Colt, Kimber or Springer, what to get [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DukeNukem
07-18-2010, 14:11
Hey all. I'm considering getting myself a 1911 and I was looking around here and at the various mfr sites. Looked at Colt and was surprised to see they are now making a bigger selection of pistols. They even have the Delta Elite 10mm again. That said, they have a series called xse that looks like they're trying to be like Kimber and Springfield. Any opinions on the new colts? I guess I've always wanted a Kimber but it seems like their prices have gone up considerably from last time I looked. I'm not looking to spend the money for a custom. I want a full size model mostly for range and maybe some IDPA style shooting, not so much for carry.

mrsurfboard
07-18-2010, 14:36
Hey all. I'm considering getting myself a 1911 and I was looking around here and at the various mfr sites. Looked at Colt and was surprised to see they are now making a bigger selection of pistols. They even have the Delta Elite 10mm again. That said, they have a series called xse that looks like they're trying to be like Kimber and Springfield. Any opinions on the new colts? I guess I've always wanted a Kimber but it seems like their prices have gone up considerably from last time I looked. I'm not looking to spend the money for a custom. I want a full size model mostly for range and maybe some IDPA style shooting, not so much for carry.

The Kimber pro carry models (4in commander style) start around $888 MSRP. Not that outrageous for a good 1911. Springfields are a little cheaper if you are looking for a 5in model.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/compactprocarry/pro_carry_II/

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/custom/custom_II/

zhix
07-18-2010, 14:40
I am a sucker for Colts;have the delta elite and 1918 repro, one is unfired at the moment and the other I shoot rarely. It seems to me like all the colt models are in the same price range ($875ish). Kimbers I believe go up literally every year; I have an Ultra carry, but I will probably sell it off after getting a 4" Kimber. I have no experience with Springfields mainly because I don't like guns that say made in Brazil on them, though they are said to be great guns.

In my non-expert opinion a Kimber Custom II would be a good one for you to start with in the range of $700-$735. I say start with because you'll probably end up with several 1911s eventually.

jrs93accord
07-18-2010, 15:20
A Kimber Custom II is a great model to fill your needs. I recently bought this one (LNIB) for $620 shipped. The price tag that was in the case was marked $739.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2010/006-5.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2010/005-6.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2010/004.jpg

Hokie1911
07-18-2010, 15:49
What is your price range? I would look at the STI Spartan or the Kimber Custom2 that JRS mentioned in the $700ish range. Perhaps spend a few hundred more and get the STI Trojan. All great guns.

faawrenchbndr
07-18-2010, 15:59
The Kimber Custom II is a VERY good deal for the money!

DRAGON1970
07-18-2010, 15:59
Stay away from the Colts. After 20 years of competition I have yet to see a Colt shoot worth a darn. I have been refinishing Firearms for roughly 10 years and every Colt I have worked on is as loose and sloppy as an old lady's teeth.

ctfireman
07-18-2010, 16:26
As much as i wanna tell you not to spend extra money bc of a brand name, i do it myself. All 3 are nice. I tend to favor springfields but have always wanted a colt. Kimbers are nice too, just not as high up on my list.

brzusa.1911
07-18-2010, 17:04
It depends on many things, money you want to spend being the most important. For a first 1911 for carry, $1150 you can get a Dan Wesson Heritage which beats the others hands down on reliability out of the box. You can aslo get a Colt series 70 for a little less than that (that would be my choice). If you ate looking for something under $900 I would go with the Springfields. I personally stay away from Kimbers, never had experience with one but read a lot about them. Another thing to consider is that SA and Colt will give you lifetime warranty. I hear SA customer service is the best, so if you have a SA that is not running 100% out of the box they will make it right to you on ther dime.

mrsurfboard
07-18-2010, 17:19
It depends on many things, money you want to spend being the most important. For a first 1911 for carry, $1150 you can get a Dan Wesson Heritage which beats the others hands down on reliability out of the box. You can aslo get a Colt series 70 for a little less than that (that would be my choice). If you ate looking for something under $900 I would go with the Springfields. I personally stay away from Kimbers, never had experience with one but read a lot about them. Another thing to consider is that SA and Colt will give you lifetime warranty. I hear SA customer service is the best, so if you have a SA that is not running 100% out of the box they will make it right to you on ther dime.

For every negative thing I've read about Kimbers, I've read 5 others praising them. Don't pan a gun you don't own and/or have never fired.

Hokie1911
07-18-2010, 17:24
For every negative thing I've read about Kimbers, I've read 5 others praising them. Don't pan a gun you don't own and/or have never fired.

+1. I think we covered this in his "1911 snob" thread.

brzusa.1911
07-18-2010, 18:34
For every negative thing I've read about Kimbers, I've read 5 others praising them. Don't pan a gun you don't own and/or have never fired.

You are correct. I should've not said that! I tried to give the OP my personal opinion, but should've reworded a little better. The same bad reviews you would read from a Kimber, you would read from Colts and Springfields as well, but there will be more positive then negative for sure. I never shot a Kimber, have held many at gunshops and admit they feel great to carry, still I am a little reluctant about buying one, unless it is one of the new ProCarry series.

Hokie1911
07-18-2010, 18:40
You are correct. I should've not said that! I tried to give the OP my personal opinion, but should've reworded a little better. The same bad reviews you would read from a Kimber, you would read from Colts and Springfields as well, but there will be more positive then negative for sure. I never shot a Kimber, have held many at gunshops and admit they feel great to carry, still I am a little reluctant about buying one, unless it is one of the new ProCarry series.

Just know that between them, Bac and JRS have 100+ 1911s, from low-end to high dollar customs. Both of them could carry anything they want....both carry Kimber Pros.

brzusa.1911
07-18-2010, 18:52
Just know that between them, Bac and JRS have 100+ 1911s, from low-end to high dollar customs. Both of them could carry anything they want....both carry Kimber Pros.

I actually meant to say the new SuperCarry.

p.s. I know Bac carries the ProCarry, amongst all sorts of 1911s he currently owns. He does that because he likes the gun and trusts it's ability to protect him. Maybe I would change my mind if I got to shoot one. I am not a collector so I buy the ones that I like the best and fit the features I am looking for at a price I am willing to pay.

Just for the record, I am also not a big fan of Colts, especially the XSE ones (I owned one). But I would like to have a series 70 or a Delta Elite one day and send it off to a good gunsmith for some upgrades. My personal opinion today is that for the less than $1000 market the Springfields ate the way to go, last year I would've told you the Dan Wessons were.

bac1023
07-18-2010, 19:14
Hey all. I'm considering getting myself a 1911 and I was looking around here and at the various mfr sites. Looked at Colt and was surprised to see they are now making a bigger selection of pistols. They even have the Delta Elite 10mm again. That said, they have a series called xse that looks like they're trying to be like Kimber and Springfield. Any opinions on the new colts? I guess I've always wanted a Kimber but it seems like their prices have gone up considerably from last time I looked. I'm not looking to spend the money for a custom. I want a full size model mostly for range and maybe some IDPA style shooting, not so much for carry.

What's your exact price range?

Below $1000, I like Kimber the best out of the three.






.

Hokie1911
07-18-2010, 19:15
I actually meant to say the new SuperCarry.



I got a chance to fondle a new SuperCarry Pro last month. Felt pretty good in hand. Although, for the asking price of $1,299....I'd either pick up a CBOB for a little less (they are out there if you look hard enough) or I'd spend a few hundy more and get a Valor Bobtail.

bac1023
07-18-2010, 19:37
p.s. I know Bac carries the ProCarry, amongst all sorts of 1911s he currently owns.

I actually carry a Pro CDP :)

brzusa.1911
07-18-2010, 20:11
What's your exact price range?

Below $1000, I like Kimber the best out of the three.

.

Hey Bac, I am interested on your review of why? I know you have all the ones the OP is consedering and maybe you can give an insight comparison from your perspective. As I said, I never considered a Kimber, but I am always willing to learn and change my view.

brzusa.1911
07-18-2010, 20:14
I got a chance to fondle a new SuperCarry Pro last month. Felt pretty good in hand. Although, for the asking price of $1,299....I'd either pick up a CBOB for a little less (they are out there if you look hard enough) or I'd spend a few hundy more and get a Valor Bobtail.

I agree with you on the supercarry and cbob.

DukeNukem
07-18-2010, 20:16
I would like to stay under $1k. I've always had a thing for the Kimber 1911s. I keep looking on and off at them and usually end up getting something else for the money it takes to get one, but last time I looked it seems you could get a Kimber around 800 and now most of them seem to be up around 1100 or so. Last time I looked I wound up getting an AR instead. Now I'm going back and forth between the 1911, M1 or 44 mag revolver. I do see the Springfields and new Colts going more around the 800 dollar range for what I want. I know Springfield has a good name but the whole Made in Brazil kind of bums me out too.

I'm mostly looking at either a Custom 2 TLE package, Eclipse model, the National Match Loaded or the Colt Goldcup or XSE stainless.

bac1023
07-18-2010, 20:27
Hey Bac, I am interested on your review of why? I know you have all the ones the OP is consedering and maybe you can give an insight comparison from your perspective. As I said, I never considered a Kimber, but I am always willing to learn and change my view.

I just feel they're fitted and finish the best of the three below $1000. I'm not a huge fan of the Springfield Loaded or the Colt XSE.

The Kimber Custom II series is excellent, IMO.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_2542.jpg

OrangeDonkey
07-18-2010, 20:50
I just feel they're fitted and finish the best of the three below $1000. I'm not a huge fan of the Springfield Loaded or the Colt XSE.

The Kimber Custom II series is excellent, IMO.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_2542.jpg

If STI and S&W were also in the mix, how would you rank them? Just curious...

brisk21
07-18-2010, 21:01
Im gonna go ahead and vote for Springfield. As I do.

samuse
07-18-2010, 21:29
Stay away from the Colts. After 20 years of competition I have yet to see a Colt shoot worth a darn. I have been refinishing Firearms for roughly years and every Colt I have worked on is as loose and sloppy as an old lady's teeth.


You ever notice how 1911s are always malfunctioning at competitions? Maybe it's because everyone is shooting 1911s? With their own majic mix of dremel work, mags, springs and reloaded ammo? Through extremely high round count count guns? Me too.

I've seen people at matches who could tweak a Glock 17 or 21 into a jam-o-matic.

I have a couple of rattling Colts that are very reliable with Colt or Checkmate mags and 230 grain FMJ. I love 'em and I'm somewhat of a 1911 basher.

I do agree with Bac and the others who recommend the Kimber Custom II. I've been around a few of 'em and they are usually good looking guns that run good out of the box. I had one and it ran good with the factory mag, Colts, Checkmates ans Springfields. It had a few problems at around 1500 rounds, one was because of reassembling the gun improperly and damaging the FPS. It was removed. Problem solved.

I'd prefer a Colt, but the CustomII is decent pistol for the price.

ETA. Colts are loose and sloppy but they're tight where it matters, same goes for wimmen, loose teeth don't necessarily affect function of the critical parts!

DRAGON1970
07-18-2010, 22:06
You ever notice how 1911s are always malfunctioning at competitions? Maybe it's because everyone is shooting 1911s? With their own majic mix of dremel work, mags, springs and reloaded ammo? Through extremely high round count count guns? Me too.

I've seen people at matches who could tweak a Glock 17 or 21 into a jam-o-matic.

I have a couple of rattling Colts that are very reliable with Colt or Checkmate mags and 230 grain FMJ. I love 'em and I'm somewhat of a 1911 basher.

I do agree with Bac and the others who recommend the Kimber Custom II. I've been around a few of 'em and they are usually good looking guns that run good out of the box. I had one and it ran good with the factory mag, Colts, Checkmates ans Springfields. It had a few problems at around 1500 rounds, one was because of reassembling the gun improperly and damaging the FPS. It was removed. Problem solved.

I'd prefer a Colt, but the CustomII is decent pistol for the price.

ETA. Colts are loose and sloppy but they're tight where it matters, same goes for wimmen, loose teeth don't necessarily affect function of the critical parts!

I stand corrected regarding the teeth....well played my friend.

HAIL CAESAR
07-19-2010, 00:49
samuse,

Funny post, and very true from my experience.

In my experience, as much as I hate to admit it, I would recommend a Kimber TLE. It comes with NS and is ready to go out of the box. Shoot a couple hundred to test your gun and ammo and then have at it.

My main gripe with Kimber is the way too tight chambers. I would ream it out and would advise you to do so also you competition or carry.

Makoman
07-19-2010, 00:50
I have an XSE and can't say enough good things about it (except for maybe the front slide serrations which I really do not like). This gun is very accurate as has yet to malfunction. Colt has come a long way. I've owned 4 or 5 thru the years and have been very pleased save for one that was definitely a lemon.

That being said, I'd go with a Colt or a Springfield. Not a Kimber hater but I've seen quite a few out there with rust forming on the barrels while sitting in the display case (in every instance it's been on the Pro Carry II which is not a full size like what you're looking for, I haven't seen it on any others). Every maker will have their supporters and detractors. Whatever you buy, just make sure it's what you really want and like. Nothing worse than buyer's remorse.

zhix
07-19-2010, 08:04
A TLE II should be around $900 +tax , I wouldn't pay much over $925, unless it's stainless or has CT lasergrips or something.

38 Super Fan
07-19-2010, 10:20
It's a tough call, I've shot all three quite a bit and I actually like all of them. If the budget allows for a Colt or Kimber I'd probably go that route. I'm a Colt guy, but I have to admit my Kimber is a better made gun. Thats not to say that Colt is bad, I love them, but I'd give an edge in quality to Kimber. All three are reliable, and accurate, Colts tend to appreciate in value more. I suppose its really what YOU like that matters, Good luck with whatever you go with, I think they are all fine choices.

GunFighter45ACP
07-19-2010, 10:28
I like Kimbers for carry (seem to be generally lighter in weight than their competitors). Springfields for the range, field, or competition build ups. (seem to be heavier in weight than their competitors) I like Colts for the name & the 'must have' in a collection. (seem to hold/increase their value better than their competitors) All three have had both good & bad products/issues within their product lines, & I can say that all that I've owned have had zero issues.

That said, if this is for range use, I'd look at a Springer, but do yourself the favor of also considering an STI Spartan. If you're gonna carry, or end up carrying this 1911 as well, then just go for the Kimber. If this will be an occasional shooter that doesn't get alot of use, but you'll hold on to it for years & keep it in great condition, etc then get the Colt.

Darkangel1846
07-19-2010, 10:33
If you don't know what you want then start with a springfield...you can always customize it as you go along.
I have a Llama, Norinco, Para Ord LDA, Kimber......they all shoot well at 25 yards. Now the Kimber is the most accurate.

CA_DUDE
07-19-2010, 16:16
I've had had 2 Colts, 2 Kimbers, and 1 Springfield. All good guns, but I agree with others that the Custom II is the nicest in the price range. It has great features that improve shootability a bit. It is definitely the nicest machined of the three. I think it is a great starting point for a new 1911 owner, and a solid no frills heavy use gun.

Ian-NH
07-20-2010, 07:15
Another vote here for the Custom II. Tough to find a comparable 1911 for the same money. Here's mine.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb218/iannersesian/IMG_0418.jpg

samuse
07-20-2010, 07:25
A good thing about the CustomII (or any Kimber) is that you don't need a spacer to get rid of the firing pin safety.

I keep the series 80 stuff in a Colt because I think it's a well thought out system that works well. And, I've seen more problems with worn out spacers in Colts than I have seen problems with the original parts.

Springfield turns me off with their ILS, non-standard springs and 38super firing pin.

Colt series 70 is my favorite.

Ian-NH
07-20-2010, 07:53
A good thing about the CustomII (or any Kimber) is that you don't need a spacer to get rid of the firing pin safety.


Can you break this down for me a little? I can see from the rest of your post it has something to do with Series 70/80 issues. All of the Kimber II's are Series 80 right?

I have had a few 1911's but never learned enough to involve myself in the Series 70/80 debate. I don't know what's good or bad about either really.

samuse
07-20-2010, 11:33
No Kimber is series 80. They use a different setup that works off of the grip safety. You have to remove the rear sight to get to the stuff in the slide, but it does not require any part to run the gun with the firing pin safety parts removed.

Rinspeed
07-20-2010, 12:10
No Kimber is series 80. You have to remove the rear sight to get to the stuff in the slide,



Have fun doing that with a Kimber.

DukeNukem
07-20-2010, 21:49
I don't really understand all the intricacies of the differences or functionality in the safety systems of the different guns. I've seen the diagrams here posted in other threads. I guess it doesn't much matter if I'm buying new. Sounds like the consensus is Kimber, which is what I've always liked. I want to get a new colt in my hands if I can somewhere around here though. I'll make sure to let you all know what I pick up, thanks for the responses.

Walkin' Boss
07-20-2010, 21:59
Springfield turns me off with their ILS, non-standard springs and 38super firing pin.

I have to agree about the ILS...that's why it was the first thing to go on my Champion. Replaced the housing with a take off from a Colt. But other than that, a Springfield is a very reasonably priced and very reliable weapon.

I'm a Colt fan for the most part (use a Defender as my primary carry). To the OP I'd say, shoot a few, find what is in your price range and suited to your intended purpose. But also realize, there's no such thing as owning just one 1911...:supergrin: