A good reliable, affordable, semi-automatic 12 gauge for the wife. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Teecher45
08-07-2010, 00:55
Looking for a semi for the wife. She doesn't have a lot of experience with guns and am afraid she would panic and forget to pump or just plain miss with the pistols. Is the saiga a good HD weapon? I work for the state, so let's keep price a factor. Thanks in advance...

9mmdude
08-07-2010, 05:58
My 2 cents,

No gun will replace a lack of shooting experience.

A Remington 20 gauge 870 pump shotgun will fit your wife as well as any semi-auto. If you buy an express model and take your $$ savings and buy a ton of cheap walmart shells you can have your wife practice and run that shotgun like she has owned it for years. The pump will be reliable and offer a home defense solution that a Semi-Auto will not.

-Semi-Autos are for fun
-Pumps are for real.

Once she gets the 870 experience you can branch out and look at handguns. Many ranges offer instruction at low prices and females who have never been around firearms tend to learn a lot quicker than males. They do not have bad habits to break and usually grasp the instruction quickly.

GlockPride
08-07-2010, 07:08
I'm really in the same camp as 9pm. Well said.
If the wife is recoil-sensitive another in house option might be .410. I'm not a huge fan, but it would work at room and hall distances.

method
08-07-2010, 09:38
Skip the Saiga, it's not ergonomically ideal for a novice gun handler.

Z71bill
08-07-2010, 13:09
I went through the exact same thought process as you -

Wanted a shotgun for my wife - figured a semi auto would be a better choice - I went with a 20 gauge - not because of recoil - but because it is lighter - and because of the - will she forget to pump it problem.

IMHO it is a wash - reliability of the pump is offset by ease of use / less recoil of a semi auto.

My wife could barely lift my 870 up into firing position.

I would look at the Mossberg semi auto - if your wife is small try the youth model.

I wanted a 20 gauge semi auto Mossberg youth model - but could never seem to find one (they are all over now:upeyes:) - I bought a Hatsan Escort 20 gauge youth model at Academy with the 22 inch barrel - it was on sale $300 out the door. It has been 100% reliable with Walmart target loads & #3 buckshot.

I wonder if the people that shun a semi auto for a HD shotgun feel the same way about a semi auto pistol for CC? Wouldn't a revolver be better? :upeyes:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r128/z71bill/gun%20pics/P1000180.jpg

I ended up trimming the hard rubber butt pad just below the little holes and installing a slip on Limbsaver recoil pad.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r128/z71bill/gun%20pics/DSCF0001-1.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r128/z71bill/gun%20pics/DSCF0003-2.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r128/z71bill/gun%20pics/DSCF0002-2.jpg

mixflip
08-07-2010, 14:39
Modern high quality semi-auto shotguns arent the same as the old finicky semis of the past that the "unreliable" reputation was born from.

Ask most competitive shotgun shooters who have thousands of shotgun rounds down range under timed stress courses of fire and almost all will tell you that they have seen more malfunctions with pump action shotguns than semi autos.

Would I choose a semi as my 1st layer of defense? No. Not because of facts and statistics...but because I am stubborn and old school. I love my Benelli SuperNova Tactical pump action 12 gauge thats all. Would I trust my life and my families life to my Mossberg 930 SPX? Absolutely yes!!! It still has not had a malfunction while my Mossberg 590 and Remington 1187 semi both have had FTF's.

Of course most pump FTF's are due to user error but user error is still a big factor in stressful shooting for anyone new to shotguns. There is a substantial learning curve that most do not commit to mastering with pumps.

Training is really the key. Learn to run wut ya brung!

Z71bill
08-07-2010, 21:38
Modern high quality semi-auto shotguns arent the same as the old finicky semis of the past that the "unreliable" reputation was born from.

Ask most competitive shotgun shooters who have thousands of shotgun rounds down range under timed stress courses of fire and almost all will tell you that they have seen more malfunctions with pump action shotguns than semi autos.

Would I choose a semi as my 1st layer of defense? No. Not because of facts and statistics...but because I am stubborn and old school. I love my Benelli SuperNova Tactical pump action 12 gauge thats all. Would I trust my life and my families life to my Mossberg 930 SPX? Absolutely yes!!! It still has not had a malfunction while my Mossberg 590 and Remington 1187 semi both have had FTF's.

Of course most pump FTF's are due to user error but user error is still a big factor in stressful shooting for anyone new to shotguns. There is a substantial learning curve that most do not commit to mastering with pumps.

Training is really the key. Learn to run wut ya brung!

I agree with everything in your post - I am also an old school guy with 3 pump action 12 gauge shotguns:wavey:

I decided a semi auto was better for my wife -

I shot a few hundred rounds through it before she fired it once - I wanted to make sure it was safe - and worked like it should.

Guess what I did the first couple shots?

BANG - then I tried to PUMP THE ACTION :embarassed:- BTW - it is really hard to pump a semi auto. :upeyes:

Training is important - but people need to be realistic - I only go to the range 6 or 7 times a year - my wife goes most of the time - but not always - 4 times maybe 5 -

Most people want a firearm that is easy to use - easy to shoot - provides good level of power - and does not take 500 hours of training. I will say - point and click simple -:dunno:

I am not saying it would not be better to spend many hours in training - just that there are a whole lot of people that will never do this.

If instead they can - after a few trips to the range learn the basics - and then 1 or 2 refresher trips a year - gain the knowledge to use the weapon - they are 1,000% better off than having no gun at all.

MJB
08-08-2010, 10:52
Looking for a semi for the wife. She doesn't have a lot of experience with guns and am afraid she would panic and forget to pump or just plain miss with the pistols. Is the saiga a good HD weapon? I work for the state, so let's keep price a factor. Thanks in advance...

If you are afraid that she would forget to pump a shotgun then she may also forget to take it off safe. I have shot many a shotshell and I have done this myself while hunting and shooting clays. It always happened on the first shot, which of course, would most likely be the one needed most in a SD situation. This is one reason I prefer a Glock or Revolver for SD purposes.

Choose her weapon carefully and have her practice a lot.

Darkangel1846
08-08-2010, 11:14
Have you considered a double barrel 20 g

FH Alum
08-09-2010, 15:40
http://www.rossiusa.com/news-detail.cfm?newsID=25

Granted it's .410 vs. 12ga, but I wouldn't discount a 3" load of 00 out of this.

light recoil, quick reload, no short stroke issue, no safety issue.

I really want one, don't know what for other than I just think it's cool.

southernshooter
08-09-2010, 19:01
Weatherby SA-08. $449 is the regular price. You might be able to beat that. Reliable, lightweight, good recoil pad, gas action to lighten felt recoil. They also make a youth model if she is small. My Beretta AL390 (up to $557 now at W.M.) is just as reliable but no recoil pad. The weatherby is sold at Sportsmans whse and sometimes at Dick's sporting goods. Prob. also at Academy and others.

twag4
08-09-2010, 20:46
But, you have to admit, if the bad guy hears the action of the pump--he will most likely depart. He won't hear the semi-auto and sh&#@$t himself.

method
08-10-2010, 11:24
But, you have to admit, if the bad guy hears the action of the pump--he will most likely depart. He won't hear the semi-auto and sh&#@$t himself.

That nonsense doesn't get much heed around these forums. Think of it this way, he may turn tail, or he could just as easily start spraying lead in the general direction of the big scary sound, since he now knows where you are.

Glocker08
08-10-2010, 12:26
But, you have to admit, if the bad guy hears the action of the pump--he will most likely depart. He won't hear the semi-auto and sh&#@$t himself.

Racking the bolt on a semi-auto makes that scurry sound too. :tongueout:

That nonsense doesn't get much heed around these forums. Think of it this way, he may turn tail, or he could just as easily start spraying lead in the general direction of the big scary sound, since he now knows where you are.

:agree:

Z71bill
08-10-2010, 12:29
But, you have to admit, if the bad guy hears the action of the pump--he will most likely depart. He won't hear the semi-auto and sh&#@$t himself.

When I chamber a round in my semi auto shotgun it sounds like someone just loaded a round in a shotgun. :upeyes:

999/1,000 people breaking into houses in the middle of the night will recognize the sound.

We can debate if having the BG know I just loaded a round into my shotgun is a good thing or not - but make no mistake - they will hear the sound.

Nutt51
08-10-2010, 12:40
I would also recommend the 870 pump, easier to learn
on and very reliable.
I would teach my girls and wife on a pump, then when
they got more experience they could tackle the auto.
Same as teaching them on a revolver, then move to
a semi-auto.
You may find like mine they wanted to stay with the
pump once they got comfortable with it.
Like the fellows above said, shoot it, shoot it, and shoot
it some more.
Here is a good one for the ladies unless they are small
frame and need a youth model.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64/products_id/41038

twag4
08-10-2010, 12:44
That nonsense doesn't get much heed around these forums. Think of it this way, he may turn tail, or he could just as easily start spraying lead in the general direction of the big scary sound, since he now knows where you are.


You guys clearly have a very high end class of house thieves and rapists in your neck of the woods. Our criminals don't want confrontation normally. And I thought most of you guys keep one in the chamber, No? No doubt a semi-auto will do the trick. But Having both myself, there is no doubt that a pump is much much more intimidating.

NDCent
08-10-2010, 13:12
This is starting to remind me of a semi auto pistol verses revolver thread.

Z71bill
08-10-2010, 13:18
I would also recommend the 870 pump, easier to learn
on and very reliable.
I would teach my girls and wife on a pump, then when
they got more experience they could tackle the auto.
Same as teaching them on a revolver, then move to
a semi-auto.
You may find like mine they wanted to stay with the
pump once they got comfortable with it.
Like the fellows above said, shoot it, shoot it, and shoot
it some more.
Here is a good one for the ladies unless they are small
frame and need a youth model.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64/products_id/41038


Why do you think it is easier to learn how to shot a pump?

I do not see much difference -

Not exactly sure if this is 100% right -

First of all - more practice is better than less - no doubt about that -

I think the concept goes something like - if you train to do something enough - then when the time comes that you need to use the skills - you will most likely do what you were trained to do - without needing to really think about it.

Although I agree with this in concept - for police - military - and other highly trained people -

I doubt that my wife will never train enough so the skills of pumping the action will become "automatic" - When under the stress and threat of a home invasion or attempted rape/murder.

So this is how I end up with a semi auto for her - because I think it is easier to use / more reliable way to put lead on a target under extreme stress.

I will keep using a pump action 12 gauge - but still think a semi is a good choice for my wife.

Teecher45
08-10-2010, 15:40
FH ALUM is on the right track. We spent the day sat looking at several different types and yesterday we ordered a Taurus Judge public defender and picked up two boxes of the Winchester pdx1 for it. It will also double as her CCW, and our fishing gun. I fully supported this decision.

method
08-10-2010, 16:33
You guys clearly have a very high end class of house thieves and rapists in your neck of the woods. Our criminals don't want confrontation normally. And I thought most of you guys keep one in the chamber, No? No doubt a semi-auto will do the trick. But Having both myself, there is no doubt that a pump is much much more intimidating.


Well if they don't want confrontation, they shouldn't be breaking into houses. If they're that skittish though, just yell at them.

Is hearing a round chambered into a pump gun really that much scarier than hearing one going into an autoloader? Is it really going to make any difference? Putting any merit into the intimidation factor of a gun's looks or the sounds it makes is just silly to begin with.

Bowtie
08-11-2010, 11:15
there is no doubt that a pump is much much more intimidating.

Why is that?

twag4
08-11-2010, 12:55
Geeeeez I was just chiming in. I did not mean to offend all of you guys with the scary pump sound comments. Glock talk-continue to eat your young. This is why many go to other forums. Wow!

CTfam
08-11-2010, 16:00
A shotgun is a horrible choice for a new shooter IMO. The Saiga would most likely scare the living crap out of her and she'll never want to shoot it again. Most new shooters don't have fun when they shoot shotgun therefore it doesn't come out as often. Just what I've noticed anyways. Been there, done that, sold my Saiga-12. I prefer a pistol for HD these days because I shoot it the most.

Thunderbolt56
08-11-2010, 18:43
There's an argument on behalf of the semi auto that Mas Ayoob mentioned where a semi auto would be typically preferred as it can be more readily deployed and brought into battery with one hand. maybe not too uncommon a situation as we may wish or hope for.

For the OP, I would say the option for a good 20 ga semi auto (possibly in youth size) would be my choice.

My first shotgun at age 14 was a Sear's 20 ga side by side. It was so short and light and was such a great shooter, that I used it for Quail even when I had newer, more expensive 12 ga semi's later in life.

Restless28
08-11-2010, 19:46
If ya'll don't shoot a lot, I could see where someone might not operate the pump correctly. The semi-auto is pull the trigger as many times as it takes. For some reason, the coach gun seems like the shotgun for casual owners, along with a wheelgun.

I still think a good dog is the first defense. In fact, I was in the county this week, and got lost, and had to turn around in a private driveway. There was a nice gate at the road, along with a nice pair of GSDs. I was impressed. If you're brave enough to get past them, what awaits you when you get to the home?

Zebulon
08-11-2010, 22:32
You probably have your answer by now, but just today, I shopped a Local Gunstore and found a beautiful Remington 870 20 Gauge Youth Model that is perfect for my Wife. Short Stock, Great Wood, Parkerized,,,,Less than $300 new...I don'r recall the exact money...we're going back tomorrow....Zebulon

VZ1600
08-12-2010, 01:43
Geeeeez I was just chiming in. I did not mean to offend all of you guys with the scary pump sound comments. Glock talk-continue to eat your young. This is why many go to other forums. Wow!

Try bringing up that "racking the shotgun scares the BG" silliness over at the shotgunworld.com forums if you think its so bad over here. :upeyes:

To the OP, I have the Mossberg SPX 930 and it has been a wonderful shotgun thus far. I highly recommend you look at one if you have the chance.

twag4
08-12-2010, 08:39
[QUOTE=VZ1600;15795262]Try bringing up that "racking the shotgun scares the BG" silliness over at the shotgunworld.com forums if you think its so bad over here. :upeyes:

Actually, the first place I ever saw the link to interviews with home burglers who all unanimously in their own words that their biggest fear while robbing a home was that the homeowner might be there and own a pump action 12 ga was on shotgunworld.com. Like I said, I own each myself, i was just chimin' in--so lighten up!

Harbour
08-13-2010, 17:31
[QUOTE=VZ1600;15795262]
Actually, the first place I ever saw the link to interviews with home burglers who all unanimously in their own words that their biggest fear while robbing a home was that the homeowner might be there and own a pump action 12 ga was on shotgunworld.com.

I find it remarkable that the burglars weren't the least bit afraid of 12 ga semi-auto shotguns.

VZ1600
08-15-2010, 16:25
[QUOTE=VZ1600;15795262]Try bringing up that "racking the shotgun scares the BG" silliness over at the shotgunworld.com forums if you think its so bad over here. :upeyes:

Actually, the first place I ever saw the link to interviews with home burglers who all unanimously in their own words that their biggest fear while robbing a home was that the homeowner might be there and own a pump action 12 ga was on shotgunworld.com. Like I said, I own each myself, i was just chimin' in--so lighten up!

No worries pal, I'm light enough.

I just happen to laugh everytime I hear the racking the shotgun stuff. With all the times I have hit the range with my 500A or my 590, not once has anyone lost control of their bowel's when I racked the slide. :rofl: