Winchester Ranger 9mm NATO brass. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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GuyWithGun
08-04-2010, 23:35
I ordered a bunch of this ammo for practice because I carry +p 9mm ammo (or hotter) in all my wife and I's carry guns and think practicing with a hotter load is prudent. Is this truely +p brass that I can reload to my Buffalo Bore specs for my +p+ carry ammo specs.

WiskyT
08-05-2010, 06:21
It's bras with a crimped in primer. If you live near Jack, he just got a crimp remover. Stop by with a bottle of wine, preferably home made, and he'll let you use it. He'll also let you remove the crimps from his brass.

So where does one get data to reload to Buffalo Bore +P+ specs? I've never seen any +P 9mm data and making up your own would be messy.

Colorado4Wheel
08-05-2010, 07:27
You don't generally reload to +P. Never mind +p+. But you gan make ammo that feels stout with out breaking +P pressure.

WiskyT
08-05-2010, 07:29
You don't generally reload to +P. Never mind +p+. But you gan make ammo that feels stout with out breaking +P pressure.

Did your EEOC Letter Carrier Person show up yet?

grenadier
08-05-2010, 07:53
It should be quite fine. On another note, 9 mm brass is plentiful and cheap, even in today's day and age of high priced plinking fodder. There's really nothing special about the Winchester Ranger brass.

If you want to make loads that duplicate the feel of the Winchester +P / +P+ stuff, you can do so using slower burning powders, and as Colorado4wheel stated, you can do so without breaking 35000 psi.

There are several powders that can accomplish this:

Vihtavuori 3N38
Vihtavuori 3N37
Vihtavuori N350
Alliant Power Pistol

GuyWithGun
08-05-2010, 10:06
T,

Have no idea how they are loading, but if you have a bullet type and a muzzle velocity everything else should be just a matter of finding the right powder and pushing it to the right speed. Particularly if you have one if the factories to poach measurements off of. I plan to start with a standard pressure load and slowly heat it up, jumping right in to the over pressured stuff seems a bit rash.

GuyWithGun
08-05-2010, 10:20
It should be quite fine. On another note, 9 mm brass is plentiful and cheap, even in today's day and age of high priced plinking fodder. There's really nothing special about the Winchester Ranger brass.

If you want to make loads that duplicate the feel of the Winchester +P / +P+ stuff, you can do so using slower burning powders, and as Colorado4wheel stated, you can do so without breaking 35000 psi.

There are several powders that can accomplish this:

Vihtavuori 3N38
Vihtavuori 3N37
Vihtavuori N350
Alliant Power Pistol

Good point. All I am trying to do it reach a specific muzzle velocity without blowing my weapons up. A better way to ask my original question should have been "Can I push Winchester Ranger brass with a 124 gr hollow point past 1300 fps in a reloaded cartridge and what is a good powder to start with so I don't blow my face off". I have some cheaper stuff I would t even try it with, but figured if it is loaded to NATO specs, should stand up to the hotter reloads ok.

Sadly, starting with virgin brass never occurred to me. Have "reloading" stuck on my brain and haven't completely ingrained the concept of "handloading" into my vocabulary yet. Is still something other people do I guess.

Colorado4Wheel
08-05-2010, 11:38
T,

Have no idea how they are loading, but if you have a bullet type and a muzzle velocity everything else should be just a matter of finding the right powder and pushing it to the right speed. Particularly if you have one if the factories to poach measurements off of. I plan to start with a standard pressure load and slowly heat it up, jumping right in to the over pressured stuff seems a bit rash.

You can have the same Muzzel Velocity and Bullet type and have VASTLY different "feel" in the gun using different powders. Some might be way (and I mean WAY) over pressure and some might be under pressure. So chasing a chrono number with a powder and saying "i'm getting the same velocity they 'advertise' so I should be safe" Is a HUGE mistake. Never mind they lie when they advertise.

WiskyT
08-05-2010, 15:41
I doubt NATO ball does 1300FPS.

GuyWithGun
08-05-2010, 18:42
I doubt NATO ball does 1300FPS.

Gets pretty close out of an m9, but that isn't the point. My carry ammo is exceeding that and that is what I am trying to duplicate.

Colorado4Wheel
08-05-2010, 18:53
They "rate" Nato Ball @ 1230fps. Not 1300 fps.

grenadier
08-06-2010, 13:20
Good point. All I am trying to do it reach a specific muzzle velocity without blowing my weapons up. A better way to ask my original question should have been "Can I push Winchester Ranger brass with a 124 gr hollow point past 1300 fps in a reloaded cartridge and what is a good powder to start with so I don't blow my face off". I have some cheaper stuff I would t even try it with, but figured if it is loaded to NATO specs, should stand up to the hotter reloads ok.

http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Relodata/Handgun/9mmLuger.jpg

3N38 can propel a 147 grainer to 1200 fps, so it should certainly be capable of propelling a 124 grainer to 1300 fps. Also, 3N37 can propel a 130 grainer to 1230 fps. Either of those recipes are within standard SAAMI specs. I see no reason why you couldn't use once-fired brass, even if it were previously at +P levels.

Just make sure you inspect the casings first, and start out more conservatively. Work your way up, as usual...

WiskyT
08-06-2010, 13:33
http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Relodata/Handgun/9mmLuger.jpg

3N38 can propel a 147 grainer to 1200 fps, so it should certainly be capable of propelling a 124 grainer to 1300 fps. Also, 3N37 can propel a 130 grainer to 1230 fps. Either of those recipes are within standard SAAMI specs. I see no reason why you couldn't use once-fired brass, even if it were previously at +P levels.

Just make sure you inspect the casings first, and start out more conservatively. Work your way up, as usual...

I checked your link and didn't see any data listing any 124 jacketed bullets at 1300fps, did I miss something? They highest they showed was around 1230 or so.

Colorado4Wheel
08-06-2010, 19:20
http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Relodata/Handgun/9mmLuger.jpg

3N38 can propel a 147 grainer to 1200 fps, so it should certainly be capable of propelling a 124 grainer to 1300 fps. Also, 3N37 can propel a 130 grainer to 1230 fps. Either of those recipes are within standard SAAMI specs. I see no reason why you couldn't use once-fired brass, even if it were previously at +P levels.

Just make sure you inspect the casings first, and start out more conservatively. Work your way up, as usual...

Have you actually done it or are you just looking at some load data?

DanaT
08-06-2010, 19:57
You don't generally reload to +P. Never mind +p+. But you gan make ammo that feels stout with out breaking +P pressure.

I make all my +p very easily. I just add twice as much powder. The hard part is +p+. Its hard to fill the case with three times the powder.

-Dana

grenadier
08-07-2010, 15:10
Have you actually done it or are you just looking at some load data?

I've used the 3N38 recipe with the 147 grain XTP, to make 9 mm major. It can certainly be done. This was out of my Glock 17 (3rd generation).

My Glock 17 is a bit "fast" compared to other Glock 17's, but that's to be expected, since there are "fast" Glocks and "slow" Glocks, even in the same model.

Colorado4Wheel
08-07-2010, 16:42
I've used the 3N38 recipe with the 147 grain XTP, to make 9 mm major. It can certainly be done. This was out of my Glock 17 (3rd generation).

My Glock 17 is a bit "fast" compared to other Glock 17's, but that's to be expected, since there are "fast" Glocks and "slow" Glocks, even in the same model.

Did you chrono it? What was the recipe and results? Did you try it in .40 as well?

grenadier
08-08-2010, 14:52
Did you chrono it? What was the recipe and results? Did you try it in .40 as well?

My recipe:

147 grain Hornady XTP JHP bullet
6.6 grains Vihtavuori 3N38 powder
Winchester standard small pistol primer
COAL = 1.142"

Avg Velocity from a 5 shot sampling = 1155 fps

While that's lower than the published VV data, keep in mind that they're using vented test barrels, and mine's factory stock.

Using once fired Starline brass (from a load of Georgia Arms 124 grain +P Gold Dot factory new ammo), I didn't see any excessive pressure signs. No flattened primers, etc.

One of these days, I'd like to try to work up a load using my last couple dozens of Oregon Trail Lasercast lead bullets...

I have not tried 3N38 in the .40, since that caliber really doesn't need high velocities to reach major.

Colorado4Wheel
08-08-2010, 15:45
My recipe:

147 grain Hornady XTP JHP bullet
6.6 grains Vihtavuori 3N38 powder
Winchester standard small pistol primer
COAL = 1.142"

Avg Velocity from a 5 shot sampling = 1155 fps

While that's lower than the published VV data, keep in mind that they're using vented test barrels, and mine's factory stock.

Using once fired Starline brass (from a load of Georgia Arms 124 grain +P Gold Dot factory new ammo), I didn't see any excessive pressure signs. No flattened primers, etc.

One of these days, I'd like to try to work up a load using my last couple dozens of Oregon Trail Lasercast lead bullets...

I have not tried 3N38 in the .40, since that caliber really doesn't need high velocities to reach major.

Interesting. And that 147gr load is not a max load from looking at the load manual.

They have some really stout .40 load data as well. I just have not met anyone who has actually tried it.

grenadier
08-08-2010, 15:59
Interesting. And that 147gr load is not a max load from looking at the load manual.

They have some really stout .40 load data as well. I just have not met anyone who has actually tried it.

Indeed... I suspect, though, that much of the high velocities are due to the 5.5" vented test barrel that they use. Maybe a Glock 35 could get closer, but I doubt that most people will match such velocities using a standard Glock 22 barrel.