.410 for self defense. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Teecher45
07-24-2010, 22:33
All right guys I know before we even get started that the answer is that the wife needs more range time but for now...
My oldest son (10) has a NEF single shot that is 3" and full choke 28" barrell. It is the one weapon my wife is comfortable loading, shooting, unloading etc. With that being said what is the best load available for her? I have been looking at the Hornady rounds, both the one that has the 4 pellets and the one that combines 3 disks and buckshot (thinking that one in Winchester). I read that the 3 disks were .38 caliber so would they be okay in a full choke barrell? Am I missing anything else?

janice6
07-24-2010, 23:11
Don't know if this helps but.....My son bought a Judge Pistol and ran a bunch of loads to see what works and how well.

He likes .410, 00 and 000 buckshot in 3" magnum. bird shot for "birds". I shot it and I couldn't believe how "softly" it shot a 45 long Colt. Felt like a 1911.

Jeepnik
07-24-2010, 23:21
The .410 slugs are have pretty good terminal ballistics. On people sized targets, they'd be pretty darned effective. But a single shot is pretty slow for subsequent shots. Mosberg makes makes their model 500 in .410. I've an old one that was my first. It's now my Jeep gun. It would work pretty well for someone wanting an easy to handle firearm.

Teecher45
07-25-2010, 08:30
Ive always been told you cannot shoot slugs through a full choke, not true?

Jeepnik
07-25-2010, 12:12
Ive always been told you cannot shoot slugs through a full choke, not true?

Not true. Look at the older Foster type, The little "vanes" which some folks will tell you impart spin, but really don't are designed to swage down as the slug passes through the choked portion of the barrel. Breneke (sp) makes sabboted slugs, but not sure if they make them in .410 that have a plastic "shoe" surrounding the slug which either compresses or slips off (I've heard both but don't know which if either is correct) as the slug passes through the choke.

Suggestion though, let her try a 20 ga. My wife is very small of stature and finds most shotguns ungainly and punishing. On a lark, she tried my 20 ga Franchi. Now it's a long recoil action and I think a bit on the more punishing side for a twenty. She handles the recoil, but the butt stock was too long. I picked up a youth stock, and she's very happy. With an old modified barrel cut back to 19" and left cylinder bore, it's "her" house gun.

samuse
07-25-2010, 20:34
I saw a video of Clint Smith running a single shot breakover. Your wife might be on to somethin':supergrin:

usurp31
07-25-2010, 20:38
I agree with the above; even if you stay with .410 get a good pump action for more round capability. Let her try the 20ga (if she hasn't already) and I bet she will like it.

Gunnut 45/454
07-25-2010, 21:29
I'd step up to atleast a 20 ga, and forget the pump go semi auto! Load it with #1 buck ,with an imp cylinder choke! A single in anything less then a 12 ga is a club! Atleast with a single 12 ga you got a chance at a one shot stop!!!:supergrin:

Teecher45
07-25-2010, 22:01
I'm in the middle of trying to save every penny I can for a 6920 I have on layaway. Not looking to go out and spend money on another gun. Maybe would be a good Christmas present. We live on a range and we spend some time shooting hand thrown clay targets. She shoots pretty well. But most importantly she can shoot, eject, reload, and reshoot that gun with her eyes closed. So... Let's just say, at least for the time being, she is going to continue to have the NEF .410 beside the bed whenever I'm gone. What round gives her the best chance of surviving a home invasion?

method
07-26-2010, 17:12
Just load it up with buckshot, it'll do fine. Get as many loads as you can find and see what the gun likes best. Figure out a good way for her to keep spare ammo at the ready, like a wrist band, or between the fingers, and have her practice reloads.

mitchshrader
07-26-2010, 17:55
I have bought my younger daughter a .410 (pump) which she loves. I've ratholed ammo at the ratio of 50% #4's & #6's, 25% Buckshot (5 #00) and 25% factory slugs.

Either the buck or slugs works out to approximately .38+P energy, and equally, approximately the same range (inside 20 yards). Call it 250-300 ft lbs..

Now I'll tell you the straight skinny.. sell something and get her a SD gun, if it's a 20 year old Rossi service model with a 4" barrel (or a police trade in from J&G sales) ..

some .38's and an old service revolver (S&W preferred) with a 4" barrel covers a multitude of nightstands.. and many's the friendly GT'er has one somewhere, need it or not.

There is TOO something you can sell. Get creatively desperate. Your wife means enough to invest a few hundred bucks. If you HAD to, you could. You want to be the guy saying 'If only I'd' ... ? I bet not..

CanyonMan
07-26-2010, 17:59
I'm in the middle of trying to save every penny I can for a 6920 I have on layaway. Not looking to go out and spend money on another gun. Maybe would be a good Christmas present. We live on a range and we spend some time shooting hand thrown clay targets. She shoots pretty well. But most importantly she can shoot, eject, reload, and reshoot that gun with her eyes closed. So... Let's just say, at least for the time being, she is going to continue to have the NEF .410 beside the bed whenever I'm gone. What round gives her the best chance of surviving a home invasion?


My post may sound hard. That is NOT my intent. But the plain truth as I see it here is this. Glad you wife can load and fire at warp speed and hit her targets. That is great and I'm sure your proud of her. But that is not the same as trying to defend herself home alone against one or maybe two very determined attackers bent on bad business and under major stress and perhaps in the dark with a single shot .410.

My suggestion is this. Since you are obviously very concerned about your wife's saftey and life. Why not forget about your own wants for a while on the 6910 lay a way, and use that money to get your wife a proper home SD weapon of some type, wether it is a SG or a HG. I would not leave my (very small petie wife) wife home alone with that set up for the world. Since you live on a firing range if you drop your desires for now, and spend the money on her and get a 20/12 ga pump or a handgun at least in 9mm, or a revolver even in 38 +P at the least, she should be able to handle that without a problem, rather than trying to make the "single shot" .410 into something it is not.

Beside our bed for my 5' 4" wife is a 12ga Remington 870 express magnum pump with 00 buck out the gate first, and then a slug, and then 00 buck again. Also with in reach is a M1911 cocked and locked 45acp with 230gr rounds in it. In the front room where only she and I know it's whereabouts, is a Ruger 357mag with full house 125gr JHP's. She is very very petie, but the first gun she fired was a 44mag. (living here you learn or else) :supergrin:

Now, anyone with a small ammount of training (and access to a range) can easily be taught to fire these weapons. Shouldering the SG ? Usually no time for it. Teach her how to allow the stock of the SG from just behind the trigger guard on back to the butt plate lay flat beside her right hip (if right handed) and allow the gun when fired to act as an hydralic.

Also, very simply place a "Limb Saver" recoil pad on it, (I am VERY SERIOUS HERE) and your worries are forever out the window. This $30.00 pad will allow my Remington 7mm Rem mag to be comfortably fired by almost any woman that can walk and has normal strength. This will wash away all concerns of a 12ga pump. Again, even a 9mm handgun, or a 6 shot 38 would be better than a single shot .410.

This may not be the kinda answer you want to hear sir, but I would not leave my wife home alone with such a gun, and living on a range where things certainly could happen, and trying to 'jerry rig' something to be what it is not.

I'm sure she means everything in the world to ya, so why not dump your ideas and wants, and treat her to the best protection possible. Hey you can always get your toy down the line man ! ;)


Good luck




CanyonMan

usurp31
07-26-2010, 18:21
continue to have the NEF .410

My suggestion is similar to the above; sell the NEF to fund a nice used pump action in 20 gauge. New ones aren't that expensive either if you shop around. Don't leave her hanging with a single shot out of an already poor self defense load. Best of luck to you.

Teecher45
07-26-2010, 19:21
I don't believe someone could be too harsh about something this serious, I welcome all help. I will not, can not, get rid of the NEF. The boy's grandfather gave it to them. Okay brass tacks... She has a snubnose .38 but it stays in her car. I could trust her to remember to bring it in everynight and hope she does. We also have a flashlight and .357 above the fridge but if she is in bed both doors are between her and the fridge. She could try to remember to take it to bed but the one night she forgets... She wants me to teach her to shoot the AR. But it won't be loaded because of having 3 boys in the house. What would be best spend the time with her on the AR, buying her a pistol, or what about a double barrell 20 gauge? Have a used one at local gun shop... Any better ideas?

usurp31
07-26-2010, 19:39
Of those options of the guns you already own; I would go with the .357 and make sure it is right next to her where ever she happens to be.

CanyonMan
07-26-2010, 19:53
It is never harsh to tell the truth bud. If she has these other options, then for God sake let her use them !


No one is after you ! Just trying to help ya hoss. ;)

Good luck !


CM

vafish
07-26-2010, 20:04
Others are giving you good advice, but I'll answer your original question.

Assuming that the .410 is her only option for self defense, I'd load it with Winchesters 3" magnum OOO buckshot load. 5 .36" pellets of OOO buckshot at 1135 fps can't be good for ones health.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=170759

http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Medium/170759.jpg

I had a buddy that used an old Mossberg bolt action .410 with that load for deer hunting when he was in shotgun only areas. He killed lots of deer with that gun.

method
07-26-2010, 23:09
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Winchester%203%20inch%205%20pellet%20buck.html

Here's what the Winchester load above does in gelatin. Think of it as a cylinder full of .38's with one trigger pull, but with better penetration. Way easier to hit with than any revolver. With a little practice, follow up shots obviously won't be as fast as a repeater, but they won't be glacial either. It's not like it's a muzzleloader.

HAMMERHEAD
07-27-2010, 08:17
I've shot the Brenneke slugs through my NEF .410, and just about everything else, no problem.
I would go with the Brenneke slug for home defense. The buckshot loads would be OK too, but I would go with the hottest slug I could find (in .410 bore, that's not over kill).
I think describing the buckshot loads as a cylinder full of .38's is a little optimistic. There's no expansion with the buck, and the pellets are very light weight.
Still, it's an intimidating load.

Teecher45
07-27-2010, 14:46
First I want to thank you for all of your help. Hammerhead, just curious, is yours a full choke? Well she and I have discussed this topic at length. She has decided she wants to learn the AR (she has shot one of my friends),so we will put in the range time to where I am comfortable with her operating it. So let's switch gears, what is the best magazine / ammo combo for HD. It will be a Colt 6920 (16", 1 in 7 twist). I will teach her clearing drills but... Always Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Also what is the best mount for a Surefire G-2 light for it. She will be packing the .38 in her purse from the car to inside the house...