Aluminum follower? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Mr Wasabi
09-04-2010, 10:20
I had my sights set on Vang steel follower until I read the thread about steel *possibly* being a poor choice. Who makes a good aluminum one? The extension is a Wilson. Shotgun is an 870P. I guess changing out worn followers once in a while isn't a big deal but can a worn one jam things up at the wrong time? Will aluminum offer me reliability and longevity?

Thanks.

Hydra-SHOKz
09-05-2010, 00:13
A Vang SS follower will not damage your 870.

VN350X10
09-12-2010, 17:16
Isn't there a replacement made of Delrin or Nylon ?
The self-lubricating properties would be worth looking into.
You don't see many auto-pistol mags with metal followers anymore, for good reason.

uncle albert

aippi
09-12-2010, 18:55
Hyro Shock - Yes a staniless steel follower will damage a Remington shotgun. This is according to the People who make the weapon at the factory in Ilion and according to Jery Kuhnhausen in his book "the Remington Shotguns, a Shop Manual". This is also baised on what I have seen in weapons that have these followers.

Reach into the 870 magazine and you will feel a very thin rim. This is the Follower stop shoulders and keeps the follower in the magazine tube. Stainless steel is harder then and that rim and will damage it over time. Kuhunahusen calls this Slap-peening. If you know of a diffinative book being used by gun smiths everwhere on the Remington please give me the title so I can order it and learn more. Don't mean to seem like a wise ass but you make a completely incorrect statement and don't even give us the baises on which you make the statement. I gave you there professional sources, Remington LE Instructors, Kuhnhausen and me. You have given us nothing but a statement of which I say is incorrect.

Sorry to so forcefull but when someone post something that can damage a readers weapon I have to speak up. Also, I know of no way to get people who post things like this to think about what they are posting. So if you have verifiable resourses to confirm your statement I want to see them.

Mr Wasabi
09-12-2010, 19:00
JD,

Should I just stick with the stock or Wilson followers and change them out when they get a little ragged? Can a worn follower jam things up at the wrong time?

Thanks for your experienced input.

aippi
09-12-2010, 19:25
There are some good aluminum followers out that and these are fine to use. I use Wilson Combat extensions on all my personal weapons and since I am a Wilson Dealer I get followers for less then retail. So I just would just change mine out. Also, Remington makes an Aluminum follower but it is not on my 2010 parts list so I don't know the parts number. A call to them could get that info for you. There also some being made with a new material called, help me here someone as I am not sure of the correct name but may be -Durlin - or something to that affect. Some guys on here can jump in an recommend some made with that as I hear good things about those.

Jon Christopher
09-13-2010, 04:37
JD,

Do you use the Wilson followers with the Wilson springs or Remington springs (this is with the Wilson +2 extension)? Also, why does the Wilson follower look so long and does this reduce capacity any?

Thanks,

Jon

aippi
09-13-2010, 12:22
I use it only with the Wilson spring and only in the Wilson. When I have tried to use it with the Remington spring in the Remington tubes it does not work well. I have no explanation as to why. I don't use the Remington tubes on my personal weapons only Wilson. I have not tried a Remington Spring in my Wilson tubes but will do that since I have a freaking 100 of them in my shop. James over at CDM Gear has had the same issue and has an explanation that is most likely correct but If I admitt he is correct on something he will rag me for months because for some Airborn Guy to get one over on a jarhead like me woudl be rare, but I think he has on this one so don't tell him. You can e-mail him at james@cdmgear and post the question to him and he can explain it.

The rear post does not reduce capacity as the spring takes up that same amount of space when compacted.

Hydra-SHOKz
09-13-2010, 15:01
You have given us nothing but a statement of which I say is incorrect.

I've been using a Vang SS follower in a 870 Express for about 3 years. I shoot 200 rounds about twice a month with no ill effects. I also have one in an 870P with close to 4k rounds through it. Once again, no problems.

I've also addressed the issue with Vang himself. I was told they have never had a 870 come back because of a SS follower. I was also told that his guns have to work- period. If it was an issue they would not use them.


So if you have verifiable resourses to confirm your statement I want to see them.

I have no evidence other than my own experience and the word of Vang Comp.

Please back up your claim with something other than quoting that you are a Remington LE Armorer.

Pictures of this so called "slap-peening" would be helpful.

If this is truly happening I would seriously like to see the evidence.

Jon Christopher
09-13-2010, 15:05
I ditched the Wilson followers a couple years ago because I was using them with the Remington springs. I had troubles. This is with the Wilson Extension. At the time, I thought the problem was with the followers. I have new Wilson springs and followers coming from Arkansas!

Thanks,

Jon

aippi
09-13-2010, 18:49
Hydro guy. Go to www.aiptactical.com (http://www.aiptactical.com) and you will see my certifications. Go out and buy the book or get it from Brownell's called "The Remington Shotguns, A shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen" Call the guys at Remington LE and ask then about the issue.

Do some home work on it and let us know what you find out. I don't know why Hans sells them and uses them, maybe he uses them because he sells them or sells them because he uses them I don't know. He called me once and I told him that me getting to talk to him was like a high school football coach getting to talk to Tom Landry and I respect him. He has bought from me and I him. But I can't agree with him on this and will do what the Instructors at the factory told me. It has cost me over 4K to make two trips to Illion over the years and I would be a fool to pay for advise from the horses mouth and not take it. I was told not to by the people that make these weapons, work on the LE weapons and have been there for 40 plus years. That is good enough for me. And since every gun smith I know has a copy of Kuhnhausens book, that is good enough for me. And seeing it on an 11-87P and an 870 over the years, my eyes are good enough for me.

As for your statement "this so called Slap-peening" I am telling you what Kunnhausen says in his book. You are calling him a liar? GO BUY THE BOOK AND READ IT. What is it in you that will argue with the man who wrote a diffinative book on the Remington Shotgun even when you state "based on your own exprience" What expirience man. Kuhnhausen has seen thousands more Remington shotguns then you. I bet I have seen thousands more then you and the guys that taught us this have seen and worked on ten of thousands more then any of us. I sure don't get how you can argue against these people. You are not arguing against me. I have not written a book and I have not taught thousand of armorers. I am just telling people what is in the bood and what I was taught. One clown took the 2 day class of site and contest this based on saying it was not covered in his class. Sorry for that but in my class he had us reach into the mag tube and feel the shoulder stop and explained how the stainless steel damages that over time and not to use them. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD HE DO THAT? You think with 40+ years at that factory he would know as much as you and your source? I think he knows more and I think Kuhnhausen knows more.

The readers will decide what is valid and can then use what they want. Since follower shoulder stop damage is a factory repair job them using these things puts no food on my table anyway.

As for this topic, I have no further response to you as you are to far out there for me man. Plus being right means I don't have to.

Hydra-SHOKz
09-13-2010, 20:27
As I expected, you have no evidence that this is happening.

Devin459
09-14-2010, 18:02
Sorry don't know much about this topic but IMHO I just don't think a metal follower is the greatest idea. Not saying it's bad but you guys are talking about steel snagging and causing damage, well the metal on metal friction with ANY metal follower whether its aluminum or steel just seems like it would be more prone to getting caught up and just causing all around friction vs a plastic one. Why not stick with a polymer of some type? What is the advantage to these metal followers? Less deformation over time?

GlockPride
09-14-2010, 21:31
The problem with the plastic is that if you don't keep a clean mag tube then the plastic can become marred and rough. This can cause the shells to get hung up in the tube. I bought an 870 from a guy last year that was having that problem. Found out the follower was the problem. Order a SS one, polished the inside of the tube with my drill and some flitz and cleaned it up.
Works fine now.

aippi
09-14-2010, 21:38
Personal attacks not needed here.

Z71bill
09-14-2010, 22:27
I went with this aluminum follower - don't think I paid this much but it has been a while.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=915162

IMHO the stock follower will work just fine with the stock spring -

But when

I put in this Wolff X power mag spring -

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=655995

felt I might as well upgrade the follower. I admit no science is behind my opinion :whistling: - but just seemed to make common sense - add 20% more power to the spring and it could mess up the plastic stock follower. :dunno:

Hydra-SHOKz
09-14-2010, 22:35
Got disagreements? Do it in private.

Mr Wasabi
09-15-2010, 07:33
I think I'm going to stick with the Wilson follower with my Wilson mag extension and possibly pickup one of those Wolff springs. I don't see me putting more than a couple hundred rounds a year, if that, through my 870P.

Z71bill
09-15-2010, 08:40
I think I'm going to stick with the Wilson follower with my Wilson mag extension and possibly pickup one of those Wolff springs. I don't see me putting more than a couple hundred rounds a year, if that, through my 870P.

The Wolff spring is a good upgrade.

If you look at it side by side with the stock Remington spring it is obviously more robust.

I use a wooden dowel to help keep the mag spring under control when I am putting the 870 back together.

I had a dowel left over from some project - it is 5/8 of an inch in diameter.

It works perfectly with the Wolff spring -but the stock Remington spring is too small in diameter to fit over the dowel.

aippi
09-16-2010, 12:17
I have to correct what I said reference Kuhnhausen's book. I put that he said "stainless steel" followers cause slap-preening. What he says is that steel followers cause slap-preening. It was at the factory that we were told stainless steel.

So, I change my statement now to "All steel followers cause slap-preening and can damage the follow stop shoulder of your Remington Shotgun.

Hydro guy - I appoligize for inapropirate comments when I meant to address your attitude, behavior and the way you are responding to facts as dense. I am really amused that you don't get it. I had truely forgot that guys like you are out there man. However, your post on Shotgun World titled " J.D. McGuire and his Banter" or something like is not an appropiate response. You do not own one of my weapons, have never had any business dealing with me and know nothing of my charactor. I have not seen it but am getting e-mails and calls about it. I am told it is very personal. I don't use that site and will not go to it so I will not see it. You can't have any negative effect on AI&P Tactical. A simple google will bring up nothing but positive post and to my knowledge yours is the first Negative anything about me or my company on the internet. one out of thousands. If you have a pair give a call 231-690-0954 and we can finish this in private. OH, and I encourage gun guys to go over there and read that mess you posted. It will go a long way to showing them who your are.

Victoriagotagun
09-16-2010, 20:18
If you have a pair give a call 231-690-0954 and we can finish this in private.

You can't be serious? :yawn:

MrMurphy
09-16-2010, 20:28
Edited above.

Aippi, professional level information is valuable. But if you need to vent on someone, do it by PM please.

And while Remington generally knows their stuff, why don't you call Hans up and tell him your opinion of his parts? I'm not really a shotgun guy anymore but I guarantee, if people running massive amounts of rounds through 870s saw a problem with this, he would hear.

If not him, Awerbuck would hear. Both see more shotgun rounds shot through 870s per year than most do per lifetime.

Mr. Vang is a nice guy (i've spoken to him once) but if you have a problem with his product......go direct.

And considering he's more or less numero uno (or in the top 3) of 870 modifiers in the world, I think if his stuff was causing problems.....REMINGTON would tell him.

Further personal attacks by ANYONE on ANYONE will leave this post locked. Continuation in another thread will more than likely get you banned.

Devin459
09-16-2010, 22:12
Apparently "NO PERSONAL ATTACKS" you think does not apply to you......


If you want your post count to rise past 23, pay ATTENTION.

Big_Grumpy
09-17-2010, 08:41
If'n it ain't broke, don't fix it. The plastic follower that came with my Wilson +2 extension works just fine. I wipe it down and swab out the mag tube every so often and have had no issues or reason to even consider changing it out.

Hydra-SHOKz
09-17-2010, 08:51
If'n it ain't broke, don't fix it. The plastic follower that came with my Mesa +2 extension works just fine. I wipe it down and swab out the mag tube every so often and have had no issues or reason to even consider changing it out.

Mesa make a mag extension?

Big_Grumpy
09-17-2010, 08:58
Mesa make a mag extension?

Oops. Brain fart. Wilson. Will edit.

aippi
09-20-2010, 14:25
Hydro guy called me and we had a long talk and as men will, we agreeded to disagree. He is a stand up guy and certainly the kind of guy I would hang with. I also apoligized for my less then civil conduct. I will concead that the steel followers may not cause any serious damage in weapons that you are always shooting light loads such as busting clays with. It is the heavy loads that cause the slap-peening to the follower shoulder stop. Also, this damage takes years to show up as is determined by how often you shoot the weapon and the type of loads you use. However, since most all my Remington shotguns are going to be with me for the rest of my life and I do shoot heavy loads, I accept the advise of the guys at the Remington factory and that of Kuhnhausen. Also, having seen this damage starting in two weapons I was rebuilding for clients I have to use what I know to be the best thing for maintaining my personal weapons and the ones I build for other.

So if I offend anyone on this site, have a pair like Hydro guy does and call me and settle it of site. This site is for everyone who wants to share, learn and just talk about guns. When a couple of knuckel heads start pounding on each other it just pushes people away.