.38 spl +p: Corbon DPX or Speer Gold Dot? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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phred119
08-25-2010, 16:40
Does anyone have any comparison info between the Corbon 110 grain DPX round vs. the Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel Gold Dot in a S&W J frame or Ruger LCR?

Berto
08-25-2010, 19:21
The Speer gets it's advertised velocity, the Corbon often doesn't.

BWT
08-25-2010, 19:35
I found the Speer easier on the hand. Those are my two favorite rounds tho.

mikegun
08-25-2010, 21:51
I found the Speer easier on the hand. Those are my two favorite rounds tho.

I use both,, and i find the Speer is a little easier on the hand, but i prefer the DPX, in my LCR, to me its a louder more ACCURate more powerful round, DPX is that way especially in 38+P.ammo i try and use DPX in my Glock 23, my LCR and MY LCP, they make a very good 380 round as well, i use all DPX for carry only as it is very expensive....

BOGE
08-25-2010, 22:15
The DPX will always open up. Repeat: ALWAYS. No other bullet can make that claim. NONE. You make the choice.

cowboy1964
08-26-2010, 08:23
The DPX will always open up. Repeat: ALWAYS. No other bullet can make that claim. NONE. You make the choice.

There's no such thing as "always". Cor-bon certainly doesn't market it as such.

I just wish DPX wasn't $1.50 a round. Makes it a bit impractical to test 100+ rounds in multiple guns.

Glolt20-91
08-26-2010, 09:25
The DPX will always open up. Repeat: ALWAYS. No other bullet can make that claim. NONE. You make the choice.

I'm not sure how many shallow cavity Gold Dots you've personally tested; but the hundreds I've tested have always expanded, they don't plug up. Limited expansion testing with Hornady's FTX bullet has been positive.

Bob :cowboy:

degoodman
08-26-2010, 10:22
Does anyone have any comparison info between the Corbon 110 grain DPX round vs. the Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel Gold Dot in a S&W J frame or Ruger LCR?

They both shoot good. They're both hot, so shooting them for an extended session in a snubbie isn't all that fun. They'll both ruin a BG's afternoon if you put one in the boiler room. Neither are a magic death ray.

Good luck finding the DPX for less than $1.20 - $1.50 a round. The component bullet, all by itself, is around $.80 each.

The GDSB round is obtainable fairly consistently around here for $.45 - $.60 a round in LE packaging at gun shows. If you're really pinched, its around $1 a round in 20 round civilian boxes. No matter how you slice it, its a damn sight cheaper to shoot.

Little Joe
08-26-2010, 10:57
The DPX will always open up. Repeat: ALWAYS. No other bullet can make that claim. NONE. You make the choice.

Would the DPX penetrate a soft body armor vest? More criminals are wearing them these days. If so, I would prefer a mag full of DPX to get things started if that situation was forced upon me.



LJ

fastbolt
08-26-2010, 11:20
Both rounds are not commonly found in the gun stores where I've looked in recent years, and when they are found the prices are high.

The Speer 135gr +P load seems to have established a decent reputation among knowledgeable folks who have tested it. It exhibited decent penetration & expansion when I watched it tested in a hosted gel test event (fired from a S&W 360PD) some years ago, when it was just being released on the market. It's one of the loads I use in my J-frames, but not the only one. I've had some luck keeping a small quantity replenished for J-frames, but scarcity has resulted in me continuing to keep some other loads at hand, too (like the Rem GS +P and LHP +P loads).

Some folks aren't able to accurately & effectively shoot their J-frames with +P loads, however, and continue to use various standard pressure loads, including the old fashioned target wadcutter. Accuracy and placement is better than misses, regardless of the load & bullet, I'd suspect.

The short-barreled 5-shot revolvers generally require more of the shooter in the way of ability than the larger revolvers. The very attributes which make so handy and attractive for lawful concealed carry usually make them harder to shoot.

Berto
08-26-2010, 12:36
There's no such thing as "always". Cor-bon certainly doesn't market it as such.

I just wish DPX wasn't $1.50 a round. Makes it a bit impractical to test 100+ rounds in multiple guns.


I agree, I've seen examples of partially expanded DPX .38's, the problem I suspect had to do with low chrono readings in the 900fps range instead of the advertised 11-1200fps.
The Gold Dots early on have shown some erratic velocities too, from a Taurus 85 (ported), but generally they are pretty close or even above the adv velocity and I have more faith in heavier bullet weight, when all else fails.

BOGE
08-26-2010, 23:46
Let`s look at some facts:

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2007/30May07.html

Berto
08-27-2010, 04:40
:dunno:

.38sp?

novaDAK
08-27-2010, 08:33
Would the DPX penetrate a soft body armor vest?

LJ

--No.

TheGrimReaper
08-27-2010, 09:23
I myself would go with the Speer GoldDots.

degoodman
08-27-2010, 10:43
Let`s look at some facts:

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2007/30May07.html

Utter BS.

Once the statement was made that "No conventional hollow-point ammunition was able to penetrate the car door. Some didn't even make it through the first layer. None made it through the second layer." Absolutely nothing in that article can be viewed as truth. Period.

BOGE
08-27-2010, 20:09
Utter BS.

Once the statement was made that "No conventional hollow-point ammunition was able to penetrate the car door. Some didn't even make it through the first layer. None made it through the second layer." Absolutely nothing in that article can be viewed as truth. Period.

And your proof? Have you shot a car door?

carbofan21
08-27-2010, 20:16
the 135 grain +p gold dot is used extensively in law enforcement. it is street proven, and can be had for about $0.50 per round. any police police departments using corbon dpx or buffalo bore? i don't know of any. they cost about 3X as much as the speer load, so the choice is easy for me.

DEADEYEGUY
08-28-2010, 13:31
The Speer bullet probably has alot more real world feedback due to the fact it is used by NYPD. Although the DPX is generally known to be a good round in whatever caliber. I wouldn't feel bad about carrying either one in my frame. I haven't shot the DPX in my 642. I carry the 135gr. Gold Dot in it. Thank God I haven't had to shoot anyone with it. But it's pretty stout in my 642. But it is a +p round. It is also very, very accurate in my j frame. I usually carry it or when I can't find it the old 158gr. +P LSWCHP. It has a proven track record. Recently I got some of the 110gr. non +P rounds to try.
A couple of guy brought some of the Critical Defense rounds from .380 to .45 to the range. They shot them though everything from water to sand with four layers of denim in front of them. Plus soaked phone books. Every single caliber went through the four layers of denim and whatever they hit they expanded. No they did not penetrate or expand like the Winchester 9mm 127gr. +P+ round I usually carry. But they are not made to. They seemed to go pretty deep though and got good expansion. The .38 non +p's expanded around .50 caliber and I don't think on a clothed felon on a frontal shot they would have any problems reaching pretty deeply into the heart. Which is exactly what they were made for. Not going throungh car doors. How many civilians will be shooting through car doors anyways?
Also every round fired everytime. I've read some reports of earlier rounds not always lighting up. Everyone I fired and they fired went off. The round is stout compared to WWB 130gr. fmj. but not nearly like a +p load. I think it's a good compromise in the really light guns.

DEADEYEGUY
08-28-2010, 13:36
Just want to throw this out there although it's not directly related to the discussion. I still for the life of me don't understand someone recommending a short barreled j frame for a beginner. Short sight radius, vestigial sights at that, short grip (if you go to the big rubber grips why carry it since it prints), long DAO pull for real life use, with effective loads lots of blast ane recoil, and 5 rounds. Someone said it. "A j frame is an experts gun, not a beginner".

Berto
08-29-2010, 13:28
I have shot the Critical Defense load in the +P version through a few guns, the 4" model 64, a Model 49 bodyguard and a Colt Officers .38.
It shoots considerably low from the snubby, like 3-4" at 10yrs.
At 50ft, I have to hold top of the 8.5x 13" paper or it's at the very bottom...granted, longish range for a snubby.
In the 4 and 6" barrels, it's not as objectionable, about 3" low at 25yrds.
It appears a fair load, but I still don't care for lightweight bullets in .38sp. It does (even in +p) has a little less recoil though, and they do expand it appears.

DEADEYEGUY
08-30-2010, 21:08
Yes they are a bit light for a .38 round. Most .38's are still set up for 158gr. rounds. But I was working 7 yards and closer. That's where this gun would likely be used. And if I were to want more range with them I can always use "Kentucky Windage". It really wasn't that far off in my 642.

Deputydave
08-30-2010, 21:31
And your proof? Have you shot a car door?

We have.

Gold dots will penetrate a car door. The smaller, faster calibers such as 9mm and .357 Sig do so better than the larger i.e. .45 ACP, but both can and have gone through car doors, truck beds, hoods, auto glass and windshields. There are videos on youtube that demonstrate this as well.

Just tossing this out there. I can't pull the article in question up for some reason so I can't comment on any further content.

I will say that 'always' is a pretty bold statement though. No offense. I've seen Cor-bon fail in some tests if the clothing is thick enough. Not often, but I've seen it. Just my two cents.

As far as my personal choice of the two, the GDSB. It has a pretty extensive track record in the various loadings. We've used it in 9mm and now .45 ACP. Not saying the other wouldn't work, just that in LEO circles the GD is generally a 'go-to' round.

BOGE
08-30-2010, 23:23
...I've seen Cor-bon fail in some tests if the clothing is thick enough...

Corbon normal ammo or Corbon DPX? I`ve never seen nor heard of DPX failing.

I`ll agree that the .357 SIG is the best penetrating handgun cartridge for LEO.

Deputydave
08-31-2010, 09:00
I`ve never seen nor heard of DPX failing.


How many formal testings or actual shootings have you seen with DPX? I'm not talking about the backyard youtube testings, but actual structured testing with calibrated gel.

As a large agency, and as a former firearms instructor we put ammo through rigorous testing. No offense to you, and not trying to bust your chops, but any HP can and will fail. Some more than others. I'm not saying DPX is a bad round, only that GD's are trusted and used more for a variety of reasons.

Berto
08-31-2010, 13:03
Some of the early std pressure DPX loads were susceptible to instability and tumbled from some snubnose revolvers, not so much an issue with the production stuff now, which is +P, but chrono data still comes in way low from what I've seen and there are some reports of tumbling again, so no expansion.
I can only guess it has to do with the combination of the longer copper bullet, short barrel and inconsistent velocities.