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3rdgen40
09-03-2010, 07:31
I recently acquired a very nice S&W 29-2 with a 4 inch barrel.Since I rarely hunt, I am trying to find a reason to hold onto it.I have no use or desire to have a "safe queen".So, I am trying to find another use for it.Is anyone out there using a 44 mag for personal protection or home defense ? If so,what loads are you using ?

Snowman92D
09-03-2010, 07:55
180-grain Remington. Stays in the body on decently centered torso hits and is easier to control in full-power factory loads. :thumbsup:

AZBru88
09-03-2010, 08:13
I carried a 629 for many years. Lots of good defensive rounds out there! I switched to a 20/29 Glock combo for EDC. I liked the 44 mags flat, long range shooting capability. Thats why I switched to 10mm, not 44 mag, but close enough. Plus 16 rounds in the G20 and 13 rounds in the G29 (+2 ext.).

3rdgen40
09-03-2010, 08:21
I have a box of Win.200 gr.STHP 44 Special.Anyone use these rather than full power magnum loads ?

BOGE
09-03-2010, 09:13
I have a box of Win.200 gr.STHP 44 Special.Anyone use these rather than full power magnum loads ?

Yes, I do in a .44 Spcl. sometimes when I donīt carry DPX. Make sure they are the newer STīs which have been out five or so years as they have been tweaked.

3rdgen40
09-03-2010, 09:36
Yes, I do in a .44 Spcl. sometimes when I donīt carry DPX. Make sure they are the newer STīs which have been out five or so years as they have been tweaked.
Yup...they are brand new.

legion3
09-03-2010, 10:33
DPX while expensive looks promising in both 44SPL and the 44MAG.

fredj338
09-03-2010, 12:42
I have the exact same gun, picked it up at an auction for so cheap I am embarresed to even tell anyone. I shoot 44mag a lot, I own 3" snubs to 8" hunting guns, mild to wild on the ammo choices. In full power form, the 44mag is not a suitable SD/HD round IMO. It is not easy to control in DA shooting & over penetrates w/ more than enough steam to do damage beyond the target. If you do not handload, this is the time to start.
The Win210grSTHP would be my factory round of choice for SD. It's a medium power load, manageable recoil & blast & the bullet expands well & won't have much left after leaving a BG body. I have a 3" M629 that I carry as a backpack piece & when I come into town, the heavy 310gr LFP ammo gets swapped out for a soft 265grLHP @ 900fps. The only time I can justify using a handload for a SD round. You'll need a ton of practice to get proficient w/ these hand canons as a SD piece. Results should be well above the std service round, if you can deliver.:dunno:
switched to 10mm, not 44 mag, but close enough.
Sorry Az, not even close IMO. The 10mm does offer more firepower, but that isn't why I carry one in the field. I want the power, & the 10mm is closer to a 357mag than a 41mag, much less a 44mag, even medium power 44mag loadings.

vanilla_gorilla
09-03-2010, 18:18
I fairly regularly tote a 6 inch 29-4 in colder weather, which is pretty much the only time I can get away with toting a gun of that size. I'll soon be buying a 4 inch 29 for most revolver carry duties, though.

Currently, I use the Speer .44 Magnum Gold Dot Short Barrel load, which is a 200 grain JHP at around 1100 fps from my 6 inch barrel. It's perfectly controllable and expansion is impressive. I hope to shoot a deer with one this year to get a little more idea of it's performance in tissue.

My alternate load is the previously-mentioned 210 grain Silvertip, though they are very difficult to find now. Haven't seen any for sale in over a year. I have two speedloaders of them left, and that's it.

Regarding the Remington 180 grain JSP mentioned above: I am less than impressed. Expansion was significant, but not huge. Penetration, in my experience, was dismal. Recoil was impressive, though. Blast, too. That's pretty much the only reason I use them. It leaves my 29 at nearly 1650 fps, and a cylinder full of them is usually a guaranteed flinch. When others on the firing line begin to shoot better than I am, a few of those and anybody near me is usually reduced to a flinching, trigger-jerking pile of nerves. Those things are nasty loud. Even my handload of a 265 LSWC at 1400 fps isn't as loud or as nasty as those things.


Edit to add this from the Ammo Oracle:

DocGKR has evaluated the following loads out of a 5" S&W 629 revolver and 16' Marlin 1894P carbine:

Federal 180 gr JHP (C44B), Federal 240 gr JHP (C44A), Federal 240 gr JHP Hydrashok (P44HS1), Federal 300 gr LWC Cast Core (P44E), Hornady 180 gr JHP XTP (9081), Hornady 240 gr JHP XTP (9085), Hornady 300 gr JHP XTP (9088), Remington 180 gr JHP (R44MG5), Remington 275 gr JHP Core-Lokt (RH44MGA), Speer 270 gr JSP Gold Dot (23968), Winchester 210 gr JHP Silver Tip (X44MS), Winchrester 250 gr JHP Partition Gold (S44MP)

Out of all these loads, the Hornady 300 gr JHP XTP (9088) was judged superior to all others, with deep penetration and expansion in excess of 0.70". Other comments: "The Hornady 240 gr and 180 gr loadings also performed well, the Remington 275 gr Core-Lokt was a good overall performer, the Remington 180 gr and Winchester 210 gr Silvertip loads had excessive muzzle flash, the Hydrashok fragmented badly, the Silvertip did well in the revolver and not the carbine, the Gold Dot did well in the carbine and not the revolver, the Cast Core has VERY deep penetration, but no expansion".

Little Joe
09-03-2010, 18:23
I read somewhere that the Federal C44B 180gr Hi-Shock is the bees knees. Any opinions on that load?

AZBru88
09-03-2010, 20:10
Sorry Az, not even close IMO. The 10mm does offer more firepower, but that isn't why I carry one in the field. I want the power, & the 10mm is closer to a 357mag than a 41mag, much less a 44mag, even medium power 44mag loadings.

Fred I've shot over 50K of 44mag, owned 15 different 44's over the years. Carried my 629 for over 10 years as my EDC. Like I said its not 44 mag. Now time have changed in Arizona, they picked up 22 illegals outside my front door 6-8 months ago. I've had multiple friends shot at out 4 wheeling in the desert. Friends that have had their cars and trucks jacked. Personally I'll take the extra rounds of the 10mm. No bears (except up north and I carry my 300 Win mag then), just mountain lions, rattlesnakes and two legged snakes out here to deal with. Unfortunately the two legged type are ganged up!
Thats the only reason I still don't carry my 629, 6 shots just don't cut it anymore. I'll take my 29 rounds of 10mm plus what ever I have in extra mags over my 6 shot 44mag. Trust I've loaded many rounds of both 44mag and 10mm and know 10mm won't come close to my 44 mag loads. If they made a 44 mag the same size as a G20 I would have it strapped on. I've tried the Desert Eagles to heavy to CC all day long, other then that your basically stuck with 6 shots!
Also the reason I settled on 10mm is its a very flat shooting semi auto cartridge. I always liked and still do like to long range shoot with my 44's. 10mm is the best compromise I could come up with when weighing flat shooting, power, and amount of rounds in the gun.
Like I said, not 44 mag! But close enough. We are talking about pistol rounds, shot placement becomes much more important.
Hope I explained myself better this time...Bru

Snowman92D
09-03-2010, 23:50
Regarding the Remington 180 grain JSP mentioned above: I am less than impressed. Expansion was significant, but not huge. Penetration, in my experience, was dismal.

Penetration in...what? For the record, I was talking about the 180-grain Remington jhp in .44 magnum. It's really impressive in anti-personnel performance based on what I've seen at autopsies.

vanilla_gorilla
09-04-2010, 05:40
Penetration in...what? For the record, I was talking about the 180-grain Remington jhp in .44 magnum. It's really impressive in anti-personnel performance based on what I've seen at autopsies.

Penetration in water, wet newspaper, and one slightly damaged whitetail deer.

I haven't seen a Remington .44 180 JHP in the five years I've been shooting the .44 Magnum, only the JSP.

Neal
09-04-2010, 08:43
I have a box of Federal 180 gr JHP ammo. They produce a huge fireball and a horrendous muzzle blast. Way to much for a defense load, at least for this experienced gun toter. As impressive as 44 mags are, and I own several and have fired thousands of rounds through them, I agree with AZBru88. A 10mm is a better PD gun. Having said that, my Glock 20 is a safe queen and I usually carry a 1911 in 45 ACP or a Glock in 357 SIG for concealed carry. And the 44 mag is about perfect for medium size wild boars. Back in my youth(the early/mid 1970s) I bagged 2 of them in Tennessee, both with 44 mags and my own hand loads.

MSgt Dotson
09-04-2010, 09:10
Doesn't CorBon offer some .44 Special 200 gr JHP loadings at near 1000 fps? Plenty for street defensive use...

3rdgen40
09-04-2010, 09:31
Doesn't CorBon offer some .44 Special 200 gr JHP loadings at near 1000 fps? Plenty for street defensive use...
They list a 165gr load in both magnum and special.Don't see a 200gr though.

AZBru88
09-04-2010, 10:00
I have a box of Federal 180 gr JHP ammo. They produce a huge fireball and a horrendous muzzle blast. Way to much for a defense load, at least for this experienced gun toter. As impressive as 44 mags are, and I own several and have fired thousands of rounds through them, I agree with AZBru88. A 10mm is a better PD gun. Having said that, my Glock 20 is a safe queen and I usually carry a 1911 in 45 ACP or a Glock in 357 SIG for concealed carry. And the 44 mag is about perfect for medium size wild boars. Back in my youth(the early/mid 1970s) I bagged 2 of them in Tennessee, both with 44 mags and my own hand loads.

Neal the only reason I don't carry any of my 44 mags is because the dynamics out here in AZ have changed for the worse. Now we have huge gangs committing home invasions and other crimes. 5 guys tried to jack my buddies truck while he and his wife where out on the back roads looking for antelope! Like I said for me out here in AZ, 6 shots just doesn't cut it in a lot of self defense situations. I love 44's have shot them for years and still do. It is my favorite caliber. 10mm is the best solution I could come up with. Wish Glock would build a 44 mag!:supergrin: I know I'm dreaming!
All that being said each and everyone of us has to evaluate our own needs when it comes to Self Defense and defending our families. What is right for me out here near the border, might not be right for a guy living in a cabin fighting off grizzlies. Or the guy living in town fighting off a gang of drug dealers. We all have different needs.
I'm sorry if I made it look like 10mm was the only answer, I don't believe it is. In my personal situation its the best. I do miss carrying my 629. It is a tool like a favorite pocket knife.

fredj338
09-04-2010, 11:04
Fred I've shot over 50K of 44mag, owned 15 different 44's over the years. Carried my 629 for over 10 years as my EDC. Like I said its not 44 mag. Now time have changed in Arizona, they picked up 22 illegals outside my front door 6-8 months ago. I've had multiple friends shot at out 4 wheeling in the desert. Friends that have had their cars and trucks jacked. Personally I'll take the extra rounds of the 10mm. No bears (except up north and I carry my 300 Win mag then), just mountain lions, rattlesnakes and two legged snakes out here to deal with. Unfortunately the two legged type are ganged up!
Thats the only reason I still don't carry my 629, 6 shots just don't cut it anymore. I'll take my 29 rounds of 10mm plus what ever I have in extra mags over my 6 shot 44mag. Trust I've loaded many rounds of both 44mag and 10mm and know 10mm won't come close to my 44 mag loads. If they made a 44 mag the same size as a G20 I would have it strapped on. I've tried the Desert Eagles to heavy to CC all day long, other then that your basically stuck with 6 shots!
Also the reason I settled on 10mm is its a very flat shooting semi auto cartridge. I always liked and still do like to long range shoot with my 44's. 10mm is the best compromise I could come up with when weighing flat shooting, power, and amount of rounds in the gun.
Like I said, not 44 mag! But close enough. We are talking about pistol rounds, shot placement becomes much more important.
Hope I explained myself better this time...Bru
Not knocking your choice at all, but in AZ, you don't really need the power of the 44mag. When I visit AZ, I am packing my 1911 & spare mag. I don't fear big bears like in Montana, where I tend to carry the 44mag when out & about in the country.:supergrin: I only took deference to you saying it's almost a 44mag. Shooting one for years, you know that isn't true, but there are some 10mm fanatics out that actually believe that. I like my 10mm, but when I want raw power, I reach for a 44mag or heavy 45colt.

Darkangel1846
09-04-2010, 11:16
I carry the .44 special corbons when I pack my .44 magnum in town.

AZBru88
09-04-2010, 12:19
Not knocking your choice at all, but in AZ, you don't really need the power of the 44mag. When I visit AZ, I am packing my 1911 & spare mag. I don't fear big bears like in Montana, where I tend to carry the 44mag when out & about in the country.:supergrin: I only took deference to you saying it's almost a 44mag. Shooting one for years, you know that isn't true, but there are some 10mm fanatics out that actually believe that. I like my 10mm, but when I want raw power, I reach for a 44mag or heavy 45colt.
Ya I agree for raw power I love shooting my Ruger Super Redhawk. I also agree people think the 10mm is the end all of rounds. There is almost a 500 fps difference in what I load my 10's and 44 mags in a 180JHP. Thats a lot of foot pounds of energy!
My 10mm are about 1250 fps.
My 44mags are just under 1800 fps.
Ya if I was trucking around in the mountains with big bears I'd probably opt for 500 S&W or a 454. I love my 44's but would want what ever edge I could get over one of those big suckers! Sorry I didn't explain myself better the first post!

gatorboy
09-04-2010, 12:19
Speer GD SB - 200 gr. @ 1075. Same bullet as the 44special + 200 fps.

fredj338
09-04-2010, 13:20
Ya I agree for raw power I love shooting my Ruger Super Redhawk. I also agree people think the 10mm is the end all of rounds. There is almost a 500 fps difference in what I load my 10's and 44 mags in a 180JHP. Thats a lot of foot pounds of energy!
My 10mm are about 1250 fps.
My 44mags are just under 1800 fps.
Ya if I was trucking around in the mountains with big bears I'd probably opt for 500 S&W or a 454. I love my 44's but would want what ever edge I could get over one of those big suckers! Sorry I didn't explain myself better the first post!
Yeah, you have to strike a balance between portability & shootability, 500s&w is just huge!. I can handle my M629 w/ 310grLFP @ 1050fps, packs easily & that bullet never stops going, more than 21" of wetpack, better than my 404 jeffery w/ 400gr softs @ 2200fps.:shocked: If I have to shoot at a 500# grizz while packing meat or hiking, I am comfortable w/ the performance of the 44mag loaded w/ the right bullet.

AZBru88
09-04-2010, 14:10
Yeah, you have to strike a balance between portability & shootability, 500s&w is just huge!. I can handle my M629 w/ 310grLFP @ 1050fps, packs easily & that bullet never stops going, more than 21" of wetpack, better than my 404 jeffery w/ 400gr softs @ 2200fps.:shocked: If I have to shoot at a 500# grizz while packing meat or hiking, I am comfortable w/ the performance of the 44mag loaded w/ the right bullet.
I'll bet that round shoots nice out of a 629. One of my favorite 44's in my Classic Hunter, my daughter carries one in her truck a 5" blued Classic Hunter. Got it for her years ago after she fell in love with my 6" Stainless. My 18 year old granddaughter loves them also!

fredj338
09-04-2010, 14:13
I'll bet that round shoots nice out of a 629. One of my favorite 44's in my Classic Hunter, my daughter carries one in her truck a 5" blued Classic Hunter. Got it for her years ago after she fell in love with my 6" Stainless. My 18 year old granddaughter loves them also!
Yep, I can keep them inside 3" @ 25yds, I figure good enough for anything that wants to sctrach, claw or bite up close.

AZBru88
09-04-2010, 14:33
Yep, I can keep them inside 3" @ 25yds, I figure good enough for anything that wants to sctrach, claw or bite up close.
Great shooting, amazing guns.

fredj338
09-04-2010, 14:35
Great shooting, amazing guns.
Here is my SD bullet; 270gr LHP @ 1000fps. Easy shooting, penetrates very deep & as yo ucan see, expands well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272-1K.jpg

Snowman92D
09-04-2010, 14:50
Neal the only reason I don't carry any of my 44 mags is because the dynamics out here in AZ have changed for the worse. Now we have huge gangs committing home invasions and other crimes. 5 guys tried to jack my buddies truck while he and his wife where out on the back roads looking for antelope! Like I said for me out here in AZ, 6 shots just doesn't cut it in a lot of self defense situations. I love 44's have shot them for years and still do. It is my favorite caliber. 10mm is the best solution I could come up with. Wish Glock would build a 44 mag!:supergrin: I know I'm dreaming!
All that being said each and everyone of us has to evaluate our own needs when it comes to Self Defense and defending our families. What is right for me out here near the border, might not be right for a guy living in a cabin fighting off grizzlies. Or the guy living in town fighting off a gang of drug dealers. We all have different needs.
I'm sorry if I made it look like 10mm was the only answer, I don't believe it is. In my personal situation its the best. I do miss carrying my 629. It is a tool like a favorite pocket knife.

:goodpost: Very well spoken.

AZBru88
09-04-2010, 19:27
Fred are you casting those or buying them. I was looking at the Devastator HP molds today. When my buddy closed his casting business 15 years ago, I picked up 70K of 240 SWC, getting down to 6-7K right now so need to start thinking of casting again or buying some.
You do have to love, the heavy, slow combo! Lots of foot pounds of energy in that round I'm sure!
I did pick up a 1000 320 grn JHP years ago. Was looking at the box the other day, thats the only markings on it? Can't remember where I even bought them. Might have to try them on a mule deer this year. But I just put together a Savage accu stock and trigger 300 win mag topped with a Nightforce scope so I would really like to bloody it first!

Thanks Snowman!

3rdgen40
09-04-2010, 20:03
What do you guys think about this load for deer and pig ? I don't reload,soooooo.....
<FORM name=cart_quantity action=http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_35&products_id=123&action=add_product method=post><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=pageHeading vAlign=top>.44 Magnum 240gr SWC Keith Style 50rds.</TD><TD class=pageHeading vAlign=top align=right>$44.95</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/images/pixel_trans.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD class=main><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=smallText align=middle>******** language=javascript><!--document.write('http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/44mag 250gr WFN.JPG
Click to enlarge (javascript:popupWindow(\'http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=123\'))');//--></SCRIPT>http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/images/44mag%20250gr%20WFN.JPG
Click to enlarge (javascript:popupWindow('http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=123')) <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Excellent hardcast deer and elk load for all .44 Magnums! A 250gr Keith-style bullet at REAL .44 Magnum velocities. This cartridge uses standard pressure and an overall length of only 1.56". You can use it in any .44 Magnum that is in good condition! This powerful loading comes in boxes of 50!

Caliber : .44 Magnum

Bullet : 240gr SWC Keith Style

Ballistics : 1455fps - 1129 ft./lbs. - 7.5" bbl.
1380fps from a 6" Colt Anaconda
1215fps from a 2.5" Ruger Alaskan

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FORM>

AZBru88
09-04-2010, 21:01
I have killed hundreds of jackrabbits, with my 44 mag with that bullet style. Great for making running head shots. I did kill one javalina about 35-40 pounder.I have never killed anything larger with my pistols. I would think it would be fine, great penetration, not much expansion. Hopefully someone with bigger game experience will chime in!

Elmer sure killed a lot of animals with that bullet style. Just rereading his book now!

BOGE
09-04-2010, 21:59
Here is my SD bullet; 270gr LHP @ 1000fps. Easy shooting, penetrates very deep & as yo ucan see, expands well...

Fred, what alloy is that?


What do you guys think about this load for deer and pig ? I don't reload,soooooo.....

It will work beyond your expectations. A Keith hardcast will poke a hole from brisket to butthole with ease.

3rdgen40
09-05-2010, 07:20
Elmer sure killed a lot of animals with that bullet style. Yes he did.Hes also made some impressive long shots with a 4" 44 mag...:cool:

It will work beyond your expectations. A Keith hardcast will poke a hole from brisket to butthole with ease.
Great ! I'm going to order some for hunting.

AZBru88
09-05-2010, 09:39
Yes he did.Hes also made some impressive long shots with a 4" 44 mag...:cool:


Great ! I'm going to order some for hunting.
44's are great for long range shooting. A buddy of mine has a 3' gong set out at 300yards just for that. Many a day sitting on my tail gate with a ammo can full of 44's and a coffee can for the empties. I got to where it was 5/6 or 6/6 most of the time if I was doing my part. Lots of fun before a big BBQ!
We did do a lot of work to his range, all steel targets, from rabbits, to pigs, ect... about 30 of them from 10 yards to 100, then a 2' gong at 200 and a 3' gong at 300 yards. I almost cried when he sold that place and moved away. Got to shoot with some great guys, had some great BBQ's.
I'm sure you will enjoy that ammo, great hunting. I will be hunting Mule deer this year. Might go see my Granddaughter at college in OK. and do a quick whitetail hunt while I'm there visiting. Haven't hunted whitetail since I left Michigan in 77! Our whitetail are miniature out here!

CanyonMan
09-05-2010, 10:33
In the pic below I show what is EDC on the ranch. Most folks do not live on a big working ranch, or even in the country, much less 5 hours or more from a city and no other humans around for miles and miles and miles. Sometimes 20/40/60 to 80 miles between ranch houses in places.

Therefore these are very needed and effective bullets in this country for many reasons.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/03_9.jpg


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0621000933.jpg

The Hard Cast are great for the kind of country one encounters here in the desert S.W. with all it's many various barriers.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/IMG_08434042.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/pics0092.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/pics102.jpg


I've used Hard Cast and Keith style bullets for almost half a century. They will, in 44/mag/44 special, 45LC, penetrate about anything.

I have never found anything yet in these hog legs that works as well. I do use for game and Ranch SD a 20/21 BHN for extreme penetration, for two legged varmints known as drug running, people smuggling coyotes, and illegals and other assorted banditos. and we often shoot out here for fun and practice from up close, to 600 yds with these hog legs.

The loadings fred showed in his post are VERY good stoppers as well, and I would choose those for folks who want to pack the 44 in the city.


At 100 yards + the 300 gr HardCast from a 5 1/2" Ruger BH goes through the shoulder of broadside elk and out the other shoulder. Will end to end chest shot elk. Even my 44 special 300gr HC loads will blow through elk with my particular loading in the RugerSBH.


So for those who were asking if these big Hard Cast bullets are good for deer elk bear hogs... YES ! They are devistating on what they hit. Even more so out of a good lever saddle gun like a 444 marlin and 45-70 marlin.

For those who want to carry the 44mag for SD "in town," go for it if you can handle it well enough, don't just run do it because it is big and sounds awesome. Big and awesome don't mean much if ya can't pack it, and hit with it.


Hard Cast solids as shown above "are not" for n town use for the city dweller.

I good JHP is much more advised. Better still, a 44 special is plenty good loaded right with a good LSWCHP, it will ruin and usually completely end, any BG's day if ya place it right. I truly Choose for a "in town gun" (speaking of the OP's question and the discussion here on the 44's) a 44 special. Plenty enough !





CanyonMan

BOGE
09-05-2010, 12:06
...Better still, a 44 special is plenty good loaded right with a good LSWJHP, it will ruin and usually completely end, any BG's day if ya place it right. I truly Choose for a "in town gun" (speaking of the OP's question and the discussion here on the 44's) a 44 special. Plenty enough !





CanyonMan

I don`t want to shoot those bruiser Magnums nowadays when my Ruger .44 Spcl. with a Skeeter Skelton load using the Leadhead 250 gr. ``true`` Keith SWC will penetrate a Sasquatch. Lots easier on my tennis elbow as well. :supergrin::whistling:

fredj338
09-05-2010, 13:17
Fred are you casting those or buying them. I was looking at the Devastator HP molds today. When my buddy closed his casting business 15 years ago, I picked up 70K of 240 SWC, getting down to 6-7K right now so need to start thinking of casting again or buying some.
You do have to love, the heavy, slow combo! Lots of foot pounds of energy in that round I'm sure!
I did pick up a 1000 320 grn JHP years ago. Was looking at the box the other day, thats the only markings on it? Can't remember where I even bought them. Might have to try them on a mule deer this year. But I just put together a Savage accu stock and trigger 300 win mag topped with a Nightforce scope so I would really like to bloody it first!

Thanks Snowman!
Those I do myself. It's a modified Dev mold, smaller cup point cav to reduce fragmentation. The std. Dev would be a great SD bullet cast soft, about 255gr & expands well @ even 850fps.
I have killed hundreds of jackrabbits, with my 44 mag with that bullet style. Great for making running head shots. I did kill one javalina about 35-40 pounder.I have never killed anything larger with my pistols. I would think it would be fine, great penetration, not much expansion. Hopefully someone with bigger game experience will chime in!
HA! I thought I was the only one that shot jacks w/ a 44mag.:supergrin: A Lyman 215grLSWCHP @ 1300fps, shoots flat & makes getting good hits on runners as well as accurate enough for shots all the way out to 100yds. Hunting jacks is great practice for quick shoot, moving targets & the occasional long range sitting shot, fun stuff.
I shot handgun met.sil. for years w/ an 8" 44mag. Hitting 8" round steel @ 220yds is a challenge (chicken targets as tie breakers) w/ open sights.
Fred, what alloy is that?
Boge, as shown, it's 25-1, lead/tin. Sim results can be had from 50/50 clip ww/lead.

AZBru88
09-05-2010, 14:58
Fred I'll have to get with you about the bullet design when I'm ready to cast again. Wish my buddy was still in business, much easier! I do like the looks of that bullet style.
Never shot any competitions for metal sil. but shot a lot out to 100 yards at my buddies range, then the big gongs out to 300 yards lots of fun. I just put a 6 plate, rack together to get ready for my first GSSF comp. in Tucson. That will be my first formal shooting comp. I'll have to set the plate rack out at a 100 yards and see if my old eyes can still hit something that small!
People really don't believe you can get good enough to hit running jacks in the head! It got boring shooting them standing so we got to where we would get them running then shot them. Spent many an hour on my off days walking the desert shooting jacks, thats true fun!
Had a ball one day with a coyote on a hill side at 5-600 yards. Never did hit him but turned him almost a dozen times! Always seemed to hit 2-3 feet in front of him!

CanyonMan
09-05-2010, 16:24
I don`t want to shoot those bruiser Magnums nowadays when my Ruger .44 Spcl. with a Skeeter Skelton load using the Leadhead 250 gr. ``true`` Keith SWC will penetrate a Sasquatch. Lots easier on my tennis elbow as well. :supergrin::whistling:


Yeah the 44 specials are much better on the old busted up hands and knuckels and such, :thumbsup: and I buy quite a bit of those Keith 250gr from "Lead heads." Very good bullet. But do remember "for us out here", (and I do use the 44 special alot) the 44mag, the way I load it, and with the Hard Cast bullets does give flatter trajectory at longer ranges, and a good deal more push through tuffer barriers. 44sp ain't far behing his brother, but that added Umph out here could be needed.

Both get one of two loads 98% of the time. The 250gr Keith pushed hard, and the Cast Performance 300gr pushed hard. The 45LC gets 300gr and 335 gr. at 1150/1250fps. Most all these are shot from "handy in the saddle" sidearms like Ruger old style Vaquero's 4 5/8" barrrels and BH's and SBH's, barrels ranging from 4 5/8" to 7 1/2". The other 2% are heavy XTP's.

My 250gr Keith's, 44 Special.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/cid__0905001735.jpg


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/cid__0905001737a.jpg

But yes, correct. The 44special is a very excellent round for SD in the city, in the country, NO doubt ! ;)

My suggestion, as has been a few others here as well, and as I said in a few post above, to the OP is if he is carrying "in town," for SD to go on with the 44sp in a 250gr LSWCHP.




buenos tardes amigos.





CM

fredj338
09-05-2010, 16:46
Fred I'll have to get with you about the bullet design when I'm ready to cast again. Wish my buddy was still in business, much easier! I do like the looks of that bullet style.
People really don't believe you can get good enough to hit running jacks in the head! It got boring shooting them standing so we got to where we would get them running then shot them. Spent many an hour on my off days walking the desert shooting jacks, thats true fun!
Had a ball one day with a coyote on a hill side at 5-600 yards. Never did hit him but turned him almost a dozen times! Always seemed to hit 2-3 feet in front of him!
I'll have to admit, times when I would get a running jack headshot was more luck than skill. I am happy to get a solid body shot, then again, 9mm thru 44mag w/ any HP, pretty decisive on the biggest jackrabbit.:supergrin:
Buzz me anytime about the LHP. If you want some to play with, send me a PM w/ your address & I'll send you some.

AZBru88
09-05-2010, 17:25
Thanks Fred. No need to send any I have a few to play with still. With my legs I don't get to walk much any more, still can shoot. Use my tailgate a lot more now a days. Man I don't know if I want to get into casting again!
Montana Gold and I have become such good friends lately!:supergrin: My poor little postal lady (shes about 90 pounds) I tell her to call me and I pick them up so she doesn't have to try and carry them. I have bought 5 cases the last two months. Still need a couple cases of 223, 55 grn. I do thank you for the offer.
I check with my local tire guys and see whats available weights wise. I got rid of my casting stuff (except a 4 place mold I found the other day) when I got sick 10 years ago.
Thanks again for the offer...Bru
I'll get back with you after I check with my tire guys.

CanyonMan
09-05-2010, 18:56
I'll have to admit, times when I would get a running jack headshot was more luck than skill. I am happy to get a solid body shot, then again, 9mm thru 44mag w/ any HP, pretty decisive on the biggest jackrabbit.:supergrin:
Buzz me anytime about the LHP. If you want some to play with, send me a PM w/ your address & I'll send you some.


Fred, shootin those jacks is about as much fun as ya can stand ain't it ? Man especially as a youngin , we had cajillions of big jacks in the alfalfa fields and shooting them in the evining was ome fun. I either don't have time any more, or just getting about to dull in the eyeballs to hit those critters. haha.

I can attest to your LHP's bein good. The ones ya sent me waaaay back were excellent ! Man i do appreciate that amigo. I am PM ya myself about something next few days.

Gotta go. Grand kids startin to flood in, it's baby sittin time for me and the Mrs.

Take care buddy. ;)



CM

nastytrigger
09-05-2010, 19:07
Friend of mine has a NIB Marlin Lever-action .44mag that he has done a trigger job on and made the lever easier to work. He's currently using it as a house gun :supergrin:. It's a 'thumper'! Okay, his primary house gun is his Bushmaster 25th Anniversary AR... He can't wait till deer season to try out his .44!

AZBru88
09-05-2010, 19:30
thurn55 that was the one gun my wife cussed me out for selling! She loved shooting that lever action Marlin! One of these days I need to buy another one!

3rdgen40
09-05-2010, 19:36
Interesting stuff guys.I think it's time for me to finally get into reloading.

CanyonMan
09-05-2010, 19:41
Interesting stuff guys.I think it's time for me to finally get into reloading.


If your going to shoot period, especially these 44's you will be most blessed to start rolling your own man. There is a whole new world of shooting waiting for ya when ya reload. ;)


CM

3rdgen40
09-05-2010, 20:09
If your going to shoot period, especially these 44's you will be most blessed to start rolling your own man. There is a whole new world of shooting waiting for ya when ya reload. ;)


CM
I've been wanting to start for quite some time,but have kept putting it off to buy other things.Now that I have this 44, I think it's time to get serious about it.Gonna buy a press and dies and build a bench to start with.

AZBru88
09-05-2010, 20:27
3rdgen40 I just saw a used Dillon 550 today on Backpages.com for $350! It came with 45acp dies but thats a cheap change. Same guy had a SDB for $300. Check around there are some great deals on used presses if you don't get in a huge hurry.

BOGE
09-05-2010, 20:58
Canyon Man, what make are those WFN bullets in your fotos? Looks like a Veral Smith style bullet. I always wanted to try one of those as they say they hit like the hammer of Thor. Regale us with some stories if possible if you`ve used them on game, please.

fredj338
09-05-2010, 22:02
Fred, shootin those jacks is about as much fun as ya can stand ain't it ? Man especially as a youngin , we had cajillions of big jacks in the alfalfa fields and shooting them in the evining was ome fun. I either don't have time any more, or just getting about to dull in the eyeballs to hit those critters. haha.

I can attest to your LHP's bein good. The ones ya sent me waaaay back were excellent ! Man i do appreciate that amigo. I am PM ya myself about something next few days.

Gotta go. Grand kids startin to flood in, it's baby sittin time for me and the Mrs.

Take care buddy. ;)

CM
My pleasure friend. Yeah, been awhile since I was out for a desert walk & shoot. Used to go out all day, two guns, shoot a dozen or more, mostly running, sometimes sitting waaaaay off. I can't even tell you the longest shot, too many would call me a fabricator or liberal politician (same thing). Gotta get out there & do that, maybe in a couple weeks if it cools off a bit.

CanyonMan
09-05-2010, 22:03
Canyon Man, what make are those WFN bullets in your fotos? Looks like a Veral Smith style bullet. I always wanted to try one of those as they say they hit like the hammer of Thor. Regale us with some stories if possible if you`ve used them on game, please.


If you are reffering to the first set of pics at the top, post # 34, they are left to right:

45LC 335gr WLN GC from Cast performance loaded to 1200fps + and capable of taking cape buff. The middle one is; 44mag 275gr Hunter Supply made by my really good friend JR, owner and one man band builder desinger of these great bulets he puts out, and I load these in 44mag/44sp with ( alot of diff stuff) one example for real hot, is H110 for close to 1400fps. (don't want to give out exact data here). I'd hate for someone to blow something up ! haha

A word about the 275gr 44mag HS bullet. JR and I have tested these on his ranch and they are extremely accurate at very long range/s and hit like a freight train. 20/21bhn. Hammer of Thor as you put it is a mild statement man ! ha.

The far right pic is a 200gr Cast Performance WFNGC in 10mm that goes to 1200/1240fps.

Powders for all these range from Bluedot to AA # 9 to H110 and 2400.

Now, NOT pictured is a 300gr cast performance bullet which is mostly EDC in the 44mag/44sp on the ranch. These too, are run to 1200fps in the 44mag, and the 300gr in the 44special is around 750fps. Not everything I do is hotter than heck haha, but it depends on what I am doing, and where I will be on the place, OR what I am hunting, or think I may need a given thing for. (I'm complex ain't I ?) :supergrin: Not really. I am truly pretty laid back and simple actually. :whistling:

I love the 2400 powder at (i will give this one) 18.5grs both in the 250/275/300gr 44mag, and 17.5grs in the 44special. If ever there is magic in a caliber/bullet combo it is 18.5grs 2400 in a 44mag 45LC "with these bullet weights/designs (above) of 250/275/300grs. It just is. And of course the Elmer Keith load of 250gr'er Keith bullet with 22.0grs 2400. Past this, I do not want to publicly share loads, To cover my six. ;)
Some are very extreme, and been worked up over a loooong lot of years..

Ok, the 45LC will, at even 1150fps drill end to end elk and at 100 yds it takes elk broadside through both shoulders. I run 1150/1200fps standard for such events, and it is hard hitting on both elk and moose, and usually always pass through. The 275/300gr 44mag also is a real freight train on these large animals as well.

The 10mm 200gr HC is NOT for me, "past deer size". I know a ton of folks will not like that, but as a former guide, I had very strick guidlines as to what and what not I will allow on certain game. The 10mm, will take elk at close range, but is NOT an elk gun IMO and experience.

For two legged critters, there is NO NEED to run vels this high as outlined above in any of these calibers, EXCEPT for the location I am in as I think I mentioend above in a post some where. Out in this S.W. desert country, I need something that will be able "if need be" to penetrate through about anything and perhaps at longer than normal SD ranges "in case" the across the border terrorist, drug running, people smuggling, America hating, two legged coyotes who carry AK's and Uzzi's and M16's and AR 15's and even down to 30-30's, haha, decide they want to rumble. Plus the 200# lions in thick brush as well. I carry a saddle rifle usually in 35 remington or 444marlin/45-70, for hard hitting penetration, (using these LBT bullets from 300 to 405 grs) and in some places my 7mm rem mag 150gr Hornady spire point for reach out capabilities. it is where I am, what I'm doing, and what I feel in the gut, decides what I carry that day. Different spots, different terrain, etc.

Well I am rambling into a novel here like someone else I know on GT does.. uh hum, so I best stop and get off. :faint: haha.

I do not know that I did anything Boge but yap for 20 minutes, but I am wore out rag dog tired, and half brain dead at present, and my fingers keep moving... haha. You hit a subject on these hog legs that is dear to the heart and been doing for half a century. Love talking about 'em.

Let me say amigo, these LBT hard cast bullets to hit like a freight train in 20/21bhn and will bust through some very amazing things. Again, out here, penetration is very needed.

Appologies for the long write up here. I'll blame it on back pain meds ! :faint: :rofl:


Hope something made sense ! ha


Later amigos
buenos noche



CanyonMan

CanyonMan
09-05-2010, 22:21
I've been wanting to start for quite some time,but have kept putting it off to buy other things.Now that I have this 44, I think it's time to get serious about it.Gonna buy a press and dies and build a bench to start with.


Be encouraged amigo. You will do well, and really enjoy yourself in it all. ;)




CM

CanyonMan
09-06-2010, 17:57
My pleasure friend. Yeah, been awhile since I was out for a desert walk & shoot. Used to go out all day, two guns, shoot a dozen or more, mostly running, sometimes sitting waaaaay off. I can't even tell you the longest shot, too many would call me a fabricator or liberal politician (same thing). Gotta get out there & do that, maybe in a couple weeks if it cools off a bit.

:rofl: I hear ya. I get that kinda feeling every time I post on here how far we shoot for play time with the pistolas. haha.

You get out there and do that fred, dang it, shoot one or two for me while your at it amigo. BTW mom is doing great. ;)

I'll PM ya in a few days about something...


Stay safe my friend.



CM

fredj338
09-06-2010, 22:46
Interesting stuff guys.I think it's time for me to finally get into reloading.
My 2nd pistol was a 44mag RBH. It was what got me started reloading. It's the perfect excuse. You can shoot 44mag target laods for the price of 9mm, go mild to wild, from 180grLWC to 340grLFP. Mine never see jacketed bullets, nothing but lead. You can easily lay in a supply for a weekend shooting w/ a SS press. I still load quite a bit of 44mag on a ss, even though I have a 550B setup for it.

3rdgen40
09-06-2010, 23:28
Good to know fred.I'm going to order a Lee ss press and a set of dies soon to get the ball rolling.I think I will be shooting mostly lead also.
Went to the range yesterday and shot about 40 rounds of Win. 240gr JSP.That was fun ! Then, I tried a few of the 44 spec. 200 STHP's.Thought the first one was a squib...:rofl:Also caught myself flinching just a wee bit on that first round.:embarassed:

Glolt20-91
09-07-2010, 00:15
My 2nd pistol was a 44mag RBH. It was what got me started reloading. It's the perfect excuse. You can shoot 44mag target laods for the price of 9mm, go mild to wild, from 180grLWC to 340grLFP. Mine never see jacketed bullets, nothing but lead. You can easily lay in a supply for a weekend shooting w/ a SS press. I still load quite a bit of 44mag on a ss, even though I have a 550B setup for it.

Y'all keep talkin' like that and I'll have to go for a walk in the desert and stay out of the cornfields, bears like cornfields in the desert here. Have a LNL on the bench, but still use a Lyman turret nearly all the time, go figure.

Bob :cowboy:

Glolt20-91
09-07-2010, 00:39
Good to know fred.I'm going to order a Lee ss press and a set of dies soon to get the ball rolling.I think I will be shooting mostly lead also.
Went to the range yesterday and shot about 40 rounds of Win. 240gr JSP.That was fun ! Then, I tried a few of the 44 spec. 200 STHP's.Thought the first one was a squib...:rofl:Also caught myself flinching just a wee bit on that first round.

Good for you.

This is a frame capture of a start-up load shooting Remington 240gr JSPs. I would later find a piece of the cinderblock, about 1/2 fist size, that had gone over the top of the shooting pit (plus two stacked half-ton alfalfa bales) and landed about 25ft down range.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/240grJSPCinderBlock.jpg

For self-defense, the most violent self defense handload I've tested thus far was a 210gr Silvertip, AA #9, 1570fps from a M629, 6.5"; I don't think a high center chest hit would be survivable.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Nosuchthingasenergydump.jpg

What's interesting is that #1 and #2 bottles exploded, #3 bottle was not hit, #4 and #5 bottles also exploded with the Silvertip coming to rest at the railroad tie backstop. Somehow #3 bottle must have bounced high enough allowing the bullet to pass underneath, but we're talking tenths of a millisecond time frame, dunno. :dunno:

Bob :cowboy:

3rdgen40
09-07-2010, 03:05
Damn , that is impressive Bob !

vanilla_gorilla
09-07-2010, 10:31
CanyonMan, them's some purty boolits ya got there. I pretty much only use one bullet for everyday shooting, and that's a Keith bullet dropping from and RCBS mould. Made just like Elmer wanted it, square grooves and all. About 265 grains ready to load, and Elmer's 2400 load makes it hit just over 1400 fps from my 29. Don't shoot too many of them, though. That same bullet at 1100 fps is much nicer on my wrists and will still go through darn near anything I'll hit with it. The extra velocity only buys you a flatter trajectory.

CanyonMan
09-07-2010, 11:45
CanyonMan, them's some purty boolits ya got there. I pretty much only use one bullet for everyday shooting, and that's a Keith bullet dropping from and RCBS mould. Made just like Elmer wanted it, square grooves and all. About 265 grains ready to load, and Elmer's 2400 load makes it hit just over 1400 fps from my 29. Don't shoot too many of them, though. That same bullet at 1100 fps is much nicer on my wrists and will still go through darn near anything I'll hit with it. The extra velocity only buys you a flatter trajectory.


LOL.. Thanks. Yeh, I got plenty of the "original Keith's." For the 44mag /44sp, (as you described) just did not have "those" pictured. Like I said, not 'everything' I load out here is hotter than heck, but I do need something with the 'flatter trajectory.' (in places).

The 'old wrist and busted up knuckles' are a might sore after extended shooting these days, so it is refreshing to just shoot a hundred or so 44sp's at 650fps to play with every now and then. But if I don't stay on top of it with all the 'screamer loads' my hands get pamperd to much. haha.

And your correct about the 1100fps load with that weight, it is a very good load. Just that in 'some places' I may be at, the added juice gives me as we said, 'flatter trajectory,' at least a little. Yep, got to love the 2400 powder amigo. I been using it forever, and got more of 2400/Unique/H110 than any thing else in the reloading room. ;)


Stay safe, and enjoy the 29 !




CM

fredj338
09-07-2010, 12:59
CanyonMan, them's some purty boolits ya got there. I pretty much only use one bullet for everyday shooting, and that's a Keith bullet dropping from and RCBS mould. Made just like Elmer wanted it, square grooves and all. About 265 grains ready to load, and Elmer's 2400 load makes it hit just over 1400 fps from my 29. Don't shoot too many of them, though. That same bullet at 1100 fps is much nicer on my wrists and will still go through darn near anything I'll hit with it. The extra velocity only buys you a flatter trajectory.
I have found, out to 100yds anyway, 1100fps or 1400fsp, little diff in POI. I like the RCBS 245swc or 250K, both good all around bullets as is the Lyman 429421. At 1100fps or so in a 3"-4", about as good as it gets. I do like the Lyman DEv, unmodified (260gr), @ 900-1000fps for a SD load. In modified cup point (270gr), it holds together better & penetrates deep, good hunting bullet.

geo57
09-07-2010, 15:28
I fairly regularly tote a 6 inch 29-4 in colder weather, which is pretty much the only time I can get away with toting a gun of that size. I'll soon be buying a 4 inch 29 for most revolver carry duties, though.

Currently, I use the Speer .44 Magnum Gold Dot Short Barrel load, which is a 200 grain JHP at around 1100 fps from my 6 inch barrel. It's perfectly controllable and expansion is impressive. I hope to shoot a deer with one this year to get a little more idea of it's performance in tissue.

My alternate load is the previously-mentioned 210 grain Silvertip, though they are very difficult to find now. Haven't seen any for sale in over a year. I have two speedloaders of them left, and that's it.

Regarding the Remington 180 grain JSP mentioned above: I am less than impressed. Expansion was significant, but not huge. Penetration, in my experience, was dismal. Recoil was impressive, though. Blast, too. That's pretty much the only reason I use them. It leaves my 29 at nearly 1650 fps, and a cylinder full of them is usually a guaranteed flinch. When others on the firing line begin to shoot better than I am, a few of those and anybody near me is usually reduced to a flinching, trigger-jerking pile of nerves. Those things are nasty loud. Even my handload of a 265 LSWC at 1400 fps isn't as loud or as nasty as those things.


Edit to add this from the Ammo Oracle:


Vanilla, your 200 gr. GD slug @ 1100 fps will work well on the largest of deer, but especially so if you limit yourself to broadside / close in shots throught the ribs and try to avoid the heavier shoulder bone as i do. Years ago, I shot a corn fed Nebraska buck through the lungs from my tree stand @ 10 yards with a 7 1/2" SBH and my handload of a Rem. bulk 180 gr. JHP, pushed to 1250 fps. The buck went about 50 yards, but left a blood trail Ronnie Milsap could have followed. The slug exited the far side and left a 1" + hole on the far side body cavity. I have a silly hunch it also would be decent fodder in a defensive role. The reason Rem. factory JSP & JHP penetrate poorly in medium and game is that they are pushed too hard, 1600 FPS & beyond in longer bbls. Heavyweight hard casts work great too, but the lighter projectiles will as well within reason. Best of luck in your pursuit.

AZBru88
09-07-2010, 15:40
Good to know fred.I'm going to order a Lee ss press and a set of dies soon to get the ball rolling.I think I will be shooting mostly lead also.
Went to the range yesterday and shot about 40 rounds of Win. 240gr JSP.That was fun ! Then, I tried a few of the 44 spec. 200 STHP's.Thought the first one was a squib...:rofl:Also caught myself flinching just a wee bit on that first round.:embarassed:

3rdGen A great way to break yourself is load 1-5 bullets, spin the cylinder(don't watch) shut it, and go to shooting. You will break yourself, because you can really see when you hit an empty chamber. The flinch really shows up. I still play like that every time I go out. Let the recoil surprise you! I still embarrass myself! :supergrin: This will really help your longer range shooting.

Man all this talking about 44's and here I am trying to get ready for my first ever competition with GSSF. Now I'm itching to shoot some of the 4K of 44 mag I loaded up last month! You guys are killing me! :crying:

CanyonMan
09-07-2010, 17:12
I have found, out to 100yds anyway, 1100fps or 1400fsp, little diff in POI. I like the RCBS 245swc or 250K, both good all around bullets as is the Lyman 429421. At 1100fps or so in a 3"-4", about as good as it gets. I do like the Lyman DEv, unmodified (260gr), @ 900-1000fps for a SD load. In modified cup point (270gr), it holds together better & penetrates deep, good hunting bullet.

Hey amigo. Your right, and some of that does depend on the gun and barrel length as I know you know. But bro once you start stretching that out at 2/3/4/5/600 yds, well things change from the 1100 to the 1400+ fps. I'm about ready for a telescope like NASA uses to see that far any more though. :wow: HA !

But at 100yds. man there ain't much diff like you said. If a guy is going to stay 100yds or less on say, 'deer,' with a heavy hard cast bullet 1100fps is plenty. Even in the Ruger 'New Vaquero" (not to be cofussed with the old style), 1050fps = approx 22, 000 psi, is all that gun is really designed for, is enough at 100yds for deer. It will drop obviously from the 1100fps a tad though. Once we leave that 1100/1200fps and get down in the 10's or less obviously things change. But still VERY do-able !


Man how I wish out here 100yds was always max ! haha

Then when I take a trip to Tenn, to visit inlaws, and hunt with them, it is so thick I can only get about a 50yd shot or less in some places. Feels weird to see forever and a day out home here, and then go where visibility is about 40/50/75yds max. And all those briar's and cotton mouth's and gator's :wow: :wow: I'll take the wild west and rattlers and cactus fred ! haha

Later amigo.


CM

fredj338
09-07-2010, 23:21
Then when I take a trip to Tenn, to visit inlaws, and hunt with them, it is so thick I can only get about a 50yd shot or less in some places. Feels weird to see forever and a day out home here, and then go where visibility is about 40/50/75yds max. And all those briar's and cotton mouth's and gator's :wow: :wow: I'll take the wild west and rattlers and cactus fred ! haha

Later amigo.


CM
HA! At least you can hear a rattler! Cotton mouths, copper heads, give me the willys, can't hear em, can hardly see em.:shocked: Then again, hunt in the winterback east, problem solved.:supergrin:

CanyonMan
09-07-2010, 23:39
HA! At least you can hear a rattler! Cotton mouths, copper heads, give me the willys, can't hear em, can hardly see em.:shocked: Then again, hunt in the winterback east, problem solved.:supergrin:


It was supposed to be winter man, and all these gators and non rattling creatures were still around. haha. Plus as I said, I could see very far like back home, and they had me around swamps. "I hate swamps..." :scared:


Got meat but was lookin over my shoulder to much. haha



CM

vanilla_gorilla
09-08-2010, 00:58
Hey amigo. Your right, and some of that does depend on the gun and barrel length as I know you know. But bro once you start stretching that out at 2/3/4/5/600 yds, well things change from the 1100 to the 1400+ fps. I'm about ready for a telescope like NASA uses to see that far any more though. :wow: HA !

But at 100yds. man there ain't much diff like you said. If a guy is going to stay 100yds or less on say, 'deer,' with a heavy hard cast bullet 1100fps is plenty. Even in the Ruger 'New Vaquero" (not to be cofussed with the old style), 1050fps = approx 22, 000 psi, is all that gun is really designed for, is enough at 100yds for deer. It will drop obviously from the 1100fps a tad though. Once we leave that 1100/1200fps and get down in the 10's or less obviously things change. But still VERY do-able !


Man how I wish out here 100yds was always max ! haha

Then when I take a trip to Tenn, to visit inlaws, and hunt with them, it is so thick I can only get about a 50yd shot or less in some places. Feels weird to see forever and a day out home here, and then go where visibility is about 40/50/75yds max. And all those briar's and cotton mouth's and gator's :wow: :wow: I'll take the wild west and rattlers and cactus fred ! haha

Later amigo.


CM

Once again, got to agree with CanyonMan. When I'm knocking over bowling pins and plates at a hundred yards, my Bullseye load is very similar to my Keith load. However, when I stretch out and try to ring the bells at 400 yards (my longest available range) the extra 300 fps makes a very big difference.

When I'm hunting, my longest shot is usually around 30 yards. In some of the woods I hunt in, 30 yards is a darn long shot, too. Last year, I had a doe nearly step on my foot when she walked past me. I had the 29 aimed(pointed. too close to bring the gun up to aim) on the ball of her shoulder to break the shoulder. Let her walk, though. Less than 15 yards and she was out of sight. You'd only know she was there by the crunching of the leaves.

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 08:44
Once again, got to agree with CanyonMan. When I'm knocking over bowling pins and plates at a hundred yards, my Bullseye load is very similar to my Keith load. However, when I stretch out and try to ring the bells at 400 yards (my longest available range) the extra 300 fps makes a very big difference.

When I'm hunting, my longest shot is usually around 30 yards. In some of the woods I hunt in, 30 yards is a darn long shot, too. Last year, I had a doe nearly step on my foot when she walked past me. I had the 29 aimed(pointed. too close to bring the gun up to aim) on the ball of her shoulder to break the shoulder. Let her walk, though. Less than 15 yards and she was out of sight. You'd only know she was there by the crunching of the leaves.


LOL, yeah, it does make a difference once you start stretching waaay out there with those pistol shots. You really "welcome" that extra velocity big time. ;)


Out here our shots can get pretty long on game at times. My eyes not being what they used to be, I still love "play time' at the long ranges we have on the ranch, but I really limit myself on the game these days as to not make a bad shot cause of the eyes. If I hunt more down in the canyon bottoms where the mesquite runs thick, I can have closer shots on game, but outside of that, man the sky is the limit here. Therefore the 7mm Rem Mag. ;)

I see your in Florida. I suppose it is as thick there as in Tenn: where some of my inlaws live. Man they tried putting me in a tree stand one time when I went out there to visit and hunt with them, and because "you cannot see very far" (like you were talking about), they had me in a very tall very skinny pine tree, with an old john deere tractor seat strapped to the trunk. I sat up there (about 14 feet) and swayed back and forth in a pretty fair wind until I got plumb parinoid and had to get down ! :wow: They all got a good laugh out of it. That, and taking me to the cypress swamps. This is just not my kind of hunting. I like higher dryer ground where I can see and there ain't no gators and non-rattling snakes. :rofl: Me and jungle atmosphere don't mix ! haha.


I "do get even though when they come out west... Ah the stories I could share of the things I do to them ! :supergrin:



Stay safe amigo !



CM

MountainPacker
09-08-2010, 09:54
I generally just wear my 4" 629 when going to and from the mountains. I carry it with Winchester Supreme Partition Gold in the mountains. I don't need the hottest load out there for black bear.

When I head back into town I swap out the magnums for Blazer aluminum .44 Special with Gold Dot bullets on them. They're cheap and bring things down in terms of muzzle flash, recoil, noise and penetration.

Iceman cHucK
09-08-2010, 10:25
LOL, yeah, it does make a difference once you start stretching waaay out there with those pistol shots. You really "welcome" that extra velocity big time. ;)


Out here our shots can get pretty long on game at times. My eyes not being what they used to be, I still love "play time' at the long ranges we have on the ranch, but I really limit myself on the game these days as to not make a bad shot cause of the eyes. If I hunt more down in the canyon bottoms where the mesquite runs thick, I can have closer shots on game, but outside of that, man the sky is the limit here. Therefore the 7mm Rem Mag. ;)

I see your in Florida. I suppose it is as thick there as in Tenn: where some of my inlaws live. Man they tried putting me in a tree stand one time when I went out there to visit and hunt with them, and because "you cannot see very far" (like you were talking about), they had me in a very tall very skinny pine tree, with an old john deere tractor seat strapped to the trunk. I sat up there (about 14 feet) and swayed back and forth in a pretty fair wind until I got plumb parinoid and had to get down ! :wow: They all got a good laugh out of it. That, and taking me to the cypress swamps. This is just not my kind of hunting. I like higher dryer ground where I can see and there ain't no gators and non-rattling snakes. :rofl: Me and jungle atmosphere don't mix ! haha.


I "do get even though when they come out west... Ah the stories I could share of the things I do to them ! :supergrin:



Stay safe amigo !



CM
With you 14' upin the air they all got a laugh looking up your TUTU!
Now that's funny right there!

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 11:30
With you 14' upin the air they all got a laugh looking up your TUTU!
Now that's funny right there!


What a "LURKER." ! :poke:

It was a bit breezy up there, but I had on gym shorts ! :tongueout:


Good to hear from ya ????



CM
;)

LEOINTRAINING
09-08-2010, 11:52
I use it for deer hunting and occasionally carry it out with me. When I do I carry what I practice with which is 240 grain JHP in any good reputable ammo company. Fiocchi, Remington, Winchester,Corbon. I like the 240 grain cause I can hunt deer with it and use it for self defense too, cause I can handle the recoil just fine with the 240 grainer. I usually carry my Glock 35 everday though. Here in KY we can open carry, so the large factor doesn't make any difference to me. Of course my 6 inch barrel will kick a little less than your 4 incher, so a good 200 grain bullet might be better, and will still put an attacker down for the count with no problem whatsoever if you practice and hit where you aim to hit. Stay safe and keep that beauty.

Glolt20-91
09-08-2010, 11:58
Hey amigo. Your right, and some of that does depend on the gun and barrel length as I know you know. But bro once you start stretching that out at 2/3/4/5/600 yds, well things change from the 1100 to the 1400+ fps. I'm about ready for a telescope like NASA uses to see that far any more though. :wow: HA !

But at 100yds. man there ain't much diff like you said. If a guy is going to stay 100yds or less on say, 'deer,' with a heavy hard cast bullet 1100fps is plenty. Even in the Ruger 'New Vaquero" (not to be cofussed with the old style), 1050fps = approx 22, 000 psi, is all that gun is really designed for, is enough at 100yds for deer. It will drop obviously from the 1100fps a tad though. Once we leave that 1100/1200fps and get down in the 10's or less obviously things change. But still VERY do-able !


Man how I wish out here 100yds was always max ! haha

Then when I take a trip to Tenn, to visit inlaws, and hunt with them, it is so thick I can only get about a 50yd shot or less in some places. Feels weird to see forever and a day out home here, and then go where visibility is about 40/50/75yds max. And all those briar's and cotton mouth's and gator's I'll take the wild west and rattlers and cactus fred ! haha

Later amigo.


CM

You and I live in some pretty amazing and beautiful countryside with lots of pristine air to breathe; I've double carried .44mag depending on the tracks I'm seeing. I didn't realize that black bears live in the desert, stopped carrying the G20 and went to .44mag;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Ranch/AZ007.jpg

In places, brush is so thick that there is no visibility, except for the view, nice to have a scandium frame .44 Spcl with 255gr hardcast in the back pocket as a backup;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Ranch/RanchMay302007005.jpg

Other times it opens up a bit;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Ranch/RanchMay302007009.jpg

Caught a fleeting glimpse of a mountain lion loping in front of the large rock outcropping about 300 yards away while hiking with friends, I was carrying a 6" M686 with handloaded 158gr Gold Dots. Now everytime I hike in this area there's a M29 Mountain on the hip;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Ranch/2-09-2007043.jpg

Then there are times when things really open up with vast, lush grazing areas, that include range stock, deer, elk and mountain lions et al. This is the type of terrain that was made for the 7mm RemMag, .300 mags or even the .338 WinMag with their flat shooting, long range ballistics;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/Back%20country/a027.jpg

As always, if you see one rattler, look around for others nearby.

Bob

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 12:03
3rdgen40,

As the original OP on here, welcome, and thanks for putting up with some of the crazy stuff that goes on around this place. ;)

Well, back to your 44mag situation. Myself and others have suggested a few things to ya, and you have had some pretty good advice. Carrying that big hog leg in town is a chore without a shoulder rig. The sound of that scares most folks way fast. Don't let it. I discovered a way to do it on the cheap and be very comfortable and pretty much 100% concealed even with a test run we did using a Glock 20 with a 6" hunting barrel.

I had on a tucked in t-shirt, and put the Galco half harness on with the G20 in a Galco Jackass holster. This holds the gun butt slanted downward and conceals the biggest of guns. I threw over the top of that a very thin untucked shirt, and had a "gun nut" friend of mine take a look. He said.."Where is the gun.."? I moved in all directions with my arms, and arms up, arms down etc, and he could not see one single print.

I said that to say, if you are going to carry that concealed this would be IMO the way to go. I have 3 or 4 of these rigs for those times I need them with a bigger gun. here is a pic or three:


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/1027091808a.jpg


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/1027091810a.jpg

It truly is as simple as it looks here. No big buly straps and junk all over ya. Just this ^^^^^^ above here.



This is not a set. I sorta came up with this through the help of a cop friend of mine. You get the "Galco New Half Harness shoulder strap & seperately the Galco 'Jackass holster' (not Miami classic) for your gun (hope they got it." Brilliant setup.

Ammo. "For the city," I would still suggest 44special, but I would not worry about 44mag either. It will do the job with the proper ammo for sure. We could all name other guns, and calibers etc. BUT, You ask about 44mag, and you got one, so I am sticking with ya on that subject.


44 special ammo; In the city carry ammo:

Hornady makes a 180gr XTP @ 1,000fps.

Speer makes a Gold Dot 200gr @ 875fps (i can attest to how good this load is personally).

Winchester makes a 200gr silvertip @900fps.

I like Lead semi-wadcutter hollow points in a hevy bullet. but do not know a factory load for it in 44cal (maybe these other boys here do).

I reload everything, so I do my own, and am not that privvy to the factory stuff unless I am testing something.


So then. If it is the 44mag you want to carry, here is just "one good way" to pack it (very comfortable) and concealed for all day carry. And here are some 44special factory ammo suggestions. They would work well, but I do 'know' from testing in some very tuff media out of a Smith 4" that the 200gr Gold Dot is a bad son of a gun !


If you can find 44mag/44special factory LSWCHP's this would be ideal, (or start reloading) again, IMO... I'm just one voice here, and do not have all the answers. But I have been shooting the mags for almost half a century. Still don't know a thing yet. ;)

PS... I leave my 44's loaded with 'mag loads in house or in the saddle or truck', and the same with the 45LC's. But where you live, etc, may be different for you. Mine are all Ruger Vaquero's BH's and SBH's, Colts.

Good luck
Good shooting




CM

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 12:50
You and I live in some pretty amazing and beautiful countryside with lots of pristine air to breathe; I've double carried .44mag depending on the tracks I'm seeing. I didn't realize that black bears live in the desert, stopped carrying the G20 and went to .44mag;


In places, brush is so thick that there is no visibility, except for the view, nice to have a scandium frame .44 Spcl with 255gr hardcast in the back pocket as a backup;


Other times it opens up a bit;


Caught a fleeting glimpse of a mountain lion loping in front of the large rock outcropping about 300 yards away while hiking with friends, I was carrying a 6" M686 with handloaded 158gr Gold Dots. Now everytime I hike in this area there's a M29 Mountain on the hip;


Then there are times when things really open up with vast, lush grazing areas, that include range stock, deer, elk and mountain lions et al. This is the type of terrain that was made for the 7mm RemMag, .300 mags or even the .338 WinMag with their flat shooting, long range ballistics;


As always, if you see one rattler, look around for others nearby.

Bob



Yes sir mi Amigo. We do live where the buffalo roam, and the bear and the cougars all play ! haha. Great pics Bob really very nice man. Like you said, and I mentioned as well. we just don't go out there, without a hog leg capable of taking on what may come up. Again, as your pics so beautifully showed and as ( I wil try here below just for fun) we have really thick cover, to medium range, to wide open spaces like you said. The 44mag/45LC as you know with me, and the 7mm Rem mag, are always with me on the hip and saddle out here.

Ammo varies for different terrain and where I think I may be, and what i think 'may be there as you well know where your at."

The abandoned snake dens out here make for great cougar dens now on the ranch, and there are no shortage of them.


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/5-10-2007-13.jpg


There are some real deep dens in this particular canyon on the east side of the ranch. I have been within 10 feet of a cat down in here doing some stuff one day and he blasted right by me. another time a 200# 'er sitting on a ledge above me. (they eat alot of sheep from other ranches that have them) They get pretty big and fat here.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/pics106.jpg

These work great for this country:

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0611001426b.jpg

Good deals of dens here as well, and also as you showed in your pics, we got plenty of 7mm rem mag space where you and I live..

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/IMG_0070.jpg


And your right.... Where there is one rattler, there may be two... or more ! haha.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/cid_001c01c9efb9b3144c906564a8c0Northwest2.jpg


Stay well armed amigo, and watch your SIX. Keep that hog leg ready and clean ! Your getting hog leg fever from this thread ain't ya ?? haha.

Thanks Bob, again, those pics of your were fantastic amigo !!!


Later


CanyonMan

granitemonkey
09-08-2010, 15:38
Winchester 250gr platinum tip jhp, they have talons just like the old Black Talon ammo. Short and sharp as hell.

vanilla_gorilla
09-08-2010, 16:18
<snip>

Bob

Since we're posting pictures, I'll show you one of the area I typically hunt. Pic's of an old cemetery, but the woods are about the same.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/magnoliacemetery041.jpg

Usually not that green in the winter, though.

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 16:46
To stumble just a nano off track here a second, kinda. I wanted to show off some work done by a fellow GT'er here on CC, and good friend of mine. fredj338 aka, fred.

Fred sent me a few of several designs of hard cast bullets (just the lead, I did the loading) that he molded himself to try out/test/hunt and play with, in my guns. I wanted to say THANKS Fred, and that this man mixes and molds a very good cast bullet.

I do not have dead game yet, nor had the time for extensive testing, ( i think fred has probably already done some of that perhaps), but I can say they shoot great and 'accurate', and I have shot plenty enough Hard Cast bullets in all these years to know when one will work in game or two legged critters. These will !


So for now just a pic parade ! :supergrin:




Left to right: 45acp 215gr hex head shaped HC HP. These are a 45acp mans dream out here... Very nice ! I loaded them in Nickle brass 8.3grs PP for 935fps. Midle pic: 45LC 285gr Keith style loaded with 22.1gr H110 @ 1200fps Far Right: 45LC 275gr Grand canyon hollow point (ha) semi wad cutter style 18.5grs 2400 @ 1180fps

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0907001912.jpg


Left to right same thing different view:

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0907001910.jpg


Thank you for the loan of the test/hunt/play bullets amigo. VERY good job. I hope this winter to give a more detailed report if I can... However from what I see here, and the way they shoot and some things I popped, I have every reason to believe these will be (in the 45LC) good deer killers, and I totally believe the 45acp hex head (i call it) will also , even out of the M1911 or Glock 21 be a good 50yd deer killer as well. I know it will be great for two legged stuff out here in the M1911. ;)



Many Thanks !





CanyonMan

pitt1011
09-08-2010, 19:26
This is not a set. I sorta came up with this through the help of a cop friend of mine. You get the "Galco New Half Harness shoulder strap & seperately the Galco 'Jackass holster' (not Miami classic) for your gun (hope they got it." Brilliant setup.



CM

CanyonMan,

Not to hijack this thread, but I've got a quick question. Do you use the Half Harness with a belt clip or without? I ask becaue the above rig just might fit my needs for a carry set up for some of my larger pistols/revolvers and I'm looking for some advice.

Thanks

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 21:03
CanyonMan,

Not to hijack this thread, but I've got a quick question. Do you use the Half Harness with a belt clip or without? I ask becaue the above rig just might fit my needs for a carry set up for some of my larger pistols/revolvers and I'm looking for some advice.

Thanks



No belt clip. It is simply caled the Galco New half Harness. It will have a thin but very wide leater across your shoulder, and an elastic suspender band across the back of your neck and down your side to clip to your belt. I purposely added the "Jackas holster" because of the canting capibility, of butt down , muzzle up (slightly) which is the secret (if you will) to the total concealibility. But on the holster, NO, i do not use the strap from bottom of holster to the belt.. You can, nothing wrong with it at all. I just have not needed it. try it both ways and see which one suits ya best. ;)

Here pictured is a G20SF to give an idea how well this will conceal:

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/1027091807.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/1027091807c.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/1027091808.jpg

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/1027091810a-1.jpg

Tha't it..... ;)


Links: http://www.securityandsafetysupply.com/products-duty-gear/galco-8.html Scroll down until you see Galco "NEW" half Harness $58.00

http://www.securityandsafetysupply.com/products-duty-gear/galco-7.html
scroll till you see; Galco Jackass Holster Component


*****EDIT NOTE The Jackass holster is just for "semi-Auto's." If you want one for revolvers, same strap but the holster is a "Galco Component Model - S1H ."




Good luck.




CM

CanyonMan
09-08-2010, 21:09
Since we're posting pictures, I'll show you one of the area I typically hunt. Pic's of an old cemetery, but the woods are about the same.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/magnoliacemetery041.jpg

Usually not that green in the winter, though.


Man VG, that is starting to look swampy to me ! :wow:
Talk about glad that is you and not me.... haha.


Good hunting VG. Nice pic. ;)



CM

CanyonMan
09-09-2010, 06:55
CanyonMan,

Not to hijack this thread, but I've got a quick question. Do you use the Half Harness with a belt clip or without? I ask becaue the above rig just might fit my needs for a carry set up for some of my larger pistols/revolvers and I'm looking for some advice.

Thanks



OOOPS ! Forgot to add: If it is a revolver your wanting to pack. The Jackass holster will not work: it is for semi-auto's only. You or the OP (if he is interested), would have to use this "same shoulder strap above," but the holster is the : Galco Shoulder Holster Component Model - S1H

At this link: http://www.securityandsafetysupply.com/products-duty-gear/galco-7.html


Sorry about that. i forgot. I do use this holster with the above strap at times with a revolver. Works just as great, hides the gun real well.

Good luck



CM

3rdgen40
09-10-2010, 07:22
CM,
Thanks for the holster info.I have a belt holster that came with my 29.It also has shoulder strap, but I haven't tried that yet.The only name on the holster is "Strong".It's a pancake style with three belt loops.It rides so high on my belt that the butt of my gun is nearly up in my armpit...:wow: The shoulder strap is half leather, half nylon.I'll try it out when the weather gets a bit cooler so I wear a proper cover garment.I'll let you know how it works.

pitt1011
09-10-2010, 09:14
CanyonMan,

Many thanks for the reply and also the heads up about the difference between the revolver and the semi-auto carry. I was looking at getting a set up for a 686-5 4" and a G21 and this rig looks like it might work.

CanyonMan
09-10-2010, 09:30
pitt1011;15962044]CanyonMan,

Many thanks for the reply and also the heads up about the difference between the revolver and the semi-auto carry. I was looking at getting a set up for a 686-5 4" and a G21 and this rig looks like it might work.

The Jackass holster for the semi auto, and the SH1 for the revolver on the NEW half harness strap, "will not only be major comfortable" but concealed enough to where the 686 4" (i got one) to a anti - gun protest, under a thin shirt, and no one will ever know ! :supergrin:


Good luck


CM