I've become quite impressed with HST [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ABNAK
08-08-2010, 12:12
Especially the heavy-for-caliber loads. I've never been a fan of the heavier rounds, instead preferring a little speed; not quite a "speed freak" (like 135gr .40 loads, or 115gr 9mm) but some juice nonetheless---155gr .40's, 124gr +P 9mm's, 185gr +P .45's.

Over the years I have tested many different bullets, all with the same protocol I've mentioned here before: through 4 layers of a towel and into my swimming pool. Now I know water enhances expansion, but IIRC it is closer to gelatin results in that category than penetration measurements. They all rest on the bottom of the pool afterwards so it's impossible to tell when they came to a stop and gravity took over. With expansion being *similar* to gelatin I tend to look at how a bullet acts once penetrating the "clothing". Especially with the JHP's of years past, clothing would trip them up significantly and hinder expansion. This was exagerrated in heavy loads for caliber, and led to my "need for speed". Maybe someday I'll buy a side of beef and let 'er rip!

Enter the modern era of handgun bullet design. Federal HST has really impressed me. While the "lighter" loads open up fine, the heavier ones in each caliber really shine, and this from relatively short barrels no less (Glock 36, Kahr CW9). I notice the skives cut into the jacket are longer on the heavier loads, no doubt aiding expansion at the lower velocities that heavier loads produce.

For the first time I will load 147gr rounds in my Glock 19 and 230gr +P rounds in my Glock 36. Just gotta find some 180gr HST's out there somewhere for my new Sig P250 (if the other calibers are any example the .40 cal 180gr'ers should exceed the lighter .40 HST's in expansion).

DRT
08-08-2010, 17:42
Welcome to the party, Pal.

JBP55
08-08-2010, 18:47
HST is good to go.

wruckis
08-08-2010, 19:40
Yep, love HST also. If you are looking for some 180gr, look at sgammo.com or palmettostatearmory.com.

granitemonkey
08-08-2010, 19:47
Ill take the HST's anyway I can get them Heavy and Slow or Light and Fast:supergrin:

BOGE
08-08-2010, 22:12
Post some REAL World results with HST and I`ll listen. Until then I carry Fed. BPLE.

BurkGlocker
08-08-2010, 22:32
I definately have to agree with you ABNAK. The heavy for caliber HSTs definately open up quite nicely. I tried some 165 and 135 grain HSTs in .40 cal, and they just didnt expand as much as the 180's did. I still have some of each, but the 180's are still my favorite load in my G22...

Burk

ABNAK
08-09-2010, 04:21
Post some REAL World results with HST and I`ll listen. Until then I carry Fed. BPLE.

9BPLE is no doubt an excellent round with an equally outstanding record over many years. The HST phenomena is *relatively* new compared to the BPLE. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I would assume there aren't an awful lot of agencies using it, right? Anyone know of any off hand?

My point was that for the first time I can count myself among the "slow and heavy" crowd, albeit in a very specific ammo category.

Ak.Hiker
08-09-2010, 22:40
I have run the 230 HST +P in my Glock 36. They are a hot load that is for sure.

Drew78
08-10-2010, 07:37
9BPLE is no doubt an excellent round with an equally outstanding record over many years. The HST phenomena is *relatively* new compared to the BPLE. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I would assume there aren't an awful lot of agencies using it, right? Anyone know of any off hand?

My point was that for the first time I can count myself among the "slow and heavy" crowd, albeit in a very specific ammo category.


I did some research on OIS with the 147 gr HST a while ago... I have not seen physical documentation on it, but have heard on several different boards that the 147 HST is issued to a number of depts and that they have had VERY good results with the load to date...

-Drew

btw....that is my carry load too...

DRT
08-10-2010, 18:38
Post some REAL World results with HST and I`ll listen. Until then I carry Fed. BPLE.

Per DocGKR at m4carbine.net

"FWIW, the HST is currently being used here--it is performing as well or perhaps slightly better in OIS incidents than the Ranger-T that was issued for the previous decade... "

This is a pretty good endorsement from one of the most knowledgeable professionals in the business. Load up with heavy-for-the-caliber HSTs (or Ranger Tseries) and you are good-to-go.

DRT
08-10-2010, 18:42
I definately have to agree with you ABNAK. The heavy for caliber HSTs definately open up quite nicely. I tried some 165 and 135 grain HSTs in .40 cal, and they just didnt expand as much as the 180's did. I still have some of each, but the 180's are still my favorite load in my G22...

Burk

This is my experience also......that's a 180gr .40 HST on top of a quarter in my avatar. It also penetrated sheet steel and solid wood as well as a bonded gold dot in my informal testing. All HSTs stayed together and maintained bullet integrity.

Not only do the heavy versions of HST open larger and more robustly, they also do better than their lighter counterparts through glass and most other barriers.

SDGlock23
08-10-2010, 18:43
It doesn't get much better than 180gr HST in a .40. I love it in the .45 and 9mm too!

vanilla_gorilla
08-10-2010, 23:03
I did some research on OIS with the 147 gr HST a while ago... I have not seen physical documentation on it, but have heard on several different boards that the 147 HST is issued to a number of depts and that they have had VERY good results with the load to date...

-Drew

btw....that is my carry load too...

Mine, too. I need to get more, though. :upeyes:

striker6126
08-10-2010, 23:25
Post some REAL World results with HST and I`ll listen. Until then I carry Fed. BPLE.

While I can not produce documentation , I know of 1 OIS using 165gr hst and it produced a 1 shot stop. The officer fired 3 rounds but only got 1 hit. The suspect expired before the ambulance arrived less than 3 mins later.

dreis454
08-11-2010, 09:09
I can't find any of this HST anywhere. I'd like to try some in my .45s but haven't seen a box for sale yet,either local or on the net.

kymarkh
08-11-2010, 09:16
I've put 150 147 grain HST's thru my G26 and they are just as accurate and controllable as my standard carry load of 124 grain Gold Dots. I carry either of these loads based on availablility and feel well armed with either.

cadillacguns
08-11-2010, 13:48
I was visiting Ft. Knox KY over the weekend and found Federal 180 gr HST in a white box, 50 rds for about $25, only difference from other boxes of HST I have is the brass casing instead of the nickle casings of other earlier boxes I have. Did they change the case metal? Or is this LEO over run contract ammo sold at Federal Military bases? They (PX) had cases of it.

JBP55
08-11-2010, 14:54
I was visiting Ft. Knox KY over the weekend and found Federal 180 gr HST in a white box, 50 rds for about $25, only difference from other boxes of HST I have is the brass casing instead of the nickle casings of other earlier boxes I have. Did they change the case metal? Or is this LEO over run contract ammo sold at Federal Military bases? They (PX) had cases of it.

Sounds like #2.

BurkGlocker
08-11-2010, 17:49
I was visiting Ft. Knox KY over the weekend and found Federal 180 gr HST in a white box, 50 rds for about $25, only difference from other boxes of HST I have is the brass casing instead of the nickle casings of other earlier boxes I have. Did they change the case metal? Or is this LEO over run contract ammo sold at Federal Military bases? They (PX) had cases of it.


I bought some of these when I was at Cabelas in Ft. Worth at $22 a box. I noticed that the skives on the side of the bullet were longer and that the hollow point was only slightly deeper. When I fired them into gelatin, I had more than half of them shed one petal, but the overall expansion diameter was larger than the nickel plated premium packaged stuff.

Here are some expanded 180 grain HST from the premium packaging:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/wharsmahhummer/20-01-10_2043.jpg

Here are some HSTs fom the 'white box' packaging:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/wharsmahhummer/20-01-10_2042.jpg

It seemed there was some quality issues with the white box stuff, but honestly, I wouldnt mind finding some more of it. Cheap, only lost one petal, and still penetrated straight... heck yeah I'd use it...

Burk

TheGrimReaper
08-11-2010, 18:34
I too am very fond of the HST, I just wish you could find it easier!!!

cadillacguns
08-12-2010, 07:04
Yep your right, nickle cased older stuff I have is marked P40HST1, generic white boxed stuff I got at Ft. Knox is marked XM40HC. Brass cased and the petal serations are deeper and run to the top of the brass case. I will fire a box today for accuracy, and if I like what I see load up a G-22 with it by the nightstand. Funny first round I took outa the box and held between thumb and forefinger I noticed how sharp the petals were at the cone mouth of the hollowpoint.

JBP55
08-12-2010, 09:28
Yep your right, nickle cased older stuff I have is marked P40HST1, generic white boxed stuff I got at Ft. Knox is marked XM40HC. Brass cased and the petal serations are deeper and run to the top of the brass case. I will fire a box today for accuracy, and if I like what I see load up a G-22 with it by the nightstand. Funny first round I took outa the box and held between thumb and forefinger I noticed how sharp the petals were at the cone mouth of the hollowpoint.

The X should indicate this ammunition did not meet LEO QC and is sold as such. That is why the price is lower than normal.

BurkGlocker
08-12-2010, 11:17
I wished I coud find more of the white box stuff. I found it one website, but they are charging more for the white box stuff than they are for the premium packaged fodder. I call BS on that..

Burk

NAC
08-12-2010, 15:49
The HST phenomena is *relatively* new compared to the BPLE. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I would assume there aren't an awful lot of agencies using it, right? Anyone know of any off hand?

My point was that for the first time I can count myself among the "slow and heavy" crowd, albeit in a very specific ammo category.

Yup, CBP Border Patrol is using the 155gr HST with very good results.

JBP55
08-12-2010, 18:27
Yup, CBP Border Patrol is using the 155gr HST with very good results.

Their "targets" are light.

Snowman92D
08-14-2010, 07:15
Yup, CBP Border Patrol is using the 155gr HST with very good results.

The Border Patrol is in the process of transitioning to a 180-grain jhp load as their issue .40 caliber ammo. The load they'll be using is the Federal XM40HC that people are seeing difference places. It's loaded with a 180-grain HST bullet. It's over-run from a U.S. gov't contract. The Border Patrol's extra-hot 155-grain load, while very effective, is harder for PC trainees to qualify with, and is hard on their pistols.

The main thing with the Border Patrol is that they're prepping to bid on new .40 S&W service pistols. This time around they're hoping to get Uncle Sugar to buy two pistols for each agent. A full-size weapon for duty use, and a sub-compact for BUG/off-duty use. That's a lot of jingle, so you can figure that their money will go farther if they buy Glocks. However, Glock will not warrant their pistols with the USBP's current 155-grain ammo. So, the BP is willing to use a different bullet and load if it'll facilitate their getting two pistols for each agent.

San Diego (City) PD uses HST's in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. Portland PD uses 147/9mm HST's. Everything I've heard is that the HST's expand reliably and do their part if you do yours.

BOGE
08-14-2010, 08:41
Deleted.

Snowman92D
08-14-2010, 15:53
BOGE...pm enroute.

Jeepnik
08-14-2010, 16:26
Post some REAL World results with HST and I`ll listen. Until then I carry Fed. BPLE.

Yesterday, and this critter was alot more likely to inflict injury than most people you'll ever meet.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Jeepnik/KANNANPCH8-13-10-4.jpg

Though truthfully, just about any centerfire round would have worked had I actually hit the darned thing. But that big ole .45 acp 230 gr bullet hit close enough to bark it.

BOGE
08-14-2010, 16:49
Snowman92D, thanks for the PM & I deleted my post. :wavey:

ABNAK
08-14-2010, 16:56
Yup, CBP Border Patrol is using the 155gr HST with very good results.

Since they've used .40's hasn't the Border Patrol always used a 155gr loading of one sort or another?

Snowman92D
08-14-2010, 19:32
Correct. The BP tested different calibers and loads out to 100 yards and a bit beyond and the .40 S&W 155-grain load was the best flat-shooting load available. (This was before the .357 Sig came out.) Their emphasis was finding something that was as effective as their previous .357 magnum ammo, and shot flat, so agents being sniped at from a distance (like from across the river) could suppress the incoming fire pretty much POA/POI.

NAC
08-14-2010, 19:33
The Border Patrol is in the process of transitioning to a 180-grain jhp load as their issue .40 caliber ammo. The load they'll be using is the Federal XM40HC that people are seeing difference places. It's loaded with a 180-grain HST bullet. It's over-run from a U.S. gov't contract. The Border Patrol's extra-hot 155-grain load, while very effective, is harder for PC trainees to qualify with, and is hard on their pistols.

The main thing with the Border Patrol is that they're prepping to bid on new .40 S&W service pistols. This time around they're hoping to get Uncle Sugar to buy two pistols for each agent. A full-size weapon for duty use, and a sub-compact for BUG/off-duty use. That's a lot of jingle, so you can figure that their money will go farther if they buy Glocks. However, Glock will not warrant their pistols with the USBP's current 155-grain ammo. So, the BP is willing to use a different bullet and load if it'll facilitate their getting two pistols for each agent.

San Diego (City) PD uses HST's in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. Portland PD uses 147/9mm HST's. Everything I've heard is that the HST's expand reliably and do their part if you do yours.

Now that's some inside info I didn't know! I shot my buddies issued P2000 last week with 155gr HST. I personally didn't find it offensive recoil wise. But I could see where trainees without firearms experience would find it tough.

JBP55
08-14-2010, 20:15
Correct. The BP tested different calibers and loads out to 100 yards and a bit beyond and the .40 S&W 155-grain load was the best flat-shooting load available. (This was before the .357 Sig came out.) Their emphasis was finding something that was as effective as their previous .357 magnum ammo, and shot flat, so agents being sniped at from a distance (like from across the river) could suppress the incoming fire pretty much POA/POI.

Word is they are considering the Sig P250 for their new duty gun.

JBP55
08-14-2010, 20:21
Correct. The BP tested different calibers and loads out to 100 yards and a bit beyond and the .40 S&W 155-grain load was the best flat-shooting load available. (This was before the .357 Sig came out.) Their emphasis was finding something that was as effective as their previous .357 magnum ammo, and shot flat, so agents being sniped at from a distance (like from across the river) could suppress the incoming fire pretty much POA/POI.



HST .40 ammunition drop at 100 yards.
155gr. 8.9"
165gr. 9.1"
180gr. 11.4"

HST .357S
125gr. 6.0"

Snowman92D
08-15-2010, 08:35
Thanks, JB. Interesting to see that.

srggator
08-15-2010, 21:24
I love the HST round also! I could only get a hold of the +P 230gr. for my G30 and G21 but they both eat it up and spit it out great!

The only negative is the flash is pretty big, but with +P I expected it.

New York Hunter
08-16-2010, 00:56
I use 165 gr. HST's in my G22 and G27, and 230 gr. HST's in my SW1911. All three pistols function 100% and shoot very well with them. I haven't tried the 180 gr. in 40 S&W yet.

ColdShot
08-16-2010, 04:59
dont leave home without them

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/excelerater/PIC_0079.jpg

ABNAK
08-16-2010, 06:35
Word is they are considering the Sig P250 for their new duty gun.

Got a link? Very interesting......

Daryl in Az
08-16-2010, 10:25
The Border Patrol is in the process of transitioning to a 180-grain jhp load as their issue .40 caliber ammo. The load they'll be using is the Federal XM40HC that people are seeing difference places. It's loaded with a 180-grain HST bullet. It's over-run from a U.S. gov't contract. The Border Patrol's extra-hot 155-grain load, while very effective, is harder for PC trainees to qualify with, and is hard on their pistols.

The main thing with the Border Patrol is that they're prepping to bid on new .40 S&W service pistols. This time around they're hoping to get Uncle Sugar to buy two pistols for each agent. A full-size weapon for duty use, and a sub-compact for BUG/off-duty use. That's a lot of jingle, so you can figure that their money will go farther if they buy Glocks. However, Glock will not warrant their pistols with the USBP's current 155-grain ammo. So, the BP is willing to use a different bullet and load if it'll facilitate their getting two pistols for each agent.


That's definitely some intersting information...on several levels, for me.

I was aware that they're planning a switch to 180 grain ammo, but the "why's" were never really mentioned. Purely speculation, but suggestions were made about possible better performance.

From discussions with local BP officers, these guys REALLY like their H&K's. For the most part, Glocks are seen as somewhat inferior by this agency (at least around here). I doubt any of them I've talked with would willingly trade their well-used H&K for 2 brand new Glocks. They would not be happy with this move at all.

I was not aware that Glock would not waranty their .40 caliber handguns with 155 grain HST ammo. If true, that's a bit disappointing. This ammo is rated at something like 1050 fps, which doesn't sound all that "hot" to me. If true, it's a bit dissappointing.

I've shot the 155 gr HST ammo from my G23, and I like it.

Daryl

Glock21sf-miami
08-16-2010, 13:14
HSTs are what I have in my CCW G36, G30 and G21.
The first round is the regular flavor and then +Ps in the mag. I figured that it would facilitate a follow up shot if it is needed.

cowboy1964
08-20-2010, 23:31
San Diego (City) PD uses HST's in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. Portland PD uses 147/9mm HST's.

Anyone know what 9mm pistol the SD PD and Portland PD issues?

DRT
08-21-2010, 05:25
The heavier, dual recoil spring setup in the gen4 g22 should lower slide velocity which should help with reduce any potential battering with hotter ammo while also improving reliability with weapon-mounted lights.

DonGlock26
08-21-2010, 14:27
I'm issued 230gr+P HST for my P220R. We haven't field"tested" it yet.

dakrat
08-21-2010, 15:10
HSTs are great bullets! I have seen a 45 ACP HST expanded to more than 1 inch diameter! amazing stuff.

bear62
08-21-2010, 18:05
I bought some of these when I was at Cabelas in Ft. Worth at $22 a box. I noticed that the skives on the side of the bullet were longer and that the hollow point was only slightly deeper. When I fired them into gelatin, I had more than half of them shed one petal, but the overall expansion diameter was larger than the nickel plated premium packaged stuff.

Here are some expanded 180 grain HST from the premium packaging:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/wharsmahhummer/20-01-10_2043.jpg

Here are some HSTs fom the 'white box' packaging:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/wharsmahhummer/20-01-10_2042.jpg

It seemed there was some quality issues with the white box stuff, but honestly, I wouldnt mind finding some more of it. Cheap, only lost one petal, and still penetrated straight... heck yeah I'd use it...

Burk
Burk, thanks for the great pictures......

acro
09-01-2010, 09:55
Does anyone know where to find the 9mm hst ?
Thanks
:crying:

BurkGlocker
09-01-2010, 10:10
Does anyone know where to find the 9mm hst ?
Thanks
:crying:


www.tds-us.com (http://www.tds-us.com)
www.mahsupplies.com (http://www.mahsupplies.com)

This is where I usually got them, but...
They have 'em on back order sorry...

Burk

glock031
09-01-2010, 10:45
Does anyone know where to find the 9mm hst ?
Thanks
:crying:

Any flavor you desire.......

http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.php?seller=KylesGunshop&navt1=50216

saltydog452
09-01-2010, 13:39
If scarcity is a measure of popularity, the Std Vel 230 HST is popular with someone.

I ordered a substantial stash of the stuff a couple of months ago. Placed on back order and was told that agency contracts had priority. Wait time is about 10-14 months, if then.

The price was 'right' though. Now, if I can just get it. The Commanders are getting hungry. I am not gonna pay scalper prices. We'll see.

salty

malleable
09-01-2010, 19:25
Any flavor you desire.......

http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.php?seller=KylesGunshop&navt1=50216

You would have to be insane to pay those prices!

BurkGlocker
09-01-2010, 19:54
You would have to be insane to pay those prices!


Thats the only reason I didnt list Kyle's....

Burk

acro
09-01-2010, 20:24
Damn.....
Guess I'll stick with the Winchester "RA9T".
What do you all think?
Thanks..

cowboy1964
09-01-2010, 20:46
You would have to be insane to pay those prices!

Those prices aren't THAT bad. Still way cheaper than any 20 round box of JHPs. Besides at least Kyle's has them in stock.

BOGE
09-01-2010, 21:07
You would have to be insane to pay those prices!

Thats the only reason I didnt list Kyle's....

Burk

I think the day of $20 for 50 ct. boxes is gone forever, boys. Get used to it. :wavey:

glock031
09-01-2010, 23:34
You would have to be insane to pay those prices!

Now that you felt the need to make this statement, back it up and post a link that has in stock and sells hst 124+p and hst 147+p for a better price....And have a nice day sir.

thegriz18
09-02-2010, 00:20
HST and Enhanced Ranger T Series = the same darn thing

glock031
09-02-2010, 02:08
HST and Enhanced Ranger T Series = the same darn thing

And about the same darn price comparing the two, standard to standard and +p to +p. Different rounds tho.

saltydog452
09-02-2010, 08:22
HST and Enhanced Ranger T Series = the same darn thing

I don't know. Maybe. I was under the impression that Ranger was a Winchester trademark while HST belonged to Federal.

ATK is selling all they can make. Its going somewhere.

salty

Snowman92D
09-02-2010, 09:44
HST and Enhanced Ranger T Series = the same darn thing

In gell-o tests, maybe.

granitemonkey
09-07-2010, 15:06
Ive been finding RA9T locally for $19.99 a box