M4 to choose from. My husband will provide cover. We are both prior service and he was infantry. He is training me to handle my shotguns, rifles etc...in the dark. I am sure that the perp will regret their decision to rob us...:whistling:

P.S you may want to get some 1/4 steel plate to place around sensitive areas to protect the other tenants in the apartment building. Be careful if ricochets though. Make sure you have body armor and eye protection. :tongueout:

You're it!:tongueout:

WoodenPlank
07-14-2010, 22:59
If that's the case I have my AK, M4 to choose from. My husband will provide cover. We are both prior service and he was infantry. He is training me to handle my shotguns, rifles etc...in the dark. I am sure that the perp will regret their decision to rob us...:whistling:

P.S you may want to get some 1/4 steel plate to place around sensitive areas to protect the other tenants in the apartment building. Be careful if ricochets though. Make sure you have body armor and eye protection. :tongueout:

You're it!:tongueout:

I was thinking kevlar fabric, actually. Hang it from the walls with a couple inches of foam padding behind it as a sound insulator. Ceiling is good to go, though, as there is almost 2 inches of concrete between me and the upstairs neighbor. :rofl:

annieO09
07-14-2010, 23:30
I was thinking kevlar fabric, actually. Hang it from the walls with a couple inches of foam padding behind it as a sound insulator. Ceiling is good to go, though, as there is almost 2 inches of concrete between me and the upstairs neighbor. :rofl:

As long as you have a plan! Now get that kevlar ASAP!!!:tongueout: