Series 70 vs series 80? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ctfireman
07-14-2010, 20:45
What's the difference? I searched but couldn't find an answer. I thought they were colt model numbers!!!

glock_19guy1983
07-14-2010, 20:52
Series 70 has a collet bushing and no firing pin safety. Series 80 is less desireable and has a firing pin safety

ctfireman
07-14-2010, 20:57
A 1911 with a firing pin safety? Hmmm........weird.

bac1023
07-14-2010, 21:04
A 1911 with a firing pin safety? Hmmm........weird.

Yeah, quite a few have them, not just Colt.

Sig, S&W, Para, and some others also use this design.

Kimber uses a totally different type of FP safety and is activated by the grip safety.

Jim Watson
07-14-2010, 21:24
S&W firing pin obstruction works off the grip safety.
Not the same linkage as the Kimber but not at all like the trigger actuated block of Colt, PO, SS, and Taurus.

While Series 70 is a Colt trademark, the Internet Evolution of the English Language has led it to be used to mean "lacking a firing pin block" in any brand. Ick.

bac1023
07-14-2010, 21:28
S&W firing pin obstruction works off the grip safety.


True. But the appearance and placement is very similar to the series 80 Colt design.

Smith did this because some people complained theat the series 80 design affected the feel of the trigger.

bac1023
07-14-2010, 21:29
While Series 70 is a Colt trademark, the Internet Evolution of the English Language has led it to be used to mean "lacking a firing pin block" in any brand. Ick.

Like I said before, Colt pioneered many things associated with the 1911. Its their design, but the reality is that its the widely accepted term that people use for any brand.

skipsan
07-14-2010, 21:33
The Colt fp safety used on the 80-Series has a mechanical link connected to to the trigger mechanism that requires that the trigger be pulled, before the firing pin is free to impact the primer. No action is required on the part of the shooter to activate the safety--just pull the trigger. The firearm cannot fire if dropped on the muzzle because the firing pin is mechanically locked in place. Theoretically, a Series 70 pistol dropped on its nose could fire due to the momentum of the fp overcoming the resistance of the fp return spring, and impacting the primer. California performs this drop test on all pistols sold in the state and the Series 70 is not approved, while the Series 80 is. Other manufacturers use different techniques to accomplish the same thing as the Series 80 mechanism without the accompnaying mechanical complications.

Purists argue that the linkage has a negative impact on the trigger-pull quality of the 80 Series. Whether it does or not, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure 95% or more of us shooters wouldn't know it was there provided it was functioning properly. Its presence does complicated diassembly as there are some small parts and springs that must be accomodated.

Glockdude1
07-14-2010, 21:33
Swartz safety system.
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3223/series80safetyzy9.jpg

The Kimber system.
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/SII_FPB.jpg

I am glad my Springfield does NOT have such a system.

:cool:

bac1023
07-14-2010, 21:37
Swartz safety system.
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3223/series80safetyzy9.jpg

The Kimber system.
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/SII_FPB.jpg





Actually, the top illustration is the Series 80.

The Swartz system is the bottom illustration that Kimber pretty much uses.

bac1023
07-14-2010, 21:38
I am glad my Springfield does NOT have such a system.

:cool:

Me too.

Springfield's crutch is that goofy lock they stick in their main spring housings. :tongueout:

That bothers me as much as the firing pin safeties, actually. :sigh:

Glockdude1
07-15-2010, 07:33
Me too.

Springfield's crutch is that goofy lock they stick in their main spring housings. :tongueout:

That bothers me as much as the firing pin safeties, actually. :sigh:

My Springfield does have the lock. I engaged it the first day I bought the pistol. I wanted to know if it worked. I have never used it since.

:cool:

Jim Watson
07-15-2010, 07:52
Just because different makes use the same system does not mean the parts are interchangeable. There have been some posts by Taurus owners who found that out. The groove in a Taurus' firing pin is not in the same location as a real Colt Series 80.

Another unfortunate departure from the basic design is the use of odd firing pins.
Several brands use .38 Super firing pins in .45 ACP, which makes sense if you are a manufacturer and want to reduce the number of different parts in inventory, but it can be a surprise to the customer.
Not to mention Springfield which uses an odd size not found in other makes of any caliber. (They have their own front sight tenon width, too.) There was a gunsmith who said nothing fit on a Springfield because it was "METRIC". Which does not make sense to me or my gunsmith who has put a lot of US inch parts in Springfield guns.

Jim Watson
07-15-2010, 08:01
True. But the appearance and placement is very similar to the series 80 Colt design.

Appearance is not everything. It won't work in buying replacement parts.

Smith did this because some people complained theat the series 80 design affected the feel of the trigger.

So did Kimber.

There is also the matter of patent rights. Other makers either had to use a different design or wait for the Colt Series 80 patent to expire, pay royalties, or risk infringement lawsuits. I think one maker went the last way and got away with it because the court case would have lasted longer than the remainder of patent coverage.

Like I said before, Colt pioneered many things associated with the 1911. Its their design, but the reality is that its the widely accepted term that people use for any brand.

Does that make Glock a Series 80? It has a firing pin block actuated by the trigger linkage.

bac1023
07-15-2010, 08:16
Does that make Glock a Series 80? It has a firing pin block actuated by the trigger linkage.

Good Lord Jim. :upeyes:

I'm not arguing the fact that it was a Colt design or a Colt patent. Believe me, whenever anyone says "series 80", I think of Colt right away, not any other company.

That's not going to change the fact that others now use the design or similarities of the design and are widely referred to and thought of as series 80 guns. I didn't start that.

Unfortunately, like it or not, I don't see the terminology changing. Hell, even magazine writers use the term "series 80" when talking about guns other than Colt and they write about 1911s for a living.

With all due respect, why is it such a big deal to you? Did you come up with the design? :dunno:

Its not going to change.







.

bac1023
07-15-2010, 08:18
My Springfield does have the lock. I engaged it the first day I bought the pistol. I wanted to know if it worked. I have never used it since.

:cool:

I don't use it either.

I just don't like extra safeties and/or locks on a gun that differ from the original design.

None of this stuff stops me from buying the above mentioned 1911s though. :)

Jim Watson
07-15-2010, 16:31
With all due respect, why is it such a big deal to you?

In the first place, I have elected to make it a big deal because of the common Internet Expert Tutorials we get about such jargon as clip vs magazine. I just get a kick out of ranting about less well known blunders.

In the second place, it can lead to confusion and malfunction. Like the guy with the "Series 80" Taurus who found that a Colt spec firing pin would not fit his knockoff.

Hokie1911
07-15-2010, 16:43
In the first place, I have elected to make it a big deal because of the common Internet Expert Tutorials we get about such jargon as clip vs magazine. I just get a kick out of ranting about less well known blunders.

In the second place, it can lead to confusion and malfunction. Like the guy with the "Series 80" Taurus who found that a Colt spec firing pin would not fit his knockoff.

Internet Expert Tutorials have taught me to carry Cocked & Unlocked with a full clip, and to move out of cover, stop...drop...roll, then fire. What's wrong with that? :dunno:

bac1023
07-15-2010, 16:48
In the first place, I have elected to make it a big deal because of the common Internet Expert Tutorials we get about such jargon as clip vs magazine. I just get a kick out of ranting about less well known blunders.

In the second place, it can lead to confusion and malfunction. Like the guy with the "Series 80" Taurus who found that a Colt spec firing pin would not fit his knockoff.

Gotcha :)

brzusa.1911
07-15-2010, 18:12
A 1911 with a firing pin safety? Hmmm........weird.

The fpb (series 80, Kimber's, S&W, ...) was introduced mainly by the production manufacturers to make guns easier to pass CA, MA...approved lists. Lots of people have no problems with it, I don't like it and don't want it on my guns. To the best of my knowledge none of the semi-custom (Les Baers, EB, Wilson, NH, ...) and the majority of the custom manufacturers choose to not to use them. Some people argue the reason some 1911 makers choose not to use them is for cutting costs, but I don't think that any of these makers selling these high end 1911s with a high price tag are interested in reducing costs by not installing a fpb, I do believe there must be a good reason these great gunsmiths choose not to use fbp

Jim Watson
07-15-2010, 18:51
If you want a full custom or homebuilt that is safer than safe, Caspian will add the Series 80 cuts to slide and receiver for a reasonable fee.

bac1023
07-15-2010, 20:04
If you want a full custom or homebuilt that is safer than safe, Caspian will add the Series 80 cuts to slide and receiver for a reasonable fee.

No thanks. :supergrin:

bac1023
07-15-2010, 20:06
The fpb (series 80, Kimber's, S&W, ...) was introduced mainly by the production manufacturers to make guns easier to pass CA, MA...approved lists. Lots of people have no problems with it, I don't like it and don't want it on my guns. To the best of my knowledge none of the semi-custom (Les Baers, EB, Wilson, NH, ...) and the majority of the custom manufacturers choose to not to use them. Some people argue the reason some 1911 makers choose not to use them is for cutting costs, but I don't think that any of these makers selling these high end 1911s with a high price tag are interested in reducing costs by not installing a fpb, I do believe there must be a good reason these great gunsmiths choose not to use fbp

The high end guns don't have them.

It irritates me that Smith doesn't eliminate the FP safety on their Performance Center 1911s. Springfield has enough sense to get rid of that goofy main spring housing lock on their custom guns.

People who spend that kind of money on 1911s don't want locks or firing pin safeties.







.

GlocksterPaulie
07-15-2010, 20:18
The FP safety should be for Hi Points and Lorcins only.

Paulie:supergrin:

bac1023
07-15-2010, 20:47
The FP safety should be for Hi Points and Lorcins only.

Paulie:supergrin:

:rofl:

Of course they don't fire even when you pull the trigger. :animlol:

brzusa.1911
07-15-2010, 21:20
Not to mention Springfield which uses an odd size not found in other makes of any caliber. (They have their own front sight tenon width, too.) There was a gunsmith who said nothing fit on a Springfield because it was "METRIC". Which does not make sense to me or my gunsmith who has put a lot of US inch parts in Springfield guns.

I believe the Springfields use the metric system, that is the official unit of measurement in Brazil. But wow, the gunsmith who said he couldn't fit parts on a Springfield because it uses the metric system should have someone tell him about units conversion. :faint:

Aquanewt
07-15-2010, 22:46
I use my 1911's for bullseye competition. I have two Colts and a Springfield that has been worked on by a smith who basically replaced all the Springfield's internals with Colt parts. None have the Series 80 parts as it is harder to get the trigger desired for Bullseye competition with the extra block.

pistolwrench
07-15-2010, 23:17
Both of my carry guns are Colts.....and guess what?
Both have active firing pin safeties.

Draw any conclusions you like.

:wavey:

engineer151515
07-15-2010, 23:22
Series 70 is the way to go.

A Gulf War buddy of mine found a real nice Series 70 at a local gunshow.

Great find.




<<< still looking.

bac1023
07-16-2010, 04:20
Series 70 is the way to go.



:agree:

Jim Watson
07-16-2010, 07:33
Both of my carry guns are Colts.....and guess what?
Both have active firing pin safeties.

Draw any conclusions you like.



I conclude that you are a gunsmith and if necessary can tinker with them until they work.

I think the factory has a good but not perfect record and that some of them NEED tinkering.

Hokie1911
07-16-2010, 07:52
I conclude that you are a gunsmith and if necessary can tinker with them until they work.

I think the factory has a good but not perfect record and that some of them NEED tinkering.

Ummmmm, yeah. He's just a gunsmith. :rofl:

brzusa.1911
07-16-2010, 09:16
I conclude that you are a gunsmith and if necessary can tinker with them until they work.

I think the factory has a good but not perfect record and that some of them NEED tinkering.

Ummmmm, yeah. He's just a gunsmith. :rofl:

I am pretty sure this is not what Jim Watson said, "[...]just a gunsmith[...]." pistolwrench, is a great gunsmith and most of us probably know that. And I did post previously that most of the custom gunsmiths make their guns without the fpb. I have to this date only seen one custom builder (Dave Lauck), with now the exception of pistolwrench, actually uses the fpb.

Jim Watson
07-16-2010, 09:24
I did not say "just a gunsmith".
I have the perception that pistolwrench is an established pro.
Kind of hard to pin it down since he does not sign his right name, though.
But his shop site is in his profile so we can see examples of his work.

Hokie1911
07-16-2010, 09:43
I am pretty sure this is not what Jim Watson said, "[...]just a gunsmith[...]." pistolwrench, is a great gunsmith and most of us probably know that. And I did post previously that most of the custom gunsmiths make their guns without the fpb. I have to this date only seen one custom builder (Dave Lauck), with now the exception of pistolwrench, actually uses the fpb.

I did not say "just a gunsmith".
I have the perception that pistolwrench is an established pro.
Kind of hard to pin it down since he does not sign his right name, though.
But his shop site is in his profile so we can see examples of his work.

That was sarcasm fellas. Relax. :whistling:

www.rogersprecision.com
www.louderthanwords.us

MD357
07-16-2010, 13:57
.
Kind of hard to pin it down since he does not sign his right name, though.
But his shop site is in his profile so we can see examples of his work.

So it was hard to pin down his name but easy to find his website that has his name in it? :cool:

ancient_serpent
07-16-2010, 14:22
I've got a Series 70, from 1976. Shoots great, very reliable.

bac1023
07-16-2010, 18:01
I've got a Series 70, from 1976. Shoots great, very reliable.

No doubt :)

GlocksterPaulie
07-16-2010, 20:35
Originally posted by bac, do we really need to use the rest of his user name.:supergrin:

Of course they don't fire even when you pull the trigger.

This reminds me of the Three Stooges, remember when someone held something in their hand and asked Moe if he would give them Five for it and he replied with will you take Two.

They could make a new version of that and the person could be holding a Hi Point or Lorcin and ask if someone will give them Five for it.

Paulie:tongueout:

bac1023
07-16-2010, 20:45
This reminds me of the Three Stooges, remember when someone held something in their hand and asked Moe if he would give them Five for it and he replied with will you take Two.

They could make a new version of that and the person could be holding a Hi Point or Lorcin and ask if someone will give them Five for it.

Paulie:tongueout:

:rofl:

tx787
07-16-2010, 22:32
How are some Wilsons CA approved, do those have FP safeties?

Jim Watson
07-17-2010, 09:45
Titanium firing pins, I think. Enough to get through the drop tests without superfluous parts.

bac1023
07-17-2010, 16:40
How are some Wilsons CA approved, do those have FP safeties?

I don't think so.

brzusa.1911
07-17-2010, 19:31
How are some Wilsons CA approved, do those have FP safeties?

The same gun that is approved to CA from Wilson, Les Baer, EB...is the same gun available to all other states. The thing is to have a gun approved to sell in CA costs a lot of money and the approval is for each gun/model/spec. All the guns Wilson sell will have the same firing pin (whatever it may be - titanium, 9mm, 38...) and a strong firing pin spring.

MD357
07-17-2010, 20:55
The same gun that is approved to CA from Wilson, Les Baer, EB...is the same gun available to all other states. The thing is to have a gun approved to sell in CA costs a lot of money and the approval is for each gun/model/spec. All the guns Wilson sell will have the same firing pin (whatever it may be - titanium, 9mm, 38...) and a strong firing pin spring.

The Wilson rep told me that only the CA compliant guns have Ti FPs.

ROGER4314
07-21-2010, 22:27
Series 70 has a collet bushing and no firing pin safety. Series 80 is less desirable and has a firing pin safety.

I have both models and with the pistols at the range, I can't tell a dimes worth of difference in the Series 70 and 80. I disassembled the Series 80 and had a bit of difficulty reassembling the firing pin safety until I pulled up a diagram online.

I've heard the Series 80's triggers were not as good as my Series 70's but I can't tell it. Don't believe everything you read. The Series 80 1911 is a splendid gun!

Flash