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CatsMeow
08-22-2010, 21:50
And I had to learn about it on Yahoo news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100823/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_bus_hostages

MANILA, Philippines – A dismissed policeman armed with an automatic rifle seized a bus in the Philippine capital Monday with 26 passengers aboard, most of them South Korean tourists, in a bid to demand his reinstatement, police said.

Police sharpshooters took positions around the white-blue-red bus, which was parked near a downtown Manila park, and negotiations to free the hostages were under way, said deputy director of Manila police Alex Gutierrez.

The hostage-taker was armed with an M16 rifle and demanding that he be given back his job on the police force, Gutierrez said.

jimbullet
08-23-2010, 04:34
This has attracted international media coverage, particularly CNN.

Glock_19_9x19
08-23-2010, 06:12
........

edtf
08-23-2010, 07:15
oh man ugly outcome :(

Young Once
08-23-2010, 07:26
What a senseless way to die and to involve so many others. What a shame!

9MX
08-23-2010, 07:57
We're a hostage drama friendly country.

Wp.22
08-23-2010, 08:26
Beep beep beep busina muna

markieboy
08-23-2010, 09:02
Epic fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRt1aNsNM0c

choi_tan2000
08-23-2010, 09:13
prayer to the victims :crying:

Punisher_nbi45
08-23-2010, 09:16
It's hard to stay on the sidelines, and it's rude to be a "Monday morning quarterback", so I won't.

Too bad too many people lost their lives.....

Hopefully, it will never happen again....

Allegra
08-23-2010, 09:22
that was darn big hammer

galit na galit ako sa media pero I realized I'm stuck in front of the tv, watchin it all

9MX
08-23-2010, 09:28
The PNP and the media didn't learn their lessons nung Ducat hostage taking. Swerte nun, bluff si Ducat, dito natuluyan na.

San ka naman nakakita ng assault tapos may blow by blow coverage ng media, tapos yung hostage taker may TV sa loob ng bus.

Because the people have a right to know? Mas importante ba yun kesa sa safety ng hostages at safety ng assault team?

In my opinion as an observer, the ground commander bungled this one, super big time

BrassKnuckle
08-23-2010, 09:28
Kung kelan umaangat na sana yung tourist industry natin... Talaga nga naman ang Pinas, we always manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Punisher_nbi45
08-23-2010, 09:32
The PNP and the media didn't learn their lessons nung Ducat hostage taking. Swerte nun, bluff si Ducat, dito natuluyan na.

San ka naman nakakita ng assault tapos may blow by blow coverage ng media, tapos yung hostage taker may TV sa loob ng bus.

Because the people have a right to know? Mas importante ba yun kesa sa safety ng hostages at safety ng assault team?

In my opinion as an observer, the ground commander bungled this one, super big time

+1! I agree.

BrassKnuckle
08-23-2010, 09:34
In my opinion as an observer, the ground commander bungled this one, super big time

You can say that again. I don't think he even let his swat team practice the assault on an identical bus. Ayun, dami tuloy unexpected difficulties that screwed things up for them.

Allegra
08-23-2010, 09:55
You can say that again. I don't think he even let his swat team practice the assault on an identical bus. Ayun, dami tuloy unexpected difficulties that screwed things up for them.


sabi sa abs they did daw, malapit sa us embassy
Practiced the assault 8x
Nga lang , iba talaga pag totohanan na
when there was heavy rain at media's nakakasilaw daw na mga ilaw

Dun sa assault mismo , what went wrong?
equipment? tactics?
Dun sa entry ba nagsimula problema?

9MX
08-23-2010, 10:07
Dun sa assault mismo , what went wrong?
equipment? tactics?
Dun sa entry ba nagsimula problema?

1. ground commander lost control. the hostage taker was provoked when he saw his brother et al being arrested. mpd tried to do this discretely,but the brother was able to escape them and go to the media. why? because they didn't cuff him, malamang kasi kabaro:whistling:

2. the blow by blow by account took out the element of surprise on the side of the assault team because the bus has a TV.

3. lack of equipment-no ladders, no tactical lights.

4. the assault was so slow and parang walang play kumbaga sa basketball, so i guess lack in training

bikethief
08-23-2010, 10:14
Wow. I just finished watching the highlights of the assault. Who fired the full-auto mag dump inside the bus? Hope it wasn't one of the SWAT guys.

A lot of lives were wasted today. I don't care what anybody else says but better planning and training could have saved some bloodshed.

This is bad. Very bad. I can't get over how BAD this was handled by both the PNP and the Media.

Our president is an avid shooter. He should appreciate the value of a well timed sniper shot.

Our Vice-President is a man who has excellent people skills and connects with the masses. He should know when negotiations have gone south and he should have used the presence of family to talk Mendoza down.

Our Chief PNP is a man who....well. Hehe. 'Wag nalang.

Allegra
08-23-2010, 10:16
1. ground commander lost control. the hostage taker was provoked when he saw his brother et al being arrested. mpd tried to do this discretely,but the brother was able to escape them and go to the media. why? because they didn't cuff him, malamang kasi kabaro:whistling:

2. the blow by blow by account took out the element of surprise on the side of the assault team because the bus has a TV.

3. lack of equipment-no ladders, no tactical lights.

4. the assault was so slow and parang walang play kumbaga sa basketball, so i guess lack in training

dunnga ako nagtataka, they breaking the windows pero how were they going to climb aboard?
Pllus dapat yata they should have bought 2 or 3 smaller hammers, unless they were using that huge hammer as a diversion

bikethief
08-23-2010, 10:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCINwMkem8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbwAMS5tRAA

What could have been.

choi_tan2000
08-23-2010, 10:23
1. ground commander lost control. the hostage taker was provoked when he saw his brother et al being arrested. mpd tried to do this discretely,but the brother was able to escape them and go to the media. why? because they didn't cuff him, malamang kasi kabaro:whistling:

2. the blow by blow by account took out the element of surprise on the side of the assault team because the bus has a TV.

3. lack of equipment-no ladders, no tactical lights.

4. the assault was so slow and parang walang play kumbaga sa basketball, so i guess lack in training

+1 agree

Eye Cutter
08-23-2010, 10:31
What a great job the pnp assault team did for the Philippines' image! woohoo! more! more!

eccch!

Allegra
08-23-2010, 11:21
Maganda naman sinabi ni Noynoy about the assault
Masyado dynamic, nagkabiglaan, too many variables

Pero I really blame the media
I really belive there was nothing the PNP could do that would have stopped them unless they started shooting media people
Di papaawat mga yan, w/ battle for the ratings

And people like us morbidly glued sa tv feeding these monsters

Allegra
08-23-2010, 11:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCINwMkem8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbwAMS5tRAA

What could have been.


did you guys read the comments underneath?

not a good time for a trip to the nearest disneyland

Eye Cutter
08-23-2010, 11:40
shiyet! papunta pa naman ako sa beijing sa weekend! delikado, baka magkaroon ng hate attacks sa mga Filipino tourists!

di bale, mukha naman ako intsik!

Glock_19_9x19
08-23-2010, 11:49
Again, we have witnessed the sheer utter stupidity of the Philippine National Police in handling hostage situations. My prayers go out to the families of the slain Chinese hostages.

Wp.22
08-23-2010, 15:39
Tibay pala ng windshield ng bus

MAJINKONG
08-23-2010, 16:21
Again, we have witnessed the sheer utter stupidity of the Philippine National Police in handling hostage situations. My prayers go out to the families of the slain Chinese hostages.


Hinde PNP/swat ang nag assault.... mga taga MMDA yun, may dalang MASO eh.

PMMA97
08-23-2010, 17:31
Break all the windows that can be broken THEN deploy teargas without any of the SWAT operators having gas masks.

Epic fail.

Kinabahan na ako nung makita ko si MPD Homicide Chief Margarejo...

mucho
08-23-2010, 17:34
Again, we have witnessed the sheer utter stupidity of the Philippine National Police in handling hostage situations. My prayers go out to the families of the slain Chinese hostages.

Kahiya hiya tayo sa CNN at international news.Pinagtatawanan tayo sa ibang bansa sigurado.I don't know kung me mukhang maihaharap pa si P-noy sa USA pag visit nya don next month.I really pity our president this time,sinira nang MPD ang image natin.Sana BOG na lang ang nagrescue!

cebuboy
08-23-2010, 18:09
Suicide by cop?

Tukmol
08-23-2010, 18:18
It's very disheartening to see the state of our law enforcement capabilities. I guess the question is what can we do to help? :)

MAJINKONG
08-23-2010, 18:31
It's very disheartening to see the state of our law enforcement capabilities. I guess the question is what can we do to help? :)
with the current attitude of the CPNP towards law abiding FA holders????... no way man!

edtf
08-23-2010, 18:41
with the current attitude of the CPNP to law abiding FA holders????... no way man!

Speaking of CPNP and law abiding FA holders...... Did Mendoza know that it is illegal to bring an HPR outside of residence without the proper papers??? That is if the m16 he used was even licensed :freak:

Haaaaayyyyyy........ this is really sad :(

I also feel that the apprehension to end it decisively and quickly was because he is/was MPD

paltik454
08-23-2010, 18:47
Tibay pala ng windshield ng bus

Yup they are made from shattered proof glass. I wish they used shaped charges/explosives to break the windows.

choi_tan2000
08-23-2010, 19:23
shiyet! papunta pa naman ako sa beijing sa weekend! delikado, baka magkaroon ng hate attacks sa mga Filipino tourists!

di bale, mukha naman ako intsik!

oo nga doc, panu ako di ako mukhang intsik shanghai nmn punta ko .

frankly i dont give all the blame to the cops they really risk their lives, i blame the PNP itself for not providing proper training and equipment. more of crisis management ang problem the ground commander didnt manage well the area, including the media. first dapat me cellphone jammer agad and cut at communication incoming to the bus including tv radios etc. also the team leader should have studied first the schematics of the bus before the breech.


these all and many more should be in "manual" that every SWAT or any police units must have in their mind and heart. is there any manual?? for diff scenarios where their training should be aligned.

and they should be well equip sana.......

isuzu
08-23-2010, 19:29
Watching several footages of the situation, the authorities had several chances of taking him out using snipers in the early stages of the confrontation.

As for the media, they're a bunch of selfish individuals (I wish I could use stronger words in this forum). They didn't care about the welfare of the hostages. Walang konsiyensiya, walang delicadeza. Ethics down the drain with regards to the media. To them, what mattered was being first to deliver the news.

ahtsay
08-23-2010, 20:01
Did any of you guys see this cop try to throw a flash bang into the bus sa may side door near the rear? Tapos hinde pumasok yung flash bang, bumalik sa kanya at pumutok sa ground? It wasn't very clear sa TV, kasi naka zoom-in eh.
Didn't they know the bus door opens IN and not OUT? If they want to pull the door out to break it, they should have used a steel chain, not some dental floss.
Guys na pupunta ng China, bili kayo patches in Chinese flag, tapos dikit niyo sa hats niyo hehehe!! Tell them your grandfather is Chinese, pero hinde na kayo marunong mag Chinese. Baka invite pa kayo sa bahay nila para mag dinner :)

CatsMeow
08-23-2010, 20:09
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_philippines_bus_hostages

MANILA, Philippines – It looked like a hostage rescue in slow motion: Police creeping up on the bus with sledgehammers and smashing first one window, then another, then trying and failing to rip open the door.

When they finally got inside, authorities said, they found nine bodies: eight Hong Kong tourists and the ex-policeman who had seized the bus to demand his job back.

The bloody denouement to the 12-hour drama in the heart of the Philippine capital, witnessed live on TV, rattled a country already accustomed to kidnappings and violence blamed on Muslim rebels. It provoked demands from the Hong Kong government for an explanation, and an acknowledgment from Philippine President Benigno Aquino III that his police need more training and equipment.

It was 10:15 a.m. Monday in Manila when Rolando Mendoza, 55 and married with three children, hitched a ride with the tourists as they visited historic sites in the city. He wore a camouflage uniform and carried an M16 rifle but didn't seem unusual in the heavily policed capital.

Then he announced that he was taking the travelers hostage to win back his job.

According to newspaper reports, the former senior inspector was among five officers who had been charged with robbery, extortion and grave threats after a Manila hotel chef filed a complaint alleging they falsely accused him of using drugs to extort money. Mendoza was fired last year but claimed he was innocent.

With the bus parked on a Manila park parade ground, Mendoza stuck leaflets on windows, handwritten in English, saying "big mistake to correct a big wrong decision," demanding media attention and threatening "big deal will start after 3 p.m. today."

At first, matters proceeded peacefully. The hijacker freed nine hostages — three women, three children and two men — leaving 15 tourists on board. Police sealed the area and brought food for the hostages, along with fuel to keep the bus' air conditioning running in the 32-degree-Celsius (90 F) heat.

Then negotiations began to go awry. Mendoza demanded a signed promise that his case would be reviewed, but its delivery was delayed for hours, in part by Manila's notorious traffic, and when it finally arrived he rejected it as insufficient.

The hijacker's brother Gregorio, a policeman, was flown in to talk to him through the driver's window but grew so agitated in claiming Mendoza had been unfairly sacked that police hustled him away, fearing he would inflame the situation.

That apparently angered Mendoza into firing a warning shot. Police made an initial attempt to board the bus, and the hijacker shot and wounded a police sharpshooter, said Nelson Yabut, head of the assault team. Single shots, then a burst of automatic fire, echoed through the night.

The Filipino bus driver managed to escape and, according to police officer Roderick Mariano, reported that Mendoza had fired at the tourists.

A freed hostage who gave only her surname, Ng, told Hong Kong reporters that she saw her husband killed by Mendoza after he tried to take him on.

"He was very brave. He rushed forward from the back of the bus. He wanted to prevent the gunman from killing people. He sacrificed himself," she said.

Yabut, the assault commander, said that "when he started shooting the hostages, that's the time I gave the signal to my sniper to shoot when there is a clear view." He said Mendoza died of a single shot to the head.

Shortly before 9 p.m., police lobbed tear gas into the bus and commandos approached the vehicle, crouching beside it and ready to storm it. They smashed windows and the back door with sledgehammers. Once aside, they found only the dead, one of them slumped on the bus steps.

The Hong Kong government did not hide its displeasure at the handling of the incident. It issued a warning against travel to the Philippines, canceled planned tour groups to the islands and asked Hong Kong tourists still in the country to leave.

The bloodbath happened in front of a grandstand where Aquino had been sworn in as president on June 30. After midnight he was back there, staring at the bloodstained, bullet-riddled bus.

Kaiser Soze
08-23-2010, 20:14
As for the media, they're a bunch of selfish individuals (I wish I could use stronger words in this forum). They didn't care about the welfare of the hostages. Walang konsiyensiya, walang delicadeza. Ethics down the drain with regards to the media. To them, what mattered was being first to deliver the news.

Exactly. The media swarmed the bus driver, not even allowing the LEO's to interview him and de-brief him, instead they went for the story, and irresponsibly reported the bus driver's wrong statement that everybody was already dead.

As for breaking the bus windshield, a sledgehammer was a poor choice to attempt to break it. They needed a tool with a finer point, like a pickaxe or even one of those picture framing hammers.

This whole situation is sad. Senior Inspector Mendoza was a decorated cop who may have snapped after devoting 30 years of his life to the service then being stripped of his position and pension. I'm not saying he's innocent of extortion, truth be told I don't know - but whether he was innocent or not is moot now because of the actions he took yesterday. The tourists were just here to have a good time. The ill-prepared & under-equipped cops showed a lack of tactics and understanding of the situation (why did they waste so much time with the windshield and door when the emergency door was in front of the assault team the whole time?). The media overstepped as usual. A female bystander got shot in the foot (only in the Philippines - may armed standoff pero madaming usisero). The same bystanders swarmed the scene after the assault, impeding the EMT's from doing their jobs.

Everything last night was a gigantic ¢£ü$ŧër*****.

darwin25
08-23-2010, 20:14
Heads should roll. The MPD chief, chief of NCRPO and no less than the Chief PNP himself should be fired. They are all responsible for the conduct of their people, the lack of training, equipment, lack of leadership and display of poor tactics. They should be fired. More than ever, the Euro-Generals issue and malversation of PNP funds should be investigated and the responsible generals thrown to jail.

Wp.22
08-23-2010, 20:25
who shot the hostage taker?

Toby1006Glock
08-23-2010, 20:29
The Department of National Defense - National Disaster Coordinating Council gave Olongapo, SBMA Fire Dept and NDCC Manila thermal imaging cameras to "see" in the dark, the heat signature of the hostage taker and the hostages will be shown kahit may curtains - that would give the police an idea kung ano positions and status nung nasa bus. The AFP even has night vision goggles and rifle scopes, we could have shut down all the light around Quirino para nagkaroon ng tactical advantage ang rescuers. Blind yung hostage taker pero nakakakita sa dilim ang rescuers.

Whole world saw how RP deal w/ one man's rampage, we should prepare for copy cat hostage taking & formidable terrorist groups. This is only one man - how about attack of organized terrorists in Manila? Remember the 2008 Mumbay attack. Sabi natin kakahiya ang bansa sa mata ng mga banyaga, dapat sa sarili nating mata eh hindi pwede ganito, hindi pwede "ganyan talaga ang buhay" "pwede na yan". Kailan ba tayo matututo?

Government should help the PNP, AFP, NBI, etc get the best training, equipment & pay - make them really professionals para HINDI NA MANGYAYARI ULIT ITO ! Patay ang ilang hostages, massacred pa reputation ng Pilipinas!

theTactician
08-23-2010, 20:34
:steamed:

Wp.22
08-23-2010, 20:40
i heard ted failon sa DZMM he said that PNOY is blaming the media in his press conference last night but when they played the recording of the press con there was no blaming of the media sa mga sinabi nya.

PMMA97
08-23-2010, 20:41
Paano na lang kung si Rear Admiral Angue ang napraning?

isuzu
08-23-2010, 20:59
i heard ted failon sa DZMM he said that PNOY is blaming the media in his press conference last night but when they played the recording of the press con there was no blaming of the media sa mga sinabi nya.

News footages here has PNOY blaming the irresponsible media.

paltiq
08-23-2010, 21:06
wheres the SAF?... masasaktan nga ba ang pride ng MPD kung SAF ang aa-sault? bus assault is their daily routine in Bicutan... Versoza should be fired!

9MX
08-23-2010, 21:39
Paano na lang kung si Rear Admiral Angue ang napraning?

buti na lang wala tayong battleship:upeyes:

Tukmol
08-23-2010, 22:07
buti na lang wala tayong battleship:upeyes:

Or cruise missiles! Kinda reminds me of "The Rock" plot ni Nicholas Cage.

Mickey Mouse Police Force talaga. :crying:

Chie
08-23-2010, 22:34
1. ground commander lost control. the hostage taker was provoked when he saw his brother et al being arrested. mpd tried to do this discretely,but the brother was able to escape them and go to the media. why? because they didn't cuff him, malamang kasi kabaro:whistling:

2. the blow by blow by account took out the element of surprise on the side of the assault team because the bus has a TV.

3. lack of equipment-no ladders, no tactical lights.

4. the assault was so slow and parang walang play kumbaga sa basketball, so i guess lack in training

Don't forget the crowd control!!! As soon as the police started relaxing the people were like swarm of bees even jumping over the barricade just to get closer peek of the bus. Kaka-hiya :embarassed:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DCRJPhilippines#p/u/7/m4Tf5aJU6fQ

And I also noticed that while they were trying to breach the bus parang trial and error ang style nila:brickwall: . There was no definite plan on how to go about it.

Was there anyone watching one of the international news and the news anchor said that the brother was arrested as instructed by a certain local govt official? Isn't it the job of the pnp official to determine those things?

horge
08-23-2010, 23:10
wheres the SAF?... masasaktan nga ba ang pride ng MPD kung SAF ang aa-sault? bus assault is their daily routine in Bicutan... Versoza should be fired!

This.


Also, if Aquino is blaming media, he has grounds to.

There really ought to be a law mandating news blackouts during
hostage crises, otherwise hostage-takers can monitor .gov
movements, and news organizations are free to act as they did
during this horrible, horrible tragedy.

Wp.22
08-23-2010, 23:21
The Media is there to guard and protect the rights of the Hostage Taker. Alam nyo na sila ang saviour natin baka maabuso yung karapatan ng hostage taker.

edtf
08-23-2010, 23:35
who shot the hostage taker?


if I'm not mistaken it was a swat guy on the driver side window who gave a short burst

ppts799
08-24-2010, 00:03
tsk tsk! wrong planning ;(

lito lapid with a .45cal - tapos ang hostage crisis in less than 90 mins!

Allegra
08-24-2010, 00:37
they should have just reinstated him

9MX
08-24-2010, 01:13
they should have just reinstated him

then we'd have more of him doing the same thing for reinstatement

stinger030
08-24-2010, 01:45
originally posted by 9MX
1. ground commander lost control. the hostage taker was provoked when he saw his brother et al being arrested. mpd tried to do this discretely,but the brother was able to escape them and go to the media. why? because they didn't cuff him, malamang kasi kabaro

2. the blow by blow by account took out the element of surprise on the side of the assault team because the bus has a TV.

3. lack of equipment-no ladders, no tactical lights.

4. the assault was so slow and parang walang play kumbaga sa basketball, so i guess lack in training

even heard from MSN News saying that"the police used blunt tactics in a sensitive situation". The ground commander really messed this up.
1. Parang nawala yung negotiator nung gabi. Dapat tuloy tuloy ang negotiation with the hostage taker.
2. Did the assualt team took the driver's word when he said that all are dead? That's why they assualted the bus without any clear plan? May sledge hammer nga, wala namang hagdanan. And the assault from the front and the back was not even synchronize...
3. Throwing tear gas and then entry without gasmask...parang yung hostage rescue sa isang banko in the 80's. Ang yayabang ng pulis pumasok, maluhaluhang lumabas kasi masakit daw sa mata...
3. Did the police snipers have night vision scopes? Why shoot at a darkened bus and in a heavy rain, how can you identify which is the hostage or the hostage taker? All you can see are silhouettes.
4. Police cordon was not implemented. Dagsa kaagad yun mga reporter at iba pang tao right after the assualt. They really are good in messing up the crime scene.
Hay naku....puro na lang hingi ng budget for training and equipment pero pag labanan na...wala pa rin

sana they produce a really good ballistic study on this. Baka yung mga turistang namatay, galing sa labas ang bala.

atmarcella
08-24-2010, 01:50
In my opinion as an observer, the ground commander bungled this one, super big time

+100

Dun sa entry ba nagsimula problema?


yup. yung pang bili ng shaped charged and flash bang na convert sa euros. at hagdan pa pala... wala din sila... sana tawag sila sakin meron ako hagdan hehehehe.

dunnga ako nagtataka, they breaking the windows pero how were they going to climb aboard?


malakas sila cguro tumalon....or theyre just so friggin stupid.

Pero I really blame the media

i dont. at first they tried to arrest him decently "inimbitahan", then when he saw the media he made a scene "umeksena".

eh di sana hinayaan na nila. arrest him some other time. didnt the thought of agitating the hostage taker by man handling his family (hindi yan baboy....tao yan) ever cross there minds????????

well.......wala eh...slow talaga ang processor....naka celeron ika nga.

Tibay pala ng windshield ng bus


laminated sya bro... kita nyo hindi sya nag shatter. kung safety glass lang it will shatter into small pieces. yun ay safety+laminated pa.

Break all the windows that can be broken THEN deploy teargas without any of the SWAT operators having gas masks.


+1

Suicide by cop?

no. it couldve ended peacefully....if sana kahit naka pentium nalang sila, wag na dual core.

As for the media, they're a bunch of selfish individuals (I wish I could use stronger words in this forum). They didn't care about the welfare of the hostages. Walang konsiyensiya, walang delicadeza. Ethics down the drain with regards to the media. To them, what mattered was being first to deliver the news.


it is the ground commanders responsibility to control them.

As for breaking the bus windshield, a sledgehammer was a poor choice to attempt to break it. They needed a tool with a finer point, like a pickaxe or even one of those picture framing hammers.


it wont work on laminated glass. shaped charge talaga.

News footages here has PNOY blaming the irresponsible media.


bading talaga.

they should have just reinstated him


exactly what i was thinking. promises made under duress are null and void. versoza should have gone there and promised him heaven and earth. just to save lives.


when all is set and done. ground commander talaga nagkamali. ty.:crying:

atmarcella
08-24-2010, 02:22
nadagdagan pa,

The show was without any major gaffes, except for Miss Philippines' answer when asked what her biggest mistake in life was and how she fixed it.

"In my 22 years of existence, I can say there is nothing major," Venus Raj said.

Before the pageant, Raj was rated among the top contestants in an online poll on the pageant's website. She finished in fifth place.



pacman.... lumaban kana.....

Wp.22
08-24-2010, 02:35
nadagdagan pa,



pacman.... lumaban kana.....

atleast 5th place yung hipon

atmarcella
08-24-2010, 02:43
sayang 1st sana...

napinap
08-24-2010, 02:51
by now, PNP should really consider sub-contracting hostage resolution to foreign specialists, nakakahiya na talaga

CatsMeow
08-24-2010, 03:26
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100824/ts_afp/philippinescrimehijackhongkong;_ylt=AnQB2w3ZtWQhj.3_lirR40rZa7gF;_ylu=X3oDMTNrMGg4cXFqBGFzc2V0A2FmcC 8yMDEwMDgyNC9waGlsaXBwaW5lc2NyaW1laGlqYWNraG9uZ2tvbmcEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYw N5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDcGhpbGlwcGluZXBv

MANILA (AFP) – Philippine police conceded Tuesday they had made blunders ending a bus hijacking as outrage grew over the bloody assault that was played out on live television and left eight Hong Kong tourists dead.

Commandos fired dozens of bullets into the bus and smashed its windows with sledgehammers as they tried to storm it, but were then forced to wait outside helplessly for over an hour as the hijacker used his captives as human shields.

The stand-off in Manila's tourist district on Monday finally ended when police fired tear gas into the bus and a sniper shot the gunman in the head, but by then eight of the tourists on board had been killed.

Amid a storm of criticism from Hong Kong's government and people around the world who watched the shoot-out live on television, Manila police commander Leocadio Santiago admitted mistakes had been made.

"We saw some obvious shortcomings in terms of capability and tactics used, or the procedure employed and we are now going to investigate this," Santiago said on local television.

He and President Benigno Aquino promised to investigate all aspects of the 12-hour ordeal, which began when a disgruntled sacked policeman armed with an M-16 assault rifle hijacked a bus carrying 25 people, mostly Hong Kong tourists.

Hong Kong's chief executive, Donald Tsang, expressed anger at the handling of the crisis and insisted he get answers.

"We demand that the Philippine authorities conduct a detailed and comprehensive investigation on the incident. They must provide a full account to us as soon as possible," Tsang said.

Tsang also urged all Hong Kong tour groups in the Philippines to return home, and organised two chartered flights to take relatives of the hostages, as well as psychologists, doctors and social workers, to Manila.

Flags flew at half mast and the Hong Kong stock exchange observed a minute's silence as the shocked territory mourned the victims, while media focused on the perceived ineptitude of the Philippine police in handling the crisis.

"The Philippine government.... I can't accept this. Why did they do this to us?" one survivor identified as Mrs Leung told Hong Kong officials who flew to the Manila hospital, in comments shown on Cable News TV. The gunman "did not want to kill us. He only shot us after the negotiations failed."

Leung said her husband and two daughters aged 21 and 14 were killed in the shoot-out, while her 18-year-old son was in intensive care in Manila.

In comments echoed throughout the territory's media, the Hong Kong Economic Journal criticised the Philippine police for their inability to get into the bus after storming it.

"Their appalling professional standards and the lack of strategic planning made observers both angry and sad. This tragedy could have been avoided," the paper said.

Aquino acknowledged in a pre-dawn press conference that the tragedy highlighted many flaws in the ability of Philippine security forces to handle hostage situations.

"There are a lot of things (that) resulted in a tragedy. Obviously we should be improving," said Aquino, who took office less than two months ago.

One of the problems he emphasised was the way the crisis played out through the media, with the gunman allowed to speak on radio and watch events live on the bus's television, giving him insights into police actions.

But Aquino nevertheless insisted waiting more than 10 hours before storming the bus was the right course of action, because police believed until that point they could convince the gunman to surrender.

The gunman, former senior inspector Rolando Mendoza, hijacked the bus in a crazed attempt to clear himself of charges of extortion that led to him being discharged from the police force in 2008.

Mendoza, 55, had demanded that the ombudsman re-open an investigation into his case, which centred on accusations he tried to extort money from a man accused of drug trafficking.

Before being discharged, he was regarded as a model officer, once being named as among the top 10 policemen in the country.

jimbullet
08-24-2010, 03:35
The whole hostage drama was watched by almost everyone in the world with CNN covering the entire story.

It is rather disappointing to see law enforcers bashing the bus, having no effective equipment with them and yet even without the appropriate equipment the whole siege could have been planned and executed more effectively than what they have done.

Yes its easy to be on the side criticizing the whole operation (Should havev done this/ done that, should have used this and that) but one can only think if an ordinary lay man can think of more effective ways while the whole thing was unfolding before our eyes, surely the police heirarchy could have also thought the same.

Sadly there has been international outcry on how the whole thing got messy.

Wp.22
08-24-2010, 03:56
is there an existing technology that you can blocked the signal of TV or radio like inside the bus? may cellphone jammer diba wala ba TV and radio jammer devices

foxyyy
08-24-2010, 04:24
i think there was no need to snipe the hostage-taker early on..

i think there was no need to wait 12hrs for the hostage-taker to surrender..

in this photo alone..both negotiators can pull his pointing arm & rifle and subdue the hostage-taker to the ground..END OF STORY, END OF DRAMA!!!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3786/pulla.jpg

Allegra
08-24-2010, 04:37
then we'd have more of him doing the same thing for reinstatement

does he actually believe he'd be reinstated w/ his actions? hehe
if he does, then maniniwala din syang totto yung reinstatement

PMMA97
08-24-2010, 04:54
in this photo alone..both negotiators can pull his pointing arm & rifle and subdue the hostage-taker to the ground..END OF STORY, END OF DRAMA!!!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3786/pulla.jpg

Trained ba ang hostage negotiators sa ground fighting?

Dapat meron din hostage grabber.

smoothisfastmanila
08-24-2010, 05:00
Correct ka dyan sir.

Wp.22
08-24-2010, 05:08
Trained ba ang hostage negotiators sa ground fighting?

Dapat meron din hostage grabber.

pwede siyang sipain nung driver

ppts799
08-24-2010, 05:09
ooops, mali.

major major kasi

MAJINKONG
08-24-2010, 05:34
licensed daw yun dala ni capt mendoza.... Pag-iinitan na naman nito ni CPNP mga license FA owners.

napinap
08-24-2010, 06:30
sayang cutting edge pa naman ang kanilang training...

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6223/policetraining.jpg

g300d
08-24-2010, 06:40
Here's how the Chinese do it.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff116/g300d/zxsaaz.jpg

jmy
08-24-2010, 08:01
1. ground commander lost control. the hostage taker was provoked when he saw his brother et al being arrested. mpd tried to do this discretely,but the brother was able to escape them and go to the media. why? because they didn't cuff him, malamang kasi kabaro:whistling:

2. the blow by blow by account took out the element of surprise on the side of the assault team because the bus has a TV.

3. lack of equipment-no ladders, no tactical lights.

4. the assault was so slow and parang walang play kumbaga sa basketball, so i guess lack in training


Same observations.

kristiansen
08-24-2010, 08:26
wala na ako masabi.nasabi nyo na lahat.:crying:nagtataka lang ako bakit wala pa nag reresign na pulis or nasibak........

Wp.22
08-24-2010, 08:33
wala na ako masabi.nasabi nyo na lahat.:crying:nagtataka lang ako bakit wala pa nag reresign na pulis or nasibak........

According to the pnp spokesman they did a good job. Kung ako si CPNP nag resign na ako and wait for my next juicy appointment

markieboy
08-24-2010, 09:45
i think there was no need to snipe the hostage-taker early on..
I agree.

i think there was no need to wait 12hrs for the hostage-taker to surrender..
I agree.

in this photo alone..both negotiators can pull his pointing arm & rifle and subdue the hostage-taker to the ground..END OF STORY, END OF DRAMA!!!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3786/pulla.jpg
I don't think so. Four officers had such a difficult time subduing Gregorio Mendoza. And he wasn't even armed!!!
How much more with someone armed and with nothing to lose? I believe there would have been more bloodshed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzx5XtVUAUo

IMHO, there was and is a lack of proper training. SWAT is supposed to mean Special Weapons and Tactics.
They had all the fancy automatic weapons. But without special tactics, they are only a group people with M16s.

Just my thoughts. :whistling:

Kaiser Soze
08-24-2010, 17:13
ttp://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100825-288620/Aquino-PNP-admit-mistakes-were-made
Aquino, PNP admit mistakes were made

‘Defects’ in handling hostage crisis probed

By Christine O. Avendaño, Alcuin Papa
Philippine Daily Inquirer

Posted date: August 25, 2010


MANILA, Philippines—President Benigno Aquino III Tuesday said he wasn’t exactly impressed with the way police handled the bloody hostage-taking drama at the Luneta Park. Officials admitted “defects” in the police operation.
Looking fresh and relaxed in a nationally televised news conference with bleary-eyed Palace reporters after midnight Monday following the 11-hour crisis, Mr. Aquino said some things certainly could stand improvement.

“How can I be satisfied when there were people who were killed,” he said.

At least eight hostages were killed when Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza, 55, seized a tourist bus with 25 people aboard, mostly Hong Kong Chinese visitors, and demanded that the Ombudsman reverse his dismissal on extortion charges two years ago.

Mendoza himself was killed in the police assault on the bus after he had earlier freed eight hostages. The rest of the hostages were wounded in the gunbattle, but the driver escaped unscathed.

Mr. Aquino said that among the lessons learned in Monday’s incident was the need for the “redefinition of limitations.”

“What were the limitations imposed on the media, I think none,” the President said, noting that the journalists sought to get “the latest tidbit” throughout the crisis.

Mr. Aquino said that media’s intensive coverage “provided a wealth of information” to Mendoza, whom he noted was watching television on the bus and listening to the radio “throughout the whole time.”

“And each time he got a new piece of information that obviously factored into his equations and it didn’t help our security forces any,” he said.

Asked whether officials erred in not imposing a news blackout, the President said if he ordered one, the media would say that the government was “guilty of censoring a priori.”

“We cannot censor you for things you have to do,” he said, but noted that something could probably be worked out between the government and the media that will see the media being able to do its work without impeding security operations.

‘Over the edge’

The President said authorities initially thought the situation would be resolved peacefully and had intended to “wait it out” but that it “deteriorated rapidly” and resulted in a bloodbath.

Mr. Aquino cited three instances that turned Mendoza around from his initial “cooperative” nature after he spoke to an unknown person on the phone upon receiving a letter from Ombudsman Merceditas Gutierrez, who had promised to review his case.

Tension also rose during the negotiations because of the presence of Mendoza’s brother, SPO2 Gregorio Mendoza, at the scene, he said. The subsequent arrest of his brother, which was covered by the media, also “further agitated” Mendoza.

“He was obviously distressed to begin with. Something put him over the edge,” the President said.

Decision to stall

It was also a “tactical decision” to stall because there was initially no immediate threat to the hostages, Mr. Aquino said, pointing out that Mendoza had earlier freed eight hostages.

“So we were hoping as the stress wore him down, then he’d be more and more amenable to finding an amicable or peaceful resolution to the problem. Unfortunately that changed and it changed quite rapidly,” he said.

The President said he had ordered Justice Secretary Leila de Lima to conduct a “thorough investigation of everything that transpired.”

Philippine National Police Director General Jesus Verzosa said in a statement that Monday’s incident was “unfortunate” that warranted a thorough investigation.

“We will hold passing any judgment on what went wrong or what went right until we receive the final report from a team of experts who will look into all circumstances surrounding the hostage-taking incident,” he said.

Defects in police action

Senior Supt. Agrimero Cruz, PNP spokesperson, said a committee had been formed to look into the case. He said that the police leadership had noted “defects” in the action against Mendoza.

These include the poor handling of the hostage negotiation, “side issues and events that further agitated the hostage-taker,” inadequate capability, skills, equipment and planning of the assault team, improper crowd control, and the noncompliance to media relations procedures in hostage situations.

“There are plenty of observations. Like the broadcasting live (of troops movements) and it was monitored (by the hostage-taker). There were a lot of usis (bystanders) during the assault and immediately after. The usis were there before the ambulances. These things have to be corrected,” Cruz added.

Cruz said that a Special Action Force was on standby but that authorities allowed the police on the ground to continue with the negotiations. “In a hostage situation, whatever force committed there should not be pulled out.”

Nothing shameful

On the comment that the PNP looked inept before international TV audiences, Cruz said: “There was nothing shameful. That is their opinion, that is what they saw. In our point of view, given the situation and our meager resources, we did well.”

Verzosa, according to Cruz, believed that based on initial reports, the actions taken by the Manila Police District head, Chief Supt. Rodolfo Magtibay were “justified.”

On the possibility of friendly fire hitting the hostages, Cruz said initial reports said the only shots fired were those from a sniper that took out Mendoza, and from Mendoza himself.

He commended the courage of the assault team. “Our policemen were brave. Even without protective clothing, they did their job because the order was to assault.”

“There is nothing perfect. We always have to improve. Even police in First World countries continue to improve their services, continue to improve their skills.”

Cruz also said the investigators would probe the role played by Gregorio Mendoza in the incident. Mendoza’s brother was charged with obstruction of justice Monday night, he said. With reports from Marlon Ramos and DJ Yap

Kaiser Soze
08-24-2010, 17:16
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view/20100824-288560/Hostage-takers-appeal-didnt-reach-police-say-kin
Hostage-taker’s appeal didn’t reach police, say kin

Philippine Daily Inquirer

Posted date: August 24, 2010


TANAUAN, Batangas—Return to sender.
This was stamped on a letter that Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza sent to the Philippine National Police’s Internal Affairs Service (PNP-IAS) to appeal his dismissal over charges of extortion.

It could also be what drove Mendoza, a decorated policeman, to commandeer a tour bus and take hostage Chinese tourists inside it, according to relatives who awaited the arrival of Mendoza’s body a day after he was killed during a police assault on the bus.

Arturo Castillo, a close friend of the family and retired police officer, recalled seeing the letter shown to him by Mendoza’s daughter, Grace. It was sent and returned just this month.

It was addressed to a certain Attorney Clarence Quimpo of the PNP-IAS.

The envelope still looked new when it was returned to Mendoza.

“It wasn’t even opened and was marked return to sender,” said Castillo.

He said this could be used as a piece of evidence to show PNP failure to act on the case of Mendoza, who is known among neighbors as Kuya Rolly or Kuya Lando.

Family members, however, kept mum on details of the case that prompted the hostage-taking.

Relatives and siblings of Rolly had refused to talk, out of fear of getting a brother, SPO2 Gregorio Mendoza, into more trouble after he was arrested by police for allegedly aggravating the hostage situation.

Castillo said he and the family of Mendoza only wanted “to restore Rolly’s dignity.”

He said he won’t advise Rolando’s wife to sue the government. It won’t prosper, he said.

Rolando’s body was brought home by his wife, Aurora, and youngest son, Bismarck.

Malou Mendoza, 46, sister of Rolando, said family members weren’t able to see Rolando’s body after his death.

“We went to all hospitals but we did not find his body because policemen wouldn’t tell us,” she said.

Villagers accustomed to calling Rolando “Kuya Lando” or “Kuya Rolly” said they felt sad seeing the hostage-taking and assault on TV. Rolando had been a good neighbor to them.

Carlos Barrion, a neighbor in Barangay Banadero, said people in the community have been convincing Rolando to run as village captain in the coming barangay elections “so he would have something else in mind aside from his dismissal.”

Rolando, Barrion said, could have been a good candidate. He never walked around in the community with a gun and busied himself with gardening.

Barrion said Rolando had been quiet about his grievances.

“When you ask him for help, he would make you feel you’re always welcome to his home,” said Barrion.

Efren Mendoza, 55, an uncle of Rolando, said he wanted to say sorry to the families of the victims in the hostage-taking.

Like many other members of the Mendoza family, Efren said he knew of the hostage-taking only on TV.

“I’m sorry,” said Efren.

Kaiser Soze
08-24-2010, 17:17
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100825-288632/TIMELINE-11-Hours-of-Madness
TIMELINE: 11 Hours of Madness

By DJ Yap, Marlon Ramos, Jeannette Andrade
Philippine Daily Inquirer

Posted date: August 25, 2010


MANILA, Philippines—Here is the sequence of events that led to a bloodbath in Monday’s Rizal Park hostage saga. The times are approximations based on interviews with the police, witnesses and relatives of hostages:
8 a.m. Driver Alberto Lubang, on board Hong Thai Travel bus, with plate No. TWU-799, fetches Hong Kong residents from Manila Pavilion hotel, where they are billeted, and drops them off at Intramuros. They are on the last day of their group tour.

The Hong Kong tourists roam around to take pictures, see the sights.

9 a.m. Lubang fetches the tourists from the agreed meeting place outside the Manila Cathedral.

9:30 a.m. The tourists board the bus. Lubang notices former Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza in a police uniform and armed with an M-16 rifle, watching them.

When everybody is inside and the bus is about to leave, Mendoza approaches and asks where they are headed. Lubang says they are going to the airport and Mendoza asks for a ride. Lubang lets him board.

9:45 a.m. Upon reaching Rizal Park, Mendoza tells the driver and passengers: “Sorry, you’re my hostages now.” Lubang thinks he’s kidding.

Mendoza asks the driver to turn toward Quirino Grandstand.

The bus reaches Quirino Grandstand. A parking attendant approaches to ask for the P60 parking fee. On seeing Mendoza’s rifle, the attendant runs.

Mendoza calls his colleagues at the Manila Police District to inform them of what he has done.

An elderly passenger on the bus complains of loose bowel movement and is allowed to leave with tour guide Diana Chan.

Negotiations begin

10:30 a.m. Police arrive. Negotiations led by Supt. Orlando Yebra and Chief Insp. Romeo Salvador begin.

Mendoza posts hand-written messages on the window indicating his demands, including the case numbers of his cases with the Office of the Ombudsman.

12:10 p.m. Four hostages are released—three children aged 4, 10 and 12, and the 39-year-old mother of two of them.

1:15 p.m. Wang Ben, Chinese police attaché in the Philippines, arrives.

1:20 p.m. Negotiators agree to refuel the bus’ diesel tank. Later, a van also approaches the bus. Two men alight from the van and hand over to a negotiator packed lunch and bottles of water for the hostages.

1:24 p.m. Mendoza opens the bus door and frees Lee See Kyu after the 70-year-old tourist asks to be allowed to go so he can have his medication for diabetes.

Police say force will only be used as a last resort.

Filipino hostages freed

1:30 p.m. Two Filipino hostages are released. Mendoza sets a 3 p.m. “deadline” for the negotiations.

2:14 p.m. A man in white shirt and short pants is seen walking toward the bus. Salvador, deputy negotiator, disarms him of a handgun. The man is identified as SPO2 Gregorio Mendoza, the hostage-taker’s brother.

2:25 p.m. Gregorio is allowed to step out of the nearby police precinct where he is being held. He tells the media he merely wants to help in the negotiations and that his brother wants to relay his demands through him.

2:30 p.m. Mendoza’s other relatives, among them younger brother Florencio, arrive. The hostage-taker’s wife, Aurora, appears but begs off interviews.

3:05 p.m. Gregorio and a colleague, SPO4 Robert Agojo, ask Mendoza to extend his 3 p.m. “deadline.” The dismissed police officer gives them 30 minutes to ask the authorities to act on his demands.

3:14 p.m. A Philippine National Red Cross team brings a freed female hostage to an undisclosed facility.

Poised for assault

3:30 p.m. Cigarette-puffing Manila Vice Mayor Isko Moreno leaves the police precinct, holding a folder of documents.

4 p.m. About 20 fully-armed SWAT operatives take their positions near the bus as if preparing for a possible assault or rescue.

4:15 p.m. Senior government officials, among them Foreign Undersecretary Esteban Conejos, arrive.

6:15 p.m. Negotiation appears to break down. Mendoza fires warning shot at Yebra and Salvador.

6:40 p.m. Gregorio scampers out of the police precinct, claims his superiors have ordered him arrested. His brother Florencio and other relatives embrace Gregorio to stop SWAT agents from arresting him.

Mendoza’s warning

6:50 p.m. Mendoza warns negotiators he will do something drastic.

6:55 p.m. Gregorio is arrested and handcuffed as accessory to the crime.

7:10 p.m. SWAT members, some wearing bull caps, approach the bus from the rear. A policeman using a sledgehammer tries to smash the bus’ glass windows. Heavy downpour falls.

7:15 p.m. Mendoza gets angry after seeing his brother getting arrested on a TV monitor. He threatens to kill the hostages.

The SWAT surrounds the bus. Snipers are placed in strategic areas in the vicinity but can’t get a clear shot of Mendoza.

A body is seen slumped on the floor, blocking the door, which opens inside.

7:20 p.m. At the center of the bus, Mendoza is seen lying on his stomach with a gun pointed to the rear of the bus. He uses two inert bodies as a shield.

7:23 p.m. Mendoza apparently starts firing at hostages.

Driver escapes

7:30 - 7:45 p.m. Driver Lubang escapes by jumping through the window. He runs away, shouting, “Pinatay na lahat iyong mga hostage (All the hostages have been killed).”

SWAT member PO1 Allan Dy slips into the bus through a rear door. Mendoza shoots him. The bullet hits Dy on the head, but he is wearing a Kevlar helmet and is not injured.

The assault team retreats and regroups.

8:19 p.m. Mendoza unleashes bursts of gunfire for several minutes. A teenager is hit by a stray bullet in the thigh.

Shot by sniper

8:30 p.m. Tear gas canister is thrown in. Mendoza gets up from his position and moves to the door.

8:44 p.m. A sniper shoots him through a crack in the door, hitting him in the head. The bullet exits through the back of his head.

8:45 p.m. Police declare crisis is over. Rescue ambulances arrive.

9:05 p.m. Mendoza’s body is loaded onto an ambulance.

Allegra
08-24-2010, 18:16
fafa, much as i love the opinion section of the inquirer, that glorified tabloid seems to be consistently inaccurate sa news

isuzu
08-24-2010, 19:49
wheres the SAF?... masasaktan nga ba ang pride ng MPD kung SAF ang aa-sault? bus assault is their daily routine in Bicutan... Versoza should be fired!

There's a unit that Rear Admiral Angue used to command which specifically is tasked to respond to crises in the Metro Manila area.

isuzu
08-24-2010, 19:56
i think there was no need to snipe the hostage-taker early on..

i think there was no need to wait 12hrs for the hostage-taker to surrender..

in this photo alone..both negotiators can pull his pointing arm & rifle and subdue the hostage-taker to the ground..END OF STORY, END OF DRAMA!!!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3786/pulla.jpg

But did he have a sidearm aside from the rifle? The negotiators could have pulled his exposed arm, but his other arm could have gotten hold of the sidearm. But at least, the hostage taker could have been brought out of the bus and he could have been taken out by snipers.

CatsMeow
08-24-2010, 20:11
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100824/ap_on_re_as/as_philippines_bus_hostages

By OLIVER TEVES, Associated Press Writer Oliver Teves, Associated Press Writer – Tue Aug 24, 1:16 pm ET
MANILA, Philippines – The Philippines acknowledged "inadequacies" in handling a hostage crisis that killed eight Hong Kong tourists, as anger over the botched negotiations erupted Tuesday in Hong Kong with demonstrations and harsh words.

A heartbreaking picture emerged of the victims — a mother of three who lost her husband and two daughters, a teenager oblivious of her parents' death and a tour guide who aspired to become a yoga teacher.

Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, facing his first major crisis since taking office on June 30, declared Wednesday a national day of mourning in solidarity with the people of Hong Kong to "share their sorrow," his spokesman Edwin Lacierda said.

Officials promised a full investigation into how the hijacker — a former policeman demanding his job back — was able to gun down eight of the 15 Hong Kong hostages on board the bus before a sniper killed him and officers were finally able to get into the vehicle. Seven other hostages survived the final bloodbath, which came after a 12-hour standoff at a seaside Manila park.

Philippine Interior Secretary Jessie Robredo, who is in charge of the national police, acknowledged Tuesday there were problems with how the crisis was handled.

"Had we been better prepared, better equipped, better trained, maybe the response would have been quicker despite the difficulty," Robredo said.

He added, "All the inadequacies happened at the same time."

Philippine police had defended their actions — pointing out that officers lacking proper equipment had risked their lives in trying to bring the standoff to an end. But they promised to review all events leading to the deaths.

In Hong Kong, sorrow quickly evolved into outrage, with several of the semiautonomous Chinese territory's political parties leading protesters to the Philippine Consulate.

Demonstrators chanted, "You caused the deaths of Hong Kongers," and one protester scuffled with a security guard.

"We think the Philippine government used the wrong strategy. We think the operation failed," pro-Beijing legislator Lau Kong-wah told reporters.

Several Hong Kong newspapers printed mastheads in black, and flags in the territory flew at half-staff.

"Filipino police incompetent," Hong Kong's Ming Pao Daily News said in a front-page headline.

The Hong Kong-based Asian Human Rights Committee added its voice to demands for an explanation, but also was "deeply concerned by people who are trying to blow this incident out of proportion" and who might vent anger through retaliatory attacks against thousands of Filipinos who work there, mostly as maids.

"This tragedy should not become a conflict of nationalities," it said in a statement.

Aquino on Tuesday met Chinese ambassador Liu Jianchao and phoned Hong Kong leader Donald Tsang to brief them on the investigation into the crisis that started when a dismissed police officer armed with a M16 rifle and a pistol seized a busload of 21 Hong Kong tourists and four Filipinos to demand his reinstatement on the force.

The ordeal ended in bloodshed on live TV with police storming the bus and killing the gunman, 55-year-old Rolando Mendoza, after he fired at the tourists.

Of the 25 people originally on the bus, 13 of the Hong Kong tourists and four Filipinos survived. Nine of the survivors had been freed by Mendoza hours before the gunfire began.

Britain's Foreign Office said Tuesday that two of the hostages who were released were British nationals.

At the scene of the standoff, family of two dead hostages attended a Buddhist memorial ceremony Tuesday.

The tearful relatives trailed monks who walked around bus, sprinkling water around the bullet-pocked vehicle. Survivor Amy Ng mourned the deaths of her husband Ken Leung, whom she said confronted the gunman, and daughters Doris and Jessie, aged 21 and 14. Her son, Jason, was still hospitalized after an operation on a head wound.

"I thought I would fight for survival so I could take care of my children, but two of them have already died," a sobbing Ng said Tuesday.

A bedridden, catatonic Tracey Wong told Hong Kong reporters she hid under a seat in the bus while Mendoza fired at the hostages.

"I want to find daddy and mommy quickly and see if they're OK," the 15-year-old said. But Hong Kong's radio RTHK reported that both her parents were among those killed, identifying her father as 51-year-old Wong Tze-lam.

Tour operator Hong Thai Travel Services general manager Susanna Lau praised a slain tour guide, 31-year-old Masa Tse, for his vigilance and decade-long service. TV footage showed him peeking out of the bus during his captivity and later one hand handcuffed to a position near the bus door.

Tse had studied yoga in India and wanted to become an instructor, Hong Kong's Cable TV reported, citing his friends. His Facebook page was flooded with messages of condolences. "I know you did your best to protect members of your tour group. You were very brave. Rest in peace. I will always miss you," friend Tulip Lam wrote.

Hong Kong has canceled tours to the Philippines and asked Hong Kong tourists still in the country to leave.

Philippine Tourism Secretary Alberto Lim said the crisis would likely damage the industry. About 140,000 Hong Kong tourists come annually.

"I'm hoping it will be forgotten soon enough," he said in a Manila hospital, where some of the former hostages were treated.

"We will try to improve ourselves and assure the Hong Kong government and the rest of the world that we will be able to handle matters much better in the future," he said.

bulm540
08-24-2010, 20:24
Tragic. Prayers for the victims.

jmy
08-24-2010, 20:54
shiyet! papunta pa naman ako sa beijing sa weekend! delikado, baka magkaroon ng hate attacks sa mga Filipino tourists!

di bale, mukha naman ako intsik!

I heard that a maid got fired by her employer in HK because of the Quirino grandstand incident.

Kaiser Soze
08-24-2010, 21:02
But did he have a sidearm aside from the rifle? The negotiators could have pulled his exposed arm, but his other arm could have gotten hold of the sidearm. But at least, the hostage taker could have been brought out of the bus and he could have been taken out by snipers.

Yes he had a sidearm.

smoothisfastmanila
08-24-2010, 22:54
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11069616

Probably one of the many reports (or kung mas makapal - case study) to come our way regarding epic failures in resolving a hostage crisis.

On the lighter side, the classic model for a successfull mission of this type is Operation Thunderbolt. This was a hostage-rescue mission carried out by the Israel Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces) (IDF) at Entebbe Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entebbe_International_Airport) in Uganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda) on July 4, 1976.

The police and military are aware of this model - among other successful models as well. Yun lang the leadership violated the 5 SOF truths.

ppts799
08-24-2010, 23:00
mendoza has EIGHT gunshot wounds pala.

1 sa head, 2 sa neck, etc.

Wp.22
08-24-2010, 23:16
mendoza has EIGHT gunshot wounds pala.

1 sa head, 2 sa neck, etc.

i thought isa lang ang tama nya sa ulo courtesy of the sniper.

darwin25
08-24-2010, 23:28
As if the incompetence was not enough, here they are displaying their total insensitivity.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45467_10150240281975254_696745253_14530527_6801363_n.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/0825-00405-021b1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45482_1533771474846_1551594162_31356843_798144_n.jpg

jimbullet
08-24-2010, 23:30
They should have hoped for the best and prepared for the worst. I heard that the swat had prepared by staging a mock up assault on a similar bus which all went accordingly to plan. Can anyone confirm that?

If that was true, why did the plan fall apart in the real thing? It would be the responsibility of the ground commander I suspect how well an attack would be carried out.

The siege should have been swift which is not.

jimbullet
08-24-2010, 23:32
As if the incompetence was not enough, here they are displaying their total insensitivity.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45467_10150240281975254_696745253_14530527_6801363_n.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/0825-00405-021b1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45482_1533771474846_1551594162_31356843_798144_n.jpg

These officers should be sacked - no question about that.

There is international outcry for the total failure of the operation which mirrors the entire law enforcement body of the country and not only that but the image of the nation.

ppts799
08-24-2010, 23:37
i thought isa lang ang tama nya sa ulo courtesy of the sniper.

all 8 shots came from the sniperS daw.

so now media is asking if the hostages were shot by mendoza's guns only. (read bet the lines)

Glock_19_9x19
08-24-2010, 23:55
Yesterday while walking near Binondo, I saw a Fil-Chinese spat on a MPD officer . Maraming tao. What's surprising was that pinagtawanan pa ng crowd yung pulis.

Kaiser Soze
08-25-2010, 00:05
@Darwin - these are obviously not example of "Manila's Finest". My grandfather was one of the 1st Manila Police after WWII, and he died in the line of duty when he engaged some robbers even though he was already off duty. These guys in the photos HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL THEMSELVES MANILA'S FINEST. If the US guards in Guantanamo were sacked, so should these *******s.

choi_tan2000
08-25-2010, 00:31
mendoza has EIGHT gunshot wounds pala.

1 sa head, 2 sa neck, etc.

actually i think he was shot by the SWAT in front of the bus who gives him at least 10 shots which is seen penetrating in front windshield of the bus.

not sure if he realy was shot by a sniper?? merun ba ?

sana nung maaga pa ginamit di n naghintay ng gabi , para walng reason na di kita kasi madilim, natural gabi nga eh

Wp.22
08-25-2010, 00:45
As if the incompetence was not enough, here they are displaying their total insensitivity.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45467_10150240281975254_696745253_14530527_6801363_n.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/0825-00405-021b1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45482_1533771474846_1551594162_31356843_798144_n.jpg


lgay na sa facebook ang mga ito para makita pati ni PNOY how insensitive ang Manila's Finest

choi_tan2000
08-25-2010, 01:03
all 8 shots came from the sniperS daw.

so now media is asking if the hostages were shot by mendoza's guns only. (read bet the lines)

maybe, but i think nasa lne of fire sya nung swat on the left side of the bus. thats why he was pushed by the bullet to the door. coz if he was shot thru the door as they claimed di ba dapat pabalik sa may driver seat ang talsik nya if he was shot 8 times

Evan N. Payawal
08-25-2010, 01:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCINwMkem8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbwAMS5tRAA

What could have been.

Why do these teams practice with buses with open windows? Many buses have closed windows that can't be opened, and those pose specific problems.

I can't seem to find it, but I remember watching a clip of a beautiful assault years back done by the Russians, on a similar scenario. A 6x6 truck was rigged so that one side of the cargo area had a platform and grab handles that commandos held on to. The truck pulled right up to the side of the bus (screeching to a stop!), sledgehammers were immediately used to destroy ALL the bus windows on one side and commandos poured in through the windows simultaneously. It was fast, decisive, ingenious, and Russian in its ruthlessness. It was over in ten seconds..and it worked.
Sigh...

jmy
08-25-2010, 01:39
I was just wondering.Whywasn't Mayor Alfredo lim at the scene?Don't get me wrong.I am not saying that the outcome would have been different but normally,in situations like this one,the mayor is always at the scene.

choi_tan2000
08-25-2010, 01:41
lgay na sa facebook ang mga ito para makita pati ni PNOY how insensitive ang Manila's Finest

oo nga bro merun na

CatsMeow
08-25-2010, 01:46
The last time I had a souvenir photograph of me beside a piece of history was beside Ms. Murray's Robinson R44 helicopter, the one she flew around the world, when it landed in UP Diliman. The bus may be a piece of history, but...:upeyes:

CatsMeow
08-25-2010, 02:17
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100825/wl_asia_afp/philippinescrimehijackhongkong

by Jason Gutierrez Jason Gutierrez – 41 mins ago
MANILA (AFP) – The Philippines on Wednesday suspended four police officers over a hostage crisis that left eight Hong Kong tourists dead, amid outrage over a myriad of mistakes in the chaotic end to the stand-off.

The suspensions came on a national day of mourning to remember the victims of Monday's ordeal, which began when an ex-policemen hijacked a busload of Hong Kong tourists in a desperate bid to be exonerated of extortion charges.

President Benigno Aquino ordered flags in all government offices to fly at half mast, but anger both in the Philippines and Hong Kong over the handling of the crisis largely overshadowed the gesture.

National police spokesman Senior Superintendent Agrimero Cruz told reporters that the four officers who were suspended had led the 200-strong Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team in attempting to storm the bus.

Cruz said they were suspended so they "did not exert undue influence" in a police investigation into the affair.

The national police force had already admitted in a statement to key mistakes in handling the 12-hour hostage drama.

These included poor negotiations with hijacker Rolando Mendoza, inadequate equipment for the SWAT team, allowing the media to roam around the hostage site and bad crowd control.

The tragedy unfolded live on television, allowing people around the world to watch as the commandos failed to get into the bus for more than an hour after smashing its windows with sledgehammers.

In another apparent mistake, police failed to take the opportunity to shoot Mendoza at one point when he opened the door of the bus and peered out.

Nevertheless Cruz said the tidal wave of anger being directed at the police force was "unfair".

"They (critics) are all in the gallery, watching. They should try being in the line of fire and let us see how they react," he told AFP.

In his briefing to reporters, Cruz said at least 59 empty shells from Mendoza's M-16 assault rifle and 31 from two other small firearms he was carrying were recovered inside the wreckage of the bus.

Autopsies on five of the victims showed they died from gunshots mostly in the head and neck.

But Cruz said it remained too early to say whether the victims had been shot by Mendoza or the police.

He promised the results of the internal police investigation would be released.

"We are conducting this in a very transparent manner," Cruz said.

Aquino has ordered a government inquiry on top of the internal police probe, and promised to fully inform the Hong Kong authorities of the results. But the president's official Faceook page has been inundated with angry messages.

"Shame on you and your government. Tender your resignation now," wrote Elfis Lee, a Hong Kong resident. "Your incompetence of leading your untrained stupid police force caused such a tragedy."

In another effort to ease tensions in Hong Kong, Aquino has formed a high-level delegation that will soon travel to the Chinese territory to brief authorities there.

Manila's consul general to Hong Kong, Claro Cristobal, said he expected vigils and protest marches that could come to a head late Wednesday when the survivors and the remains of the eight are due to be flown back.

He said at least one domestic helper had already complained that her angry bosses had fired her in protest at the hostage deaths.

There are as many as 200,000 Filipinos living in Hong Kong, the vast majority of them working as maids.

Elizabeth Tang, chief executive of the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions, said "we're worried about people venting their anger and frustration against domestic helpers".

saki1611
08-25-2010, 02:52
i think there was no need to snipe the hostage-taker early on..

i think there was no need to wait 12hrs for the hostage-taker to surrender..

in this photo alone..both negotiators can pull his pointing arm & rifle and subdue the hostage-taker to the ground..END OF STORY, END OF DRAMA!!!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3786/pulla.jpg

i understand all the sentiments of the majority about what transpired last Monday. there were obvious lapses that probably caused the lives of 8 hostages. my sympathy to the loss.

i just want to comment on the above picture with regards to "possible annihilation" of the hostage-taker. obviously this picture was taken at mid-afternoon, when the scenario was at its lowest threat level, the hostage-taker was cooperating with the hostage negotiator in a way of bargaining, in every request he made, he let hostage/s free. which is, and was the goal of the negotiator to prevent bloodshed whether with the hostages or of the hostage-taker. the negotiator did his job well done, everything was in his control until the the hostage-taker's brother and the policemen who arrested him made a scenario that got the hostage-taker's attention and caused him to get mad, as what stated by the bus driver, and started the pandemonium. at the point of time that this picture was taken i believe and understand the negotiator did the right thing and salute him for this.

jimbullet
08-25-2010, 03:03
The turning point of whether lives would be saved or lost is the point when the assault begun.

atmarcella
08-25-2010, 03:16
major major kasi


:rofl: sabi ko na nga lalabas din to dito hehehehe.

The turning point of whether lives would be saved or lost is the point when the assault begun.


bro from an interview of the driver from abc5, he stated that mendoza started killing when he saw his family being hurt on TV.

but i still dont fault the media. the ground commander should have realized this would happen and stopped his people from continuing to try to forcibly arrest mendoza's brother.:wavey:

saki1611
08-25-2010, 03:27
The turning point of whether lives would be saved or lost is the point when the assault begun.

i beg to disagree sir, generally an assault cannot guarantee it can save lives even if it's the toughest elite unit of the entire world that would execute the assault. preventing an assault to happen could at least minimize the risk of losing lives. in a hostage scenario that caused even just the life of the hostage-taker cannot be considered successful in the hostage negotiator's perspective.

darwin25
08-25-2010, 04:08
i understand all the sentiments of the majority about what transpired last Monday. there were obvious lapses that probably caused the lives of 8 hostages. my sympathy to the loss.



Saki,

The real people responsible for Monday nights fiasco is the PNP leadership, the generals. The MPD is one of the country's premiere police organization. The one who is tasked to protect and police the capital. There is no excuse for a premiere police organization not to have the proper capabilities to handle such situations. They have failed to provide the PNP personnel with good training and proper equipment. What happened monday night was the inevitable result of the corruption and incomptence ion the PNP leadership

darwin25
08-25-2010, 04:11
And the worse thing is, the 4 SWAT officers are the one who are decided to take the fall. Yung mga nakababang opsiyal na naman ang isinasakripisyo. The generals who are ultimately responsible now escapes responsibility.

kristiansen
08-25-2010, 04:42
ito dapat ang mangyari.
watching the endless replays now on tv.its like a mr. bean movie..plus un kodakan pa ngayon.


Heads should roll. The MPD chief, chief of NCRPO and no less than the Chief PNP himself should be fired. They are all responsible for the conduct of their people, the lack of training, equipment, lack of leadership and display of poor tactics. They should be fired. More than ever, the Euro-Generals issue and malversation of PNP funds should be investigated and the responsible generals thrown to jail.

kristiansen
08-25-2010, 04:46
I was just wondering.Whywasn't Mayor Alfredo lim at the scene?Don't get me wrong.I am not saying that the outcome would have been different but normally,in situations like this one,the mayor is always at the scene.

el prez,i heard him on the radio saying nasa vicinity lang sya and decided to go low key to avoid too much pampagulo.but good point,being head of MPD before.

jimbullet
08-25-2010, 05:02
He left it to the "experts" to manage the situation...

jimbullet
08-25-2010, 05:18
i beg to disagree sir, generally an assault cannot guarantee it can save lives even if it's the toughest elite unit of the entire world that would execute the assault. preventing an assault to happen could at least minimize the risk of losing lives. in a hostage scenario that caused even just the life of the hostage-taker cannot be considered successful in the hostage negotiator's perspective.

Saki,

I agree that prevention of lost of lives including that of the hostage taker would have been the most successful outcome. However at that point when it was determined that negotiating with the hostage taker was no longer successful, and an assault was the only option, this was the turning point.

Not saying that an assault would guarantee saving lives (neither during a negotiation). In any operation there are risks involved and the success in any operation would be determined by precise planning and correct execution, which sad to say could not be said in this situation. I mean we all saw it on TV as it unfolded.

jimbullet
08-25-2010, 05:24
:rofl: sabi ko na nga lalabas din to dito hehehehe.



bro from an interview of the driver from abc5, he stated that mendoza started killing when he saw his family being hurt on TV.

but i still dont fault the media. the ground commander should have realized this would happen and stopped his people from continuing to try to forcibly arrest mendoza's brother.:wavey:

I think the ground commander should be the one investigated for lapses.

saki1611
08-25-2010, 05:26
Saki,

The real people responsible for Monday nights fiasco is the PNP leadership, the generals. The MPD is one of the country's premiere police organization. The one who is tasked to protect and police the capital. There is no excuse for a premiere police organization not to have the proper capabilities to handle such situations. They have failed to provide the PNP personnel with good training and proper equipment. What happened monday night was the inevitable result of the corruption and incomptence ion the PNP leadership


we both watched and heard same news...

apoy
08-25-2010, 06:02
Akala ko di na ko magsasalita. Lahat naman nabanggit na.
Akala ko wala ng mas la-lala

.... yung mga litrato na nakapose sila sa bus.... hindi na nakakalungkot. Nakakagalit na.

Kalabisan naman.

Wp.22
08-25-2010, 07:01
Sinibak na pala si mpd chief magtibay

MERCMADE
08-25-2010, 08:31
sibakin narin itong mga nagpopose na ito.:steamed:

foxyyy
08-25-2010, 08:46
i understand all the sentiments of the majority about what transpired last Monday. there were obvious lapses that probably caused the lives of 8 hostages. my sympathy to the loss.

i just want to comment on the above picture with regards to "possible annihilation" of the hostage-taker. obviously this picture was taken at mid-afternoon, when the scenario was at its lowest threat level, the hostage-taker was cooperating with the hostage negotiator in a way of bargaining, in every request he made, he let hostage/s free. which is, and was the goal of the negotiator to prevent bloodshed whether with the hostages or of the hostage-taker. the negotiator did his job well done, everything was in his control until the the hostage-taker's brother and the policemen who arrested him made a scenario that got the hostage-taker's attention and caused him to get mad, as what stated by the bus driver, and started the pandemonium. at the point of time that this picture was taken i believe and understand the negotiator did the right thing and salute him for this.

does that mean that every time we have a hostage crisis, should our authorities always negotiate even if an opportunity present itself to "subdue" - not annihilate, the hostage-taker..just a thought..

and this case is one with foreign hostages, didn't they thought what would be the effect if things go wrong

why wait? why negotiate? the problem can be solved right there in there..no bloodshed..no lives lost

apoy
08-25-2010, 08:56
Sige na, di tayo marunong. Sige na, lahat tayo nagkakamali. Sige na, wala tayong gamit. Sige na sa lahat. Pero yung magpakuha na parang "souvenir" sa isang trahedya ay isang malaking insulto sa mga nawalan at kahihiyan ng marami sa'tin. Hindi naman kailangan ng talino o' yaman para maging mapagmalasakit. Ayaw ko naman maniwala na bastos tayo.

Kanina, sa opisina, ang sabi ko, pag may sumuntok sa'kin - alam ko na. Pero naisip ko din na hindi naman siguro. Ginawa natin yung makakaya. Bitin, pero hanggang dun lang kasi talaga. Ngayon, meron ng mas malalim na dahilan - wala tayong pagmamalasakit.

Kung papansinin, galing pa sa banyaga yung mga litrato (watermarks)

Parang alam ko na ang pinag uusapan nila...

ALLAN PENEYRA
08-25-2010, 10:34
S.W.A.T. stands for Sorry Wala Akong Training :steamed:

Chie
08-25-2010, 11:03
Maybe we should hire this guy instead...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11069616

MAJINKONG
08-25-2010, 16:02
The problem with the PNP is that they have become politicians: Kapit tuko sila sa mga pulitiko para ma promote, kapag captain na sila ay corrupt na, and instead of being prepared as cops for any situations today they just prepare speeches! Doon na lang sila magagaling, rhetorics.

ans3288
08-25-2010, 16:32
i heard commentaries from chinese news channels, this was the effect of what they were saying...

in every country, there is always a possibility of getting involved in this situation (being hostaged by a "mad man") but what saddens them was how their top ranking officials couldnt get thru to the president when they were calling him at malacanang, they were given the runaround.

they were also shocked at how the assualt was poorly executed
examples of which were...
1. took them forever to break the rear window
2. even after punching a window at the rear, they couldnt climb up bec it was too high!!!
3. tried to open the front door with a rope but broke!!!

Allegra
08-25-2010, 17:33
does that mean that every time we have a hostage crisis, should our authorities always negotiate even if an opportunity present itself to "subdue" - not annihilate, the hostage-taker..just a thought..

and this case is one with foreign hostages, didn't they thought what would be the effect if things go wrong

why wait? why negotiate? the problem can be solved right there in there..no bloodshed..no lives lost

definitely , but mahirap mag 2nd guess kasi wala tayo sa scene

I dont think anyone expected this would happen
Maaga pa lang , I was thinking - please dont splatter his brains in front of the tourists....negotiate..pagbigyan ang demands
Maayos kausapin sa mendoza earlier

the only way you can stop the media is to shoot them ( biro lang )
di mo mapipigilan yan, they'll scream harassment pag pinigilan mo
Remeber the hotel seige

kristiansen
08-25-2010, 19:29
side question lang po:

ang mga pulis ba o military personnel ay LEGALLY libre sumakay sa mga public bus,jeep,MRT/LRT? kasi parati ako nakakakita na hindi sila nagbabayad sa bus at MRT/LRT.kasi narinig ko sa radyo interview dun sa bus driver bakit daw nya pinasakay un hostage taker ang sagot eh kasi ho naka uniporme.kung hindi nakagawian na libre sakay,sa palagay ko lang,maaring mali ako,baka sinabi nya hindi po pede boss sumakay.

Wp.22
08-25-2010, 19:52
in some transport busses there are signage the say's "badge not honored here" pwede sakay pero di libre

Chie
08-25-2010, 20:14
The problem with the PNP is that they have become politicians: Kapit tuko sila sa mga pulitiko para ma promote, kapag captain na sila ay corrupt na, and instead of being prepared as cops for any situations today they just prepare speeches! Doon na lang sila magagaling, rhetorics.

Hindi naman lahat :supergrin:

isuzu
08-25-2010, 20:40
As if the incompetence was not enough, here they are displaying their total insensitivity.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45467_10150240281975254_696745253_14530527_6801363_n.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/0825-00405-021b1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/45482_1533771474846_1551594162_31356843_798144_n.jpg

A lot of people here are turned off by these pictures. Tapos na ang tourism sa Pilipinas.

isuzu
08-25-2010, 20:41
And the worse thing is, the 4 SWAT officers are the one who are decided to take the fall. Yung mga nakababang opsiyal na naman ang isinasakripisyo. The generals who are ultimately responsible now escapes responsibility.


In the game of chess, pawns are always first to suffer.

Chie
08-25-2010, 21:54
I find this hard to believe "Self-regulation pinatupad sa coverage ng ABS-CBN sa hostage crisis"

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/tvplatest?page=1#ooid=VjeTVvMToSrJSRyAD9lr8PA8n6F2BcZY

MAJINKONG
08-25-2010, 22:05
I find this hard to believe "Self-regulation pinatupad sa coverage ng ABS-CBN sa hostage crisis"

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/tvplatest?page=1#ooid=VjeTVvMToSrJSRyAD9lr8PA8n6F2BcZY


believe it! i do.. ang tawag diyan, HUGAS kamay.

Allegra
08-25-2010, 23:07
I cant believe GMA has footage from the sniper's point of view
He was there interviewing the snipers kung ano na nagyayari hehe
Wisely , GMA didnt air it during the standoff

atmarcella
08-26-2010, 01:07
kahit na. media has no fault. the responsibility of controlling media belongs to the ground commander. ang media, kung ano ang bigay mo.... kunin nila. kung bigay mo lahat....kunin nila lahat. ganun sila. just like a pitbull is ferocious by nature, ganun din ang media..... gutom by nature.

media has no fault.

Tapos na ang tourism sa Pilipinas

definitely. tayo mag e-enjoy nito. ba-baba presyo ng hotels, resort atbp hehehehehe.

sana pati amanpulo........wish!

does that mean that every time we have a hostage crisis, should our authorities always negotiate even if an opportunity present itself to "subdue" - not annihilate, the hostage-taker..just a thought..

and this case is one with foreign hostages, didn't they thought what would be the effect if things go wrong

why wait? why negotiate? the problem can be solved right there in there..no bloodshed..no lives lost

maganda cguro na policy is negotiate BUT........"snipers, if you have a clear shot.....take it".

sobrang klaro ang benta na binigay ni mendoza. hatchcock cudve taken that shot with both eyes closed.

i heard commentaries from chinese news channels, this was the effect of what they were saying...

in every country, there is always a possibility of getting involved in this situation (being hostaged by a "mad man") but what saddens them was how their top ranking officials couldnt get thru to the president when they were calling him at malacanang, they were given the runaround.

they were also shocked at how the assualt was poorly executed
examples of which were...
1. took them forever to break the rear window
2. even after punching a window at the rear, they couldnt climb up bec it was too high!!!
3. tried to open the front door with a rope but broke!!!

while watching tawa kami ng tawa ng katulong ko while the assault/comedy show was happening. sabi ni katulong, "kuya, inaantay ko na itapon balik ni mendoza sa kanila ang mga maso na nag shoot sa loob" lalo kami tumawa, ka ko "parang mr bean" whahahaha.

S.W.A.T. stands for Sorry Wala Akong Training

i like Sledgehammer Whacking Assault Team better hehehehe.

:wavey:

Eye Cutter
08-26-2010, 01:16
yeah, i agree with andrew here. the media will report what it sees, quecejoda kung ano maging outcome ng reporting nila.

jimbullet
08-26-2010, 02:28
believe it! i do.. ang tawag diyan, HUGAS kamay.

When I watched it, it was clearly hugas kamay.

Allegra
08-26-2010, 03:36
so how do you handle the media?

Kung ako ambitious and very bright reporter ng abs or gma, there is absolutely no way the authorities are going to stop me from getting my story
.....unless they ask my boss to stop me

idamaru
08-26-2010, 05:15
amin po d2 sa probinsya, iisa lang ang dating sa amin ng mga pulis manila [MPD] kotong lang ang magaling, maybe hindi lahat pero halos lahat ata showbiz lang ang dating e, meaning puro porma... simple lang ang tingin namin jan e, kulang sa bayag, kulang sa training, kulang sa gamit at common sense... papasok sa msikip ang dala mahaba, ang maso pagkalaki, kung gumamit sila ng power saw e di madali sila naka breech kung wala shape charges... hay buhay only in da pilipins, tanggalin n si verzosa total ubos na yuro e... disgusted and frustrated lang po sa ginawang damage ng mga mokong na MPD sa ating bansa... peace!!!

jerrytrini
08-26-2010, 08:21
This should be a necessary tool in their vehicles:

9MX
08-26-2010, 08:35
believe it! i do.. ang tawag diyan, HUGAS kamay.

Yup,Maria Ressa can shove it up her orifice

9MX
08-26-2010, 08:39
A lot of people here are turned off by these pictures. Tapos na ang tourism sa Pilipinas.

Yup,I used google translate to understand the Chinese comments on FB.the reaction is, anong klaseng mga Tao Ang pinoy

g300d
08-26-2010, 08:59
Did anyone catch the senate public hearing? Heard bits and pieces on the radio. Multiple face palms but noteworthy was the senator who was bragging about making his own flash bangs and lambasting the SWAT team for not making their own, and the multiple opsec failures. Among other things anyone watching now knows how the SAF defeats portal barriers, how they would have conducted the assault, and hostage negotiation techniques. A lone senator (JPE I think) realized the security issue and reminded the house, but not till after much information was revealed.

Chie
08-26-2010, 11:27
Yup,Maria Ressa can shove it up her orifice

Ditto!!! Kakatawa mga statement ng ABS kanina sa TV Patrol!!! Kesyo kung sinabihan lang daw sila to stop broadcasting, they would do so. And they would ask all networks and media outlet to have a dialogue in setting up guidelines in these kind of crisis.

Bat hindi kaya nila naisip yun nung sina sabi nilang "LIVE! BLOW by BLOW COVERAGE!" :rofl:

Eto pa isa! Kaya pala hindi ma-reach sa cellphone yung hostage taker eh eto may kasalanan http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/08/26/10/tulfo-admits-interview-mendoza-bloodbath

horge
08-26-2010, 15:17
kahit na. media has no fault. the responsibility of controlling media belongs to the ground commander. ang media, kung ano ang bigay mo.... kunin nila. kung bigay mo lahat....kunin nila lahat. ganun sila. just like a pitbull is ferocious by nature, ganun din ang media..... gutom by nature.

media has no fault.
:wavey:

yeah, i agree with andrew here. the media will report what it sees, quecejoda kung ano maging outcome ng reporting nila.

:)

I'm not prohibited by law from doing a LOT of things that might discomfort
other people around me, but I desist out of basic decency. News media
like to pretend they are merely observers, but Heisenberg's principle kicks in,
even on our scale of things: news-reporting easily slips into news-creation.

If restraints have to be placed on media coverage during hostage crises,
they will have to be external, and legislative, in nature. Self-restraint in
Philippine broadcast media is a fickle myth.

My wife and I tried to lay flowers at the site barricade a few days ago.
We were prevented by the police, some of whom were busy taking
insensitive group pictures by the bus. Even groups of students and
adults were doing the same thing outside the barricade.






Ditto!!! Kakatawa mga statement ng ABS kanina sa TV Patrol!!! Kesyo kung sinabihan lang daw sila to stop broadcasting, they would do so. And they would ask all networks and media outlet to have a dialogue in setting up guidelines in these kind of crisis.

Bat hindi kaya nila naisip yun nung sina sabi nilang "LIVE! BLOW by BLOW COVERAGE!" :rofl:

Eto pa isa! Kaya pala hindi ma-reach sa cellphone yung hostage taker eh eto may kasalanan http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/08/26/10/tulfo-admits-interview-mendoza-bloodbath

Nuff said.

Punisher_nbi45
08-26-2010, 21:17
Did anyone catch the senate public hearing? Heard bits and pieces on the radio. Multiple face palms but noteworthy was the senator who was bragging about making his own flash bangs and lambasting the SWAT team for not making their own, and the multiple opsec failures. Among other things anyone watching now knows how the SAF defeats portal barriers, how they would have conducted the assault, and hostage negotiation techniques. A lone senator (JPE I think) realized the security issue and reminded the house, but not till after much information was revealed.

In fairness to this senator, I did not think he was bragging at all, rather, he was making the point that during the 11-12 hours it took before the assault was initiated, the SWAT team could have improvised or jury-rigged equipment which they may have needed but did not have at that time. Also, I did not have time to watch the whole senate hearing, so I wasn't able to determine if any techniques used by the SAF were disclosed, however, from what I've watched, I could say that the information given out regarding the tactics used or could have been used could easily be researched and downloaded from the Internet, thus, I did not see any security lapses being committed.

I still believe, based on my own experience, that it is one thing to know a technique, and another thing to practice it. Also, as far as criminals knowing LEO procedures, they may be able to learn some, but it is highly unlikely that they would know all of them, even through watching television (unless they were ex-LEO themselves or trained by LEOs or other people within the security field).

Not trying to start a flame war, just giving my 2 cents worth...:supergrin:

Punisher_nbi45
08-26-2010, 21:22
Just an addendum...

It was refreshing to see that some senators (like the one mentioned above) have at least a semblance of what they were talking about. I'm sure he said that he's no self-proclaimed expert, but his knowledge on the subject matter suggests that he has more than just a passing interest...and it was good to see that at the hearings.

Otherwise, BS might have been shoveled again and again by those who think only they know what is right or wrong and that other people don't.

Punisher_nbi45
08-26-2010, 21:29
side question lang po:

ang mga pulis ba o military personnel ay LEGALLY libre sumakay sa mga public bus,jeep,MRT/LRT? kasi parati ako nakakakita na hindi sila nagbabayad sa bus at MRT/LRT.kasi narinig ko sa radyo interview dun sa bus driver bakit daw nya pinasakay un hostage taker ang sagot eh kasi ho naka uniporme.kung hindi nakagawian na libre sakay,sa palagay ko lang,maaring mali ako,baka sinabi nya hindi po pede boss sumakay.

PNP has a MOA with the LRT/MRT so that there personnel could ride for free, as long as they are in complete uniform, on their lines.

You have to wonder, though, after this incident, should that policy still be instituted or maybe there should be a review of it?

jimbullet
08-26-2010, 23:55
PNP has a MOA with the LRT/MRT so that there personnel could ride for free, as long as they are in complete uniform, on their lines.

You have to wonder, though, after this incident, should that policy still be instituted or maybe there should be a review of it?

Anyone can obtain a uniform. I think it should be based on I.D. and in full uniform. Presumably the badge and ID of a suspended LEO would be taken away from him.

paltiq
08-27-2010, 01:43
Maybe we should hire this guy instead...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11069616

sampung mga bagay-bagay.... kung ikaw ay may anak na ooperahan...kanino mo ipapa-opera??? sa may basic training o sa isang specialist na yun talaga ang linya?

atmarcella
08-27-2010, 01:56
"I wondered why the authorities just didn't give in to all of his demands," says Charles Shoebridge. "A promise extracted under force is not a promise that you are required to honour

brillant. this thought never crossed the minds of manila's finest. good luck pelepens.

atmarcella
08-27-2010, 02:00
btw, it also did not cross the minds of the brillant lawyer ombudsman's. god save the pelepens.

g300d
08-27-2010, 02:54
In fairness to this senator, I did not think he was bragging at all, rather, he was making the point that during the 11-12 hours it took before the assault was initiated, the SWAT team could have improvised or jury-rigged equipment which they may have needed but did not have at that time. Also, I did not have time to watch the whole senate hearing, so I wasn't able to determine if any techniques used by the SAF were disclosed, however, from what I've watched, I could say that the information given out regarding the tactics used or could have been used could easily be researched and downloaded from the Internet, thus, I did not see any security lapses being committed.

I still believe, based on my own experience, that it is one thing to know a technique, and another thing to practice it. Also, as far as criminals knowing LEO procedures, they may be able to learn some, but it is highly unlikely that they would know all of them, even through watching television (unless they were ex-LEO themselves or trained by LEOs or other people within the security field).

Not trying to start a flame war, just giving my 2 cents worth...:supergrin:

Not at all, none intended on my end either, my respect to all of you LEO who often give more than thanked for.:patriot:

I was not able to listen to the entire hearing as I was listening to it in the car, but everything I will mention I heard first-hand from the radio.

I agree with the need for that inquiry and merely point out some things that marred an otherwise noble exercise.

First of all, senator "flashbang" (don't know who it was as I was not able to catch the start of his tirade) was specifically lambasting the PNP officers for not improvising stun grenades. He was not saying it to make a point that there should be an ability to improvise, he was very specific in saying there should have been stun grenades and asking were not the PNP officers on-scene trained in explosives, and said straight out they were at fault for specifically not McGuyvering a batch of special non-destructive ordinance from the usual destructive ordinace that isn't even readily available to the police in the first place. If he were there he could supposedly whip up a batch of stun grenades in 30 mins. I **** you not, he said that on air. What makes the flash, magnesium? Sure, the PNP has a bunch of powdered magnesium lying around I'm sure. How would you fuse it? With a string and match a la Bugs Bunny? Plus, would you trust that home brewed stun grenade in the ultra-confined area of a bus isle filled with hostages? I could almost see Director Santiago roll his eyes as he answered that EOD is separate and distinct from SWAT. :upeyes:

On the OPSEC failure, it was very specifically asked of Director Santiago, former SAF, how he would have handled the situation. He disclosed strategies like multiple entry from different points and the three ways SAF are trained to defeat portal barriers like the bus door and windows, and what is involved in each method. If I were planning to take over a bus, this information would definitely prove useful to me in hardening my position against a raid.

On hostage negotiating techniques, Senator Cayetano, in trying to understand the process, made the PNP officer interviewed reveal so much information on the limitations of the negotiator and negotiating process that one of the other senators cut in and specifically said there could be more would-be hijackers listening and to thus consider this while asking questions.

Not to take away or apportion blame on anyone for this incident, that is to be determined after the investigation by people better than me. I simply deplore what I consider as unrealistic expectations on the part of senator flashbang and the exposure of information on LEO protocol that I believe could make our LEO's job harder and/or more dangerous if it got to the wrong people. These criminals might not know it all, but when the game involves lives I would prefer the cards very, very close to my chest and would want every advantage, no matter how small it may seem.

Allegra
08-27-2010, 04:03
sen flashbang was sen bongbong marcos who said he had underrgone training

Di nga ba delikado explosives to blow the windows open?
Di ba delikado stun grenade if it lands on a hostages lap?

I remeber the SAS used hammers lang din to gain entry sa iranian embassy seige
Nga lang mas malakas mga braso nila :)

MAJINKONG
08-27-2010, 04:27
Puro hearing na lang yan. Statement dito, statement doon. In the end, wala din.

g300d
08-27-2010, 05:43
sen flashbang was sen bongbong marcos who said he had underrgone training

Di nga ba delikado explosives to blow the windows open?
Di ba delikado stun grenade if it lands on a hostages lap?

I remeber the SAS used hammers lang din to gain entry sa iranian embassy seige
Nga lang mas malakas mga braso nila :)

Thanks Allegra for clarifying!

Noong hearing sabi ni Director Santiago di daw sila makakagamit ng frame charge to blast open the windows even if they had them because of the position of the hostages near the windows. Wala naman siya binanggit about the stun grenades. Though while they were talking about these grenades he never mentioned them being inapplicable sa situation.

Sa Iranian Embassy baka glass ang windows versus fiber/plexiglass?

As an aside, the fires that broke out during the raid of the SAS on the Iranian Embassy were said to have been caused by the stun grenades? Ewan ko lang kung iba na stun grenades noon at ngayon.

goodtj
08-27-2010, 06:43
in the end ang kalalabasan nito would be blaming the hostages kasi nanlaban sila kaya sila namatay

kristiansen
08-27-2010, 07:06
PNP has a MOA with the LRT/MRT so that there personnel could ride for free, as long as they are in complete uniform, on their lines.

You have to wonder, though, after this incident, should that policy still be instituted or maybe there should be a review of it?


thanks for the info sir.well,lets hope for the best........

Punisher_nbi45
08-27-2010, 08:51
Not to take away or apportion blame on anyone for this incident, that is to be determined after the investigation by people better than me. I simply deplore what I consider as unrealistic expectations on the part of senator flashbang and the exposure of information on LEO protocol that I believe could make our LEO's job harder and/or more dangerous if it got to the wrong people. These criminals might not know it all, but when the game involves lives I would prefer the cards very, very close to my chest and would want every advantage, no matter how small it may seem.

Sir, I agree with you on this point +100. Despite it being good tv, the fact that the very same exposure of LEO protocol, especially over broadcast media like television, is what is making our jobs hard. Information like this should be kept close at hand, because as we say, "you never know who is watching!!!"

Case in point, because of numerous television exposure, entrapment operations are harder now. Perps now know that when they see a dubious substance smeared over the bills, or if they are given bills in an envelope, they know not to touch them or, in some cases, let other people touch them. Heck, they just have the money wire-transferred or deposited into an account.

LEO operations, while very exciting to watch, should be treated as sacred just because we always want to keep the bad guy off-balance.

vega
08-27-2010, 16:32
Sir, I agree with you on this point +100. Despite it being good tv, the fact that the very same exposure of LEO protocol, especially over broadcast media like television, is what is making our jobs hard. Information like this should be kept close at hand, because as we say, "you never know who is watching!!!".

I remember when Ping Lacson was Chief PNP and he was under fire from some senators and they were asking him how he conducts his operations. He boldly answered, "madam senator, I would very much want to discuss with you how we conduct our operation but not on public TV, we do not want the undesirable to know the know-how".

I never did like Ping but I admire his guts when he put that senator in her place.

Allegra
08-27-2010, 18:34
Thanks Allegra for clarifying!

Noong hearing sabi ni Director Santiago di daw sila makakagamit ng frame charge to blast open the windows even if they had them because of the position of the hostages near the windows. Wala naman siya binanggit about the stun grenades. Though while they were talking about these grenades he never mentioned them being inapplicable sa situation.

Sa Iranian Embassy baka glass ang windows versus fiber/plexiglass?

As an aside, the fires that broke out during the raid of the SAS on the Iranian Embassy were said to have been caused by the stun grenades? Ewan ko lang kung iba na stun grenades noon at ngayon.


parang stun grenades nga yata na pumutok near the curtains

its just sad that unang pa na relieve yung mga men who risked their lives

darwin25
08-27-2010, 22:16
Eto pa isa! Kaya pala hindi ma-reach sa cellphone yung hostage taker eh eto may kasalanan http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/08/26/10/tulfo-admits-interview-mendoza-bloodbath

AH siya pala ang gagong yon.

darwin25
08-27-2010, 22:22
Did anyone catch the senate public hearing? Heard bits and pieces on the radio. Multiple face palms but noteworthy was the senator who was bragging about making his own flash bangs and lambasting the SWAT team for not making their own, and the multiple opsec failures. Among other things anyone watching now knows how the SAF defeats portal barriers, how they would have conducted the assault, and hostage negotiation techniques. A lone senator (JPE I think) realized the security issue and reminded the house, but not till after much information was revealed.

Something like this?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/tacticalfacepalm.jpg

z_e_n
08-28-2010, 06:55
Got an e-mail this morning...


Subject: Postcripts Of A BloodBath

Postcripts Of A BloodBath
by Bang Lu Min
(One of the Hostages)

Mr. Mendoza was already upset even before he saw on television what the policemen did to his brother. The other tourists who remained inside the bus were complaining. Wei Ji Jiang wanted to go to the bathroom. Dao Chi Yu was hungry and the rest were just groaning and whining like they have forgotten that our lives rest in Mr. Mendoza's hands.

The hostage taker, as you know him was really nice. He treated us okay and even let the elders and the children leave the bus. He said your policemen treated him unfairly. He was a policeman too and was accused of doing something he had no knowledge of. But your government didn't listen so he used us to get everyone's attention.

Things would have never turned for the worst if he didn't see how his family was dragged out of their house and taken into custody. He was watching the news all the time as we huddled around each other behind the bus. He shouted some words in your language then started shooting in the air. A girl about my age started screaming. Mr. Mendoza demanded her to stop but she didn't understand English. God, he had to slash her neck with a knife just to put her to rest. Her boyfriend who tried to hit him was shot in the head.

Tension was rising. You can see in his face how scared and confused he was. The bus driver ran away leaving him alone with strangers from a distant land. I can see him walking across the aisle, sometimes pointing his machine gun to one of the tourists. But he tried his best not to hurt us, especially those who really cooperate.

I guess its in your nature not to inflict pain on others unless it was necessary. I remember him saying that he will free us before sundown and implored us to forget everything when we return home. But his words don't matter now. The policemen were trying to force their way in, while we all lied down to shield ourselves from bullets. Mister Mendoza blindly shoots at his enemies which I think kept them from rescuing us. I hear sobs under the chairs. Some were even shouting the names of their loved ones even when the air merely eat their words. Kevin Tang tried to escape when the glass door was was shattered, but one shot and he slumped on the floor with blood gushing from his mouth.

Heavy rain pitter-pattered on the rooftop. In old Chinese saying, it means an end to a struggle. Finally, somebody was able to open the escape hatch at the back of the bus. Freedom. But I knew Mister Mendoza was still alive. I knew he was just waiting for a chance to strike back at his enemies. So I told those around me not to escape. Let the authorities come for us instead. Then there was gunfire. He was firing at his enemies with a machine gun. Those who were at the escape hatch fled abandoning us once again. It's like a nightmare with no end and to wake up means a certain death. Then somebody from outside the bus threw a canister. It forced out a black smoke that is so painful to the eyes and putrid smelling to the nose. People started screaming. We cannot breathe. Some ran in front of the bus but Mister Mendoza warned them of stray bullets. It was too late. One was hit on the head, the other was hit on the shoulders. Bullets were now flying. Its like the authorities thought we were all dead. Mister Mendoza finally realizes his mistake and said sorry to everyone, dead or alive. He then ran towards the front of the bus where he would meet his maker. As he passed by my chair with bullets whistling overhead, I clutched my hand on the velvet curtain and wrapped it around my face. All I could think of was to stay alive - for my child who is waiting for me back in Xinjang. I know I will survive,

I will come home.

Bang Lu Min
Survivor, Quirino Bloodbath

i_am_infinity
08-29-2010, 04:50
guys, alala nyo ung speed ni keanu reeves???? the BG knew everythng he was doing kasi naka broadcast din sa news every move nya...hehehe

i_am_infinity
08-29-2010, 04:59
guys, alala nyo ung speed ni keanu reeves???? the BG knew everythng he was doing kasi naka broadcast din sa news every move nya...hehehe

MAJINKONG
08-29-2010, 07:08
Pumapel masyado ang MPD SWAT. Merun SAF at LRB, bakit hinde sila ang ginamit? Tagal ng event, sigurado makakarating sila. Kaya mula now, Philippine MPD Swat ang KULELAT at BENCHMARK ng HOW NOT TO Do IT sa mundo ng swat.

ans3288
08-29-2010, 17:53
what does this achieve???


http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100828-289190/Super-SWAT-was-kept-out-of-the-loop

http://images.inquirer.net/media/newsinfo/inquirerheadlines/nation/images/pic-08280415220414.jpg

‘Super SWAT’ was kept out of the loop
By DJ Yap
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:23:00 08/28/2010

Filed Under: Police, Crime, hostage taking
MANILA, Philippines—At the Manila Police District (MPD), there’s a faction within the Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit known mockingly as “Super SWAT,” an elite squad composed of veteran marksmen and arms experts.

But Super SWAT was kept out of the loop during the Aug. 23 hostage drama at the Luneta Park that left eight tourists and the hostage-taker dead, much to the frustration of its leader, Senior Insp. Jonathan dela Cruz.

“That’s not the SWAT I know,” he said of the unsure, bumbling unit of men whose assault on the bus taken hostage by former Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza was captured live by cameras and made the subject of international derision.

“It’s embarrassing. We’re going to be used as an example of what not to do in a hostage situation,” he said Thursday night in an interview with some of his team members in a Manila restaurant.

Dela Cruz was supposed to have taken command of the MPD SWAT on Aug. 23, but a petition by some existing members—those who did not belong to his trusted circle—succeeded in retaining Chief Insp. Santiago Pascual as commander and keeping Dela Cruz and his team out of the action.

Pascual was later relieved with three other SWAT leaders as a result of their handling of the hostage crisis.

“Everybody here knows that it’s Dela Cruz who’s good. It’s a shame he wasn’t in command,” an MPD official not connected with SWAT nor with Dela Cruz said in a separate interview.

“Politics did him in,” said the official, who did not want to be named for lack of clearance to speak on the subject.

Watching in frustration

At the height of the crisis, Dela Cruz said he was relegated to the sidelines, watching in frustration as the events unfolded.

“I kept getting calls from people, from SWAT units in Metro Manila and my SWAT friends in the United States and Australia, and even British reporters, asking me what I was doing. They thought I was in command,” he said.

“I just told them: ‘I’m not there.’”

He said even his young daughters asked him, “Nandon ka (Were you there)?” and he felt embarrassed.

He would do it differently

Dela Cruz, 46, said he was not in any position to criticize and point out mistakes the SWAT members committed during the hostage crisis. However, he said he would have done things differently.

First, with regard to intelligence work, he would work closely with the negotiators and interrogate hostages who had been released to determine the positions of those inside the bus, he said. Once their positions were known, the next step would be to determine the entry point and where to breach the vehicle.

He said he would deploy only three people to storm the bus, but all of them must be fully decked in “Level 4” gear with bullet-proof vests and kneepads, Kevlar helmets, flashlights, M-16 rifles and handguns.

“Then we would decide on what action to take during the worst case scenario. If the worst case scenario is that the hostage-taker starts shooting at the hostages, then we go in,” he said.

Breach the front

Dela Cruz said he would order his men to use a detonating cord to blast the front part of the bus, which, in his opinion, was the ideal place to breach.

The three men would storm the vehicle, with halogen lights in position behind them to momentarily blind the hostage-taker. Their M-16 rifles would be equipped with flashlights to immediately zoom into the suspect and shoot him if necessary.

“The most damage he could have done was to shoot one of us, but he wouldn’t be able to take all three of us down,” he said.

“This would have been a good opportunity for Manila SWAT to show what it’s made of,” he said. “If the operation was successful, and I or one of my men died as a result, it would be worth it,” he said.

Glory days

Dela Cruz was commander of the MPD SWAT from 2007 to 2008, a period his subordinates liked to consider the “glory days” of the unit.

“At that time, we were the ‘Best of the Best SWAT’ in the country, according to the SAF (Special Action Force),” he said.

Super SWAT earned the moniker from its members’ penchant for wearing Level 4 gear all the time—decked out in bullet-proof vests, helmets and kneepads and carrying top-of-the-line M-16 rifles and handguns.

“Some people thought we looked arrogant because we were wearing all our equipment. That’s when they started calling us ‘Super SWAT.’ They said we were elitists,” Dela Cruz said.

One of his men chimed in: “It was not meant to be a compliment.”

Improvise

But Dela Cruz said: “We would need all that gear and equipment if we’re going to walk into a situation with confidence.”

He said confidence was crucial in dealing with potentially deadly situations, citing one hostage-taking incident when his squad was called in. “When the hostage-taker fired a shot, the men from other units ducked for cover, but we remained standing. Then we walked over to get to the suspect.”

He said his team, composed of less than 20 members, was a tightly knit family bonded together by a common interest in weapons and tactics.

Dela Cruz said a good SWAT unit did not need astronomical funds to be effective. The commander just has to be resourceful in finding equipment for his team, he said. He said this was what he did when he was SWAT commander, constantly on the lookout for new devices and equipment and would improvise based on the resources they had.

“In SWAT you don’t buy your equipment, you make your own,” he said, noting that the MPD SWAT currently uses Kevlar helmets and kneepads that he helped design when he was still commander.

“But more than the equipment and gear, the most important thing in a SWAT unit is the people. These are the people behind you and in front of you. You want men who are skilled and you can trust,” he said.

Trimming the fat

Which was why as SWAT commander, Dela Cruz trimmed the unit’s personnel down from 100 to 25, provoking an outcry from those who did not make the cut.

Dela Cruz said with scarce resources, he did not need 100 men to run a capable and efficient SWAT unit.

“One bullet can give you experience ... It’s not about quantity of the manpower. It’s about the knowledge that your men have,” he said.

He said his team was composed of men mostly in their 30s, unlike those deployed during the Luneta hostage crisis. “Those guys looked like they were still courting girls. They didn’t look like men raising families and building a future.”

Floating status

In 2008, Dela Cruz left the MPD SWAT to join the team of his former boss, Roberto Rosales, who was then just recently appointed director of the National Capital Regional Police Office (NCRPO). He was assigned to the NCRPO’s Light Reaction Unit. Then early this year, he was recommended to resume duty at the MPD SWAT.

If he had been allowed to re-assume command, he would have trimmed the bloated personnel again. This was probably why the current SWAT members were reluctant to have him on board.

The complaining members sent a petition to Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim asking him to retain Pascual as commander, a request that Lim granted.

“I was put on floating status as a result,” he said.

US-trained

Sought for a reaction, Lim said he did not know Dela Cruz and was not privy to the internal workings of the MPD SWAT.

Now, Dela Cruz said he had been recommended anew to head the MPD SWAT. But he said he was not confident that he would be reinstated.

“With this interview, I don’t know if I’ll be allowed to go back. But I’m OK with that. I just felt somebody had to say something. Now is the time for everyone to evaluate what went wrong and what should be done,” he said.

A civil engineering graduate of the Technological Institute of the Philippines, Dela Cruz joined the police force in 1987. “I rose from the ranks. I was PO1, PO2 and so on,” he said.

From 1991-1996, he received training in counterterrorism strategy and tactics from specialized police forces in Louisiana, US. The training was sponsored by the US Embassy.

Hostile encounters

As MPD SWAT commander, Dela Cruz had faced a number of hostile encounters with criminal elements, from hostage dramas to hijacking incidents and pursuits of fugitives. But none were of the scale of the Aug. 23 incident at Luneta.

By reputation, Dela Cruz is seen as something of a loose cannon.

He often terrified subordinates by “trying out” bulletproof gear while they were wearing it, that is, he would shoot it to demonstrate that the bullet would not penetrate it.

He also liked to experiment with explosives as a breaching tool. He admitted that a civilian was injured during one such experiment. “I took care of the hospital bills,” he said.

Allegra
08-29-2010, 20:19
just the inquirer trying to milk the issue yan

g300d
08-29-2010, 20:33
Punisher_nbi45 - o nga, sana lang ma-balance na mapakita ang kailangang mapakita sa public being we have a democracy here vs the need to keep secret certain sensitive information like certain LEO protocol.

vega - Good answer by Sen. Lacson, di rin ako fan nya but that was I think the right answer sa ganun at sa ganitong situation?

Allegra - Yes, I agree with you. Nakakalungkot. I hope that action does not result in a repeat of this situation by another disgruntled officer.

darwin25 - :rofl: Not quite, I don't have half the goodies those guys have!

Mas madali magsalita pag tapos na, but the ideas put out by Snr. Insp. Dela Cruz were very interesting to me, with regard to making do with what you have. Though I would not want to back-light myself with a spotlight going into a dark, cramped bus like that. Thanks for the link ans3288.

ans3288
08-29-2010, 20:44
and i thought media should be the ones practicing prudence and restraint? tapos sila pa ang taga-gatong??? sheesh, sensationalize to sell more?!? :steamed:

notice the guns being held and in the background, pwede pang IPSC...

just the inquirer trying to milk the issue yan

jasonub
08-30-2010, 04:53
parang si marcinko yan ha

Duckman1975
08-31-2010, 18:59
what does this achieve???


http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100828-289190/Super-SWAT-was-kept-out-of-the-loop

http://images.inquirer.net/media/newsinfo/inquirerheadlines/nation/images/pic-08280415220414.jpg

‘Super SWAT’ was kept out of the loop
By DJ Yap
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:23:00 08/28/2010

Filed Under: Police, Crime, hostage taking
MANILA, Philippines—At the Manila Police District (MPD), there’s a faction within the Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit known mockingly as “Super SWAT,” an elite squad composed of veteran marksmen and arms experts.

But Super SWAT was kept out of the loop during the Aug. 23 hostage drama at the Luneta Park that left eight tourists and the hostage-taker dead, much to the frustration of its leader, Senior Insp. Jonathan dela Cruz.

“That’s not the SWAT I know,” he said of the unsure, bumbling unit of men whose assault on the bus taken hostage by former Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza was captured live by cameras and made the subject of international derision.

“It’s embarrassing. We’re going to be used as an example of what not to do in a hostage situation,” he said Thursday night in an interview with some of his team members in a Manila restaurant.

Dela Cruz was supposed to have taken command of the MPD SWAT on Aug. 23, but a petition by some existing members—those who did not belong to his trusted circle—succeeded in retaining Chief Insp. Santiago Pascual as commander and keeping Dela Cruz and his team out of the action.

Pascual was later relieved with three other SWAT leaders as a result of their handling of the hostage crisis.

“Everybody here knows that it’s Dela Cruz who’s good. It’s a shame he wasn’t in command,” an MPD official not connected with SWAT nor with Dela Cruz said in a separate interview.

“Politics did him in,” said the official, who did not want to be named for lack of clearance to speak on the subject.

Watching in frustration

At the height of the crisis, Dela Cruz said he was relegated to the sidelines, watching in frustration as the events unfolded.

“I kept getting calls from people, from SWAT units in Metro Manila and my SWAT friends in the United States and Australia, and even British reporters, asking me what I was doing. They thought I was in command,” he said.

“I just told them: ‘I’m not there.’”

He said even his young daughters asked him, “Nandon ka (Were you there)?” and he felt embarrassed.

He would do it differently

Dela Cruz, 46, said he was not in any position to criticize and point out mistakes the SWAT members committed during the hostage crisis. However, he said he would have done things differently.

First, with regard to intelligence work, he would work closely with the negotiators and interrogate hostages who had been released to determine the positions of those inside the bus, he said. Once their positions were known, the next step would be to determine the entry point and where to breach the vehicle.

He said he would deploy only three people to storm the bus, but all of them must be fully decked in “Level 4” gear with bullet-proof vests and kneepads, Kevlar helmets, flashlights, M-16 rifles and handguns.

“Then we would decide on what action to take during the worst case scenario. If the worst case scenario is that the hostage-taker starts shooting at the hostages, then we go in,” he said.

Breach the front

Dela Cruz said he would order his men to use a detonating cord to blast the front part of the bus, which, in his opinion, was the ideal place to breach.

The three men would storm the vehicle, with halogen lights in position behind them to momentarily blind the hostage-taker. Their M-16 rifles would be equipped with flashlights to immediately zoom into the suspect and shoot him if necessary.

“The most damage he could have done was to shoot one of us, but he wouldn’t be able to take all three of us down,” he said.

“This would have been a good opportunity for Manila SWAT to show what it’s made of,” he said. “If the operation was successful, and I or one of my men died as a result, it would be worth it,” he said.

Glory days

Dela Cruz was commander of the MPD SWAT from 2007 to 2008, a period his subordinates liked to consider the “glory days” of the unit.

“At that time, we were the ‘Best of the Best SWAT’ in the country, according to the SAF (Special Action Force),” he said.

Super SWAT earned the moniker from its members’ penchant for wearing Level 4 gear all the time—decked out in bullet-proof vests, helmets and kneepads and carrying top-of-the-line M-16 rifles and handguns.

“Some people thought we looked arrogant because we were wearing all our equipment. That’s when they started calling us ‘Super SWAT.’ They said we were elitists,” Dela Cruz said.

One of his men chimed in: “It was not meant to be a compliment.”

Improvise

But Dela Cruz said: “We would need all that gear and equipment if we’re going to walk into a situation with confidence.”

He said confidence was crucial in dealing with potentially deadly situations, citing one hostage-taking incident when his squad was called in. “When the hostage-taker fired a shot, the men from other units ducked for cover, but we remained standing. Then we walked over to get to the suspect.”

He said his team, composed of less than 20 members, was a tightly knit family bonded together by a common interest in weapons and tactics.

Dela Cruz said a good SWAT unit did not need astronomical funds to be effective. The commander just has to be resourceful in finding equipment for his team, he said. He said this was what he did when he was SWAT commander, constantly on the lookout for new devices and equipment and would improvise based on the resources they had.

“In SWAT you don’t buy your equipment, you make your own,” he said, noting that the MPD SWAT currently uses Kevlar helmets and kneepads that he helped design when he was still commander.

“But more than the equipment and gear, the most important thing in a SWAT unit is the people. These are the people behind you and in front of you. You want men who are skilled and you can trust,” he said.

Trimming the fat

Which was why as SWAT commander, Dela Cruz trimmed the unit’s personnel down from 100 to 25, provoking an outcry from those who did not make the cut.

Dela Cruz said with scarce resources, he did not need 100 men to run a capable and efficient SWAT unit.

“One bullet can give you experience ... It’s not about quantity of the manpower. It’s about the knowledge that your men have,” he said.

He said his team was composed of men mostly in their 30s, unlike those deployed during the Luneta hostage crisis. “Those guys looked like they were still courting girls. They didn’t look like men raising families and building a future.”

Floating status

In 2008, Dela Cruz left the MPD SWAT to join the team of his former boss, Roberto Rosales, who was then just recently appointed director of the National Capital Regional Police Office (NCRPO). He was assigned to the NCRPO’s Light Reaction Unit. Then early this year, he was recommended to resume duty at the MPD SWAT.

If he had been allowed to re-assume command, he would have trimmed the bloated personnel again. This was probably why the current SWAT members were reluctant to have him on board.

The complaining members sent a petition to Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim asking him to retain Pascual as commander, a request that Lim granted.

“I was put on floating status as a result,” he said.

US-trained

Sought for a reaction, Lim said he did not know Dela Cruz and was not privy to the internal workings of the MPD SWAT.

Now, Dela Cruz said he had been recommended anew to head the MPD SWAT. But he said he was not confident that he would be reinstated.

“With this interview, I don’t know if I’ll be allowed to go back. But I’m OK with that. I just felt somebody had to say something. Now is the time for everyone to evaluate what went wrong and what should be done,” he said.

A civil engineering graduate of the Technological Institute of the Philippines, Dela Cruz joined the police force in 1987. “I rose from the ranks. I was PO1, PO2 and so on,” he said.

From 1991-1996, he received training in counterterrorism strategy and tactics from specialized police forces in Louisiana, US. The training was sponsored by the US Embassy.

Hostile encounters

As MPD SWAT commander, Dela Cruz had faced a number of hostile encounters with criminal elements, from hostage dramas to hijacking incidents and pursuits of fugitives. But none were of the scale of the Aug. 23 incident at Luneta.

By reputation, Dela Cruz is seen as something of a loose cannon.

He often terrified subordinates by “trying out” bulletproof gear while they were wearing it, that is, he would shoot it to demonstrate that the bullet would not penetrate it.

He also liked to experiment with explosives as a breaching tool. He admitted that a civilian was injured during one such experiment. “I took care of the hospital bills,” he said.

What a waste "right people for the right job."

atmarcella
08-31-2010, 21:58
na politico.... plus lim also gave the order to arrest the brother......... the old man should be held accountable...

9MX
09-01-2010, 09:38
what does this achieve???


http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100828-289190/Super-SWAT-was-kept-out-of-the-loop



i'm also wondering:upeyes:

Eye Cutter
09-01-2010, 17:38
sour graping siguro!

choi_tan2000
09-01-2010, 20:33
PNOY should call all this people everybody involed (heads only) and put at end to this mess. the more everyone speaks out at any venue, lalu gumugulo, everybody has their own side of the story.

the crisis of this mess is even becoming worse than the hostage crisis.

all involved shall meet once and for all and damn start making a solution and stop pointing fingers. everybody is at fault because there is no clean cut rules/policy/manual etc. until such time that we would have this then thats the time we can start sacking people for not doing their job or not doing their job right or well. without this we all assume and we make people like PSINS mendoza who is cant accept the system or who dont believe the system.



ex: in our labor conflicts most company even in the government looses its battle in terms of firing people is because there is no manual / or employee hand book. thats why it is hard to fire people (kahit pa bugok na talaga un tao) there is no clear basis.


also with the presence of this manual / policy etc we will now know whos who and whos realy responsible and who is not and what exactly everyone should do in any case. (in any specific case). then the training and equiptment will follow because all this shoould be based on what the unit / committee needs to finish the job. di pwede training ng training SWAT for no specific reason right? and their curiculum should be based on this manuals .

jimbullet
09-02-2010, 04:12
Rules of engagement yata ang manual nila?

CatsMeow
09-20-2010, 20:20
The report of the Incident Investigation Review Committee (IIRC). Pretty long, so I will just post the links:

Part 1
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=613732&publicationSubCategoryId=200

Part 2
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=613734&publicationSubCategoryId=200

Part 3
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=613736&publicationSubCategoryId=200

Part 4
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=613737&publicationSubCategoryId=200

Part 5
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=613738&publicationSubCategoryId=200