Expansion Test: Fiocchi's 92gr 9mm EMB (Expanding Mono Block) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Tomac
09-26-2010, 11:35
Today I tried a highly unscientific expansion test of the Fiocchi 92gr EMB from one of my M&P9c's.
I will admit to being a little concerned about using such a light bullet out of the 9c's short bbl.
I used 3 1-gal water jugs in full contact, presenting 18" of medium (I thought 2 might be sufficient w/the 3rd for a margin of safety).
Fired a single shot from 10', impacting the center of the first jug. Surprisingly, all 3 jugs exploded w/the third showing an exit hole out the back (shucks and other comments!).
Having deliberately set up the jugs so line-of-travel was easy to determine I decided to hunt out a bit along the bullet's probable track to see if I could locate it.
I'd barely looked down into the mud when I located the expanded bullet just inches away from the third jug's location. Apparently the bullet had just enough energy to barely punch out the back of the third jug and no further.
Expansion was a full & classic mushroom measuring .64" at the widest w/full weight retention (the bullet is entirely copper & bronze).
I realize this test is highly unscientific under ideal conditions but still I find myself impressed w/the level of expansion & depth of penetration from a short bbl.
Tomac

Recovered bullet w/an unfired cartridge:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofEMBAmmoTest003.jpg
Recovered bullet, side view:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofEMBAmmoTest010.jpg
Recovered bullet, front view:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofEMBAmmoTest009.jpg

mastrbloata
09-26-2010, 12:19
That's pretty neat. Are you going to give some denim covered jugs a try? I never knew that's what those rounds were.

Tomac
09-26-2010, 12:27
That's pretty neat. Are you going to give some denim covered jugs a try? I never knew that's what those rounds were.

That was what I'd originally planned but couldn't find my denim testing scraps. However, it's on my "to-do" list for next time. Meanwhile, this is the only test w/denim that I could find: http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm
I'm going to try this test again in the near future w/a friend's fullsize 9mm and see how much difference there is in penetration and expansion.
Tomac

BOGE
10-01-2010, 10:13
That was what I'd originally planned but couldn't find my denim testing scraps. However, it's on my "to-do" list for next time. Meanwhile, this is the only test w/denim that I could find: http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm
I'm going to try this test again in the near future w/a friend's fullsize 9mm and see how much difference there is in penetration and expansion.
Tomac

I have seen the test that you have linked and THAT is impressive!! When I get back in country I will have to buy some of these!! That is great performance.

Tomac
10-01-2010, 17:27
That's pretty neat. Are you going to give some denim covered jugs a try? I never knew that's what those rounds were.

My curiosity has been piqued so a friend is helping me w/a new set of tests this weekend (probably Sunday morning). We're going to test the EMB through 2 layers of leather & 4 layers of denim w/both the M&P compact and an M&P fullsize. Will also test some .40rds and maybe a std 9mm 115gr JHP if we have enough jugs.
Stay tuned!...
Tomac

mastrbloata
10-01-2010, 18:22
My curiosity has been piqued so a friend is helping me w/a new set of tests this weekend (probably Sunday morning). We're going to test the EMB through 2 layers of leather & 4 layers of denim w/both the M&P compact and an M&P fullsize. Will also test some .40rds and maybe a std 9mm 115gr JHP if we have enough jugs.
Stay tuned!...
Tomac

Very, very cool. Can't wait.:wavey:

glocknbruce
10-01-2010, 19:03
neat....that looks like a "souped up" Hydra-Shok

Merkavaboy
10-01-2010, 19:13
neat....that looks like a "souped up" Hydra-Shok

That's one of the reasons why it took so long for the EMB round to hit the States, because of pantent rights enfringement.

Tomac
10-03-2010, 11:06
Just got back from the range, here are the results, all fired from 10' through 1 layer of lined leather and 2 layers of denim and correlate to how you see the bullets in the pic from left to right:

1) (Not shown) 3.6" bbl, EMB, bullet passed through leather, denim and all 4 jugs and was not recovered (I have no idea what happened here).
2) 3.6" bbl, EMB, this is the bullet from the first test last week, no leather or denim, Exp = .64", Pen = 18".
3) 3.6" bbl, Fiocchi 115gr XTP JHP, Exp = .52", Pen = 18".
4) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .69", Pen = 15".
5) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .74", Pen = 18".
6) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .65", Pen = 18".
7) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .70"*, Pen = 18". * = shed 2 petals in the 2nd jug.

After the first unrecovered shot, following bullets penetrated wet leather/denim, I have no idea what effect if any it might have on expansion/penetration. Remarkably consistent penetration despite different bbl lengths or prescence/lack of leather/denim.
Also tested for comparison (but not shown):
8) Federal .40 180gr Hydra-Shok, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".
9) Speer .40 155gr Gold Dot, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".

Test setup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofEMBAmmoTest2001.jpg
Recovered bullets:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofEMBAmmoTest2002.jpg

ETA: Here are some other 9mm water jug tests for comparison: http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html

mastrbloata
10-03-2010, 11:38
Thanks for the tests. These are really reasonably priced I've noticed as well.

Tomac
10-03-2010, 11:42
Thanks for the tests. These are really reasonably priced I've noticed as well.

You're welcome and correct about them being reasonably priced!
Tomac
PS- I just added a link above to other 9mm water jug tests.

RottnJP
10-03-2010, 18:56
I wonder how those will hold together at .357 SIG speeds... Seems like that might be a *great* load.

Tomac
10-03-2010, 20:19
I wonder how those will hold together at .357 SIG speeds... Seems like that might be a *great* load.

Hmmm... I don't know about .357 SIG speeds. At 3.6" bbl speeds the recovered bullets retained 100% of their weight but out of a 4.25" bbl I saw evidence of shedding petals. Boost it to .357 SIG speeds and I wouldn't be surprised to see it shed *all* of it's petals! :shocked:
Tomac

BurkGlocker
10-03-2010, 20:43
Its too bad that they dont make them in the .40 or .45... That would be awesomeeeee...

Burk

BOGE
10-03-2010, 23:38
For those wanting this performance in other calibers the Corbon DPX is the hands down winner. It does all this & a bag of chips. Basically this Fiocchi round is a ``po boy`` DPX and there is nothing wrong with that.

PATRICE
10-04-2010, 04:29
.....

Tomac
10-04-2010, 17:32
Okay, here's a question for those better versed than I in fluid dynamics:
For such a lightweight bullet the EMB seems to achieve notable penetration w/very good expansion. Could this unexpected penetration be due in part to the EMB's bronze post possibly enhancing post-expansion hydrodynamics instead of presenting the typical entirely flat mushroom shape of more std JHP's?
Tomac

RottnJP
10-05-2010, 11:32
Yes, I think that's the intent. The way I think of it is the thick center post is designed to act like a FMJ. It also is thick enough to keep the hollow point from collapsing when it hits a barrier. To me, this is different from (and superior to) the Hydra-shock for this reason.

RottnJP
10-05-2010, 12:12
For those wanting this performance in other calibers the Corbon DPX is the hands down winner. It does all this & a bag of chips. Basically this Fiocchi round is a ``po boy`` DPX and there is nothing wrong with that.

At $.50 per round, vs. $1.50 a pop, I'd take a serious look at this EMB stuff in whatever caliber they choose to make. At Cor-bon's prices, I'll go with speer GD once I run out of gold dot loaded double-tap ammo. I have to check invoice on my last DT order... I'm afraid I might have gotten Montana gold without realizing it...

Tomac
10-05-2010, 17:40
Question: I've received several comments about "18" of water penetration is only 9" in gel" (ie: 2:1 conversion factor) yet most other 9mm loads tested here through water jugs don't do better: http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
Since bullets have to penetrate numerous plastic jugs and not just water is it possible that having to penetrate the plastic is having a negative effect on overall penetration?
Tomac

ULVER
10-05-2010, 21:58
For those wanting this performance in other calibers the Corbon DPX is the hands down winner. It does all this & a bag of chips. Basically this Fiocchi round is a ``po boy`` DPX and there is nothing wrong with that.

DPX-$$$/EMB-$ This stuff deserves more testing & exposure!

FYI-There have been reports that the Federal EFMJ, has been "tested" overseas, and it has improved confidence in the 9mm; seems to be putting bad guys down!

BOGE
10-05-2010, 22:59
...FYI-There have been reports that the Federal EFMJ, has been "tested" overseas, and it has improved confidence in the 9mm; seems to be putting bad guys down!

That`s because they drink wine & eat brie cheese, i.e., pansies. :supergrin:



:rofl:

BOGE
10-29-2010, 09:28
Tomac, or anyone else, have you seen a calibrated gel test of this round? I have read every crumb of info on the Net but only found one reference to an older gel test when Hirtenberger made it.

Tomac
10-29-2010, 12:27
Tomac, or anyone else, have you seen a calibrated gel test of this round? I have read every crumb of info on the Net but only found one reference to an older gel test when Hirtenberger made it.

I've sent a box to Dr.Gary Roberts for calibrated gel testing sometime this Fall, I'll post the results when I hear back from him (I'll also post the results of the box sent to a feral hog hunter in TX).
Tomac

BOGE
10-29-2010, 13:33
I've sent a box to Dr.Gary Roberts for calibrated gel testing sometime this Fall, I'll post the results when I hear back from him (I'll also post the results of the box sent to a feral hog hunter in TX).
Tomac

Great!! :cool: I am eagerly awaiting further testing results as this ctg. appears to be fantastic!! :supergrin:

Looks like they make it in .40 S&W as well:

http://www.tactical.at/product_info.php/info/p42_EMB-Fiocchi-Expansiv-Mono-Block.html

BOGE
11-23-2010, 00:39
Just received some of this today and will shoot a few later this week if possible due to weather & the holiday. I'd like to see Canyon Man, Glolt or Fred wring out a box of it on predators.

Tomac
11-23-2010, 07:23
I sent a box to Dr.Gary Roberts for gel testing and a box to a feral hog hunter down Texas way, I'll post back as soon as I hear from them.
Tomac