A man wonders, is it just strength?

[ithaca_deerslayer]

I wonder if the difficulties I've seen that some to many women have in shooting is just a strength issue. So, I started this thread, in this forum :)

-- hard to rack a slide back, hard to reach and engage the slidelock button.
-- hard to hold a large and heavy handgun out in front of them for long.
-- not only don't like recoil in a small handgun, but will avoid carrying/purchasing the gun because of it.
-- don't like to hold a heavy rifle.
-- won't shoot a gun much in the .308 to .30-06 class, because of the recoil.

Stuff like that.

My philosophical view is that for pound for pound of muscle, women are just as strong as men. The average man, however, is bigger and likely has more muscle. But there is a lot of overlap, smaller men compared to larger women. And women, mentally, are just as capable as men.

So, if a woman seems to have trouble in the areas such as I listed above, is it because of the body size and muscle issue?

Or, is it more due to how they were raised? Were the guys I know just raised to take recoil into their shoulder and smile? Yet perhaps a woman was raised to feel that same recoil, yell at her husband about it, and avoid the gun in the future?

Since women have babies, I can't believe they aren't tough. Of course they are tough. They are overworked in most households while the men sit on their butt doing nothing and drinking beer.

So when it comes to guns, why does it seem harder for me to teach them to lock a slide open or accept the recoil of a .30-06? Tell me that over time they can do it?

Heck, I know my wife became good with her lightweight .38 snubbie. Probably because she wanted to. Maybe it is just training. Maybe more men have more experience with guns, to start out with, and from a younger age. Can I expect, in time, that my wife will like the recoil of my .30-06?

[Yellowfin]

It's purely a matter of wanting to or not. Women can lift a 40-50 lb kid when they want to and think nothing of it, but when they don't want to lift something 2-3 lbs it's as if it weighed 3000. Waxing hurts like hell (so they tell me) but that doesn't bother them because they want to do it, but when they're not the one getting themselves into shooting a .30-06 somehow that's unbearable. Some are simply not taught to not complain and to not give up regardless of what it is they're doing, to the extent that to us it seems as if they were proactively taught to complain and taught to give up.

In all fairness, it's like the difference between buying life insurance and buying a car. There's vastly less paperwork and cost in buying the former, but it seems like a million dollars and a phonebook to fill out all written in Japanese purely because it's not as interesting as getting a car. You WANT the car. There's something in it for YOU, NOW.

[Mrs.Cicero]

I wonder if the difficulties I've seen that some to many women have in shooting is just a strength issue. So, I started this thread, in this forum :)

-- hard to rack a slide back, hard to reach and engage the slidelock button.
-- hard to hold a large and heavy handgun out in front of them for long.
-- not only don't like recoil in a small handgun, but will avoid carrying/purchasing the gun because of it.
-- don't like to hold a heavy rifle.
-- won't shoot a gun much in the .308 to .30-06 class, because of the recoil.



I don't think it's a strength issue.

The slide issue is mostly women trying to pinch the top of the slide in a thumb/index finger grip and pull it back with their weak hand. If the first time they picked up a semi-auto, someone showed them how to reach over the top with their weak hand and shove the gun forward with their strong hand, they would have no problem and never develop that "it's too hard for me" mindset.

Problems using the slide lock are either because the grip is too fat, and with shorter fingers/smaller hands, it's too far to reach... or no one has shown them how to flip the gun in their hand in order to reach the slide lock. I flip my HK. I don't have to flip my M&P. Flipping back and forth just takes practice, generally while watching tv (and not the pistol). The other problem is some pistols (Glocks in particular) have nasty, short, sharp slidelocks that just hurt fingers that aren't calloused.

I'm not fond of holding my pistol out in front of me - but I practice that in case I have to do it. I wouldn't start a beginner out doing it - I want them to practice drawing and firing (and reholstering without looking), and if you do that between every shot, or doubletap, you aren't holding it out there long enough to hurt. Then you point out the possibility of holding someone at gunpoint the first time they complain...:supergrin:

I don't "like" recoil. There are a few guns out there that just make my wrist ache, and they aren't particularly large caliber. Light revolvers bother me like that - it's just my body mechanics and their grip design. XDs feel good in my hand 'til I shoot them - then they all recoil DIAGONALLY - costing me major time to get back on target. Just gotta try a bunch of guns til you find the right one. The "happy medium" is heavy enough to damp recoil, while still being light/small enough to carry. It hasn't been invented yet.:rofl:

Heavy rifles... not as bad offhand with proper sling use (hasty sling). Painful without it, and 2 back surgeries later, I want my sling or I'm going prone. (Even then I want my loop...)
Sometimes the problem isn't the actual weight - it's the length - THE STOCK IS TOO LONG (forcing her to reach waaaay far forward) and the barrel is, too. Youth stocks and carbine barrels are a lot more fun, 'cause they hurt less to hold. I only want weight when shooting .30 cals, to absorb the recoil a bit - I have a Featherweight .308 - great for carrying all day, but I don't really want to shoot it more than a dozen times (it's nice for hunting, but I don't plink with it). I plink with a Ruger 10-22, or an AR in .223. Mr.C has a Rem 700 in .308 -it's so heavy I can't shoot it offhand - but I love it benched or prone - there's hardly more recoil than my ARs. We have a .270 that kicks more.

I believe that some of the "recoil issue" is man-made - that is, somebody thought it'd be funny to let her shoot something without showing her how to get into a good solid position first. Or told her recoil was hard to handle and she believed it without testing it - (sorry, but if I can shoot a .454 Casul accurately - and I weigh 127# - recoil is a mind game, not a physical problem).

And those are my opinions, worth what you paid for them...

Mrs.Cicero:wavey:

[Bilbo Bagins]

I think recoil has to do with overall size of the person, and on average guys are usually bigger.

When I was in LE, shorter skinny guys would complain about recoil with 12 gauge qualification. The only women who would never complain about the recoil and who would score well was the big Amazon girls we had.

Regardless if you are a boy or a girl, when your +180lb and over 5'10 your not going to feel as much recoil as someone who is under 150lb and thin (meaning not a lot of shoulder padding).

[ithaca_deerslayer]

I don't think it's a strength issue.

The slide issue is mostly women trying to pinch the top of the slide in a thumb/index finger grip and pull it back with their weak hand. If the first time they picked up a semi-auto, someone showed them how to reach over the top with their weak hand and shove the gun forward with their strong hand, they would have no problem and never develop that "it's too hard for me" mindset.

You say it isn't a strength issue, but then you mention some things that suspiciously sound like strength issues :)

But, perhaps more importantly, you seem to be saying that strength issues can be overcome by technique.

Maybe many guys, including myself, don't put much thought into the technique of some moves, because we just have the strength to do it. Whether the slide goes back, or the gun goes forward, doesn't matter to us. Doesn't matter if we grip with the fingers (like a sling shot) or with the palm over the top, because we have strength.

And, as you point out, we are usually larger, so we can reach stuff easier. And I would add, have the strength to hold something a certain way, while we reach for it.

Well heck, it's about time being born a guy pays off :rofl:

[WWJGD]

My philosophical view is that for pound for pound of muscle, women are just as strong as men. The average man, however, is bigger and likely has more muscle. But there is a lot of overlap, smaller men compared to larger women. And women, mentally, are just as capable as men.


Women generally have a lot less muscle mass than men. We also have less upper-body strength in general (I lift weights regularly and am very strong "for a girl" and still don't come close to having the brute strength my BF does, who is the same height and doesn't work out).



Or, is it more due to how they were raised? Were the guys I know just raised to take recoil into their shoulder and smile? Yet perhaps a woman was raised to feel that same recoil, yell at her husband about it, and avoid the gun in the future?

Since women have babies, I can't believe they aren't tough. Of course they are tough. They are overworked in most households while the men sit on their butt doing nothing and drinking beer.


Well, some women are real wimps about physical pain. Yeah, we're built to have babies, so we should be tough, but most girls just aren't expected to be tough in other activities. Girls are generally coddled more than boys -- it wasn't the case for me, but I think it's true in general. Recoil doesn't generally bother me that much, even in a .308, but I know how to brace for it and to expect a sore shoulder.

I've gotten annoyed with some of my female friends (and my MOM), when I've tried to teach them to shoot. I spend a lot of time on safety and basics before we even go to the range. My mom and another very petite friend of mine both had trouble racking the slide, even though I had taught them the push/pull technique and had them practice with an unloaded gun beforehand. It may be more psychological weakness in that case. Both of these women have very passive and sensitive personalities. I think they were just nervous and overwhelmed in the range environment (noise, loaded gun, people watching, etc.). Strength is an issue for sure, but good training can accommodate for it.

I think Mrs. Cicero made some great points about racking the slide (pushing and pulling) and learning good stance before shooting.

[PATRICE]

.....

[sawgrass]

Desire
Training
Strength

Does your wife want to shoot heavier guns?
You admit you overlook technique because of your strength, how does
this affect your teaching ability?
Does she have some psychical limitation that would truely prohibit
her from shooting larger calibers?

You need to ask yourself these questions.

[PATRICE]

.....

[Misty02]

Prior to buying my first gun I made everyone in the house read corneredcat.com. That included my grandson who at the time had just turned 9 years old. He is neither small nor weak but he is supper skinny. My G19 was brand new when I brought it home and I was having great difficulties racking the slide. It was not that hard at the range with the used one, I was about to give up. My son was able to do it with ease, not fair since is into body building and has lots of upper body strength. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I was determined in making certain everyone in the house learned how to check the pistol and all the safety rules inside and out. My grandson didn’t get to go to the range until after his 10th birthday but he too was required to learn the basics at home (unloaded, of course). It was when I saw him rack the slide with absolutely no effort that I realized it was technique and not strength. Even my son’s jaw dropped when he saw him do it (we were all new to firearms at the time). Obviously, he grasped the information in the website a lot better than we did. After observing him a couple of times I was able to do it with no effort too.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
To engage the slide-lock button I do have to reposition my hands, my thumb won’t reach if the hand is around the grip.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I actually prefer some recoil. I get bored quickly shooting .22s, I can’t feel a thing! When I shot the Magnum 500 (long barrel) had my son not been standing behind me I would have landed flat on my back. I had no problem with my hand or arm rising, I was expecting one heck of a kick; my hands, arms and shoulders were prepared. In spite improving my stance on the subsequent shots, someone still had to stand behind me. It was a rental and we had a blast! Now, with the pistol grip Persuader 12g shot gun, it was a different story. I had bought the largest 00 Buck that would fit; I took a few shots and put it down. I said nothing but the web between my thumb and index was throbbing. The following day the entire area (back and front) was black & blue and I couldn’t hold a pen to write without pain. I now buy low recoil 2 3/4 shells, it’s less painful.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I admit it; I don’t like to hold a heavy riffle free-hand for longer than a few shots, if I can at least rest my elbow on something I can last longer. I’ve never shot a .30-06 so I have no clue how I would do with that one. With the exception of .22LR, 5.56 and 7.62x39 none of the riffles I’ve shot are ours and I can’t even remember the calibers. I have not had issues with the recoil yet, but that could be because I haven’t handled the ones that would hurt most.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I have a long way to go still and plan to enjoy every second of it! :)<o:p></o:p>

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[Misty02]

Desire
Training
Strength

Does your wife want to shoot heavier guns?
You admit you overlook technique because of your strength, how does this affect your teaching ability?
Does she have some psychical limitation that would truely prohibit her from shooting larger calibers?

You need to ask yourself these questions.

It does affect it; the men that tried to teach me to rack the slide used physical strength. Since they have it there is no need to compensate for lack of it. I should be ashamed to admit it, but it was my skinny 9 year old grandson that really taught me to rack the slide without exerting any strength to accomplish it. Technique and speed, that is all it took. It was the same way I taught my daughter.
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[sawgrass]

Three men were hiking through a forest...


when they came upon a large raging, violent river.

Needing to get to the other side, the first man prayed God, please give me the strength to cross the river.

Poof!!!

God gave him big arms and strong legs...

and he was able to swim across in about 2 hours,

having almost drowned twice.

After witnessing that, the second man prayed:

'God, please give me strength and the tools to cross the river'

Poof!!!

God gave him a rowboat and strong arms and strong legs...


and he was able to row across

in about an hour

after almost capsizing once.

Seeing what happened to the first two men,

the third man prayed:

'God, please give me the strength, the tools

and the intelligence to cross the river'

Poof!!!

HE WAS TURNED INTO A WOMAN!!!

She checked the map, hiked one hundred yards upstream...


and walked across the bridge !:rofl::supergrin:

For some reason this thread made me think of this old joke.:tongueout::rofl:

[janice6]

Three men were hiking through a forest...


when they came upon a large raging, violent river.

Needing to get to the other side, the first man prayed God, please give me the strength to cross the river.

Poof!!!

God gave him big arms and strong legs...

and he was able to swim across in about 2 hours,

having almost drowned twice.

After witnessing that, the second man prayed:

'God, please give me strength and the tools to cross the river'

Poof!!!

God gave him a rowboat and strong arms and strong legs...


and he was able to row across

in about an hour

after almost capsizing once.

Seeing what happened to the first two men,

the third man prayed:

'God, please give me the strength, the tools

and the intelligence to cross the river'

Poof!!!

HE WAS TURNED INTO A WOMAN!!!

She checked the map, hiked one hundred yards upstream...


and walked across the bridge !:rofl::supergrin:

For some reason this thread made me think of this old joke.:tongueout::rofl:



That's funny!

[ExxoticOne]

I am certain you're not gonna like what I have to say but I am getting too many PM's that I had to come back and comment.

To me, this initial post is so far out, off-base, and flipping weird that it strains belief. Ithica...do you know anything about physiology? Well...you don't really have to just look at your own hands and body compared to that of a woman. Your "philosophical" views on strength are flat out bunk. Recoil and childbirth are comparable on the toughness scale? WHAT?

Perhaps it's harder for you to "teach" them because you are not really qualified to do so. Why does your wife, in your words, "have to" like the recoil? Are you encouraging women to protect themselves or training them to become combat soldiers?

[sawgrass]

That's funny!

Hi janice6:wavey:, don't forget you and your wife or daughter are still invited to
shoot as my guest at OGC.

(sorry about the thread drift)

[PATRICE]

.....

[sawgrass]

I like that story...it really is the 1st time I've heard it. And yes, SG--you interpreted my pm correctly. I'm also inclined to think that what worked then for homo sapiens sapiens against 0- & 4-legged brutes...perhaps it can do the same today, to save us from those 2-legged monsters who would destroy us for reasons other than simple sustenance --Patrice
:steamed: :50cal:

whew...I hope so. I'm getting too old to run.

EO nice post.:supergrin:

[ExxoticOne]

EO nice post.:supergrin:

It was tempered heavily with much restraint.

More women would participate in male dominated activities if men would just STHU and listen; understand that we are NOT men, don't want to BE men, aren't trying to ACT like men.

I don't give a darn how much recoil a man can take, how far he can hit a golf ball, how fast he can ride a motorcycle, etc. WHY? Because it doesn't transfer over to my learning curve, aptitude, goals or physical abilities. I shouldn't have to like "it" the way a man does; whatever "it" is: recoil, etc. :upeyes:

[PATRICE]

.....

[sawgrass]

It was tempered heavily with much restraint.

More women would participate in male dominated activities if men would just STHU and listen; understand that we are NOT men, don't want to BE men, aren't trying to ACT like men.

I don't give a darn how much recoil a man can take, how far he can hit a golf ball, how fast he can ride a motorcycle, etc. WHY? Because it doesn't transfer over to my learning curve, aptitude, goals or physical abilities. I shouldn't have to like "it" the way a man does; whatever "it" is: recoil, etc. :upeyes:


There it it. We have a standing joke about this in our house.
"Just another way to go, just another way to ..."

[ExxoticOne]

Still carrying your blade?

Well...obviously I lack the hand strength to decapitate someone in one fell swoop but I can still slice clean through a femoral artery. Then of course, there's the whole bleeding out issue which I might not have the intestinal fortitude to watch due to some dark issues during my upbringing. It's by the grace of God I can even manage to butter my bread with a knife.

Fear not. I'm waiting on my Jedi Master to come and show me how to properly disembowel my prey and efficiently butter my bread...

assuming of course, that I'm trainable to his standard.

[PATRICE]

.....

[Lone_Wolfe]

It was tempered heavily with much restraint.

More women would participate in male dominated activities if men would just STHU and listen; understand that we are NOT men, don't want to BE men, aren't trying to ACT like men.

I don't give a darn how much recoil a man can take, how far he can hit a golf ball, how fast he can ride a motorcycle, etc. WHY? Because it doesn't transfer over to my learning curve, aptitude, goals or physical abilities. I shouldn't have to like "it" the way a man does; whatever "it" is: recoil, etc. :upeyes:

:agree: This pretty well sums up my thoughts here.

[Misty02]

Three men were hiking through a forest...


when they came upon a large raging, violent river.

Needing to get to the other side, the first man prayed God, please give me the strength to cross the river.

Poof!!!

God gave him big arms and strong legs...

and he was able to swim across in about 2 hours,

having almost drowned twice.

After witnessing that, the second man prayed:

'God, please give me strength and the tools to cross the river'

Poof!!!

God gave him a rowboat and strong arms and strong legs...


and he was able to row across

in about an hour

after almost capsizing once.

Seeing what happened to the first two men,

the third man prayed:

'God, please give me the strength, the tools

and the intelligence to cross the river'

Poof!!!

HE WAS TURNED INTO A WOMAN!!!

She checked the map, hiked one hundred yards upstream...


and walked across the bridge !:rofl::supergrin:

For some reason this thread made me think of this old joke.:tongueout::rofl:


This is too funny! As soon as the men in my house wake up I’m telling them this one! :supergrin:

.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Misty02]

It was tempered heavily with much restraint.

More women would participate in male dominated activities if men would just STHU and listen; understand that we are NOT men, don't want to BE men, aren't trying to ACT like men.

I don't give a darn how much recoil a man can take, how far he can hit a golf ball, how fast he can ride a motorcycle, etc. WHY? Because it doesn't transfer over to my learning curve, aptitude, goals or physical abilities. I shouldn't have to like "it" the way a man does; whatever "it" is: recoil, etc. :upeyes:

I agree with this. There are also some activities that I have absolutely no interest in; hunting is one of them. If I had to hunt to feed my family it would be a different story, hunting for fun is just not something I personally enjoy.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I have a tiny 2 shot American Derringer .357 magnum, it was a gift. I fired multiple shots with it once. We take it to the range whenever we have have guest, just for kicks. Their face when they fire that little monster is priceless! You won’t find me firing that thing again unless someone’s life truly depended on it. The grip is wood and metal, saying it’s painful to shoot would be an understatement. I had forgotten about out little monster in the original response. :)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I still do like some recoil though, just not to the point where there is any pain involved. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Luckily, those that have taken on the challenge of teaching me are aware I’m a woman. They’ll warn me when something has too much recoil and let me be the judge if I want to give it a try or not. I’ll try just about anything once because I’m curious and want to know, if I don’t enjoy shooting it odds are I won’t try it again.<o:p></o:p>

.

[PATRICE]

.....

[Lone_Wolfe]

Hhmmm....You know, I'm thinking that we've been "trolled," and the guy who initiated this thread just came over here so he could get his semi-anonymous jollies by upsetting those who frequent the Women's Sub-Forum. If I'm correct, such perverse behavior on his part is certainly quite immature.

But, that's what trolls do.--Patrice

PATRICE when I first read the OP I thought it was kind of 'out there', so I didn't respond. Then I got a some PM's probably like the ones EO got, so I came back for another look. While I really don't think 'trolling' was the intention (and I may be wrong) I do think he needs to stop expecting his wife to like something just because he does and follow EO's and other's advice in here.

[Misty02]

PATRICE when I first read the OP I thought it was kind of 'out there', so I didn't respond. Then I got a some PM's probably like the ones EO got, so I came back for another look. While I really don't think 'trolling' was the intention (and I may be wrong) I do think he needs to stop expecting his wife to like something just because he does and follow EO's and other's advice in here.

All is possible. I can’t say I know many in the forum with the exception of handful that has a tendency to stand out from the crowd. If that was the case, I apologize for my participation; although I answered the inquiry to the best of my knowledge (which isn’t much at all).<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I usually just go by the new post list, “carry issues” being almost the only exception to that rule. <o:p></o:p>

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[Lone_Wolfe]

All is possible. I can’t say I know many in the forum with the exception of handful that has a tendency to stand out from the crowd. If that was the case, I apologize for my participation; although I answered the inquiry to the best of my knowledge (which isn’t much at all).<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I usually just go by the new post list, “carry issues” being almost the only exception to that rule. <o:p></o:p>

.

You don't owe an apology to anyone, especially not to me. You made some excellent points here that I hadn't even thought of when I used to shoot. Please stick around and keep contributing, I enjoy your posts and I'm sure I'm far from alone. :wavey:

[Misty02]

You don't owe an apology to anyone, especially not to me. You made some excellent points here that I hadn't even thought of when I used to shoot. Please stick around and keep contributing, I enjoy your posts and I'm sure I'm far from alone. :wavey:


Thank you. I’ll check this forum for new posts ever so often. :)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
It was in this very section that I learned one of my very first tips in firearm. It’s been nearly two years and I will never forget it. Whether she knows it or not, I owe FF Wife a lot! <o:p></o:p>

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[sawgrass]

Misty absolutely no apologies! I enjoyed hearing about your grandson.

I personally don't care about the OP's intention. Evidently he needed to
make himself feel better and he did in his second post. Interestingly enough
my partner just came home from the range and was tellling me that it was
like a bad B movie there today. Some guy who was trying to teach his wife
to shoot kept yelling at her and snatching the gun away from her. Another
man was yelling at his 14ish year old son to keep shooting, eventhough the
kid was saying that it hurts and he wanted to stop.:upeyes:

I bet they are just wiggly waiting for the next time.:whistling:

[Misty02]

Misty absolutely no apologies! I enjoyed hearing about your grandson.

I personally don't care about the OP's intention. Evidently he needed to
make himself feel better and he did in his second post. Interestingly enough
my partner just came home from the range and was tellling me that it was
like a bad B movie there today. Some guy who was trying to teach his wife
to shoot kept yelling at her and snatching the gun away from her. Another
man was yelling at his 14ish year old son to keep shooting, eventhough the
kid was saying that it hurts and he wanted to stop.:upeyes:

I bet they are just wiggly waiting for the next time.:whistling:

I’ve been a mom and a grandma long enough to know that you rarely get the desired results when you force people to do something. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
We had promised our grandson when we got our firearms that we would take him with us to the range on his 10th birthday. Sure enough, weeks before that he was reminding us of our promise. Prior to that he was allowed to handle any weapon in this house, all he had to do was ask and we made certain it was unloaded first. He learned quickly that you check every weapon yourself (even if you just saw grandma do it) before handling. By the way, I’m amazed with his retention skills; I had to read the 4 rules several times before being able to recite them verbatim, he could do so after the first time reading it.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Anyway, my son (his uncle) purchased a .22 Savage rifle which will belong to my grandson on his 18th birthday. For the time being he only has use rights when going to the range with us. We were certain he would like to try the pistols and everything else we had. He tried the .22 rifle and loved it! He was incredibly accurate with it from the first shot too! :) He then tried a couple of shots with the AR and put it down; he wanted nothing more to do with it. He was looking at my G19, before he picked it up I told him the recoil would be a tad stronger than the .22 rifle, he put it down and didn’t want to shoot it at all. I asked him, just once more to give it a try as he may enjoy it, he said he didn’t want to and that was the last time I asked. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
He has gone to the range with us twice since then, each time he only shoots the .22. I’m fine with that. When he’s ready he’ll ask us to let him try something else. If he never does, that is ok with us too. He knows it’s up to him. This isn’t like homework or shores, it’s not mandatory it’s just some time to spend together doing something we all consider to be fun.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As to the OP’s intention, I honestly don’t have the slightest clue. It is possible he was truly puzzled and just wanted a woman’s point of view, I don’t know. I have this thing set up so that if I ever start or respond to a thread it alerts me to new posts in subscribed threads, if he does check perhaps it would be the right thing to clarify any possible misunderstandings. I often suffer from serious “foot in mouth syndrome” (horrible and ugly illness, I tell you), if I become aware I did one of mine or believe there is a misunderstanding I like the opportunity to clarify and apologize. We’ll have to wait and see.<o:p></o:p>

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[PATRICE]

.....

[Misty02]

Hhmmm...Oh it doesn't matter what his intention was in his initial post or in his f/u reply to one of our long-time members. You belong, you're a part of the group, your contributions are esteemed. No apologies are warranted, at least not from your side of the fence. Now from him...when he comes back...then, perhaps we can get clarification as to his intent. This whole strength thing topic is very intriguing to me, at least in the abstract. Unfortunately for many of us...it pushes our buttons, especially if coming from a man. I think if a thread on this topic had been initiated by one of the ladies...much of the same ground would likely have been covered. But it's likely that the same information would have been discussed sans the rancor/umbridge that some of us experienced. You stay, you contribute. Again your part of the group, as much as any of us can be said to be.--Patrice

Thank you, Patrice. :wavey:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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I live in a house with 4 men at the moment, my husband, two sons and my grandson. I’m so seriously outnumbered that it would be a grave error to blindly go to the restroom at night without first checking, unless I want a rather rude awakening that is. :)<o:p></o:p>
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Truth be told, they are more sensitive to the feelings of others than I am. I’m not exactly known for being diplomatic when I perceive an offence or feel strongly that I’m in the right. I also have no problem admitting when I’m wrong or apologizing when I believe I may have offended someone.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Just a few weeks ago or so I had to apologize to a gentleman here for something I had done 8 months prior. I went back and re-read my posts to him; they were loaded with sarcasm and in very poor taste. Not something I realized at the time but it was quite obvious 8 months later. He was very gracious and accepted my past due apology. I’m thankful that he did.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I’ve made some mistakes and was allowed the opportunity to correct it. Maybe the OP is in the same boat, who knows? Time will tell. :)<o:p></o:p>

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[Lone_Wolfe]

Misty absolutely no apologies! I enjoyed hearing about your grandson.

I personally don't care about the OP's intention. Evidently he needed to
make himself feel better and he did in his second post. Interestingly enough
my partner just came home from the range and was tellling me that it was
like a bad B movie there today. Some guy who was trying to teach his wife
to shoot kept yelling at her and snatching the gun away from her. Another
man was yelling at his 14ish year old son to keep shooting, eventhough the
kid was saying that it hurts and he wanted to stop.:upeyes:

I bet they are just wiggly waiting for the next time.:whistling:

I like hearing about your Grandson too, Misty. :wavey:

Sawgrass, your post reminded me on something that happened when I was a shooting coach for a ladies group. Once a month we offered the introductory class, where the instructor went over (and over and over) gun safely and basics of handling and cleaning. Everyone in the group had to go through that part their first time with us. Then she would bring the newbies over to the firing line and us coaches would each take up to 4 ladies to the line and get them started shooting. Each of us coaches had an area that we specialized in. One coach did cross eye dominants, another took lefties, my specialty was nervous first time shooters. I’d always ask “Who’s never shot a gun before, and is nervous or afraid?” When the hands went up I’d bring them down and take them under my wing.

We’d all get set up on the firing line, the instructor would go back over the safety rules again and we’d take it from there. One day much like all the rest, I had my new shooters shooting paper plates at 7 yards and most get very good very quick. (That wasn’t my doing, all the ladies did well) After we finished and everyone was packing out one of my first timers walked over to where I was talking with the instructor and said “When I first started I was so scared I was shaking. Now I’m wiggling with excitement and can’t wait for next time!” She became a regular. :cool:

[Misty02]

My grandson is awesome (I sure am biased, am I not? :embarassed:) but where I have really experienced the biggest gain was with my two youngest ones, both boys. I had always enjoyed spending time with them, learning about how they felt about things, what their minds could be troubled by, how their day was, in general knowing about them. To an extent (once they got into the mid to late teens) it felt like pooling teeth, although possible that it was all in my head I got the impression at times that they perceived my questions as an intrusion. The youngest turned 21 in January and he actually asked me to go with him to get his CWL, he wanted to share that experience with me (have you any idea how that made me feel? Heck, I felt 10 feet tall and invincible!). I tried to be interested in things they liked before but honestly, I know nothing about cars and believe that faking interest just to be around them was not very convincing.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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For the past couple of years, since we starting shooting together, all that has changed. We finally found an activity we all enjoy, one that we all willingly participate in and look forward to. An hour or so at the range and then a couple of hours out for a bite to eat a couple of times a month has brought us closer than we ever were. Until not long ago it was weekly but between work and the cost associated with ammo for what we shoot it was becoming unpractical. The youngest has a tough schedule so he would go less often and it had to be on Sundays, he gets to go about once a month or so. For over a year the oldest and I met at the range every week on Thursdays, my partner in crime, as I called him as we giggled our way through exorbitant Wal-Mart ammo purchases and how we would explain it at home once the bill came. My husband knew about it, but it was still fun to go around plotting on how to get out of trouble.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Now the range trip is not even needed, they voluntarily come to tell me about what so and so did at work today, what I think about what the girlfriends said, should they take advantage about this opportunity or another. I have no words to properly express just how much things have changed and how that change has made me feel. Of course, knowing this much about them now, it’s hard to at times bite my tongue and not provide unsolicited advice that may turn them off from approaching me. If it is important enough I’ll intervene a little by asking questions in a way that lead them to the answer I wanted to give in the first place, I’ve had to learn a lot to control my foot in mouth syndrome, but it’s been worth it! <o:p></o:p>
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It’s been like I’ve made two new friends. Obviously, the flow of information is not the same from my side to them but I do share some information about my day and even get to ask their opinion about some appropriate things that may be bothering me and such. <o:p></o:p>
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Not because they are my kids but they are sure fun to hang around with. I hope they are having as much fun as I am. <o:p></o:p>
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I even had to take my “I don’t want anything to do with guns” daughter and her husband (both want to get a gun now, btw) to the range with us several times. Apparently I was spending too much time with the boys; she got wind of it and wanted in too. She’s my grandson’s Mom. There was a time in life when she and I didn’t see eye to eye and things were anything but smooth. I’m truly proud to say that she’s now among the most responsible and conscientious people I know. She is as opinionated as her mom and nearly as stubborn we’ve learned to work around that.<o:p></o:p>
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I don’t know what tomorrow will bring, but today I can honestly say that I’m on top of the world and I will enjoy every second of it.<o:p></o:p>
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Oh, and come this October she is going to make me a grandma for the third time! She’s having another little girl. I keep telling her that’s my revenge and it collects interest, I only had one girl, but she’ll have two. She laughs nervously about that one. :supergrin:

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[ithaca_deerslayer]

I am certain you're not gonna like what I have to say but I am getting too many PM's that I had to come back and comment.

To me, this initial post is so far out, off-base, and flipping weird that it strains belief. Ithica...do you know anything about physiology? Well...you don't really have to just look at your own hands and body compared to that of a woman. Your "philosophical" views on strength are flat out bunk. Recoil and childbirth are comparable on the toughness scale? WHAT?

Perhaps it's harder for you to "teach" them because you are not really qualified to do so. Why does your wife, in your words, "have to" like the recoil? Are you encouraging women to protect themselves or training them to become combat soldiers?

Just making sure, are you saying that if a man and a woman were the same size, and had the same mass of muscle, that the man would be stronger?

See, I grew up around farm country, and I know what tough farm girls can do. When two people are equal size, and have an equal amount of muscle, sex doesn't factor into strength differences. Thus, all other things being equal, men and women have equal strength. Doesn't matter to me if that sounds weird :)

Recoil and childbirth might have some degree of pain involved. That is the common factor I was referring too :)

My wife doesn't have to do anything. She is completely free. :tongueout:

[ithaca_deerslayer]

PATRICE when I first read the OP I thought it was kind of 'out there', so I didn't respond. Then I got a some PM's probably like the ones EO got, so I came back for another look. While I really don't think 'trolling' was the intention (and I may be wrong) I do think he needs to stop expecting his wife to like something just because he does and follow EO's and other's advice in here.

It's not trolling.

My wife is teaching other women how to shoot.

So as she and I discuss things, I'm trying to understand better the dynamics involved in the differences (if any) between the way men and women shoot.

She even, (gasp!), asks me to occassionally show her some things about shooting :wavey: She even asks me to teach the women she is teaching.

[Mrs.Cicero]

Just making sure, are you saying that if a man and a woman were the same size, and had the same mass of muscle, that the man would be stronger?

See, I grew up around farm country, and I know what tough farm girls can do. When two people are equal size, and have an equal amount of muscle, sex doesn't factor into strength differences. Thus, all other things being equal, men and women have equal strength. Doesn't matter to me if that sounds weird :)

Recoil and childbirth might have some degree of pain involved. That is the common factor I was referring too :)

My wife doesn't have to do anything. She is completely free. :tongueout:

If they are the same height and weight, he is still going to have more upper body strength, unless he is a rotund couch potato, and she is a professional body builder. More of her strength will be in her legs than in her arms. The muscle mass distribution is just different.

I understand the point you are trying to make - that it is obviously not a weakness/wimpiness inherent to gender that causes some women to not like larger caliber rifles like you do. But childbirth has a goal, a gift at the end, if you will. The life of a child depends on it. Recoil is just a slam in the shoulder, (unless you are hunting, in which case it is death for an animal, and food/life for your family). I am the only female shooter that I know personally that hunts. I only bother to shoot larger caliber rifles because I need them for elk. I have no particular love for doing things that are uncomfortable or painful, except possibly kickboxing (and the endorphin high for the rest of the day is my reward). I don't like loud, sharp noises - I shoot with both plugs and earphones simultaneously. I've taught others with the same issue - they were all female except for one teenage boy with Aspergers. It would be a ridiculous assumption on my part, tho', if I assumed all women felt that way, just because some of them did, and no men did. Most of my female students haven't cared about it - but the ones that did stand out for it.

In the end, as an instructor, I just have to take people from wherever they are (new/old, nervous/too eager to be careful, tiny/large hands, cross-eye dominant/not, long/short neck/arms, in shape/not, self-defense/hunter/plinker oriented) and deal with whatever issues are hampering their improvement as shooters. This means TECHNIQUE. There is good/bad technique for everything. Just because someone is strong enough to do something the wrong way, is not an excuse for doing it the wrong way. You will never see a professional competitive pistol shooter, or anyone with tactical training, pinch his/her slide. They always go hand over the top because it is faster, more foolproof due to less fine motor control involvement, and you can keep the gun up closer to shooting stance w/your eye on your target that way... which means less time to back on target after a reload.

Mrs.Cicero

[Mrs.Cicero]

[FONT=Verdana]Oh, and come this October she is going to make me a grandma for the third time! She’s having another little girl. I keep telling her that’s my revenge and it collects interest, I only had one girl, but she’ll have two. She laughs nervously about that one. :supergrin:

.<o:p></o:p>

Congrats, Misty!

My mom laughs every time I call her up to apologize for something my kids just did to me that I remember doing to her. She says it's the best revenge, too...

Mrs.Cicero

[Mrs.Cicero]

I personally don't care about the OP's intention. Evidently he needed to
make himself feel better and he did in his second post. Interestingly enough
my partner just came home from the range and was tellling me that it was
like a bad B movie there today. Some guy who was trying to teach his wife
to shoot kept yelling at her and snatching the gun away from her. Another
man was yelling at his 14ish year old son to keep shooting, eventhough the
kid was saying that it hurts and he wanted to stop.:upeyes:

I bet they are just wiggly waiting for the next time.:whistling:

I hate when this happens. We've separated dads from their kids at rifle clinics before, when the dad is impatient and the kid is not meeting whatever dumb image the dad had of shooting with him. We just assign an instructor specific to the kid, and politely tell the dad to concentrate on his own shooting, so he can review what we teach with his son later. Sometimes, we point out that if he doesn't make this fun for his kid, his kid won't ever want to shoot again, with him or anyone else. I feel sorry for the people whose first experience shooting is with someone like that. My uncle made it lots of fun for me the first time I went, and my husband has, too.

Mrs.Cicero

[ithaca_deerslayer]

I personally don't care about the OP's intention. Evidently he needed to
make himself feel better and he did in his second post.

Pretty sure the reason most of us post is to make ourselves feel better :)

[ithaca_deerslayer]

In the end, as an instructor, I just have to take people from wherever they are (new/old, nervous/too eager to be careful, tiny/large hands, cross-eye dominant/not, long/short neck/arms, in shape/not, self-defense/hunter/plinker oriented) and deal with whatever issues are hampering their improvement as shooters. This means TECHNIQUE. There is good/bad technique for everything. Just because someone is strong enough to do something the wrong way, is not an excuse for doing it the wrong way.

Cool. I like this point of view. It agrees with my general sense that gender doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if the student is a man or woman. Doesn't matter if the instructor is a man or woman.

I'll have to think more about technique. That's what I'm taking away from this thread. Thanks :)

[sawgrass]

following P. as far as this thread is concerned

[PATRICE]

-.....

[Lone_Wolfe]

---------------------------------------------------------------------:eagle:

Hhmmm...well it appears that everyone has made up and made friends. See everyone in about 6 months or so.--Patrice

We'll be here!

:wavey:

[Misty02]

---------------------------------------------------------------------:eagle:

Hhmmm...well it appears that everyone has made up and made friends. See everyone in about 6 months or so.--Patrice


I’m glad it all worked out too! :) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Take care, see you when you get back. :wavey:

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[Misty02]

Cool. I like this point of view. It agrees with my general sense that gender doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if the student is a man or woman. Doesn't matter if the instructor is a man or woman.

I'll have to think more about technique. That's what I'm taking away from this thread. Thanks :)

Gender shouldn’t matter for most things if you can find the proper technique to teach your student to reach the desired goal; however, there are indeed times where gender will matter and it is important to recognize those instances.

.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Danariel]

~snip~ if I don’t enjoy shooting it odds are I won’t try it again.

^This, absolutely this.^

I learned to shoot in the Army more than 20 years ago, on an M16. My next experience with a weapon (yep, still won't call it a gun) was about 8 years ago, when I bought my first handgun, a Glock 19. Got my HCP, and was pretty good with it, but it was large enough I didn't carry often.

Fast forward to about a year ago, new boyfriend has a gun (a Bersa Thunder .45) and loves that I even have a permit (he didn't yet, I was instrumental in making sure he got his in February), so we go out shooting. We start looking at smaller CC permissive autos, and I end up trading my Glock in on a Kahr CW9, while he got a CW40 (he kept his Bersa, too.)

First time to the range with the CWs, and the damn thing's trigger pull is so LONG and HARD that I can't shoot it for ****, plus the pattern on the backstrap makes my palm VERY sore, and nearly rubs it raw. Didn't even quite get 100 rounds through it (and the break-in is supposed to be 200 per Kahr.)

We get Hogue Handall Jrs for both, and the next time we go out shooting, it's much more comfortable in the hand, but I'm still not hitting what I shoot at due to the trigger. I finally decide I'm trading the bugger in on a Glock 26. It doesn't feel as good in the hand as the Kahr, but I know I can shoot it well.

So, I now have a Glock 26 (which I shot very well just yesterday, heck I even shoot his .45 as accurately as he does, if not more so) and for summer carry with minimal clothing, I have a S & W Bodyguard 380. The trigger pull on the Bodyguard is also long, but I had the gunsmith do some work to it so I can shoot it well.

Just making sure, are you saying that if a man and a woman were the same size, and had the same mass of muscle, that the man would be stronger?

Recoil and childbirth might have some degree of pain involved. That is the common factor I was referring too :)

First off, what she is saying is, if the man and woman were the same size, they WOULDN'T have the same mass of muscle. Period. Women are genetically predisposed to carry a greater percentage of body fat. Those that don't (athletes), typically have problems with their hormones and menstrual cycles.

As far as the pain of childbirth, during pregnancy, a woman's body builds up endorphins, such that, during childbirth, her endorphin levels can be 30 times higher than those of non-pregnant women. So the myth that women are built to take a lot of pain due to childbirth is just that, a myth.

I'm pretty damn tomboy, but I'm also fully aware that there are some things I can't, or don't want to, do. I have absolutely NO desire to shoot something that's going to leave my shoulder bruised or feeling like it's dislocated. Ever. If she's shot it once, and doesn't want to do it again, leave it alone.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

If she's shot it once, and doesn't want to do it again, leave it alone.

That could probably be said of anything.

If he's danced once, and doesn't want to do it again, leave it alone.

If he's visited the in-laws once, and doesn't want to do it again, leave it alone.

If he's gone shopping once, and doesn't want to do it again, leave it alone.

But most married people don't live that severely. They try to help each other. They try to find out what was wrong, and see if there is another approach, another way of doing things, that works better.

Of course, this thread isn't predicated on "doesn't want to do it again." Its more a matter of her wanting to learn to do something.

[Danariel]

If she WANTS to shoot the .30-06, then by all means, find a way. Though, I'm really not sure there's any way to mitigate the kick enough for her to do it comfortably. It may be a case of, if she wants to do it badly enough, she'll do it in spite of the pain.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

If she WANTS to shoot the .30-06, then by all means, find a way. Though, I'm really not sure there's any way to mitigate the kick enough for her to do it comfortably. It may be a case of, if she wants to do it badly enough, she'll do it in spite of the pain.

She has on order Remington 125gr managed recoil loads.

She purchased a shooting vest with a padded shoulder area.

She can handle the recoil of my AK no problem. That's about 125 gr at 2300 fps. The managed recoil .308 and .30-06 loads are 125 gr at 2600 fps. Should be ok.

She shoots 75 rounds of 20 guage in a night of trap shooting, so I'm guessing she can handle it. She put 3 out of 3 rounds of full power .308 on target at 50 yards off-hand shooting, so I know she can shoot even with the recoil.

Obviously, she can do whatever she wants. I've probably gotten painted as some husband forcing her into it. She's a firearms instructor on her own. Her own choice. I'm just trying to figure out why me and my guy buddies swallow the recoil and just do it. But she yells at me when the gun kicks. It's not like I was forcing her to shoot. Is it size, strength, mental, technique, or what? Don't know. That's what this thread was about.

I think the managed recoil will help her a lot. She may choose on her own to progress up to full power loads, if she wants to, without anybody forcing her to do it :)

[Misty02]

She has on order Remington 125gr managed recoil loads.

She purchased a shooting vest with a padded shoulder area.

She can handle the recoil of my AK no problem. That's about 125 gr at 2300 fps. The managed recoil .308 and .30-06 loads are 125 gr at 2600 fps. Should be ok.

She shoots 75 rounds of 20 guage in a night of trap shooting, so I'm guessing she can handle it. She put 3 out of 3 rounds of full power .308 on target at 50 yards off-hand shooting, so I know she can shoot even with the recoil.

Obviously, she can do whatever she wants. I've probably gotten painted as some husband forcing her into it. She's a firearms instructor on her own. Her own choice. I'm just trying to figure out why me and my guy buddies swallow the recoil and just do it. But she yells at me when the gun kicks. It's not like I was forcing her to shoot. Is it size, strength, mental, technique, or what? Don't know. That's what this thread was about.

I think the managed recoil will help her a lot. She may choose on her own to progress up to full power loads, if she wants to, without anybody forcing her to do it :)

I’m tempted to ask those I know if they have a .30-06 for me to try. This thread is definitely tempting me. Heck, I don’t even know if I might have shot one and not known what I was shooting. I like some recoil, I just don’t like pain. The 12g pistol grip shotgun with the large 00 Buck hurt; I will not shoot that thing again with those shells. Conversely, the S&W Magnum 500 (long barrel) had one heck of a kick but didn’t hurt. That one was lots of fun; odds are I will fire it again given the choice. There is recoil and then there is painful recoil, at least for me.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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You mention something that might be key here: You and your buddies swallow the recoil and just do it. I have observed that men have this need to abstain from complaining about pain, more so if they are with their buddies. I don’t mean to offend here but it is kind of proving they are “macho” to one another. For the most part we (women) really don’t feel the need to prove much to anyone. There may be things we have to do that we don’t enjoy; however, those are done generally when it’s a necessity. If it’s not a necessity, odds are we won’t even bother and just say No! For me, there is little thought involved in “No”, it is often the first thing in my mind and out of my mouth. It is the “yes/ok” that requires I give it a second of thought.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Another thing we (women) do often is comment on how something feels. You could be mistaking a comment for a complaint. While it may not be as common to hear a man comment “Wow! That kicks like a mule!” I believe you would find women making that comment with great ease if it does kick. It doesn’t even mean we won’t do it again, it means just what the comment was, it kicks! :) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I’ve made the personal decision to fire, at least once, everything we own. That allows me to classify each firearm into categories: (1) I have no problem with it and can shoot it effectively, or (2) I will use it as a last resort if the ones I prefer are not available. Trying everything also gives me a good idea of what to expect if I have to use it in a self-defense situation; that is not a time when you want surprises.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For comparison purposes, I have absolutely no problems with an AK47 (7.62x39). The recoil is a tad more than the AR15 but nothing out of this world.<o:p></o:p>

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[ithaca_deerslayer]

I’m tempted to ask those I know if they have a .30-06 for me to try. This thread is definitely tempting me. Heck, I don’t even know if I might have shot one and not known what I was shooting. I like some recoil, I just don’t like pain. The 12g pistol grip shotgun with the large 00 Buck hurt; I will not shoot that thing again with those shells. Conversely, the S&W Magnum 500 (long barrel) had one heck of a kick but didn’t hurt. That one was lots of fun; odds are I will fire it again given the choice. There is recoil and then there is painful recoil, at least for me.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
You mention something that might be key here: You and your buddies swallow the recoil and just do it. I have observed that men have this need to abstain from complaining about pain, more so if they are with their buddies. I don’t mean to offend here but it is kind of proving they are “macho” to one another. For the most part we (women) really don’t feel the need to prove much to anyone. There may be things we have to do that we don’t enjoy; however, those are done generally when it’s a necessity. If it’s not a necessity, odds are we won’t even bother and just say No! For me, there is little thought involved in “No”, it is often the first thing in my mind and out of my mouth. It is the “yes/ok” that requires I give it a second of thought.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Another thing we (women) do often is comment on how something feels. You could be mistaking a comment for a complaint. While it may not be as common to hear a man comment “Wow! That kicks like a mule!” I believe you would find women making that comment with great ease if it does kick. It doesn’t even mean we won’t do it again, it means just what the comment was, it kicks! :) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I’ve made the personal decision to fire, at least once, everything we own. That allows me to classify each firearm into categories: (1) I have no problem with it and can shoot it effectively, or (2) I will use it as a last resort if the ones I prefer are not available. Trying everything also gives me a good idea of what to expect if I have to use it in a self-defense situation; that is not a time when you want surprises.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For comparison purposes, I have absolutely no problems with an AK47 (7.62x39). The recoil is a tad more than the AR15 but nothing out of this world.<o:p></o:p>

.

If you do try a .30-06, just know that the recoil of course varies by factors such as what load, what gun, how heavy the gun is and especially:
A. Sitting down at a bench = high recoil
B. Standing up = low recoil :)

Men might complain less. Might. If so, probably just social in how men and woman are raised differently. But the extent of it being macho or not doesn't really factor in that much. I shoot my .30-06 at the bench for accuracy, on my own, and it does "kick like a mule". But the reason for doing that is because the .30-06 is an effective round. The recoil isn't there for the fun of it. The recoil is a product of a large bullet, high velocity, and a light gun for field use. And while I eat the recoil in practise, I know that in a hunting situation the recoil will not be a factor, but the effectiveness of the .30-06 is. So whether my wife accepts the recoil or not is mostly about being able to use the best cartridge for the particular hunting job.

Most macho men will not consider the .30-06 to have much recoil. They will compare it to the 12 gauge. I, however, like to point out that most people don't benchrest a 12 guage that much, but they do benchrest rifles (to achieve and practise a higher degree of accuracy).

Everybody should shoot whatever they are comfortable with. But sometimes initial perceptions of "comfort" changes over time for various reasons. :)