What a RIPP-OFF (357 SIG) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mickdundie
07-21-2010, 15:54
Why is 357SIG $32/50 rounds FMJ? What a RIPP-OFF!!!

I think I will buy a reloading machine if it will pay for itself.

Is it hard to re-load 357SIG w/the bottleneck case?

What will the powder and bullet cost to re-load vs store bought ammo (if I save my brass)

$32/50=$.64/round (not including tax) SHESH@#$%^&*()

Thanks

Mick:thumbsup:

2afreedom
07-21-2010, 16:06
I don't reload so i can't answer your cost question. I will tell you that many .357 pistols can be converted to .40 S&W with only a new barrel. .40 is a lot more common and much less expensive.

chemcmndr
07-21-2010, 17:00
I reload .357 Sig. Using 10.5 grains of AA #7 and 124 grain Hornady XTP's I can make my own for about $10.57 a box of 50. The only downside to reloading with the bottleneck is that you have to keep a closer eye on case length and lubricating the cases before resizing. You can get around the lubrication if you use a .40 S&W die before sizing the neck.

mickdundie
07-21-2010, 17:12
I don't reload so i can't answer your cost question. I will tell you that many .357 pistols can be converted to .40 S&W with only a new barrel. .40 is a lot more common and much less expensive.

Actually, I bought a G27 because I have never seen a G33 in any of my local gun shops. Then I got the conversion barrel to 357SIG...I'm just saying 357SIG ammo is a RIPP-OFF!

Thanks

Mick:thumbsup:

mickdundie
07-21-2010, 17:13
I reload .357 Sig. Using 10.5 grains of AA #7 and 124 grain Hornady XTP's I can make my own for about $10.57 a box of 50. The only downside to reloading with the bottleneck is that you have to keep a closer eye on case length and lubricating the cases before resizing. You can get around the lubrication if you use a .40 S&W die before sizing the neck.

Sounds good.

Where is the cheapest place to get quality reloading equipment?

Thanks

Mick:thumbsup:

aujrb
07-21-2010, 17:29
Why is 357SIG $32/50 rounds FMJ? What a RIPP-OFF!!!

I think I will buy a reloading machine if it will pay for itself.

Is it hard to re-load 357SIG w/the bottleneck case?

What will the powder and bullet cost to re-load vs store bought ammo (if I save my brass)

$32/50=$.64/round (not including tax) SHESH@#$%^&*()

Thanks

Mick:thumbsup:




You can find it on-line much cheaper.

I've been looking at getting some fmj from Georgia Arms when I get my Sig barrel for my G23.

fredj338
07-21-2010, 17:58
I reload .357 Sig. Using 10.5 grains of AA #7 and 124 grain Hornady XTP's I can make my own for about $10.57 a box of 50. The only downside to reloading with the bottleneck is that you have to keep a closer eye on case length and lubricating the cases before resizing. You can get around the lubrication if you use a .40 S&W die before sizing the neck.

If yo ubuy the pricey Dillon carbide dies or use a 40s&w carbide sizer, you can eliminate the case lube. It cost me just a bit more to reload 357sig than it does 9mm. Depending on what performance level you want, you can load it w/ lead bullets & 7gr of Unique for 1200fps & good accuracy for about $5/50, plated @ 1300fps for about $6.50 & jacketed to 1400fps for $7.5/50. The biggest issue is getting the correct dies (not RCBS IMO) & setting them up properly to headspace on the small shoulder (read The ABCs of Reloading for headspace definition). Then bullet selection is crucial. You can not just use any 9mm bullet, but a truncated cone style flat point or hollow point. Great round. If you are looking for cheaper factory ammo, try GeorgiaArms. They make a quality product at reasonable cost.

1 old 0311
07-21-2010, 18:31
Gee a new caliber, limited popularity, and ammo is high? Now WHAT are the odds of that?:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

BlutoBlutarsky
07-21-2010, 18:47
If yo ubuy the pricey Dillon carbide dies or use a 40s&w carbide sizer, you can eliminate the case lube. It cost me just a bit more to reload 357sig than it does 9mm. Depending on what performance level you want, you can load it w/ lead bullets & 7gr of Unique for 1200fps & good accuracy for about $5/50, plated @ 1300fps for about $6.50 & jacketed to 1400fps for $7.5/50. The biggest issue is getting the correct dies (not RCBS IMO) & setting them up properly to headspace on the small shoulder (read The ABCs of Reloading for headspace definition). Then bullet selection is crucial. You can not just use any 9mm bullet, but a truncated cone style flat point or hollow point. Great round. If you are looking for cheaper factory ammo, try GeorgiaArms. They make a quality product at reasonable cost.

FredJ nailed it. I have a ton of 9mm stuff on my shelf. The dies and brass are all I'm waiting on to start rolling the 357sig. My plan is to use Montana gold to practice and XTP's for real.

mickdundie
07-21-2010, 19:45
Gee a new caliber, limited popularity, and ammo is high? Now WHAT are the odds of that?:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

357SIG a new caliber...OK

It's over 16 Years Old...when is it not new any more?

If it was a car in 5 years and some change it would be an antique!:supergrin:

Mick

mickdundie
07-21-2010, 19:49
You can find it on-line much cheaper.

I've been looking at getting some fmj from Georgia Arms when I get my Sig barrel for my G23.

Thanks guys...that is a good price $16/50 rounds

Mick:thumbsup:

chemcmndr
07-21-2010, 20:37
Yeah, I can reload 125 gr. Speer Gold Dots for about $14 a box of 50, so that's still not a bad price either. I just use a Lee turret press and Lee dies for reloading .357 Sig. I have yet to find just a .40 S&W carbide die for a reasonable price, otherwise I would be looking heavily into going the lube-less route for reloading. That way I could use my turret in progressive mode for .357 Sig.

1 old 0311
07-21-2010, 20:48
357SIG a new caliber...OK

It's over 16 Years Old...when is it not new any more?

If it was a car in 5 years and some change it would be an antique!:supergrin:

Mick


Well the .45, 9 mm, and .38 are 100 years old. The .40 is like 30 years old and still up there a bit in price. There is always a price to be the one to say "Hy look guys at what I have."

mickdundie
07-23-2010, 18:18
Well the .45, 9 mm, and .38 are 100 years old. The .40 is like 30 years old and still up there a bit in price. There is always a price to be the one to say "Hy look guys at what I have."

Good thing I don't have any friends to brag to. That would really cost me!

Mick

PersonOfInterest
07-24-2010, 02:19
Well the .45, 9 mm, and .38 are 100 years old. The .40 is like 30 years old and still up there a bit in price. There is always a price to be the one to say "Hy look guys at what I have."
.40 is more like 18 or 20 years old, as others are saying buy in bulk - i bought about 1k of Speer Lawman cheap along with some other factory loads then after i had enough brass to get started i began reloading, it is slightly tricky at first - biggest problem for me was getting the right projectiles aside from that once you get your sizing right (dont push the shoulder down too far) youll be fine.
I load with molycoats and push them to about 1300fps and also load the 125gn Gold Dot for hunting at 1380fps.
I managed to get my hands on about 1500 Lawman rounds for $20 a box a while ago so im mostly using my reloads with the odd box of factories.
If your new to reloading i suggest you dont start with the 357sig.

IndyGunFreak
07-24-2010, 06:51
.40 is more like 18 or 20 years old, as others are saying buy in bulk - i bought about 1k of Speer Lawman cheap along with some other factory loads then after i had enough brass to get started i began reloading, it is slightly tricky at first - biggest problem for me was getting the right projectiles aside from that once you get your sizing right (dont push the shoulder down too far) youll be fine.
I load with molycoats and push them to about 1300fps and also load the 125gn Gold Dot for hunting at 1380fps.
I managed to get my hands on about 1500 Lawman rounds for $20 a box a while ago so im mostly using my reloads with the odd box of factories.
If your new to reloading i suggest you dont start with the 357sig.

Comparing the .40's age, to the .357sig's age... is not an accurate way to look at this. The .40 was introduced, it quickly became the "wonder cartridge".. and LE quickly began to adopt it.... Even at around 12-15yrs old, it was probably the most carried cartridge by LE and CCW'ers. More demand, means more bulk buys on components, savings from buying in bulk is passed on down the line.

.357sig, has not enjoyed near the level of success that the .40 has. A .357sig Glock is the only gun I've sold that I had zero regrets about, and was happy to see it go.

The .357sig, for the foreseeable future, will be a round like the 10mm. Those who know it's capabilities, will buy it. Those who buy it, and just buy it because someone told them to, will end up frustrated and selling it.

IGF

mickdundie
07-24-2010, 18:58
Comparing the .40's age, to the .357sig's age... is not an accurate way to look at this. The .40 was introduced, it quickly became the "wonder cartridge".. and LE quickly began to adopt it.... Even at around 12-15yrs old, it was probably the most carried cartridge by LE and CCW'ers. More demand, means more bulk buys on components, savings from buying in bulk is passed on down the line.

.357sig, has not enjoyed near the level of success that the .40 has. A .357sig Glock is the only gun I've sold that I had zero regrets about, and was happy to see it go.

The .357sig, for the foreseeable future, will be a round like the 10mm. Those who know it's capabilities, will buy it. Those who buy it, and just buy it because someone told them to, will end up frustrated and selling it.

IGF

So which category are you in?

I bought a G27 (40S&W) and bought the conversion barrel for the 'capabilities' (as you put it) of the 357SIG...I'm not sorry...I LOVE IT!!!

I just hate the price of ammo...It's a rip-off PERIOD

Mick:thumbsup:

IndyGunFreak
07-24-2010, 19:57
So which category are you in?

I bought a G27 (40S&W) and bought the conversion barrel for the 'capabilities' (as you put it) of the 357SIG...I'm not sorry...I LOVE IT!!!

I just hate the price of ammo...It's a rip-off PERIOD

Mick:thumbsup:

Definitely the latter, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I had the gun for a little over 2yrs, and I'd bet 80% of that time, I was offering it for sale. It just doesn't do anything that a 9-45 won't do.

I probably didn't shoot more than 500rds through it. The loss I took on it was worth it, just to get it out of my hair.

I also sold 10mm FWIW, and I miss it.

The ammo isn't really a ripoff, it's just not high on demand, thus making it more expensive for ammo manufacturers to spend time setting their machines for a run of it.

unit1069
07-24-2010, 20:05
I just did a quick check of ammunitiontogo.com.

The price of Winchester T JHP for .357sig and .45ACP are the same.

Fiocchi XTP, the same.

I don't like the current price of most ammo, but if .357sig is a rip-off the same must be said of .45ACP.

freakshow10mm
07-24-2010, 20:59
Ammo has risen in price due to demand, recently that demand went "bye-bye". Last few months prices have been lowering back to "normal". Some companies don't get it. Others do.

For my ammo per 1,000 rounds:

380 $231
9mm supersonic $155
9mm subsonic $170
357 SIG $200
40 $195
45 $236

Those are case prices.

For loading the SIG, cry once and get the carbide die from Dillon.

PghJim
07-25-2010, 00:09
Definitely the latter, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I had the gun for a little over 2yrs, and I'd bet 80% of that time, I was offering it for sale. It just doesn't do anything that a 9-45 won't do.

I probably didn't shoot more than 500rds through it. The loss I took on it was worth it, just to get it out of my hair.

You do not like the 357 sig, that's fine, but why do you people always feels you have demean it in some way to justify your choice. I have been shooting 357 sig for well over 12 years, and I do not feel any need to be critical of a 9, 40 or 45. If you believe it will not do anything 9-45 will do then I understand your choice, which is based in ignorance. To say that a 125gr. bullet traveling over 1,500fps will not do anything a 9-45 will do has not observed the comparative effects. Since you admit that you were not in your first category of, "people who know its capabilities", I think I understand.

mickdundie
07-25-2010, 05:53
You do not like the 357 sig, that's fine, but why do you people always feels you have demean it in some way to justify your choice. I have been shooting 357 sig for well over 12 years, and I do not feel any need to be critical of a 9, 40 or 45. If you believe it will not do anything 9-45 will do then I understand your choice, which is based in ignorance. To say that a 125gr. bullet traveling over 1,500fps will not do anything a 9-45 will do has not observed the comparative effects. Since you admit that you were not in your first category of, "people who know its capabilities", I think I understand.

CALIBER WAR:50cal:

357SIG DOES have that little 'RAPID ENERGY TRANSFER' thing going for it. Which means, when they set up the ballistic gelatin, then shot it with 357SIG, it shattered the wood frame holding the gelatin:wow: The only OTHER pistol round that did that was the 10mm

It definitely is not comparable to 9mm or 45ACP in that regard

Mick:thumbsup:

mickdundie
07-25-2010, 05:55
Ammo has risen in price due to demand, recently that demand went "bye-bye". Last few months prices have been lowering back to "normal". Some companies don't get it. Others do.

For my ammo per 1,000 rounds:

380 $231
9mm supersonic $155
9mm subsonic $170
357 SIG $200
40 $195
45 $236

Those are case prices.

For loading the SIG, cry once and get the carbide die from Dillon.

Ok

So they are ALL A RIP-OFF:supergrin:

Mick:thumbsup:

IndyGunFreak
07-25-2010, 08:38
You do not like the 357 sig, that's fine, but why do you people always feels you have demean it in some way to justify your choice. I have been shooting 357 sig for well over 12 years, and I do not feel any need to be critical of a 9, 40 or 45. If you believe it will not do anything 9-45 will do then I understand your choice, which is based in ignorance. To say that a 125gr. bullet traveling over 1,500fps will not do anything a 9-45 will do has not observed the comparative effects. Since you admit that you were not in your first category of, "people who know its capabilities", I think I understand.

I didn't demean it at all, if he wants to carry it, I could care less. When I bought it, I did not understand its capabilities, I readily admit that. As time went on, I understood them, and it's not that much better than the 9-45.. certainly not worth the extra cost.

Locally, when I could find ammo, it was expensive. A .357sig w/ proper shot placement, is not going to do anything spectacularly better than a 9-45.. Speed is only part of the equation.

If it was so awesome, LE agencies would be stampeding to adopt it, similar to how they reacted to the 40 when it first came out...

IGF

glock031
07-25-2010, 11:03
My 2c 357sig prices seem to be lowering lately. There are two factory fmj brands out there right now available for $19.99 per 50...privi partisan and finocchi. Rem umc is high at $25 and winchester even higher at $27. The prices on 40sw are getting high though......The state troopers here in del carry 357sig.

glock031
07-25-2010, 11:11
O forgot to mention that you can buy 357sig ranger t's jhp for $22.99 per 50 at a certain website right now also. That is a very good price. Heck it's cheaper then rem/win fmj.........

Black Ice
07-25-2010, 12:07
So which category are you in?

I bought a G27 (40S&W) and bought the conversion barrel for the 'capabilities' (as you put it) of the 357SIG...I'm not sorry...I LOVE IT!!!

I just hate the price of ammo...It's a rip-off PERIOD

Mick:thumbsup:

.............................." I LOVE IT" !!!.............................

..:smoking:..
........ And you will love it a lot more if you start reloading for it. If you are like me you won't be saving any money, you will just be shooting alot more.:supergrin:
When I decided to start reloading I got a Dillion 550 and and Dillion dies for all the caliber's that I load. IMO the best equipment out there! Get the die's set up for the 357 sig. and they are a piece of cake to reload. Mild to Wild! :laughabove:

Colorado4Wheel
07-25-2010, 12:42
O forgot to mention that you can buy 357sig ranger t's jhp for $22.99 per 50 at a certain website right now also. That is a very good price. Heck it's cheaper then rem/win fmj.........

WOW, $23 per 50 is a good price?

9mm is abou $110/1K with someone buying bullets and primers in bulk.

I sure hope you have something cheaper to shoot so you guys can practice. Any factory ammo is too expensive for me.

mickdundie
07-25-2010, 12:54
.............................." I LOVE IT" !!!.............................

..:smoking:..
........ And you will love it a lot more if you start reloading for it. If you are like me you won't be saving any money, you will just be shooting alot more.:supergrin:
When I decided to start reloading I got a Dillion 550 and and Dillion dies for all the caliber's that I load. IMO the best equipment out there! Get the die's set up for the 357 sig. and they are a piece of cake to reload. Mild to Wild! :laughabove:

This is 1000% true MY FRIEND. 1000%:wavey:

mickdundie
07-25-2010, 12:56
My 2c 357sig prices seem to be lowering lately. There are two factory fmj brands out there right now available for $19.99 per 50...privi partisan and finocchi. Rem umc is high at $25 and winchester even higher at $27. The prices on 40sw are getting high though......The state troopers here in del carry 357sig.

Ya, the Fiocchi is OK but I have read really bad reviews on the Privi-Junk

Thanks

Mick

PghJim
07-25-2010, 13:29
I really do not reload for SD carry practice, I just bought a G19 set up the same as my G32 and practice with 9mm, which are very cheap. I do reload for specialty purposes and you could reload for practice, but I cannot beat the 9mm prices when you factor in my time.

PghJim
07-25-2010, 13:45
If it was so awesome, LE agencies would be stampeding to adopt it, similar to how they reacted to the 40 when it first came out...

IGF

Being awesome and popular are unrelated. The 10mm properly loaded is awesome, but not popular. The 40 is a good round and I would not feel undergunned with it. After playing with the 357 Sig for so long, I just believe it suits my needs better. A numer of agencies and departments use it and few have given up on it. Winchester is working on a new round for the USSS now.

Also, Obama was popular, and he sure is not awesome.

Black Ice
07-25-2010, 14:12
...:smoking:..

I find that reloading along with shooting is a very fun and relaxing hobby, I am glad I have the time to do it. I also load for the 9mm and the .40 SW But not too much any more. The 40 costs more than the 9 to load, and I can load the 357 sig. for the same price as the 9mm, So all my energy go's to the 357 sig. :supergrin:

IndyGunFreak
07-25-2010, 15:59
Also, Obama was popular, and he sure is not awesome.

That's actually a good comparison. Everyone clamored for Obama when he was running for office. Now about 18mo later, go over to DU, and read what the whacko left thinks of him. There's almost as many posts there from folks who are unhappy with Obama, as there are here. Only difference is, they get banned there.

IGF

fredj338
07-25-2010, 18:39
That's actually a good comparison. Everyone clamored for Obama when he was running for office. Now about 18mo later, go over to DU, and read what the whacko left thinks of him. There's almost as many posts there from folks who are unhappy with Obama, as there are here. Only difference is, they get banned there.

IGF
:arg:Not everyone. I tried warning off my left leaning Rep & Libertarian freinds that wanted MF change. Well, we certainly got MF change didn't we? Libertarians need to learn to pick a side. Walking down the middle of the road means you get run over on both sides.:tongueout:

IndyGunFreak
07-25-2010, 19:22
:arg:Not everyone. I tried warning off my left leaning Rep & Libertarian freinds that wanted MF change. Well, we certainly got MF change didn't we? Libertarians need to learn to pick a side. Walking down the middle of the road means you get run over on both sides.:tongueout:

Hey, I didn't vote for him either was just pointing out how peoples opinions change...

:)

IGF

mickdundie
07-25-2010, 19:57
Being awesome and popular are unrelated. The 10mm properly loaded is awesome, but not popular. The 40 is a good round and I would not feel undergunned with it. After playing with the 357 Sig for so long, I just believe it suits my needs better. A numer of agencies and departments use it and few have given up on it. Winchester is working on a new round for the USSS now.

Also, Obama was popular, and he sure is not awesome.

Come on now...STOP MAKING SENSE!!!

Mick:thumbsup:

glock031
07-25-2010, 20:28
Ya, the Fiocchi is OK but I have read really bad reviews on the Privi-Junk

Thanks

Mick , I read those same reveiws about "hard primers" with privi. I recently shot 250 rounds of it without a single problem. Does have excessive flash though. Don't know maybe those guys were using a lighter striker spring. I'd buy more if thats all that was availble. Your right about finocchi, good stuff IMO. Anyways i think the op did get ripped off paying $32 per 50 fmj.....

glock031
07-25-2010, 20:32
WOW, $23 per 50 is a good price?

Yup $22.99 for winchester ranger talons per 50 357sig is a very good price. 40sw rt's cost ya more.......

Gunnut 45/454
07-25-2010, 22:06
Gee unless you guy are paying $.20 per bullet how are you reloading for $10-15 per 50?
Buy bulk bullets and you be paying no more then $.05 per! I found 500 124gr GS for $71
thats $.07 per ! So if you have your old brass buy them 500 bullets and reload yourself you should be paying only $6 per 50! If your pay more then that you should get your supplies from a different source!:whistling:

fredj338
07-25-2010, 22:26
Gee unless you guy are paying $.20 per bullet how are you reloading for $10-15 per 50?
Buy bulk bullets and you be paying no more then $.05 per! I found 500 124gr GS for $71
thats $.07 per ! So if you have your old brass buy them 500 bullets and reload yourself you should be paying only $6 per 50! If your pay more then that you should get your supplies from a different source!:whistling:
I know you can do math, you're a 45 guy. That is 14.2c per, not 7c.:whistling: You are hard pressed to find even lead bullets for less than 6c each, plated about 8c, jacketed, depends on mauf. PD has the cheapest, but they don't have a bullet for the 357sig. MG or Zero probably the cheapest, about 8c bought in bulk.