Duplicating the 40 cal Corbon for low cost range practice. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TGT
09-23-2010, 15:57
I'm sure some of you guys out there do what I do; You will handload practice ammunition for your pistol that is close to duplicating the performance of the expensive factory ammo in your carry pistol. At $25-$30 for a 20 round box of Corbons, who can afford to fire off 50-100 rounds of that factory stuff just for practice or to see if your pistol likes it!! This is one reason why I don't like to carry Golden Saber, Hydra Shock, or Winchester Ranger. They don't sell just their bullets alone. Therefore I can't construct inexpensive duplicate practice rounds.

I haven't bought a box of Corbons in years. I still have old notes about my hand loads that duplicated the performance. My question to you guys is this; is Corbon still using Nosler bullets in their 135 grain 40 cal ammo? ...if not, what bullets are they using?

But, I don't need to necessarilly stick with Corbon ammo. If you know of another good .40 cal defense cartridge, then please let me know. I just need to know that whomever is offering high grade defense cartridges, is also offering the same bullets for hand loads, How about Speer or Hornady...... do they still make good .40 cal loaded defense cartridges worth carrying?.....we know that we can always get a hold of their bullets to make practice rounds.

BadAndy
09-23-2010, 19:15
Gold Dots and XTPs are great performers. You can also get Golden Sabers for reloading from Midwayusa.com

Midway also carries the DPX all copper bullets.

NonPCnraRN
09-23-2010, 19:40
Penn Bullets makes 40 cal cast lead bullets to duplicate the weight of most premium bullets. If you load your own then you could duplicate the expensive rounds for practice and just use the premium ammo for SD. http://www.pennbullets.com/40/40-caliber.html

TGT
09-23-2010, 22:44
Penn Bullets makes 40 cal cast lead bullets to duplicate the weight of most premium bullets. If you load your own then you could duplicate the expensive rounds for practice and just use the premium ammo for SD. http://www.pennbullets.com/40/40-caliber.html

But the important aspect that you're overlooking is that when you use the same make bullet in your practice handloads as what you are using for actual carry, you can be sure how reliably your pistol feeds it. Silly me, that I didn't recognize the obvious that Speer Gold-Dot bullets in a choice of weights are exactly the same bullets that is put on their excellent already loaded Gold-Dot Cartridges.

I'm still not sure what bullet Corbon uses in their 135 grain cartridges (Nosler?), or if Hornady XTP's are used in any excellent defense ammo too.....but now it seems obvious that Speer Gold-Dot loaded ammo is a viable candidate for me. From what I've read so far, their 155-165 cartridges are every bit as good if not better then the Corbon's 135grainers I initially liked. A 155 Gold-Dot exiting a short Kahr40 barrel at about 1,100 FPS is impressive stuff.

TGT
09-23-2010, 22:54
Gold Dots and XTPs are great performers. You can also get Golden Sabers for reloading from Midwayusa.com

Midway also carries the DPX all copper bullets.


Thanks for that input. I was not aware that Golden Saber bullets were available seperately. The loaded Golden Saber 165 grain cartridges are rated at 1,150fps. If they are doing even 1,050 FPS out of a short barreled kahr40, then that's worth seriously considering too.

shotgunred
09-23-2010, 22:58
I bought 1k of gold dot bullets last week. I am sure that after I load them they will be almost identical to speers. Cost about 90 percent less.

Glolt20-91
09-24-2010, 01:22
Thanks for that input. I was not aware that Golden Saber bullets were available seperately. The loaded Golden Saber 165 grain cartridges are rated at 1,150fps. If they are doing even 1,050 FPS out of a short barreled kahr40, then that's worth seriously considering too.

Vihtavuori 3N38/Fed primers were pushing 165gr Golden Sabers into the upper 1200s from a 4" Steyr M40-A1, I pulled back to about 1250fps for carry. Beretta M96 (4.9") was getting about 1310fps, Beretta CX4-Storm carbine ~1500fps. 165gr GDs don't hold up well at ~1300fps+.

The Steyr is stout (built on a true .40 frame) and very accurate.

Bob :cowboy:

fredj338
09-24-2010, 09:28
But the important aspect that you're overlooking is that when you use the same make bullet in your practice handloads as what you are using for actual carry, you can be sure how reliably your pistol feeds it. Silly me, that I didn't recognize the obvious that Speer Gold-Dot bullets in a choice of weights are exactly the same bullets that is put on their excellent already loaded Gold-Dot Cartridges.

I'm still not sure what bullet Corbon uses in their 135 grain cartridges (Nosler?), or if Hornady XTP's are used in any excellent defense ammo too.....but now it seems obvious that Speer Gold-Dot loaded ammo is a viable candidate for me. From what I've read so far, their 155-165 cartridges are every bit as good if not better then the Corbon's 135grainers I initially liked. A 155 Gold-Dot exiting a short Kahr40 barrel at about 1,100 FPS is impressive stuff.

IMO, that is NOT why you would load say the Nosler 135gr. You duplicate it so that the recoil & POI are sim. The only way to know that factory ammo works in your gun is shoot it. Ammo manuf do NOT use canister powders, so exact duplication is diff. It's as much about the bullet shape as it is recoil impulse of the load. I am quite happy using a lead bullet of sim weight to replicate my carry loads.
FWIW, the 135gr/40 would not be the best choice. Just not enough bullet mass to insure good penetration thru intermediate obsticles, like a forearm or shoulder mass.:dunno: If you want a cheap 135gr load, the Nosler aren't bad, the Berry's 135grFP will work, but don't push them above 1300fps. AA#7, Longshot & BLueDot, maybe PP will get you there.

BOGE
09-24-2010, 10:57
There isnīt that much difference in POA between makes at CCW distance to make a difference. What IS important is the ability to draw and put lead on target as fast as possible as that is what wins a gunfight (usually). PRACTICE & practice with both eyes open & ignore the sights.

I am assuming by your criteron that you are duplicating a load for CCW.

pant3ra
09-24-2010, 11:02
At $25-$30 for a 20 round box of Corbons, who can afford to fire off 50-100 rounds of that factory stuff just for practice or to see if your pistol likes it!!


I can :supergrin:

ok ok sorry for braggin, just had to say it. :tongueout: :rofl:

TGT
09-24-2010, 11:44
Thanks gents for the input. And Fred, yes I agree with you that a 155 to 165 grain cal bullet is preferable to the 135 gr bullet. While the Kahr's short 3" barrel sacifices some velocity, I think a 155-165gr bullet is still moving fast enough at over 1,050FPS+ for good bullet expansion and stopping power compared to a 135. Right now I'm carrying a 9mm Kahr 115 Corbon, and would still prefer a 40cal in the lowly 135 grain bullet over a 9mm!

As far as simulating cartridge performance like the Remington Golden Saber rounds (for example); all I need to know is that both my simulated hand-loads using Golden saber bullets, and the real Golden Saber cartridges feed through my pistol reliably. I will fire the $25 worth of 20 rounds of the real thing through my pistol first and check POI and chronograph the velocity. If it works without a hitch, then I get to work loading up 100 rounds of ammo that shoot the same POI and nearly the same FPS. I can't remember the last time I fired factory ammo that worked, but couldn't get my hand loads with the same exact bullet to work reliably too.

I compare the real thing against my hand loads side by side and tweak my hand load's powder charge until the recoil feels the same.

fredj338
09-24-2010, 12:49
Thanks gents for the input. And Fred, yes I agree with you that a 155 to 165 grain cal bullet is preferable to the 135 gr bullet. While the Kahr's short 3" barrel sacifices some velocity, I think a 155-165gr bullet is still moving fast enough at over 1,050FPS+ for good bullet expansion and stopping power compared to a 135. Right now I'm carrying a 9mm Kahr 115 Corbon, and would still prefer a 40cal in the lowly 135 grain bullet over a 9mm!

As far as simulating cartridge performance like the Remington Golden Saber rounds (for example); all I need to know is that both my simulated hand-loads using Golden saber bullets, and the real Golden Saber cartridges feed through my pistol reliably. I will fire the $25 worth of 20 rounds of the real thing through my pistol first and check POI and chronograph the velocity. If it works without a hitch, then I get to work loading up 100 rounds of ammo that shoot the same POI and nearly the same FPS. I can't remember the last time I fired factory ammo that worked, but couldn't get my hand loads with the same exact bullet to work reliably too.

I compare the real thing against my hand loads side by side and tweak my hand load's powder charge until the recoil feels the same.
If you have a chronograph, getting a factory duplication load is pretty easy regardless of bullet.
There isnīt that much difference in POA between makes at CCW distance to make a difference. What IS important is the ability to draw and put lead on target as fast as possible as that is what wins a gunfight (usually). PRACTICE & practice with both eyes open & ignore the sights.
Well , yes & no, If one thinks all they have to do is present & press, no sights, shoot until slide lock & reload, well, no wonder so many prefer the high cap 9mm. Sights & POA/POI matter when you have to actually hit your target beyond contact distances. Even though most gunfights occur inside 7yds, they can easily go to well beyond that where your ability to actually hit something @ say 15yds (2 car lengths in a parking lot)may be what wins the fight. If all I get is a foot or half a head @ 15yds, I want to be able to hit it, & I can, & yes, you have to have a gun/ammo combo capable.:dunno:

BOGE
09-24-2010, 13:03
...Well , yes & no, If one thinks all they have to do is present & press, no sights, shoot until slide lock & reload, well, no wonder so many prefer the high cap 9mm. Sights & POA/POI matter when you have to actually hit your target beyond contact distances. Even though most gunfights occur inside 7yds, they can easily go to well beyond that where your ability to actually hit something @ say 15yds (2 car lengths in a parking lot)may be what wins the fight. If all I get is a foot or half a head @ 15yds, I want to be able to hit it, & I can, & yes, you have to have a gun/ammo combo capable.:dunno:


Fred, do you know this for a fact or is it something you`ve read?

cowboy1964
09-24-2010, 14:16
A 50 round box of Gold Dots can be had for around $30, give or take. That's $.60 per round. How much are bulk Gold Dot bullets? Aren't they around $.30 or more? You might save 30-40% by loading them yourself.

fredj338
09-24-2010, 14:43
Fred, do you know this for a fact or is it something you`ve read?
The question is a bit broad. I have seen enough gunfight video to know your ability w/ a pistol to hit what you see is more important than a fast draw & point, & read many more accouts to know aiming is NOT obver rated in a gunfight. Just common sense says distance is your friend & distance implies you better be more than a point & shoot guy. Two historic gunfights come to mindl the BofA robbery & the FBI Miami debacle.:dunno: So if the BG is gonna leave it out to shoot at, I am shooting at it. I can hit a 3" circle on demand out to 15yds, If your gun is not hitting POA/POI, you can't do that.
AS to what, 9mm high cap, yeah, I've been to enough competitions where the hozers come out to play. Hey, I've got 15rds, 2 extra mags & 5 targets, no penalty for a miss, it's hozing time! Yeah been there done that. So maybe narrow the question a bit more.:dunno:

bballer182
09-24-2010, 18:24
I just read this thread about the DT's

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1174877

Doesn't sound like a load that i would want to carry....

NonPCnraRN
09-25-2010, 01:01
For range practice who cares if the lead bullet ammo is exactly like your carry ammo? If it approximates the recoil and accuracy of your carry ammo that is all you need. Penn makes a BBTC 165 gr bullet that duplicates the weight of the Remington Golden Saber. Can you buy 1000 Golden Sabers for $76.00/1000? Another good point is that you won't confuse commercial ammo that you carry for SD with your lead practice rounds. If the bullets use a soft alloy then you might want to use an aftermarket barrel. You can also find fmj truncated cone bullets that are still cheaper to practice with than premium HPs but not as cheap as lead bullets. If you use fmjs you won't need an aftermarket barrel.