Difference between Police and Express Tactical 870 [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Difference between Police and Express Tactical 870


TommyV
09-06-2010, 08:01
What are all the differences from the normal 870 express tactical that make it a Police model. I tried asking a sales person but I think he was just making stuff up so I figured people here would know.

swinokur
09-06-2010, 09:03
What are all the differences from the normal 870 express tactical that make it a Police model. I tried asking a sales person but I think he was just making stuff up so I figured people here would know.

870P is assembled in a different area of the plant by specific employees, Much better fit and finish

Does not use a MIM extractor
Heavy duty carrier dog spring
Metal trigger guard (this may have changed)
I think firing pin spring may be heavy duty as well.

May be more

Remington has a FAQ on their web site on this exact subject

Restless28
09-06-2010, 09:12
J.D. can tell you all you need to know about the 870. Take my advice...listen to him. He knows. :thumbsup:

TommyV
09-06-2010, 09:41
870P is assembled in a different area of the plant by specific employees, Much better fit and finish

Does not use a MIM extractor
Heavy duty carrier dog spring
Metal trigger guard (this may have changed)
I think firing pin spring may be heavy duty as well.

May be more

Remington has a FAQ on their web site on this exact subject

Well I have an Express tactical and the trigger guard is metal

swinokur
09-06-2010, 10:01
notiice i said that the trigger guard may have changed recently

TommyV
09-06-2010, 10:29
notiice i said that the trigger guard may have changed recently

When you said that it may have changed you were talking about the police version. Mine is the Express. The Police has not changed and still has a metal trigger guard.

aippi
09-06-2010, 11:05
There is only one 870 and they differ only by finish and funiture and a couple very small parts. The P is not fit any different then the Express, how can it be as it is the same weapon. the P is parkerized but the Express is matte finish.

The receivers both cost $247 from Remington. The Express 18.5" bead sight barrel is $131 but the Police 18.5 bead sight barrel is only $101. Now how can the Police be so much better if the police barrel cost $30 less then the same barrel for the Express.

Other then those few small parts all the parts are the same in every 870. As for the trigger plate housing being metal on the Police, that is why I would not want it as the Polymer on the Express is stronger. All the parts but one $3 spring are the same in the trigger plate assemblies. When I say the same I mean the same, I do not mean the are alike. I mean Remington only makes that one part and it goes in all 870's.

swinokur
09-06-2010, 11:14
When you said that it may have changed you were talking about the police version. Mine is the Express. The Police has not changed and still has a metal trigger guard.

no what I listed were the DIFFERENCES, and I also said that they had possibly changed, not a definitive statement.

TommyV
09-08-2010, 10:54
There is only one 870 and they differ only by finish and funiture and a couple very small parts. The P is not fit any different then the Express, how can it be as it is the same weapon. the P is parkerized but the Express is matte finish.

The receivers both cost $247 from Remington. The Express 18.5" bead sight barrel is $131 but the Police 18.5 bead sight barrel is only $101. Now how can the Police be so much better if the police barrel cost $30 less then the same barrel for the Express.

Other then those few small parts all the parts are the same in every 870. As for the trigger plate housing being metal on the Police, that is why I would not want it as the Polymer on the Express is stronger. All the parts but one $3 spring are the same in the trigger plate assemblies. When I say the same I mean the same, I do not mean the are alike. I mean Remington only makes that one part and it goes in all 870's.

Yea the model at the store I was at had " 870 Police" etched in the side. They had different sites but I like the bead site personally. What I would like is the pistol grip/buttstock with super cell recoil pad. Those are nice compared to the regular stock one on mine.

DHart
09-10-2010, 20:49
Recent production 870Ps have the polymer trigger guard now. And the heavy sear spring is no longer used in the 870P.

The only part differences are machined extractor and heavier carrier dog spring for 870P vs. MIM extractor and lighter carrier dog spring for all other 870s.

Aside from parts, the Police models are built in a separate area by a group of folks who are designated to assemble the police models. And it is reported that the 870P models are given a higher degree of attention to polish, fit and quality control than the lower priced Express models.

As for finish, the Police models are parkerized (a few are blued). Express models are given a matte black oxide finish.

Ferdinandd
09-10-2010, 22:32
While I'm sure that they have changed over the years, I bought an Express around 1992 and shot the hell out of it. Not a problem ever, except for one incident when a shell from the magazine locked up the gun by getting onto the carrier - and I think that was my fault. I shot a lot of heavy experimental BK and slugs out of this gun too, and it performed admirably. I'm ashamed to say so, but I abused it with the heavy use and neglect. I sold that 870 to fund another purchase and have since bought another, because I have that much confidence in the platform. Express or not, it works great...

Aceman
09-11-2010, 15:04
J.D. can tell you all you need to know about the 870. Take my advice...listen to him. He knows. :thumbsup:

As far as you are concerned, there is absolutely no difference. They are both guns you are never going to buy....

Restless28
09-11-2010, 16:23
As far as you are concerned, there is absolutely no difference. They are both guns you are never going to buy....

:tongueout:http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263071 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263071:tongueout:)

aippi
09-11-2010, 16:24
Aceman - I am curious how you know what someone would buy or not buy. I would never buy denture paste but I bet I will in another 20 years.

I swore I would never buy an AR and that is even after years of using the Colt LE as a Department weapon. Well, I was wrong as I bought a DPMS LR-308 AP4 this year. Hated it, and will sell it soon. Don't need it as long as the weapon inspired by god himself the M1A1 is being made.

DHart - I am not aware of any 870P models coming with the polymer trigger plate housing. It would be better if they did but Remington would loose a marketing point and they are running out of these to get people to opt for the more expensive P models. I use the ploymer on all my personal 870's and would love to see the change. If you saw new ones with the polymer then I would venture a guess that during the O'bama gun rush they ran out of cast housings but wanted to get the wepaons out there. That is the only thing I can think of.

DHart
09-11-2010, 21:29
JD... the current 870P blued/walnut model has the polymer trigger guard... at least mine does.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/P1020028.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/P1020030.jpg

Aceman
09-12-2010, 12:48
:tongueout:http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263071 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263071:tongueout:)

Well now! All apologies. About time!!!!!!! Excellent choice and great price!

Aceman - I am curious how you know what someone would buy or not buy. I would never buy denture paste but I bet I will in another 20 years.


I think it's fair to say most people here would have put money on Restless needing dentures before he finally decided on the AR/AK/M1/500/870/1300/Mosin/etc...

But apparently he has pulled the trigger so to speak!

aippi
09-12-2010, 13:25
OK, that was a special run. All the other P models are Parkerized and come with matte finish cast metal trigger plate assembly. They still have the blue trigger plates assemblies for sale and I got several a few months ago. They apparently did not have enough for the special run and used the Express trigger plate assemblies. My nest questions is did they upgrade them with the proper carrier dog follower spring. Could you check. On my web site is a video "carrier dog follower" and that shows the correct black spring for the P model. I would be surprised if they did not upgrade the trigger plate assembly. Check it out and let us know.

I am also certain that the P models still come with the cast metal trigger plates except for that blued special run apparently.

MD357
09-12-2010, 13:54
:tongueout:http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263071 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263071:tongueout:)


OMG!!! you bought a cop gun!! Those are all worn out and gone to crap!!







Seriously, great find. I'd love to find a Win 1300 in good condition for that cheap. :cool:

aippi
09-12-2010, 15:20
Ace,- sound like you now the guy so I understand your post now. And yes he did well as those are fine dependable pumps.

DHart
09-12-2010, 15:31
JD... I will check and report back.

Aceman
09-12-2010, 15:49
Ace,- sound like you now the guy so I understand your post now. And yes he did well as those are fine dependable pumps.

And technically, I was correct. He didn't buy either of them!:rofl:

DHart
09-12-2010, 16:55
JD... black carrier dog spring in the blued/walnut 870P.

But WHY does the Police model have a heavier carrier dog spring than all of the other 870 models? All this spring does is push the carrier down to receive the next shell. What makes some 870's apparently need a heavier spring for reliability and other 870s not?

If one weight of spring is more reliable than the other, then obviously, there are a lot of 870s out there that are less reliable than others.

Why don't ALL 870's have the same carrier dog spring?

Z71bill
09-18-2010, 15:19
JD... black carrier dog spring in the blued/walnut 870P.

But WHY does the Police model have a heavier carrier dog spring than all of the other 870 models? All this spring does is push the carrier down to receive the next shell. What makes some 870's apparently need a heavier spring for reliability and other 870s not?

If one weight of spring is more reliable than the other, then obviously, there are a lot of 870s out there that are less reliable than others.

Why don't ALL 870's have the same carrier dog spring?

Maybe - To give people on tactical shotgun forums something to talk about.:cool:

Not sure why I think this - I could be wrong - but for some reason I think the police model uses the spring out of the Remington 1100 - I considered changing it out (upgrade?) when I first bought my 870.

After shooting several hundred rounds with the stock spring with no issues I figured why change it out and risk messing it up.

If I replaced it now I am not sure which one I would pick - the stock spring or the "police" - :dunno:

I wonder what the spring weight is of each spring / how much difference there really is?

DHart
09-18-2010, 16:35
JD... black carrier dog spring in the blued/walnut 870P.

But WHY does the Police model have a heavier carrier dog spring than all of the other 870 models? All this spring does is push the carrier down to receive the next shell. What makes some 870's apparently need a heavier spring for reliability and other 870s not?

If one weight of spring is more reliable than the other, then obviously, there are a lot of 870s out there that are less reliable than others.

Why don't ALL 870's have the same carrier dog spring?

The answer to this question is ever illusive. I've asked it of many people and have yet to learn why there are two different springs. My conclusion is that it probably doesn't matter which spring is in there... they both work reliably enough. Remington probably uses the stiffer spring difference to make people think the P models are just that much more "special". :rofl:

I do believe the police models are given more attention to detail, fit, finish, and internals polishing than the Express line. And it is quite clear that the parkerized and blued finishes of the police models are superior to the finish given the Express models. And the wood, on those models which have wood, is much higher grade on the Police models as well.

But as for the carrier dog spring difference? Whatever?

aippi
09-19-2010, 09:37
Why a couple different parts in the 870P? When you market an item that is going to cost near $200 more then a like item you have to have marketing points. Differences to list. Does the different spring give you better action on the carrier? Yes it does. Can you even notice it? Not likely, but I can because I work on these weapon almost every day. Is it worth the $3 to put one in your 870? You decide that.

Their delima is that 60 years ago they designed an almost perfect pump shotgun. There have only been a few minor changes over all these years. So that 870 Express is the same weapon as that high dollar Wingmaster of Police and will do every thing they will, last as long and never fail you. Your intended use, wallet and personal preference will determine which model you get. They are all worth what you pay for them.

DHart
09-19-2010, 13:31
Why a couple different parts in the 870P? When you market an item that is going to cost near $200 more then a like item you have to have marketing points. Differences to list.

Absolutely. Even if the differences listed don't really amount to much. Some differences with the police models are substantial and at least one appears to be insignificant.

With regard to the carrier dog spring difference, it sure looks like there's no difference in functionality or reliability, or the same spring would be used in all 870s.

With regard to the finishes difference, the difference IS significant. Parkerized is clearly quite superior to black oxide and that's the bulk of where the extra $200 goes. Unless you're buying a model with wood furniture, in which case the police model gets much more expensive solid walnut vs. laminated. So these differences are quite significant.

With regard to the difference in attention to fit and polishing of internals, it appears as though there is probably a difference here as well. As to how significant... that might be hard to say.

Does the different spring give you better action on the carrier? Yes it does. Can you even notice it? Not likely, but I can because I work on these weapon almost every day. Is it worth the $3 to put one in your 870? You decide that.

J.D. By "notice it", you mean it takes a little more pressure to push the carrier out of the way to load the gun, right? The question here is, what does "better" mean? If the carrier returns to the loading port reliably with either spring, then is it necessarily "better"? If the lighter spring makes pushing the carrier out of the way for loading the gun easier and returns to the loading port reliably every time, then which is better? This seems to be a decision for which there is no wrong choice. I'm content with the heavier spring that came in my gun. But has anyone ever heard a complaint that an 870 with the regular spring has failed as a result of the regular carrier dog spring? I've never heard of any. Have you?

They are all worth what you pay for them. I think this is true.

If you want the good parkerized finish, you pay a couple hundred more up front (and possibly get a gun which has been given a little more attention?) Or you pay a couple of hundred more later to get the gun refinished in parkerized. Either way, you're mostly getting what you pay for.

QUESTION for you. With all the complaints of less than adequate chamber polishing on Express models, (this is undeniable as the complaints have been widespread for several years now), when you buy "police" barrels, are you seeing proper chamber polishing in those or not? Of course, polishing a chamber is easy enough for a caveman to do and takes very little time, so this isn't a BIG deal. Unless the chamber is improperly sized, in which case re-chambering requires the work of a gunsmith.