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OhioGlockMan
08-24-2010, 14:57
Hey has anybody loaded the frangible bullets in 10mm yet and have any data? They publish data for all the calibers except for 10mm, they even have data for 38 super with the sinter-fire bullets! Sinter fire makes the 40 cal bullets in 105 and 125 grain.

MSgt Dotson
08-25-2010, 09:20
At least for the 125 gr bullets, sHould be ok to start with upper middle loadings for 135 gr JHP data, I'd think....

OhioGlockMan
08-25-2010, 13:09
I really want data for the 40 cal 105 grain frangible bullet. They have data for it in .40 S&W @ close to 1500 fps, I'm thinking you could make that bullet scream at 1750 or so in the 10mm

HAMMERHEAD
08-25-2010, 16:15
Are you talking about the Sinterfire lead free practice frangibles, or a defensive frangible?

OhioGlockMan
08-25-2010, 23:57
I'm talking about the sinterfire frangible bullets

MakeMineA10mm
08-26-2010, 20:33
While I don't disagree generally that using 135 data isn't horribly bad, you also must keep in mind seating depth, because that plays a role in pressures as well. If the 125gr sinterfires are the size of a 165gr (for example - I've not seen in person, let alone loaded sinterfires), they are going to seat a LOT deeper than the 135s, and that changes the pressure situation, even though they are lighter. So, take measurements of the sinterfires and compare to a standard-construction bullet, and take that into consideration.

Also, one must consider construction. If they are a solid-composition bullet, like a Barnes X-bullet, they are going to increase pressure, because they won't yield as easily as a lead-core bullet.

All-in-all, I'd probably use load data for whatever weight they take up the same space as. So, if they take up the space of a 155, I'd use that data; a 165, I'd use that data...

HAMMERHEAD
08-28-2010, 06:38
Sinterfire recommends that you use data for a jacketed bullet of the same length.
In 9mm and .38 Super I used 125 jacketed data for the 100 grain frangible. In .45acp I just used .230 ball data for the 155 frang.
Velocities will be higher for the frangible of course. Faster powders seem to work better, probably because the bullets is out of the bore so quickly.

Please post your results with the 10mm, I hope to try them soon.
I buy mine from frangibleammo.com (http://www.frangibleammo.com).
What about you?

OhioGlockMan
09-06-2010, 20:15
Update, I called Sinterfire directly and had a long conversation with the tech. They used to make a 150 grain sinterfie frangible bullet (discontinued) and the only data they have is 7 grains of winchester 231 for 1225 FPS out of a 5 inc barrel, overall legenth of 1.26- this is with the 150 grain frangible. The tech told me to use 231 powder and work up to 7 grains and mabey a little higher with the 125 grain bullet. He said the 105 probably won't build enough pressure in the 10mm to get good velocity. He said you need to use a fast powder with the frangibles. I'm thinking of working my way to to like 7.5 grains of 231, I'll update when i get em ordered and work up that load.

OhioGlockMan
08-26-2011, 20:43
Ok Update (wow I see my last post on this issue is a year ago almost exact, wow). Well Sinterfire STILL has NO data for their bullets and the 10mm yet, so I did some testing with power pistol powder. I started at 9.8 grains and was getting about 1375 FPS and worked up to 10.4 grains and was getting around 1450 or so. Recoil was stout, cases showed no signs of overpressure. Oh this was in the 6 inch lone wolf barrel. Gun functioned fine and all, I am just dissapointed that it didn't hit up around 1600 FPS which is perfectly feasible in the 10mm with a 125 grainer AND the 6 inch barrel. For what its worth the case volume would not hold any more powder, it seemed like a compressed charge at 10.4

21Carrier
08-28-2011, 20:03
Try about 11.0 gr of 800-X. I got the 125gr Barnes bullets to 1460fps out of my 3.78" G29 barrel with 11.4gr. That load is compressed, but should do 1600-1700fps in your 6" barrel. The Barnes bullets are similar, as they are as long as a 180gr bullet. with 800-X, I bet you could go to 12.0gr or higher without pressure signs. I stopped at 11.4gr with very light case expansion because I ran out of bullets.

Other powders to try would be Longshot and Power Pistol. I would start Longshot around 10gr and work up. I bet you could get to 13-14gr without issues. With Power Pistol, start around 9.5gr and go up. I bet you will have to stop around 12gr. All of this is with CCI 300s and a COAL of 1.26"

OhioGlockMan
08-28-2011, 21:33
21 Carrier, you are right on the money, the Sinterfire 125's are the exact same size as regular leaded 180's, so they must be the same as the Barnes bullets. Read the details in my last post- I did try Power Pistol up to 10.4 grains and it was compressed- now I'm fairly new to reloading so I how much can you compress a load?? FWIW Barnes lists this as a 111% compressed charge (10.4 power pistol with their 125 grain bullet, which is the same size).

21Carrier
08-29-2011, 20:46
21 Carrier, you are right on the money, the Sinterfire 125's are the exact same size as regular leaded 180's, so they must be the same as the Barnes bullets. Read the details in my last post- I did try Power Pistol up to 10.4 grains and it was compressed- now I'm fairly new to reloading so I how much can you compress a load?? FWIW Barnes lists this as a 111% compressed charge (10.4 power pistol with their 125 grain bullet, which is the same size).

Yeah, I tried that load, too. I actually went up to 11.0gr with Power Pistol, but saw no gains over 10.4gr, likely due to my G29's short barrel. I got 1300fps with PP (also got 1300fps with 8.6gr Unique). I got 1460fps with 11.4gr 800-X. That is compressed. You might be able to get more in the case, but I ran out of bullets at 11.4gr, so I'm not sure.

I have a work up of Longshot ready to test (10.7-13.0gr) but I haven't fired them yet. I have a feeling Longshot will be the powder to use. I think 800-X WOULD be the best, but it's too bulky. I'm running out of space with the 13.0gr LS load, but I think it should beat the 11.4gr 800-X load's velocity.

Until I get some hard numbers with the Longshot, I can tell you that 11.4gr of 800-X will DEFINITELY get you over 1600 fps with your 6" barrel. You might hit 1600fps with about 11.0gr. If you shoot the frangible bullets a lot, I think you should buy some Longshot and 800-X. They are by far the best two 10mm powders.


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21Carrier
08-29-2011, 20:54
Oh yeah, about compressed loads, it all depends on the powder. Some powders can be heavily compressed (like 800-X) since they have large flakes and lots of air space mixed in. Powders like Power Pistol are likely to not compress as well. Just watch for bullet rebound in heavily compressed loads. If the charge is really compressed, it could push the bullet back out of the case. It can also cause the case to bulge. Finally, some powders may burn differently when compressed, so work up slowly and carefully if you don't know the powder. 800-X seemed to like being compressed. But I'm not sure about Longshot. As soon as I get to test the Longshot workup, I'll let you know how it went. I'm hoping to hit 1600fps with my G29. If I can get to even 1550fps, that load should make 1700fps or more with your barrel. Plus, your bullets are 20gr lighter, so that will add even more.

Aloxite
08-31-2011, 06:17
Wideners is selling IMI 125 grain Frangible 10mm bullets. $70 per 1000 shipping included.

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|281|304|325

OhioGlockMan
08-31-2011, 11:16
Aloxite, looks like a good buy on those frangibles, man I just wish someone would come out with some listed data for them and the 10mm!! For goodness sakes they even have data for frangibles and the less popular 38 super.

21 Carrier- you got me tempted to try a pound of 800X. I've just mostly used blue dot thus far with 10mm because it has been performing so well for me, I clock high 1300's with 11 grain of blue dot and a 180 grainer (with 6 inch barrel of course), I think that's going to be tuf order for 800 to beat, we will see!

21Carrier
09-01-2011, 14:00
Aloxite, looks like a good buy on those frangibles, man I just wish someone would come out with some listed data for them and the 10mm!! For goodness sakes they even have data for frangibles and the less popular 38 super.

21 Carrier- you got me tempted to try a pound of 800X. I've just mostly used blue dot thus far with 10mm because it has been performing so well for me, I clock high 1300's with 11 grain of blue dot and a 180 grainer (with 6 inch barrel of course), I think that's going to be tuf order for 800 to beat, we will see!

Oh, no. Trust me, 800-X will slaughter that number. I've gotten 180gr bullets to almost 1300fps out of my G29's stock 3.78" barrel. I've gotten 135gr Noslers to 1550fps, and 165gr bullets to about 1400fps. With a 6" barrel, I would think you could get the 180gr bullets to 1400fps with 800-X. I use a lot of Blue Dot as well, and actually use more of it because 800-X meters so poorly. But in my experience, nothing can beat 800-X for pure speed in 10mm, and that has held true with all bullet weights. Longshot is another good alternative, and probably the best all around 10mm powder. You can get almost as much velocity, but it meters well. If you like 10mm, and velocity, you owe it to yourself to buy a jug of 800-X (or both).

Burien
09-09-2011, 21:57
Just done shooting the IMI 125 gr Frangibles out of my Glock 29 w/ KKM factory lenght results:

800x 8.0 gr LPP = 1170 @ 1.260"

Tite-group 6.0 gr LPP = 1225 @ 1.260

Best shooting load was REX II 6.0 gr = 1145 @ 1.260 Very Very good shooting

VERY nice shooting frang ammo at steel I went as close as 6 feet from the steel plate and then just barley felt a grain of sand on my leg with shorts. They just turn to dust, very nice!

I place a piece of paper a few inches from the plate, and it caught the splatter, looked like a sand blaster!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n536/ninemmm/100_3163.jpg

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n536/ninemmm/100_3165.jpg

I shot a plate of regular soft steel and it dented it from a short distance, but the 135 gr Hydro Shock Damaged it pretty good at 40 yards!

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n536/ninemmm/100_3167.jpg

Burien
09-09-2011, 21:59
Cheapest I can find other Frangible components for .400 is $140 a thousand plus shipping, you cant loose with this stuff, HIGHLY reccomend picking them up...

That way I dont have to do all the load builing up work :)

going to see how fast i can send them

HAMMERHEAD
09-15-2011, 18:07
Thanks for the R&D fella's.

OhioGlockMan
09-16-2011, 16:52
Thanks for the R&D fella's.

Speaking of R&D- If you all want to help please call Sinterfire and apply a little pressure for them to come up with some load data with their bullets in 10mm, I do about once every 6 months. They keep giving me the runaround, you know its not a mainstream round etc- but they developed data in .357 sig and even 38 super. If they get enough calls I bet they will develop data in our favorite auto pistol round

ohiokon
09-23-2011, 10:34
Well guys I broke down and ordered 1000 IMI 125 grnr's from wideners this morning. Gonna try em with LS and 800X. For $70 shipped how can you lose for plinking ammo. How do these react when pushed to 10mm velocities? Anybody ever load these in 40 short and wimpy? Reason I ask is I have a action shoot in 2 weeks and was going to shoot one round with 10 and other with 40. Thanks

Burien
09-25-2011, 15:56
Just done shooting the IMI 125 gr Frangibles out of my Glock 29 w/ KKM factory length results:

800x 9.5 gr LPP = 1325 @ 1.260"

Tite-group 6.5 gr LPP = 1265 @ 1.260

All cases looked fine, no visual signs of pressure, cycle with 24# spring

21Carrier
09-25-2011, 17:20
Just done shooting the IMI 125 gr Frangibles out of my Glock 29 w/ KKM factory length results:

800x 9.5 gr LPP = 1325 @ 1.260"

Tite-group 6.5 gr LPP = 1265 @ 1.260

All cases looked fine, no visual signs of pressure, cycle with 24# spring

Burien, if these bullets are the same ones that Ohiokon has been talking about, and the same length as the Barnes 125gr bullets, you should be able to go up to 11.4gr of 800-X and get about 1460fps. I'm away from home now, but PM me tomorrow if I forget to give you my Barnes length measurements (they are a TINY bit shorter than a 180gr JHP, and about identical to a 175gr Silvertip). Obviously, they are a different bullet, regardless of just length and weight, so work it up slowly, but I got to 11.4gr of 800-X with only .433" case expansion (1460fps). That load is very compressed, but I didn't get any case bulges or bullet push-back, so there should be a little room left. I think if there's room for 12.0-12.5gr, we could get the Barnes/Sinterfire bullets to 1550fps+ out of the G29, and 1700fps+ from the G20. Plus, the pressure SHOULD still be safe.

By the way, all of this was with CCI 300s, COAL of 1.260", and using my stock Glock barrel.

ohiokon
09-25-2011, 17:33
Burien, if these bullets are the same ones that Ohiokon has been talking about, and the same length as the Barnes 125gr bullets, you should be able to go up to 11.4gr of 800-X and get about 1460fps. I'm away from home now, but PM me tomorrow if I forget to give you my Barnes length measurements (they are a TINY bit shorter than a 180gr JHP, and about identical to a 175gr Silvertip). Obviously, they are a different bullet, regardless of just length and weight, so work it up slowly, but I got to 11.4gr of 800-X with only .433" case expansion (1460fps). That load is very compressed, but I didn't get any case bulges or bullet push-back, so there should be a little room left. I think if there's room for 12.0-12.5gr, we could get the Barnes/Sinterfire bullets to 1550fps+ out of the G29, and 1700fps+ from the G20. Plus, the pressure SHOULD still be safe.

By the way, all of this was with CCI 300s, COAL of 1.260", and using my stock Glock barrel.

I have a 6" LW ported barrel for my 20sf. Any concerns shooting the high test loads from a barrel that long?

Burien
09-25-2011, 17:43
They are .633'' long

At $70 a thousand delivered, it's cheaper to shoot then 9mm, I cant belive they lasted in stock this long.

I hope they last a few more days till payday! :)

21Carrier
09-25-2011, 18:17
I have a 6" LW ported barrel for my 20sf. Any concerns shooting the high test loads from a barrel that long?

I would THINK that 11.4gr 800-X, CCI 300s, and a COAL of 1.260" would be plenty safe, especially given you're using an aftermarket barrel. However, you should always work up to it for safety.

They are .633'' long

At $70 a thousand delivered, it's cheaper to shoot then 9mm, I cant belive they lasted in stock this long.

I hope they last a few more days till payday! :)

THEY ARE $70 PER 1000?!?! How did I miss that?!?! I also hope they last til payday. I'll be buying a thousand as well. I think the 125gr Barnes TAC-XP is .620-.630" in length, but I'll have to check. I know most 180gr JHPs are around .630", and the Barnes is about identical. That's $0.07 per round. How did I not pick up on that price when Aloxite first posted about them?! Damn, I hope they last! I have no need for frangible ammo, but I can't pass up on that. Plus, there's a new indoor range about to open about a mile from my house, and who knows, they might require lead-free bullets.

EDIT: I just checked them out, and they also have great prices on the IMI 165gr FMJs ($99/1000) and 180gr FMJs ($107/1000). I might have to get a thousand of the FMJs as well. I can never have too many bullets.

ohiokon
09-25-2011, 20:38
I would THINK that 11.4gr 800-X, CCI 300s, and a COAL of 1.260" would be plenty safe, especially given you're using an aftermarket barrel. However, you should always work up to it for safety.



THEY ARE $70 PER 1000?!?! How did I miss that?!?! I also hope they last til payday. I'll be buying a thousand as well. I think the 125gr Barnes TAC-XP is .620-.630" in length, but I'll have to check. I know most 180gr JHPs are around .630", and the Barnes is about identical. That's $0.07 per round. How did I not pick up on that price when Aloxite first posted about them?! Damn, I hope they last! I have no need for frangible ammo, but I can't pass up on that. Plus, there's a new indoor range about to open about a mile from my house, and who knows, they might require lead-free bullets.

EDIT: I just checked them out, and they also have great prices on the IMI 165gr FMJs ($99/1000) and 180gr FMJs ($107/1000). I might have to get a thousand of the FMJs as well. I can never have too many bullets.

Im pretty sure I saw a post on here about the IMI 180's being small diameter wise. The 165's are supposed to be good. Next order I place with Wideners will be for 1k of the 165's even though I would rather have the 180's. But for $99/1k shipped I won't complain too much!!!

21Carrier
09-26-2011, 09:24
Im pretty sure I saw a post on here about the IMI 180's being small diameter wise. The 165's are supposed to be good. Next order I place with Wideners will be for 1k of the 165's even though I would rather have the 180's. But for $99/1k shipped I won't complain too much!!!

I think I remember seeing that, too. It seems like someone posted that they were about .399". That's not that big of a problem, since most Nosler bullets are .399" in my experience. Every box I've bought has checked in at .399", and that' includes all bullet weights (135gr, 150gr, 180gr, 200gr). I've never had a problem with them, except with worn out nickel brass and the short bullets. They get set-back easily.

ohiokon
09-26-2011, 14:31
I ordered my bullets on the morning of the 23rd and to my surprise the bullets just showed up! Thats quick service from Wideners for sure. Time to get busy with the 800x!

Burien
09-26-2011, 16:30
Nice to have stuff arrive early! Looks like LOTS of people have been ordering, they show online inventory of only 36 lots of 1000 remain, maybe more are sitting, but you better get them while you can.

Frknnutz
09-26-2011, 22:59
They still have the IMI on sale per 1000 (I40125 IMI BULK .40(.400) 125gr Frangible Projectile $70/1000 Pre-Paid (http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000340&dir=278%7C281%7C1082%7C1144)) Bought 1000 about a week ago and 2000 today.

ohiokon
09-28-2011, 09:43
They still have the IMI on sale per 1000 (I40125 IMI BULK .40(.400) 125gr Frangible Projectile $70/1000 Pre-Paid (http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000340&dir=278%7C281%7C1082%7C1144)) Bought 1000 about a week ago and 2000 today.

Have you had a chance to load any?

Frknnutz
09-28-2011, 13:49
Have you had a chance to load any?

I will be loading some up tomorrow. I am on a business trip and getting back tonight.

I have been informed that for a .40 125 gr bullet, I should use the load data for a 165 gr bullet. For TightGroup that is about 4.3 gr to start. Any comments from the group regarding this advice?

ohiokon
09-28-2011, 15:21
I will be loading some up tomorrow. I am on a business trip and getting back tonight.

I have been informed that for a .40 125 gr bullet, I should use the load data for a 165 gr bullet. For TightGroup that is about 4.3 gr to start. Any comments from the group regarding this advice?

I used 180 grn xtp data. The 125grn are.633 long and the xtp are .620. I won't have a chance to shoot any until fri at the earliest. I loaded 50 with 10 grns of LS. I know from my factory barrel with 10.2grns LS with a 180grn xtp that is a safe load for me and feels like a 10mm when shot. I am going to try to work up some over 800x to shoot fri also. I hope everybody that bought these will share some load info!

Burien
09-28-2011, 17:06
some data on page one for tightgroup

Frknnutz
09-28-2011, 21:56
some data on page one for tightgroup

Loaded up 50 rnds of .40 125 gr IMI frangible with 4.7 gr of Tightgroup. Will hit the range tomorrow and see how they print and will update then.

Update: Worked up loads as follows: 4.6, 4.7, and 4.8 gr of Tightgroup. Decided to go to the range tomorrow with 150 rnds total of all three loads to justify the range fee. Will update with results from all three work-ups with matching head-stamps. I will be testing Federal and Winchester brass from each group. Pulled bullets from each and verified no bullet deformity. All groups will be 5 rnds each and will be from a warm barrel (burn five then begin test) and my calibrated sense of touch to determine uniformity, lol.....

Disclaimer: I have been saving my brass for over ten years for the day that I would start reloading. I have haunted the reloading forums for as much time and have learned the following:

1. Bought a Dillon 550B.
2. Followed the installation instructions on DVD that came with it.
3. Really, I did!
4. Ok, I will fess up: I loaded 100 rnds of .40 before I discovered the primer tube that comes with it is set up for large primers.
5. Loaded another 100 rnds and was wondering why are my primers flopping upside-down and sideways?
6. Discovered the primer bar for small primers and installed. Fixed problem, re-seated all 200 rnds.

Have fun and feel free to give me ****e as I deserve it.

A good looking round, no matter how pretty it is, does not a good round make. No matter how shiny the brass and no matter how much you think you know from haunting the forums, the basic following instructions and paying attention to detail regarding the actual act of reloading will humble you.

Frknnutz
09-30-2011, 17:18
:drillsgt: Buy'em now!

Here are the results of the .40 IMI 125 frangible:

OAL: 1.14

Powder: Hogdon TightGroup

Fired with Glock 23, stock barrel, two stage recoil spring, 3 lb trigger.

25 yd, five rounds ea. group measured extreme spread:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27126512@N00/6201363081/in/photostream

4.6 gr .75"
4.7 gr .75"
4.8 gr 1.0"

My next purchase will be a chronograph to complete the data. After the test groups, I fired fifty rounds of each, double tap. Brass showed no sign of excess pressure. There is no reloading data I can find for these 125 gr FMJ FP, so I used the data for the SinterFire 125 gr. I went a little long on the OAL (Recommended 1.12, I went with 1.14).

Frknnutz
10-01-2011, 16:49
It's payday! I am happy with the grouping and reliability consistency and just dropped $140 for 2000 more from Weidner's. Hope you all get your orders in before they are gone!

Disclaimer: I do not work for Weidner's and receive no compensation. My only relationship with them is as a customer that pays the same price as we all do. Sorry if my strong promotion of the bullets seems like a sales pitch. I have not seen a deal like this in quite a while and only bought 1k to test and another 2k after. In my opinion, these are the best value and performance that I have seen for very good quality range bullets.