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Hubadub
07-18-2010, 15:33
This has probably been covered and recovered but I need informed information.I recently bought a Glock 36 and the gun shop owner threw in a box of 165 grain Powerball +P as a kicker.I have been told that Powerball isn`t all that great so my question is this.What is the best self defense ammunition for a .45?Your input is greatly appreciated.

JBP55
07-18-2010, 15:40
Gold Dot, Ranger T, PDX1, HST are very good.

UnTainted
07-18-2010, 16:06
I like rounds with barnes bullets, but I don't yet own a 45. If I did, that's what I'd feed it

YogiBearFan
07-18-2010, 16:15
I have a line on a decent amount of Hornady 45acp 230gr +P with the XTP bullet.
(TAP-FPD)

I am thinking of picking up a few boxes, but, before I do, I'd like to know if folks have heard/reported back good or bad results with it.

glock2740
07-18-2010, 16:31
I use mostly 200+P Gold Dot, but also use the 185gr and 230gr Gold Dots too.

drc767
07-18-2010, 16:31
230g Speer Gold Dot "Short Barrel" is what I would use in a G36. Proven design that works and is fairly easy to aquire.

fredj338
07-18-2010, 16:50
The GoldDots are pretty much what everyone else tries to beat. HST, RangerT, RGS, HornadyXTP, 185gr-230gr, all are good, non +P for me in the small light guns. If you want more vel for expansion, drop a bullet wt. A 165gr anything in the 45acp is just too light IMO. They great thing about the 45acp, just about any 185gr-230gr JHP will work fine.

DRT
07-18-2010, 18:05
Let's see....230gr +P HST or Ranger Tseries.

HWA GLOCKER
07-18-2010, 22:14
230gr HST's

f150man
07-20-2010, 20:44
I've used everything from 185gr JHP to 230gr JHP in std and +P loads, plus I carried 230gr ball ammo for years while in the military and never felt like I needed anything better.

ctfireman
07-20-2010, 21:06
After watching a bunch of ammo test vids, i use pdx1.

chewybaca67
07-20-2010, 23:11
Most 45 ACP hollow points will do the job very well. Some more expensive than others, but most, not all will work fine. Right now I like 230 grain Gold dots and Golden Sabers.
Hell, even Hiydra Shoks work good in 45 ACP.

Glock26z
07-20-2010, 23:27
I have a RIA .45 compact and I use the Hornady Critical Defense 230 grain in my RIA and my 625-8 S&W revolver. Glock26z, use to be known as 17z on forum. This Hornady round I use in my .45 RIA works like ball ammo and it is almost shaped like that also. Glock26z

fredj338
07-21-2010, 11:25
I have a RIA .45 compact and I use the Hornady Critical Defense 230 grain in my RIA and my 625-8 S&W revolver. Glock26z, use to be known as 17z on forum. This Hornady round I use in my .45 RIA works like ball ammo and it is almost shaped like that also. Glock26z
WHen did Hornady start makiing 230grCD? I thought they only made it in 185gr?

CanyonMan
07-21-2010, 16:17
WHen did Hornady start makiing 230grCD? I thought they only made it in 185gr?


Howdy fred !

They (hornady) do NOT make a 45acp 230gr CD. They DO make a 45acp 185gr CD. Perhaps he made a typo. ;)


Hope all is well with you amigo !




CM

fredj338
07-21-2010, 18:01
Howdy fred !

They (hornady) do NOT make a 45acp 230gr CD. They DO make a 45acp 185gr CD. Perhaps he made a typo. ;)


Hope all is well with you amigo !


CM
I'm good CM, I could complain, but wouldn't do me any good.:rofl: I would actuall give a 230grCD a try, but I don't think they make em.:dunno:

CanyonMan
07-22-2010, 07:35
I'm good CM, I could complain, but wouldn't do me any good.:rofl: I would actuall give a 230grCD a try, but I don't think they make em.:dunno:

Yep, your sure right about the complaining ! Tried it, and it don't help a bit. :faint:

Correct on the Hornady stuff. As I said, they do NOT make the CD in 230gr, only in 185gr.


One day at a time amigo ! ;)




CM

BuckyP
07-22-2010, 08:12
It seems Gold Dots, SXTs, and HSTs are all very good options. The HSTs are very impressive, but were near impossible to find when I was shopping so I bought SXTs.

CanyonMan
07-22-2010, 09:35
No secrect around here for me. But I do still prefer my 230gr ball in 45acp But I have come to the place after a very long time, to add two more to the list, and now I am done ! The 230gr Hornady TAP FPD and the Winchester PDX1 which is second after the ball ammo, and may even move to first, :whistling: but I doubt it. :supergrin:

Quick Cell phone pics:


Left to right: 45acp 230gr ball. 45acp 230gr PDX1 (center). 45acp 230gr Hornady XTP TAP FPD.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0722001012a.jpg

L-R: 230gr PDX1, 230gr Ball, 230gr XTP TAP FPD
http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0722001020.jpg

L-R; 230gr PDX1, 230gr Ball, 230gr XTP TAP FPD

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0722001022.jpg




Good shooting.



CanyonMan

dreis454
07-22-2010, 09:47
Which of the 2 hollowpoints is your favorite & why CM?

CanyonMan
07-22-2010, 10:51
Well, this is a fine line call, and may not be a very good answer to your question. Although the XTP is a very good penetrator, the PDX1 has it beat in this department. The PDX1 is a 'bonded bullet,' which as you know is going to stay together better through barriers of different kinds, and we can all face things we may never have expected out in the real world so fo me penetration must hold a very high place in my SD ammo or I am not interested. The 14"-18" penetration depth has always been my personal standard for a SD hand gun round, and it seems that some who have done scientific studies in ballistics feel the same way.

The PDX1 certainly meet the very minimum of 14" and still in most cases seems to have more than that to offer. Some one says, "well I would rather stick with FBI protocol.." Fine ! This s the round the FBI chose as there carry round, The PDX1.

I do not have any real revelational answer for you here. My answer is limited to "sage wisdom," and horse sense, plus a good many years of testing bullets (not this one) in all kinds of situations. Bob, on the "Furniture Penetration thread" here on CC has tested this PDX1 in 45acp and although in his test it did not open, it did get tremendous penetration.
At first I did not like them, but after more investigation et et, I have truly changed my mind.

I know the excitment these days seems to be in the HST camp. I would not put them in my gun . They are rapid expanders and not designed for penetration. 10'' - 12" is about the best for this bullet design, and if my butt is in a sling, and I need a bullet to go through an arm or some other media and get to the torso and then still to the vitals, I want one that has been tested in "more than jello, and went through heck and back, and shows me it still gets a minimum of 14" penetration, and 18" would be even better. The PDX1, it seems, has this reputation.

So, being a guy who loves 230gr ball, I am very drawn to the 230gr PDX1 and carry it in my G36 for confidence in this short barreled gun for maximum penetration as possible from a JHP. In my M1911 EDC 45acp, it is still ball for now and maybe the PDX1 after I do my own penetration test through alot of different media. Been laid up a while, so I'll get to it when I can and let everyone know wht happens !

Other than that, it is Ball ammo for me still.

Confused yet ? :supergrin:

Amigo, it is what I described above, and just down right personal preference. If I had to grab a mag on the table I at this point in 45acp, "for me" I would grab the Ball first, the PDX1 second, and the XTP TAP next. That being said, IMO any and all of these are more than excellent to go bet your life on ammo.

Probably not a very cool answer, but it is all I got. I am so convinced at this point, i can assure you, that after about 35/40 years of ball, I have bought these other two, PDX1, & XTP TAP FPD, and am now "settled in." I have complete confidence in all three, just prefer the bonded in first place over the XTP, and it is still a toss up between the PDX1 VS. Ball. :wavey: No real biggie. Their all three good IMO.

Outside these three, 'for me', I am not interested in the least. Tested to long and seen to much to be swayed off what I do believe/ and know, works. ;)


Stay Safe !




CanyonMan

dreis454
07-22-2010, 11:37
Actually,your answer is just what I was looking for. I have collected MANY rounds of Gold Dot,RangerT,PDX1 & TAP XTP FPD in 230grain.

I was torn on which to put in my 36 & carry but I think I'm gonna use the Rabger T to function check for the PDX1s since they have the same profile & I have 1000s of them(Ranger Ts) to use up.

Once again your advice is well taken,CM.

Thanks Amigo! (I love saying that)

CanyonMan
07-22-2010, 11:43
Actually,your answer is just what I was looking for. I have collected MANY rounds of Gold Dot,RangerT,PDX1 & TAP XTP FPD in 230grain.

I was torn on which to put in my 36 & carry but I think I'm gonna use the Rabger T to function check for the PDX1s since they have the same profile & I have 1000s of them(Ranger Ts) to use up.

Once again your advice is well taken,CM.

Thanks Amigo! (I love saying that)


Well, glad your a happy camper ! Don't know what I said, but as long as your satisfied ! :cool:

Your plan sounds like wisdom to me. I carry EDC a M1911, but bought the G36 a few months ago and love that little sucker. Dang nice little gun, eats everything and i do mean everything. And it's a 45 ! :supergrin:


Your welcome Amigo ! HA.


Good luck to ya, and stay safe !



CanyonMan

Centurion6
07-23-2010, 09:31
I carry Speer 230 gr Gold Dots in my Glock 36. Have never had a feeding or ejection problem with them either.

Jim S.
07-23-2010, 12:34
Corbon 185g +P DPX.
My 36 picked it for me. :)

Iceman cHucK
07-24-2010, 17:28
Well, this is a fine line call, and may not be a very good answer to your question. Although the XTP is a very good penetrator, the PDX1 has it beat in this department. The PDX1 is a 'bonded bullet,' which as you know is going to stay together better through barriers of different kinds, and we can all face things we may never have expected out in the real world so fo me penetration must hold a very high place in my SD ammo or I am not interested. The 14"-18" penetration depth has always been my personal standard for a SD hand gun round, and it seems that some who have done scientific studies in ballistics feel the same way.

The PDX1 certainly meet the very minimum of 14" and still in most cases seems to have more than that to offer. Some one says, "well I would rather stick with FBI protocol.." Fine ! This s the round the FBI chose as there carry round, The PDX1.

I do not have any real revelational answer for you here. My answer is limited to "sage wisdom," and horse sense, plus a good many years of testing bullets (not this one) in all kinds of situations. Bob, on the "Furniture Penetration thread" here on CC has tested this PDX1 in 45acp and although in his test it did not open, it did get tremendous penetration.
At first I did not like them, but after more investigation et et, I have truly changed my mind.

I know the excitment these days seems to be in the HST camp. I would not put them in my gun . They are rapid expanders and not designed for penetration. 10'' - 12" is about the best for this bullet design, and if my butt is in a sling, and I need a bullet to go through an arm or some other media and get to the torso and then still to the vitals, I want one that has been tested in "more than jello, and went through heck and back, and shows me it still gets a minimum of 14" penetration, and 18" would be even better. The PDX1, it seems, has this reputation.

So, being a guy who loves 230gr ball, I am very drawn to the 230gr PDX1 and carry it in my G36 for confidence in this short barreled gun for maximum penetration as possible from a JHP. In my M1911 EDC 45acp, it is still ball for now and maybe the PDX1 after I do my own penetration test through alot of different media. Been laid up a while, so I'll get to it when I can and let everyone know wht happens !

Other than that, it is Ball ammo for me still.

Confused yet ? :supergrin:

Amigo, it is what I described above, and just down right personal preference. If I had to grab a mag on the table I at this point in 45acp, "for me" I would grab the Ball first, the PDX1 second, and the XTP TAP next. That being said, IMO any and all of these are more than excellent to go bet your life on ammo.

Probably not a very cool answer, but it is all I got. I am so convinced at this point, i can assure you, that after about 35/40 years of ball, I have bought these other two, PDX1, & XTP TAP FPD, and am now "settled in." I have complete confidence in all three, just prefer the bonded in first place over the XTP, and it is still a toss up between the PDX1 VS. Ball. :wavey: No real biggie. Their all three good IMO.

Outside these three, 'for me', I am not interested in the least. Tested to long and seen to much to be swayed off what I do believe/ and know, works. ;)


Stay Safe !




CanyonMan

I am in the exact same camp as CM. I use ball in all my 45's that are the least bit finiky feeding. In all the others it's either Hornady TAP 230jhp+P or WW PDX1 for all the same reasons that CM has stated. Reliability and penetration are my most important considerations.

OldArcher
07-24-2010, 19:13
CanyonMan,

Great analysis! I'm curious as to what brand of 230gr hardball you use. I've always been a fan of Federal, but am willing to go with others. I've always bought WWB in that weight, UMC, and green/white Remingtons, but those I've kept for range and plinking.

For my G21, I've got the Federals in my three 17rd Arredondo mags, the 13rd mags have PDX1s, and my 10rd mags have Magtech First Defense SCHP for my G30. I may have to retire the Magtechs, after reading your responses, though... I was trying to utilize higher velocity/lighter bullets out of the shorter barrel, to approximate same performance of lower velocity/heavier bullets. So much for that theory, huh?

Which would you use in a G30? 230gr hardball, or PDX1?

Thanks in advance for your input.

OldArcher, out...

Iceman cHucK
07-25-2010, 10:01
For 230 hardball I have used Federal American Eagle for many years, and never had a quality problem and it is what I recommend to those who ask me. It consistently chrono's around mid 800's in fps, depending of course on barrel length, with low S.D. and E.S. I have also tried and chrono'd S&B and it is my second choice. I do not buy WW whitebox as I have heard of many quality issues (overlength of SAMMI specs).

CanyonMan
07-25-2010, 12:20
CanyonMan,

Great analysis! I'm curious as to what brand of 230gr hardball you use. I've always been a fan of Federal, but am willing to go with others. I've always bought WWB in that weight, UMC, and green/white Remingtons, but those I've kept for range and plinking.

For my G21, I've got the Federals in my three 17rd Arredondo mags, the 13rd mags have PDX1s, and my 10rd mags have Magtech First Defense SCHP for my G30. I may have to retire the Magtechs, after reading your responses, though... I was trying to utilize higher velocity/lighter bullets out of the shorter barrel, to approximate same performance of lower velocity/heavier bullets. So much for that theory, huh?

Which would you use in a G30? 230gr hardball, or PDX1?

Thanks in advance for your input.

OldArcher, out...


Well, honestly, i have never had a mis-fire or problem of any kind ever, from WWB or CCI Brass. I use the Latter in 230gr ball out of the 3" to 5". The 45 acp is not real barrel length sencitive. The numbers are not much different from 3-5" and the damage caused with a "good hit" cannot be discerned from one barrel length to another,

In M1911 EDC it has always been forever, for me, 230ball. I used the WWB for a long time or Remington UMC (seemed more accurate) then stumbled into the CCI Brass brand, and it was very accurate for me out of the M1911, G30, G36, et.et. All my 45's loved this round in the accuracy department. Again, I have NEVER in all these loooong years ever once had a problem of any nature with these mentioned here.

Now, I do reoad, and carry my own reloads, BUT, if and when I do carry "factory stuff" it is the CCI Brass, then the Rem UMC, then the WWB all 230gr.

I cannot understand owning a 45acp and NOT carrying 230gr ammo in it.
Like owning a Porshe and never going over 50mph ! :dunno:

Now to the JHP's. I do very much believe in (through various testing results) the Hornady XTP 230gr TAP FPD, and the Winchester 230gr PDX1.

I do now use in the G36 230gr ball or Winchester 230 PDX1. Same in the G30, and I keep the 230gr ball n my M1911, because that's the way it has always been. HA !

NOTE***** I do NOT use ball because my guns won't function with out it. If I own a gun taht will not feed everything made, I will fix it. If it can't be fixed (and everything can), I would get rid of it.

I Use the 230ball because it bust through bone and everything else like a sledge hammer on a cinder block. The Winchester PDX1 is a bonded 230gr bullet that holds together well, and gets great penetration (i demand 14"to18") and perform very well. I cannot stress enough penetration in a man's SD caliber.


I am not a fan at all of lighter bullets than 230gr in a 45acp. If a man wants to gain velocity, then he needs to change to another caliber. The lumbering 230gr 45acp at 800 to 900fps does tremendous damage, from 3" to 5" barrel. It does not need to be on steroids to do it, any more than the 45LC in a ruger hog leg needs nitro loads to kill Elk.

I am NOT a fan of so called "short barrel ammo.' See NO benefit there. More marketing ploy.

For human SD purposes, the 45acp 230gr at 800/900fps in a FMJ or a JHP known for extreme penetration like the PDX1, or the XTP, are rounds to go out the door and in the streets of hades with and have complete confidence. IMO of course ! ;) I've shot the 45 way to long and seen way to much and tested in way to many different types of media to be swayed other wise. It is not a magic bullet or caliber. But it is a bone breaking plow through penetrating caliber in 230gr with the right bullet, that will get things done.

So, the bullet choices for me (above) are locked in and there is NO quest to seek another "for me." I am NOT a fan of lighter bullets, and not a fan of rapid expanding bullets.

I am a fan of very hard hitting heavy deep penetrating 230gr ball and PDX1, and the XTP.


Hope this novel helps ! Ha!


Stay safe amigo !



CanyonMan

OldArcher
07-25-2010, 18:43
Hi CanyonMan!

Since reading your latest post, I've changed out all of my JHP loaded mags- yes, even the PDX1's... Now I've only got 230gr hardball loaded in all of my mags. Hence forth, these, and their alternate round PDX1's, will be my "warshots." Back in the old days, we had practice and warshots, the latter being our SHTF ammo, not practice/inert, but loaded for bear.

FINALLY, I've got THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER, for .45acp ammo.

Thank-you, Sir. I've long agonized over this, as you seldom, if ever, get a second chance in combat. I've enjoyed your posts, and respect your opinion. I'll be using the Magtech 165gr SCHP for trade goods, when the SreallyH'sTF...

May you and yours always be safe, well, happy, and forever, free...

OldArcher, truly grateful, out...

CanyonMan
07-26-2010, 07:49
Hi CanyonMan!

Since reading your latest post, I've changed out all of my JHP loaded mags- yes, even the PDX1's... Now I've only got 230gr hardball loaded in all of my mags. Hence forth, these, and their alternate round PDX1's, will be my "warshots." Back in the old days, we had practice and warshots, the latter being our SHTF ammo, not practice/inert, but loaded for bear.

FINALLY, I've got THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER, for .45acp ammo.

Thank-you, Sir. I've long agonized over this, as you seldom, if ever, get a second chance in combat. I've enjoyed your posts, and respect your opinion. I'll be using the Magtech 165gr SCHP for trade goods, when the SreallyH'sTF...

May you and yours always be safe, well, happy, and forever, free...

OldArcher, truly grateful, out...



Whoa mule ! haha. I am glad your excited and all, I truly am, but I did not rule out the use of JHP's in the 45acp. I do like, as i said, the PDX1 in 230gr VERY much, and the XTP 230gr TAP FPD is a really great round as well.

*****NOTE For the record, "for me," these are the ONLY two JHP's I would carry in 45acp. This is me. I get some PM's and other things from folks, so to let ya know, I carry 230gr ball most the time. BUT, I do also carry the PDX1 in 230gr next in line, and maybe after all these years will move to first place, but I doubt it. And the 230gr XTP's are great penetrators as well. Beyond these, 'for me." amigo's, I draw the line. That is it, 'for me' as for ammo for the 45acp.

I am just what I was called on another thread, "an old dinosaur" who don't know much ! :supergrin:


Don't throw out the baby with the wash. haha . I am known around here for the use of 230gr ball in the 45acp, BUT, I do also carry the 230gr PDX1 and the 230gr XTP. Again, IMO their all three good. The ball is proven for almost a century, but the PDX1 and XTP in 230gr are very good choices as well. Don't want to mislead you in any way against the use of these two fine JHP's for the 45acp. Just saying that Ball and these two JHP's would be 'all' I would consider in this caliber, 'for me.'

As I said (some where), "I doubt it, but I may trade out my 230gr ball for the 230gr PDX 1 'maybe' down the line". We will see. :whistling: :supergrin: ha !


Anyway amigo, glad your on the trail towards getting something settled. ;)



Bless you and your family as well amigo. :wavey:


CM

fredj338
07-26-2010, 12:59
Don't throw out the baby with the wash. haha . I am known around here for the use of 230gr ball in the 45acp, BUT, I do also carry the 230gr PDX1 and the 230gr XTP. Again, IMO their all good. The ball is proven for almost a century, but the PDX1 and XTP in 230gr are very good choices as well. Don't want to mislead you in any way against the use of these two fine JHP's for the 45acp. Just saying that Ball and these two JHP's would be 'all' I would consider in this caliber, 'for me.'

CM
You are correct CM. While I would choose the 45acp first if all I could carry was ball, if you can carry a reliable JHP, why not? The XTP & all the bonded JHP wrok great at 45acp vel. I like the 230grRGSB for 230gr loads. I ahve no qualms carrying the 200grXTP in my smaller guns. It digs very deep because expansion is minimal, but it does expand, 65cal or so:wavey:

CanyonMan
07-26-2010, 13:53
You are correct CM. While I would choose the 45acp first if all I could carry was ball, if you can carry a reliable JHP, why not? The XTP & all the bonded JHP wrok great at 45acp vel. I like the 230grRGSB for 230gr loads. I ahve no qualms carrying the 200grXTP in my smaller guns. It digs very deep because expansion is minimal, but it does expand, 65cal or so:wavey:


You mean you like 45acp fred ! :shocked: HA !
Man I think the 45acp lovers are finally begining to grow like weeds on a cowpie around here. (excuse the illustration amigo's) Ha !

Like I told OldArcher

"I do still love my 230gr ball ammo in my 45's" , :supergrin: But fred, I have also seen that the 230gr PDX1 and the 230gr XTP are very wise loads for the 45acp boy's. ;)


Fixin to come a storm here like ooh weee, got to go right fast tend to something.


Adios for a little while here amigo !

Stay safe fred ! ;)



CM

G36shooter
07-28-2010, 12:26
Am I the only one loading the 36 with Rem. Golden Saber 230gr?

dreis454
07-28-2010, 12:37
Am I the only one loading the 36 with Rem. Golden Saber 230gr?

maybe...the GS doesn't impress me in any caliber.

fredj338
07-28-2010, 13:09
Am I the only one loading the 36 with Rem. Golden Saber 230gr?

I tried the 230grRGS in my OM. It doesn't quite get to 800fps but still shows decent expansion in denim covered wetpack. I prefer a bit more vel in the shorter bbl guns but shy away from the +P stuff.

Glock21sf-miami
07-28-2010, 13:31
Federal 230 gr +P HSTs in my G36, G30 and G21.
I also have come Double Tap 230 gr. Bonded Defense rounds as extra ammo...