Federal .40 S&W won't fit in the shell holder. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Memnok
08-03-2010, 23:19
Every once in a while while resizing my .40 S&W brass I come across a piece that won't slide into the shell holder. Usually I just chuck it into the reject bin, but this time I got curious. The brass didn't look damaged, so I did a side-by-side:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFj0aMxAZAI/AAAAAAAAAHs/ffQyAiM3QU0/s800/P1160581.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFj0fXyDPFI/AAAAAAAAAHw/U8xn2-XhuSY/s800/P1160584.JPG

It seems that this particular piece of Federal brass does not have a beveled base, and the extractor groove is narrower. Is this common from Federal? I noticed that Federal 40 S&W is listed as "junk" in the good vs. bad brass section, but I didn't see any mention of it not fitting into the shell holder.

IndyGunFreak
08-04-2010, 05:25
Who cares about the Federal Brass.. What's your procedure for cleaning brass? ;)

IGF

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 06:50
Who cares about the Federal Brass.. What's your procedure for cleaning brass? ;)

IGF

I didn't appreciate your comment until I saw the pictures. Nice bling.:wow:

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 06:55
Every once in a while while resizing my .40 S&W brass I come across a piece that won't slide into the shell holder. Usually I just chuck it into the reject bin, but this time I got curious. The brass didn't look damaged, so I did a side-by-side:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFj0aMxAZAI/AAAAAAAAAHs/ffQyAiM3QU0/s800/P1160581.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFj0fXyDPFI/AAAAAAAAAHw/U8xn2-XhuSY/s800/P1160584.JPG

It seems that this particular piece of Federal brass does not have a beveled base, and the extractor groove is narrower. Is this common from Federal? I noticed that Federal 40 S&W is listed as "junk" in the good vs. bad brass section, but I didn't see any mention of it not fitting into the shell holder.

A cursory check of my Federal examples shows the head at .055 standard, and it also includes a bevel.

If a round won't go in a shellholder I check it for burrs and extractor damage. I have an old ignition file that is handy for cleaning up minor imperfections. If the case is a fired round, it probably was passable at one point and should be able to be reconditioned. I should add that I have an inexpensive eyepiece for magnification. That has been an indispensable tool in my reloading.

unclebob
08-04-2010, 06:56
Who cares about the Federal Brass.. What's your procedure for cleaning brass? ;)

IGF
Mine look the same as his also.

What brand shell holder. My bet it is a Lee.

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 07:12
Mine look the same as his also.

What brand shell holder. My bet it is a Lee.

My sample of Federal brass fits perfectly on four (4) types of Lee shellholders.

unclebob
08-04-2010, 07:51
My sample of Federal brass fits perfectly on four (4) types of Lee shellholders.

Lee manufacture tolerances suck. Mennok probably has one that is on the tight side and that is why the case well not go into the shell holder.
I have both Lee and RCBS shell holders. The RCBS are 100% better than the Leeís.

FLSlim
08-04-2010, 08:22
Once or twice I have had once fired Federal brass not fit the shell holder. I just tossed the brass. Good pix, BTW.

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 11:51
Lee manufacture tolerances suck. Mennok probably has one that is on the tight side and that is why the case well not go into the shell holder.
I have both Lee and RCBS shell holders. The RCBS are 100% better than the Leeís.

Referring to shellholders specifically, the only thing pertinent in this thread, if the parts are molded or made on CNC machinery, how are the tolerances going to "suck"?

unclebob
08-04-2010, 12:08
Referring to shellholders specifically, the only thing pertinent in this thread, if the parts are molded or made on CNC machinery, how are the tolerances going to "suck"?
Does the cutting tool on a CNC or anyother cutting tool get smaller with use?
Yes. Do you know what manufacture tolerances are?

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 12:31
Does the cutting tool on a CNC or anyother cutting tool get smaller with use?
Yes. Do you know what manufacture tolerances are?

But that would make all brands of shellholders "suck" equally, made in similar fashion. The real point would be.....?

fredj338
08-04-2010, 13:05
COuple of observations & a question. Is that a reloaded piece of brass or factory? It looks to have expanded quite a bit. Federal brass is notoriously soft, makes it about 2 reloads @ full power in most calibers, before problems start showing up. If it fit the SH before the firing & now does not, the case head could have deformed under high pressure & brass flow. I do not seek out Federal brass & never buy it knowingly, rifle or pistol. Although it does seem ok at modest pressures like 38sp & 45acp.

LoadedTech
08-04-2010, 13:53
I have the same problem with CBC brass in .357/.38 on my lee handpress. I used a small file to open the mouth of the lee shellholder a touch, they work fine now. I haven't had an issue with my loadmaster shellholder in .40 with any brass I use.

unclebob
08-04-2010, 14:52
But that would make all brands of shellholders "suck" equally, made in similar fashion. The real point would be.....?
No because most of the other manufactures have a much tighter + or Ė tolerances. Also better quality control. I have one Lee shell holder that you could not even put any case in with out forcing it in. and I also I have where I had too take a file too get rid of the sharp edge, after I sliced my thumb open. I have also had a Lee sizer die that I donít think even sized the case.

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 15:23
No because most of the other manufactures have a much tighter + or Ė tolerances. Also better quality control. I have one Lee shell holder that you could not even put any case in with out forcing it in. and I also I have where I had too take a file too get rid of the sharp edge, after I sliced my thumb open. I have also had a Lee sizer die that I donít think even sized the case.

Without meaning to make excuses, it sounds like you are using "the one strike" rule for three unique problems. If there are many other testimonies about like problems, then I would be concerned.

Just last evening I decided to file some hazardous edges off an apparently die cast aluminum handle on a Loadmaster press. It never occurred to me to make an issue out of it. I liked the price, and I owned a file. No, I was not impressed by the quality, but I have more time than money and I have tools that need to justify themselves.

My one issue with Lee stuff involved an Auto-Disk powder measure that had no disks in the box. Rather than mess around with returns or somehow find disks for me, MidwayUSA just sent me another complete box, this time with all the parts in it. That extra measure assembly allows me to have two powder measures as long as both don't need the same disk. I got the Adjustable charge bar that replaces the disks, so suddenly have a complete powder measure. That feels pretty good compared to the disgust or frustration I felt when first opening a box without all the parts in it. Should they check their boxes more carefully? Of course. What do you do when stuff happens that you can't control personally?

Lastly, note that Lee has a two year, unconditional warranty, and then only needed when the dealer does not take care of the problem. I think your parts would have been cheerfully replaced. However, sometimes it is just more practical to fix whatever you can yourself.

unclebob
08-04-2010, 15:54
At Liberty.
I do think you are missing the whole point of what the OP said and what I have been saying.
I do not believe he has a brass problem I think he has a Shell holder problem. That the shell holder is out of specifications. I then stated why I thought so.
No Iím not going too play Lee games and have too send the part back too them for a replacement. I either fix the problem. Or like the sizer die, keep it in case I need too replace the decapping rod on another die that some day might break.
I would say that most people that post on here that have a problem are using a Lee product. Yes that is just from my own personal observation and no hard controlled study facts.

at_liberty
08-04-2010, 17:06
At Liberty.
I do think you are missing the whole point of what the OP said and what I have been saying.
I do not believe he has a brass problem I think he has a Shell holder problem. That the shell holder is out of specifications. I then stated why I thought so.
No Iím not going too play Lee games and have too send the part back too them for a replacement. I either fix the problem. Or like the sizer die, keep it in case I need too replace the decapping rod on another die that some day might break.
I would say that most people that post on here that have a problem are using a Lee product. Yes that is just from my own personal observation and no hard controlled study facts.

Actually, we were trying to find the logic or factual basis for your stating that Lee products "suck" and implying that only a fool would own one, a tangent that you introduced and are obliged to defend, when challenged about it.

I can appreciate that some of these evaluations can be emotional rather than logical or sensible, depending on the level of frustration.

Could we at least wait to find out if, in fact, the shellholder in question is from Lee. We don't know that yet but are going off on Lee stuff again. I try to be objective, but I gotta tell ya that the cost savings that Lee represents means a lot to me, and I can overlook minor problems quite easily.

D. Manley
08-04-2010, 17:09
At Liberty.
I do think you are missing the whole point of what the OP said and what I have been saying.
I do not believe he has a brass problem I think he has a Shell holder problem. That the shell holder is out of specifications. I then stated why I thought so.
No Iím not going too play Lee games and have too send the part back too them for a replacement. I either fix the problem. Or like the sizer die, keep it in case I need too replace the decapping rod on another die that some day might break.
I would say that most people that post on here that have a problem are using a Lee product. Yes that is just from my own personal observation and no hard controlled study facts.

Not to stir the pot but it's a fact that Lee's shellholders are, "different". Case in point, where their 9MM & .40 shellholder is the same, other brands are caliber specific and held to closer tolerances. As to the OP's cases not fitting, if the .40 caliber case has any extraction burrs (even small ones), it can muck up the fit in the Lee 9MM/.40 shellholder. I use mine only on case prep stuff (not actual loading) and have noticed this on several occasions.

unclebob
08-04-2010, 17:37
If you go back and read post #7. I did not say Lee produces sucks. I said there manufacturing tolerances suck. If I thought all of there products sucks. Then I believe I would not own or use any of there products. But in fact I do own and use some of their products.
Sorry if you think that Iím bashing Lee products. That was not my intention.

GioaJack
08-04-2010, 17:40
I just love a thinly veiled product bashing. :devildance:


Jack

unclebob
08-04-2010, 17:57
Good evening too you Jack. See your back too your old tricks.

GioaJack
08-04-2010, 18:11
Good evening too you Jack. See your back too your old tricks.


Hi unclebob... I'm bored, I need a woman... or several. :whistling:


Jack

unclebob
08-04-2010, 18:24
Hi unclebob... I'm bored, I need a woman... or several. :whistling:


Jack

Well what do expect when you live by a town of approximately 200 people? Women comeing out the woodwork to pounce on you?:tongueout:

Memnok
08-04-2010, 20:18
What brand shell holder. My bet it is a Lee.

You would be correct. The shell holder I was using was a Lee.

I have both Lee and RCBS shell holders. The RCBS are 100% better than the Leeís.

I have both too! And neither of them will accept this particular piece of brass. :tongueout:

It's not a shell holder problem. I checked the width of the extractor grove. This case measures 0.3770"

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFoczEhCsEI/AAAAAAAAAIU/gNw_-WSf324/s912/P1160593.JPG

While a "normal" case was 0.3450"

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFocy6MArgI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/8ul5A59UoTE/s912/P1160592.JPG

It's definitely the case. It really does not look to be an over pressure issue. The case has not been resized, but as you can see, it's not all that out of shape. No pop-belly or anything. It think the light in the first photos made it look a bit more expanded.

The case in question is on the right:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFodsS8ifoI/AAAAAAAAAIs/CuABlt-y3yo/s912/P1160591.JPG

Who cares about the Federal Brass.. What's your procedure for cleaning brass? ;)

Corn cob, Nu-Finish, a used fabric softener sheet cut into strips, and about 10 hours in the Lyman Turbo 1200. But it's a secret, so don't tell anyone. :quiet:

Colorado4Wheel
08-04-2010, 20:34
10 hours. WOW.

GioaJack
08-04-2010, 20:49
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFj0aMxAZAI/AAAAAAAAAHs/ffQyAiM3QU0/s800/P1160581.JPG

I showed pictures of your shiny brass to a few women. My theory has been proven correct once again... they started ripping their clothes off before I had a chance to tell them it wasn't my brass.

Oh, BTW, you owe me $110 for Viagra. :whistling:


Jack

MrVvrroomm
08-04-2010, 21:00
...and about 10 hours in the Lyman Turbo 1200...seriously?

Memnok
08-04-2010, 21:06
seriously?

Does that seem excessive? I set it up, go to work, and empty it when I get home. It's worked this many times:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-_Yk6qV6Q7I/TFoo3qrA60I/AAAAAAAAAJE/Uv_v5wPtNeE/s912/P1160594.JPG

PCJim
08-04-2010, 21:39
I just compared six Federal cases to a Blazer case, all RPU brass of unknown origin. I did not follow in C4W's footsteps of measuring every crack and crevice of the brass, but can tell you there was no obvious difference in the appearance of the extractor groove, its bevel or the case head bevel between the Federal and Blazer cases.

I think you just happened to come across a bad batch of extruded brass. It sometimes happens in our mechanized world.

IndyGunFreak
08-05-2010, 01:20
Does that seem excessive? I set it up, go to work, and empty it when I get home. It's worked this many times:

While I won't argue with your results.. Yes, to me, 10hrs is excessive.

IGF

unclebob
08-05-2010, 05:44
Get a light timer or I think they are called security timer about $10. Set it for 4 hours max. No need too run them that long.

WiskyT
08-05-2010, 06:18
Does that seem excessive? I set it up, go to work, and empty it when I get home. It's worked this many times:



You should search for tumbler fires and reconsider leaving your tumlber unnatended, unless you live with your parents.

As far as the brass not fitting, it's a matter of tolerances. Your shellholder could be tight or the brass could be a little fat in one particular spot. I'd try a different shellholder if you can borrow one.

PCJim
08-05-2010, 08:37
Does that seem excessive? I set it up, go to work, and empty it when I get home.......

I agree, 10 hours is overkill. As already stated, obtain an appliance/light/security timer (less than $5), set the pins for 2 hours and let it manage the tumbler. I've found that with straight walnut media, 2 hours is plenty enough. If you add 2-3 teaspoons of paint thinner to the walnut, even less time is required.