1938 Mosin Nagant M91/30 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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LilWolfess
09-15-2010, 15:29
Just picked this up at Fleet Farm for 89 bucks in "very good condition."

I'm still in the cosmoline removal process, but I am already pretty stoked. It's pretty dang close to shoulder height without the bayonet!

I've shot the M44 version before, but only put about 3 rounds through it before I figured it would knock off my shoulder (even with two heavy winter layers on). Hopefully the 91/30 has a little more forgiving recoil.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs702.snc4/62201_1573573455161_1110271946_31656018_4248790_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs342.ash2/62201_1573573335158_1110271946_31656015_173153_n.jpg

chris in va
09-15-2010, 17:04
Hopefully the 91/30 has a little more forgiving recoil.

It does. My friend bought a 91/30 a few years ago and we really didn't have an issue with bruiser recoil. He did install this leather buttpad after a while but really wasn't necessary.

My M38 on the other hand will give you pause about taking that next shot. It's even lighter than the M44 without that bayonet contraption.

skifast
09-15-2010, 17:59
A Limbsaver butt pad will make a big difference.

sawgrass
09-15-2010, 21:45
Let me know how that shoots for you.
I bet we can spare a few rounds of Czech training ammo.
It's a great big bang and shoots like .22.

I can mail you some if you want it.

Have you gotten over your fear of leeches???:supergrin:

LilWolfess
09-23-2010, 22:02
Let me know how that shoots for you.
I bet we can spare a few rounds of Czech training ammo.
It's a great big bang and shoots like .22.

I can mail you some if you want it.

Have you gotten over your fear of leeches???:supergrin:

Haven't had much of any chance to finish up de-greasing the stock. It's close, but not quite there. I've been putting in as many hours at work as possible.

I still hate leeches. I'm not scared of them, but man do I ever hate the feeling I get when I get too close to one (or one gets too close to me).

WoodenPlank
09-26-2010, 11:26
Something I once saw on another messageboard about the Nagant:

Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

The only one I have ever shot, though, had very mild recoil. Then again, I am not very recoil sensitive, either.

MrsKitty
09-26-2010, 12:00
I tried really, really hard to not look in here... :sigh: :rofl:

PATRICE
09-26-2010, 16:22
.....

sawgrass
09-26-2010, 18:35
I tried really, really hard to not look in here... :sigh: :rofl:

Buy one!

Wow, still in the cosmoline? I've seen firearems still packed in cosmoline---I don't envy your chore of cleaning it, but you certainly know where that rifle has been (& perhaps where it hasn't). [Excuse me...I have been told that I have an extraordinary grasp for the obvious...but I'll risk displaying it again anyway...in all probability, the gun has neve fired!!!!] Great find. A number of Russian women made good use of that rifle in the "Great Patriotic War."--Patrice :cool:

I'm waiting for Wrencher to chime in here...this is her 'thing'.

wrencher
09-26-2010, 18:40
Well......have you taken it to the range yet????
It is a chore to get the cosmoline off of these things sometimes.
I love mosins, have a few:whistling: Recoil can be substantial, but with the proper shoulder pad, (or proper reloads), they are pleasant, historical rifles to shoot.
Ludmila Pavlichenko and Nina Lobkovskaya were both Russian women snipers who each had hundreds of documented kills against the German aggressors.
You are in good company with that rifle.
Many of mine are accurate as heck, and draw a crowd at the range to see "what old POS is wrencher shooting today".:cool:
They reek of history.
We need a range report...:supergrin:

MrsKitty
09-27-2010, 19:31
Buy one!


I really don't need any encouragement... :supergrin:

LilWolfess
09-27-2010, 22:08
It is finally back together, with not quiiiiite all the cosmoline out of the stock yet. It is, however, good enough for me to handle without feeling like I need to wipe my hands every three seconds. No range report beings as I have continued to bank as many work hours as possible. I am biding my time.

There's a slight chance that I will be able to try it out tomorrow during lunch break at work, but that may or may not happen depending on weather/time/if I can still function. Welding shop hours aren't particularly gentle for someone with my diminutive stature and all the heavy pushing/lifting/moving/everything else that we do (I do everything but weld there).

The gun has most certainly been fired, sorry to disappoint Patrice, but it is well worn. I will get pictures posted eventually with things all back together, but my time is really quite limited for internet time. I am actually liking the way it looks being not in pristine condition. The stock is worn where the barrel rings have been slid back and forth quite a few times, there are scratches and nicks and stampings everywhere.

I really wish it could talk, even if it only told a tale of sitting around in the corner of some Soviet farmboy's house collecting dust.

sawgrass
09-28-2010, 08:01
It is finally back together, with not quiiiiite all the cosmoline out of the stock yet. It is, however, good enough for me to handle without feeling like I need to wipe my hands every three seconds. No range report beings as I have continued to bank as many work hours as possible. I am biding my time.

There's a slight chance that I will be able to try it out tomorrow during lunch break at work, but that may or may not happen depending on weather/time/if I can still function. Welding shop hours aren't particularly gentle for someone with my diminutive stature and all the heavy pushing/lifting/moving/everything else that we do (I do everything but weld there).

The gun has most certainly been fired, sorry to disappoint Patrice, but it is well worn. I will get pictures posted eventually with things all back together, but my time is really quite limited for internet time. I am actually liking the way it looks being not in pristine condition. The stock is worn where the barrel rings have been slid back and forth quite a few times, there are scratches and nicks and stampings everywhere.

I really wish it could talk, even if it only told a tale of sitting around in the corner of some Soviet farmboy's house collecting dust.

I would like to hear more about your shop, if you feel like talking about it.
I began my career in my early 20's as a high pressure welder.

LilW, they were rearsenaled at some point and packed in grease for the next
time. The Russian's invaded Finland in 1939. You gun would have been 'new'
then. Who knows? If you put up pics of the stock and the other various
markings we might be able to tell you more about it.

There's a movie called "The Winter War", about the invasion of Finland.
You know you're a nut when you stand several milsurp rifles about the
room when you watch these types of movies.:whistling:

The offer stands, for a 100 rounds of Czech training ammo, for your gun.
Free of charge, just let me know. It warms my heart for a young woman
to be excited over a 1938 Mosin.

MrsKitty
09-28-2010, 19:37
I really wish it could talk, even if it only told a tale of sitting around in the corner of some Soviet farmboy's house collecting dust.

That's exactly what I think every time I look at my M44. :)

m2hmghb
09-30-2010, 04:45
I hope you don't mind if a guy posts here :whistling:


Some options for recoil: http://www.amazon.com/Mosin-Nagant-Rubber-Recoil-Butt/dp/B001HIT1UO/ref=sr_1_3?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285842726&sr=8-3

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#recoil%20shield____-_1-2-4_8-16-32


If you reload you can make some light target loads that are easy on the shoulder.


As for the stock you have some options. You can use denatured alcohol, which will dissolve the shellac, mineral spirits which may harm the shellac, one of the degreasers(purple power etc), put it in a trashbag in a warm spot (a car for instance) or buy a cheap new stock. No matter what you do chances are you will have cosmoline leach out of the stock. You can try to apply a polyurethane finish and it may stick, but it will not look original at all. http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Ria-Mosin-Nagant-s/153.htm
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777174

The trigger can be improved as well. I don't tell anyone how I do mine because of liability, but there are options. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=559350 is one option, there are a couple other aftermarket triggers out as well. If the slack feel of the trigger annoys you you can buy a little coil spring that fits in it and it will put a slight amount of pressure on the trigger so it isnt slack but doesnt add to the trigger pull.


The Nagant can talk. The proof marks are it's voice, doesnt speak much, but some is better then none. http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/mosin_nagant_markings.asp

A word for the wise, always shoot light ball ammunition, 147-150 grain. The recoil goes up with the bullet weight. Military surplus is corrosive ammunition and has to be cleaned properly so it doesnt cause rusting due to the corrosive salts in the primer.

Good luck, and enjoy!

GIockGuy24
09-30-2010, 12:26
If it was packed in cosmoline it may be a rebuilt one. Some of them had the bolt replaced but not properly fitted. You'll recognize these by the bolt being hard to open, even with an empty chamber. The cause is the notch is left squared off instead of being angled or rounded for easy operation. If it opens easily then it should be fine. I'll try to find my pics of the cause and cure of the hard opening rebuilt ones and how a properly fitted one should look. This test for it is that it's hard to open the bolt with the action not cocked. See how easy or hard the bolt opens when rifle is not cocked.

LilWolfess
09-30-2010, 18:49
Well, here's a brief range report.

280z and I took it out during lunch break today, since it was prettymuch awesome outside. Before we did this, we managed to shoot up a few clays too, this having been in the plans almost all week. Then Armyboy (my dude) showed up with a pair of water filled bottles for targets. It was time to see just what this thing had to say for itself.

I loaded a few rounds up, made sure things were clear, then sat down to take my first shot. I figured I'd be closer to the ground just in case things got exciting and knocked me over. Well, that was maybe a lie. I mostly needed to put my elbows on my knees since the thing is so goshdarn long and heavy. After lining things up (barely) I gave an almighty yank on the trigger and gave a huge flinch. I didn't pull far enough. That was a little embarrassing, but more funny than humiliating especially since I had given a pre-emptive "OW", so we all laughed.

Edit: I did get that bottle after a couple more shots, and it was my first shot standing.

The real deal actually did hurt, but not as badly as I figured it would. You all may call me a little pansy, but I'm going to roll with the excuse that I have extremely bad and worn shoulder joints. I missed the bottle too, which was a bummer, but the maiden shot was out of the way. There was more laughter (myself included) because of how far I "moved" from the recoil. Then I handed it over for the next person to try, because I had to rearrange my shoulder bits back into place.

We all had a tough time hitting things so far. And there were two occasions where the bullets weren't chambered when the bolt was pushed forwards. I am figuring some oiling (a lot of oiling) should take care of things?

GIockGuy24
09-30-2010, 20:11
Well, here's a brief range report.

280z and I took it out during lunch break today, since it was prettymuch awesome outside. Before we did this, we managed to shoot up a few clays too, this having been in the plans almost all week. Then Armyboy (my dude) showed up with a pair of water filled bottles for targets. It was time to see just what this thing had to say for itself.

I loaded a few rounds up, made sure things were clear, then sat down to take my first shot. I figured I'd be closer to the ground just in case things got exciting and knocked me over. Well, that was maybe a lie. I mostly needed to put my elbows on my knees since the thing is so goshdarn long and heavy. After lining things up (barely) I gave an almighty yank on the trigger and gave a huge flinch. I didn't pull far enough. That was a little embarrassing, but more funny than humiliating especially since I had given a pre-emptive "OW", so we all laughed.

Edit: I did get that bottle after a couple more shots, and it was my first shot standing.

The real deal actually did hurt, but not as badly as I figured it would. You all may call me a little pansy, but I'm going to roll with the excuse that I have extremely bad and worn shoulder joints. I missed the bottle too, which was a bummer, but the maiden shot was out of the way. There was more laughter (myself included) because of how far I "moved" from the recoil. Then I handed it over for the next person to try, because I had to rearrange my shoulder bits back into place.

We all had a tough time hitting things so far. And there were two occasions where the bullets weren't chambered when the bolt was pushed forwards. I am figuring some oiling (a lot of oiling) should take care of things?

You don't want any oil inside the barrel including the chamber while shooting. I add a light coat after cleaning for storage. No oil on the ammunition. The chamber in the barrel of those rifles often gets baked on cosmoline and lacquer from the ammunition. The chamber may still require much more (heavier) cleaning. Which ammunition are you using? Is the bolt fairly easy to open after firing?

LilWolfess
09-30-2010, 20:36
The gun was taken apart, by myself, and cleaned VERY thoroughly, by myself. I maybe didn't mention this. There is NO cosmoline left on any moving parts, just a little bit left that is still seeping out of the stock when things get really warm.

I don't recall writing anything about putting oil the rounds or the inside of the barrel. What in the heck makes you think I was about to do something silly like that?

I used Wolf ammo, non-corrosive.

I only had one problem putting the round in the chamber. The bolt was a little stiff feeling, but I brought it back and gave it a little more of a "slam" instead of a "gentle push" and it worked easily.

GIockGuy24
09-30-2010, 20:57
The gun was taken apart, by myself, and cleaned VERY thoroughly, by myself. I maybe didn't mention this. There is NO cosmoline left on any moving parts, just a little bit left that is still seeping out of the stock when things get really warm.

I don't recall writing anything about putting oil the rounds or the inside of the barrel. What in the heck makes you think I was about to do something silly like that?

I used Wolf ammo, non-corrosive.

I only had one problem putting the round in the chamber. The bolt was a little stiff feeling, but I brought it back and gave it a little more of a "slam" instead of a "gentle push" and it worked easily.

If it became more difficult to chamber rounds after firing a few rounds the coating on Wolf ammo can harden in the chamber. Not all Wolf ammo is coated. There is some small variation in the cartridge rim thickness between military and commercial ammunition. Is it just getting the round from the magazine difficult or is it difficult to close the bolt on the case rim? In other words, how far along is it in the feeding cycle that it feels a bit difficult? Does the action feel normal opening the bolt after firing? This has been one of the biggest issues with these rifles if they were rebuilt. If your rifle opens normally after firing then it sounds like one of the good ones. Some of the rebuilds may have other issues though.

wrencher
09-30-2010, 21:22
Good for you, Lilwolfess, for getting your Mosin out for some playtime.:cool:
Practice will get you more comfortable with the gun, and probably decrease any issues you have had with it.
These old Mosin rifles like the bolts worked with authority, mine seem like they have fewer issues when run hard.
If you have continued issues with the bolt picking up a new round from the magazine, check the interrupter, that's the springy thing on the left side of the receiver at the top of the magazine. Sometimes they get sticky, or the stock binds them and it can cause the problem you describe.
Carry on!:thumbsup:

LilWolfess
09-30-2010, 22:00
If it became more difficult to chamber rounds after firing a few rounds the coating on Wolf ammo can harden in the chamber. Not all Wolf ammo is coated. There is some small variation in the cartridge rim thickness between military and commercial ammunition. Is it just getting the round from the magazine difficult or is it difficult to close the bolt on the case rim? In other words, how far along is it in the feeding cycle that it feels a bit difficult? Does the action feel normal opening the bolt after firing? This has been one of the biggest issues with these rifles if they were rebuilt. If your rifle opens normally after firing then it sounds like one of the good ones. Some of the rebuilds may have other issues though.

The ammo I was using was not lacquered. The issue seemed to be that the bullet was being missed as the bolt was going forwards. No real resistance so that if you weren't watching, you wouldn't have known that there was no round in the chamber when you had put the bolt forward. I am trying to remember whether it was tough opening or closing the bolt. One had difficulty closing the bolt, but that was because he'd put the rounds in the magazine incorrectly.

"Authority" is the word I was looking for, thanks Wrencher for that - this one did seem to respond better if you didn't do things gently

deathpriest
10-01-2010, 09:17
I only had one problem putting the round in the chamber. The bolt was a little stiff feeling, but I brought it back and gave it a little more of a "slam" instead of a "gentle push" and it worked easily.
Congratulations Miss LilWolfess! Great toy. I got one a few weeks ago and took it for a date last week. Brown Bear was for lunch :) I did experienced the feeding issue you mention and like you, I just rode it a little harder and showed it who's the boss;) I shot mine from the sand bag, mostly, and still bothered me and I am 190# 5'11". From the bag the thing was able to hit bulls eyes at 50 yards but, standing I was not so good. After the date I took it apart and easy off the heck out of it, wiped the steel it with LCP, wiped the wood with wood oil and then lube it where required. Looks nice now :) I like the kicker and looking forward for a second date.

280Z
10-01-2010, 17:12
Welding shop hours aren't particularly gentle for someone with my diminutive stature and all the heavy pushing/lifting/moving/everything else that we do (I do everything but weld there).


Oh pushsaw... We give you one more temporary task and you call it everything? Pretty big words for the lady who hasn't even picked up a grinder yet. When you can setup the CNC plasma cutter you will be up to preforming two different tasks at work, right now you are at about one and a quarter tasks....:tongueout:

Anyway, That mosin is a really fun gun to shoot but as Lilwolfess stated we are not so good with the open sights. More practice is in order if she lets me shoot it. I guess I could always pick up my own.. We will get some pictures next time I promise.

sawgrass
10-01-2010, 17:23
Oh pushsaw... We give you one more temporary task and you call it everything? Pretty big words for the lady who hasn't even picked up a grinder yet. When you can setup the CNC plasma cutter you will be up to preforming two different tasks at work, right now you are at about one and a quarter tasks....:tongueout:

Anyway, That mosin is a really fun gun to shoot but as Lilwolfess stated we are not so good with the open sights. More practice is in order if she lets me shoot it. I guess I could always pick up my own.. We will get some pictures next time I promise.

Be a nice Uncle and teach her how to weld.:tongueout:

WTH "we" are not so good with the open sights. Did it take you both to hold
and shoot it?:faint:

I'm just messing with you guys. It's always fun to work with old guns.
Pics would be great, and we can see if she is willing to tell any of her story.
Two shows at 'your' state fairgrounds this weekend! Maybe a road trip is in
order.

280Z
10-01-2010, 17:47
Be a nice Uncle and teach her how to weld.:tongueout:

WTH "we" are not so good with the open sights. Did it take you both to hold
and shoot it?:faint:

I'm just messing with you guys. It's always fun to work with old guns.
Pics would be great, and we can see if she is willing to tell any of her story.
Two shows at 'your' state fairgrounds this weekend! Maybe a road trip is in
order.


Ok, internet house cleaning time!

I am Lilwolfess's brother.

We work at our uncle's welding shop, I sometimes am her supervisor, sometimes.

I expect to be teaching her to weld in the future but it might be a few months I don't know. Depends on what the boss says.

I guess I used the word "we" since there were a total of four of us taking turns shooting the gun and "we" meaning "all of us" were not doing as well as we would have liked:crying: But I was the first one to score a hit...

This weekend is the beginning of beet harvest and Lilwolfess is running the topper for a local farmer (she started a 16hr shift earlier today) and I am on standby to run pull tractor if it rains so I don't know if anything would work out to well.:dunno:

sawgrass
10-01-2010, 18:01
Ok, internet house cleaning time!

I am Lilwolfess's brother.

We work at our uncle's welding shop, I sometimes am her supervisor, sometimes.

I expect to be teaching her to weld in the future but it might be a few months I don't know. Depends on what the boss says.

I guess I used the word "we" since there were a total of four of us taking turns shooting the gun and "we" meaning "all of us" were not doing as well as we would have liked:crying: But I was the first one to score a hit...

This weekend is the beginning of beet harvest and Lilwolfess is running the topper for a local farmer (she started a 16hr shift earlier today) and I am on standby to run pull tractor if it rains so I don't know if anything would work out to well.:dunno:

That's very cool. Hi brother 280Z:wavey: Good luck with the harvest. I golfed
today and I wondered how soon it will snow. It was windy, rainy and cold.
I temporarily lost my ball in leaves that were coming down in waves. Maybe
we will have "safe" early ice!! Yipee!!

LilWolfess
10-02-2010, 13:41
Ok, internet house cleaning time!

I am Lilwolfess's brother.

We work at our uncle's welding shop, I sometimes am her supervisor, sometimes.

I expect to be teaching her to weld in the future but it might be a few months I don't know. Depends on what the boss says.

Thanks for the clarifying this to them. Currently, my welding isn't going to make a big difference in production.

I think 280z was trying to say he was superman or something with how much work he says he does, which is a lot! :supergrin:

I guess I used the word "we" since there were a total of four of us taking turns shooting the gun and "we" meaning "all of us" were not doing as well as we would have liked:crying: But I was the first one to score a hit...
I See what you did there!

This weekend is the beginning of beet harvest and Lilwolfess is running the topper for a local farmer (she started a 16hr shift earlier today) and I am on standby to run pull tractor if it rains so I don't know if anything would work out to well.:dunno:

There is no chance of making it down to that state fair for myself. My bosses put my schedule down to 13 hours, which I was glad for. I did 15 last night and things got pretty yucky when my tractor decided to produce heat only sporadically. It was about 30 degrees and I wasn't quite dressed for it to be that cold. So long as the weather cooperates, which it is, we (the farmers) will be running about 24/7 until all of the contracted beets are out of the ground.

After that, I'm sure we'll (280z and I and probably some company) do some more Mosin shooting. It will be fun!

m2hmghb
10-03-2010, 09:34
You know the correct way to load the magazine right? The rim of the top cartridge has to be in front of the rim below it. If the rim is behind the rim of the cartridge below it will catch when you go to slam the bolt home and instead of one round trying to feed two rounds will try to feed.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/ammo_section.htm

If you use stripper clips put a dab of nail polish on the side that faces down, that way you can tell at a glance which way it goes.


You do NOT want to be slow and smooth with the Mosin, you want hard and fast. The rifle was made to be used by peasants, it will deal with you easily. The most common problem I've found with nagants is the interuptor ejector, the spring loses tension over time. It's not a big deal to replace, but I don't think that's your issue. If you treat a Nagant like a Mauser you will have issues.

Good luck and enjoy shooting!