9mm, 10mm and 45 acp: 1 powder for all? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kwesi
08-12-2010, 05:27
I've only been reloading for maybe 6 months on a 550 starting with 9mm then 10mm. I shoot both of these mainly full auto but also in a G17 and G20. I'm using Precision Delta FMJ's in 115 and 180 grain. It's time to add 45 acp which will be used in a G30 and G21 (230 gr FMJ).

I've mainly been using CCI's with a small amount of Wolf and Win. primers.

Having tried several powders this is what I've been using & keep in mind this is mainly for punching paper - no chrono yet:

WSF and Unique for 9mm
Power Pistol, Longshot and A#7 for 10mm

My buddy loves Unique in his 45 acp (230gr FMJ). So I'm wondering if any of these powders will work great for all three calibers?

I was thinking of stocking up on the Wolf primer sale at Weidners and adding some powder to lower my cost with the added haz/sh.

Any advice or recipes are appreciated (min/max loads pls + OAL). Thanks for all the great info many have shared to get me this far on the journey!

steve4102
08-12-2010, 06:13
Silhouette for all three.


Silhouette is a double based, modified (flattened) spherical powder that performs well in medium sized handgun cases. Silhouette's low flash signature, high velocity, and clean burning properties make it a perfect choice for indoor ranges and law enforcement applications.

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

GOA Guy
08-12-2010, 07:02
If I had to limit myself to one powder for those three, I would first choose Power Pistol then Silhouette. Unique or 231 really wouldn't be bad choices either. If muzzle flash is a concern then Silhouette wins.

Kwesi
08-12-2010, 07:34
If I had to limit myself to one powder for those three, I would first choose Power Pistol then Silhouette. Unique or 231 really wouldn't be bad choices either. If muzzle flash is a concern then Silhouette wins.

Muzzle flash is not a concern , I usually prefer it. PP has worked just fine in my 10mm. Can you be more specific on how I'd be "limiting" things with one powder? I do want a load that can be a bit stout for cycling the f/a weapons.

Finding a recipe for all three has been a challenge too.

freakshow10mm
08-12-2010, 09:02
For range loads, WSF takes the cake. Longshot is a good backup especially for the 9mm and 10mm. In the .45, it's best for +P level.

By "limiting yourself with one powder", what is meant is that a given powder in a given cartridge has an "operating" range of performance. By selecting one powder and applying that to many cartridges, you are limited by the "operating" range that the powder gives in the cartridge.

For WSF, you can get 5.5gr in 115gr, 6.0gr in both the 10mm 180gr and .45 230gr for nice shooting ammo. If you are looking for 9mm Major loads, it won't happen with WSF. If you are looking for full power 10mm a la Norma velocity, it won't happen with WSF.

The medium burn rate of #5, WSF, HS6, PP, and Longshot generally perform and meter well. They are generally very clean as well. They all have their quirks though. #5 is a light powder so it will take more powder per round, so it's not as economical as the others. HS6 is great for high velocity 9mm but in the 10mm it has a weird pressure curve when pushed near max. WSF is good all around but is reverse temperature sensitive meaning the colder it is, the higher the pressure. PP and Longshot have a lot of muzzle flash, but both have a nice almost linear pressure curve.

I personally dislike Unique. It doesn't do anything that any other powder can't do better. It doesn't meter well and doesn't burn as clean as others.

albyihat
08-12-2010, 09:29
i love unique for all my pistol rds. but I am not using it to make a major power factor. while it is a little dirty i still have don't have to clean my glocks but every 500-700 rds. even then it's only 10min. a gun. unique has little muzzzle flash, a good pressure curve, and as i am only loading plinking rds. i don't care if my charge weights are off a touch (i get +- a tenth of a gr. out of my dillon powder measure). Now with all that said i did just go out and buy a jug of WSF as i have heard so many rave about it on this site. i haven't loaded any yet but next time i post i may have changed my favorite powder. hopefully this is some change i can belive in (lol).

fredj338
08-12-2010, 11:18
Muzzle flash is not a concern , I usually prefer it. PP has worked just fine in my 10mm. Can you be more specific on how I'd be "limiting" things with one powder? I do want a load that can be a bit stout for cycling the f/a weapons.

Finding a recipe for all three has been a challenge too.
The issue is case volumn & pressure. The 9mm has low volumn & high pressure, the 45 high volumn & low pressure & 10mm high pressure & volumn. So powders that run great in the 9mm small volumn, run out of gas in the larger 10mm. Something like WSF or Unique will work in all three, but not at the top end potential of the 10mm. Powders that run great in the 10mm will be lacking in the lower pressure 45 or smaller volumn 9mm.
So as Freak noted, one powder choice is a compromise. I would look to two powders, something like W231 to WSF in burn range for the 9mm & 45acp. They can also be used for midrange 10mm loads. Then a powder just for high end 10mm loads, Longshot, AA#7 being my first choices. Either can also be used in 9mm or 45acp, but for high end or even +P loads only.

grenadier
08-12-2010, 11:40
You're going to have to settle for a "jack of all trades" powder, if you want to cover the entire spectrum of low pressure (.45 ACP), high pressure (9 mm) and high pressure heavy (10 mm). In general, faster burning powders work better for the low pressure cartridge, and slower ones are more ideal for the higher pressure ones.

You should be looking for a medium speed powder the likes of Hodgdon Universal, Alliant Unique, or Vihtavuori N340. That will give you good results in all three calibers, although you won't be able to go too light in the .45 ACP, or too heavy in the 10 mm.

Power Pistol works fantastic in the 9 mm and 10 mm, and works well in the .45 ACP, although at the lower charges, you'll get unburnt powder granules.

at_liberty
08-12-2010, 12:06
I don't know much more than basics about 10mm, but believe Power Pistol would work well in all three calibers of 9mm, 40 SW, and 45 ACP. PP is on the short list for 9mm and 40 SW and also has widely published loads for 45 ACP. I chose the standard load of Bullseye for 45 ACP but do use PP on both 9mm and 40 SW.

These are loads I have for Power Pistol

9mm 124gr FMJ - 4.9 gr
40 SW 180gr FMJTC - 6.0 gr
45 ACP 230gr FMJ - 6.7 gr

These are all shown in the Lee and/or Hornady books. I have proven out the 9mm and 40SW but never loaded the 45 ACP.

FM12
08-12-2010, 12:08
Alliant's Herco, perhaps?

fredj338
08-12-2010, 12:44
Alliant's Herco, perhaps?
You know, Herco has the right burn rate, but precious little modern data. It was quite the rage for 9mm some 20yrs ago. Meters like Unique though, coursely.

Colorado4Wheel
08-12-2010, 12:55
Power Pistol is perfect for real loads in 9mm and 10mm. Never used it in .45 ACP but it looks like it would work well in that for real loads in that as well. Just don't do weak loads with it.

Kwesi
08-12-2010, 13:19
Great info...thanks to all! Sounds like it might be best to focus on two powders (possibly one) which will be just fine. The 9mm and 10mm loads need to be a bit stout to cycle the full auto.

Kwesi
08-12-2010, 13:45
freak and fred: can you be specific when you mention "major or high end loads"? My first loads have been:

Power Pistol - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 8.0 grains
Longshot - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 8.5
AA#7 - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 10.8

Unique - 9mm: 115 gr FMJ at 5.6 - 6.0
WSF - 9mm: 115 gr FMK at 5.0

These loads ran great in my Glocks or full auto CA89K and CA89-10 but I do not have a chrono. How would you classify these: high moderate or low end? This way I can better understand your posts.

fredj338
08-12-2010, 14:29
freak and fred: can you be specific when you mention "major or high end loads"? My first loads have been:

Power Pistol - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 8.0 grains
Longshot - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 8.5
AA#7 - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 10.8

Unique - 9mm: 115 gr FMJ at 5.6 - 6.0
WSF - 9mm: 115 gr FMK at 5.0

These loads ran great in my Glocks or full auto CA89K and CA89-10 but I do not have a chrono. How would you classify these: high moderate or low end? This way I can better understand your posts.
I haven't used PP, but your 9mm loads are certainly not pushing the envelope, depending on OAL. I have gone to 6gr of WSF under a 124grXTP for a low end +P load. I'll have to check my load data for the 10mm, but off the top of my head, your LS loads are not pushing max. From Hogdon:
180 GR. SIE JHC Hodgdon Longshot .400" 1.260" 8.5 1221 31,000 PSI 9.5 1287 34,600 PSI

MSgt Dotson
08-12-2010, 15:37
Unique will absolutely work for all three calibers, and work very well except perhaps for producing top-end ballistics some want from their Tens...

freakshow10mm
08-12-2010, 22:49
freak and fred: can you be specific when you mention "major or high end loads"? My first loads have been:

Power Pistol - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 8.0 grains
Longshot - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 8.5
AA#7 - 10mm: 180 gr FMJ at 10.8

Unique - 9mm: 115 gr FMJ at 5.6 - 6.0
WSF - 9mm: 115 gr FMK at 5.0

These loads ran great in my Glocks or full auto CA89K and CA89-10 but I do not have a chrono. How would you classify these: high moderate or low end? This way I can better understand your posts.
Meaning high velocity or high pressure, ie close or at maximum charge weight for the data set. Those loads posted above in the quote are pretty mild. I load a 115gr FMJ for my H& P7 with 5.5gr WSF (1.15 OAL) and it clocks a solid 1150fps. Very accurate and a mild shooter.

Like running 1300fps in a 9mm 115 or 1200fps in the 9mm 147gr. Or the 180gr 10mm at 1300fps. That kind of stuff. The "full snort", "full power", "balls out" type loads for serious work. Not the smooth medium 9mm 115gr at 1150fps or 180gr 10mm at 1100fps range loads for a lazy afternoon of backyard plinking.

That said, the one specific load I have no issue ever stating online is the 180gr 10mm loaded with 9.2gr of Longshot set to 1.250" OAL lit with a standard or magnum primer. Accurate as can be, nice medium shooter, easy on the gun and shooter, just a great load. Adding more powder than that is no return on investment (ie, no velocity increase even though more powder is added; unless you venture over published max).

GOA Guy
08-13-2010, 13:03
Muzzle flash is not a concern , I usually prefer it. PP has worked just fine in my 10mm. Can you be more specific on how I'd be "limiting" things with one powder? I do want a load that can be a bit stout for cycling the f/a weapons.

Finding a recipe for all three has been a challenge too.

I've come back awful late in the discussion. I think the other guys have already answered your question. Some folks want to keep the components list short by not keeping a bunch of different powders, primers, bullets, etc etc....This is just fine if you are wanting to make one class of cartridge in one or maybe two similar calibers. When you have different classes of cartridges you will have to make sacrifices one way or the other. To load these three to their full potential from target to mid-range to full power (and a wide range of different bullet weights) you could probably get by quite nicely with three propellants.

dougader
08-14-2010, 11:56
I agree that limiting yourself to one powder for all 3 calibers puts you in a spot.

IF I had to pick one powder for all 3, it would be either Power Pistol or Blue Dot.

My Blue Dot loads:

9mm: 115 jhp/8.9 BD
45: 200 jhp/10.6 BD
10mm (notes are at home... but you can get pretty sweet power levels with a 180 jhp and BD).

Two Guns
08-18-2010, 07:29
Winchester 231 for me.

fredj338
08-18-2010, 15:43
Winchester 231 for me.
In a 10mm? Mousefarts only baby, even in the 9mm you are not running factory vel w/ W231.:upeyes:

mrwilson
08-20-2010, 06:51
The one to rule them all ... Power Pistol. It is all I use now in 380, 9, 40, 45, and 10mm. Accurate and efficient. Love it. It's the Unique of the 21st century.

fredj338
08-20-2010, 11:47
The one to rule them all ... Power Pistol. It is all I use now in 380, 9, 40, 45, and 10mm. Accurate and efficient. Love it. It's the Unique of the 21st century.
Except for the muzzle blast/flash. WSF is pretty close w/o those issues.:supergrin:

Glolt20-91
08-21-2010, 09:58
Having tried several powders this is what I've been using & keep in mind this is mainly for punching paper - no chrono yet:

WSF and Unique for 9mm
Power Pistol, Longshot and A#7 for 10mm

My buddy loves Unique in his 45 acp (230gr FMJ). So I'm wondering if any of these powders will work great for all three calibers?

I was thinking of stocking up on the Wolf primer sale at Weidners and adding some powder to lower my cost with the added haz/sh.

Any advice or recipes are appreciated (min/max loads pls + OAL). Thanks for all the great info many have shared to get me this far on the journey!

Of the powders you already have in inventory, I'd do chronograph comparisons in your 3 calibers with WSF, Power Pistol and Accurate #7. AA #7 should yield decent numbers in 9mm and 10mm depending upon bullet weight, plus it should ballpark 900fps/230gr in .45auto.

Should you add .40 S&W and/or .357SIG barrels for your G20, these 3 powders will also work fine in these 2 calibers.

It might be difficult to find one powder that will give you first shot accuracy (groups) in all calibers. As an example, 7.1grs Power Pistol gave mediocre groups in .45auto/230gr JHPs; but at upper PP limits of 7.3grs (mid-upper 900s) gave excellent accuracy in all 3 of my Colt barrels. However, PP gave buckshot groups out of a Springfield barrel. Compromise was 6.0grs Universal Clays (~900fps) that gave decent groups in all 4 barrels.

In loading the 10mm at velocities the 10mm is capable of, you may exceed the velocity design limits of bullets designed for .40 S&W velocities. I like Longshot and IMR 800X in 10mm, but when pushed, these powders can deliver velocities that will blow up most JHPs, including Gold Dots.

FWIW, I'm dropping Unique from inventory, there are a number of better powders IMO.

Bob :cowboy:

GioaJack
08-21-2010, 10:19
FWIW, I'm dropping Unique from inventory, there are a number of better powders IMO.

Bob :cowboy:


HEATHEN... turn in your man card.


Jack

Glolt20-91
08-21-2010, 11:38
HEATHEN... turn in your man card.


Jack

Ah, the affects of altitude sickness. :supergrin:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Back%20country/StoneheadChiricahuaMtns-1.jpg

Bob :cowboy: