Speer LE Gold Dot 115 GR. +P+ [Archive] - Glock Talk

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LarryNC
09-25-2010, 23:18
This stuff says Law Enforcement Use Only. I already know that it is perfectly legal to own and use. I'm only going to be using it in my glocks. I was just wondering if any of you have an opinion about it :supergrin: I have a 17, a 19 and a 17L. I found this ammo at a gun-show today and bought a few boxes of it. Years ago when I bought my 17L, I had just read an article or two about the 17L's velocities using the Cor-Bon ammo and the author suggested that out of the six-inch barrel it was nipping at the heels of .357 Magnum velocity and energy levels. That is the reason that I bought it (the long-slide). I have noticed that a lot of you guys are using the 124 grain stuff these days. I've never used any before. Anyway, I just wanted to get your opinions on the ammo I just bought. I know that the Gold-Dot is a proven bullet. Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

cowboy1964
09-25-2010, 23:37
It's good stuff but I doubt it approaches .357 Magnum energy.

BOGE
09-25-2010, 23:50
It is fantastic CCW ammo and shoots extremely accurate in my Glock. It`s my G19 CCW load.

LarryNC
09-26-2010, 10:08
It is fantastic CCW ammo and shoots extremely accurate in my Glock. It`s my G19 CCW load.

That's good to know. I'll have to give it a try in my 19.

LarryNC
09-26-2010, 10:10
It's good stuff but I doubt it approaches .357 Magnum energy.

I do realize that. You are right. I was just hoping that perhaps out of my 17L it might equal the same energy and velocity figures of the .357 Sig cartridge.

AZBru88
09-26-2010, 10:22
Larry most guys report a 50-100 fps increase in speed out of the 6" barrels over the regular full size barrels. Energy just a little more also. Nether are large enough to make a difference in the real world!

9mmParabellum
09-26-2010, 10:42
I do realize that. You are right. I was just hoping that perhaps out of my 17L it might equal the same energy and velocity figures of the .357 Sig cartridge.

If you want higher FPS then try www.buffalobore.com (http://www.buffalobore.com) their 115gr +P+ out of a 4in bbl which is the G19 1400fps I use their 124gr I get a consistant 1289fps a couple of times 1285 at best its going to cost you for 20rds.

LarryNC
09-26-2010, 10:58
If you want higher FPS then try www.buffalobore.com (http://www.buffalobore.com) their 115gr +P+ out of a 4in bbl which is the G19 1400fps I use their 124gr I get a consistant 1289fps a couple of times 1285 at best its going to cost you for 20rds.

Thank you.

Glolt20-91
09-27-2010, 02:34
I do realize that. You are right. I was just hoping that perhaps out of my 17L it might equal the same energy and velocity figures of the .357 Sig cartridge.

115gr Gold Dots can be bought as components for reloading 9mm/.38Super and .357SIG et al.

The 125gr Gold Dot in either .357SIG or .357mag has the advantage of a shallow hollow cavity vs the 115gr deep cavity design; it's not going to plug up in thick clothing like leather, down or thinsulate etc.

While the 115gr GD may approach .357SIG velocities out of a G17L, the 125gr GD is a better performer by virtue of its design.

I've done an extensive amount of testing between the deep cavity 124gr GD and shallow cavity 125gr GD handloaded to ~1300fps out of a G17; the result is I have several boxes of 124gr GDs that have been laying around the reloading room for about 4-5 years.

l-r, shallow cavity 125gr GDs in 9mm, .38Super and .357mag;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/GoldDot355-357caliber002.jpg

I don't know the design velocity range of the 115gr GD, but this 124gr GD blew up in water bags at only 1268fps;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/124GD1268fps003.jpg

I'd be interested to learn how the 115gr GD ammo performs in milk bottle testing. This 125gr GD, upper 1200s from a G17 penetrated a 1/10" hard steel barrier and exited out the side of #4 bottle, totally destroying #1 bottle;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Barrier125GoldDot9mm-38Super-230-1.jpg

Bob :cowboy:

PersonOfInterest
09-27-2010, 04:02
115gr Gold Dots can be bought as components for reloading 9mm/.38Super and .357SIG et al.

The 125gr Gold Dot in either .357SIG or .357mag has the advantage of a shallow hollow cavity vs the 115gr deep cavity design; it's not going to plug up in thick clothing like leather, down or thinsulate etc.

While the 115gr GD may approach .357SIG velocities out of a G17L, the 125gr GD is a better performer by virtue of its design.

I've done an extensive amount of testing between the deep cavity 124gr GD and shallow cavity 125gr GD handloaded to ~1300fps out of a G17; the result is I have several boxes of 124gr GDs that have been laying around the reloading room for about 4-5 years.

l-r, shallow cavity 125gr GDs in 9mm, .38Super and .357mag;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/GoldDot355-357caliber002.jpg

I don't know the design velocity range of the 115gr GD, but this 124gr GD blew up in water bags at only 1268fps;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/124GD1268fps003.jpg

I'd be interested to learn how the 115gr GD ammo performs in milk bottle testing. This 125gr GD, upper 1200s from a G17 penetrated a 1/10" hard steel barrier and exited out the side of #4 bottle, totally destroying #1 bottle;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Barrier125GoldDot9mm-38Super-230-1.jpg

Bob :cowboy:
Have to agree with Bob on this
now i know rounds such as the Federal 9BPLE (and the equivilant Winchester Round) has a good track record of putting people down - after using handloaded 9mm 115gn's @ 1350fps on medium sized animals (upto 180lbs) it did fail to impress me - sorry but 4" to 5" of penetration on meat and bone and then stopping really dosent fill me with much confidence.
Keep in mind a 124gn XTP @ 1300fps in the 9mm (or safely pushed to 1350fps) has NO problem punching through an animal of similair size's shoulder - turning its lungs,heart ribs into mince then lodging just under the skin on the other side. The 125gn .355/.357 GD is just the same - added to which it can even but pushed to 1600fps and is still able to get good penetration.
The 124gn GD out of the 9mm i havent killed anything with yet but keep in mind its the exact same cavity design as the 115gn (and 147gn) however NYPD loves the speer +P load - but i just cant seem to warm to it after seeing what happened on the goats i shot.
To the OP just keep in mind there is a strong possibilty the 115gn can lack penetration, just one of the many things you need to keep in mind - wouldnt be my first choice.

Glolt20-91
09-28-2010, 00:40
Have to agree with Bob on this
now i know rounds such as the Federal 9BPLE (and the equivilant Winchester Round) has a good track record of putting people down - after using handloaded 9mm 115gn's @ 1350fps on medium sized animals (upto 180lbs) it did fail to impress me - sorry but 4" to 5" of penetration on meat and bone and then stopping really dosent fill me with much confidence.
Keep in mind a 124gn XTP @ 1300fps in the 9mm (or safely pushed to 1350fps) has NO problem punching through an animal of similair size's shoulder - turning its lungs,heart ribs into mince then lodging just under the skin on the other side. The 125gn .355/.357 GD is just the same - added to which it can even but pushed to 1600fps and is still able to get good penetration.
The 124gn GD out of the 9mm i havent killed anything with yet but keep in mind its the exact same cavity design as the 115gn (and 147gn) however NYPD loves the speer +P load - but i just cant seem to warm to it after seeing what happened on the goats i shot.
To the OP just keep in mind there is a strong possibilty the 115gn can lack penetration, just one of the many things you need to keep in mind - wouldnt be my first choice.

Great feedback, thanks for sharing your experiences.

I've found the 124gr XTP blows up/frags somewhere in the upper 1300s to low 1400s. The .355 cal 125gr GD in the low to mid 1400s is just plain wicked, as is the .357 cal 125gr GD mid 1600s.



Bob :cowboy:

PersonOfInterest
09-28-2010, 03:38
Great feedback, thanks for sharing your experiences.

I've found the 124gr XTP blows up/frags somewhere in the upper 1300s to low 1400s. The .355 cal 125gr GD in the low to mid 1400s is just plain wicked, as is the .357 cal 125gr GD mid 1600s.



Bob :cowboy:
Yep so as for the 124gn XTP in .355 its perfect for the 357sig - that being said im in possesion of about 300 factory loaded Hornady that are in fact loaded with 125gn .357cal XTP's! strange but I as you know they are a much stronger projectile - but at the average advertised velocity of 1350fps either projectile is good.

Forget to mention in some other threads, on my last culling trip out west i took down 2 large goats - one a male the other female, the nanny was almost facing me on a 30 degree angle - the shot i made at 15 yards hit her behing the shoulder and exited almost 2/3 along the rib cage on the other side - interesting point is here, the projectile (125gn GD from the Glock 31 doing 1380fps) failed to expand! first time ive seen that happen - i had only read about it on here but it still did its just had the old 357 lightning bolt effect she didnt feel a thing fell straight over and didnt twitch. The other billy took one in the front of the chest and the projectile didnt exit and did its job instantly.

I did see on here before you comment youd never seen one of those shallow cavity GD's to fail to expand - neither had i until July still id prefer the good penetration and solid desgin of it - just a detail i noticed.
Keep in mind that animal weighed about 180lbs id guess thats the better part of 18inches it cut through.

DEADEYEGUY
09-28-2010, 11:31
At one time I had 115gr. +P+, 124gr. +P, and standard pressure 147gr. Gold Dots. I shot them into all kinds of test medium. All were amazingly consistent in opening up. A little difference in penetration. I like the mid range +p's or +P+ ammo. Bit the 115gr. +P+ would sure make a mess of somebody's insides. I have some of the Winchester 115+P+ stored away. The 115gr. +P+ ammo should it's worth in many LEO usages. The heavier bullets are better for shooting through things if you need to to reach the bad guy. But will work fine for most applications.

Glolt20-91
09-28-2010, 16:12
Yep so as for the 124gn XTP in .355 its perfect for the 357sig - that being said im in possesion of about 300 factory loaded Hornady that are in fact loaded with 125gn .357cal XTP's! strange but I as you know they are a much stronger projectile - but at the average advertised velocity of 1350fps either projectile is good.

Forget to mention in some other threads, on my last culling trip out west i took down 2 large goats - one a male the other female, the nanny was almost facing me on a 30 degree angle - the shot i made at 15 yards hit her behing the shoulder and exited almost 2/3 along the rib cage on the other side - interesting point is here, the projectile (125gn GD from the Glock 31 doing 1380fps) failed to expand! first time ive seen that happen - i had only read about it on here but it still did its just had the old 357 lightning bolt effect she didnt feel a thing fell straight over and didnt twitch. The other billy took one in the front of the chest and the projectile didnt exit and did its job instantly.

I did see on here before you comment youd never seen one of those shallow cavity GD's to fail to expand - neither had i until July still id prefer the good penetration and solid desgin of it - just a detail i noticed.
Keep in mind that animal weighed about 180lbs id guess thats the better part of 18inches it cut through.

The 125gr GD failing to expand is an eye opener for sure,

125gr XTP in a .357SIG from Hornady ammo has to be a win-win for you, a .357mag design bullet at mag velocities. The 124gr XTP works very well out of a G17 at upper load range velocities . . . ~1300fps; I'd take that bullet over the 115gr GD.

For those who haven't seen these pics, the .357cal, 125gr XTP holds up well at 1491fps out of a Colt/1911/.38Super, flat shooting, long range accuracy bullet combination.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/38Super125XTP-1491fpstire-bone004.jpg

This bleached out full size range cow leg bone had a very large exit hole, 10 ply semi-truck tire casing was in front of this leg bone.

Bob :cowboy:

PersonOfInterest
09-29-2010, 03:18
The 125gr GD failing to expand is an eye opener for sure,

125gr XTP in a .357SIG from Hornady ammo has to be a win-win for you, a .357mag design bullet at mag velocities. The 124gr XTP works very well out of a G17 at upper load range velocities . . . ~1300fps; I'd take that bullet over the 115gr GD.

For those who haven't seen these pics, the .357cal, 125gr XTP holds up well at 1491fps out of a Colt/1911/.38Super, flat shooting, long range accuracy bullet combination.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/38Super125XTP-1491fpstire-bone004.jpg

This bleached out full size range cow leg bone had a very large exit hole, 10 ply semi-truck tire casing was in front of this leg bone.

Bob :cowboy:
Yeah i was pretty suprised to the 125gn GD fail to open bit it did, i had heard an exprience of an actual shooting on here early on in the year that the same thing happened - i honestly was sceptical until i saw it first hand - but hey for me thats once out of about 60 things ive shot dead where it failed - thats acceptable to me.

I have seen your tests done on the 125gn XTP and i was impressed ive had great results with it too - the XTP is very underated i think - it has an undeserved reputation on here for not being a viable denfensive projectile.

The projectile in the Hornady factory load in 357sig is great - not too sure if id handload them, but i do prefer them to the 124gn this is also due to the OAL they produce.

novaDAK
09-30-2010, 00:47
I'm a firm believer in the current FBI tests and requirements and I realize it might not meet some of those requirements, but one load I'll make an exception for is the Federal 9BPLE, 115gr +P+ JHP. My county PD used it for quite some time and I've never heard a complaint in its effectiveness. One officer I know liked it better than the .40s they switched to a couple years ago.

I don't know how the Speer Gold Dot load compares, but I'd imagine it would have the advantage of not fragmenting as easily due to it's bonded construction and would be better through barriers. Wouldn't know without actually testing it though.

BOGE
09-30-2010, 09:22
I'm a firm believer in the current FBI tests and requirements and I realize it might not meet some of those requirements, but one load I'll make an exception for is the Federal 9BPLE, 115gr +P+ JHP. My county PD used it for quite some time and I've never heard a complaint in its effectiveness. One officer I know liked it better than the .40s they switched to a couple years ago.

I don't know how the Speer Gold Dot load compares, but I'd imagine it would have the advantage of not fragmenting as easily due to it's bonded construction and would be better through barriers. Wouldn't know without actually testing it though.

The Speer 115 gr. +p+ performs almost exactly as does the 124 gr. +p. Both are good rounds. That said, I still carry BPLE in my SIG 228 because it works and is laser like accurate in my SIG. My Glock however, as stated before, likes the Speer 115 gr. +p+.

cowboy1964
09-30-2010, 11:13
I still carry BPLE in my SIG 228 because it works and is laser like accurate in my SIG. My Glock however, as stated before, likes the Speer 115 gr. +p+.

I haven't shot 9BPLE yet but I'm trying to find some. GD 124+P's have always been laser like for me, even from short barrels like the PM9. When I load up 147 HSTs the groups open up considerably. It's very strange.

Austinite
09-30-2010, 13:53
For what it's worth, I've done a quasi-bullet test with the 115 GD +P+. I shot a ~90 live weight axis doe behind the shoulder (it had already been harvested, meat was tainted, I was shooting straight down where it lay) with a 115 GD +P+ and a 147 HST +P. The GD penetrated the entire boileroom and exited. The HST expanded beautifully and lodged under the skin on the off-side. I'm guessing the width of the boilerroom on this critter was around 12" but I didnt measure.

I have no idea which bullet(s) hit rib(s).

Like I said, it ain't scientific, but some may find it interesting.

Tomac
10-04-2010, 07:01
http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
Tomac

Deputydave
10-12-2010, 17:33
This stuff says Law Enforcement Use Only. I already know that it is perfectly legal to own and use. I'm only going to be using it in my glocks. I was just wondering if any of you have an opinion about it :supergrin: I have a 17, a 19 and a 17L. I found this ammo at a gun-show today and bought a few boxes of it. Years ago when I bought my 17L, I had just read an article or two about the 17L's velocities using the Cor-Bon ammo and the author suggested that out of the six-inch barrel it was nipping at the heels of .357 Magnum velocity and energy levels. That is the reason that I bought it (the long-slide). I have noticed that a lot of you guys are using the 124 grain stuff these days. I've never used any before. Anyway, I just wanted to get your opinions on the ammo I just bought. I know that the Gold-Dot is a proven bullet. Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

I spoke to Shawn Dodson many years ago about the 9mm GD 115 +P. He related that it actually performed quite well, routinely reaching around 12 inches in depth and opening up dramatically. He described it as looking like a star fish with the open petals. I suspect that it drives deeper than many 115's since it uses a bonded bullet so the weight is retained. This is a plus.

Although I have complete confidence in the 124 +P since that was our issued round when we used 9mm, I'd have no issue with using this personally.

LarryNC
10-12-2010, 19:06
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has commented in this thread. I received two e-mail notifications this evening and found much more than two comments since my last post. Thank you, to all of you. A great deal of information.

ULVER
10-19-2010, 23:13
Ga. Arms loads a 115gr. Gold Dot to +P+, resulting in 1,300fps. It's good stuff! Several smaller agencies here, use Ga. Arms ammo, because of it's good cost/quality value.
http://georgia-arms.com/new9mmluger115grgolddothollowpointp100pk-1.aspx


While I am sold on the 124gr. +P Gold Dot (from just about anyone!), as the best all-round 9mm carry/duty loading, the 115gr. @ 1,300fps has merit.

The 9mm really became a serious caliber, when it pushed the "Big Three's" 115gr. JHP's, to the (seemingly) magical 1,300fps. Bad guys went down fast & hard! The cops swore by these +P+ 9mm rounds. Cor Bon came along, and gave Joe Q. the option to carry basically what the police carried.

None of these typically penetrated the FBI desired depth, but all were highly acclaimed where it counted: ON THE STREET!

Bonded bullets are a good thing. Especially for law enforcement. Sometimes they have to shoot through stuff. Tough stuff. Like windshields. Bonded = Good!

To me, the "magic" of the 1,300fps velocity, mated with bonded techno-whiz-bang! bullet design, makes for the best of both worlds.

I would feel very well-armed, with this "best of both worlds."

glocknbruce
10-20-2010, 04:14
if i had my Glock loaded with 17 rounds of these "felon-flatners" i would feel very well armed....

nraman
12-14-2010, 18:28
This stuff says Law Enforcement Use Only. I already know that it is perfectly legal to own and use. I'm only going to be using it in my glocks. I was just wondering if any of you have an opinion about it

I think that the reason for the LEO use only is liability.
Guns like the S&W and Kahr are not capable of using +P+. Glocks, Berettas and others love higher pressure ammo.
I think that by marking it as LEO ammo and selling it to LEO they are more comfortable that it will be used in guns that can handle it.
I use it in my Gocks and Berettas but not in my Kahr.

BOGE
12-14-2010, 20:31
...I'd be interested to learn how the 115gr GD ammo performs in milk bottle testing...

The Speer 9mm 115 gr. +p+ GD has a shallow HP. No need to shoot the milk. Was it whole, 2% or skim? :supergrin:

JLui83
12-14-2010, 20:35
I just bought 3 boxes of 50/box of these for my Home Defense. I will be testing 100rounds in my glock factory mag to insure 100% reliability.

BOGE
12-14-2010, 21:10
I just bought 3 boxes of 50/box of these for my Home Defense. I will be testing 100rounds in my glock factory mag to insure 100% reliability.

Just my 2 cents, but if there is any ammo problem with a Glock it manifests itself well within one box. I have NEVER had a Speer HP jam in a Glock or a SIG. The old 200 rd. rule was good for its day, but handguns & ammo have gotten much better. I even think that you need no more than two boxes for a 1911 to prove ammo type reliability today.

Again, that is just my opinion.

JLui83
12-14-2010, 21:40
IT was a good price for the box of 50. I figured I'd test with my new 0-4 Spring in the glock 19. Shouldn't have a problem at ALL with this load.. I can't wait!

I hope and pray I will never have to use it though.

BadAndy
12-16-2010, 13:31
I think that the reason for the LEO use only is liability.
Guns like the S&W and Kahr are not capable of using +P+. Glocks, Berettas and others love higher pressure ammo.
I think that by marking it as LEO ammo and selling it to LEO they are more comfortable that it will be used in guns that can handle it.
I use it in my Gocks and Berettas but not in my Kahr.

My CW9 is quite capable of handling +P+. It feeds 115 gr Nosler JHPs without issue but they shoot low compared to my +P 124 gr GDs and 147gr XTPs.

nraman
12-16-2010, 14:38
My CW9 is quite capable of handling +P+. It feeds 115 gr Nosler JHPs without issue but they shoot low compared to my +P 124 gr GDs and 147gr XTPs.

I must have talked to the wrong person, he told me that none of the Kahrs should be used with +P+.

BadAndy
12-16-2010, 17:36
They're rated to +P but I don't shoot a ton of +P or +P+ through it. Besides, the +P+ 115gr has about the same recoil as 124gr +P.

Which S&W pistols were you referring to?

nraman
12-16-2010, 18:16
They're rated to +P but I don't shoot a ton of +P or +P+ through it. Besides, the +P+ 115gr has about the same recoil as 124gr +P.

Which S&W pistols were you referring to?

I used to have a S&W 6906 and called S&W about using NATO spec ammo in it. The answer was that their pistols should only be used with SAAMI ammo. Both NATO and +P+ are not SAAMI. I have no idea which pistols he was referring to, whether it was some, most or all and I didn't care to dig deeper.

BrokenArrow
12-19-2010, 07:06
The SAAMI limit for +P is 38,500 psi. NATO and LEO +P+ can exceed that. The use of NATO/+P+ ammo will accelerate wear, but most modern guns will handle it safely.

The Illinois State Police (and others) used LEO +P+ ammo in their S&W (and others SIG, and Beretta) alloy frame pistols. Plenty of NATO ammo has gone through the same pistols. I shot plenty of NATO ammo through issue M9s (Beretta 92) and M11s (SIG P228) w/o any problems.

FYI: The Speer 1115 +P+ GD is loaded to a higher pressure max (40,700 psi) than their 125 357SIG loads (40,000 psi). Some NATO/US LEO +P+ ammo is even higher (42,000 psi).

How it does in ballistic gel from G17:

115 +P GD

bare 10.5 inches/.83 caliber
FBI cloth 12.75/.60
denim 15.9/.53

124 +P GD

bare 11.8/.68
cloth 14/.60
denim 15.9/.56

125/357SIG GD (SIG P226)

bare 15/.61
cloth 17.5/.52

125/357SIG GD (SIG P229)

bare 14.7/.64
cloth 17.3/.51

As usual, some variation from lot to lot, and tester to tester. Bad guys and their clothes vary a bit too. :)

unit1069
12-19-2010, 07:43
Can anybody give me a comparison of the 115-grain +P+ loads with the Fiocchi 92-grain monoblock ammo that recently came out? I'm pretty sure the monoblock ammo is standard pressure.

I have a small CCW pistol that the manufacturer warns not to use anything but standard pressure rounds, and I was thinking that the monoblock might be just the ticket. But if it's as good, or nearly as good as the high pressure 9mm rounds, it might double as something to use with the better 9mm pistol I own.

I have a good supply of standard and +P pressure ammo and don't want to make a special online order just for +P+ so that's why I'm soliciting information. None of the local gunshops carry 9mm 115-grain +P+ ammo.

The monoblock is supposed to have very consistent penetration and expansion characteristics, but "supposed" is not the same thing as the established record for the famous +P+ 115-grain JHP rounds.

BrokenArrow
12-19-2010, 08:00
Don't have the details w me, but if IIRC, the original load tested yrs ago in gel didn't look so good. Through cloth and denim was pretty much like FMJ (18+/.36 caliber).

Kinda like the Brit 95 JSP "police ammo". Loottsa hype, testing didn't bear any of it out. New load may be better.

Lottsa good std and +P 124/147 JHP ammo out there now: GD, GS, PDX, HST, etc.

For short bbl subcompacts w low recoil, look at the Magtech 92.6g SCHP (solid copper hollow point) First Defense load. About 12/.60 through cloth/denim. Specs at 1330 fps, did 1250 fps from my G26.

GaleForce
12-19-2010, 11:49
I just bought 3 boxes of 50/box of these for my Home Defense. I will be testing 100rounds in my glock factory mag to insure 100% reliability.

Where did you find boxes of 50? Every time I see any Speer product in the stores it seems like they only sell it in packs of 20 rounds. I'd love to get some but I don't want to pay the markup for buying 20 rounds at a time. Thanks.

SDGlock23
12-19-2010, 15:32
I bought some 50rd boxes of 115gr +p+ Gold Dot from ammunitiontogo.com