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catalyst686
08-13-2010, 16:19
I have been wanting to start to learn to reload my own ammo for a while now. I don't have anyone who can "teach" me or get me started on the tools/ knowledge I would need. I doubt there are any classes in my area that offer knowledge in this area. I've browsed a little online and am wondering if these are the key components I would need to start a new hobby.
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Cast-Iron-Reloading-Luger/dp/B000KOTZPW
or?
http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0018937214924a.shtml?cmCat=perf&rid=0987654321&cm_mmc=Performics-_-CSE-_-GoogleBaseUSA-_-0018937214924a&mr:trackingCode=B1BEB7CC-958E-DF11-A0C8-002219318F67&mr:referralID=NA

Would either of these kits include all of the parts I would need to reload? I know I would need to get a tool in order to reload 9mm along with powder, brass, bullets, primers, etc....
I am totally new to this, I know this can be dangerous and I would need to obtain a good amount of knowledge before being able to be a safe and effective with reloading.
Thanks for the info!:supergrin:

Bello
08-13-2010, 16:26
the single stage is nice for starters if you have read about reloading... i use the lee 50th i dont load crazy amounts of ammo but started about a month ago these guys here will help you alot and BREAK your balls

Hydraulicman
08-13-2010, 16:30
i started with the rockchucker kit. It's a good kit but when i want to shoot more and load less I go to my Dillon 550B

I loaded a few thousand .38 special and a bunch of 9mm before i got a progressive.

I think the progressive is safer. makesure the charge is in the case and place a bullet.

easy

GOA Guy
08-13-2010, 16:37
Buy the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual. Studying a few manuals will get you familiar with nomenclature and procedure. I just saw today in the American Rifleman that Sinclair International has a blog also. blog.sinclairintl.com

GioaJack
08-13-2010, 16:38
If you have a Cabelas in your area they offer free loading classes every week.


Jack

Gun Nut 99
08-13-2010, 16:42
Check www.brianenos.com and read, read, read and read some more.
They also have "EZ-Buy" Packages will kind of let you know items that you will need.

Colorado4Wheel
08-13-2010, 16:45
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027887

catalyst686
08-13-2010, 16:53
GioaJack---I never knew that! There is one about 25 minutes away from me. sweet! Thanks for the info!

GioaJack
08-13-2010, 17:05
GioaJack---I never knew that! There is one about 25 minutes away from me. sweet! Thanks for the info!


Give them a call, ask for the reloading department. If it's a newer store most of them have a table set up with five or six different presses that you can play with.

Don't touch any of the Lee presses, they have them wired to electrical outlets, you may have to step over the bodies just to get close enough to see they're not what you want.

(I just love it when I get bored.)


Jack

shotgunred
08-13-2010, 18:07
Just stick with Dillon or Hornady lnl.
If for some reason you just have to get a lee only consider a lee classic turret press.


http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/customize-reloader.html

http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0031363215841a.shtml

tshadow6
08-13-2010, 18:18
For handgun calibers, the Dillon Square Deal is the best value for your money. It comes from the factory set up for the caliber of your choice. Lifetime, no BS warranty (Dillon's words, not mine.) Check them out.

ron59
08-13-2010, 19:16
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRZrbv_8kx4&feature=related

This is part 1 of 5, each 10 minutes long. this is 550 specific, but there's info that is good for ANY press.

It's really not that hard, just keep researching. Also, pistol (straight-walled) like 9mm is WAY easier than rifle.

at_liberty
08-13-2010, 19:20
Just stick with Dillon or Hornady lnl.
If for some reason you just have to get a lee only consider a lee classic turret press.


http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/customize-reloader.html

http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0031363215841a.shtml


When I started out there was absolutely no chance that I would have considered a budget big enough to include a Dillon or Hornady progressive. There have to be more realistic answers that make reloading more approachable.

Colorado4Wheel
08-13-2010, 19:24
It's called the Lee Classic Turret or any number of single stages. Soon enough Uncle Don and Jerry will come along and say to get the Load Master. This place is very predicatable. Me included.

IndyGunFreak
08-13-2010, 19:49
Get a Lee Classic Turret.. it's a great press to learn on. You'll do about a 150-180rds an hour when you get the hang of it, and it's not expensive at all.

IGF

Colorado4Wheel
08-13-2010, 20:12
Opps, I forgot. Uncle Don does not suggest starting on a progressive. He suggests a LCT or a Single Stage as well.

shotgunred
08-13-2010, 20:41
When I started out there was absolutely no chance that I would have considered a budget big enough to include a Dillon or Hornady progressive. There have to be more realistic answers that make reloading more approachable.

Everyone has their own budget. Not knowing what it is makes suggesting harder.
I think that a Dillon or Hornady progressive is the best answer. I did say...

If for some reason you just have to get a lee only consider a lee classic turret press.


Personally I would never buy another lee. My lee turret press was so bad that I will not buy anything that Lee sells. But as Steve and Rusty both recommend the Lee Classic Turret so it is probably a good low cost solution. But even the Lee guys agree that the Lee Classic Turret is the best press that lee makes.

If you buy a Dillion 550 you may want a faster press but it is unlikely you will ever need another press. My 550 payed for itself in under six months. By buying a Dillon or Hornady progressive you can also get most of your money back out of it if you decide that you don't want to reload.But yes people loaded on single stage press before progressives were made. Heck I was watching a show on Afghanistan and they had boys (six and seven) making bullets with hammers and hand dies.

joeyshmoey
08-13-2010, 20:50
So this is the is. Take a look at this video and the other 2 behind it. I just bought the breech challenger kit today at Cabela's. 99 bucks and 25 for the die and case holder. get some projectiles powder and primer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQNz2ie5H5U

malleable
08-13-2010, 20:55
tagged

Colorado4Wheel
08-13-2010, 21:06
Everyone has their own budget. Not knowing what it is makes suggesting harder.
I think that a Dillon or Hornady progressive is the best answer. I did say...

I

Personally I would never buy another lee. My lee turret press was so bad that I will not buy anything that Lee sells. But as Steve and Rusty both recommend the Lee Classic Turret so it is probably a good low cost solution. But even the Lee guys agree that the Lee Classic Turret is the best press that lee makes.

If you buy a Dillion 550 you may want a faster press but it is unlikely you will ever need another press. My 550 payed for itself in under six months. By buying a Dillon or Hornady progressive you can also get most of your money back out of it if you decide that you don't want to reload.But yes people loaded on single stage press before progressives were made. Heck I was watching a show on Afghanistan and they had boys (six and seven) making bullets with hammers and hand dies.

I agree

I think it's funny that we don't think twice about throwing expensive factory ammo down range NEVER to see it again. But we balk at buying a quality press that we will own the rest of our life to make ammo at 50% less per round. If you don't shoot enough to justify (cost wise) buying a good progressive then you don't need a good progressive. So it's not a downgrade to buy something slower. At least thats the way I see it.

ron59
08-13-2010, 21:07
When I started out there was absolutely no chance that I would have considered a budget big enough to include a Dillon or Hornady progressive. There have to be more realistic answers that make reloading more approachable.

And do you have one NOW (ie Dillon or Hornady progressive)?

I knew I liked shooting, and long ago I learned the value of not "cheaping out". You buy the cheapest, and it bites you in the butt.

Plus, you buy a Dillon and decide you don't like it, you could move it EASY for 80% (minimum) of what what you paid on eBay. For a 550B, you'd lose almost nothing for having TRIED it.

No, it wasn't cheap, but we're talking what... 250 dollars more, tops ?
You HAVE to have:
scale
calipers
primer flipper tray
on-and-on,


the actual press is only $450, everything else you'd need even with some single stage press.

If you're going to do it... spend the little extra and get something that can grow with you. If you decide you don't like it... believe me, you won't lose too much moving it.

glockaviator
08-13-2010, 21:16
Do you want to load a LOT of ammo or just a little?
Are you trying to save money on ammo or load for accuracy?
What is your budget?

I suggest you go to youtube.com, type in reloading and start watching reloading videos. You can also visit Lee, Hornady, Dillon and RCBS websites and send off for catalogs. There must be 10 or more manufacturers of hand loading equipment!

I suggest starting simple with a single stage press but to each his own. Some even start with a Classic Lee Loader. All you need for 50 bucks! OTOH, you can get a Dillon 650 and all the accessories for maybe, I dunno, close to a thousand bucks. Some load for accuracy and use expensive Redding dies, some load for inexpensive quantity and set up little ammo factories, churning out 100's of rounds a night!

Good luck and be careful!

fredj338
08-14-2010, 01:19
I agree

I think it's funny that we don't think twice about throwing expensive factory ammo down range NEVER to see it again. But we balk at buying a quality press that we will own the rest of our life to make ammo at 50% less per round. If you don't shoot enough to justify (cost wise) buying a good progressive then you don't need a good progressive. So it's not a downgrade to buy something slower. At least thats the way I see it.
I tend to agree w/ that. ***** about spending $700 on a good reloading setup, what's that, at best 2K rds fo 45acp? Ridiculous!
Having said that, not everyone needs a high end progressive to reload good ammo. I would venture the vast majority of newb reloaders are buying more press than they really need. Few will shoot enough to justify the cost or complexity of a Dillon 650. Whether yuo go single stage or progressive though, buying quality once is always better than buying crap over & over.:dunno:

at_liberty
08-14-2010, 06:41
And do you have one NOW (ie Dillon or Hornady progressive)?

I knew I liked shooting, and long ago I learned the value of not "cheaping out". You buy the cheapest, and it bites you in the butt.

Plus, you buy a Dillon and decide you don't like it, you could move it EASY for 80% (minimum) of what what you paid on eBay. For a 550B, you'd lose almost nothing for having TRIED it.

No, it wasn't cheap, but we're talking what... 250 dollars more, tops ?
You HAVE to have:
scale
calipers
primer flipper tray
on-and-on,


the actual press is only $450, everything else you'd need even with some single stage press.

If you're going to do it... spend the little extra and get something that can grow with you. If you decide you don't like it... believe me, you won't lose too much moving it.

I believe it would be dishonest to tell someone they only had to spend "$250 more", when failing to mention that meant giving up auto indexing, a case feeder, and a bullet feeder. Even Dillon people will tell you that a 550B is not a legitimate progressive because so much is lacking. They actually tout the fully outfitted 650, if listening carefully. It is the 650 with case feeder that is a fair price comparison to cheaper brand alternatives. It is easily a $1000+ proposition for one caliber.

No, I don't have a Dillon because I am not ready to spend that kind of money, nor am I convinced I really need that output rate badly enough to justify the expense. I bet I would love it. However, I don't want to give up a bullet feeder that so far only cost me 30 bucks. I believe I would need to spend $300 to add an RCBS bullet feeder, so that would be something like 7 or 8 times what a fully outfitted and tricked out Lee Loadmaster would cost.

I think a good metaphor here is with our guns. Aside from the Glocks, one flavor only, let's say presses can be a bit like $700 1911s and $2500 1911s. They are both good, but we buy as nice a one as we can or avoid a gun we think belongs in a glass case, always nagging us about what it is worth. I think a beater gets more genuine affection. Any one of them can get the job done well. Differences can be pretty subtle.

I think sometimes we assume that a new reloader would have the same ammo consumption rate we do. I don't really think we are dealing with only the ranks of competitive shooting groups, the IDPA, IPSC, et al. What a reloader needs depends upon the gun and the type of shooting, not to mention a sense of what he or she can afford. It is often a case of already complaining about ammo cost, so why assume deep pockets and enough of a commitment to justify the expenditure. No, the Dillons and other seriously expensive equipment brands are things for people to grow into, not start with. I think it would be with rare exception, barring all sorts of peer pressure, that a new reloader would start with a justification rather than achieve one later.

I favor the reasoning that if keeping it simple with a single stage press that one would ultimately retain regardless, there is nothing to write off or sell at some loss, if later upgrading equipment, capabilities, and output rate. Personally, I think that press should have quick change die inserts, so the Lee Breech Lock Challenger, Lee Classic Cast with breech lock added, or Hornady LnL Single stage for significantly more than the Lees would be the place to start. The criteria is that the press has to have 1 1/2 threading to accept quick change bushings. Few presses do.

I don't favor buying kits unless interested in loading for both rifle and handgun. Look at kits to understand what each item is intended to provide and then price out items individually. Usually one will want a different scale than typical kits provide. I would rather have a cheap digital than a cheap balance beam as long as check weights are included.

ColdShot
08-14-2010, 06:59
reloading hand gun bullets on a single stage will get old real fast...REAL SLOW !
this thread is an equipment war so I wont make any equipment recommendation ,they have all been said ........I think too many reloaders make reloading out to be super complicated
and after learning it I found it to be very easy to reload handgun bullets - im into my turret reloader for 250 bucks w all accys

IndyGunFreak
08-14-2010, 07:30
I believe it would be dishonest to tell someone they only had to spend "$250 more", when failing to mention that meant giving up auto indexing, a case feeder, and a bullet feeder. Even Dillon people will tell you that a 550B is not a legitimate progressive because so much is lacking. They actually tout the fully outfitted 650, if listening carefully. It is the 650 with case feeder that is a fair price comparison to cheaper brand alternatives. It is easily a $1000+ proposition for one caliber.

No, I don't have a Dillon because I am not ready to spend that kind of money, nor am I convinced I really need that output rate badly enough to justify the expense. I bet I would love it. However, I don't want to give up a bullet feeder that so far only cost me 30 bucks. I believe I would need to spend $300 to add an RCBS bullet feeder, so that would be something like 7 or 8 times what a fully outfitted and tricked out Lee Loadmaster would cost.

I think a good metaphor here is with our guns. Aside from the Glocks, one flavor only, let's say presses can be a bit like $700 1911s and $2500 1911s. They are both good, but we buy as nice a one as we can or avoid a gun we think belongs in a glass case, always nagging us about what it is worth. I think a beater gets more genuine affection. Any one of them can get the job done well. Differences can be pretty subtle.

I think sometimes we assume that a new reloader would have the same ammo consumption rate we do. I don't really think we are dealing with only the ranks of competitive shooting groups, the IDPA, IPSC, et al. What a reloader needs depends upon the gun and the type of shooting, not to mention a sense of what he or she can afford. It is often a case of already complaining about ammo cost, so why assume deep pockets and enough of a commitment to justify the expenditure. No, the Dillons and other seriously expensive equipment brands are things for people to grow into, not start with. I think it would be with rare exception, barring all sorts of peer pressure, that a new reloader would start with a justification rather than achieve one later.

I favor the reasoning that if keeping it simple with a single stage press that one would ultimately retain regardless, there is nothing to write off or sell at some loss, if later upgrading equipment, capabilities, and output rate. Personally, I think that press should have quick change die inserts, so the Lee Breech Lock Challenger, Lee Classic Cast with breech lock added, or Hornady LnL Single stage for significantly more than the Lees would be the place to start. The criteria is that the press has to have 1 1/2 threading to accept quick change bushings. Few presses do.

I don't favor buying kits unless interested in loading for both rifle and handgun. Look at kits to understand what each item is intended to provide and then price out items individually. Usually one will want a different scale than typical kits provide. I would rather have a cheap digital than a cheap balance beam as long as check weights are included.

In some cases, I agree.. most progressives are easy enough to run 1 round at a time through while you get the hang of things. The problem is, people think they "have the hang of things" after 100rds, which is very rarely the case. I disagree that the 550 isn't a progressive, because it is, no matter what features are missing. It is performing 4 tasks at once with one pull of the handle.

Personally, I wouldn't want a cheap anything on a scale. When you buy your scale, ask yourself if you have confidence it will accurately measure powder to keep you from nuking a favorite pistol. I can't get that level of comfort with any cheap scale, be it beam or electronic. That said, a quality beam scale, is usually gonna be a little less than half the cost of a quality digital.

I think the most important thing, is sit down and look at your budget, then look at your options within that budget. Single stage loading for pistol, is going to get really old, really quick, IMO. Thus why I'd get the Classic Turret, you can remove the indexing rod, and use it as a single stage while you learn(if you want)... then add the index rod, and it's going to double-triple your speed.

The OP didn't really list a budget, but the RCBS kit he linked is $320, so we can safely assume his budget is at least that. If you follow C4W's suggestions, he can get an LCT from Kempfs, a beam scale from Dillon, and calipers from Harbor Freight, and probably still be under that $320, and it will 1. Be WAY easier to use w/o frustration, than the Pro 1000. 2. it's going to be considerably faster than a Rock Chucker.

Since nobody seems to read Steve's thread(which is sad, maybe some of those old stickies need nuked)

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=26&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41

Add to two primer upgrades and the powder measure upgrade, and you have almost a complete setup for less than $200. $55 for a scale from Dillon, and Calipers from HF, and you should come in around 275-280, for a couple setup, after that, all you may find you want, is a Tumbler, which you'd still need with either of the kits listed in the 1st post.

IGF

Colorado4Wheel
08-14-2010, 08:26
I believe it would be dishonest to tell someone they only had to spend "$250 more", when failing to mention that meant giving up auto indexing, a case feeder, and a bullet feeder.

Spoken like someone who has read the features. I press is more then just it's list of features.

Colorado4Wheel
08-14-2010, 08:31
The OP didn't really list a budget, but the RCBS kit he linked is $320, so we can safely assume his budget is at least that. If you follow C4W's suggestions, he can get an LCT from Kempfs, a beam scale from Dillon, and calipers from Harbor Freight, and probably still be under that $320, and it will 1. Be WAY easier to use w/o frustration, than the Pro 1000. 2. it's going to be considerably faster than a Rock Chucker.

Since nobody seems to read Steve's thread(which is sad, maybe some of those old stickies need nuked)

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=26&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41

Add to two primer upgrades and the powder measure upgrade, and you have almost a complete setup for less than $200. $55 for a scale from Dillon, and Calipers from HF, and you should come in around 275-280, for a couple setup, after that, all you may find you want, is a Tumbler, which you'd still need with either of the kits listed in the 1st post.

IGF

Thanks.

I can't imagine loading 9mm on a single stage vs a LCT. LCT is so simple, so safe, so easy to learn. It's fast enough for most people as well. It's not perfect (nothing is). But I wish I still owned mine. I would be perfectly happy with it to load every pistol caliber I own except the one I shoot over 1k rounds a week in.

AZson
08-15-2010, 17:27
I wouldn't start with any thing less then a Lee 4 holer.

RustyFN
08-15-2010, 18:30
No, it wasn't cheap, but we're talking what... 250 dollars more, tops ?

No. You can get everything you need to reload with the Lee classic turret kit for around $300. The last six threads I have read where a noob started with a Dillon 550 for one caliber cost around $850 in all six threads. That's a little more than $250. I am into my classic turret with four calibers for $400. To get set up with a 550 for four calibers I would be looking at around $1,200. If you need a couple thousand rounds a month then you will want a progressive for sure. If you don't then a Lee classic turret might be more practical.

But as Steve and Rusty both recommend the Lee Classic Turret so it is probably a good low cost solution. But even the Lee guys agree that the Lee Classic Turret is the best press that lee makes.

I have never loaded on a Lee progressive but just form reading the reviews I would have to agree with you. I have loaded on a Dillon 550 and thought it was a very nice press. If I needed to go progressive it would probably be the 550.

Personally I would never buy another lee. My lee turret press was so bad that I will not buy anything that Lee sells.

Red just curious which turret you had, the classic or deluxe?

glockaviator
08-15-2010, 19:01
Classic Lee Loader
Frankford Electornic Scale
Frankford length guage
Lee hand case chamfer/reamer
Lee hand case trimmer
Frankford Bullet Puller
Funnel
Plastic Mallet
Scissors
Labels
Small Screwdrive to clean primer holes
Inside case brush (old bore brush)
Bullets
Primers (get locally)
Powder (get locally)
Get loading data from Hodgdon Powder website

All can be had from midwayusa.com for about $200 or so.

And you too can become a reloader. (Im doing 308). Pistol works but with pistol you full length resize and will have to use case lube and more hammering, or so I hear. I've actually never done it. Do get the PLASTIC MALLET and the BULLET PULLER. They are necessary. Plastic mallet keeps your die from deforming and bullet puller lets you SAFELY pull apart your mistakes. Reuse the cases, boxes and case holders your factory ammo came in. So the cases are "free". Good luck and be careful!

ron59
08-15-2010, 19:29
Classic Lee Loader
Frankford Electornic Scale
Frankford length guage
Lee hand case chamfer/reamer
Lee hand case trimmer
Frankford Bullet Puller
Funnel
Plastic Mallet
Scissors
Labels
Small Screwdrive to clean primer holes
Inside case brush (old bore brush)
Bullets
Primers (get locally)
Powder (get locally)
Get loading data from Hodgdon Powder website

All can be had from midwayusa.com for about $200 or so.

And you too can become a reloader. (Im doing 308).

Something like that might be fine for your rifle, where you might not shoot that many rounds per session.

For pistol? No way. I shoot 500 rounds per week, and if I had more money, would probably shoot 1000. Only a progressive can kick out enough for that kind of shooting.

For anybody who wants to load pistol... if you like shooting enough to consider reloading, no way can I recommend a single stage. With a single stage, VERY QUICKLY you're going to be saying
1) "man, this is too slow, I'll just buy my ammo",
or you'll be saying
2) "this is too slow, I have all scales, calipers, tumblers, etc.. let me get a progressive".

RustyFN
08-15-2010, 19:38
For pistol? No way. I shoot 500 rounds per week. Only a progressive can kick out enough for that kind of shooting.

I guess it depends on the person, how much time they have to reload and how much they enjoy it. I can load 500 rounds in under three hours on my Lee classic turret. I have more than enough time to do that every week.

IndyGunFreak
08-15-2010, 19:49
Red just curious which turret you had, the classic or deluxe?

That seems to be a bit of confusion for some folks, they confuse the Lee Deluxe Turret, thinking it is the same as the Lee Classic Turret, and nothing could be further from the truth.

My experience on the Lee Deluxe is limited to simply trying it, but I went to a gun show one time, and they had them set up on a bench so you could run them(no components of course) and try them... The handle felt way way cheaper than the Classic Turret. I can't really explain it. As I looked at the handle, thats when I noticed it looked like the handle was some sort of aluminum alloy... and thats why it felt so cheap. I can't explain it, other than it didn't feel right (this of course was after I'd used a Classic Turret for almost 2yrs). There is no way on earth I would ever buy that press.

Why Lee puts that in their "Kit" I have no idea(obviously because it's cheaper) and I think thats how some folks end up with it.. but you also end up w/ an inferior powder measure and scale. It's much easier to get the kit assembled at Kempfs, upgrade the powder measure, and get a good scale.

It is a fantastic press, and I think shotgunred's post has to reflect his experience w/ the Deluxe turret. I'm also in the "500rds in a bit less than 3hrs range" and that works perfect for me, even reloading for a couple of people.

IGF

at_liberty
08-15-2010, 20:52
That seems to be a bit of confusion for some folks, they confuse the Lee Deluxe Turret, thinking it is the same as the Lee Classic Turret, and nothing could be further from the truth.

My experience on the Lee Deluxe is limited to simply trying it, but I went to a gun show one time, and they had them set up on a bench so you could run them(no components of course) and try them... The handle felt way way cheaper than the Classic Turret. I can't really explain it. As I looked at the handle, thats when I noticed it looked like the handle was some sort of aluminum alloy... and thats why it felt so cheap. I can't explain it, other than it didn't feel right (this of course was after I'd used a Classic Turret for almost 2yrs). There is no way on earth I would ever buy that press.

Why Lee puts that in their "Kit" I have no idea(obviously because it's cheaper) and I think thats how some folks end up with it.. but you also end up w/ an inferior powder measure and scale. It's much easier to get the kit assembled at Kempfs, upgrade the powder measure, and get a good scale.

It is a fantastic press, and I think shotgunred's post has to reflect his experience w/ the Deluxe turret. I'm also in the "500rds in a bit less than 3hrs range" and that works perfect for me, even reloading for a couple of people.

IGF

I disagree that the classic cast turret press is the only one worthy of consideration. My deluxe is entirely satisfactory. The classic has improved spent primer collection, but for pistol ammo there are no other advantages. The turret mechanisms are identical. I filed some edges on my cast aluminum handle but rather like it. You are welcome to your preferences. Actually the aluminum presses have nicer looking red finishes than the cast presses.

The added strength of the cast press is only needed for rifle ammo. If you want to spend extra, that's up to you. Either way it is a lot of lever pulls, and the money for upgrading might be better spent toward a progressive of some sort. I like the relaxed pace of the turret, but it takes long enough that I almost hate to shoot up the product until I have forgotten about the effort and time investment.

fredj338
08-16-2010, 13:16
The added strength of the cast press is only needed for rifle ammo. If you want to spend extra, that's up to you. Either way it is a lot of lever pulls, and the money for upgrading might be better spent toward a progressive of some sort. I like the relaxed pace of the turret, but it takes long enough that I almost hate to shoot up the product until I have forgotten about the effort and time
Actually, I would bet the cast holds up better over the long haul, especially light gauge that Lee likes to use.

shotgunred
08-16-2010, 15:01
Red just curious which turret you had, the classic or deluxe?

By looking at lee's website I would say the deluxe. I bought mine in the late 80's. I bought what the only local gun store recommended and had for sale at the time. After a lot of frustration and time I went to the rockchucker and used it for several years of moderate production for the 357 mag. But there is no way I would want to use it for the production I do now. But If someone stole my 550 and I had to I would rather use the rockchucker than the lee. But that is just me and as I posted both you and Steve have found the lee press to be at least adequate. Its just not for me.

Everyone has different needs and budget. Reloading presses are long term durable goods that will last decades. So the difference in presses is something that most of us will live with for a long time. Because of this I would buy the best press I could afford and enjoy it.
While I don't have one I think that the LNL is probably the best dollar value right now.

RustyFN
08-16-2010, 15:12
Everyone has different needs and budget.

I agree. There is not one press out there that we can say is good for everybody. I haven't met anybody yet that didn't like the classic turret and just wondered which one you had.

at_liberty
08-16-2010, 16:36
Actually, I would bet the cast holds up better over the long haul, especially light gauge that Lee likes to use.

The Lee deluxe turret press is easily heavy "gauge" enough for any pistol ammo. Bigger rifle stuff might concern me but it is difficult to picture it breaking or even pulling the lever often enough to start wearing something out. How durable is good enough? It seems silly at some point, determined that Lee couldn't possibly have any merit.

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 16:42
Deluxe is not nearly as nice as the LCT. LCT has much better pivots, nicer ram fitment, heavier base. The pivots and the ram make a big difference in the feel of the press. It's like a mini 550 in the way it feels. Deluxe just feels cheap. No offence, I'm sure it's fine for some, but to me it's worth the money for the LCT. My friend has a Deluxe. I just didn't like the feel at all.

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 16:48
I believe it would be dishonest to tell someone they only had to spend "$250 more", when failing to mention that meant giving up auto indexing, a case feeder, and a bullet feeder. Even Dillon people will tell you that a 550B is not a legitimate progressive because so much is lacking. They actually tout the fully outfitted 650, if listening carefully. It is the 650 with case feeder that is a fair price comparison to cheaper brand alternatives. It is easily a $1000+ proposition for one caliber.


It's not $1K. 650 $544 plus $212 for the casefeeder. Thats $756. You don't need all the other stuff they sell. Just load with the press as is. Build you bench at 46" so you don't need a strong mount. After that you need a $55 Scale, Primer flipper for about $10 (you don't need a dillon). I am sure I am forgetting something but either way I am still WAY under $1K.

at_liberty
08-16-2010, 17:38
It's not $1K. 650 $544 plus $212 for the casefeeder. Thats $756. You don't need all the other stuff they sell. Just load with the press as is. Build you bench at 46" so you don't need a strong mount. After that you need a $55 Scale, Primer flipper for about $10 (you don't need a dillon). I am sure I am forgetting something but either way I am still WAY under $1K.

The XL650 package quote I have from Brian Enos, including recommended options, is $1174.45. That is fully equipped, the same as anything to which it is being compared.

IndyGunFreak
08-16-2010, 17:57
The XL650 package quote I have from Brian Enos, including recommended options, is $1174.45. That is fully equipped, the same as anything to which it is being compared.

You're misinterpreting the difference between "recommended" and "required"...

IGF

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 18:03
The XL650 package quote I have from Brian Enos, including recommended options, is $1174.45. That is fully equipped, the same as anything to which it is being compared.

It's not even close the the same. Hornady doesn't offer any of the "options" that the Dillon offers.

LnL doesn't come with

-Roller Handle
-Low Primer Alarm
-Strong mount
-Bench Wrench/Tool Set

NOTHING.

It's just a press. Plus, you don't need the vast majority of it no matter which press you get. All you need is a press, dies, casefeeder (if you want it), flip tray.

GioaJack
08-16-2010, 18:06
I'm looking forward to a lively 'Flat Earth theory' debate. :popcorn:


Jack

at_liberty
08-16-2010, 18:22
It's not even close the the same. Hornady doesn't offer any of the "options" that the Dillon offers.

LnL doesn't come with

-Roller Handle
-Low Primer Alarm
-Strong mount
-Bench Wrench/Tool Set

NOTHING.

It's just a press. Plus, you don't need the vast majority of it no matter which press you get. All you need is a press, dies, casefeeder (if you want it), flip tray.

Sorry, but my reference to a Dillon 650 as a $1000+ proposition is reasonable, and I will continue to make such reference.

tglynn
08-16-2010, 18:38
As a relative new reloader (since Feb.), I went with the Hornady LNL single stage kit. I think it was a great deal. It had all I needed except dies and components for loading new rounds in moderate amounts. I did found that I needed a some extra stuff when actually re-loading fired cases. Things like tumbler, case lube kit, primer pocket tool set, brass trim tool, case holders and extra die bushings for multiple die sets. I have about 600 invested in equipment and that includes 7 sets of dies (5 rifle and 2 pistol). And a plus with buying Hornady, the "Get Loaded" program sends you free projectiles for buying their equipment. I have been turning out some pretty nice stuff lately with some help from some of the GT great minds.

at_liberty
08-16-2010, 18:43
As a relative new reloader (since Feb.), I went with the Hornady LNL single stage kit. I think it was a great deal. It had all I needed except dies and components for loading new rounds in moderate amounts. I did found that I needed a some extra stuff when actually re-loading fired cases. Things like tumbler, case lube kit, primer pocket tool set, brass trim tool, case holders and extra die bushings for multiple die sets. I have about 600 invested in equipment and that includes 7 sets of dies (5 rifle and 2 pistol). And a plus with buying Hornady, the "Get Loaded" program sends you free projectiles for buying their equipment. I have been turning out some pretty nice stuff lately with some help from some of the GT great minds.


Add about $300 for a case feeder (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=513888), and it would be more comparable to the Dillon 650 deal mentioned.

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 18:45
Add about $300 for a case feeder (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=513888), and it would be more comparable to the Dillon 650 deal mentioned.

He has the LnL SINGLE STAGE.

n2extrm
08-16-2010, 18:46
Sorry, but my reference to a Dillon 650 as a $1000+ proposition is reasonable, and I will continue to make such reference.

I just added a 650 with a case feeder and a roller handle, under $750 delivered to my door. Only thing I used over was my dies. If you add a set of calipers, a scale, a case gauge and a tumbler your still under $1000. I think the only fair comparison to the 650 is the LNL AP. I priced out both I think the LNL with a case feeder was only a few dollars off from the Dillon. In the end you get what you pay for. No one would by a Dillon or a LNL if you could get the same thing for only $200.

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 18:47
Sorry, but my reference to a Dillon 650 as a $1000+ proposition is reasonable, and I will continue to make such reference.

It's a lie. But if you choose to believe the lie then go ahead. Why don't you list the setup your talking about and compare it the the same setup with the LnL. ONLY include options that both machines have available to them. So delete things like Roller handles, strong mounts, etc. Thats the real comparision.

ron59
08-16-2010, 19:00
Sorry, but my reference to a Dillon 650 as a $1000+ proposition is reasonable, and I will continue to make such reference.

This guy shows up out of the blue and is an instant expert.

He wants to justify his purchase in buying the Lee Deluxe, which every one else on here has disparaged, and so he does so by attacking the industry leader.

*yawn*

I think I smell a troll.

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 19:08
Dillon 650 XL with casefeeder. $ 545+$213=$758
RCBS Flip Tray $5
Harbour Frieght Dial calipers $20
Lee Dies $35
Dillon Scale $55
Midway Tumbler Set $75

Total is $948 Setup for 1 caliber.

What am I missing? Same kit would work for the LnL

LnL $370+ Case feeder $252+ Plate $24
Shellplate for your caliber $26
RCBS Flip Tray $5
Harbour Frieght Dial calipers $20
Lee Dies $35
Dillon Scale $55
Midway Tumbler Set $75

Total if $862

I used Manventure for LnL stuff so thats about the cheapest around.

Colorado4Wheel
08-16-2010, 19:09
He wants to justify his purchase in buying the Lee Deluxe, which every one else on here has disparaged, and so he does so by attacking the industry leader.

*yawn*

I think I smell a troll.

I didn't notice that. :dunno:

ron59
08-17-2010, 05:38
I didn't notice that. :dunno:

???

He starts out in post #24, saying "the 550B isn't a true progressive". Ummm, because it doesn't auto-index? Not. I had said that the 550B wasn't *that* much more expensive than other, cheaper progressives... he called that "dishonest". He then goes on to say that he favors a "single stage press to keep it simple" for newbies. Well, not if they want to do much shooting. (This statement has nothing to do with Dillons or Lee Deluxe, but I still think pistol reloaders are QUICKLY going to get tired of reloading on a single stage press.)

In post #35 he says his deluxe is more than satisfactory. I won't go back through the thread about what other's said, but 90% said they wouldn't use it or buy it, yourself included. That's where I get the "he's trying to justify his cheapness" comment.

Then he starts with the "650 is $1000" story which you have called him out on ?

The guy is anti-blue, #1. Hey, buy your cheap stuff and be cheap, I'll stick with Dillon. But if a new reloader *does* have a spare dime or two... I'd point them to blue any day.

IndyGunFreak
08-17-2010, 06:22
Then he starts with the "650 is $1000" story which you have called him out on ?

The guy is anti-blue, #1. Hey, buy your cheap stuff and be cheap, I'll stick with Dillon. But if a new reloader *does* have a spare dime or two... I'd point them to blue any day.

I don't know if he's "anti-blue", but I have to admit sometimes I wonder what in the world he's thinking. I agree w/ C4W that his logic in comparing the two, is flawed. He lists a bunch of "recommended" options, as if they are required options, which boosts the cost of the machine quite a bit. Then he simply replies that his "reference is reasonable", yet it was clearly shown, that it is not.

You can't make someone see the forest when they are blinded by the trees.

IGF

Colorado4Wheel
08-17-2010, 06:41
Now I just kinda feel sorry for him.

The Deluxe works fine. I just much prefer the LCT for the minimal extra cost.

Homechicken
08-17-2010, 07:07
Catalyst, I started on an old no name (the name was on a sticker and had worn off) single stage press that my father had. I moved up to a RCBS Rock Chucker press probably 20 years ago because it seemed more solid and stable. Its been a great press. To me it seems the main disadvantage of a single stage is time. I find reloading therapuetic. I lock myself away in the basement for a few hours and work in silence with no distractions, but in two hours I'm lucky to get about 100 rounds loaded. Time is the only reason I've considered moving on to a progressive press. I don't need it because I don't burn ammo at a rate to really justify the cost, but on the other hand, when I run low on ammo and want to put back a few hundred rounds, I don't always have the time to spend a weekend doing it. I've been told with a progressive I could load 200 rounds or more in an hour, so it boils down to what your time is worth to you. I'd suggest getting started in reloading with a single stage. Kinda like using training wheels on a bike, you get the fundamentals down before you're turned loose on the big machine.

Also, you may find its not something you enjoy doing and then you haven't spent as much getting into the hobby. If you enjoy it and need more capacity later on you can always get a progressive and either sell the single, keep it as maybe a dedicated hunting caliber reloader, one where you don't shoot many rounds per year.

Colorado4Wheel
08-17-2010, 07:18
With a progressive it's easy to crank out 100 rds in 10 mins. I can do 100 in 8 mins if I want to hurry (but not rush). With a LCT I can get 100rds in 30 mins easily. Faster if I want to hurry.

at_liberty
08-17-2010, 08:10
The following is from the Brian Enos website quote I obtained on 7/20/10:

XL650 (all quantities are (1) piece)


16306 Low Powder Sensor $41.95
21079 Casefeed Assembly - Small Pistol (650/1050) $212.95
16944 Dillon XL650 in 38 Super/9mm $544.95
13606 Primer Flip tray $17.95
20049 4-pack Small Primer Pickup Tubes $21.95
14406 Dillon 9mm Carbide 3-Die Set $61.95
11555 650 Toolholder with Wrench Set $27.95
21044 Powder Check System - 650/1050 only $66.95
BE650 - As it should BE - Upgrade $120.95
19485 650 Press Instructional DVD $19.95
97017 650 Maintenance & Spare Parts kit $36.95
Total $1174.45 (free shipping, no tax out of state)

I made this list with the idea that I was going to "go for it" rather than how small a total I could achieve. By allowing $175 worth of things that could arguably be dropped to force some budget restriction, I believe it is reasonable to refer to this machine as costing "$1000+".

IndyGunFreak
08-17-2010, 08:28
The following is from the Brian Enos website quote I obtained on 7/20/10:

XL650 (all quantities are (1) piece)


16306 Low Powder Sensor $41.95
21079 Casefeed Assembly - Small Pistol (650/1050) $212.95
16944 Dillon XL650 in 38 Super/9mm $544.95
13606 Primer Flip tray $17.95
20049 4-pack Small Primer Pickup Tubes $21.95
14406 Dillon 9mm Carbide 3-Die Set $61.95
11555 650 Toolholder with Wrench Set $27.95
21044 Powder Check System - 650/1050 only $66.95
BE650 - As it should BE - Upgrade $120.95
19485 650 Press Instructional DVD $19.95
97017 650 Maintenance & Spare Parts kit $36.95
Total $1174.45 (free shipping, no tax out of state)

I made this list with the idea that I was going to "go for it" rather than how small a total I could achieve. By allowing $175 worth of things that could arguably be dropped to force some budget restriction, I believe it is reasonable to refer to this machine as costing "$1000+".

Nobody is disputing what you put together, would cost over 1k... but quite a bit of that is optional. Will it make things easier? Probably, but it's hardly required. What C4W listed, is what you need to make the machine work.

a 650 can be had for under 1k pretty easily. I actually count about $300 worth of stuff there that can be left off...

IGF

at_liberty
08-17-2010, 08:42
Nobody is disputing what you put together, would cost over 1k... but quite a bit of that is optional. Will it make things easier? Probably, but it's hardly required. What C4W listed, is what you need to make the machine work.

a 650 can be had for under 1k pretty easily. I actually count about $300 worth of stuff there that can be left off...

IGF

Reminds me of the guy who ordered a Cadillac without air conditioning in order to save money. No sense. I would expect that a typical order would get the machine "loaded" unless already owning some items.

ron59
08-17-2010, 09:07
The following is from the Brian Enos website quote I obtained on 7/20/10:

XL650 (all quantities are (1) piece)


16306 Low Powder Sensor $41.95
21079 Casefeed Assembly - Small Pistol (650/1050) $212.95
16944 Dillon XL650 in 38 Super/9mm $544.95
13606 Primer Flip tray $17.95
20049 4-pack Small Primer Pickup Tubes $21.95
14406 Dillon 9mm Carbide 3-Die Set $61.95
11555 650 Toolholder with Wrench Set $27.95
21044 Powder Check System - 650/1050 only $66.95
BE650 - As it should BE - Upgrade $120.95
19485 650 Press Instructional DVD $19.95
97017 650 Maintenance & Spare Parts kit $36.95

Total $1174.45 (free shipping, no tax out of state)

I made this list with the idea that I was going to "go for it" rather than how small a total I could achieve. By allowing $175 worth of things that could arguably be dropped to force some budget restriction, I believe it is reasonable to refer to this machine as costing "$1000+".



16306 Low Powder Sensor $41.95
11555 650 Toolholder with Wrench Set $27.95
21044 Powder Check System - 650/1050 only $66.95
BE650 - As it should BE - Upgrade $120.95
19485 650 Press Instructional DVD $19.95

When I buy my 650, it will have none of these items. Not because I already have them, but because I don't NEED them. Very few people would call these "necessary" items, and I would imagine few buy them.

Your including them is artificially inflating the cost.

An easy $277.75 less

ron59
08-17-2010, 09:10
With a progressive it's easy to crank out 100 rds in 10 mins.

This. I shoot 500 rounds per week (two sessions of 250 each). I crank out 300 rounds in one sitting, then come back another day and do 200. 30 minutes the first time and 200 the second.

That assumes I already have primers ready to drop in the machine. I actually have 10 pickup tubes, I load up an entire brick one evening in about 15 minutes. That is good for 2 weeks of shooting. So technically if you include that, it takes me slightly longer.

at_liberty
08-17-2010, 09:12
Your including them is artificially inflating the cost.

An easy $277.75 less

There is nothing "artificial". This was intended to simulate an actual order. I am under no mandate to order only "required" items. I took the recommendations seriously for what items would enhance my XL650 experience.

Uncle Don
08-17-2010, 09:21
The Deluxe works fine. I just much prefer the LCT for the minimal extra cost.

Have I got my dates mixed up, is it Christmas? - I completely agree with you on the above quote. I had one before the CT came out and got along fine with it for handgun and rifle calibers alike but the CT is a better quality press and in my opinion, the primer disposal system can't be compared.

That said, I think the guy should be able to buy what he wants without catching grief. There is little doubt that the majority in GTR is always going to recommend Dillon and has little tolerance for other choices. If someone is starting out that is going to shoot 100 - 150 rounds a week and decides on a Dillon 550, I stay out of it, even though I think the better choice based on cost/value is the LCT for that task.

I find it interesting that when at_liberty questioned the wisdom of Dillon based on price, the claws immediately came from all corners. I personally think hie makes a viable point in his Cadilac anology. However, when I defend my choice after someone takes a shot, I'm pointed at as being "Lee" only and not objective - seems a bit of a double standard. I also noticed that when Freak was talking about his problem with his 1050, not one instance came up with the accusation of a "design" problem from anyone even though he couldn't get it to run with the caliber of his choice. As a result, he decided to go to another to remedy the situation on a very expensive press. I also noticed that he didn't get a great deal of sympathy and his competence as an operator was called into question - veiled, but it was there. Conversly, if someone can't get a Lee to run, it must be a design problem.

The last two paragraphs were not directed at you specfically, but rather a general observation I wanted to get off my chest. Ahh, that was cathardic.

GioaJack
08-17-2010, 09:24
I love the sound of an impending argument in the morning... reminds me of being married.


Jack

ron59
08-17-2010, 09:37
Now I just kinda feel sorry for him.



Because I'm picking on him ?