357 magnum Golden Saber--a great choice for carry in a snubie ? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Glockbuster
08-25-2010, 08:39
A while ago I was sold on energy, and momentum and what not. I still take these factors into consideration when a large handgun is involved.
But for a snubbie, and particularly a scandium alloy snubie, many people downgrade to 38 special +p because of recoil. Other manufacturers like Speer have a specially developed short barrel load.

Not much is said about Remignton Golden Saber 357 Magnum. Reading the specs velocity for the 125 gr. bullet is only 1220 fps out of a 4 inch revolver. That pales in comparison to their R357M1 SJHP load at 1450 FPS. But who cares if a snubie is being used ? the bullet is designed to expand at low velocities and I'm thinking it is a great carry load in my 340 pd

any opinions ?

Little Joe
08-25-2010, 09:31
It depends on what kind of snubbie. In my 340pd(Airweight) the bullets remaining to be fired start creeping forward out of their cases and the cylinder locks up after the 3rd shot. The 357 Short Barrel is THE round for a 340pd in my experience.

fastbolt
08-25-2010, 09:33
Hey, whatever suits your anticipated desires and personal preferences ...

On the other hand, you might bear in mind that since you're talking about a 340PD with a titanium cylinder, you might remember S&W's recommendation to test whatever ammunition/load may interest you for bullet pull (jump), as described in their manual.

Although my M&P 340 has a steel cylinder and weighs about a couple of ounces more than the PD version, because of the light weight and the heavy recoil of Magnum loads I check all the loads I commonly shoot in it for bullet pull.

When I tested some Rem 125gr GS Magnum loads I observed that the 5th round in my M&P 340 exhibited some bullet movement forward out of the case mouth ... when being fired in my hands, using rounds from one particular box of GS ammunition. I noticed the same thing with a couple of other brands/loads I took for function testing, too, as well as a couple of brands which didn't exhibit any signs of bullet movement.

Considering the potential for production tolerance variance among production lots, I'm inclined to continue to test fire at least a couple of cylinder loads from each new box of Magnum ammunition I may care to occasionally use in my own M&P 340 to check for signs of bullet pull before using the ammunition for practice or carry purpose. I even check the +P loads I normally carry in the gun, even though they recoil significantly less, and even though now that I've replaced the original grips my M&P 340 weighs in at just over 14+ oz (compared to my 15oz 642-1's) instead of 13.3oz in its original configuration. The current 340PD weighs in at about 11.4oz.

Just a thought.

BOGE
08-25-2010, 09:55
Tell ya what. If I were carrying a .357 or a .38 snubbie it'd be Corbon DPX.


http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon%20357%20Magnum%20125%20gr%20DPX%20Ammo.htm

Glockbuster
08-25-2010, 10:40
Hey, whatever suits your anticipated desires and personal preferences ...

On the other hand, you might bear in mind that since you're talking about a 340PD with a titanium cylinder, you might remember S&W's recommendation to test whatever ammunition/load may interest you for bullet pull (jump), as described in their manual.

Although my M&P 340 has a steel cylinder and weighs about a couple of ounces more PD version, because of the light weight and the heavy recoil of Magnum loads I check all the loads I commonly shoot in it for bullet pull.

When I tested some Rem 125gr GS loads I observed that the 5th round in my M&P 340 exhibited some bullet movement forward out of the case mouth ... when being fired in my hands, using rounds from one particular box of GS ammunition. I noticed the same thing with a couple of other brands/loads I took for function testing, too, as well as a couple of brands which didn't exhibit any signs of bullet movement.

Considering the potential for production tolerance variance among production lots, I'm inclined to continue to test fire at least a couple of cylinder loads from each new box of Magnum ammunition I may care to occasionally use in my own M&P 340 to check for signs of bullet pull before using the ammunition for practice or carry purpose. I even check the +P loads I normally carry in the gun, even though they recoil significantly less, and even though now that I've replaced the original grips my M&P 340 weighs in at just over 14+ oz (compared to my 15oz 642-1's) instead of 13.3oz in its original configuration. The current 340PD weighs in at about 11.4oz.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the useful info Fastbolt....not good for my GS idea. Can you tell me what you think is the difference between the Gold Dot short barrel and the 125 gr. GS loads ? they both seem to be light loads for 357 magnum. I don't know if Speer has some extra crimp built in their SB versions.

fastbolt
08-25-2010, 10:52
Thanks for the useful info Fastbolt....not good for my GS idea. Can you tell me what you think is the difference between the Gold Dot short barrel and the 125 gr. GS loads ? they both seem to be light loads for 357 magnum. I don't know if Speer has some extra crimp built in their SB versions.

In the original .38 Spl +P 135gr loading they created a revised bullet design intended to offer more consistent expansion when fired in the authorized S&W J-frames in use by NYPD. I haven't kept up on what they did for the rest of the calibers incorporated in the SB product line.

On the face of it, their advertising seems to indicate they've refined their SB offerings to be optimized for the reduced velocities realized in many of the shorter barreled pistols & revolvers popular among LE and public customers who choose to use the smaller models.

Also, bear in mind that my purpose for using the italics function in my previous post was to indicate that it was those specific loads, fired in my specific M&P 340, in my hands, on that day, that exhibited those results. That's certainly not to say that other loads from a different box/production lot might not produce different results on another day. That's why I'd prefer to test fire rounds from different boxes before using them. That means I'll also test fire randomly chosen rounds from any new boxes of even the loads which didn't exhibit any bullet pull in my previous tests. Better safe than sorry, I'd think, even if it is a bit expensive at today's ammunition prices.

fredj338
08-25-2010, 13:07
My only issue is all 125gr loads print low in most 357snubs. So to avoid 6"-8" lower POI, I like the 145gr WSTHP.

Glolt20-91
08-26-2010, 23:56
Remington makes two versions of the 125gr GS bullet, one designed for .38 Special velocites and one for .357mag velocities. If you handload, I'd suggest using the .38 Special GS in a snubbie.

Remington's 125gr SJHP meets its advertised 1450fps MV as chronographed through a 4" Dan Wesson, 1610fps from a 6" M686.

I've tested Hornady's Critical Defense ammo that uses their 125gr FTX bullet; that ammo would be on my short list for a lightweight .357mag. This bullet expanded w/i a redwood 4x4 and should ballpark about 13.2" of penetration in ballistic gel at a low 1275fps/MV. Recoil was light in a 4" Dan Wesson.


Another nice performing combination for a pocket revolver is the .327 Federal Mag with 115gr Gold Dots. From a 2" barrel it chronoed at 1381fps, expanded to 0.546" with a calculated 13.8" of penetration. Recoil is light, but there is some muzzle blast.

Having witnessed the violent recoil of a 2 1/2" M66 firing Remington 158gr SJHP, I've steered clear of lightweight revolvers chambered in .357mag. Just my $.02 :dunno:

Bob :cowboy:

Ak.Hiker
08-27-2010, 00:47
In such a light weight revolver as the 340 bullet pull would be a very big concern. I like the 125 grain GS in a steel snub like the SP 101 as well as the hotter 125 grain SJHP loads like the Federal. In the 340 I would stick with the 38 Special +P loads like the Speer 135 grain Gold Dot +P.

Glockbuster
08-27-2010, 09:30
Thanks much guys. I carry 125 Rem SJHP that I have from old well kept stock in my 2.5 M66, but I have fired this from my 340 and no way I'm carrying it, for the reasons that all of you have stated above.
I have been told to use the Gold Dot .357 Mag 135gr. SB, but this is not available here and will not be. But GS 125 gr. is available brand new. I think it is toned down because velocity as advertised is only 1220 fps out of a 4". That's 230 fps less than the R357M1 load, and therefore I think would kick considerably less. The hollow point cavity and serrations also dictate the bullet will open up reliably at those lower velocities than the SJHP counterpart. Does anyone know if the GS bullet has the serrated neck like the others to help crimp it real tight ?

detroitdiablo
08-27-2010, 14:43
Just my opinion but I carry a 340pd as a backup gun everyday and have had the opportunity to shoot just about every type of 357 mag load in it as far as hollowpoints go. Just my opinion but STAY AWAY from all of the 125 gr bullets! I don't care what brand they all fail in this type of gun. What I mean by fail is that once you start firing at some point one or more of the remaining rounds will begin to unseat the bullet and the cylinder will jam. This happens for some reason more consistently with the hotter of the 125gr bullets, but I have seen it on all 125's I have shot at least once with every type of load. This never happens with the heavier bullets. Personally the best round I have found for this gun is the Federal vital shock Barnes X-pander 140gr. No failures ever with over a hundred of them through the gun. I also have never had a problem with any 158gr in my gun, but the 140gr is a little more comfortable on my hand and close to the ideal 135 gr. bullet. Just my thoughts.

Glockbuster
08-27-2010, 14:59
This is valuable info you are providing me with here.....coincides with other folks who advice staying away from the 125 grainers. I think I'm going to have to go with my 125 gr. 38 Spl+p Nyclads or my 130 gr. SXT also in 38 spl. until I can get my hands on some Gold Dot short barrel ammo.

fastbolt
08-27-2010, 16:00
I found the 357 Magnum Hydra-Shok® JHP 130gr PD357HS2H Premium® Personal Defense® load to be one of the loads that exhibited no signs of bullet pull in my M&P 340, but it was not pleasant to shoot.

I generally don't mind felt recoil, muzzle blast or whip/torque effect in Magnum revolvers, either. I enjoy shooting all manner of Magnum loads in my 6-shot .357 & .44 Magnum revolvers. The last time I took an assortment of upwards of 100 rounds of various bullet weight Magnum loads (125gr - 180gr, as I recall) to use with a 2 1/2" M66, shooting from 5-80 yards, it reminded me how much I used to enjoy shooting .357 Magnum revolvers for recreation. When I was an avid handloader I used to think that making several hundred Magnum rounds for my .357 & .44 revolvers, and then spending an afternoon shooting them up (sometimes upwards of 700 rounds in one day), was an enjoyable way to spend my free time.

Shooting most Magnum loads through that M&P 340, however, is not how I enjoy spending my time. :whistling: That's why I use .38 Spl +P loads for much of my training/practice and for carry usage.

I haven't come across any of the Federal vital shock Barnes X-pander 140gr in local stores, but considering how well i sued to like the 140gr bullet weight in that caliber, I might keep an eye out for a couple of boxes and try it in my M&P 340. I like the concept of the Barnes bullet. I'd wonder how well it would do when fired out of a short J-frame, though, in the 4-layer denim/gel test.

I still have some of that fed Hydra-Shok 130gr Magnum loads in case I ever decide to load the M&P 340 with Magnum ammunition. I'd much rather get the Ruger SP101 DAO out of the safe if I wanted to shoot Magnum loads out of 5-shot revolver, though.