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albinlee
08-16-2010, 02:42
I have been doing my research about different laser options for my G 19, and have narrowed down to the new Veridian Green laser light combo, or the new Crimson trace 417. One advantage of the Crimson is that it seems it would hold a better zero, as the rail section of the frame flexes alot during firing ( it also gradually gets a worse pignose :crying: hate that). One advantage of the veridian is the more visible laser being green. I would like to gather from anyone on GT with rail mounted laser: Does the unit hold a zero well? Also, Does the pignose on a Glock put the laser out of the adjustable range of the laser? These may seem like stupid questions, but I would hate to buy a 300 dollar veridian and find that I cant get it zeroed because of the dirty little piggy nose sticking all way up like. Also, opinions on alternative lasers, or any other insight into laser options is welcome. Thanks!

Generalcarry
08-16-2010, 05:20
I'd strongly suggest you shoot with one (if you haven't already) before you buy. I have a CT on my 642 and when I go to the range in the morning, it's a strain to see the dot in the sunlight.

Mdot
08-16-2010, 06:26
I got into lasers and then right back out after puchasing a Crimson Tracer Laser grip for my Glock. It never held true and required adjusting every 10 rounds or so.

Thinking about lasers: a laser is a perfect straight line. If you mount the laser anywhere other than on the bullet, you will not be accurate because the vector between the bullet and the laser is an angle and changes based on the distance you re from the target. It's a gimmick and not worth it in my opinion.

AZBru88
08-16-2010, 06:58
I have CT's on 4 of my carry pistols, one TLR-2 laser/light on a G17 nightstand gun for home defense, and a cheap rail mounted on on my G20. CT doesn't make a laser for the G20 or it would have one also.
I have adjusted my CT's once or twice after 2-3000 rounds(simple as pick a point on the wall and readjust, they weren't out by maybe 1 1/2" at 10 yards). Your grip can change point of aim on the one's I use (grip mounted), but not by much. On the front mount like your talking about I've never had to reset mine (LCP Ruger). Now that being said, most gun fights are close. At 100 yards ya they might be off, at 25 yards you are going to easily shoot a 2" group. I've shot ragged holes at 7 and 10 yards with all mine. Very fast low light follow up! Almost as fast as I can pull the trigger.
Lasers are best used for low light situations. Not great for daytime use. Inside the house or building is where they really shine!
I prefer the TLR-2 for a night stand gun. Being able to identify what your shooting at when your woken at O dark 30! I would buy the S model now (strobe). One nice thing they are easy to pop off and on and re sight in.
On carry guns I prefer the CT's. I have carried my 17, TLR-2 combo in a Raven holster. IWB is very easy with it. But for EDC I still go to my 19C and G26 as a BUG. Both sport CT's.
If you just want to try a laser before making a large money commitment try a cheap one from CDNN (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/targetsports3.html), $29 not much to lose if you don't like it! The cheap one will pay for it self 10X over just on dry fire practice. Put the dot on the wall (make sure the gun is unloaded) and dry fire away. If the dot moves more then a little, you need to work on your trigger control some more.
Just my 2 cents hope its helpful....Bru

rohanreginald
08-16-2010, 07:15
I am not sold on the laser function, but in the house for a nightstand gun, I like having the attached light.

Also I was just playing around with my light the other day and noticed that in the dark, with the light on, I can see my sights!

tampashooters
08-16-2010, 07:18
Save your money, Lasers are for the movies.

sciolist
08-16-2010, 08:50
Maybe not a gimmic, but certainly a highly specialized tool, and not something I would want on a carry gun.

I wouldn't mind having one to play with during dryfire practice, but don't have a live-fire application for it.

Chowser
08-16-2010, 10:39
A laser is just another tool. Just like a tac-light. For my duty weapon, I have the TLR-1 C4 light and a Lasermax internal laser (red). So far, after being in two different weapons (Glock 22 for 3 years and now a Glock 31 for about 2), the laser is still pretty much on the dot. i have had no issues with it. It is not for you to shoot dimes out of the air. It's useful for aiming when you are in an awkward position or you cannot use your sights. (i.e. shooting from cover or concealment).

Mainly, it is for intimidation. Of course, during the day, it's useless, but I work nights, so I have used it many a time to defuse a bad situation. Bad guys give up quicker when they see the red dot flashing at them. For example, we had a guy with a gun not giving up when confronted with several shotguns, but the second I turned on the laser and he saw it, he immediately gave up. His reasoning was, hey, maybe I can duck some buckshot, but that crazy guy with the laser isn't going to miss me.

In a close quarter self defense shooting, it will take too long to turn on the laser and then you start concentrating on looking for the dot. you'll be faster and more accurate just point shooting at close distances.

For home, I have nothing yet, but will be planning on a tac-light. If someone gets past the dog, I want to know who it is before I start shooting.

(also, lasers give away your position)

AZBru88
08-16-2010, 12:07
Albinlee you might want to watch the video's on Crimson Trace website (http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Videos/tabid/396/Default.aspx)! It explains a lot of what I've said and what Chowser said also. Its free.

bentbiker
08-16-2010, 15:44
I have been doing my research about different laser options for my G 19, and have narrowed down to the new Veridian Green laser light combo, or the new Crimson trace 417.
Wanted to make sure you were aware of the concurrent thread: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1253241 . If you shoot with a green laser, you'll never be happy with a red one; any frame mounted laser on a Glock will suffer from the same thing, whether on the rail or the grip -- Glock frames and slides are not tight (by design), and thus don't always align the same way relative to each other. Forget about the pignose. As for flexing, by the time it flexes, your use of the laser has long ceased until the next shot. And CT lasers are far from immune to movement relative to the slide/barrel. There is a replacement part that helps with consistent alignment of the frame and barrel (see the other thread).

rsxr22
08-16-2010, 16:13
I do not think there is anything wrong with lasers given that practice is still done with your irons. That being said, i am not a huge fan of lasers or lights for that matter that need a button pressed to engage. Pressure switches like the CTC grips and pressure buttons for the Surefire lights are the way to go in my opinion. I personally do not like the feel of the CTC grips on anything, but 1911's. I chose to go with just a tac light for my HD gun, but i have a light/laser pressure engaged setup for my AR

Mdot
08-16-2010, 18:11
Yeah, they say lasers are for the intimidation factor. I gotta tell ya, if you still have your nuts staring at the fun side of a Glock, I'm not not so sure a red dot will make any more the difference.

I think lasers are just not worth it compared to practicing at the range or, better yet, active courses. I would save the money and use it for practice ammo.

piccopower
08-16-2010, 18:31
I have been doing my research about different laser options for my G 19, and have narrowed down to the new Veridian Green laser light combo, or the new Crimson trace 417. One advantage of the Crimson is that it seems it would hold a better zero, as the rail section of the frame flexes alot during firing ( it also gradually gets a worse pignose :crying: hate that). One advantage of the veridian is the more visible laser being green. I would like to gather from anyone on GT with rail mounted laser: Does the unit hold a zero well? Also, Does the pignose on a Glock put the laser out of the adjustable range of the laser? These may seem like stupid questions, but I would hate to buy a 300 dollar veridian and find that I cant get it zeroed because of the dirty little piggy nose sticking all way up like. Also, opinions on alternative lasers, or any other insight into laser options is welcome. Thanks!

what do you mean..pignose?

texas 48
08-16-2010, 22:09
A laser is just another tool. Just like a tac-light. For my duty weapon, I have the TLR-1 C4 light and a Lasermax internal laser (red). So far, after being in two different weapons (Glock 22 for 3 years and now a Glock 31 for about 2), the laser is still pretty much on the dot. i have had no issues with it. It is not for you to shoot dimes out of the air. It's useful for aiming when you are in an awkward position or you cannot use your sights. (i.e. shooting from cover or concealment).

Mainly, it is for intimidation. Of course, during the day, it's useless, but I work nights, so I have used it many a time to defuse a bad situation. Bad guys give up quicker when they see the red dot flashing at them. For example, we had a guy with a gun not giving up when confronted with several shotguns, but the second I turned on the laser and he saw it, he immediately gave up. His reasoning was, hey, maybe I can duck some buckshot, but that crazy guy with the laser isn't going to miss me.

In a close quarter self defense shooting, it will take too long to turn on the laser and then you start concentrating on looking for the dot. you'll be faster and more accurate just point shooting at close distances.

For home, I have nothing yet, but will be planning on a tac-light. If someone gets past the dog, I want to know who it is before I start shooting.

(also, lasers give away your position)

Best post.for the reason to have a laser. Ihave lasermaxes on my G29sf and G20sf replaced my CT's on my 29 because they would not hold zero. The laseraxs are dead on and hold zero because they are alined with the bore.. Have CT's on my 638 snubby and don't have the issues due to the grips are screwed not pinned on. Have the CT Laserguard on my G27 and no prblems with that. Laserguard is also under the gun and in line with the bore and also screwed on not pinned. CT's that are pinned loose zero easily because the pin loosens with use and the need to remove in order to dissasemble for cleaning. For Glocks the lasermax is the most reliable and there are numerous reasons to have them. Any edge that can assist in saving your life is an advantage. You still need to be proficient with your irons. If you listen to purist they would tell you night sites are usless and a gimmick also.Good luck!!

Mushinto
08-16-2010, 22:36
... Thinking about lasers: a laser is a perfect straight line. If you mount the laser anywhere other than on the bullet, you will not be accurate because the vector between the bullet and the laser is an angle and changes based on the distance you re from the target. It's a gimmick and not worth it in my opinion.

You do know that your sights are also on a straight line, doncha?

The LASERS on my pistols are zeroed at 10 yards and I can cut a straw out of a soft drink with them. At 25 yards, they will still stay on a silhouette. I wouldn't use them at longer ranges.

LASERS are not meant to replace iron sights or replace training. They are an alternate sighting method that is very useful in critical situations where one cannot hold a pistol in a normal shooting position.

In a fast-draw and shoot scenario, they are not faster than irons or pointing at contact range.

I have found that the LASERMAX is best for a Glock, and the CT best for a 1911 or a revolver.

The new Laserlyte for revolvers seems to have a lot of promise.

The time for the old timers to say that LASERS are a gimmick is long gone. They said that red dots had not place on defensive rifles ten years ago. Now, no one but the Scrooges among us would say that now.

albinlee
08-17-2010, 02:26
So the lasermax is a non adjustable mounted in the recoil spring. I had written this off awhile back because if you look between slide and frame, the recoil spring and guide rod tilt at an angle, so that the guide rod is not perfectly aligned with the barrel. Does the laser compensate for this angle perfectly then? it just didn't make sense to me that the lasermax would be the best choice. At what distance is the lasermax zeroed at?

AZBru88
08-17-2010, 06:11
I've stayed away from lasermax. Read to many problems with them. Turning off while using being number one. Have to turn them on. Have to be sent back to the factory to be resprung. The biggest one for me was changing the internals of my Glock. I experiment with my G17C (my range only gun). I don't experiment on my Carry guns. I add Glock extended mag and slide releases. But stay with OEM only parts. CT's do change the grip. I have big hands so that helps me. The new front mounts are available if you don't like the grip change, plus they put the laser in line with the barrel. I prefer the grip mounts. Like I said I have adjusted them. I check the laser every time I strap the gun on. Yep dots there, yep its lined up with the sights. Its no biggie. I check my TLR-2 the same way.
I have to decide which way to go on my G20. I'm leaning toward laserlyte. Still researching. The way I draw it would be pretty normal to turn it on. I cover my rear sight on the draw (pocket carried for to many years). Plus with laserlyte, you can find them on sale for around $100. Not much to lose if I don't like them. Wish CT would get on the ball and make a set for the G20!
The guys that like lasermax swear by them. I have never owned them so can't compare. Like I said I own 4 sets of CT's. I put CT's on my daughters gun, and my granddaughters gun. My granddaughter loves my 26 with CT's.
Again just my 2 cents. The big advantage with lasermax is it is inline with the barrel.
As said before. Lasers are another tool. I will take any advantage I can get when it comes to protecting my family.

Njanear
08-17-2010, 06:31
I just went and checked out Laserlyte's site and I think I have found my next serious carry piece on there. I've already got the gun - just need the laser and such. ;)

http://www.laserlyte.com/Pistol_Bayonet/NAA-PB/images/NAA-PB/NAA-PB_2.jpg

AZBru88
08-17-2010, 06:49
Njanear did you watch the video!:rofl::rofl:

Njanear
08-17-2010, 06:51
Njanear did you watch the video!:rofl::rofl:

That's what sold me on this. :supergrin:

AZBru88
08-17-2010, 14:13
I don't think I'd pocket carry that thing....unless you never wanted any more kids...or fun for that matter!:rofl::rofl:

piccopower
08-17-2010, 17:29
ok guys Im not hi-jacking this thread..I just asked what a pignose was....please dont make me start a new thread over that..please.

Mdot
08-17-2010, 17:33
Well I can shoot the nuts off a flea in mid hop without them.

Sincerely,

Scrooge :wavey:

bentbiker
08-17-2010, 17:35
ok guys Im not hi-jacking this thread..I just asked what a pignose was....please dont make me start a new thread over that..please.No need for a thread -- a search using the button on the menu bar will give you lots of reading and pictures.

albinlee
08-19-2010, 12:14
No need for a thread -- a search using the button on the menu bar will give you lots of reading and pictures.

After shooting hundreds of rounds through your Glock the barrel end of the frame will begin to bend upwards, due to the harmonics of the polymer (which flexes when you shoot). A brand new Glock has a frame which is perfectly aligned with the slide. Just look at the gap between frame and slide, starting from the rear of the gun and moving toward the muzzle. If the frame curves upward, and touches the slide at the very muzzle end, you have a pignose on your Glock. It took me about a thousand rounds for mine to fully develop. Its a Glock puberty thing. :embarassed:

John Biltz
08-24-2010, 03:57
I use an Armalaser on a Glock 26. http://www.armalaser.com/Products-Glock.html Would not leave home without it. It comes on when your finger goes in the trigger guard. I've had one on my 26 for 18 months and 3,500 rounds.

sixftunda
08-24-2010, 09:28
After shooting hundreds of rounds through your Glock the barrel end of the frame will begin to bend upwards, due to the harmonics of the polymer (which flexes when you shoot). A brand new Glock has a frame which is perfectly aligned with the slide. Just look at the gap between frame and slide, starting from the rear of the gun and moving toward the muzzle. If the frame curves upward, and touches the slide at the very muzzle end, you have a pignose on your Glock. It took me about a thousand rounds for mine to fully develop. Its a Glock puberty thing. :embarassed:

:rofl:

c_bass16
08-24-2010, 17:13
Ive had two of the "Uni" model Lasermax's. NOT the rod guide style. The first was the Uni-Green (http://www.lasermax.com/product.php?id=127) model and I absolutely LOVED IT. The low profile kept it much closer to the bore than most other options you will find. The Green lasermax put out a lot of juice and was more than obvious out to around 40 yards in the noon day sun. However, it eats batteries fast. Almost necessary to change them after every outing. I therefor decided to sell it for the more battery friendly Uni-Red (http://www.lasermax.com/product.php?id=104) model and was almost as pleased. Holds zero perfectly...just like the green one. Not as visible in broad day light, but at 5pm last week (with lots of sun left in the sky) it was visible at 30m on some dark paper body targets.

The one mistake I made and now regret was not knowing that I could get bulk packages of batteries for the Uni-Green. I still have the red, but want the green back.

IMO the Veridian does not compare to the Lasermax, however...I have no experience with the Crimson Trace.

RayB
08-25-2010, 13:55
The Green lasermax put out a lot of juice and was more than obvious out to around 40 yards in the noon day sun. However, it eats batteries fast.

The one mistake I made and now regret was not knowing that I could get bulk packages of batteries for the Uni-Green. I still have the red, but want the green back.



I'm very pleased with my LaserMax UNI-GREEN (see attached) as well.

The Viridian is an impressive product too, but the light on the laser/light version can be bested by a TLR-1 C4, WX 150, or X300...

The UNI-GREEN sacrifices battery run-time for extreme compactness. The laser with batteries, is about the size of a matchbox and weighs less than a .45 ACP cartridge! Plus, it's easily moved to any weapon with a rail, and can be coupled to a weapon light of your choice!

I did find that the UNI-GREEN will not accommodate a SureFire X200 (or X300) on our G17, G19, or G21, because the SureFire's lamp body is too long to allow the two units (laser and light) to achieve lock-up on the Glock's rail. The long-bodied SureFire hits the trigger guard before the locking bar reaches the Glock rail’s single detent. This would not be an issue on other gun makes, and probably not with a Picatinny rail’s multiple detents.

Happily, my XTI Procyon (or WX 150), with its shorter lamp body fits just fine on our three Glocks. And the light easily compares to the SureFire X200B in performance! Note: It looks like a TLR-1 would fit just fine too.

While I love the two LaserMax guide rod lasers in our G19 and G21, I'm sold on the 24/7, indoor-outdoor visibility of the green laser!

My own review on the LaserMax UNI-GREEN can be found at:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1200047

--Ray