Issues loading a batch of .45, please chime in... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Glock21sf-miami
08-22-2010, 18:33
Fellow reloaders,

After loading around 3,000 rounds without any problems, I have come across a couple of issues I would like to get some feedback on.

My favorite recipe is 5.0 grs of WST pushing a 200gr JFP from Montana Gold.

Last time I shot some of my reloads with S&B brass, my G36 failed to chamber a couple of rounds. When I took the rounds out, the bullet was completely pushed in. Today I tried to load some S&B brass and since I had the experience before, I tested the loads by putting some pressure on the bullet and they slid inside the case completely without any effort. This does not happen with any other brass I load (Win and PMC mostly). The batch of S&B brass has been loaded 3 times and I did not have a problem with my G21 or G30 before. However, it's obvious the blame is on the rounds loaded on S&B brass, not the gun.
Why would this brass lose so much neck tension? Is there anything I can do? I tried crimping some more but it didn't work. You can push the bullet in by just applying little pressure with the finger. I can also pull the bullet out with my bare fingers.

I also have another question. I have a couple of batches of Winchester and PMC brass that has been loaded 3-4 times and I don't have the distinctive feel that occurs when seating the primer. How do I know when the primer pocket is too loose? At shich point should I toss the brass?

Look forward to your comments. Hopefully Jack and Fred will also chime in...

labdwakin
08-22-2010, 18:42
Well, either pitch the brass or getta taper crimp die would be my suggestion.

fredj338
08-22-2010, 19:30
Why would this brass lose so much neck tension? Is there anything I can do? I tried crimping some more but it didn't work. You can push the bullet in by just applying little pressure with the finger. I can also pull the bullet out with my bare fingers.
Brass can certainly lose it's ductilety & neck tension. There really isn't a whole lot you can do w/ crimp, it just springs back. You can try to save those for loading lead bullets only. They run 0.001" larger typically & that should let you get a few more reloads out of them. I've got some old Win that has been loaded at least 15X, can barely read the headstamp & they still work fine for plinking loads.

PCJim
08-22-2010, 21:12
Miami, you might want to recheck your die adjustments. It's a long shot, but maybe it's possible your resizing die has worked itself a bit loose?

Fred didn't address the primer pocket issue and I really don't have what I'd call a definitive answer. As long as the primer doesn't fall out and there are no flash/soot marks around the primer after firing, it should be tight enough to do it's secondary chore of sealing the pocket. If you are seeing soot around the primer, then it is not sealing the pocket and it is time to discard the brass.

VN350X10
08-22-2010, 21:30
Some lots of S&B brass have had soft/hard issues.....It's not the most consistant brass out there.
G36's aren't known for being reload friendly either, while a G21 will usually eat anything thrown it's way.
Suggest you trash the S&B and replace it with Win. or Federal. Or just use the S&B for plinking loads, reload it one more time & let it fly. Great for GSSF, as they're "Lost Brass" matches.
I personally load only Win. brass in .45, keeps life simpler.
Rem. would be my 3rd choice, only because I've had better results with Win. & Federal.

uncle albert

Zombie Steve
08-22-2010, 22:22
One more possibility - are your bullets actually .451???



Can I just throw out there that a taper crimp has nothing to do with holding the bullet in place? You go too far and you'll cut into the bullet and buckle the brass. Then it will just be deformed and loose.

steve4102
08-23-2010, 06:13
One more possibility - are your bullets actually .451???
.

I would check your Bullet dia as well. I had a batch of MG 230gr FMJ that measured .449, I sent them back for replacement.

Fire_Medic
08-23-2010, 07:28
The S&B brass is known for being very inconsistent. I myself stopped loading it about a year ago, just not worth the hassle. Check all your adjustments and ditch the S&B brass and you should be good to go.

unclebob
08-23-2010, 07:42
Run a magnet over the S&B brass. You might have steel cases. They look brass but are steel.

albyihat
08-23-2010, 11:30
glock21 i had a similar problem with berrys bulets and speer brass. after about 3-4 reloads the case tension was just not there and i was able to push the bullet back into the case with little prressure. i then went to just the winchester brass but after 5 or so reloads the same thing happened. i tried using a LFC die this did not help at all and made things worse by putting to much crimp on the bullet ( my fault not the die i was trying to eliminate setback with to much crimp) the answer to my problems was redding dies redding dies size the brass smaller in .40sw then all other manufactures (i called them all and got specs) i don't know about other calibers but with a little research this should be easy to find out. i also stopped using my brass after 5 reloads. the threat of setback and possible KB is just to great to mess around with pushing things past 5 reloads (for me). a lot of people told me it was my setup when it was just the brass. and yes the berrys measured .401 and still i was able to push them in with little effort.

GLShooter
08-23-2010, 17:07
Back in the early 80's R-P brass would do this. It was thinner and springier and would not hold the tension using regular 45 ACP dies. Bullet set back was real concern.

I first took an expander from a Dillon 300 44 Mag set up and used that. It gave me plenty of tension. Later I just took a 45 expander/powder drop and turned the expansion part down a few thousandths and that worked very well for years on all my 45 ACP cases.

Greg

dudel
08-23-2010, 17:12
Run a magnet over the S&B brass. You might have steel cases. They look brass but are steel.

Bingo. S&B, in my book, is just a step (a small one at that) above Amerc.

If it turns out to be brass, then I'd check to see if it's work hardened. You can undo that by annealing the cases. However, for 45ACP it's not worth the effort as cheap as 45ACP brass is.

Best be in the long run is get a better batch of brass. I'm guessing you got a good deal on the S&B ammo, and used that as your source of once-fired brass.

chris in va
08-23-2010, 17:16
As noted either you've got some steel S&B going there or the regular stuff which is very thick from what I've found and not terribly workable.

noylj
08-23-2010, 17:23
Did you measure the case O.D. after sizing and the case wall thickness? It sounds like the brass is too thin in the case wall. If you had a massive quantity of this brass, you could get an undersized sizing die or a smaller diameter expander dieóonce you've taken some measurements of "good" and "bad" brass to determine where the problem is.
Basic recommendation is to chuck the brass.

Glock21sf-miami
08-23-2010, 20:55
Thanks for your input! To answer some of your questions:
1- That DOES NOT happen when I load any other brass. The brass that has given me the most trouble is Blazer Brass.
2- I have not measured, but if I can't make the brass hold the bullet... then I don't want to use the brass regardless of the measurements. I think it would be interesting as research.
3- Yes, my bullets are .451 and very consistent.
4- Dies should be OK since my loads with Win and PMC brass are just perfect. I have fired thousands.
5- I certainly expect my brass to last longer than 5X. I was thinking more like 12 to 15 reloads. 5.0 grs of WST is close to the max (5.1 grs as per lyman), but at the end recoils a bit less than factory.

I do not load lead because i have little ones at home. I'll just toss the S&B brass...

unclebob
08-24-2010, 07:16
Thanks for your input! To answer some of your questions:
1- That DOES NOT happen when I load any other brass. The brass that has given me the most trouble is Blazer Brass.
2- I have not measured, but if I can't make the brass hold the bullet... then I don't want to use the brass regardless of the measurements. I think it would be interesting as research.
3- Yes, my bullets are .451 and very consistent.
4- Dies should be OK since my loads with Win and PMC brass are just perfect. I have fired thousands.
5- I certainly expect my brass to last longer than 5X. I was thinking more like 12 to 15 reloads. 5.0 grs of WST is close to the max (5.1 grs as per lyman), but at the end recoils a bit less than factory.

I do not load lead because i have little ones at home. I'll just toss the S&B brass...

Did you run a magnet over them?

Glock21sf-miami
08-24-2010, 15:09
Did you run a magnet over them?
No uncle, I have not run a magnet over them yet. I'm not even sure I have a magnet....

GLShooter
08-24-2010, 15:14
No uncle, I have not run a magnet over them yet. I'm not even sure I have a magnet....

What? You don't have a refrigerator? :wow:

Greg

unclebob
08-24-2010, 15:15
No uncle, I have not run a magnet over them yet. I'm not even sure I have a magnet....


Just would like too know if they where steel or not. You donít even have a refrigerator magnet?

Glock21sf-miami
08-25-2010, 10:11
I'll try to find a magnet around and run it over the brass. I'll keep you posted.

dsmw5142
08-25-2010, 18:45
If it's in your budget, a heavy duty magnet works great to sort through a bunch at once. I have a large magnet meant for retrieving anchors and fishing tackle that I got at Walmart on clearance. A cheap magnetic CB radio antenna works great too.

GLShooter
08-25-2010, 18:53
If it's in your budget, a heavy duty magnet works great to sort through a bunch at once. I have a large magnet meant for retrieving anchors and fishing tackle that I got at Walmart on clearance. A cheap magnetic CB radio antenna works great too.

Harbor Freight sells great magnets cheap. I've 'dredged" through about 10,000 pounds of brass looking for those little steel cased gems!!

Greg

VN350X10
08-25-2010, 20:23
If you're good at scrounging, & your "CRB" card is up to date, there's usually a King Kong magnet lurking in a microwave oven, & folks throw them away all the time.

uncle albert

GioaJack
08-25-2010, 21:02
Rub a stick pin with a piece of silk, it magnetizes it. It may not pick up and empty case but you'll be able to find your way out of the woods.

I saw it on Man vs. Wild so it must be true. :whistling:


Jack

Zombie Steve
08-25-2010, 22:31
Rub a stick pin with a piece of silk, it magnetizes it. It may not pick up and empty case but you'll be able to find your way out of the woods.

I saw it on Man vs. Wild so it must be true. :whistling:


Jack

Well heck, Jack. If you're used to using a sun dial to time your shots, then why wouldn't you believe Man vs. Wild?

:cowboy:

fredj338
08-27-2010, 02:21
Thanks for your input! To answer some of your questions:
1- That DOES NOT happen when I load any other brass. The brass that has given me the most trouble is Blazer Brass.
2- I have not measured, but if I can't make the brass hold the bullet... then I don't want to use the brass regardless of the measurements. I think it would be interesting as research.
3- Yes, my bullets are .451 and very consistent.
4- Dies should be OK since my loads with Win and PMC brass are just perfect. I have fired thousands.
5- I certainly expect my brass to last longer than 5X. I was thinking more like 12 to 15 reloads. 5.0 grs of WST is close to the max (5.1 grs as per lyman), but at the end recoils a bit less than factory.

I do not load lead because i have little ones at home. I'll just toss the S&B brass...
A nice perk of using WST is the soft recoil. FWIW, loading lead bullets is not unsafe around children, unless you are going to let them play w/ the bullets. It's not like the lead goes flying off the bullets during the reloading process.:dunno: My three boys all managed to grow up w/o issues & I even cast my own, just not with them around.

Rico567
08-27-2010, 05:20
I'm fortunate to have access to sufficient brass that I can be picky about what I load. I had the AMERC experience a number of years ago, so now I'm more cautious. I'll load Winchester, R-P, Federal, Speer.....and not much else. There's a relationship among the size die, the case, and the bullet that must be maintained for this not to become a problem, and unless they're making new unfired cases to sell, case manufacturers obviously don't have reloading as a first priority.