147+p hst [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cowboy1964
08-15-2010, 17:19
Anyone try those? Have links to tests? It's only 50 fps more than regular 147 but every little bit helps.

(and PS, why did GT auto change the title of this thread from +P HST to +p hst??)

ABNAK
08-15-2010, 17:29
I bought 3 boxes of the 147gr +P stuff for my beloved Glock 19. As soon as I break in my wife's new Kahr CW9 and let her get accustomed to it I'll get my Glock back. Seems like perhaps the ultimate in 9mm ammo (and I haven't been a big heavy-for-caliber fan).


I fired a standard pressure 147gr HST from that Kahr CW9 (3.5" barrel) through 4 layers of a bath towel into my pool and it expanded like some of the .40 HST loads---upper .60's. So a +P version from a 4" Glock 19 barrel should do even better!

Little Joe
08-15-2010, 17:37
I ran a box through my G17 and found them to be rather soft shooting. I expected a little more umph!


LJ

bentbiker
08-15-2010, 17:50
It's only 50 fps more than regular 147 but every little bit helps.
Helps what? Penetrate a windshield or get through 7-8 layers of drywall instead of just 6?

cowboy1964
08-15-2010, 19:58
Helps what? Penetrate a windshield or get through 7-8 layers of drywall instead of just 6?

Because faster is always better. To a point.

Snapper2
08-15-2010, 20:40
Anyone try those? Have links to tests? It's only 50 fps more than regular 147 but every little bit helps.

(and PS, why did GT auto change the title of this thread from +P HST to +p hst??)

I run a few through denim into wet packs. Both standard and +Ps. Both opened up around .750 and penetrated deep. I pulled a few bullets and loaded them to 1200fps(vv3n38) trying to separate the jacket from lead. They held together great and expanded to .800. The lead seems to flatten out over the jackets causing less drag on the jacket. Maybe it has something to do with the cannelure but they really hold together like a bonded bullet.

pochis
08-16-2010, 09:24
this is one of the best 147gr self defense loads. just my opinion:whistling:

samuse
08-16-2010, 09:50
I put some through my BHP and my G-19. Flawless function. Got a 3" group at 25 yds with the Hi-Power.

Ak.Hiker
08-16-2010, 23:12
Sounds like the perfect bullet for a hot 357 Sig loading as well.

novaDAK
08-17-2010, 01:12
(and PS, why did GT auto change the title of this thread from +P HST to +p hst??)

vBulletin forums are often configured to disallow thread titles in all caps.

sciolist
08-17-2010, 09:16
Had this same question myself, as I have a stock of the standard pressure rounds, and now availability only of the +P. Standard's run great in my 19 and 26. A shippment of the +P is due in today; will report back.

cmspeedy
08-17-2010, 09:35
Have the 147 standard pressures myself and they have impressed in my informal tests. They are my preferred carry load. In the 147 I didn't feel the +P was needed as they already penetrate. In 124g I run the +P.

You can't go wrong with any of the HST - if you can find it.

sciolist
08-17-2010, 10:11
I am out of my depth on this, but imagine that agency use of the +P 147 (as opposed to standard 147) is premised on possibility of an intervening assembly between shooter and target (like perhaps a windshield).

So, as a CHL holder, my question was/is, is the standard load actually better suited to my needs, logic being that if there is an intervening assembly, there is also likely an egress pathway. Whereas with LEO, egress is probably not the objective.

grenadier
08-17-2010, 11:09
Velocity really isn't that much of a big factor anymore. I really doubt you're going to see much of a difference in terminal performance, when comparing the standard pressure vs. +P 147 grain load.

Today's premium hollowpoints are designed to open up under a wider range of velocities. I have equal confidence in a standard pressure HST being able to expand, compared to any number of lighter and / or faster loads.

sciolist
08-17-2010, 12:06
Velocity really isn't that much of a big factor anymore. I really doubt you're going to see much of a difference in terminal performance, when comparing the standard pressure vs. +P 147 grain load.

Today's premium hollowpoints are designed to open up under a wider range of velocities. I have equal confidence in a standard pressure HST being able to expand, compared to any number of lighter and / or faster loads.

Then, and I mean this sincerely, why do they offer both? Manufacturing two loads in both weights of the 9mm product significantly complicates things. Why not settle on one load per bullet?

I could understand Federal deciding that +P worked better in 124 and standard better in 147... is this just a matter of appealing to personal/agency preference?

Mofeen
08-17-2010, 13:38
Speaking of which, where can I find some of these 147 g +P's online? They area in out in my parts.

M&P Shooter
08-17-2010, 15:07
Because faster is always better. To a point.
sometimes faster causes the bullet to expand to soon causing less expansion. It's about that right balance of weight & velocity:wavey:

cmspeedy
08-17-2010, 16:17
sometimes faster causes the bullet to expand to soon causing less expansion. It's about that right balance of weight & velocity:wavey:

Bingo - 100% accurate, but how big is the velocity window for HST is the magic question?

I have driven 180gr 10mm XTP's at 1350fps into wetpack and had them rip apart. They do the same in milk jugs. Expansion just over .5 and weights between 120-140gr recovered - they lose a bunch of the lead core, the copper usually stays on, but overexpands. Slow em down closer to 1200-1250 fps and you get .65 expansion, near 100% weight retention and DEEP penetration. XTP's are tough, but it was outside of it's performance envelope at 1300fps+ in my experience.

I plan on pulling some 180gr .40 HSTs and loading them in my 10mm. Will they compare with the 9mm performance at higher speeds. I doubt a 180gr HST will stand up to 1350fps, but I am curious. I also want to know how much they will expand. Could we see 1 inch expansion if it performs as the above 9mm at higher speeds did?

Getting out the 800x now.

bjesse60
08-17-2010, 17:00
Love to see the results from that 10mm with the HST keep us updated ! :cool:

cmspeedy
08-17-2010, 17:05
It will be next weekend at least - im preparing for school and I work this weekend. I will post some pics though. I really have my doubts that they will hold up after my experiences with Gold Dots and XTP's. If they hold up I wish they would make the bullets available. By then lead will be banned.

grenadier
08-18-2010, 08:07
Then, and I mean this sincerely, why do they offer both? Manufacturing two loads in both weights of the 9mm product significantly complicates things. Why not settle on one load per bullet?

Simply put, some people, as Mitch Rosen once put it, are more susceptible to advertising than others. From a business point of view, it makes perfect sense to give someone what they want, if they believe in the hype, even if the two loads in the same weight, perform about the same.

Having that "+P" load could very well sway several individuals who still believe that you need higher velocities to ensure reliable expansion. That, plus if a competitor (such as Winchester, who offers a 147 grain +P Ranger load) offers it, and if their company doesn't, that could mean a few dollars lost here and there.


I could understand Federal deciding that +P worked better in 124 and standard better in 147... is this just a matter of appealing to personal/agency preference?

Pretty much. It's a lot like the old Hydrashok days, where they would offer a +P+ 124 grainer to law enforcement, and a standard pressure 124 grainer to the public, yet there was, at best, a 50 fps difference between the two, despite the significant pressure difference. Back in those days, I felt equally confident in carrying either the standard pressure or the +P+ load.

Also, keep in mind, that too many people still take the "anonymous" article about self-defense ammunition that's been posted out there, as gospel. While the article may have been quite valid a couple decades ago, advances in today's ammunition have rendered that article quite obsolete.

Dreamaster
08-19-2010, 07:47
I hate to admit it, but I'm the exact kind of guy Grenadier is talking about. I am frothing at the mouth to get some boxes of 147 +p HST, because to me it's the "near perfect load" in 9mm. I see the truth in both "speed is king" and "penetration is king" arguments. They are "both right". Added velocity equals more trauma, more wounding potential, bigger temporary cavities hands down. But you jack up the speed too high and now you've got an explosive surface wound that will fail to stop. Load up the weights, slow everything down you've got plenty of penetration which WILL STOP but maybe not as quickly as would have been had the projectile had a quicker change in velocity and requires slightly better precision on the shooter's part.

The reality is though, no 9mm round is going to act like a 30-06 rifle round in the human body, so I lean higher on the penetration side of the coin, but yes... every last fps I can add to the equation gives me ever so much more comfort that the bullet is going to jack ****** up and stop the target more effectively. Hence the truth, that I am a marketeers dream client.

Peace guys,
Dreamster

JadeRaven
08-21-2010, 14:09
I have shot 147 and 147+P HST back to back, even staggered the rounds in a mag, and could barely tell a difference in recoil.

Both loads were considerably hotter than whatever Wolf/Monarch steel 9mm. But between the two HST's in 147 I noticed virtually no difference, and sometimes my brain thought the regular 147 was slightly hotter than the +P. So I would say there's no difference in recoil between the two (although scientist would beg to differ).

The 124+P is a little more snappy than the 147. I would compare the 147 to the 124 sort of like more of a .45acp "push" instead of a snap or pop of a .40. Still pretty negligible, but noticeable.

That said, if they're the same price I'm going to choose the +P. Why? Really why not is my answer. +P is slightly faster, should help cycle the action slightly better, and in the end it puts more kinetic energy into its target. To me, there's no difference in recoil, and the expansion difference is a relative non-issue (we're talking pistol rounds here, not .50 cal or chey tac at 1000 yards).