Different Ranger T in .357 Sig? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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WoodenPlank
09-02-2010, 13:33
I posted this on the GATE SD forum, and Mas suggested I post this question down here, especially for Hotpig. Mas is traveling currently, and couldnt check his own supplies to try to find an answer for me...

So, that being said, here is the blatant copypasta from my original GATE question.

Recently I was checking through my stockpile of .357 Sig SD ammo. I keep my pistol loaded with Ranger T, and have a small reserve of both Ranger and Gold Dot. When looking at the ranger ammo, I noticed two different versions of the bullet. The Ranger T I have has been acquired through multiple sources, and most of it is loaded into magazines, so I have no way of knowing where the different types might have originated.

The first type of bullet seems to be the classic Ranger T - a shallow hollow point cavity, and very obvious pointed ends on the jacketing of the "petals" , complete with long taper, inside the hollow point cavity. This design seems pretty consistent with the 9mm Ranger T ammunition I own, which also features these elongated, tapered petal ends.

The second is a little more unusual - a much deeper hollow-point cavity (without pulling a round and examining it, it almost seems to extend nearly to the base of the bullet), and much more blunted ends to the petal jacketing inside the cavity. While there still seems to be a sharp point at the ends of the petal jacket, it is much shorter and significantly less tapered than the "shallow-cavity rounds".

I remember reading once (possibly here) that early Ranger T in .357 SIG suffered from a design flaw (One that would be a concern more to LEOs than to civilians using it for SD), and was subsequently tweaked to correct the problem. Is it possible that I have a mix of that older ammo (or some other design revision of T-series), or do I have non-T series ammo mixed in with the Ranger T? Also, if the "deep-cavity" ammo is the standard, non T-series ammo, would you have any concerns in terms of performance for use as carry ammo compared to the T-Series? I get the feeling either one will be highly effective, but I do feel a little concern over the ammo inconsistency.

Having done some more checking, I have reached the mildly-informed conclusion that the deep-cavity bullets are actually SXT's, and not Ranger T, while the shallow-cavity bullets are true Ranger T's with the "talon" petals. Does this seem to ring true with anyone that knows the Ranger ammo line better than I do?
Thanks in advance for everyone's help in getting this sorted out.

hotpig
09-02-2010, 14:32
Sounds like T-Series mfg between 1998 and 2008 and T-Series Enhanced the current production T ammo.

atl-g33
09-02-2010, 16:02
Sounds like T-Series mfg between 1998 and 2008 and T-Series Enhanced the current production T ammo.

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but what's the difference between the two and how does it change the performance of the bullet?

hotpig
09-02-2010, 16:28
The newest T stays open at its widest point longer than the the original.

atl-g33
09-02-2010, 16:35
Thanks for the info, sounds like a worth while design upgrade for sure. My tiny stockpile of RA357SIGT is all of the new stuff.

WoodenPlank
09-02-2010, 17:56
So the shallow cavity is the 98-08 style? I had figured the deeper cavity would generate greater expansion, but I was not sure if they would possibly over-expand and fragment due to the velocity.

1canvas
09-02-2010, 19:32
so shopping for ranger sig rounds i want the T not the SXT? please help.

hotpig
09-02-2010, 19:46
If the box says SXT in big letters it is the original T-Series. They stopped putting SXT on the box in 2008 and put T-Series instead. The product number stayed the same since it was only a spec change to the bullet.

Winchester should have taken the SXT off of the box when they stopped making it in 1998. It would have saved a lot of confusion. Maybe they figured since the T-Series is a SXT they would leave it on the box at the time.

1canvas
09-02-2010, 20:13
i am new to the 357sig and unlike more common calibers i know the velocity of this round makes bullet selection more important. i use gold dots in all of my defense caliber guns but with the sig i thought i might look at a more agressive expanding hollowpoint. it seems many 357sig people like this round [rangerT] and the only place i can find sig ammo is on line so i can't check out the box or round. i'm a little concerned the gold dot may overpenetrate if it didn't open up with its very shallow hollowpoint.
i do think the 357sig round is one of those rounds that turn most cover into concealment though.

hotpig
09-02-2010, 20:20
There was such a long dry spell of Ranger ammo most of what you are going to find on line right now is 2010 production. You will not be able to find the older stuff unless there is some trade in ammo that pops up.

1canvas
09-02-2010, 20:24
thanks hotpig.

WoodenPlank
09-02-2010, 20:36
From my understanding, canvas, the Gold Dot has also been a great round in .357SIG. Mas has suggested in the GATE forum, along with Ranger T. I would have no issues carrying Gold Dot, but I carry the Ranger T simply because I have more of it. The more of a particular load I have, the more spare magazines I can keep loaded for it.

I have sorted through my available ammo, and now almost all of my mags now have the same bullet design throughout, as opposed to almost all of them having a mix of both designs.

Mas Ayoob
09-03-2010, 06:18
Thank you, Hotpig!

PghJim
09-04-2010, 23:52
Some of the T-series was packaged in SXT boxes. You are right in that you can tell by the bullet profile. I do not carry the Ranger 357 sig, but I believe the T-Series is not as good as the SXT. Both have talons. In all of the experiments I have done, the T-Series in more difficult to expand, and if it does expand as big as the SXT it is mostly jacket. It does penetrate a bit further than the SXT. The SXT expands rapidly. I have yet to see an SXT that did not expand through heavy clothing, but I have some T-series that look like they could be reloaded. Maybe if Winchester would have loaded the T-Series over 1,400fps, it would perform better, but as it sits, and I have shot just about every 357 Sig round made, the T-Series would be in the bottom half of my list.