anyone worried about epa lead ammo ruling? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : anyone worried about epa lead ammo ruling?


garander
08-20-2010, 10:56
their was a short lived thread on this in general non glocking. but the enviromental protection agency has ninety days to rule on a petition filed by some anti hunting groups who want a nationwide ban on all lead ammo and fishing tackle. boy i sure hope this doesn't happen. i cant find any info at all if this has a chance of becoming law, or if the congress or courts must be involved? i'm worried

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/ap/groups-urges-epa-to-ban-lead-ammunition-fishing-tackle-99870914.html

DougC
08-20-2010, 11:02
We should be very concerned. Remember, these are the same folks that decided that the carbon dioxide we exhale is a dangerous pollutant.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

ilgunguygt
08-20-2010, 11:13
Should be a big worry. If all they were after is hunting bullets, they would ban lead bullets for hunting purposes. No, they want to take all lead bullets out, pushing the cost of ammo sky high, so that people cant afford it. Its almost like the Chris Rock routine of sell all the guns you want, but make the bullets cost 5K apiece.

shotgunred
08-20-2010, 11:24
Might be time to buy those molds.

GioaJack
08-20-2010, 11:27
Forget the wife's birthday, forget your anniversary, forget the kid's birthdays, forget to feed the dog... don't forget November 2nd.


Jack

fredj338
08-20-2010, 11:29
Should be a big worry. If all they were after is hunting bullets, they would ban lead bullets for hunting purposes. No, they want to take all lead bullets out, pushing the cost of ammo sky high, so that people cant afford it. Its almost like the Chris Rock routine of sell all the guns you want, but make the bullets cost 5K apiece.
It is an end around to gun bans. It's finally taken them all theses years to figure out they can ban or regulate ammo & then your guns are almost worthless. It would not apply to private land use but hunting on Federal land would change. It's already been done here in Kommiefornia, you must use non lead bullets for hunting on public lnad & many private land leases have also followed the directive.
How to push back? If you are a Democrat, change parties, all they offer you is abortion protection & union support. Keep in mind that NOTHING liberal Dems have ever come up with has ultimately been good for the people of the USA.:steamed: Start by voting good Reb. into office in Nov.

DougC
08-20-2010, 11:32
Forget the wife's birthday, forget your anniversary, forget the kid's birthdays, forget to feed the dog... don't forget November 2nd.


Jack

Dead on! Get out there and vote!

Brian Lee
08-20-2010, 11:34
I'm not worried at all because lead sinkers were banned for fishing in many places long before most of the guys on Glock Talk were even born. Then they banned lead buck shot for duck hunting in certain waters when most of you were still crapping in diapers too, so I'll tell you what you're not old enough to remember.

When it happened, there was of course a big paranoid outcry about how "they" were trying to stop "us" from fishing & hunting, and it was all a part of an effort to totally ban it forever. This was over 30 years ago, but it never happened. All "they" accomplished was stopping a little lead pollution, and of the hunters & fishermen I know, none have had their fun negatively affected at all, nor did their hobby become a lot more expensive because of it, nor did any one I ever heard of actually "quit" hunting or fishing because of a small increase in cost, when EVERYTHING else associated with it was going up in cost anyway. Most guys I knew figured that if getting rid of the lead would help the populations of fish & ducks to thrive better, then it was in the self interest of hunters to protect the animals from the lead, and the small cost was worth it, and it has been.

After reading up on the performance of the new lead free projectiles available, (they really are a better hunting bullet with better expansion & weight retention BY FAR) I would have planned to switch over to lead free hunting ammo anyway. With the overall expense of hunting what it already is, the next time gas prices jump just a little, it will affect your hunting trip expenses more than a few copper bullets did.

You'll still be able to shoot lead for almost all of your non hunting purposes on shooting ranges. Only on a small number of them will anyone find any reason to limit lead pollution on a designated range.

This is just another one of the knee jerk political reactions that are typical of Glock Talk. Now while some of you bite your fingernails off out of fear that our country will totally ban hunting or fishing during you or your great grandchildren's lifetimes, I'm going to get back to planning my trip to go kill an elk with a copper bullet BECAUSE THEY WORK BETTER, and keep lead out of the meat I eat.

Before this thread ends, somebody is going to deny the scientific evidence that the Earth is round, and then demand to see Obama's birth certificate.

fredj338
08-20-2010, 11:44
This is just another one of the knee jerk political reactions that are typical of Glock Talk. Now while some of you bite your fingernails off out of fear that our country will totally ban hunting or fishing during you or your great grandchildren's lifetimes, I'm going to get back to planning my trip to go kill an elk with a copper bullet BECAUSE THEY WORK BETTER, and keep lead out of the meat I eat.
Wow, you actually buy into the crap of lead contamination in meat from hunting bullets.
You are truely hiding your head in the sand thinking that this is about the enviroment. So little lead is left anywhere after big game hunting. It's not like waterfowl, where dozens of shots are taken by 1000s of hunters in a small area.
It's only about gun control, believing anything else is idealistic BS. It isn't even so much about cost, but inconvenience. The harder they make it to hunt & shoot, the fewer people will get involved. It's gun control/ban by attrition. Just look at Kommifornia's gun laws. That is what the liberal Dems bring to the table. I live it, I know.

hoffy
08-20-2010, 11:55
We should indeed be scared, the anti gunners will stop at nothing, and they have not been doing so well lately, and honestly I am surprised it took this long, but it is not the first attempt,IIRC. If it fails it certainly will not be the last. As things become more "green" expect the antis to use this strategy more and more, and don't be surprised if it is something tacked on a bill at the last minute, especially something that would benefit gunners. For the youngsters around there was the firearms owners protection act, 1986, yup, under Regan, allowed all sorts of things forbidden by the 1968 law, like buying ammo and components through the mail, importation of surplus military arms, the youngsters do not know what it was like. As nice as that law was, during an act of last minute poltroonery and subterfuge further machine gun production for civilians was banned. This meant only the rich will be able to afford machine guns, especially as time goes by.

It will be much easier to convince the public to ban lead than to ban guns, they hopefully would never go for that, but ban lead, didn't they take that out of gasoline and paint? Gosh, without lead, babies will be safe the world over...... So, outfits like Barnes and others(notice how many lead free bullets are now being made by companies that never used to..) would get rich, and shooting would become a rich mans game. With lead banned, they would go after hand loaders, who are sick enough to have to make their own ammunition(I heard Feinstein or Metzembaum or Kerry, Kennedy- one of those creeps actually said this) and would easily circumvent the law-banned. In some countries reloading by an individual used to carry the death penalty, but this was a while ago, now I don't know(think it might have been during the '70s when Rhodesia was falling apart, the Continent was/is in turmoil).

I hope it does not happen, but it could be an administrative thing that gets us, then Congress will have to overcome it's considerable inertia to do something, how likely is that to come about quickly. Sigh...

PBKing
08-20-2010, 11:56
Before this thread ends, somebody is going to deny the scientific evidence that the Earth is round, and then demand to see Obama's birth certificate.

Amen to that. Sad really that GTR is getting more like the rest of GT than the other way around.

You're right Bro. and fortunately there is a rational though silent majority.
Hang in there. We craped out the big turds, now were going to wipe off the rest of the clingers this election.:tongueout:

Jumper
08-20-2010, 11:59
I'm not worried at all because lead sinkers were banned for fishing in many places long before most of the guys on Glock Talk were even born. Then they banned lead buck shot for duck hunting in certain waters when most of you were still crapping in diapers too, so I'll tell you what you're not old enough to remember.

When it happened, there was of course a big paranoid outcry about how "they" were trying to stop "us" from fishing & hunting, and it was all a part of an effort to totally ban it forever. This was over 30 years ago, but it never happened. All "they" accomplished was stopping a little lead pollution, and of the hunters & fishermen I know, none have had their fun negatively affected at all, nor did their hobby become a lot more expensive because of it, nor did any one I ever heard of actually "quit" hunting or fishing because of a small increase in cost, when EVERYTHING else associated with it was going up in cost anyway. Most guys I knew figured that if getting rid of the lead would help the populations of fish & ducks to thrive better, then it was in the self interest of hunters to protect the animals from the lead, and the small cost was worth it, and it has been.

After reading up on the performance of the new lead free projectiles available, (they really are a better hunting bullet with better expansion & weight retention BY FAR) I would have planned to switch over to lead free hunting ammo anyway. With the overall expense of hunting what it already is, the next time gas prices jump just a little, it will affect your hunting trip expenses more than a few copper bullets did.

You'll still be able to shoot lead for almost all of your non hunting purposes on shooting ranges. Only on a small number of them will anyone find any reason to limit lead pollution on a designated range.

This is just another one of the knee jerk political reactions that are typical of Glock Talk. Now while some of you bite your fingernails off out of fear that our country will totally ban hunting or fishing during you or your great grandchildren's lifetimes, I'm going to get back to planning my trip to go kill an elk with a copper bullet BECAUSE THEY WORK BETTER, and keep lead out of the meat I eat.

Before this thread ends, somebody is going to deny the scientific evidence that the Earth is round, and then demand to see Obama's birth certificate.

It appears you hunt a lot but shoot very little. I guess a lead bullet ban would affect you very little. I am just the opposite; I shoot A LOT but only hunt occasionally. A lead bullet ban would inconvenience me greatly.

garander
08-20-2010, 12:10
yea the lead free 30 cal boolets are 2 1/2 times the price of regular matchkings. then they will ban the lead free slugs on the grounds they are armor piercing

D. Manley
08-20-2010, 13:04
....I actually would kind of like to see that birth certificate, seems almost no one else has. :supergrin:

fredj338
08-20-2010, 13:27
....I actually would kind of like to see that birth certificate, seems almost no one else has. :supergrin:
Yeah, I used to think all the birthers were nut jobs. After seeing what PBO is doing to the country though, makes ya wonder? PBO asks; "do you want to go back to the Bush years"? Let's see, only a $400B deficite & less than 6% unemployment, yeah, beam me back Scotty!:tongueout: His majesty will make Carter look inviting in 2012.

El_Ron1
08-20-2010, 14:22
He don't show his papers in AZ, he goes back to Mexico with the rest.

ilgunguygt
08-20-2010, 14:37
I'm not worried at all because lead sinkers were banned for fishing in many places long before most of the guys on Glock Talk were even born. Then they banned lead buck shot for duck hunting in certain waters when most of you were still crapping in diapers too, so I'll tell you what you're not old enough to remember.

When it happened, there was of course a big paranoid outcry about how "they" were trying to stop "us" from fishing & hunting, and it was all a part of an effort to totally ban it forever. This was over 30 years ago, but it never happened. All "they" accomplished was stopping a little lead pollution, and of the hunters & fishermen I know, none have had their fun negatively affected at all, nor did their hobby become a lot more expensive because of it, nor did any one I ever heard of actually "quit" hunting or fishing because of a small increase in cost, when EVERYTHING else associated with it was going up in cost anyway. Most guys I knew figured that if getting rid of the lead would help the populations of fish & ducks to thrive better, then it was in the self interest of hunters to protect the animals from the lead, and the small cost was worth it, and it has been.

After reading up on the performance of the new lead free projectiles available, (they really are a better hunting bullet with better expansion & weight retention BY FAR) I would have planned to switch over to lead free hunting ammo anyway. With the overall expense of hunting what it already is, the next time gas prices jump just a little, it will affect your hunting trip expenses more than a few copper bullets did.

You'll still be able to shoot lead for almost all of your non hunting purposes on shooting ranges. Only on a small number of them will anyone find any reason to limit lead pollution on a designated range.

This is just another one of the knee jerk political reactions that are typical of Glock Talk. Now while some of you bite your fingernails off out of fear that our country will totally ban hunting or fishing during you or your great grandchildren's lifetimes, I'm going to get back to planning my trip to go kill an elk with a copper bullet BECAUSE THEY WORK BETTER, and keep lead out of the meat I eat.

Before this thread ends, somebody is going to deny the scientific evidence that the Earth is round, and then demand to see Obama's birth certificate.

The problem, my most liberal friend, is that they wont stop at "hunting" ammunition.

Looks like GTR is going the way of GNG. Sad, because this is about the only decent forum left on here.

IndyGunFreak
08-20-2010, 14:50
The problem, my most liberal friend, is that they wont stop at "hunting" ammunition.

Looks like GTR is going the way of GNG. Sad, because this is about the only decent forum left on here.

Eh... Even here on GTR, you gotta weed through nonsense.. this is simply one of them. This is probably the best place here on GT.

garander
08-20-2010, 16:15
in 2004 a bill passed both houses of illinois congress that would bar homeowners from prosecution on gun charges if they used a gun in defense of their home. it was vetoed by rod blagojavich. they actually had the votes to overide his veto! one man who dissented both times? you guessed it, barry o he also voted to ban all handguns

steve4102
08-20-2010, 16:22
It is an end around to gun bans. It's finally taken them all theses years to figure out they can ban or regulate ammo & then your guns are almost worthless. It would not apply to private land use but hunting on Federal land would change. It's already been done here in Kommiefornia, you must use non lead bullets for hunting on public lnad & many private land leases have also followed the directive.
How to push back? If you are a Democrat, change parties, all they offer you is abortion protection & union support. Keep in mind that NOTHING liberal Dems have ever come up with has ultimately been good for the people of the USA.:steamed: Start by voting good Reb. into office in Nov.


Bravo! Fred for President in 2012!

GioaJack
08-20-2010, 16:29
Bravo! Fred for President in 2012!


Fred isn't eligible... if you voted for the first president you're not allowed to be elected the 45th. :whistling:


Jack

steve4102
08-20-2010, 16:39
And Jack as his Press Secretary.

n2extrm
08-20-2010, 16:45
It is an end around to gun bans. It's finally taken them all theses years to figure out they can ban or regulate ammo & then your guns are almost worthless. It would not apply to private land use but hunting on Federal land would change. It's already been done here in Kommiefornia, you must use non lead bullets for hunting on public lnad & many private land leases have also followed the directive.
How to push back? If you are a Democrat, change parties, all they offer you is abortion protection & union support. Keep in mind that NOTHING liberal Dems have ever come up with has ultimately been good for the people of the USA.:steamed: Start by voting good Reb. into office in Nov.

Wow, you actually buy into the crap of lead contamination in meat from hunting bullets.
You are truely hiding your head in the sand thinking that this is about the enviroment. So little lead is left anywhere after big game hunting. It's not like waterfowl, where dozens of shots are taken by 1000s of hunters in a small area.
It's only about gun control, believing anything else is idealistic BS. It isn't even so much about cost, but inconvenience. The harder they make it to hunt & shoot, the fewer people will get involved. It's gun control/ban by attrition. Just look at Kommifornia's gun laws. That is what the liberal Dems bring to the table. I live it, I know.

Yeah, I used to think all the birthers were nut jobs. After seeing what PBO is doing to the country though, makes ya wonder? PBO asks; "do you want to go back to the Bush years"? Let's see, only a $400B deficite & less than 6% unemployment, yeah, beam me back Scotty!:tongueout: His majesty will make Carter look inviting in 2012.


Fred I am with you 100%. Here in NY we are following everything you see in Cali. I swear if it works or not and Cali did it NY wants it now. I think you are dead on in these posts. Be scared, they can and will use anything they find to make it harder for us all to enjoy this hobby. After all it is for the children.:faint:

By the way can anyone at all tell me where in the world lead came from? Was it something cooked up in a lab? Did we find it on Mars? I wonder where oh where on EARTH it came from. :whistling:

fredj338
08-20-2010, 17:43
Fred isn't eligible... if you voted for the first president you're not allowed to be elected the 45th. :whistling:

Jack
If only I could! The problem, some antigun liberal whacko would shoot me for taking away his cushy union or govt. job & make them all work for a living (yes, I have worked both govt & union jobs so no sob stories please, I've seen how they work)! Plus, I am sadly not a born US citizen.:crying: And Jack, we all know you voted for GW in the first election & I don't mean Bush. BTW, I didn't vote until Lincoln.:supergrin:

Colorado4Wheel
08-20-2010, 20:04
I find it hard to believe this will happen. Dems are scared enough already. Plus, they haven't managed to do crap with their supposed super majority. Now with out that they have even less chance of getting anything done. Never mind on a issue like gun/bullet control. Not all elected dems are anti gun. Just like not all rep. are pro gun. Our goverment is paralyzed with bickering and stupid crap. We all ***** and complain about the current president. Reality is they are all a huge disappointment recently. The world is not all about "gun control". We have important things to deal with but instead we argue about stupid crap.

dudel
08-20-2010, 20:17
I find it hard to believe this will happen. Dems are scared enough already. Plus, they haven't managed to do crap with their supposed super majority. Now with out that they have even less chance of getting anything done. Never mind on a issue like gun/bullet control. Not all elected dems are anti gun. Just like not all rep. are pro gun. Our goverment is paralyzed with bickering and stupid crap. We all ***** and complain about the current president. Reality is they are all a huge disappointment recently. The world is not all about "gun control". We have important things to deal with but instead we argue about stupid crap.

+1 Instead of dealing with important stuff, they will get all worked up about some ballplayer who lied to them about drug use.

Congress is running scared that the rest of the country doesn't just LOVE them for the way they've done their job (which in the real world would have gotten them fired as incompetents - that applies to all of them). If they'd gotten the love they expected, you'd see lots of other things passing. Now they are stalled. Lame ducks before the election.

I'm almost ready to bet that if Islamic terrorists bombed DC, many of us would applaud.

However, all that said, one should remember that the opposition can be also be determined. Sarah Brady and her ilk, will just keep picking at the edges, so one must always be vigilant. It's about ideology; has nothing to do with right/wrong, legal/illegal, etc.

steve4102
08-20-2010, 20:21
If only I could! Plus, I am sadly not a born US citizen.


That shouldn't matter, neither is Obama!

RustyFN
08-20-2010, 20:22
Our goverment is paralyzed with bickering and stupid crap.

You mean like the Roger Clemen's BS. Since when did we need Congrass to get involved in friggin baseball. They must have solved the rest of the countries problems and got bored.

Bob2223
08-20-2010, 22:30
One more reason to stockpile lead.

I've eat a lot of rabbit, squirrel, deer and all kinds of fowl taken with lead bullets and buckshot.

And all my kids were born naked with no teeth!


Bob

RustyFN
08-20-2010, 22:33
One more reason to stockpile lead.

I've eat a lot of rabbit, squirrel, deer and all kinds of fowl taken with lead bullets and buckshot.

And all my kids were born naked with no teeth!


Bob

:rofl:

Damn Bob I better stock up. I'm down to around 1,400 pounds of WW's and a 50 pound box of monotype.

fredj338
08-21-2010, 00:42
I find it hard to believe this will happen. Dems are scared enough already. Plus, they haven't managed to do crap with their supposed super majority. Now with out that they have even less chance of getting anything done. Never mind on a issue like gun/bullet control. Not all elected dems are anti gun. Just like not all rep. are pro gun. Our goverment is paralyzed with bickering and stupid crap. We all ***** and complain about the current president. Reality is they are all a huge disappointment recently. The world is not all about "gun control". We have important things to deal with but instead we argue about stupid crap.


You mean like the $1.4 trillion deficit & the terrible economy? Yeah, I agree, it has nothing to do with gun control, but if you think, like many, that there is no diff between Rep & Dems, just look at things now vs two years ago.
A $400 billion deficit vs $1.4 trillion, a health care plan that removes most choices from the patient, nothing about the border & illegal immigration, 10%+ unemployment, cap & trade looming & more.
Is it the current admins problem, you bet your MF *** it is. No one wants to hear how it's Bush's fault anymore. You wanted the job, do the MF job & stop whining. If you can't, & he can't, he has no idea, then step down & let someone else do it.
Yeah, there is a lot riding on the next election. Our country's well being, our sovereignty, our personal freedoms. Much of it riding on what happens in Nov. If the Dems control the house & Sen, they will pass antigun & other crap legislation & PBO will sign it inbetween his vacationing & fund raising. Seriously, how can anyone call themselves Dem when the platform really is about socialism & lack of choice, unless of course you are for those things, it's been that way ever since FDR. Every failed social program has been put forth by a Dem.:soap:
And all my kids were born naked with no teeth!
If I get out there this fall, I'll be taking my whitetail w/ a nice big LHP! BTW, my kids were born bald too.

steve4102
08-21-2010, 06:04
You mean like the $1.4 trillion deficit & the terrible economy? Yeah, I agree, it has nothing to do with gun control, but if you think, like many, that there is no diff between Rep & Dems, just look at things now vs two years ago.
A $400 billion deficit vs $1.4 trillion, a health care plan that removes most choices from the patient, nothing about the border & illegal immigration, 10%+ unemployment, cap & trade looming & more.
Is it the current admins problem, you bet your MF *** it is. No one wants to hear how it's Bush's fault anymore. You wanted the job, do the MF job & stop whining. If you can't, & he can't, he has no idea, then step down & let someone else do it.
Yeah, there is a lot riding on the next election. Our country's well being, our sovereignty, our personal freedoms. Much of it riding on what happens in Nov. If the Dems control the house & Sen, they will pass antigun & other crap legislation & PBO will sign it inbetween his vacationing & fund raising. Seriously, how can anyone call themselves Dem when the platform really is about socialism & lack of choice, unless of course you are for those things, it's been that way ever since FDR. Every failed social program has been put forth by a Dem.:soap:

If I get out there this fall, I'll be taking my whitetail w/ a nice big LHP! BTW, my kids were born bald too.

Go Fred Go! :perfect10:

Colorado4Wheel
08-21-2010, 08:03
You mean like the $1.4 trillion deficit & the terrible economy? Yeah, I agree, it has nothing to do with gun control, but if you think, like many, that there is no diff between Rep & Dems, just look at things now vs two years ago.
A $400 billion deficit vs $1.4 trillion, a health care plan that removes most choices from the patient, nothing about the border & illegal immigration, 10%+ unemployment, cap & trade looming & more.
Is it the current admins problem, you bet your MF *** it is. No one wants to hear how it's Bush's fault anymore. You wanted the job, do the MF job & stop whining. If you can't, & he can't, he has no idea, then step down & let someone else do it./

Go Fred Go! :perfect10:

Things went downhill under Bush. He was a horrible president.

He did nothing about immigration. He did nothing for most of us. Sorry. He basically sucked. Most of your rant is about stuff that he had 8 years to watch comming. Some blame needs to be laid on him and his team. The bailout increased the deficit. He of course just gave the money to the banks with zero accountability. Sadly it was Obama that stopped just handing it out to banks with zero accountability and put it to some basic infastructure (police cars, HVAC systems for schools). It's more then a little ironic to watch my HVAC contractor complain about Obama while nearly every current job he has is a result of Obama taking the money away from the banks and putting it to school and public building energy efficiency upgrades. He would be out of business with out that work. It's nice if the world was so black and white. Reality is a bit different. It's because of Bush that we now have Obama. The country basically wants to vote Repulican. It's after a person like Bush screws things up that we hand things to the Democrates.

n2extrm
08-21-2010, 08:29
Things went downhill under Bush. He was a horrible president.

He did nothing about immigration. He did nothing for most of us. Sorry. He basically sucked. Most of your rant is about stuff that he had 8 years to watch comming. Some blame needs to be laid on him and his team. The bailout increased the deficit. He of course just gave the money to the banks with zero accountability. Sadly it was Obama that stopped just handing it out to banks with zero accountability and put it to some basic infastructure (police cars, HVAC systems for schools). It's more then a little ironic to watch my HVAC contractor complain about Obama while nearly every current job he has is a result of Obama taking the money away from the banks and putting it to school and public building energy efficiency upgrades. He would be out of business with out that work. It's nice if the world was so black and white. Reality is a bit different. It's because of Bush that we now have Obama. The country basically wants to vote Repulican. It's after a person like Bush screws things up that we hand things to the Democrates.


Steve with all due respect you are a little off here. The banks were failing during the bush years, this was due to mortgages that should never have been issued. Bush and other Conservatives were trying to change the laws to stop it. Bush could not do this without the Democratic congress first drafting and passing the laws. Bush asked McCain tried, the Dem's controlled it and did nothing.

While I am on the whole mortgage thing, if you truly go back in time and look at who pushed for and got the laws/rules lowered to allow more mortgages to be written, it was first Jimmy Carter then Bill Clinton. They were both Dem's if I recall.

Colorado is still a pretty free state. Come out to NY or head over and see Fred in Cali. We have lost so many freedoms to the Dem's or libs (what ever you want to call them) that we KNOW how scary they are.

It is far more then lead bullets and gun control. It is just the subject here, I have a great deal of concern for the debt, health care, immigration and many more things. We are again in a artificial economy. We took money we do not have, gave it to people to create jobs that do not exist and will run out to try and solve a bigger problem. All the while we will never have the money we spent to pay it back.

This is the reloading forum so I will stop now. The bottom line is those of us who live in Dem states, have to jump through all sorts of hoops to make a purchase, special order NY or Cal legal guns and pay a premium to get them, can't buy alot of what you guys in Colorado can are not too trusting. We watched a health care bill pass that had no public support, how hard would it be to ban lead ammo? Not very hard at all.

ilgunguygt
08-21-2010, 10:23
Things went downhill under Bush. He was a horrible president.

He did nothing about immigration. He did nothing for most of us. Sorry. He basically sucked. Most of your rant is about stuff that he had 8 years to watch comming. Some blame needs to be laid on him and his team. The bailout increased the deficit. He of course just gave the money to the banks with zero accountability. Sadly it was Obama that stopped just handing it out to banks with zero accountability and put it to some basic infastructure (police cars, HVAC systems for schools). It's more then a little ironic to watch my HVAC contractor complain about Obama while nearly every current job he has is a result of Obama taking the money away from the banks and putting it to school and public building energy efficiency upgrades. He would be out of business with out that work. It's nice if the world was so black and white. Reality is a bit different. It's because of Bush that we now have Obama. The country basically wants to vote Repulican. It's after a person like Bush screws things up that we hand things to the Democrates.
Gotta tell ya man, I think you are a little off. I think alot of people forget all about Barney Frank and the whole mortgage mess that kick started the crap in the first place. Was Bush a bad president? He wasnt the best, he made mistakes. The crap we have in there now though, it couldnt be worse. Putting all that money to build infastructure, etc., was exactly what Roosevelt tried. When the money ran out, so did the jobs, just like whats happened now. Its a failed process that all republicans knew wouldnt work, because it didnt in the past.

GioaJack
08-21-2010, 10:39
This has all the makings of a train wreck. :whistling:


Jack

shotgunred
08-21-2010, 10:43
I thought this was the reloading section not political issues.

ilgunguygt
08-21-2010, 10:47
I thought this was the reloading section not political issues.
Nope, its just mislabeled. If you want reloading you need to go to the Black Rifle Forum.:wavey:

WiskyT
08-21-2010, 11:23
Gotta tell ya man, I think you are a little off. I think alot of people forget all about Barney Frank and the whole mortgage mess that kick started the crap in the first place. Was Bush a bad president? He wasnt the best, he made mistakes. The crap we have in there now though, it couldnt be worse. Putting all that money to build infastructure, etc., was exactly what Roosevelt tried. When the money ran out, so did the jobs, just like whats happened now. Its a failed process that all republicans knew wouldnt work, because it didnt in the past.

That's just it, you and C4W are both right. Bush was better than BHO, but he wasn't that great. My hero, Curtis E. LeMay would have killed barney frank and that is leadership. Bush 43 was better than 41, who was Reagan's biggets mistake. Luke warm compromises on socialism that have let the reds take over this country since the days of fdr.

McCain would have been about 13% better than bho, whoopy! He's honest, and a great guy, who voted for, or compromised on, 30 years of creeping socialism.

ilgunguygt
08-21-2010, 11:31
That's just it, you and C4W are both right. Bush was better than BHO, but he wasn't that great. My hero, Curtis E. LeMay would have killed barney frank and that is leadership. Bush 43 was better than 41, who was Reagan's biggets mistake. Luke warm compromises on socialism that have let the reds take over this country since the days of fdr.

McCain would have been about 13% better than bho, whoopy! He's honest, and a great guy, who voted for, or compromised on, 30 years of creeping socialism.
I cannot argue with anything you have said. Nor do I think C4W is entirely wrong. The truth always lies somewhere between the two opinions. On a side note, whats everyone think of the Lee FCD?:rofl:

Colorado4Wheel
08-21-2010, 13:12
I had a long post that I just deleted most of. This is all I will say about the subject.....

I never said we "should" be giving money to anyone or that I agree with the policies that were enacted by Bush or Obama. Exactly the oppisite is how I feel. Bush was in charge for 7 years before the meltdown. I'm not going to give him a pass on it either. He is not entirely responsible but he carries some blame due to his inaction as well. It happened on his watch. It started before he even came into office but it geared up under his watch.

fredj338
08-21-2010, 14:09
Things went downhill under Bush. He was a horrible president.

He did nothing about immigration. He did nothing for most of us. Sorry. He basically sucked. Most of your rant is about stuff that he had 8 years to watch comming. Some blame needs to be laid on him and his team. The bailout increased the deficit. He of course just gave the money to the banks with zero accountability. Sadly it was Obama that stopped just handing it out to banks with zero accountability and put it to some basic infastructure (police cars, HVAC systems for schools). It's more then a little ironic to watch my HVAC contractor complain about Obama while nearly every current job he has is a result of Obama taking the money away from the banks and putting it to school and public building energy efficiency upgrades. He would be out of business with out that work. It's nice if the world was so black and white. Reality is a bit different. It's because of Bush that we now have Obama. The country basically wants to vote Repulican. It's after a person like Bush screws things up that we hand things to the Democrates.
Steve, like most Dems, you have history wrong. The TARP money has mostly been paid back. It's the $900B stim money that is on PBO. BTW, it's not a surprise that the econpmy was doing ok under Bush when he had a Rep. congress. Then surprise! The Dems take over in 06 & the economy tanks. Hmm, I see a pattern here (Clinton economy was tanking until Reb congress took over).
Really, no president has tackled the imm issue but Bush, at least the fence got started. The economy is a disaster BECAUSE of PBO, not Bush. Most recession last 18m & this one has been going for more than 24m. Bush left w/ less than 6% unemployment & a whopping $400B deficit (which included TARP BTW) that PBO has only dug us deeper into, now $1.4T. All the time increasing govt workers pay & benefits w/o making a single cut. It's Greece man, wake up!:wow:
I like ya man, but in 2012, folks will be wishing Carter wrer running again, that is how bad this guy is handling things. I understand though, tough to stay focused when you are on vacation & playing golf & BB all the time. Geeze what a disaster. The only thing that would be worse IMO, Palin ruinning in 2012. Both are in it for the "look at me" factor & the money, not for doing what they know is right. 60% of the country hates his policies & he just keeps piling on w/ an arrogance that makes Bush look humble. The people have figured this guy out & unless he pulls a rabbit out of his ***, he will be one & done & hopefully the Reb have learned their lesson & govern for the people becuase PBO certainly is NOT.
Fence the border. Pull US factories out of Mexico, that would bring some jobs back. TERM LIMITS! Cut ALL GOVT workers pay by 20% & then close 1/4 of all the govt agencies, make people get real jobs. Get us out of the middle east except for SpecOps (they need hands on time). I could go on, but I would rather talk about the LFCD or how good the guys are on TopShot.

GioaJack
08-21-2010, 14:16
'I hear a train a comin', it's comin' 'round the bend...' :whistling:


Jack

luv2brode
08-21-2010, 15:21
as i have said before the only animals ive seen die of lead poisoning was the ones i squeezed on.

ilgunguygt
08-21-2010, 17:22
'I hear a train a comin', it's comin' 'round the bend...' :whistling:


Jack
and I aint seen the sunshine since, I dont know when.....

GioaJack
08-21-2010, 17:40
and I aint seen the sunshine since, I dont know when.....


ERIC, ERIC... he violated the copyright rules, banish him to the Oprah forum!


Jack

Speakeasy
08-21-2010, 17:45
Us shooters who don't hunt tend to favor the best bullet for the job, self-defense generally. If a non-lead bullet offers superior stopping power, most shooters I know will buy it even if it's pretty expensive, and not because we are touchy-feelie tree huggers (which I guarantee you we are not). On the other hand, give me dirt cheap lead FMJ to practice with.

The EPA ban says nothing about hunting vs. shooting range ammo, they want all of it gone, regardless of where it's used.

The NRA is on it http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=14092 Hopefully their efforts aren't wasted.

GioaJack
08-21-2010, 17:50
Once again I'm confused, okay, still confused. They want to ban lead bullets 'cause they're bad for the environment but they want us all to drive lead filled battery powered cars?

Hey, look, the race is starting! BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY... LETS GO RACIN' BOYS!


Jack

ilgunguygt
08-21-2010, 17:53
ERIC, ERIC... he violated the copyright rules, banish him to the Oprah forum!


Jack
:whistling::devildance:

Speakeasy
08-21-2010, 17:54
To be fair, lead acid car batteries get recycled, or they're supposed to be.

fredj338
08-21-2010, 19:27
To be fair, lead acid car batteries get recycled, or they're supposed to be.
Still, the logic is sound. The govt is often quick to put something in place then have to clean the mess up later. Just look at ethanol or MTB in gas. ANyone w/ even the smallest brain KNOWS this is not at all about environment. How many lead bullets do you think get fired at game across the country in a year? Certainly not enough to cause enviro issues of any kind, even to the fragile Condor.:yawn:
Nope, this is the very slow liberals coming to grips w/ the fact the 2nd amend is here to stay but there are NO such safe guards for ammo. If they can tax it they will, if they can regulate it, they will. Again, look at what is happening in Kalif to see the model for the rest of the country if things do NOT change in Nov. The libs will take it as a mandate, if they are reelected, that they can do Cap & Tax, gun control, EPA Nazi like regulations & ever higher taxes for all, not just those making more than $250K. There aren't enough of those left to milk, they'll have to come after you & me.:steamed:
In the mean time, I will still collect lead alloy where I can & be the ever present green reloader that I am, by turning it into shiney new bullets to shoot. Well, at least until they ban that too, for my own good of course.

cole
08-21-2010, 20:41
If shooting is a $10/50 - $20/50 hobby, then, if lead is banned, in the spirit of capitalism I suspsect some company will devise a lead-free product in the $10/50 - $20/50 range. If not, you'll lose may shooters and as the market shrinks the loss of the economy-of-scale savings.

You MAY see a renewed rush to 9mm if lead-free 9mm is $20/50 and .45acp is $30/50. Me, I'll have to stop shooting, but I'll still own the guns. Sadly, I'll just be less proficient with the.

I do not know if the lead-free thing will be pushed through. What I do know is complaining solves nothing. Voting and getting active can.

kshutt
08-21-2010, 23:44
Fred, I'm not going to quote all that you've said, but all of it has really made me hate the lib 'n' dem platform even more than I did before. I don't understand a man that loves to hunt or shoot having anything to do with that godforsaken party. I can't stand them, and I've had enough!

I also wish some of the "newcomers" from some of the other forums would head back to where they belong. I've read a few lines from them taking cheap shots at some of my reloading buddies and heroes, and I don't like it at all. :steamed:

We've had fun here for a long time. One of the newer threads I just read even seemed to invite strife and lacked substance; you know the one. I just don't like this at all. Too many of our guys here are just good people, and I've become angry lately reading some of the newer sarcastic, idiotic remarks. :dunno:

baogongmeo
08-22-2010, 01:28
I'm not worried at all because lead sinkers were banned for fishing in many places long before most of the guys on Glock Talk were even born. Then they banned lead buck shot for duck hunting in certain waters when most of you were still crapping in diapers too, so I'll tell you what you're not old enough to remember.

When it happened, there was of course a big paranoid outcry about how "they" were trying to stop "us" from fishing & hunting, and it was all a part of an effort to totally ban it forever. This was over 30 years ago, but it never happened. All "they" accomplished was stopping a little lead pollution, and of the hunters & fishermen I know, none have had their fun negatively affected at all, nor did their hobby become a lot more expensive because of it, nor did any one I ever heard of actually "quit" hunting or fishing because of a small increase in cost, when EVERYTHING else associated with it was going up in cost anyway. Most guys I knew figured that if getting rid of the lead would help the populations of fish & ducks to thrive better, then it was in the self interest of hunters to protect the animals from the lead, and the small cost was worth it, and it has been.

After reading up on the performance of the new lead free projectiles available, (they really are a better hunting bullet with better expansion & weight retention BY FAR) I would have planned to switch over to lead free hunting ammo anyway. With the overall expense of hunting what it already is, the next time gas prices jump just a little, it will affect your hunting trip expenses more than a few copper bullets did.

You'll still be able to shoot lead for almost all of your non hunting purposes on shooting ranges. Only on a small number of them will anyone find any reason to limit lead pollution on a designated range.

This is just another one of the knee jerk political reactions that are typical of Glock Talk. Now while some of you bite your fingernails off out of fear that our country will totally ban hunting or fishing during you or your great grandchildren's lifetimes, I'm going to get back to planning my trip to go kill an elk with a copper bullet BECAUSE THEY WORK BETTER, and keep lead out of the meat I eat.

Before this thread ends, somebody is going to deny the scientific evidence that the Earth is round, and then demand to see Obama's birth certificate.

I started waterfowl hunting in the 60s with my Dad...I have a picture of us each with two Canada geese,I'm probably seven years or eight years old in the photo,I'm 54 now.
I hunted Waterfowl with lead when it was legal.It was Way better than steel.

In north central MO.there is a conservation area called Swan Lake,it used to be famous for its Goose hunting.
When I was a boy they declaired it and some of the surrounding counties to be the "Swan Lake Zone" and set a harvest quota of so many thousand Canada Geese...they had check points on the major roads out of the zone and once the quota was reached the hunting was stopped...I don't remember it ever taking more than three or four weeks to be shut down.
Then around 1980 or so they banned lead shot in the zone.Not once after that was the quota reached and they finally stopped the check points and dropped the quota after several years since the kill had dropped to fraction of what it had been in the lead shot days.
Oh and in those days there were no 31/2" 12 guages and very few 10s...most Goose hunters used 2 3/4" guns even for pass shooting.

dudel
08-22-2010, 03:47
'I hear a train a comin', it's comin' 'round the bend...' :whistling:


Jack

THe light at the end of the tunnel ain't always the exit.

leeward419
08-22-2010, 06:10
quick question here, not re the lead,
DO you beleive you have human rights? IE the right to own your self, the product of your labor etc. If you own yourself, then you have the right/responsibility to protect yourself. This is illustrated by a court case where the relatives of a murder victim sued the authorities for lack of protection. The case was denied as the authorities having jurisdiction only are responsilbe for the maintaining law and order in society at large, and have no specific duty to maintain your personal safety in specific. The southern democrats opposed and circumvented each and every civil rights acts between 1872 and 1964. These were numerous and all were aimed at protecting the human rights off all citizens including the rights of blacks to own firearms up to and including the right to vote and not attend a segragated school. These rights all eminate from the very simple concept of "I own me" not the government.

If you dont beleive in this concept you believe, by default, in slavery; slaves did not get to own the product of their labor or the wealth that ensued. Wealth (not money) is the value that we impart to the currency. The government is responsible for the currency system but they do not impart it with value. We do. If you dont beleive me start reading about the concept of the constitution, it is all documented, easy to access and the intent is perfectly clear if you care to read it. Better yet take a class on economics, you could never be a liberal again, because you would find out, through economic education that you would be a communist, and we know marx never worked , nor stalin,polpot, fidel, mussolini, wilson etc and for strictly the understanding of economics, wealth vs money, the items that enable wealth, ie personal property rights etc and their relation ship to greater society. they destroyed their societies by not understanding this.
Decide on what side of the barbed wire are you on, and apply the same human rights issues to the government today? They cant win the economic arguments, nor the human rights, so the take the same commie ideas and run them to the green movement and rejigger them. Even these need fake data etc. You cant shoot enough lead into the environment to hurt anything. Think Im kidding go read Jane Benrus book on the sustainability, its a thinly veiled attack on the economy, targets all consumption of oil, all large scale farming. North Korea looks like a "sustainable" economy, or palestine etc.....

ColdShot
08-22-2010, 06:56
Why is it there is always a group trying to ban everything...They seem to be mostly in California too LOL.....If these Banner's would spend brain power on productivity instead of
the deproductivity of this nation we might actually have some great ideas on how to get
the USA back on track again.......

at_liberty
08-22-2010, 07:49
<>

I also wish some of the "newcomers" from some of the other forums would head back to where they belong. I've read a few lines from them taking cheap shots at some of my reloading buddies and heroes, and I don't like it at all. :steamed:

We've had fun here for a long time. One of the newer threads I just read even seemed to invite strife and lacked substance; you know the one. I just don't like this at all. Too many of our guys here are just good people, and I've become angry lately reading some of the newer sarcastic, idiotic remarks. :dunno:

I find that an oddly placed sentiment in a thread that serves to protest a dominant group's spurious attempt to ban some irritant. Sometimes an anarchist doesn't know whether to scream or go blind...can't have a law and can't have a late night hanging.

Colorado4Wheel
08-22-2010, 07:50
Steve, like most Dems,

I didn't even read the rest of your post becasue this pisses me off so much I am seeing red. Only in America do we have such a polerized political system that you have to be either one or the other. I am neither. I was raised in Europe where most countries have more then one system. DO NOT ASSUME I agree Dems because I think the last Rep president sucked.

I'm not even reading any more of this thread because people like you are too busy making assumptions about me.

WiskyT
08-22-2010, 07:57
Why is it there is always a group trying to ban everything...They seem to be mostly in California too LOL.....If these Banner's would spend brain power on productivity instead of
the deproductivity of this nation we might actually have some great ideas on how to get
the USA back on track again.......

Actually, most big thinking starts in europe. Then the Calcoms pick it up. They are so smart in europe that it is now called eurabia becuase the Moores have ridden back in and taken it over. Yup, those frogs and limies sure are smart. Now we can be smart just like them and have a green economy with lots of jobs for all. Oh wait, what's that? It's a mosque led by a radical being built on Ground Zero.

Colorado4Wheel
08-22-2010, 08:00
Fred, It's a question of regulation vs non-regulation. It's a guestion of paying for what we buy vs not paying for what we buy. NEITHER party is serious about these issue. THe are all too afraid to actually pay for what they buy because if they do they will not get re elected. Both parties want to act like they pay for it through slight of hand. Neither is willing to make their base pay for their war, social programs or civic improvements. Instead we spend all this time fiddling around with a over complicated tax system that lets politicicians pretend like they want to pay for things but the reality is in the end they dont.


http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Two party system does us all a disservice.

leeward419
08-22-2010, 08:36
The housing crisis started with the lending of bad loans, mandated by the community reinvestment act, passed by the dems, dont forget they took control of congress in 2008 (and most of the last century) resisted ending loan legislation, Andrew Cuomo was running fannie mae/Freddie mac, which is now bankrupt due to this. The reinvestment act accopmplished what it was intended to accomplish which is secuiring the "right of people to own homes" whether they could afford them or not.

You should be happy the Andrew Cuomo, who was in the fredder/fannie administration, who is on record as wanting to increase the "redline" loans (ie bad loans) from 30 percent to 50 percent of the banks loans, (they packaged up the bad with good loans and sold them to other banks) is only running for control of New York State (ie governor) and not the rest of the country.

Amazinly the great depression, was caused by unsecured mortgages too.
Another typical hearstring program run amuck.

THe only thing the dems care about is blaming others for their failed policies. I agree bush sucked, he was too far away from conservative economic principles, but, so is congrss and the senate, who since 2008 is controlling the econmy. 4.8 billion per day deficit right now. Easy to fix, just spend less (conservative approach), or , increase the tax rate to 97% ( democrat goal) and throw anyone who objects to this in prison after an investigation.
Not real complicated.

DO you own your money that you earn, or does the government.
and
Do you want more than you put into the economy or earn (gotta come from your neighbors in this case)
pretty simple, needs to be obscured with various arguments of grey to get any non dependent type person ot agree with the latter ie lie about it.

WiskyT
08-22-2010, 08:46
The housing crisis started with the lending of bad loans, mandated by the community reinvestment act, passed by the dems, dont forget they took control of congress in 2008. They resisted multiple attempts to stop the bad loan legislation, Andrew Cuomo was running fannie mae/Freddie mac, which is now bankrupt due to this. The reinvestment act accopmplished what it was intended to accomplish which is secuiring the "right of people to own homes" whether they could afford them or not.

You should be happy the Andrew Cuomo, who was in the fredder/fannie administration, who is on record as wanting to increase the "redline" loans (ie bad loans) from 30 percent to 50 percent of the banks loans, (they packaged up the bad with good loans and sold them to other banks) is only running for control of New York State (ie governor) and not the rest of the country.

Amazinly the great depression, was caused by unsecured mortgages too.
Another typical hearstring program run amuck.

THe only thing the dems care about is blaming others for their failed policies. I agree bush sucked, he was too far away from conservative economic principles, but, so is congrss and the senate, who since 2008 is controlling the econmy. 4.8 billion per day deficit right now. Easy to fix, just spend less (conservative approach), or , increase the tax rate to 97% ( democrat goal) and throw anyone who objects to this in prison after an investigation.
Not real complicated. DO you own your money that you earn, or does the government.

I pray for andrew cuomo to get incurable syphilis. That doesn't change the fact that the Community Redevelopemnt Act was passed in 1977 and has been furthered, baby steps under Republicans and giant steps under dems, every day since then. 43 took great pride in "minority" home ownership. Why didn't 43's DOJ investigate franklin raines and the rest of the goons while he had a chance? It's not because 43 was dishonest, but he just did a lousy job in that regard.

You're the manager for the NY Yankees and you have two choices for pitching. One is me, honest and an all around good guy who can barely reach the plate. Your other choice is a cheat and a scumbag who will steal the ball and then fake an injury so he can collect disability. You would pick me of course! But that doesn't make me a good pitcher.

fredj338
08-22-2010, 11:18
I didn't even read the rest of your post becasue this pisses me off so much I am seeing red. Only in America do we have such a polerized political system that you have to be either one or the other. I am neither. I was raised in Europe where most countries have more then one system. DO NOT ASSUME I agree Dems because I think the last Rep president sucked.

I'm not even reading any more of this thread because people like you are too busy making assumptions about me.
SO tell me then Steve, are you a libertarian or non voter or what? Even libertarian's have to choose a side. Running down the middle of the road only means you get run over from either side. You seem angry w/o cause. FWIW, I wasn't happy w/ Bush 100% either, but PBO is killing this country right now. If you don't see it now, you will in another year or two.:dunno:

leeward419
08-22-2010, 15:38
Whisky T, Nice avatar dude. Just figured out what that was. Maybee we ought to staple a copy of the constitution to her ass!
regards
jwmc

Speakeasy
08-22-2010, 15:43
Still, the logic is sound. The govt is often quick to put something in place then have to clean the mess up later. Just look at ethanol or MTB in gas. ANyone w/ even the smallest brain KNOWS this is not at all about environment. How many lead bullets do you think get fired at game across the country in a year? Certainly not enough to cause enviro issues of any kind, even to the fragile Condor.:yawn:
Nope, this is the very slow liberals coming to grips w/ the fact the 2nd amend is here to stay but there are NO such safe guards for ammo. If they can tax it they will, if they can regulate it, they will. Again, look at what is happening in Kalif to see the model for the rest of the country if things do NOT change in Nov. The libs will take it as a mandate, if they are reelected, that they can do Cap & Tax, gun control, EPA Nazi like regulations & ever higher taxes for all, not just those making more than $250K. There aren't enough of those left to milk, they'll have to come after you & me.:steamed:
In the mean time, I will still collect lead alloy where I can & be the ever present green reloader that I am, by turning it into shiney new bullets to shoot. Well, at least until they ban that too, for my own good of course.
Logic? :rofl:

As you're no doubt aware, two of the groups listed on the petition are funded by ultra left-wing anti-capitalists, according to David Horowitz' discoverthenetworks website. We're dealing with people with hidden nefarious agendas to whom logic is the enemy.

Colorado4Wheel
08-22-2010, 17:13
SO tell me then Steve, are you a libertarian or non voter or what? Even libertarian's have to choose a side. Running down the middle of the road only means you get run over from either side. You seem angry w/o cause. FWIW, I wasn't happy w/ Bush 100% either, but PBO is killing this country right now. If you don't see it now, you will in another year or two.:dunno:

You want black and white you coming to the wrong guy. The current political process of increasing debt is going to kill us. I think we should have a flat rate tax that we can easily manipulate to actually have a balanced budget. I am pro gun, pro choice (but against abortion, go figure), pro fredom of ALL religions, pro freedom of speech, I am Fiscally conservative but believe some regulation is important. I lean Republican. The pro-choice issue is a perfect way to sum me up. I personally think abortion is wrong. But some Religions believe conception is not the start of life. I have to respect that religions beliefs. I don't agree but I accept thier right to that choice. I think the two party system is a joke. I don't fit either any longer.

steve4102
08-22-2010, 17:39
This has little or nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, Lincoln or anyone in our past. It has to do with TODAY, and today we have both houses of Congress controlled by the Liberal Democrat Party. We also have a President that is not only a Democrat but a Socialist.

The Democrat Party has been chipping away at the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment for decades. Today they have all their stars lined up and they will not let this opportunity go to waist. The Democrat Party and Obama will indeed destroy this country and take away your second amendment rights, it's coming and there is nothing we can do about it. Especially when we have gun owners, NRA members and Hunters supporting these Socialists at the voting booth.:steamed:

fredj338
08-22-2010, 18:17
You want black and white you coming to the wrong guy. The current political process of increasing debt is going to kill us. I think we should have a flat rate tax that we can easily manipulate to actually have a balanced budget. I am pro gun, pro choice (but against abortion, go figure), pro fredom of ALL religions, pro freedom of speech, I am Fiscally conservative but believe some regulation is important. I lean Republican. The pro-choice issue is a perfect way to sum me up. I personally think abortion is wrong. But some Religions believe conception is not the start of life. I have to respect that religions beliefs. I don't agree but I accept thier right to that choice. I think the two party system is a joke. I don't fit either any longer.
Truce Steve, we agree more than disagree. I just get tired of all the people that voted for PBO not fessing up & saying the guy aint getting it done. He wanted the job, now do it & SHTFU about it being hard & Bush's fault. It's not how the private sector gets things done, maybe that is just the way of the public employee.:dunno:
Me, progun, fiscal conservative, anti union, pro choice (with rules), agnostic (religion has no place in any political discusison IMO), pro enviroment (within economic reason). I side Rep because I believe sides have to be taken. Give me a independant candidate I can vote for, one that can win, I'll vote for him. Wait, that was Pero wasn't it? Shame on me, I got fooled along w/ everyone else & we were stuck w/ Clinton for 8.:wow:
Never again my friend. Our system often says pick the lesser of two evils, fire or frying pan. It's why our voter turnout is so low. I like to pick whom ever gives me & the country the best odds to win. Right now, that is not the European model & is not socialist Dems & is not Obama & his Chicago flunkies.:wavey:
Oh yeah, I still think ammo bans are the wave of the socialist futre in dealing w/ gun control. One reason I favor handloading so much. When Schumer eventually gets his 100%+ ammo tax in palce, it isn't going to bother those of us that roll our own, or at least as much.

WiskyT
08-22-2010, 18:55
Whisky T, Nice avatar dude. Just figured out what that was. Maybee we ought to staple a copy of the constitution to her ass!
regards
jwmc

Thanks. I never had an avatar, here or on any other board. I was basically too lazy to figure out how to do it and not motivated enough to care. But when that jackass ogled that girl I knew I had to take immediate action.

Mind you, I have nothing against ogling, but there is such a thing as professionalism. As a truck driver, I constantly check out the college girls at the useless college I drive by 4 times in each direction a day on my route. But as a cop, I never once peaked down a blouse while in the field.

GioaJack
08-22-2010, 18:56
I'm being a good boy... proud of me?

(Eric, please take notice, not only did I not stir the pot on this one I didn't even dip in a stick.)


Jack

WiskyT
08-22-2010, 18:58
I'm being a good boy... proud of me?

(Eric, please take notice, not only did I not stir the pot on this one I didn't even dip in a stick.)


Jack

:laughabove:

Buttsniffer

GioaJack
08-22-2010, 19:13
:laughabove:

Buttsniffer


That's Mr. Buttsniffer to you.


Jack

unclebob
08-22-2010, 20:00
That's Mr. Buttsniffer to you.


Jack

I thought that was Mr. Brownnose.:tongueout:

PBKing
08-23-2010, 07:52
Fred, I'm not going to quote all that you've said, but all of it has really made me hate the lib 'n' dem platform even more than I did before. I don't understand a man that loves to hunt or shoot having anything to do with that godforsaken party. I can't stand them, and I've had enough!

I also wish some of the "newcomers" from some of the other forums would head back to where they belong. Where I belong? Dad, we are your sons and daughters and great grand babies.. Look at what you left us. Thank you very little. I've read a few lines from them taking cheap shots at some of my reloading buddies and heroes, and I don't like it at all. :steamed:

We've had fun here for a long time. One of the newer threads I just read even seemed to invite strife and lacked substance; you know the one. I just don't like this at all. Too many of our guys here are just good people, and I've become angry lately reading some of the newer sarcastic, idiotic remarks. :dunno:
Its good just to talk about it rather than bottle it up Bro. There is too much hate going on.

I use the FCD on all Auto Loader Recipes. Just to keep it GTR

garander
08-28-2010, 06:39
sorry no link. but the epa has ruled on this petition and has decided not to ban the manufacture and distribution of any ammo containing lead.
hey! now we can dust our selfs off and get ready for the next streetfight.

fredj338
08-28-2010, 08:36
sorry no link. but the epa has ruled on this petition and has decided not to ban the manufacture and distribution of any ammo containing lead.
hey! now we can dust our selfs off and get ready for the next streetfight.
Yeah, that is coming this Nov. I wonder how many here vote?:whistling:

DoctaGlockta
08-28-2010, 09:16
This is the first salvo. Dig in.

shotgunred
08-28-2010, 21:48
Yeah, that is coming this Nov. I wonder how many here vote?:whistling:

Every time since voting for Regan. The real question is will the republicans run a real candidate?

fredj338
08-29-2010, 02:07
Every time since voting for Regan. The real question is will the republicans run a real candidate?
That would be 2012 I think you are thinking of. Yes, that will be the issue then. If Palin runs we are screwed, PBO gets re elected unless the economy is still in the toilet, which it could be if the Dems hold on this Nov.
They will take this Nov win (if it happens) & feel they have a "mandate if the people" to go forth & tax & spend. That means a VAT & that means the end to our capitalist sytem. Think I am kidding? The VAT is in every country in Europe. They have had sustained unemployement over 9% for the last 10yrs or so. Then Cap & trade will come & energy prices will almost double over night. That will insure our economy tanks for years to come; 10% perpetual unemployement & millions working part time or two partime jobs just to make ends meet. It's not sacre tactics, but current state of fact in most European countries today. Top that all off with socialised medicine, as the govt will have to take over health care as we will have no money to buy our own.
Socialism, govt by the govt, for the govt, only kills the spirit of the individual worker. Voting is essential, even more so this Nov. & voting Rep is the only serious choice to at least stop the bleeding.:steamed:

steve4102
08-29-2010, 06:47
That would be 2012 I think you are thinking of. Yes, that will be the issue then. If Palin runs we are screwed, PBO gets re elected unless the economy is still in the toilet, which it could be if the Dems hold on this Nov.
They will take this Nov win (if it happens) & feel they have a "mandate if the people" to go forth & tax & spend. That means a VAT & that means the end to our capitalist sytem. Think I am kidding? The VAT is in every country in Europe. They have had sustained unemployement over 9% for the last 10yrs or so. Then Cap & trade will come & energy prices will almost double over night. That will insure our economy tanks for years to come; 10% perpetual unemployement & millions working part time or two partime jobs just to make ends meet. It's not sacre tactics, but current state of fact in most European countries today. Top that all off with socialised medicine, as the govt will have to take over health care as we will have no money to buy our own.
Socialism, govt by the govt, for the govt, only kills the spirit of the individual worker. Voting is essential, even more so this Nov. & voting Rep is the only serious choice to at least stop the bleeding.:steamed:

Well said! Part time workers will be the norm after 2012. This health care bill will force employers to keep everyone under 30 hours a week or pay enormous heath care costs, which they cannot afford. It's either part time or outof business, gunna be interesting how the Unions react to this.

fredj338
08-29-2010, 12:17
Well said! Part time workers will be the norm after 2012. This health care bill will force employers to keep everyone under 30 hours a week or pay enormous heath care costs, which they cannot afford. It's either part time or outof business, gunna be interesting how the Unions react to this.

Unfortuantely, I view what is happening now as a paradigm shift in our economic system. The private sector will become part timers, most working more than one job. The elite public sector will continue the lavish pay & benefits until the money runs out. then the govt prints more & the private sector will be asked to pick up the slack. SS "reform" is next & again, the private sector will be asked to forgo retirement while teh public sector retires @ 50 w/ 75-90% of their pay.
Eventually this new class welfare system; public vs private sector, will cause massive revolt. When the rpivate sector is just working to keep the public sector employeed w/ fat checks & early, well paid retirement, they will jsut stop. The "rich will move out of the country & any jobs they had created will evaporate. The middle class will say; "hey, why do I have to pay all these taxes so the under worked, over paid public sector gets early full paid retirement", * they will check out as well. I might as well buy a motorcycle, register it in Oregon for $25 & become a welfare road bum & never pay a dime in taxes, le the govt support me for awhile.:steamed:

WiskyT
08-29-2010, 12:45
Unfortuantely, I view what is happening now as a paradigm shift in our economic system. The private sector will become part timers, most working more than one job. The elite public sector will continue the lavish pay & benefits until the money runs out. then the govt prints more & the private sector will be asked to pick up the slack. SS "reform" is next & again, the private sector will be asked to forgo retirement while teh public sector retires @ 50 w/ 75-90% of their pay.
Eventually this new class welfare system; public vs private sector, will cause massive revolt. When the rpivate sector is just working to keep the public sector employeed w/ fat checks & early, well paid retirement, they will jsut stop. The "rich will move out of the country & any jobs they had created will evaporate. The middle class will say; "hey, why do I have to pay all these taxes so the under worked, over paid public sector gets early full paid retirement", * they will check out as well. I might as well buy a motorcycle, register it in Oregon for $25 & become a welfare road bum & never pay a dime in taxes, le the govt support me for awhile.:steamed:


That just goes to show how dumb you are. You speak of all of this as though it "will" happen. You're a day late and a dollar short.




Excuse my sarcasm at your expense, Jack would call it "gallows humor".

Historian
08-29-2010, 12:48
This is why anyone concerned with gun rights should strongly be in favor hunting rights...Zumbo learned that lesson. He nearly lost his job over it.

And quite frankly should have KNOWN the issue before he stepped into it.

shotgunred
08-29-2010, 12:50
Voting for McCain left a bad taste in my mouth. If the Republican's run another crappy candidate in 2012 BO will get reelected.

My pay & benefits are not lavish. as a matter of fact they are a bit under the local average.

I think they are going to go after our 401K and seize them and give us SS voucher for them. That is billions of dollars sitting there that they can take with no recourse.

fredj338
08-29-2010, 16:39
That just goes to show how dumb you are. You speak of all of this as though it "will" happen. You're a day late and a dollar short.




Excuse my sarcasm at your expense, Jack would call it "gallows humor".

I'm not even sure what part you disagree with, but it's all either true or coming true sooner than later. Your opinion of course, but chat me up next year & see if I am not right.

WiskyT
08-29-2010, 17:18
I'm not even sure what part you disagree with, but it's all either true or coming true sooner than later. Your opinion of course, but chat me up next year & see if I am not right.

Sorry, it all got lost in my poor articulation. I was being humorous, or trying to be, in pointing out that you were predicting that it WILL happen, when it already HAS happened.

fredj338
08-29-2010, 17:35
Sorry, it all got lost in my poor articulation. I was being humorous, or trying to be, in pointing out that you were predicting that it WILL happen, when it already HAS happened.

I thought that might be a vailed attempt at sarcasm. I agree, much has already been put in motion, but we still have time to stop the forward progress & return things to USA normal. The only people I know that want to be like Europe are those that vacation there. If the EU is so great, why don't all these pukes pushing for EU style govt just move there & leave the rest of us productive, self sustaining Americans alone?
Oh yes, I was originally born in Germany, been to many foreign countries so please any of you that think you know better, should bring something to the discussion beside your liberal leaning college ed.:tongueout: Make it a point to leave the US every few years & travel in other countries & then talk to the folks that actually live there, & you'll find there is a reason so many want to come here. Libs are trying very hard to change that though. One world govt starts with socialism.

WiskyT
08-29-2010, 18:13
No question about it Fred, the eurabians all want to have capitalism but are stuck with the mess they have. They're about due for another war over there anyway. It's been a while since somebody shot an archduke or whatever and set it off, but that place is like a forest. Lots of fuel laying around waiting for a lightning strike or a kook with a match to get them all marching off to the trenches.

PBKing
08-30-2010, 07:46
I didn't even read the rest of your post becasue this pisses me off so much I am seeing red. Only in America do we have such a polerized political system that you have to be either one or the other. I am neither. I was raised in Europe where most countries have more then one system. DO NOT ASSUME I agree Dems because I think the last Rep president sucked.

Right On ...............I could not agree more.

In spite of the 2nd being for all, you're either rep or screwed around here. Herd mentality.

Lots of words to tell future or what might happen if.... but have been proven wrong over time tooooo consistantly to be credible. The $20 hooker/tongue line is so appropo. I would rather have a beer with 20 bleeding heart libs than 1 heartless republican. Reasonable Republicans welcome.

Think Independently

PBKing
08-30-2010, 08:05
I see a lot of Pb. There is plenty out there......Relax

We gotta stop sending our scrap metals outta da country. Pb included. We sold out in the last part of the last admin. Thank you very little. We are not going to like to pay for the Quality Products coming back to WorldMart.
Obama was left without a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.
He is doing a Super Job all things considered.

Brucev
08-30-2010, 08:14
Yes, let's get our facts straight. In 2008 control of the federal govt. was seized by a regime hostile to the 2nd Amendment and allied with those who advocate for the total banning of firearms and ammunition. That regime has placed on the sc two extreme left-wing liberal judges who are clearly threats to our Constitutional rights. That regime has placed persons in control of fed. agencies who are advocates of Constitutional destruction. That regime has acted with international bodies to take steps to restrict and ultimately eliminate our Constitutional rights. That regime is in control of the epa, which is headed by a person known to be hostile to hunting (acted to eliminate sport hunting of bears). Now a petition is presented to the epa that seeks to eliminate ammunition and thus render the 2nd Amendment null/void. The sponsor is a extreme left-wing organization supportive of and sharing the same hostility to the 2nd Amendment held by the current regime. The current regime has plainly refused to obey the law when that law was politically inconvenient... cp. refusal to act against illegal aliens. The current regime has acted illegally to support it's agenda... cp. funding of abortions under the nationalized healthcare program. The current regime has acted to seize control of 1/6 of the national economy by nationalizing healthcare on a socialist scale. And now... the epa backs down on regulating lead in ammunition because the law restricts them? And a reasonable person is suppose to think that such obedience to the law of the land is to be the norm of a regime whose regard for law is based on the law of the gang? In this case, the epa did not act because the current regime is facing the growing threat of a November ballot box review of its administration. Even the msm can not provide sufficient cover for it to avoid responsibility for it's broad failures to deliver on all that the current resident of the white house promised. If November 2010 were a month ago instead of only two months away, there is every reason to expect that the epa would act precisely and exactly according to that pattern of Constitutional manipulation demonstrated by the current resident of the white house and his gangsta administration.

Brucev
08-30-2010, 08:16
I see a lot of Pb. There is plenty out there......Relax

We gotta stop sending our scrap metals outta da country. Pb included. We sold out in the last part of the last admin. Thank you very little. We are not going to like to pay for the Quality Products coming back to WorldMart.
Obama was left without a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.
He is doing a Super Job all things considered.

Some people are incapable of telling the truth. One is currently squatting in the white house. You appear to be another of the same sort.

unclebob
08-30-2010, 08:53
I see a lot of Pb. There is plenty out there......Relax

We gotta stop sending our scrap metals outta da country. Pb included. We sold out in the last part of the last admin. Thank you very little. We are not going to like to pay for the Quality Products coming back to WorldMart.
Obama was left without a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.
He is doing a Super Job all things considered.

If you care too check when Bush came into office he also was dealing with a recession. Then he had 9-11 thrown in on top of that. Some how he managed too turn the recession around. Something that this administration cannot do or does not want too. Because he thinks we should be like all the other countries in the world. And no longer being the greatest nation in the world.
Forget that he is black. Donít listen to what he says. Look at what he is doing with an open mind. Learn about the people that are in his inter circle and what do they believe in. Learn what the Republicans and Demarcates stand for. Not what you thank they stand for.

unclebob
08-30-2010, 08:55
Yes, let's get our facts straight. In 2008 control of the federal govt. was seized by a regime hostile to the 2nd Amendment and allied with those who advocate for the total banning of firearms and ammunition. That regime has placed on the sc two extreme left-wing liberal judges who are clearly threats to our Constitutional rights. That regime has placed persons in control of fed. agencies who are advocates of Constitutional destruction. That regime has acted with international bodies to take steps to restrict and ultimately eliminate our Constitutional rights. That regime is in control of the epa, which is headed by a person known to be hostile to hunting (acted to eliminate sport hunting of bears). Now a petition is presented to the epa that seeks to eliminate ammunition and thus render the 2nd Amendment null/void. The sponsor is a extreme left-wing organization supportive of and sharing the same hostility to the 2nd Amendment held by the current regime. The current regime has plainly refused to obey the law when that law was politically inconvenient... cp. refusal to act against illegal aliens. The current regime has acted illegally to support it's agenda... cp. funding of abortions under the nationalized healthcare program. The current regime has acted to seize control of 1/6 of the national economy by nationalizing healthcare on a socialist scale. And now... the epa backs down on regulating lead in ammunition because the law restricts them? And a reasonable person is suppose to think that such obedience to the law of the land is to be the norm of a regime whose regard for law is based on the law of the gang? In this case, the epa did not act because the current regime is facing the growing threat of a November ballot box review of its administration. Even the msm can not provide sufficient cover for it to avoid responsibility for it's broad failures to deliver on all that the current resident of the white house promised. If November 2010 were a month ago instead of only two months away, there is every reason to expect that the epa would act precisely and exactly according to that pattern of Constitutional manipulation demonstrated by the current resident of the white house and his gangsta administration.

:goodpost:

fredj338
08-30-2010, 13:03
If you care too check when Bush came into office he also was dealing with a recession. Then he had 9-11 thrown in on top of that. Some how he managed too turn the recession around. Something that this administration cannot do or does not want too. Because he thinks we should be like all the other countries in the world. And no longer being the greatest nation in the world.
Forget that he is black. Donít listen to what he says. Look at what he is doing with an open mind. Learn about the people that are in his inter circle and what do they believe in. Learn what the Republicans and Demarcates stand for. Not what you thank they stand for.
Bob stop dealing in facts, liberal Dems hate that. All that matters is how you feel about a given situation.:yawn: It shows as they still want to attack Bush for something that is obviously Dem congress/Senate & PBO problem.:upeyes:

WiskyT
08-30-2010, 13:34
We had full employment under W for 6 or 7 years, despite the dot.com bubble and 9-11. We achieved that through a pro-business, low tax, government. We had two wars to deal with on top of all that, and still a historically strong economy. FOUR YEARS AGO the dems took control of the congress and wouldn't you know it, things went down hill.

Regardless, bho promised all the gullable idots that he knew just how to fix things. The first thing he did after his election regarding transitioning to POTUS was? Anyone? Anyone? PBKing? Anyone?










He went to Hawaii and ran on the beach for photographers with no shirt on like he was vladmir putin.


When he finally got around to assuming the role of POTUS, his first acts were to spend trillions of dollars paying back the lefties who got him into office, promising it would keep unemployment below 8.5%. So now, almost two years into his term and unemployment at or around 10%, with GDP at about 1% and declining, we are told we will have a "lost decade and a ****ty economy is "the new normal".

It's gotten so bad that the Chm of the Joint Chiefs says we will be in danger of not being able to pay the troops salaries or buy munitions. Welcome to the turd world.

fredj338
08-30-2010, 14:11
HA! People wanted change & we certainly got that:
10% unemployment
$1.6T deficite & climbing (a mesely $400B under Bush at it's worst, & the Dems complained loudly)
Still at war
more taxes coming, VAT is on the table (for those that have no idea, that is very bad)
govt pay & benefits running rampant
moving to socialised, govt controlled health care
moving to permanent $5/gal gas (cap & tax)
open border policy still
One more liberal judge & your 2nd ammend rights will be back in danger
Yeah, how is that "hopy/changy thing working for ya"?:upeyes:

kshutt
08-31-2010, 05:26
I see a lot of Pb. There is plenty out there......Relax

We gotta stop sending our scrap metals outta da country. Pb included. We sold out in the last part of the last admin. Thank you very little. We are not going to like to pay for the Quality Products coming back to WorldMart.
Obama was left without a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.
He is doing a Super Job all things considered.

Poor Barry. He's doing a super job? Man, you need to get off that crack pipe before you post from now on. You're surrounded here by people that don't think like you do. Just sayin.'

fredj338
08-31-2010, 12:16
Poor Barry. He's doing a super job? Man, you need to get off that crack pipe before you post from now on. You're surrounded here by people that don't think like you do. Just sayin.'
Don't get me wrong, I have no issue w/ diversity of thought, but following blindly just gives you things like Hitler in 1936. One has to be a realist, ya know, if it walks like a duck?:upeyes: