Will a Mossberg 505 pump 410 make a effective home defense shotgun?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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New York Hunter
09-23-2010, 10:33
I have a Mossberg 505 Youth (12" LOP, 21" barrel) Pump Shotgun in 410. and a Remington 870 Jr. 20 ga. (12" LOP, 21" barrel). My wife didn't really like the recoil of the 20 ga. last time she shot it. However next time we go to the range we're going to bring both shotguns.

If she can handle 10 to 15 practice rounds though the 20 ga., I'll work with her every few weeks so she can operate it in her sleep. However, if she can't take 10 to 15 round of 20 ga., I'd like to woork with her with the 410. How effective can a 410 be for a inside the house home defense shotgun gun with a maximun range of 30 FEET or so? What type of loads should I be looking to get for the 410? Can a 410 shotgun with a 21" barrel be effective within the short range she'll need to use it in?

Thanks, NYH1!

17119jfkioe
09-23-2010, 10:35
simple answer, no:wavey:

aippi
09-23-2010, 10:54
Yes, it would be effective. If that is the weapon she can most effectively deploy then that is the one she should use. There are several kinds of shot loads that would be effective aslo. There is bucshot for the .410 as they simply stack the pellets in the shell.

method
09-23-2010, 16:04
simple answer, no:wavey:

Simple answer is actually yes, with slugs or buckshot. 20 gauge would be preferable, but the .410 would be plenty effective with said ammo at room distances.

flagg
09-23-2010, 16:44
it's a shotgun. I think it would perform near perfect in any situation. even a 410

if she's comfortable with it, then it's perfect!

Jeepnik
09-23-2010, 17:02
Ahh, my favorite type of question. Simply put, yes. With either slugs or buck shot, it is more than sufficient. It, als has the advantage of very little recoil, which makes it great for smaller statured folks. The thing that amazes me is that folks will say a .38 spl is fine for HD, yet scoff at a .410. A slug from a .410 has more energy, and being soft lead will open up nicely. Oh by the way, deer have been taken with the .410.

GlocknSpiehl
09-23-2010, 19:51
There is the new Winchester PDX 1 shotshell for .410 that has 3 copper disks and 10 copper BB's in it. It is marketed for the Taurus Judge, but might be ok for a home shotgun. I have a .410 Dbl Barrel and have fired lead slugs out of it. I think it would be adequate for HD.

What's the old saying? "Better the .32 in your pocket than the .45 in your dresser"

New York Hunter
09-23-2010, 22:10
Thanks guys. Like I said, we're gonna take both to the range next time we go. Obviously I'd like her to be able to use the 20 ga. However, if it's still to much for her to handle and , I'd rather she get as comfortable with the 410 as possible. I'm going to try to get some light trap loads for the 20 ga. We'll see how that go's.

Spiffums
09-24-2010, 07:15
My 500 has a bad habit of wanting to kick out 2 shells from the tube when I work the slide fast. While its annoying when rabbit or squirrel hunting, I'd make sure yours didn't develop this problem before I trusted my life to it.

MrMurphy
09-24-2010, 09:06
It wouldn't be my first choice. But if it's what she can shoot.....find a good load. Look into low recoil rounds for the 20ga if they exist, and a good recoil pad.

Either that or a good 9mm pistol.

A guy up in Alaska apparently thought coyotes/wolves etc were messing around with his animals and went looking with a .410 one night. He ran into a bear and killed it with a headshot. He was exceedingly lucky not to end up as Bear Chow but the .410 "can" be lethal if you put it in the right spot.

GlocknSpiehl
09-24-2010, 09:43
If you are trying out things with your wife, you may want to consider having a nice recoil absorber for her. You can get at Bass Pro those gel shoulder protectors for her to use. That way it doesn't feel like the shotgun is beating her up the 1st few times she fires it.

It's the same principle as not letting a nervous newbi fire a 454 Casul as the 1st gun they ever shoot!

1 old 0311
09-24-2010, 14:37
Did you think of just using a recoil pad on he stock?

vafish
09-25-2010, 16:56
If you are trying out things with your wife, you may want to consider having a nice recoil absorber for her. You can get at Bass Pro those gel shoulder protectors for her to use. That way it doesn't feel like the shotgun is beating her up the 1st few times she fires it.

It's the same principle as not letting a nervous newbi fire a 454 Casul as the 1st gun they ever shoot!

And have her put the gel pad UNDER her bra strap. According the some of the women I have taught to shoot it makes a huge difference.

Caver 60
09-28-2010, 23:05
I didn't see where you mentioned how much shooting experience she has or what type of ammo you were loading the 20 gage with the first time out. But I definitely like the idea of getting light skeet or trap loads for the 20 gage next time.

Sounds like she's not an experienced shooter, and I don't know what kind of ammo you were using last time, but start her on the lightest 20 gage loads you can find. Unless she's unusually small she should be able to handle light 20 gage loads. Also be sure she has good hearing protection.

She probably needs to learn to handle lighter loads, before moving on to magnum loads. If she learns to handle light loads well, that's find. She really doesn't need to fire a steady diet of magnum slug or buckshot loads all the time. If she ever has to use it for real, I doubt she'll notice the magnum loads.

taurusfan
09-29-2010, 10:14
.410 is more than capable of stopping a Man sized target at 10yds. The new HD ammo (PDX) is good but at 10yds you should pattern it. At less than 30ft (avg personal defense shot is MUCH closer) Even #4 birdshot at factory loads (1200fps in bismuth) is going to be lethal to a person that isnt wearing heavy layered clothing especially when backed up by a 1/5th oz slug. The 20ga would be better, but, if she can quickly and confidently wield the .410 dont be afraid to use it.

Also, mossberg markets a .410 model 500 as a Home Defender.

Foxtrotx1
09-29-2010, 10:30
.410 is more than capable of stopping a Man sized target at 10yds. The new HD ammo (PDX) is good but at 10yds you should pattern it. At less than 30ft (avg personal defense shot is MUCH closer) Even #4 birdshot at factory loads (1200fps in bismuth) is going to be lethal to a person that isnt wearing heavy layered clothing especially when backed up by a 1/5th oz slug. The 20ga would be better, but, if she can quickly and confidently wield the .410 dont be afraid to use it.

Also, mossberg markets a .410 model 500 as a Home Defender.

Birdshot out of a 12 gauge at close range let alone a .410 has extremely questionable lethality. The tiny projectiles have very little momentum. you might get an inch of penetration.

Thunderbolt56
09-29-2010, 11:37
.410 is a wicked little HD weapon with the right loads...period. Personally, I really like the 3 pellets of 000 buckshot.

Big A
09-29-2010, 13:45
As long as she knows where to put the shots on target then .410 should be plenty lethal...

taurusfan
09-29-2010, 14:47
Birdshot out of a 12 gauge at close range let alone a .410 has extremely questionable lethality. The tiny projectiles have very little momentum. you might get an inch of penetration.

I have seen 3 close range (<8yds) shotgun GSW's (none were 12ga) 2 were fatal (one birdshot one buckshot), one was not (buckshot), but ended the threat. One of the fatal shots had the wad stuck in the victim's abdomen from a 20ga.

Gauge has little to do with it. The greatest difference from gauge to gauge is the payload, many shells share velocities and since each bb is its own projectile the energy is the same. The lethality (of birdshot) comes from multiple pellet strikes in a confined area so a full or tighter choke would be preferred.

Disclaimer: 3BUCK AND SLUGS WOULD BE BEST Additionally, I am not denying the fact that MANY sub gauge loads are lower powered. I am only saying that if you look around you can find similar load velocities/shot size.

Caver 60
09-30-2010, 08:41
I haven't owned or shot a 410 in about 50 years. I had one way back then and I know there have been improvements in ammo today. But, far as I'm concerned, the 410 is the most useless shotgun ever made.

That said, why don't you get some of the hottest 410 ammo you can find and compare the felt recoil from the hot 410 loads to the recoil from a light 20 load. Bet you won't feel much difference on your shoulder. In fact the hot 410 may hit you harder. JMO.

taurusfan
09-30-2010, 17:57
In fact the hot 410 may hit you harder


It wont even be close. load weight increases recoil more than speed.

FH Alum
10-01-2010, 17:18
.410 is awesome!! NOT USELESS, can't tell you how many rattlesnakes, jacks etc. my grandpas old break action .410 has killed the last 80+ years it's been in the family. I have personally taken a ton of game with it. I think it's the best grouse gun-less pellets to pick out of the meat etc. etc. etc.

As far as protection 3 .38 call projectiles at a good velocity is far from weak. I carry a G19 with confidence, the .410 is much more powerful. Is it a 12 ga? no, but not much can compare to the ultimate fight stopper.

I have seriously thought about the Taurus Circuit Judge, the stocked version of the judge revolver. It's very cool-would be an epic snake gun. 5 rounds of rapid fire .410 loaded with 000 is 15 projectiles for bigger critters. Can't think of too many social situations that wouldn't be good for. My mom has arthritis and the gun she can handle the easiest is a break open .410 with an extended hammer spur. The above mentioned circuit judge may end up under the x-mas tree for her this year as it loads like a revolver, easy for weak hands. Low recoil for a senior.

Having said that, I would grab one of my 12ga. for duty. Aguila (SP?) the Mexican ammo company makes some good low recoil rounds for 12 and 20 ga.

Burncycle
10-03-2010, 23:44
Bottom line,

Buckshot in .410 will penetrate more than 12 inches*, and you get between 3-5 pellets depending on the load (000 buck). That's five individual wound tracks per shot, and five chances of hitting something vital per shot.

So yes, a .410 is plenty effective. Not as effective as a 20 or 12, but it will do the job just fine if that's what you have.

Skip birdshot, and (in my personal opinion) skip slugs (in this caliber).

*(This is assuming an actual shotgun, not a .410 pistol, where the barrel is too short to achieve sufficient velocity to penetrate deeply enough for defense with buckshot)

Is it an ideal HD weapon? I don't believe so... but so long as you have follow up shots (ie, pump action) I wouldn't feel undergunned.

WoodenPlank
10-04-2010, 00:18
Other folks here mentioned recoil pads for the 20ga, but I would suggest the Knoxx SpecOps stock, as well. The recoil reduction system works WONDERS in those stocks. I have the pure pistol grip for my Moss. 590 (it currently has a full stock installed), I am able to fire full power 2 3/4" slugs from it with one hand, as though it were a pistol. Theres a lot of muzzle rise (compared to a handgun) but felt recoil is almost non-existant. The full stocks are supposed to be equally effective. Combine that with your existing 20ga, and you would have a much more potent system your wife could shoot MUCH more comfortably. Plus, the full stock uses an M4 style adjustable stock to reduce LOP. I believe Mesa Tactical has a similar system, but I have not used one of them personally.

Folsom_Prison
10-04-2010, 21:44
IMO a 410 is better than no gun!!

WoodenPlank
10-05-2010, 15:39
IMO a 410 is better than no gun!!

While this is true, I would have to say (in relation to two-legged problems) that it doesnt beat "no gun" by a lot.

If you do go with a 410, then I would echo what several other folks have said, load it with 000. I still think that the Knoxx stocks would REALLY be worth looking into for your 20. Theyre not cheap ($100 or more) but it gives you adjustable LOP, great recoil dampening, and will give your wife something a LOT more potent to bring to the fight.

vafish
10-06-2010, 09:12
While this is true, I would have to say (in relation to two-legged problems) that it doesnt beat "no gun" by a lot.....


Look at the ballistic specs for a .410 shotgun.

Winchester OOO Buckshot 3" magnum .410 5 pellets at 1135 fps.

That's 1/2 the load and only 100 fps less velocity then a 12 ga 3" magnum OOO buckshot load; And the same velocity as the "Tactical" buckshot loads.

Take a look at .410 slugs. 1/4 ounce soft lead slug (about 110 grains) at 1,800 fps. That's 786 ft lbs of muzzle energy. More then most handguns. About twice the energy of the .40 S+W from a handgun.

Still think the .410 is only a little better then no gun at all?

Is the .410 shotgun the best choice for home defence? No.

Is the 20 ga a better choice then the .410 if the shooter can handle the recoil? Yes

But the .410 is a lot better then no gun at all, especially when loaded with the proper ammunition.

WoodenPlank
10-06-2010, 14:56
Look at the ballistic specs for a .410 shotgun.

Winchester OOO Buckshot 3" magnum .410 5 pellets at 1135 fps.

That's 1/2 the load and only 100 fps less velocity then a 12 ga 3" magnum OOO buckshot load; And the same velocity as the "Tactical" buckshot loads.

Take a look at .410 slugs. 1/4 ounce soft lead slug (about 110 grains) at 1,800 fps. That's 786 ft lbs of muzzle energy. More then most handguns. About twice the energy of the .40 S+W from a handgun.

Still think the .410 is only a little better then no gun at all?

Is the .410 shotgun the best choice for home defence? No.

Is the 20 ga a better choice then the .410 if the shooter can handle the recoil? Yes

But the .410 is a lot better then no gun at all, especially when loaded with the proper ammunition.

My biggest issue with it is the lighter payload. Yeah, it beats a handgun in energy, but you are also giving up magazine capacity and reload speed - two things sorely lacking on most shotguns. If you are going to limit yourself in those areas, then why limit yourself to the small load of a 410?

Again, a 410 CAN be effective, but your margin for error is a lot smaller than with a 20 or a 12.

cyphertext
10-10-2010, 20:58
Like others have said, try a recoil pad. My son did not care for the Mossberg 500 bantam youth 20 gauge the first time he shot it. The pad the comes stock on that gun is hard as a rock. First time at the range to shoot it, he shot it once and was done. This was with 7/8 oz #8 shot. A trip to Walmart and $20 later, the gun was sporting a limbsaver slip on recoil pad. He shot 2 boxes of shells last weekend with no complaints and no problems.