Sarge's Fusion CCO - From order to receipt with PICS! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Sarge43
08-27-2010, 23:38
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{mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Okay folks, here we go! This is my non shooting review of the new Fusion CCO that I just picked up from my FFL this week. Next weekend this CCO, my Dan Wesson CCO, and my Wilson BWC CQB will be heading off to a third party for not only a shooting review, but also a tear down side by side comparison to each other. Therefore, this is only a quick visual and ďfeelĒ review of the pistol. The results of the three pistol shootout will be made available once theyíre typed up and ready to go.
Iím going to preface this review by saying that I will strive to make this an objective review of both the pistol and the build. Iím not here to kiss anyones butt, or to kick it either. The facts are the facts, and where my opinion is given, it should be fairly obvious. If you happen to have an opinion different than my stated opinion, thatís your right, but please donít turn this into either a cheerleading session or a drama fest of hate.
Background Ė This is my second Fusion. My first is a bobtail commander that is shown in the first pics with the new CCO. The first build went very smoothly from start to finish. The wait was longer than initially told, but I am the type that will patiently wait for something to be right and prefer that over hurried and NOT right. The first Fusion has performed without a hiccup since it came out of the case and despite a lot of range time and handling by everyone there, it appears as new. The Ion Bond finish has lived up to itís hype in my opinion. Communication with Bob through the first build was pleasant. I tried to just leave him alone and let him build though. The whole transaction from start to finish was smooth like glass. My first Fusion was built in early 2009.
I ordered the new CCO on August 5, 2009. My first experience with Fusion was so positive that I didnít hesitate to go to them again for another pistol. I called Bob and talked to him about what I wanted, then followed that up with an email for him to quote from. He sent me the quote, and the order was made. In what became my usual custom, I tried to stay away from the Fusion forum during the build period and just forget that I had even ordered the CCO. It keeps me from obsessing over it. ;) A couple of months into the build, I did stop by the forum and sure enough, I saw some things that I wondered if I could have incorporated into my build. I called Bob and talked to him about the changes. He said the equivalent of ďSure, we can do thatĒ as he always does, and I hung up the phone. I did not follow these changes to the order up with an email. They were not incorporated into the final pistol, but that is NOT Bobís fault, itís mine. I canít expect someone as busy as Bob is to remember the changes that I talked to him about on the phone. I should have followed up with an email to ensure that he got a hard copy of them, and that I got confirmation from him, but I didnít. MY fault, pure and simple.
On March 3, 2010 Bob emailed me to let me know that the pistol was refitted and going to Ion Bond for finishing and we were getting closer. The details on this are murky, but there was some problem with a part or something. It wasnít a big deal to me, so I donít remember the specifics.
Okay, fast forward to the day Bob posted some pics of the finished pistol in an email to me, June 3, 2010. The pistol is beautiful, or course, but I noticed a couple of things that didnít look right. The items are below. As I had become used to, Bob said that he would be happy to make the changes if I wanted him to, but at that point, I didnít want to slow things down and told him not to worry about the items that I knew about at the time.

Here are the two things that didnít look right at the time in the pics:
No magwell Ė my fault. This was a verbal change that I didnít follow up on as I should have.
No angled guide rod front Ė part of the original work order. Bob admitted that he just missed this.
<o:p> </o:p>
Due to me being out of the country and my Mother having some heart trouble at the time, I asked bob to hold on to the pistol until I was home and life was not so hectic. He, of course, agreed.
<o:p> </o:p>

CONTINUED.........
<o:p> </o:p>

Sarge43
08-27-2010, 23:39
Fast forward again to the pistol shipping. I picked up the pistol a few days ago from my FFL and brought it home. That was when I noticed a few things with the pistol that werenít what I ordered. I had requested, and received from Bob, a copy of my build sheet. There were no changes to it from start to finish as the verbal changes were discussed, but went no further than that. Weíve been through that, my fault.
In short, here are the things that were on the original build sheet but were incorrect on the pistol when received:
Hammer Ė Not the one ordered and shown on the build sheet
Angled guide rod front Ė on the build sheet, not done on the pistol (I already knew this)
Wrong sights Ė ordered orange rear with green front. Shown that way on the build sheet. Sights are all green.
Ordered full thickness grips (noted on the build sheet) received slims.
Flush cut and crown barrel Ė on the build sheet, not done.
<o:p> </o:p>
I sent Bob an email with these discrepancies and he emailed back that he would send out a UPS tag if I wished to send the pistol back for correction of these things. I told him about the three pistol shootout that I was committed too over Labor Day weekend and he wrote back that whenever I was ready, just let him know and heíd send out the UPS tag. Overall, none of these things are ďkillersĒ for me. In fact, after having the pistol in my hands for a few days now, I think I like the hammer that is on it better than the one I ordered. Also, the thin grip configuration is growing on me. My daily carry DW CCO has slims on it as well. The only items that I would like to have revisited are the angled guide rod front (I have a custom reworked CBOB that has this detail and this CCO was supposed to be a somewhat matching little brother to it), the sights changed to the proper colors as ordered, and the barrel flush cut and crowned. Bob is willing to do this. Itís just a matter of how long I will be without the pistol to get these items changed. Iíll have to ask Bob on that as weíve had no discussion on the matter as of this point in time.
Thatís where we are today. Now, FINALLY, on with the pistol itself!
As you can see in the pics, the pistol is beautiful! The only thing Iíve changed on it was the grips which are now solid carbon fiber instead of the red cocoboloís that came with it. When I first took it out of the box and tried the ambi safety lever, I thought ďUh oh! Thatís not good!Ē as the safety was very hard to engage and was rubbing heavily on something. I thought it was internal, but after further review the next day, I found that the back of the grip panel was not cut out for the lever near deep enough and the arm was being pinched between the grip and the frame. Easily fixed with the new grips. It now engages and releases with a crisp ďsnickĒ just as it should.
The slide functions quite smoothly and the fit of slide to frame is nice and tight. No rattle or movement at all. Anywhere. The grip safety is tight, with no looseness at all either front and back or side to side. It works just as it should with a shooting grip. The slide release is VERY tight and cannot be released with one hand as in while shooting. At least this 6í3Ē, lean 265 pounder couldnít do it. ;) Sling shotting the slide takes care of this. Iíd rather have it heavy than not be able to trust it to do itís job.
I have seen a couple of posts over time with tooling marks inside some pistols. In looking through the CCO I see none of this. All surfaces appear to be well finished and fit. As you can see in the pics, there are some copper catch marks on the feed ramp which will be interesting during the shooting portion of the Labor Day shooting. Iíll leave the rest of the internal writeup to expert who is doing the shootout and tear down.
The trigger is great. No overtravel and it breaks cleanly. Again, the expert will have a trigger scale, but it seems to be a little under 4 lbs to my nerveless, calloused trigger finger.
The barrel locks up tight and there is no play anywhere that I can see or feel. The bushing seems to be well fit to the barrel.
The frame is alloy, so there is a little difference in the black between it and the slide when the pistol is dry. I admit that Iím no metallurgist, so I donít know if this is normal between the two metals or not. The Ion Bond finish has proven itself to me on the first Fusion as it looks brand new to this day. Iíve had the barrels of both of my Fusions done with the treatment, and really like the look of it.
Iím anxiously awaiting the results of the shooting and tear down phases that will come after Labor Day.
CONTINUED.........
<o:p> </o:p>

Sarge43
08-27-2010, 23:40
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mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Overall, if it shoots like my first one, and is put together inside like I think it is, Iím going to really like the pistol. Were there problems with the build being exactly what I ordered? Yes. Should it have been checked against the build sheet before I was notified it was done? Yes. I donít think Bob or anyone else at Fusion would argue that. Given the ďproblemsĒ with it, is Bob responding in a way that I would expect and appreciate? Yes. In MY situation, since thatís the only one I know all information from both sides on, Bob is doing what I would expect to ensure that the pistol is made to be whatís on the build sheet. He hasnít offered me a list of excuses as to why itís not his fault. In fact, heís stood up and said the equivalent of ďYeah, thatís on usĒ. Heís offered to pay for shipping to get it back to the Fusion shop and has been responsive to my contacts. While I wish it was matched up in the first place, the facts of life are that no one is perfect and there are sometimes problems. I have said it many times before Ė if the worst thing I have in my life is waiting on a semi custom pistol to be built, then I lead a very blessed life. An inconvenience? Yes. A true problem in my life? No.
Will there be a third Fusion in my future? Iíll wait for the shootout and tear down results as well as putting it through some paces myself before I answer that one, but if it lives up to the level of the first one I have, then yes. Only this time, I will ensure that I take a little more control in the contact and paper trail of the way things should be along the way, and I will ask that Bob have someone double check the build sheet to the pistol prior to it being ďdoneĒ.
Now, on to the pics. The many picsÖÖ:D
Sarge

Sarge43
08-27-2010, 23:41
Pics.......
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4251.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4252.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4253.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4254.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4255.jpg

Sarge43
08-27-2010, 23:42
and MORE pics........
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4257.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4258.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4259.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4260.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4261.jpg

Sarge43
08-27-2010, 23:43
AND EVEN MORE PICS...........
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4264.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4265.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4267.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4266.jpg
That's it!

Tex Glocker
08-28-2010, 00:17
Nice looking pistol. Let us know how it does in the evaluation and hope everything gets worked out the way you want it.

Magnus2131
08-28-2010, 01:11
Very nice!

Thorazine
08-28-2010, 02:42
So how much did bob pay you to post this topic?!

















J/K :D

bac1023
08-28-2010, 06:08
Looks nice Sarge :)

SouthpawShootr
08-28-2010, 07:15
Well, looks like you got a good one. Congratulations. Still disturbing that it left the manufacturer outside of your specs. Good looking gun.


Now you people stop posting pics of CCOs before I have to go I have to go buy one. :drool:

Hokie1911
08-28-2010, 07:34
Looks great Sarge. That's a little disturbing that Bob and his folks can't follow a build sheet. This seems like a common occurrence. I was about to send him a deposit on a build and this isn't the first time I've heard a story like this. No Fusions in my future.

Sarge43
08-28-2010, 08:54
Yes, I can respect that. Everyone has to gather the information available and make their own decision. I don't view it as my mission to talk anyone into or out of a Fusion. I just wanted to put out the information as accurately as I could and let it become one cog in the wheel of information for others to use as they will. The shooting and tear down will be interesting and will have much to do with what happens with this pistol, and where I go with Fusion from here as far as another one in the future or not.
I'll be shipping the three CCO's off in a few days.
Sarge

Cerebrus
08-28-2010, 09:20
The teardown and range report is what I am really interested in reading. Thanks for a detailed review Sarge. That Fusion does look sweet.. hopefully it shoots as well as it looks

Sarge43
08-28-2010, 09:30
The teardown and range report is what I am really interested in reading. Thanks for a detailed review Sarge. That Fusion does look sweet.. hopefully it shoots as well as it looks
I agree and am interested in the shootout and tear down. The person that is doing it has EXTENSIVE experience with 1911's and is one of the premier gunsmiths in the nation in my view. He will be able to give an objective and totally in depth review of all three CCO's. He usually has to "dumb it down" for me as he tends to go off into all the micro this and technical that. Makes my brain hurt........:faint:Anyway, it will definitely be interesting. On the pistols I'm sending him -
The Wilson BWC CQB has only about 200 rounds through it.
The DW CCO has about 600 rounds through it and is my daily carry now.
The Fusion CCO is obviously brand spanking new.
He will shoot them from a Ransom with various ammunition/loads and do a complete tear down and review of not only fit, but overall parts quality.
Sarge

airflyer
08-28-2010, 13:09
looks nice ,i will really look forward to your report

Sarge43
08-28-2010, 15:18
An update to the shootout list for the Labor Day weekend -
Now included with my 3 CCO platforms are the following pistols:
Colt XS series CCO
Colt original CCO
Modified Les Baer Stinger
Kimber Ultra II
Modified Colt XSE commander bobtail
This is going to be very cool and should be of interest to many across the board. The shooting will be with different loads and brands and from a Ransom rest.
Sarge

BlayGlock
08-28-2010, 15:34
Nice looking pistol there Sarge.

pistolwrench
08-28-2010, 15:50
sarge,

Very nice looking gun. Well fitted. Ramp and throat look good.
Of course, the proof is in the pudding.

I too, get confused at times with customers' changes. Too often, communication with a client may be received via several different channels. Here is an example:
First contact is a PM via one of the forums. Then an e-mail. Then a phone call. All under different names/nick-names. Then a pistol arrives with no cover letter. :upeyes:
Once this gets sorted out, changes might occur within the same channels!
So I now insist that all changes are documented with the printed word. E-mail is good for this, as I can print it and the date is embedded.

I wish Fusion the very best.

Sarge43
08-28-2010, 16:04
Pistolwrench -
You have no idea how many sets of grips arrive at my house (not even MINE) with no contact information and nothing but a note saying "These are what we talked about". With not even so much as a name to track down. That is the reason I cannot blame Fusion for my phoned in discussion about changes. You think I would have known better. :shocked:
Sarge

SouthpawShootr
08-28-2010, 16:38
..........So I now insist that all changes are documented with the printed word. E-mail is good for this, as I can print it and the date is embedded.

Absolutely the best way to go. If it's not documented, it didn't happen. Protects everybody. Even further would be good too: send a final build sheet before work commences, don't start until it is acknowledged, and allow no changes to the worklist after acknowledgement. I'm not in this business but that's how I would do it.

pistolwrench
08-28-2010, 16:52
Sarge wrote:

"The person that is doing it has EXTENSIVE experience with 1911's and is one of the premier gunsmiths in the nation in my view."

Hmmmm...who might that be? Care to share the 'bonafides' of this expert?
:wavey:

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
08-28-2010, 16:54
I really like the way the hi power slide cuts look!

Hokie1911
08-28-2010, 16:58
Sarge wrote:

"The person that is doing it has EXTENSIVE experience with 1911's and is one of the premier gunsmiths in the nation in my view."

Hmmmm...who might that be? Care to share the 'bonafides' of this expert?
:wavey:

At the local Jr High....when Mr Davidson's 6th period metal shop class isn't building world class custom 1911s.....they make some top-notch toolboxes.

http://www.juneauempire.com/images/110207/19401_500.jpg

glock2740
08-28-2010, 17:20
Looks great Sarge.

Sarge43
08-28-2010, 17:55
Since it's officially on and going to happen, the "meister" of the pistol shoot will be none other that Dave Severns of Severns Customs. They don't come any more qualified than this guy. Squid or no squid, this guy knows his way around a 1911. :supergrin:

jsykes
08-28-2010, 19:21
That is the reason I cannot blame Fusion for my phoned in discussion about changes. You think I would have known better. :shocked:
Sarge

Unfortunately, in my case, every time I made a change, which was only once or twice, it was noted on the build sheet and Bob sent me a copy of the revised version, and it still was wrong.

In the end, my pistol showed up the wrong color (which was never changed at all during the build), wrong color small parts (also never changed during build), and the wrong trigger (also never changed during build).

The things that were changed all turned out ok...go figure.

Ultimately, it didnt matter what I changed or didnt as the build sheet changed with it and was kept up to date. It simply was not built to the final build sheet.

I'm sorry, if you talked on the phone with him about changes, there is no reason he should not have had the build sheet in front of him and updating as you spoke. It also sounds as if your build sheet was updated and right, if that is the case, there is no excuse and you give him way too much credit.

Sorry, I was a big fan of Bob's and Fusion for some time, even after receiving my gun and having to have it fixed, but the more I see, the more excuses I see, the more problems I see, and the more problems I see with him and the shop has really soured my opinion of him and his business. Its too bad as I thought he had a great product for the money, I guess that is if you actually get the product you wanted and it works.

Sarge43
08-28-2010, 21:13
I respect your position. It's one that everyone has to make for themselves. I'm sorry yours didn't work out. It sounds like the ball was seriously dropped on your project. It sounds like some major things were wrong.
Only one "correction" if you will, to your interpretation of my post. My build sheet never changed from initial quote to delivery as the changes were talked about, but never actually put on the sheet.
Call me lucky, I've not had the bad experience with Fusion. Yes, I agree that any pistol going out of the shop without at least a precursory check against a build sheet is wrong. I've brought that point up with Bob. In my case, the incorrect things weren't/aren't major enough that I don't accept sending it back to get it right. I understand that not everyone's incorrect items fit into that category.
I hope you moved on to something that is serving you well now though.
Sarge

jsykes
08-29-2010, 14:52
Actually, mine has been fixed and is a fine gun now. Just disappointing.

Some of the initial issues I also thought were not big enough to warrant sending back. However, my pistol also wouldnt run worth a damn, so when I sent it back to be fixed, I had the other issues resolved as well.

Bob was willing to do the fixes, even refinishing the gun to the original build color, so no complaints there.

My gripe was just for a supposed custom gun, how does it not match a build sheet? That is just unacceptable in my mind.

Now in your case, if you never got an updated sheet, well, I can see how it can happen, as long as it matched the original build sheet.

Again though, my opinion is that if you talk about something, it should get addressed. That is how business is done. If you are talking about custom gun building, then that build sheet should be in front of him while taking and being updated. That is the way to do business and make sure things are done right.

SouthpawShootr
08-29-2010, 14:58
I just can't understand those builds that don't match the build sheet, original or otherwise. If it's made to order, how come mistakes/deviations from the sheet?

CMG
08-29-2010, 15:22
I just can't understand those builds that don't match the build sheet, original or otherwise. If it's made to order, how come mistakes/deviations from the sheet?

Simply, because the maker doesn't care enough about their customers to get it right, and make sure it's right before it goes out the door. BS is lucky to have found the other forum where negative reports are NOT ALLOWED!

I wonder if most of his customers come from there?

ctfireman
08-29-2010, 16:14
Lookin good!

jknight8907
08-29-2010, 17:29
Nice looking gun, but absurd that the builder isn't capable of building what the customer orders. I know if a customer called me at work, told me they wanted to change an order, and I said "okay" and yet did nothing after hanging up, I would be sporting a pink slip before too long. These guns aren't cheap and it's reasonable to get what you paid for.

JoNxMeMpHiS
08-29-2010, 17:33
That is some seriously sexy gun Pr0n!!!

Sarge43
08-29-2010, 19:26
I agree with you guys that it should have been per build sheet before it left. I just try to keep it relative to the place I'm personally at in life right now. If a pharmacist gave my Mom the wrong medication for her heart condition, I'd go ballistic and he'd be in the hospital. This is not in the ballpark of "get upset" to me. This is only a pistol that I don't NEED and will be in a safe with the other 20 or so and get out to the range once in a while and if it shoots well, and is reliable, it will make it into the carry rotation. The things that were wrong are basically cosmetic, so while I fully agree with you, I just can't bring myself to get too upset about it. I know others might, and that's their call. Just not me. I hope others take the situation into account when deciding if Fusion will get their order or not. Information for others to use in making their own decision on a Fusion or not. That's it.
Sarge

jsykes
08-29-2010, 19:32
You're right Sarge, with cosmetic stuff, its not the end of the world for sure. We arent curing cancer here.

However, the reason I get a bit upset and do not like the hassle of dealing with crap like this is that there are a lot of choices out there and others do not seem to have the same rate of screw-ups that Fusion has right now.

In the end, my gun is fine, its as I wanted and works. However, there is no reason for me to deal with that. Fusion is not making some great weapon that no one else can duplicate and I'll likely (as per my experience and seeing others experience) will not have to send it back to the builder to have it eventually be right. It will be right from the beginning.

So while its not worth getting your panties in a wad over, it should send a very strong message to not have to put up with it another time and simply go with one of the other tried and true builders that actually do make their guns properly from the get-go.

faawrenchbndr
08-29-2010, 19:39
Looks great Sarge. That's a little disturbing that Bob and his folks can't follow a build sheet. This seems like a common occurrence. I was about to send him a deposit on a build and this isn't the first time I've heard a story like this. No Fusions in my future.

Sadly,.......+1

SouthpawShootr
08-29-2010, 19:43
This sort of stuff wouldn't register as upset. Having the wrong parts or a few cosmetic problems on a new gun is largely annoying. Now if I managed to get one like HC's - you probably have seen the pics, Sarge - I would be upset initially and would largely settle down to irritated by the time I allowed myself to deal with it. HC's gun was severely messed up. Your's looks pretty damn good. Sort of opposite sides of the spectrum. All of this is invaluable to those making their decision on (sort of) custom builds.

Sarge43
08-30-2010, 07:43
Yes, HC's was a different animal to be sure. Unfortuantely, I don't know of a way that we could possibly know accurately, just how many pistols go out that would fit the categories of just right, a few wrong parts, totally screwed up. It would be interesting to have an accurate picture of that. I think it's safe to say that Fusion is cranking out at LEAST three times more pistols per year today than they were just a few years ago and I think that may be conservative. Of course that's a guess on my part.
We would all agree that any pistol that takes 8-9 months to build and costs between $1,500 - $2,000 (probably what most Fusions fit into) should not come out like HC's did. I don't think anyone could reasonably defend that. BUT - on a percentage of production basis - what is an "acceptable" level of pistols leaving with things like mine that are incoorect (wrong color sights, etc)? How many pistols does Colt, or Kimber, or Ed Brown on through Les Baer and up, put out that have problems? We're dealing with a little bit of a different animal with Fusion in that almost EVERY pistol that goes out is different where the vast majority of the above listed brands is the same thing pistol after pistol. Is 5% "acceptable"? 1%? 10%? It's one of those things that is reality and of course it's always worse when it's YOUR pistol that is in that "acceptable" percentage.
Looking only at price range, Fusion would be comparable to Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, Les Baer and the upper end of Kimber (Super Carry is listed at over $1,500). It's just common sense that people who have trouble with something, anything, are more vocal than people who receive something and are satisfied with it. So, it follows that on any even playing field the percentage of reported problems is going to be higher than reported satisfaction.
Does anyone know just how many pistols Fusion is putting out the door in a year now?
This is kind of a rambling post, hope it made sense. :dunno:
Sarge

faawrenchbndr
08-30-2010, 07:50
You have a sweet shooter Sarge,

I for one can not understand the thought of the pistol not being built as specified on the build sheet as acceptable.
I'm sure they CAN read, why can they not follow the build sheet?!


I guess I'm too critical, if I pay for exact details, is it wrong to expect that I get what I paid for. :dunno:

Hokie1911
08-30-2010, 08:09
Totally agree Sarge. When I jumped into the 1911 pool a while back I did a LOT of reading being a Glock, HK, Sig guy. I was able to handle a few Kimbers and was pretty locked in on a ProCarry2. Then started reading all the Kimber QC horror stories and shied away quickly. The more I read and talked to people, I started to realize that with the HUGE number they are turning out, the lemon factor is quite low actually. There is definitely a discrepancy in the rants vs love when it comes to the forums. For every guy complaining, how many are very satisfied? I ended up getting the PC2 and love it.

Unfortunately, it seems like an alarming number of Fusions are shipping with issues and/or wrong specs. I can't think of anyone recently that has gotten one built right and that they love it. I am also curious about how many they build per year. These stories are becoming way more prevalent for a small(er) shop that builds to spec.

faawrenchbndr
08-30-2010, 08:20
Hokie'

Darn good point! Of the numbers there are WAY more satisfied customers than disapointed ones.

jknight8907
08-30-2010, 08:25
Yes, HC's was a different animal to be sure. Unfortuantely, I don't know of a way that we could possibly know accurately, just how many pistols go out that would fit the categories of just right, a few wrong parts, totally screwed up. It would be interesting to have an accurate picture of that. I think it's safe to say that Fusion is cranking out at LEAST three times more pistols per year today than they were just a few years ago and I think that may be conservative. Of course that's a guess on my part.
We would all agree that any pistol that takes 8-9 months to build and costs between $1,500 - $2,000 (probably what most Fusions fit into) should not come out like HC's did. I don't think anyone could reasonably defend that. BUT - on a percentage of production basis - what is an "acceptable" level of pistols leaving with things like mine that are incoorect (wrong color sights, etc)? How many pistols does Colt, or Kimber, or Ed Brown on through Les Baer and up, put out that have problems? We're dealing with a little bit of a different animal with Fusion in that almost EVERY pistol that goes out is different where the vast majority of the above listed brands is the same thing pistol after pistol. Is 5% "acceptable"? 1%? 10%? It's one of those things that is reality and of course it's always worse when it's YOUR pistol that is in that "acceptable" percentage.
Looking only at price range, Fusion would be comparable to Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, Les Baer and the upper end of Kimber (Super Carry is listed at over $1,500). It's just common sense that people who have trouble with something, anything, are more vocal than people who receive something and are satisfied with it. So, it follows that on any even playing field the percentage of reported problems is going to be higher than reported satisfaction.
Does anyone know just how many pistols Fusion is putting out the door in a year now?
This is kind of a rambling post, hope it made sense. :dunno:
Sarge

I would say 0%. Its simply a matter of sitting down with the completed pistol and the build sheet and checking things off. Not rocket surgery.

jsykes
08-30-2010, 14:47
I would say 0%. Its simply a matter of sitting down with the completed pistol and the build sheet and checking things off. Not rocket surgery.

I agree here. These are not guns going out the door without final checks. It doesnt matter how many guns fusion is making, they are supposedly all test fired and looked over by hand before they leave the factory. With that in mind, there is no reason ANY gun should ever leave without matching its build sheet.

The fact that there are guns reaching customers that are not functioning properly and not matching build sheets leads me to believe that not all these guns are getting the hand test firing and QC that the company says they get.

In my case, how do I get a bag full of shells that were supposedly fired and "the gun feeds fine" when I could not get two shots in a row to function. Did the UPS man screw it up on the way to the FFL, cause if it was working when it left the builder, its the only answer.

Its not a Kimber that does not get personal attention. Anything that is supposedly getting what these Fusions get in the way of attention should have zero problems when it comes to matching a build sheet.

Hell, they cant be shipping out more than a few guns a day. Anyone can sit there and match it to a build sheet before it gets packed into its shipping box.

Hokie1911
08-30-2010, 14:52
Hell, they cant be shipping out more than a few guns a day. Anyone can sit there and match it to a build sheet before it gets packed into its shipping box.

Apparently not... :whistling:

SouthpawShootr
08-30-2010, 16:07
......on a percentage of production basis - what is an "acceptable" level of pistols leaving with things like mine that are incoorect (wrong color sights, etc)?

If it were my company, an acceptable level would be zero. That would be the goal, I would still recognize that **** happens but I would make it abundantly clear that you follow the build sheet or the employee and myself would be going over it point by point during an unhappy conversation (butt chewing). If the "gunsmiths" don't like it, they know where the door is. Eventually, you'll get people who can: a) read, b) comprehend, and c) follow instructions.

Hell, they cant be shipping out more than a few guns a day. Anyone can sit there and match it to a build sheet before it gets packed into its shipping box.

Some of the finer points, in all fairness, might but difficult to check. You could have somebody examine every gun against the buildsheet for adherence to it and workmanship before it leaves, but it seems to me that some specifics would be difficult to be sure of. Not everybody is intimately familiar with every part. It might be possible to miss something. Big things like.......um........color, is a clear indication that nobody's checking.

Sarge43
08-30-2010, 22:13
Good points guys. I agree that either no one is checking, OR the person responsible for checking is getting paid to sleep while on the clock. I think I would be having that same "unhappy" conversation with them that you suggest.
Sarge

faawrenchbndr
08-31-2010, 10:11
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4245.jpg


Back to the Fusion,.........that's a fine LOOKING CCO!

Gary1911A1
08-31-2010, 10:53
Reportedly Les Baer and Bill Wilson test fire each pistol that leaves their facility. I like that enough that it's one more plus to buy a pistol from them.

SouthpawShootr
08-31-2010, 15:41
Reportedly Les Baer and Bill Wilson test fire each pistol that leaves their facility. I like that enough that it's one more plus to buy a pistol from them.

Those two are very conscious that they have a recognizable and marketable name. They want to protect the reputation, so they're both likely to be nitpickers. Some other companies :whistling: don't have that problem............at least not anymore.:supergrin:

Gregg702
08-31-2010, 15:44
I like CCO sized pistols, and that is a nice one.

Sarge43
08-31-2010, 19:58
Reportedly Les Baer and Bill Wilson test fire each pistol that leaves their facility. I like that enough that it's one more plus to buy a pistol from them.
There were 4 cases enclosed with my CCO. The copper along the feed ramp and the buildup in the barrel, would indicate that it was indeed fired prior to leaving Fusion.
Sarge