Law enforcement only ammo [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Stinger260
09-22-2010, 11:29
I went to a auction last night and they had a large lot of 38+P, 357, & 9mm ammo. Most of the 9mm ammo said law enforcement use only on the box. What is the difference in this ammo and store bought ammo. Most of this was Winchester and Federal Hydra-shok. Some of the boxes had dates on them from the early 90's.

JBP55
09-22-2010, 12:45
The difference is you can buy newer and better ammunition than Hydra Shok on line.
Gold Dot, HST, Ranger T, PDX1.

Stinger260
09-22-2010, 15:09
Thats what thought. I bought 180 rounds of 38 +P for $50.00 The 9mm went way to high in IMO.

fsqridah
09-22-2010, 15:18
The difference between ammo boxes labeled "personal protection" or "personal defense" and ammo boxes labeled "law enforcement ammunition" or "duty ammunition" is the round count. 20 rounds for the civilian boxes, 50 rounds for the LE boxes. Unless they're different product lines, they're the same. The Speer Gold Dots in the black/gold boxes labeled "personal protection" are no different than the Gold Dots in the larger black/gold boxes labeled "duty ammunition". And nothing is "law enforcement only." There isn't a load out there that's used by police that can't be had by civilians. The closest thing is the Ranger T and HST, and if you can't get them it's because of availability issues.

And yes, Hydra-shoks are crap. Not sure why countless LE agencies still carry them.

Daryl in Az
09-22-2010, 16:06
And yes, Hydra-shoks are crap. Not sure why countless LE agencies still carry them.


I shot a couple of javalinas with .40 cal hydra-shoks. They each flopped over the instant they were hit.

I know there's better ammunition available now, but the hydra-shoks aren't all that bad.

If the price was reasonable, I'd shoot 'em.

JBP55
09-22-2010, 16:19
I like this.

fsqridah
09-22-2010, 16:29
I shot a couple of javalinas with .40 cal hydra-shoks. They each flopped over the instant they were hit.

I know there's better ammunition available now, but the hydra-shoks aren't all that bad.

If the price was reasonable, I'd shoot 'em.

That's funny that you brought that up. Last deer season, using a .270, I brought down a 150-pound doe that wouldn't die. The first shot literally gutted her, the second shot turned her heart into a blob of jello, and the third shot went through her neck about halfway down and was the round that finally put her on the ground. Once we got to her, she was still trying to get up. My friend was carrying a Kimber Custom TLE II with 230gr reduced recoil Hydra-shoks and put two rounds into her upper neck to dispatch her. When I skinned her, I found both bullets about 2" deep into the muscle, fully expanded.

I think the Hydra-shoks seem to do well against animals with fur and hide, but not against clothing.

sciolist
09-22-2010, 17:29
Back to the question, though, some manufacturers choose to restrict sales of some of their products to LE - so that is the difference.

rushur
09-22-2010, 17:36
230gr reduced recoil Hydra-shoks and put two rounds into her upper neck to dispatch her. When I skinned her, I found both bullets about 2" deep into the muscle, fully expanded.

I think the Hydra-shoks seem to do well against animals with fur and hide, but not against clothing.

Only 2" of penetration?

Daryl in Az
09-22-2010, 17:48
That's funny that you brought that up. Last deer season, using a .270, I brought down a 150-pound doe that wouldn't die. The first shot literally gutted her, the second shot turned her heart into a blob of jello, and the third shot went through her neck about halfway down and was the round that finally put her on the ground. Once we got to her, she was still trying to get up. My friend was carrying a Kimber Custom TLE II with 230gr reduced recoil Hydra-shoks and put two rounds into her upper neck to dispatch her. When I skinned her, I found both bullets about 2" deep into the muscle, fully expanded.

I think the Hydra-shoks seem to do well against animals with fur and hide, but not against clothing.

Interesting. Mine weren't "reduced recoil" loads, but instead were 155 grain .40 S&W loads. One shot through both front shoulders of a javalina and exited. The other was quartering from behind the close-side shoulder, and exited through the off-side shoulder.

It's interesting to compare the results of the two loads though. I've often wondered at the effectiveness of reduced recoil loads, but I think I'll stay with the full powered stuff. :)

There are certainly better bullets now, but the hydra-shoks were a vast improvement over what I remember having for JHP's in the 80's.

Daryl

fsqridah
09-22-2010, 21:33
Only 2" of penetration?

Yep. I'm pretty sure they were 230gr...they might've been the 165gr loading. Anyway, they were reduced recoil. Impressive expansion, but they didn't get anywhere.

Interesting. Mine weren't "reduced recoil" loads, but instead were 155 grain .40 S&W loads. One shot through both front shoulders of a javalina and exited. The other was quartering from behind the close-side shoulder, and exited through the off-side shoulder.

It's interesting to compare the results of the two loads though. I've often wondered at the effectiveness of reduced recoil loads, but I think I'll stay with the full powered stuff. :)

There are certainly better bullets now, but the hydra-shoks were a vast improvement over what I remember having for JHP's in the 80's.

Daryl

I would say neither of your bullets expanded, which for your purpose at the time was a good thing. I think any hollowpoint would resist clogging very effectively if the cavity was plugged with a material that was slightly viscous, or similar to the Hornady FTX material. I meant to try that but when I mentioned it on the forum I got raked over the coals. Some insisted that "modifying" the bullets would get used against me in court.

Glockbuster
09-23-2010, 08:36
The difference between ammo boxes labeled "personal protection" or "personal defense" and ammo boxes labeled "law enforcement ammunition" or "duty ammunition" is the round count. 20 rounds for the civilian boxes, 50 rounds for the LE boxes. Unless they're different product lines, they're the same. The Speer Gold Dots in the black/gold boxes labeled "personal protection" are no different than the Gold Dots in the larger black/gold boxes labeled "duty ammunition". And nothing is "law enforcement only." There isn't a load out there that's used by police that can't be had by civilians. The closest thing is the Ranger T and HST, and if you can't get them it's because of availability issues.

And yes, Hydra-shoks are crap. Not sure why countless LE agencies still carry them.

I wouldn't call them crap. I'll admit the HST, Ranger T +P+ and other modern designs are much better, and will open up more reliably, but the Hydrashocks are good and were among the best in their own time.

fsqridah
09-23-2010, 19:45
I wouldn't call them crap. I'll admit the HST, Ranger T +P+ and other modern designs are much better, and will open up more reliably, but the Hydrashocks are good and were among the best in their own time.

Unless you're up against a naked felon, they act like FMJs. They probably have the highest expansion failure rate of any hollowpoint on the market. I'd say they're about even with Montana Golds. I guess it doesn't matter too much with a .45, but when you drop down to the smaller calibers, overpenetration is a real issue.

ColCol
09-26-2010, 13:37
I like this.

Good grief!!!:shocked: I'd have to get a loan from the bank to house that much factory ammo.

JBP55
09-26-2010, 14:38
Range ammunition.

G23c
09-26-2010, 17:06
Range ammunition.

nice, how are you set for SD?