.380 just as good as .45 ACP! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Blaster
07-16-2010, 17:58
I was listening to a internet podcast on ammo. The commentator said that due to advances in modern ammunition that the .380 is just as effective as a 9mm in expansion and penetration.

Extrapolating further, many say the the 9mm is just as good as the .45 ACP, therefore the .380 must have the same stopping power as a .45 ACP.

I am starting to wonder if I can continue this comparison right on up to the .50 BMG.

Alchemy
07-16-2010, 18:02
:popcorn:

sjones
07-16-2010, 18:16
OH no,here we go again.:popcorn:

Pimp gun
07-16-2010, 19:03
Are you willing to bet your life on that info

Blaster
07-16-2010, 19:08
Are you willing to bet your life on that info

I carry a true .45 ACP not the speculated equivalent.

packinaglock
07-16-2010, 19:19
I can honestly say I would rather be shot with a 380 than a .45

drc767
07-16-2010, 19:28
I was listening to a internet podcast on ammo. The commentator said that due to advances in modern ammunition that the .380 is just as effective as a 9mm in expansion and penetration.

Extrapolating further, many say the the 9mm is just as good as the .45 ACP, therefore the .380 must have the same stopping power as a .45 ACP.

I am starting to wonder if I can continue this comparison right on up to the .50 BMG.

In a word...."NO"

481
07-16-2010, 20:57
Sounds like an interesting, although very extreme, transitive argument that could be permitted to progress in either direction.

Allow me to illustrate...

Due to advances in modern ammunition the .380 = 9mm = .357SIG = .40S&W = .45ACP in terms of expansion and penetration

and since these advances apply to all ammunition in the transitive sense, then it must progress in the reverse in order to preserve the established equality so that .22LR = .25ACP = .32 Auto = .30 Luger = .380

Ultimately, since both extreme ends of these equations are equal to one another, I can then say that .22LR = .45ACP and we should all be able to carry .22s assured that they will speak with authority equal to that of all the "larger" calibers.

And here I've been wasting my time putting up with the expense, bulk, weight and inconvenience of the centerfire service calibers! :supergrin:


:animlol:

Glolt20-91
07-16-2010, 21:24
Sounds like an interesting, although very extreme, transitive argument that could be permitted to progress in either direction.

Allow me to illustrate...

Due to advances in modern ammunition the .380 = 9mm = .357SIG = .40S&W = .45ACP in terms of expansion and penetration

and since these advances apply to all ammunition in the transitive sense, then it must progress in the reverse in order to preserve the established equality so that .22LR = .25ACP = .32 Auto = .30 Luger = .380

Ultimately, since both extreme ends of these equations are equal to one another, I can then say that .22LR = .45ACP and we should all be able to carry .22s assured that they will speak with authority equal to that of all the "larger" calibers.

And here I've been wasting my time putting up with the expense, bulk, weight and inconvenience of the centerfire service calibers! :supergrin:


:animlol:

And a Honda Civic will drop off a cliff just as fast as a Ferrari, but wait, if a blonde is driving the Ferrari, she'll have to ask directions to the bottom, therefore, the Civic is faster. :whistling:

Bob :cowboy:

481
07-16-2010, 21:32
And a Honda Civic will drop off a cliff just as fast as a Ferrari, but wait, if a blonde is driving the Ferrari, she'll have to ask directions to the bottom, therefore, the Civic is faster. :whistling:

Bob :cowboy:

And here I thought that I was good at "funny". I stand "trumped".

:rofl:

9mm +p+
07-16-2010, 21:54
That's great! I'll stick with my 45's and 357 mags thanks.

greenlion
07-16-2010, 22:57
All men are humans.
Angelina Jolie is a human.
Therefore, Angelina is a man.

It's called a Non Sequitur (does not follow) logical fallacy.

unit1069
07-16-2010, 23:14
I was listening to a internet podcast on ammo. The commentator said that due to advances in modern ammunition that the .380 is just as effective as a 9mm in expansion and penetration.


That's ludicrous. What police department or LEO agency carries .380ACP caliber duty pistols?

I'm not even sure the best JHP .380ACP ammo made reliably penetrates 12 inches when expanding as designed.

TKM
07-16-2010, 23:25
All men are humans.
Angelina Jolie is a human.
Therefore, Angelina is a man.

It's called Creepy, stop that.

Icky, icky, ick.

ComeAndGetThem
07-17-2010, 06:21
How is it that only the weaker calibers have benefited from these advances in metallurgy and ballistics? I believe that the 9MM cartridges of today are MUCH more capable than 9MM cartridges of 30 years ago and are perfectly adequate for self defense purposes. But haven't all cartridges benefited from ammunition advancements and the gaps between them remained relatively similar?

Njanear
07-17-2010, 09:16
That's ludicrous. What police department or LEO agency carries .380ACP caliber duty pistols?

I'm not even sure the best JHP .380ACP ammo made reliably penetrates 12 inches when expanding as designed.

But the LEO agency do have the option in purchasing the elusive G25s for department use, don't they? Based on this thread, there must be a real US market for them. :rofl:

mastrbloata
07-17-2010, 11:33
Yes, well, I'm surprised that you didn't know this already. Don't you feel silly now?

ldrichard
07-17-2010, 14:24
Someone on here has a tag line in their signature that says "A 9mm may expand but a
.45 will never shrink."

I guess we can assume that ''a .380 may expand but a 9mm will never shrink."

Use the largest caliber you can handle. Me, I use a .45.

Good advice for those who are undecided.

David_Ely
07-17-2010, 17:14
I guess we can assume that ''a .380 may expand but a 9mm will never shrink."


A .380 and a 9mm are already the same diameter just a different weight.

A .380 is also known as a 9mm Kurtz or 9x17mm.

MrVvrroomm
07-17-2010, 19:07
What about .45 GAP?

http://www.best-of-web.com/_images_300/Cartoon_Pot_Stirring_Itself_100402-151925-907042.jpg

David_Ely
07-17-2010, 19:15
What about .45 GAP?


What about it? It's a more case efficient 45 caliber round for autoloading pistols. (stirring fast)

Blaster
07-17-2010, 19:21
Ah yes the .45 GAP, the Holy Grail. Perhaps it is the circles I travel in but I have yet to find one spent GAP casing. Do they evaporate?

IndyGunFreak
07-17-2010, 19:22
I think in the right hands, it could be just as effective as the .45. A headshot w/ a .380, is likely going to do just as much damage as a head shot w/ a .45. It's all about placement.

That said, I consider .380 bare minimum for self defense. I prefer it more for a SHTF, backup gun. That being said, I sat on a jury on a murder trial in which the victim was incapacitated almost instantly by a .25. He was probably dead before he hit the ground...

PLACEMENT!

IGF

IndyGunFreak
07-17-2010, 19:23
Ah yes the .45 GAP, the Holy Grail. Perhaps it is the circles I travel in but I have yet to find one spent GAP casing. Do they evaporate?

:rofl::rofl:

They're at the end of the rainbow w/ the pot of gold..

David_Ely
07-17-2010, 19:24
Ah yes the .45 GAP, the Holy Grail. Perhaps it is the circles I travel in but I have yet to find one spent GAP casing. Do they evaporate?

No, they are collected and reloaded. :supergrin:

Blaster
07-17-2010, 20:54
I think in the right hands, it could be just as effective as the .45. A headshot w/ a .380, is likely going to do just as much damage as a head shot w/ a .45. It's all about placement.

That said, I consider .380 bare minimum for self defense. I prefer it more for a SHTF, backup gun. That being said, I sat on a jury on a murder trial in which the victim was incapacitated almost instantly by a .25. He was probably dead before he hit the ground...

PLACEMENT!

IGF

I am going to have to say that the .45 ACP should be more forgiving when it comes to shot placement in a head shot. Sure a .380 into an eye socket will get the job done. However when you consider oblique angles, skull thickness and the perversities of nature, I would rather be trying to "punch through" with as much mass as possible.

IndyGunFreak
07-17-2010, 21:01
I am going to have to say that the .45 ACP should be more forgiving when it comes to shot placement in a head shot. Sure a .380 into an eye socket will get the job done. However when you consider oblique angles, skull thickness and the perversities of nature, I would rather be trying to "punch through" with as much mass as possible.

There's been plenty of documented cases of .45's to the head, where suspects were still fighting w/ the police. Of course a .45 is going to have more penetration than a .380, but even the worst .380's, should penetrate the average human skull (around .25in)

In addition to placement, an enormous amount of luck is required, no matter what the caliber.