Newbie with a few basic questions [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Newbie with a few basic questions


bowzette
09-01-2010, 11:04
I use to do some shooting and reloading years ago. Sold everything and just getting back into shooting. I've been buying 9mm Federal Eagle at Wally World aroun $10 for 50 rds. I can buy .38 for around $12 to $13 a box + tax at a different store. What can I expect to reload 9mm & .38 target rds for? For example excluding the cost of reloading equiptment, brass and value for labor, what is the cost for lead bullets, for jacketed bullets, small pistol primers, per primer and power per load. For example: .08 for lead bullet, .03 for primer and .03 for power= $.14 per round, not amortizing the cost of reloading equiptment and brass. Just looking for ball park $ for lead and jacketed ammo.

I think i had a Lee single press loader. It worked fine but was slow. What types of reloaders would provide best bang for the bucks, bad pun, for reloading several calibers for handguns taking into consideration cost, volume of production. I am probably only shooting 100 rds a week of 9mm and 50-100 of .38. I have an AA conversion kit for the 9mm Glock which helps with the cost of shooting it.

GioaJack
09-01-2010, 11:21
Get a case of Diet Pepsi, a bag of Cheese Puffs and a carton of cigarettes... this is going to be a long thread. :supergrin:

No matter what equipment you end up with or how you buy your components you're not going to save money, you're just going to be able to shoot a lot more for what you're spending now and become a much more knowledgeable and better shooter... none of which are bad things. Good luck.


Jack

XDRoX
09-01-2010, 11:24
The prices for components are really going to fluctuate depending on how much you buy and where you buy it from.

Not counting brass, I reload 9mm for under $6 per 50, and I'm using pretty expensive plated bullets ($83 per 1K). If you used lead I'm sure you could get it under $5 per 50 rounds, making like 50% off walmart. I usually buy thing in bulk. 5K primers, 8lb powder, 3K bullets, etc...

A good inexpensive press is the Lee Classic Turret.

Lothar
09-01-2010, 11:32
Please remember not to shoot lead bullets out of a stock Glock! Get yourself some plated berrys and you'll be loading for cheap!

Powder = $20 per lb - 1 lb = 7000 grains, 4.7 (ish) grains per rd = 1489 rounds per pound or .0134 cents per round.

Berrys 9mm bullets = $83 per 1000 = .083 cents per round.

Primers = $35 per 1000 = .035 cents per round.

That's .13 cents a round or $13 per hundred rounds.

bowzette
09-01-2010, 11:53
thanks. I know not to shoot lead bullets in a factory 9mm barrel. I also agree that I'm not likely to save money but shoot more. I was guessing that i could reload for $.13-15 per round-about 50% of a good discount cost. Am i looking at an initial investment in equiptment in the $500/$600 range for the use discribed above? Im looking for a Honda, not a Porche and not a Kiva.

ron59
09-01-2010, 12:05
For your 9mm @ $10 per 50 .... that's very cheap these days, but even then that is $200 per 1000, right?

I'm loading at $140 per 1000, and that's using a pricier 147gr bullet. If I were to use a 115gr bullet (equivalent to what you're buying)... price would be even cheaper.

If you shoot outside, and don't mind the smokiness of a lead bullet... wow, cost drops EXTREMELY! I shoot indoors, lead is not for me... too smoky.

To get the best deals though, as said... gotta buy in bulk. I buy 10,000 primers at a time, my cost is roughly $28 per 1000 from Powder Valley. I buy powder in 8lb cannisters (once I decide on what I like), also from PV. Buying locally, at least around here... might not save much at all.

Glockin26
09-01-2010, 12:16
I started with a LCT with calipers a scale and a tumbler with media for 300 shippped, I got a dillon square deal b now for 250 with dies used. I like the progressive machine better, but 100 rds on a single stage is an hour from powder in to back in the jug ready to shoot. Square deal is 20 minuets.

EL_NinO619
09-01-2010, 12:17
The little bit of money you do save will all go to reloading accessories.:tongueout: Trust me. But you can shoot more, and have fun reloading. I would definitely do what XDRoX says and buy bulk if you can afford it. That is where you really save the $0.01. But all in all Shooting is fun and reloading is just as fun. For me there is nothing more satisfying than shooting a tight group with my hand made ammo.:cool:

Another knowledge bomb: If you can afford a good press buy it, don't end up buying a cheap one, to just buy the good one a month later. Put you money towards QUALITY first. Good Luck:wavey:

Boxerglocker
09-01-2010, 12:23
I load 124 Precision Delta FMJ’s bout bulk at $70 a thousand, $32 per 1k of CCI primers also bulk, TiteGroup powder $15 pound… that’s my current cost on 9mm $117 a thousand.
I started on a LCT setup from Kempf’s (which I later sold for 80% of my total cost, before moving to a SDB for $300 with 2 conversions) with a budget case cleaner, used Dillon beam scale, case gauge, Harbor freight calipers, manual and other misc supplies total cost was around $350 for loading one caliber.
Based on your current cost for 9mm the above set-up would be paid off in 3-4K rounds roughly (less than 4 months for me)
It’s all about what your actual requirements are, but take into account… Once you start reloading…you will be shooting more, you will always have ammo available (if you buy bulk ahead of time), and you will be shooting better ammo than you can buy.

cole
09-01-2010, 12:42
You can save 50% or more on 9mm. For .45acp, you can save 2/3 or more. Buy bulk, look for deals, shoot lead, scrounge brass and save. Cast your own, save even more.

I've gotten some excellent primer deals recently, and scored a decent deal on 4k LSWC. So, I'm currently reloading 9mm and .45acp under $100/k.

Typical good bulk deals will add about $10-$15/k to my costs below. Buy small, save little.

Mine:
9mm
FMJ bullets = ~$70/k
LRN bullets = <$50/k
Primers = <$25/k
Brass = free
Powder = ~$110/8#

.45
LRN bullets = ~$70/k
LSWC = $60/k
Primers = <$25/k
Brass = free
Powder = ~$110/8#

at_liberty
09-01-2010, 12:44
I use to do some shooting and reloading years ago. Sold everything and just getting back into shooting. I've been buying 9mm Federal Eagle at Wally World aroun $10 for 50 rds. I can buy .38 for around $12 to $13 a box + tax at a different store. What can I expect to reload 9mm & .38 target rds for? For example excluding the cost of reloading equiptment, brass and value for labor, what is the cost for lead bullets, for jacketed bullets, small pistol primers, per primer and power per load. For example: .08 for lead bullet, .03 for primer and .03 for power= $.14 per round, not amortizing the cost of reloading equiptment and brass. Just looking for ball park $ for lead and jacketed ammo.

I think i had a Lee single press loader. It worked fine but was slow. What types of reloaders would provide best bang for the bucks, bad pun, for reloading several calibers for handguns taking into consideration cost, volume of production. I am probably only shooting 100 rds a week of 9mm and 50-100 of .38. I have an AA conversion kit for the 9mm Glock which helps with the cost of shooting it.

Used 9 mm brass is a PITA. It's a good thing that there is plenty of it, because you have to sort and discard significant quantities.

I still shoot a lot of that $10 a box store bought stuff, even though it is typically 115 gr, while I prefer to load 124 gr and some 147. It is the $25 stuff for .45 ACP that creates the attraction for saving money reloading. The percentages may be similar, but the number of dollars is what gets your attention.

I think the economy and interest in guns in general creates a rise in demand for 9 mm. I would expect prices to rise, so it might be a good idea to plan on some reloading capability. Unforunately, that means components will be in demand too, possibly to the point where good 9mm brass won't be so easy or inexpensive to come by.

I did some online price shopping yesterday, and the following is what I found for 1000 pieces of 9mm 124 gr RN, only the ones in stock or available to backorder with a near term date:

FMJ


Montana Gold 107
Precision Delta 74
Magnus 100 from Midsouth
Hornady 109 from Midway
Armscor 99 from Graf
Plated


Berry's 83
Rainier LS 90 from Midway
Greater discounts should be expected at higher quantities, Montana Gold in particular.

I was not interested in hollow point or flat nose, but those were available too.

As a working number, I would say 9mm bullets cost 10 cents. Only a few months ago I bought 2000 at 9.3 cents, and that was not the lowest price.

fredj338
09-01-2010, 13:13
The short answer, you can reload any handgun round for 1/2 of the cheapest factory using jacketed bullets. A bit less using lead (2-3c/rd). Where/how you buy components is crucial to how much you save. buying a pound of powder & 1K primes, paying shipping & HM, isn't going to save you much.
You can do quite well w/ the Lee Class Turret press. Unless you need more than 200rds a week, you really don't need a progressive IMO. Even a suingle stage can get you 200rds in less than 3hrs start to finish. Buy the best yo ucan afford, especially powder measure & scale. As always, time is money so the less time you want to sepnd reloading the more it will cost. That includes messing around w/ marginal equip.:dunno:

at_liberty
09-01-2010, 16:15
The short answer, you can reload any handgun round for 1/2 of the cheapest factory using jacketed bullets. A bit less using lead (2-3c/rd). Where/how you buy components is crucial to how much you save. buying a pound of powder & 1K primes, paying shipping & HM, isn't going to save you much.
You can do quite well w/ the Lee Class Turret press. Unless you need more than 200rds a week, you really don't need a progressive IMO. Even a suingle stage can get you 200rds in less than 3hrs start to finish. Buy the best yo ucan afford, especially powder measure & scale. As always, time is money so the less time you want to sepnd reloading the more it will cost. That includes messing around w/ marginal equip.:dunno:

Reloading time has no dollar value in terms of cost, unless it is keeping one from gainful employment, what economists call an opportunity loss. You reload because you have more time than money, so it's kind of a reverse view of time investment as a savings rather than an out-of-pocket expense. You pay with your free time rather than buy the professional value of someone elses time. You mow your grass instead of pay a landscaper to do it. I don't think we usually say that mowing time has financial value. You work your hours for the day, and you are off the clock.

fredj338
09-01-2010, 16:40
Reloading time has no dollar value in terms of cost, unless it is keeping one from gainful employment, what economists call an opportunity loss. You reload because you have more time than money, so it's kind of a reverse view of time investment as a savings rather than an out-of-pocket expense. You pay with your free time rather than buy the professional value of someone elses time. You mow your grass instead of pay a landscaper to do it. I don't think we usually say that mowing time has financial value. You work your hours for the day, and you are off the clock.

I agree, my point being if you want to save time, you have to spend more money for higher end gear.:yawn: Unless you make a lot more than say $30/hr, reloading saves you money vs working more & buying your ammo (adds $3.33/50 labor cost on a 550B).:dunno: I reload to save money but alos to make gun specific ammo.
When you buy the gear to reload say 45colt, buying a tool head & dies for 9mm is like 500rds of factory ammo, so why not reload the lowly 9mm as well?

Boxerglocker
09-01-2010, 20:57
Reloading time has no dollar value in terms of cost, unless it is keeping one from gainful employment, what economists call an opportunity loss. You reload because you have more time than money, so it's kind of a reverse view of time investment as a savings rather than an out-of-pocket expense. You pay with your free time rather than buy the professional value of someone elses time. You mow your grass instead of pay a landscaper to do it. I don't think we usually say that mowing time has financial value. You work your hours for the day, and you are off the clock.
I agree, my point being if you want to save time, you have to spend more money for higher end gear.:yawn: Unless you make a lot more than say $30/hr, reloading saves you money vs working more & buying your ammo (adds $3.33/50 labor cost on a 550B).:dunno: I reload to save money but alos to make gun specific ammo.
When you buy the gear to reload say 45colt, buying a tool head & dies for 9mm is like 500rds of factory ammo, so why not reload the lowly 9mm as well?

I'll agree partly with both your statements... but in my case. I would rather pay a landscaper less than half of what I make for a 8 hour Saturday of overtime than do it myself. Time to me is in many ways money, the less I have to spend reloading my ammo needs the more time I have to spend persueing other interests, including shooting. So it's worth the investment to upgrade as the needs rise.

fredj338
09-02-2010, 02:33
I'll agree partly with both your statements... but in my case. I would rather pay a landscaper less than half of what I make for a 8 hour Saturday of overtime than do it myself. Time to me is in many ways money, the less I have to spend reloading my ammo needs the more time I have to spend persueing other interests, including shooting. So it's worth the investment to upgrade as the needs rise.
But I so hate paying someone to do a menial job I can do as well or better. Some things I will not do, but mowing the lawn, washing the car, that's what kids are for!:supergrin: There, I just saved you $100/m & gave you at least 4hrs to load ammo. Of course, you have to pay for the crumb grabbers until they can push the mower, but cheap labor is seldom cheap.

ColdShot
09-02-2010, 03:41
.I just got into reloading too,so far I only have .40SW dies.bullets
But 9MM @ Walmart 10 bucks a box I am steering away from reloading 9MM,when I do the math for powder,primers,bullets etc it came out to be only a 2 dollar savings......I like reloading but my time is worth more to me than saving only 2 bucks...The guy above said 3.33/50 - well good luck to him
I have not figured out that one yet ----and I do not want to buy 5000 units to show that kind of savings

ron59
09-02-2010, 04:45
.I just got into reloading too,so far I only have .40SW dies.bullets
But 9MM @ Walmart 10 bucks a box I am steering away from reloading 9MM,when I do the math for powder,primers,bullets etc it came out to be only a 2 dollar savings......I like reloading but my time is worth more to me than saving only 2 bucks...The guy above said 3.33/50 - well good luck to him
I have not figured out that one yet ----and I do not want to buy 5000 units to show that kind of savings

You have to buy your components in bulk, but you can still save significantly on 9mm. Walmart at $10 per box of 50 is 200 per 1000. It can be reloaded for $117 per 1000, easily. AND, it will probably be better quality.

I reload my 147grainers at $140 per 1000, but I GREATLY like mine over 115gr factory stuff, oh yeah. Cheaper, and a better load.

November Sunrise
09-02-2010, 04:59
Get a case of Diet Pepsi, a bag of Cheese Puffs and a carton of cigarettes... this is going to be a long thread. :supergrin:

No matter what equipment you end up with or how you buy your components you're not going to save money, you're just going to be able to shoot a lot more for what you're spending now and become a much more knowledgeable and better shooter... none of which are bad things. Good luck.


Jack

I started reloading just over a month ago and chose a LCT to begin with. It is a very simple unit to operate but... I now can shoot more for the same money and thats just what i have done. I am now shooting 2-3x as much as before simply because i can afford it. Just last Saturday i completed my first 1000 rounds through the LCT, all with no hic-ups. :supergrin: Even better yet. I took 5th in my division at our State IDPA match using rounds i manufactured.

shotgunred
09-02-2010, 05:03
Just bare bulk will save you a lot of cash.
1k primers $32
1 pound powder$17
2k bullets $72
$121 per K $6.06 a box of 50. Here locally this week a box of WWB at walmart $13.47

$7.42 savings or more than 50% off the cheapest ammo available. you save more with 40 and 45.

marklukich
09-02-2010, 05:21
As a few have already stated - I'm not "saving" money by reloading. I'm shooting a lot more rounds for the same money. Also, the satisfaction of finding the right mix of bullets/primer/powder/length that goes bang every time I pull the trigger and hits right where I aimed at makes me feel good about it. Now if I could only get my "aim" and trigger pull to coincide... still working on that. But that's one of the bonuses of reloading, more bullets means more practice. IMO - a Lee Classic Turret is all I need for my 200-400 rounds per week shooting... If I wanted to shoot more, I'd upgrade.

GioaJack
09-02-2010, 09:13
Learn to cast, put a little effort into finding free lead, (despite all the doom and gloom there is still a plethora of free material out there), buy your powder and primers in bulk and you can load 50 .45's for under $2.50. When you're talking about tens upon tens of thousands of rounds to learn to shoot correctly it ends up making a huge difference.

$2.50 is a pretty good price but it makes me cringe... when I started it was under a penny a round... I blame Obama and the inconsiderate component manufacturers who insist on making a profit. Who came up with this obviously unfair capitalistic system?


Jack

BK63
09-02-2010, 18:40
" Lothar" "Please remember not to shoot lead bullets out of a stock Glock! Get yourself some plated berrys and you'll be loading for cheap!"

Oh god when WhiskeyT sees this it's all over :supergrin:

fredj338
09-02-2010, 20:41
.I just got into reloading too,so far I only have .40SW dies.bullets
But 9MM @ Walmart 10 bucks a box I am steering away from reloading 9MM,when I do the math for powder,primers,bullets etc it came out to be only a 2 dollar savings......I like reloading but my time is worth more to me than saving only 2 bucks...The guy above said 3.33/50 - well good luck to him
I have not figured out that one yet ----and I do not want to buy 5000 units to show that kind of savings
If you are only saving $2/50, then you aren't shopping well for your components. Buy 5K primers, 4# of powder & 1000 fmj, you'll be right at $5/50. FWIW, my ref to $3.33/box in labor is counting 9 boxes/hr on a 550B @ $30/hr.:dunno: It's a hobby though, I don't count my time for that just like I don't count my time when I go shooting.:upeyes:

Colorado4Wheel
09-02-2010, 20:57
$3 per hundred for 9mm. Give or take a little.

XDRoX
09-02-2010, 21:13
$3 per hundred for 9mm. Give or take a little.

:wow:You can load 100 9mm for $3.

Price breakdown please.

fredj338
09-03-2010, 12:56
$3 per hundred for 9mm. Give or take a little.
That's rubbing the newbs nose in it. You need to at least explain you are using free lead to make your bullets. Which isn't really free, unless you get the lead delievered to you, making your own bullet lube & have free elec to run your pot.:supergrin: Still cheap though. I can reload 45acp for almost what 22lr cost @ $3.75/100.

Colorado4Wheel
09-03-2010, 13:19
What Fred said.

Free Lead.

HUGE consumer of time. But at least I get to say I only spend "about" $3 per hundred. I don't have the time to give you a exact cost. To busy trying to find time to make more bullets.

fredj338
09-03-2010, 16:59
What Fred said.

Free Lead.

HUGE consumer of time. But at least I get to say I only spend "about" $3 per hundred. I don't have the time to give you a exact cost. To busy trying to find time to make more bullets.
Yeah, I just smelted down 60# of range scrap for alloy. A bit of time to get out of the berm, but little sorting & almost 99% return. Unlike ww, that can run as low as 60% return if there is a lot of non lead ww in the bucket.

dudel
09-03-2010, 17:58
Buy bulk when/if you can; but don't do it until you've selected a good powder/projectile combination. Hard to think of anything worse than have 15# of powder or 2000 projectiles that don't work well in your gun. Get with a friend (or two) and share a pound of powder, and a couple hundred projectiles. Check to load manuals for versatile powders (caliber and weight) for what you plan to load. No point getting a powder that's got limited applicability until you've verified that it makes good rounds for your gun. Same with projectiles (split a buy of 1000 several ways).

Unique is a good general purpose powder that's versatile as well as economical. I just worked up a .223 load using a few grains of Unique that's quieter than 22LR unsuppressed and very accurate out to 50-75ft. Nice plinker.

Once you find your combinations, then go bulk and stock up.

cowboy1964
09-10-2010, 03:49
You need a LOT of lead to make mass quantities of .45 right? Like a pound for roughly 32 bullets. Or 30 pounds per K. Yeah that won't take any time to scrounge up!

shotgunred
09-10-2010, 05:05
:wow:You can load 100 9mm for $3.

Price breakdown please.
Have you seen the youtube video of people reloading primers with match heads?
he makes his own powder and bullets.:tongueout:
Right now he is trying to master the art of brass forging.

Bob2223
09-10-2010, 08:04
That's rubbing the newbs nose in it. You need to at least explain you are using free lead to make your bullets. Which isn't really free, unless you get the lead delievered to you, making your own bullet lube & have free elec to run your pot.:supergrin: Still cheap though. I can reload 45acp for almost what 22lr cost @ $3.75/100.

What Fred said.

Free Lead.

HUGE consumer of time. But at least I get to say I only spend "about" $3 per hundred. I don't have the time to give you a exact cost. To busy trying to find time to make more bullets.

Haven't really figured cost for my reloads and dont wanna figure time :whistling:

But I've been getting quite a bit of lead free and trading cast boolits for primers.
Just made these pure lead ingots from a garden tractor wheel weight a friend gave me.

Aint dim purdy !
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/BobMKIII/100_2954.jpg

Cast over 5,000 boolits in the last week with a new .358 HP mould & the 45 HP mould, run em both at the same time.

158 gn HP's
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/BobMKIII/100_2978.jpg


Still have a couple left to size-n-lube :whistling:

Buckets are straight wheel weights, the bags are 50/50 and some other mixes with round HP's, 5 sided HP's and some flat nose.
I like a 50/50 mix for 45's but I've been shooting a 50/50 mix in 357 with no leading at all.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/BobMKIII/100_2981.jpg



Bob