Interesting New Fiocchi 9mm [Archive] - Glock Talk

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BOGE
08-20-2010, 20:26
Fiocchi 9MM Luger 92gr EMB (Expansion Mono-Block).

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/1205.php

More info: http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=26704

Berto
08-20-2010, 20:56
Looks interesting, although my initial feeling is that the boolits are too light.

Little Joe
08-20-2010, 20:58
Looks interesting, although my initial feeling is that the boolits are too light.

I think so, too. Boge likes those light ones, though, but you already knew that. :rofl:

Merkavaboy
08-20-2010, 21:19
Fiocchi 9MM Luger 92gr EMB (Expansion Mono-Block).

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/1205.php

More info: http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=26704

Already got my 4 boxes of Fiocchi Tundra 92gr EMB.

Apparently Fiocchi bought the rights from Hirtenberger to make this ammo and they had made it for the European market before being allowed to import it to the U.S. I believe that Federal's patent rights for the Hydra-Shok bullet design was what prevented Fiocchi from importing the EMB load up until now.

BOGE
08-20-2010, 23:51
I think so, too. Boge likes those light ones, though, but you already knew that. :rofl:

A common myth is that light bullets don`t penetrate deep enough which is total BS and dependent upon bullet design, velocity & bullet material, e.g., lead, solid copper, etc. Of course, ``deep enough`` is a relative term as any woman will attest to. :supergrin:

Here´s a link to an FBI 4 layer denim test with Fed. 9mm 115 gr. +p+ BPLE which penetrated 12.5`` & expanded to 0.680 and is a proven ``manstopper`` although some would have us believe it is Fred Flintstone technology. :wavey:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6951&SearchTerms=,9mm,bple

Glock19Fan
08-20-2010, 23:55
Looks interesting. I am guessing it is composed mostly of copper, especially the center post, to all the penetration. The jacket/petals surround it, allowing expansion. While I beleive the looks and overall design resemble the Hydrashok, I dont think the intention was to copy it.

The reason for the post in the Hydrashok is to limit the amount of fluid allowed in the cavity of the bullet, cuasing a delay in expansion and thus allowing for deeper penetration. IIRC the Hydrashok was designed after the 1986 Miami shootout.

I wouldnt mind getting my hands on a box of these just to test out, but I wouldnt think the expansion would be too reliable, especially through barriers such as denim. I am also somewhat disappointed in the velocity. For the weight of the bullet, I would expect a foreign bullet to be in the 1400 FPS range.

unit1069
08-21-2010, 07:25
There's really not much information given about the material or design of the bullet itself.

unit1069
08-21-2010, 07:29
Looks interesting. I am guessing it is composed mostly of copper, especially the center post, to all the penetration.

But the price of 50 rounds is a bit less than $25. Fiocchi is a "value" ammo company but that price seems too low for all-copper bullet ammo, unless Fiocchi wants to make this ammo a loss leader for the time being.

Found this on another site:

Bullet material: Guilding metal CuZn 10

Glock19Fan
08-21-2010, 09:34
Isnt that the material used in jacketing? Or was it copper and nickel?

Either way, I am not going to try to convince anyone its solid copper or not. I just dont think it is too far fetched. I think the main reason the solid copper bullets available are so expensive is becuase they are domestically manufactured, and becuase the companies that load them charge such a price that allows the bullets themselves to be inflated for reloading purposes. Besides that, they do have a fair amount of technology behind them, since they seem to do very well expanding through barriers.

I am pretty much just rambling, but reguardless of the material, I am betting it is basically lead free, and made of a fairly hard material, such a copper of a copper alloy.

Little Joe
08-21-2010, 11:22
A common myth is that light bullets don`t penetrate deep enough which is total BS and dependent upon bullet design, velocity & bullet material, e.g., lead, solid copper, etc. Of course, ``deep enough`` is a relative term as any woman will attest to. :supergrin:

Here´s a link to an FBI 4 layer denim test with Fed. 9mm 115 gr. +p+ BPLE which penetrated 12.5`` & expanded to 0.680 and is a proven ``manstopper`` although some would have us believe it is Fred Flintstone technology. :wavey:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6951&SearchTerms=,9mm,bple

I have no doubt they will get the job done. The proof is in the puddin'. They HAVE. Repeat as necessary and switch to the failure drill if you are not getting the desired result. It's also said that a bullet may have to go through forearm bones and the heavier weight bullets can help with that.

TDS has 50 round BPLE boxes available for $19. In case you don't know already and might need some. They're listed under Assorted Carry Ammo.
:wavey:


LJ

BOGE
08-21-2010, 15:20
Isnt that the material used in jacketing? Or was it copper and nickel?

Either way, I am not going to try to convince anyone its solid copper or not. I just dont think it is too far fetched. I think the main reason the solid copper bullets available are so expensive is becuase they are domestically manufactured, and becuase the companies that load them charge such a price that allows the bullets themselves to be inflated for reloading purposes. Besides that, they do have a fair amount of technology behind them, since they seem to do very well expanding through barriers.

I am pretty much just rambling, but reguardless of the material, I am betting it is basically lead free, and made of a fairly hard material, such a copper of a copper alloy.

It`s not a solid copper bullet. It has a tungsten insert.

SIGShooter
08-21-2010, 19:19
Tagged for ammo link.

Thanks Boge!!!

Little Joe
08-22-2010, 10:18
From another forum on the the 9BPLE's effect on bones.

"I can only address the 9BPLE +P+.Wicked round.What pistol are you going to shoot it in.Very few will handle much of it.In the wrong pistol it will be dangerous to get hit with an ejected round,some body standing to your right.It is in my HD round.Only thing I can say first hand ,a hit in a leg bone just below the knee cap will almost amputate a leg."

DocKWL
08-22-2010, 10:26
A common myth is that light bullets don`t penetrate deep enough which is total BS and dependent upon bullet design, velocity & bullet material, e.g., lead, solid copper, etc. Of course, ``deep enough`` is a relative term as any woman will attest to. :supergrin:

Here´s a link to an FBI 4 layer denim test with Fed. 9mm 115 gr. +p+ BPLE which penetrated 12.5`` & expanded to 0.680 and is a proven ``manstopper`` although some would have us believe it is Fred Flintstone technology. :wavey:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6951&SearchTerms=,9mm,bple

There is no indication found in the link provided that FBI protocol was followed, hence making the results invalid.

DocKWL
08-22-2010, 10:28
From another forum on the the 9BPLE's effect on bones.

"I can only address the 9BPLE +P+.Wicked round.What pistol are you going to shoot it in.Very few will handle much of it.In the wrong pistol it will be dangerous to get hit with an ejected round,some body standing to your right.It is in my HD round.Only thing I can say first hand ,a hit in a leg bone just below the knee cap will almost amputate a leg."

As is true of every other practical handgun caliber.

BOGE
08-22-2010, 11:17
There is no indication found in the link provided that FBI protocol was followed, hence making the results invalid.


Evan Marshall follows FBI protocol with calibrated gelatin to the best of my knowledge thereby making it valid. However, more importantly those ``in the know`` know that Fed. BPLE is a winner.

unit1069
08-22-2010, 11:33
Interesting New Fiocchi 9mm

I think Fiocchi is becoming an interesting ammo company.

I haven't been involved with shooting for long --- started around 2005 --- and I began using Fiocchi range ammo almost from the start. Relatively inexpensive and always seems to be available when even WWB isn't.

Companies like Double Tap used to offer premium JHP self-defense rounds at reasonable prices until Speer began restricting Gold Dots to other companies. I've been hoarding what little Double Tap Gold Dots I have left.

In the meantime Fiocchi has stepped up with its Extrema line that uses the Hornady XTP bullet. Like Gold Dot, the XTP is a proven design with many satisfied customers. I hope Hornady doesn't begin restricting their bullets like Speer apparently has.

I don't know if this new 90-grain European bullet design will prove out but it's good that there are companies like Fiocchi who are sterpping up during times of premium ammo drought. I've read that Federal built its national business from relative obscurity at a time when quality of the established ammo companies was on the wane.

Jim Watson
08-22-2010, 12:52
It`s not a solid copper bullet. It has a tungsten insert.

That would not be legal; a tungsten core would make it an Official Armor Piercing Handgun Bullet and not allowed for American Commoners.

In fact if some fed had studied metallurgy, he would realize that gilding metal, being an alloy of copper and zinc, is a form of brass, which is also in the definition of Armor Piercing and therefore not allowed.

Glock19Fan
08-22-2010, 17:17
That would not be legal; a tungsten core would make it an Official Armor Piercing Handgun Bullet and not allowed for American Commoners.

In fact if some fed had studied metallurgy, he would realize that gilding metal, being an alloy of copper and zinc, is a form of brass, which is also in the definition of Armor Piercing and therefore not allowed.

I agree with this, however, I have no clue how DPX is not considered AP becuase of its material. It is becuase it is an expanding bullet?

DocKWL
08-22-2010, 18:15
Evan Marshall follows FBI protocol with calibrated gelatin to the best of my knowledge thereby making it valid. However, more importantly those ``in the know`` know that Fed. BPLE is a winner.

According to the link you provided, Evan Marshall did not conduct the test.

PlasticGuy
08-22-2010, 22:30
Here´s a link to an FBI 4 layer denim test with Fed. 9mm 115 gr. +p+ BPLE which penetrated 12.5`` & expanded to 0.680 and is a proven ``manstopper`` although some would have us believe it is Fred Flintstone technology.
I killed a deer with a single 9mmBPLE hit a few years ago. It had a broken leg and I didn't have a rifle, so it was the humane option.

Internal damage was extensive, and the animal expired in 5-7 seconds. I'm still a .45 guy at heart, but it's more emotional than objective. The 9mm can be a fantastic performer with the right load. This new Fiocci load looks interesting. Is there a .45 version yet?

vafish
08-23-2010, 10:36
According to the link you provided, Evan Marshall did not conduct the test.


This is getting way off topic, But the test was done by Evan and his jello junkies. The moderator that posted the results was just one of the people there at the time and was collecting all the data.

I'd like to see some tests of this new Fiochi bullet.


Found this in a google search:

http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm

It's wet pack and clay, not gel tests.

BOGE
08-23-2010, 11:53
Thanks Vafish, that`s a helluva post!! :shocked:


Conclusion:
I know that also these tests leave plenty room for discussion. Still: I see arguments to carry a .45 and arguments to carry a 9x19mm. What totally suprised all of us is that the .40 did not convince in any setup.
The EMB seems to be very close to perfect. It expands perfectly in clay and penetrates perfectly in and after hard targets. And heavy clothing doesn't prevent the EMB from expanding therefter at all.