357 sig / .40 is one any better? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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1canvas
08-27-2010, 13:17
when comparing the two is one really much better than the other? i know there are many loadings so i would look at two Gold Dot loads as posted by the company. the 165grn at 1150 compared to the 357sig LE at 1375. i put in the .40 165grn load cause its penetration might be more comparable with its sectional density.

KAK
08-27-2010, 14:19
40 is probably better for close quarters last ditch defense.

357 would probably be better for barrier penetration.


Think of scenarios you could see yourself in and pick your favorite.

fredj338
08-27-2010, 14:43
I would say diff, not really better. As far as SD, the 40/155gr load is a closer equiv & field perf seems to support that (if you believe M&S data). I find the recoil of the 357sig shows less "torque" than the hot 40s.

tx787
08-27-2010, 15:53
357 Sig is better assuming you don't have issues with ammo availability in that caliber.

atl-g33
08-27-2010, 17:32
just got back from shooting my p226 in both calibers. I prefer the .357 sig. I like the lighter bullet / more speed combo personally. Recoil is a little less as well. Plenty of other threads on the .357 sig describing its ballistics.

fredj338
08-27-2010, 18:11
357 Sig is better assuming you don't have issues with ammo availability in that caliber.

Really, I don't see how. The 125gr/357sig @ 1350fps is almost identical to 155gr/40 @ 1250fps. I doubt you could look at a body or gel impact & tell the diff. The SD are the same, so same bullet designs, sim performance. The 125gr is a bit faster but the 40 hits w/ a bit larger frontal impact.:dunno: I prefer the 357sig because the recoil impulse has less torwue, makes followup shots just a bit quicker in identical guns.

FearTheBoomAndBust
08-30-2010, 18:16
when comparing the two is one really much better than the other? i know there are many loadings so i would look at two Gold Dot loads as posted by the company. the 165grn at 1150 compared to the 357sig LE at 1375. i put in the .40 165grn load cause its penetration might be more comparable with its sectional density.

I personally trust .357SIG slightly better stopping power wise (I use it as my off-duty bad area gun), but .40 is also a good round and is slightly easier when searching for ammo.

Either way you are making a good choice.

M&P Shooter
08-30-2010, 18:22
The .40cal is a good compromise for those who like the 45acp but want higher capacity. The .40cal makes a nice wound cavity with 165gr loads like HST, Rem GS, Speer GD, Winchester Elite Supreme, ect

The .357 sig is great for punching through hard barriers like auto glass, doors, walls but so is a 180gr .40cal bonded bullet. Both rounds are awesome service calibers and most weapons like Glock/Sig/XD/M&P you can get a after market barrel and fire both with the same mags since a 357sig is basically a .40 case necked down with a .355 head mounted on it:wavey:

_The_Shadow
08-30-2010, 18:24
357 sig / .40 is one any better?


One probably not too much better than the other, but I happen to like the 10mm and the 9x25Dillon...

thegriz18
08-30-2010, 19:18
I think I might pick up a 357 barrel for my G23. The mags are the same, correct?

FearTheBoomAndBust
08-30-2010, 19:23
I think I might pick up a 357 barrel for my G23. The mags are the same, correct?

correct, the mags are more or less the same, a G23 mag will work perfectly fine.

blackbmw
08-30-2010, 20:22
First off, My rounds move out at 1500fps or more, Im using .357 sig 125gr buffalo bore GD. I chronoed these at 1565 fps out of my G31, thats a little difference from a 1250fps 155gr load. I want fast and semi light, emulate a rifle round type of speed, cause a 30-06 is much more deadly that a 30 carbine, yet same size round.

New York Hunter
08-31-2010, 00:46
I don't think one's better then the other. They're both great rounds. I have a G22 and bought a G31 barrel for it. I have a lot of time using the 357 Sig., but a lot more with the 40 S&W.

To me the 357 Sig. has more recoil and muzzle flip. However, it does both A LOT quicker then the 40 S&W. And to me, the faster slide speed, especially the slide speed going forward returning it to battery, helps drop the front of the pistol back down on target quicker allowing for faster follow up shots.

The 40 S&W recoils and muzzle flips a little less then the 357Sig., but does both slower. The muzzle flip on the 40 S&W is more torquey the the 357 Sig. and has a slower slide speed so it doesn't seem to aid in dropping the front site back on target as fast as the 357 Sig.

I can shoot both very well. The 357 Sig. in my set up is a little more accurate. I was surprised how accurate it is. I was buying 50 round boxes of 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot's for $15 a box. That price has long been gone. I have one box left.

I haven't used the 357 Sig. barrel in about two years. It's hard to find cheap practice ammo locally for it. This is the time of year I start getting back into shooting so I'll be buying ammo online so I'll more then likely buy some Sig ammo.

jimeradams
08-31-2010, 00:52
One of my buddies has a Sig 229 .40 that he bought a .357 Sig barrel for. I've shot his 229 with both types of ammo and don't think you go wrong with either caliber, with proper ammo selection. I do think that with the .357 Sig barrel in, his 229 becomes a "plugs and muffs" gun! It's that loud, coming out of that short 3.9" barrel.

1canvas
08-31-2010, 05:46
First off, My rounds move out at 1500fps or more, Im using .357 sig 125gr buffalo bore GD. I chronoed these at 1565 fps out of my G31, thats a little difference from a 1250fps 155gr load. I want fast and semi light, emulate a rifle round type of speed, cause a 30-06 is much more deadly that a 30 carbine, yet same size round.

after checking BB balistics from their website i could not find these speeds for the 357sig.

GunFighter45ACP
08-31-2010, 09:32
I shoot better groupings w/.357sig than I do w/.40sw & my times back on target are also better, too, so all things being equal, .357sig is a better choice for me.

If I factor in cost & availability of ammo though, I find that .40sw is a better choice for me.

YMMV

atl-g33
08-31-2010, 11:35
One of my buddies has a Sig 229 .40 that he bought a .357 Sig barrel for. I've shot his 229 with both types of ammo and don't think you go wrong with either caliber, with proper ammo selection. I do think that with the .357 Sig barrel in, his 229 becomes a "plugs and muffs" gun! It's that loud, coming out of that short 3.9" barrel.

You should hear it coming out of a g33, talk about plugs and muffs required.

2afreedom
08-31-2010, 12:39
I don't know which is "better" but the .40 wins for me because of ammo price and availability. I would feel well-armed with either caliber.

AWESOMO 4000
09-01-2010, 18:16
My buddy has shot maybe one before in his life with me about 10 years ago. He called the other day, wanted to try shooting again, thinking about getting a gun - his wife WANTS him to. Lucky guy...

Anyway, I let him shoot my P229 in .357SIG and my M92FS Beretta. He liked the SIG better, had no objections to the sound or "recoil".

I set a pop can out at 50 yards and nailed it on my first shot. Stood it back up, let him take a crack at it. Hit on the 2nd shot.

3.86" barrel with both a first timer and me who has been shooting for 25 years is dead on accurate a 50 yards with a service pistol and FMJ ammo. The .357 SIG is inherently accurate, has a proven record, and comes in one flavor: 125gr. I am a proponent of using a round that was designed for originally, and guns typically work best in that caliber.

You can find 147gr in .357SIG but it is rare - because it isn't all that great.

Never been a big .40 fan. I traded off my P226 in .40 the first year they were available. Sold it after 8 months, bought my Beretta a few months later. Not a real fan of the cartridge. If you want a bigger bullet, I'd just get a .45 ACP and have it over with. Otherwise, 9mm and .357SIG are probably good enough.

BOGE
09-01-2010, 18:57
First off, My rounds move out at 1500fps or more, Im using .357 sig 125gr buffalo bore GD. I chronoed these at 1565 fps out of my G31...


1565!!!??? :shocked: Not THAT is impressive!!

MannyA
09-01-2010, 19:33
when comparing the two is one really much better than the other? i know there are many loadings so i would look at two Gold Dot loads as posted by the company. the 165grn at 1150 compared to the 357sig LE at 1375. i put in the .40 165grn load cause its penetration might be more comparable with its sectional density.

This is what happens when your finished reading the internet!
A 9mm Vs ... discussion on one thread with 245 replies and counting and now a .357 Sig Vs 40 S&W:rofl::wow::faint:

gatorboy
09-03-2010, 16:39
I would say diff, not really better. As far as SD, the 40/155gr load is a closer equiv & field perf seems to support that (if you believe M&S data). I find the recoil of the 357sig shows less "torque" than the hot 40s.

I've thought about the difference in feel between similar loads such as the 155 .40 and 125 357 auto. In Glocks at least the twist rate is approximately 1:10 for .40, 10mm, 9mm and .380. They use 1:16 for 357 auto, .45 ACP and GAP. That would make a difference in "torque" to advanced shooters.

Most aftermarket MFG.'s use the same for all calibers. Pressure and velocity don't seem to have anything to do with it. If "torque" is what a shooter does'nt like about a specific caliber or gun an aftermarket barrel with a slower twist rate may be the answer.

PghJim
09-04-2010, 23:36
I have reached over 1,500fps with BB 125 gr bullets out of a 4.5" barrel. I did a test with the same gun, a G32 with 4" Glock barrels. One a 40 and one a 357 sig. Using an NRA scoring bullseye target at 10 yards and shot timer, I fired 10 shots of hot 357 sig ammo, and both 155 and 165gr HST 40 S&W. Now a compitition shooter could do better, but if I fired the 40 S&W as fast as I fired the 357 sig, the score on the target was more than twice as much, and the 40 had the advantage of larger diameter for scoring rings. In fact a couple of the 40's were out of the scoring rings. In order to shoot the 40 as accurately as I did the 357 sig, my time was almost 50% longer. I carry a G32 with a 4.5" barrel and 357 sig BB Gold Dot traveling at 1,500+fps. I do not even know how one could compare the two and say it is a wash.

SDGlock23
09-06-2010, 07:52
I do not even know how one could compare the two and say it is a wash.

The only real issue here is that you use a hot .357 Sig and "compare" it to regular .40. One can cherry pick all day long, but in the end, the .40 will out muscle the 357 Sig as it can shoot similar weight bullets faster and can also shoot heavier bullets. I think they compliment one another, if you want light and fast and still want decent penetration, drop in a 357 Sig barrel. Otherwise, the .40 is a fantastic self defense cartridge capable of some very impressive "numbers" as well.

trlcavscout
09-06-2010, 09:17
357 sig hands down. I have owned 3 G23's and 3 G22's, 2 G32's and 1 G31. The 40 is a good round and I will take it over a 9 for work or carry anyday, but the 357 SIG does outperform the 40 in the real world. Numbers and paper may not show the benefits, and alot of people dont like the 357, so to each his own they will both do a good job. Like has been said to me the 357 has less flip and is faster on target, more accurate generally speaking with different loads. And if you reload its almost as cheap as 9mm. You can get the 40 barrel, and a 9mm conversion barrel and have 3 guns in one!

PghJim
09-06-2010, 12:00
The only real issue here is that you use a hot .357 Sig and "compare" it to regular .40. One can cherry pick all day long, but in the end, the .40 will out muscle the 357 Sig as it can shoot similar weight bullets faster and can also shoot heavier bullets. I think they compliment one another, if you want light and fast and still want decent penetration, drop in a 357 Sig barrel. Otherwise, the .40 is a fantastic self defense cartridge capable of some very impressive "numbers" as well.

I do not disagree with you in finding a regular 357 sig ammo is difficult. It has been watered down a bit. I spoke to Speer ammo and asked why they only load their LE GD to 1,375 fps when I knew they could go over 1,430 easily, it is in their own loading manual. He said they load it at the lowest velocity that they think will be effective, and a 135gr Corbon 40 does come close to the 357 sig.

However, my point was more to the shootability. The 40 torques in your hand forcing you to find the target and sights after the shot. The 357 sig recoils back and a little up and by the time I reset the trigger, I am back on target. I also think the wish for penatration is a LE issue. I just bought DT 357 Sig with 125 gr Sierra's 125gr JHP. 1,475FPS out of my 4.5" barrel. I will not penatrate that far, but I believe will make a good SD round.

I think the 40 is a good round, but I shoot the 357 better and for me that is very important.

PghJim
09-06-2010, 12:36
Another interesting point is that someone posted a link to a podcast where firearms experts were discussing the 357 Sig. It came out none of them believed it would have the same effect as the 125 gr 357 Magnum and actully criticized it in their articles. But after the shooting results started coming in, they admitted that although the 357 sig acts differently than the 357 magnum, it was the most effective round they have see in a 9mm platform gun and all of them now carry 357 sigs in Glocks or Sigs loaded with Speer GD's.

An interesting story one of them told about a cotton mouth snake infestation. With the snake in the water, they would have to hit the snake with a 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP to have an adverse effect. However, if they hit within 4" in front of the snake with the 357 sig, it blew the snake out of the water and either stunned or killed it. I do not know what round they were using in the other calibers. The link is on some 357 sig tread that I believe is still avaliable.

fredj338
09-06-2010, 15:26
Another interesting point is that someone posted a link to a podcast where firearms experts were discussing the 357 Sig. It came out none of them believed it would have the same effect as the 125 gr 357 Magnum and actully criticized it in their articles. But after the shooting results started coming in, they admitted that although the 357 sig acts differently than the 357 magnum, it was the most effective round they have see in a 9mm platform gun and all of them now carry 357 sigs in Glocks or Sigs loaded with Speer GD's.

An interesting story one of them told about a cotton mouth snake infestation. With the snake in the water, they would have to hit the snake with a 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP to have an adverse effect. However, if they hit within 4" in front of the snake with the 357 sig, it blew the snake out of the water and either stunned or killed it. I do not know what round they were using in the other calibers. The link is on some 357 sig tread that I believe is still avaliable.
Seriously, what makes a "firearms expert"? How one can think there is much diff between a 125grJHP @ 1400fps+ or one @ 1375fps+, isn't much of an expert IMHO.:dunno:

fredj338
09-06-2010, 15:33
The only real issue here is that you use a hot .357 Sig and "compare" it to regular .40. One can cherry pick all day long, but in the end, the .40 will out muscle the 357 Sig as it can shoot similar weight bullets faster and can also shoot heavier bullets. I think they compliment one another, if you want light and fast and still want decent penetration, drop in a 357 Sig barrel. Otherwise, the .40 is a fantastic self defense cartridge capable of some very impressive "numbers" as well.
Keep in mind, w/ sim designed bullets, the 125gr/357 is equiv to the 155gr/40 in SD. You have to drop to a very fast 135gr/40 to get even close to the vel of the 357sig. You will be giving up significant penetration w/ the lighter 40.

Free Radical
09-06-2010, 15:36
357 Sig is better assuming you don't have issues with ammo availability in that caliber.

Here we go again.
I have never had trouble locating .357 SIG ammo. In fact, during the recent ammo shortage it was about the only caliber that I could find at many outlets.

1canvas
09-06-2010, 17:01
the only place i can get it around here is online, no one around here carries it.

Haymarket
09-06-2010, 19:51
Here we go again.
I have never had trouble locating .357 SIG ammo. In fact, during the recent ammo shortage it was about the only caliber that I could find at many outlets.

I wish that were true around here. The one gun shop around here that has it wants $36 per box for FMJ, and they don't have any SD ammo. None of the big box stores have any at all...it is my favorite round, but it is getting killed with the availability issue. At one point it was around the same or cheaper than .40.....now it is over 2.5x the price...

PghJim
09-06-2010, 22:21
Seriously, what makes a "firearms expert"? How one can think there is much diff between a 125grJHP @ 1400fps+ or one @ 1375fps+, isn't much of an expert IMHO.:dunno:

Too late tonight, but tomorrow I will post pictures of a factory 357 GD at 1372, a BB GD at 1,454 and a BB GD at 1,501 into clothed water jugs. I know it is not jello, but what I want to show you is the difference 50 fps can make.

By the way I do not know who the people were, they were just refered to firearm experts and some write articles for magazines and were in LE. They could be munchkins for all I know, I was just passing it along.

fredj338
09-06-2010, 22:38
Too late tonight, but tomorrow I will post pictures of a factory 357 GD at 1372, a BB GD at 1,454 and a BB GD at 1,501 into clothed water jugs. I know it is not jello, but what I want to show you is the difference 50 fps can make.

By the way I do not know who the people were, they were just refered to firearm experts and some write articles for magazines and were in LE. They could be munchkins for all I know, I was just passing it along.
Oh, I know that 50fps can make a diff. Bullets are designed around specific vel windows. Obviuosly, adding vel to a FMJ means little. The whole energy thing, you know.
My point, many so-called "Experts" just are not. Being an ex LEO or soldier or a guy that gets a gig writning in a gun rag doesn't make him an expert. It;s what they know. I've heard a lot of stupid stuff from "experts".:faint:

PghJim
09-06-2010, 23:01
Oh, I know that 50fps can make a diff. Bullets are designed around specific vel windows. Obviuosly, adding vel to a FMJ means little. The whole energy thing, you know.
My point, many so-called "Experts" just are not. Being an ex LEO or soldier or a guy that gets a gig writning in a gun rag doesn't make him an expert. It;s what they know. I've heard a lot of stupid stuff from "experts".:faint:

Fred discount it if you wish, like I said, I was just passing it along. Since it was a diverse group of competitive shooters, LE, hunters and others, it was interesting. What was more interesting is that they all agreed. They did list the agencies and what they called major police departments that are now using the 357 sig, and if you belive them, it was large. They said in LE now, or maybe just state patrols, the 357 sig is the second most used caliber behind the 40 S&W. But I do not disagree that you hear stupid stuff from "experts". This was a discussion panel.

Aeroscoper
09-08-2010, 20:58
I've owned a G27, and now own a G33 and G31. I had a tougher time getting my G27 back on target quickly than I do with my G33. I find my G31 to be very tame since I have so much trigger time on the G33.

To me the 357 Sig has a slight advantage, I'd feel comfortable with either but I've carried and shot the 357 for over 10 years now and have never faced any of the drawbacks this "wildcat" cartridge was supposed to reflect. YMMV.

Glolt20-91
09-09-2010, 23:57
From Mike McNett's gel data post a few years back;

DoubleTap 9mm+P
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"

DoubleTap .357 Sig
125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1450fps - 14.5" / .66"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1250fps - 14.75" / .73"

DoubleTap 9X25
125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1725fps - 15.0" / .74"
147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 17.5" / .68"

There's a 275fps velocity difference between the .357SIG & 9x25 Dillon, 125gr GD, yet only a 1/2" difference in penetration according to DT.

This 147gr Gold Dot blew up at 1155fps;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/9mm147GD1155fps002.jpg

DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"
200gr XTP @ 1050fps - 17.75" / .59"

DoubleTap .45ACP
200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.25" / .88"
230gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1010fps - 15.25" / .95"

DoubleTap .357 Magnum
158gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 19.0" .56"


Bob :cowboy:

Mrs_Esterhouse
10-03-2010, 15:55
Sheets O' Truth (http://intrencik.com/357sig.htm) :whistling:

I've never been attacked by gel, but steel sheets can strike at any time.

shotgunred
10-03-2010, 20:34
I will remember that next time i get attacked by scrap steel. :tongueout:


A smaller bullet with less sectional density will always penetrate steel better. But humans are not made out of scrap steel.:rofl:

cowboy1964
10-03-2010, 21:07
The 40 is a good round and I will take it over a 9 for work or carry anyday, but the 357 SIG does outperform the 40 in the real world.

Let's see some evidence! Evidence is good.

cowboy1964
10-03-2010, 21:16
They said in LE now, or maybe just state patrols, the 357 sig is the second most used caliber behind the 40 S&W.

By my count among state police these are the current figures (I'm missing 2 states or so. And Hawaii doesn't have state police. The closest thing they do have uses 9mm)

.40: 27
.45ACP/GAP: 10
.357 Sig: 8
9mm: 2 + Hawaii

Yes I consider ACP/GAP to be the same for purposes of this discussion.

.40 still dominates.

NonPCnraRN
10-04-2010, 09:40
If you want a heavy bullet ( 180-200 gr) from the same sized platform as the 357 Sig, then the 40 S&W is the choice. If you want the highest velocity and flattest trajectory, then the 357 Sig is the choice. Where the 2 cartridges overlap in bullet weight and velocity, the choice becomes more difficult. Either choice would be appropriate as I don't think there is that much difference between the performance of the two where the two overlap in weight and velocity. I would predict that the 357 Sig would penetrate better and the 40 S&W would expand to a larger size if both bullets have optimum performance. If one were to use either for SD or as a trail gun, I am not sure which has the most muzzle blast and cause the most damage to unprotected ears. Most people use eye and ear protection at the range but for SD on the trail or street one seldom has time to put in ear plugs.

Foxtrotx1
10-04-2010, 10:01
Really, I don't see how. The 125gr/357sig @ 1350fps is almost identical to 155gr/40 @ 1250fps. I doubt you could look at a body or gel impact & tell the diff. The SD are the same, so same bullet designs, sim performance. The 125gr is a bit faster but the 40 hits w/ a bit larger frontal impact.:dunno: I prefer the 357sig because the recoil impulse has less torwue, makes followup shots just a bit quicker in identical guns.

A 357 sig 125 grain going 1350 is rather slow. Double tap loads are much faster.

cowboy1964
10-04-2010, 14:02
If I were shooting .357 Sig I would definitely be reloading that. Buy a 500 round Canned Heat pack from Georgia Arms for $155 (which isn't a bad price for loaded ammo anyway) and you are good to go for awhile.

The prices for 50 round boxes at the usual sites are ridiculous, if they even have any. They are usually $22 and up.

silvrevo
10-04-2010, 14:13
Our local gun range has 357sig for $16.49 per 50 rounds.. and If your a member , you get 10% off... $14.81

A main factor Im looking into a G33,,,,, @ $440 from Buds online.

: )

Daryl in Az
10-04-2010, 15:10
By my count among state police these are the current figures (I'm missing 2 states or so. And Hawaii doesn't have state police. The closest thing they do have uses 9mm)

.40: 27
.45ACP/GAP: 10
.357 Sig: 8
9mm: 2 + Hawaii

Yes I consider ACP/GAP to be the same for purposes of this discussion.

.40 still dominates.

A pretty large majority of federal officers carry .40 S&W as well.

In my mind, the differences in performance for self-defense are so minor that they aren't worth arguing. People have their preferences, and usually go with them.

I've not read all of this thread, but I haven't seen one major reason mentioned that contributes heavily to why I prefer the .40 S&W. It's a straight walled case, rather than a bottlenecked case, so reloading the .40 is easier.

I like using carbide dies for reloading handgun cartridges. It makes case lube unnecessary, but carbide dies only work with straight walled cases.

Seriously, choosing between the two is a simple matter of preference.

Daryl

brausso
10-04-2010, 15:13
I find this to be pretty good general info. This focuses on the 357 sig, but also shows info on other calibers.

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/one.shot.stops.htm

Daryl in Az
10-05-2010, 05:08
I find this to be pretty good general info. This focuses on the 357 sig, but also shows info on other calibers.

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/one.shot.stops.htm

I agree that it's good general info, but the writer includes a lot of personal bias in his writing.

He states that the .357 sig shows many characteristics claimed by the "disappointing" .40 S&W, while his own chart shows the .40 S&W to slightly out-perform the .357 sig in one shot stops, average penetration, and recovered bullet diameter.

And in fact, he may be right, but if he doesn't include the failings of the .40 that are so plainly available in the Sig cartridge, then he loses credibility for me.

Again, it's good info, but one has to sort the facts from personal opinion. I've outlined one, but there are many examples.

Daryl

kamonjj
10-07-2010, 21:46
I don't have scientific data to support my preferences however, I do prefer the 357 sig. I own a 33 with the .40 and 9 conversions. I have shot all 3 calibers doing the same exact drills in the same order. I am definitely the most accurate with the 357 sig. I have the faster follow up shots with the 357 sig. than the .40. I have had less failure to feeds with the 357 sig over the .40.

With all that being said, I may wanna switch to either the .40 or 9 due to ammo availability and price. Since in the real world, those do matter. I also wanted to pick up a ruger lcp for pocket carry if I needed to do so but, 380 is just as hard/expensive to find at 357 sig. So I'm back in the same boat. I wish we could get past this ammo shortage and have cheap easily accessible ammo of every caliber everywhere :)

PghJim
10-08-2010, 14:34
I don't have scientific data to support my preferences however, I do prefer the 357 sig. I own a 33 with the .40 and 9 conversions. I have shot all 3 calibers doing the same exact drills in the same order. I am definitely the most accurate with the 357 sig. I have the faster follow up shots with the 357 sig. than the .40. I have had less failure to feeds with the 357 sig over the .40.


This is what I found shooting a G32 and using a G23 barrel. Although I did not have feed problems with either. Hot 357 sig loads were easier to shoot and return to taget faster. I did not try this with 180gr 40, but did with 135gr, 155 gr and 165 gr. All three torqued the gun when I fired. I am not saying I could not do well with a 40, but if the hot 357 sig is as effective a SD round as the 40, I will go with the 357, and I do.

PghJim
10-08-2010, 14:43
By my count among state police these are the current figures (I'm missing 2 states or so. And Hawaii doesn't have state police. The closest thing they do have uses 9mm)

.40: 27
.45ACP/GAP: 10
.357 Sig: 8
9mm: 2 + Hawaii

Yes I consider ACP/GAP to be the same for purposes of this discussion.

.40 still dominates.

No one said the 40 was not the most used, but I am just passing on information from an American Handguner magazine. I could not find the issue, but they did not count Hawaii, and as I recall there were five more states using the 357 sig than the 45 GAP or otherwise. Hey they could be wrong.

PersonOfInterest
10-08-2010, 20:10
From what ive seen culling alot of decent sized animals on farms my choice between the 2 would go to the 357sig (id take it over either of the .40 or .45) just due to the simple fact ive seen more blood loss, more interal damage and quicker incapacitation times from it, not uncommon for me not that long ago to take out 30 wild goats in a day and cut open 3 or 4 to see the damage or take legs for meat - constant thing id see was bigger damage done by the Sig or +P+ 9mm's.
No real science there for me just the facts of what i was doing at the time, however theres other considerations - i wouldnt be bothered having to use a .40 at all just being honest about what id see, might be the case you can get cheaper more available source of .40 practise ammo - in that case sure use it instead - things like that would sway my decision some what - just a thought.

cowboy1964
10-08-2010, 23:02
constant thing id see was bigger damage done by the Sig or +P+ 9mm's.

Ayoob's fave 9mm ammo is the Ranger +P+, says it creates massive tissue damage. .357 Sig is another 100-150 fps more than that.

I'm looking to get a .40 so I can also try .357 Sig finally. Who knows I may like it.

PersonOfInterest
10-09-2010, 00:49
Ayoob's fave 9mm ammo is the Ranger +P+, says it creates massive tissue damage. .357 Sig is another 100-150 fps more than that.

I'm looking to get a .40 so I can also try .357 Sig finally. Who knows I may like it.
Yep thats a great load in the 9mm my handload is hotter and works well and i have noticed the 357sig does definately give a slight edge, having either the sig or .40 gives you the option of switching out like that so its a great buy i think youll like the sig alot - rarely meet someone who dosent.
Reloading can be tricky at first but youll learn eventually - took me a while.

PghJim
10-09-2010, 01:34
From what ive seen culling alot of decent sized animals on farms my choice between the 2 would go to the 357sig (id take it over either of the .40 or .45) just due to the simple fact ive seen more blood loss, more interal damage and quicker incapacitation times...

What 357 sig load do you normally use?

PersonOfInterest
10-09-2010, 05:22
What 357 sig load do you normally use?
ive used 3 so far
factory loads from hornady using the 124gn XTP at 1350fps worked very well pretty much all 1 shot stops
handloaded the 125gn GoldDot to 1380fps which has done the bulk of shooting plus a few 125gn handloaded Sierra JHP's - all worked well only once i saw a through and through shot where a gold dot failed to expand.

cowboy1964
10-09-2010, 09:54
Reloading can be tricky at first but youll learn eventually - took me a while.

I'm about ready to jump into reloading, probably with a Lee Classic Turret. Are you referring to issues with reloading .357 Sig specifically or just reloading in general? I'm planning on ordering 500 rounds from Georgia Arms to build up a supply of brass.

Glolt20-91
10-09-2010, 11:58
ive used 3 so far
factory loads from hornady using the 124gn XTP at 1350fps worked very well pretty much all 1 shot stops
handloaded the 125gn GoldDot to 1380fps which has done the bulk of shooting plus a few 125gn handloaded Sierra JHP's - all worked well only once i saw a through and through shot where a gold dot failed to expand.

Are you seeing any kind kind of barrel throat erosion from those factory 125gr XTPs? I'm still amazed you were able to get that bullet in factory .357SIG.

Would you feel comfortable handloading the 125gr XTP/.357SIG into the 1400s?

FWIW, I have some 200gr XTPs that will be loaded and tested in .40; target MV ~1050fps, right at Hornady's factory 10mm MV.

Bob :cowboy:

Glolt20-91
10-09-2010, 12:03
I'm about ready to jump into reloading, probably with a Lee Classic Turret. Are you referring to issues with reloading .357 Sig specifically or just reloading in general? I'm planning on ordering 500 rounds from Georgia Arms to build up a supply of brass.

Handloading is fun to do, stay safe in your procedures. The hardbound reloading manuals I use the most are from Vihtavuori, Speer, Hornady and Sierra.

I began handloading in the mid 60s and still enjoy putting it all together and shooting it afterwards.

Bob :cowboy:

cowboy1964
10-09-2010, 13:42
I got the Lyman 49th and Modern Reloading. I understand now why people have multiple books, each one can't cover all possible bullet types, weights, and powders.

PersonOfInterest
10-09-2010, 22:01
I'm about ready to jump into reloading, probably with a Lee Classic Turret. Are you referring to issues with reloading .357 Sig specifically or just reloading in general? I'm planning on ordering 500 rounds from Georgia Arms to build up a supply of brass.
Well i just found alot of problems with the 357sig in general - however they were due to one thing which was the projectile i was using, see i shoot IPSC and for that shooting steel i need lead bullets (molycoats) and finding the right one was the problem see most of them have been cast in moulds originally desgined for bare lead hence they have a lube groove - now when you try and seat those you dont get very crimp on the projectile and it becomes loose - once the round goes into the chamber the firing pin hits and the whole case moves forward without setting it off - big headache for ages i was trying to work out if i was resizing wrong etc etc turns out it was the projectiles all along now i have a good supply of good molycoats without the lobe groove and they run 100%.

Now to a reloader thats all pretty simple - to someone new to i the process its alot to comprehend but it is problem you can face with the 357sig that you wouldnt face with the straight walled cases - so my advice is start with say the .38spl or 9mm for reloading and then after you work out what your doing then maybe look at the 357sig - just some advice - you dont wanna learn by starting with the 357sig.
But reloading is really worth doing, shooting recreationally to me would be boring without reloading.

PersonOfInterest
10-09-2010, 22:12
Are you seeing any kind kind of barrel throat erosion from those factory 125gr XTPs? I'm still amazed you were able to get that bullet in factory .357SIG.

Would you feel comfortable handloading the 125gr XTP/.357SIG into the 1400s?

FWIW, I have some 200gr XTPs that will be loaded and tested in .40; target MV ~1050fps, right at Hornady's factory 10mm MV.

Bob :cowboy:
You know to be honest i still havent pulled one and used the calliper to find out if it truly is 125gn .357 cal - but i will and get back to you.
But comparing the profile and cannelure im 90% certain they are, hornady may have made a one off batch just to load in the 357sig at .355 based on the 357cal design which would suit some guns better than the long pointy 124gn XTP in .355 - just a thought ill know when i pull one.

Ive never handloaded the 125gn .357 in the sig been told to avoid it so im just not sure, am not seeing any barrel probs, ive only ever shot off 80 of them 30 of those have been out on properties aswell as goats i took a couple of roos with them too. The rest where shot off to see accuracy and chronographing and testing for reliability which were all good.

Will be interesting to see what the .40 can do with those, i used to load a 200gn molycoat in the .40 in a glock 22 i had years ago, from memory they were running at 850fps - nice load recoil reminded me of a .45 so it was great for comps.