180grn. Blue Dot load ? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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chippy
07-24-2010, 23:19
Just looking for some input. I have been working up 180grn loads. Montana Gold fmj bullets, WLP primer, PMC and Win. cases. I worked all the way up to 11.4 grns of BlueDot with no excessive pressure signs, only the slightest primer smearing(firing pin), which seems to be present with all loads. The D.Taps I tried show alot more pressure(smileys and bellys). I think 11grns does what I want to do, but even this is above all published load data I have found! Ultimately this load will be used for hunting deer and black bear (possibly with a 180XTP). Any Thoughts?

jeffreybehr
07-25-2010, 01:51
uhh...ya...
1. Be REALLY careful with your over-max loads.
2. I'd be trying 200g. XTPs if I were hunting bear of any kind and XTP155s if I were hunting deer.
3. I'd use Accurate #9 for powder. Accurate lists 13.5g. and 1242FPS with the XTP180 and 12.5g. and 1170FPS with the XTP200. Low muzzleflash too. http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1245600

Good luck. I sure love my 20SF Big 10.

chippy
07-25-2010, 06:44
Jeffrey, it's not quite as dumb as it sounds. I have been using this same lot of BD for 7 years in .38/.357, and .40sw. In other words, I am familliar with the pressure curve of this particular batch. I am new to the 10mm though. I like the 180grn bullets because that is what I use for .40sw and already have them on hand. The 200grn XTP does look good, but of course means starting over again, and working up loads is a REAL slow process. I am very particular about my brass, and am showing NO signs of high pressure at this point. I just don't feel comfortable with over max loads in an auto pistol ! (not at all in a BlackHawk) I want the "Top-End" performance of a true 10mm load, but I want to be safe as well.

AA#9 looks real good. Low flash is something you don't get with BD. Does it burn as complete(clean)? I'm down to less than a pound of that Bluedot. Maybe it's time for "CHANGE"....:shocked:


Luv my 20sf Big 10 too!

jeffreybehr
07-25-2010, 11:50
Jeffrey, it's not quite as dumb as it sounds.

AA#9 looks real good. Low flash is something you don't get with BD. Does it burn as complete(clean)? I'm down to less than a pound of that Bluedot. Maybe it's time for "CHANGE".

To be technical, I didn't call it dumb, I just said to be careful. :embarassed:

The 10 is new to me too, and after researching 357SIG loads this year, I found that there's no such thing as one maximum charge for one powder--the maximums vary sometimes widely. I'm currently easing into maximum territory a PD load using A9 and the XTP155, so I know what you mean. I find the most reliable method of determining too-high pressures is the resulting tightness of primer pockets--if I consume a case in 1 or 2 loads, the load is too hot.

A9 seems to burn as cleanly as any other powders I use, those being A7, A5, 800X, Universal, Longshot, and SuperField. I don't clean my gun after each shooting; sometimes I get hundreds of rounds on a barrel before cleaning it. I never notice unburned-powder residue or anything like that.

BTW, a quick way to get higher velocity is with a longer barrel; I use LW's 5.15"er. Perhaps you should consider LW's 6"er for hunting. The LW's barrels' chambers support the chamber more at the rear, but of course that makes the feed ramp steeper, and sometimes they're fussier about which rounds they feed reliably.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2020SF/20SFwLWbarrel_1000w.jpg

chippy
07-25-2010, 16:37
My thoughts exactly on the L.W.barrel. I did install a s.steel guide rod and 22#spring for the "hotter" loads. Function is much improved. I am still amazed at the accuracy of the G20. Didn't think much of the trigger for target work, but it seems to work great. I can't believe it took 20years to try a Glock! (HiPower was my fav. auto before)
I am pretty comfortable with hitting the kill-zone consistently at ranges of 50 - 75yds and beyond. I intend to keep my shots in the 25yd zone. (if I do my part)

BTW-I didn't think you were calling me "dumb". I just want to be extra careful. I really like this pistol, as well as my fingers, eyes, and other misc. body parts! 30+ years of re-loading without an incident.(knock-on-wood)
I'd shure like to keep it that way.
Thank-you for your intelligent input. This is the kind of information I was looking for at Glock-Talk. The collectors board I usually visit can get ugly when Glock is spoken!

Taterhead
07-25-2010, 18:15
Just looking for some input. I have been working up 180grn loads. Montana Gold fmj bullets, WLP primer, PMC and Win. cases. I worked all the way up to 11.4 grns of BlueDot with no excessive pressure signs, only the slightest primer smearing(firing pin), which seems to be present with all loads. The D.Taps I tried show alot more pressure(smileys and bellys). I think 11grns does what I want to do, but even this is above all published load data I have found! Ultimately this load will be used for hunting deer and black bear (possibly with a 180XTP). Any Thoughts?

I would definitely recommend that if you switch to a 180 gr XTP from MG, that you reduce and work up. In my testing, that projectile exhibits higher pressures than others I have worked with. Max charges under a 180 XTP have occurred at lower charges than others of similar weight. Load data from various makers supports that too.

I like the 180 XTP. It is very versatile. It would be a top candidate if I had to settle on a single projectile.

I agree with Jeffreybehr about A9. I love BD and have used it in 10mm Auto more than any powder; but I have found A9 to be superior in every measure except powder consumption:

1) muzzle flash/report
2) metering (nothing works better)
3) max velocity
4) clean burning
5) accuracy is a toss-up
6) SD

Lastly, you have hopefully read Alliant's warning regarding BD and .357 mag loads. They advise to not use for 125 gr loads.

jeffreybehr
07-26-2010, 01:08
Here's a tease of muzzleflash differences. I shot these tonite and haven't processed all the pics, but these are good'ns.

Accurate 9, 15.8g. under an XTP155.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2020SF/10mmA91_1200w.jpg

800X, 155 HP.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2020SF/10mm800X2_1200w.jpg

There IS a difference! BTW all pics in tonite's series were shot and developed with the exact-same settings.

chippy
07-27-2010, 06:17
Wow, very impressive!
Quite a difference between the two powders.
FWIW - Got to love the "Shock & Awe" factor of a big muzzle flash.

Thanks for the input guys!

Looks like AA9 is the more modern powder. I'll have to give it a try.

chippy
08-02-2010, 20:16
Shot some more BD/180 loads yesterday. 11grns under a 180grn. MT Gold FMJ, Win.brass, WLP primer. Cases look good, no bulges or smileys. Accurracy was good. Looking at the Alliant powder sticky above, 11grns is not as hot as some have tried. Pleny hot enough for me! I think I will drop back to 10.5 just for piece of mind.
I am planning to try some AA-9. I think it may better suit my purpose.

MinervaDoe
08-06-2010, 19:29
I'm down to less than a pound of that Bluedot. Maybe it's time for "CHANGE"....:shocked:
I don't know about that.
BUT, I am very leary of OLD blue dot of late. I recently shot some 9mm loads that I loaded in 1998. The powder was old when I loaded it.
After my incident (described below) I checked my load data and I found that the load I used was from an old Sierra manual (#11). The load was nearly a full grain higher than loads I found in my other half dozen manuals.

The incident: I had fired ammo from this "lot" of reloads before with zero issues. I went to a PPC shoot this winter where the range was venting in cold air from outside. I shot and the load seemed a lot peppier than I remembered. On one occassion I blew a magazine out of my G34 and I thought I had hit the magazine release. Later, I blew the magazine out a second time. When I took my cases home and examined them, several had the sidewall blown out at the base. I disassembled and reweighed ammo from another box of the same batch. No problem, it was all 1/2 grain below Sierra's maximum.

Was it because it was old blue dot? Maybe. Was it because the range was cold? Maybe blue dot is sensitive to temperature (isn't that what the sticky in one of the reloading forums says).

Will I use Blue Dot again? Yes. Am I going to stick to fresh powder? Yes. Do I double check loads from my old Sierra manuals against all my other manuals now. Yes.

Will I use Blue Dot over the maximum loads recommended in my manuals? No.

Do you have a copy of Ken Waters Pet Loads. He gets pretty nuclear some times and his Blue Dot load for a 180 grain FMJ is nearly a FULL TWO GRAINS lower than yours. He lists that as "Near Max" based on pressure signs.

http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Loads-Complete-Ken-Waters/dp/1879356643/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281144087&sr=1-1

Cycletroll
08-08-2010, 11:32
I have worked up quite a few Blue Dot .40 loads as well as .45 Super. In my experience Blue Dot will suddenly become over pressure .1 grain after seeming fine. As mentioned by others a load developed in warm air may be over pressure in the cold.
For these reasons I've gone to Longshot and 800x for hot loads. 800x is the fastest but meters poorly and is prone to high standard deviation because of it. Longshot, although not quite as fast is ultimately very easy to work with and very stable with hot loads in variable temperature.

chippy
08-08-2010, 20:16
It may be wise to drop down a full grain and call it good. Temps will start to fall around here real soon. I have been inspecting my fired cases real close, and there are absolutely no signs of excessive pressure. The rounds feel awful stout though. As most of my shooting is at paper,steel, and bowling pins, max loads are not necessary. Having 5 or 10 max load, premium bullet rounds in my pocket for hunting should be enough.

note:My old Speer manual(no.11) shows much higher max loads for BD than all of my other manuals. Especially .357mag. Makes you wonder if it might be wise to stick with the latest load data.

MinervaDoe
08-08-2010, 20:38
note:My old Speer manual(no.11) shows much higher max loads for BD than all of my other manuals. Especially .357mag. Makes you wonder if it might be wise to stick with the latest load data.
That's the way I'm treating my older manuals. I cross check at least two or three other manuals now.