What is the latest revision of Winchester 180gr Ranger? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ABNAK
10-05-2010, 05:49
Saw on Kyle's website that he has some Winnie Ranger-T 180gr loads. One is $3 more than the other. It says it is the latest revision of the Ranger-T. The other, cheaper one, is listed as Ranger-T (SXT). I ordered a box of it (along with some other goodies) and was wondering what is the difference?

According to his website they both have the same factory code, which is LE RA40T. How can I tell the difference if the code is the same? Not that I don't trust Kyle to send what I paid for but can one tell by looking? Is this latest version better in some way?

Paging Hotpig.......

dkf
10-05-2010, 09:27
I had heard the "Talons" open up a little larger on the newest revision.

fastbolt
10-05-2010, 11:58
Hotpig can give you more detailed info, but basically Winchester got rid of the SXT designation with their most recent revision and used "T-Series" as the designation and the Symbol Code (RA40T). We were told the latest revision included some tweaking for enhanced accuracy and that the jacket petals/notching had been changed to give more outward expansion instead of folding back & over.

Also, in the current CA state LE ammunition contract the symbol code is RA40TL, instead of just RA40T. I haven't had time to ask what the added "L" designates, but if it's like when Remington had a previous contract (back before the Golden Sabre had the contact), their R40SW2C load had the "C" added to their regular product code of R40SW2. We were told that it indicated a minor change had been made to their R40SW2 load to meet something specific in the CA contract specifications. I'm guessing the added "L" might be something of the same sort.

http://www.bidsync.com/DPX?ac=agencycontview&contid=18901

The pricing of the latest T-Series load when purchased under the state contract is really good, you'll notice, BTW. :faint:

ABNAK
10-05-2010, 14:18
Hotpig can give you more detailed info, but basically Winchester got rid of the SXT designation with their most recent revision and used "T-Series" as the designation and the Symbol Code (RA40T). We were told the latest revision included some tweaking for enhanced accuracy and that the jacket petals/notching had been changed to give more outward expansion instead of folding back & over.



Thanks for the info. Is this the round for all CA LEO's using .40 or just state agencies? Any other large agencies (federal, state, or local) use this round?

Is it supposed to be a pretty solid performer?

fastbolt
10-05-2010, 17:23
Any CA agency can piggy back off the state contract.

Usually the cost of the T-Series rounds are somewhat prohibitive and many agencies aren't able, or willing, to spend that kind of money just for ammunition.

For many years the typical contract loads were one or another of the low-cost budget loads (like the Winchester ranger RA40180HP & the Remington Express R40SW2C). Then, for whatever reasons, Remington got the contract with their Golden Sabre at very affordable pricing in 9 & .40, and now Winchester got it with their 9 & .40 T-Series. Agencies using .45 would still have to work out some sort of deal with a distributor, though, since .45 isn't on the contract.

The T-Series is a decent premium load.

hotpig
10-05-2010, 19:42
fastbolt pretty much covered it. If your box of RA40T is marked SXT it is the original T-Series mfg between 1998 and 2008. If the box has T-Series on it then it is the current T-Series Enhanced.

WiskyT
10-05-2010, 19:55
The Ranger ammo we had before 1998 (brass case, black bullet) had the SXT designation. When it went to the then new version (nickle case, standard color jacket) it took on the "T" designation. We had the RA40TA, with the A being for the 165 grain. I have no idea what they are doing now, but the RA40T and RA40TA designation has been around for years.

fastbolt
10-05-2010, 21:23
The Ranger ammo we had before 1998 (brass case, black bullet) had the SXT designation. When it went to the then new version (nickle case, standard color jacket) it took on the "T" designation. We had the RA40TA, with the A being for the 165 grain. I have no idea what they are doing now, but the RA40T and RA40TA designation has been around for years.

This is how Winchester can sometimes confuse the issue for us.

They started using the RA45T (and other calibers) as the symbol code while still using the SXT designation in the name on the end flap. They previously used the SXT designation in the symbol code, like RA45SXTP, which became the RA45TP, but the SXT designation was still listed in the end flap's product name. It also incorporated some refinement which widened the velocity window in which the bullet would expand (allowing for the shorter barreled guns LE liked to use for plainclothes).

Then, with the latest revision they totally eliminated the SXT in the name and replaced it with T-Series, while keeping the RA45TP symbol code.

pimuk
10-06-2010, 00:45
Do they have any attempt to tell that the T-Series of today is enhanced T-Series?

hotpig
10-06-2010, 06:40
Do they have any attempt to tell that the T-Series of today is enhanced T-Series?The box says T-Series instead of SXT.

ABNAK
10-06-2010, 13:00
The box says T-Series instead of SXT.

Yes, it does (got it yesterday).

granitemonkey
10-06-2010, 16:18
The box says T-Series instead of SXT.


What about the boxes of RA9T that have this product code and say SXT on the box? I have some of the 1998-2008 stuff that says RA9SXT and its the old style bullet and some of the RA9T/SXT stuff and the bullets dont look the same. So, Im guessing the RA9T/SXT is the new style bullet?

hotpig
10-06-2010, 16:47
Any box of any caliber with SXT on it is the older.

fastbolt
10-06-2010, 18:26
If teh name designation has SXT in it, it's not the latest revision.

If the letters SXT appear in the Symbol Code, it's older than the ammo using the Symbol Code containing just the "RA" & "T" letters. RA40SXT is older than the RA40T, for example ... and, if the box end flap contains SXT in the name designation, it's older than the box which contains the T-Series designation in the name.

It's probably easiest to illustrate this with a picture.

Here's a couple of boxes of the 180gr Ranger T-Series load. The box on top is the latest version and the box on the bottom is the previous version.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/RA40Tboxes.jpg

I don't think I have a box of an older 180gr load at hand at the moment, meaning the RA40SXT. Maybe buried away in my ammo, but I'm not going to go look for it. These 2 boxes were easily at hand. :)

Any special orders which came in the non-commercial Q-load plain white boxes can be anything, depending on what was ordered by an agency.

whiskey rebel1
10-06-2010, 18:45
how do I find 'kyles' web site? Thanks

BurkGlocker
10-06-2010, 19:20
Black Talon and it Siblings:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/wharsmahhummer/IMAG0106.jpg

From left: Black Talon SXT 180 gr, Ranger SXT LEO 180 gr (with Lubalox, brass case), Ranger SXT LEO (without Lubalox, nickel case), Ranger T-Series 180 gr.

My apologies for the bad photo...

Winchester definately did their homework throughout the years in the different enhancements that they performed on the Black Talon/Ranger bullets. They marketed them as 'Deep Penetrator' in the early years, but they are still penetrating just as deep but at the same time, expansion is phenomenal. I loved the Black Talons, and I definately love the Ranger T-Series.

Burk

hotpig
10-06-2010, 19:27
how do I find 'kyles' web site? ThanksKyle's gunshop is the name. He is very pricey compared to others.

granitemonkey
10-06-2010, 19:52
If teh name designation has SXT in it, it's not the latest revision.

If the letters SXT appear in the Symbol Code, it's older than the ammo using the Symbol Code containing just the "RA" & "T" letters. RA40SXT is older than the RA40T, for example ... and, if the box end flap contains SXT in the name designation, it's older than the box which contains the T-Series designation in the name.

It's probably easiest to illustrate this with a picture.

Here's a couple of boxes of the 180gr Ranger T-Series load. The box on top is the latest version and the box on the bottom is the previous version.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/RA40Tboxes.jpg

I don't think I have a box of an older 180gr load at hand at the moment, meaning the RA40SXT. Maybe buried away in my ammo, but I'm not going to go look for it. These 2 boxes were easily at hand. :)

Any special orders which came in the non-commercial Q-load plain white boxes can be anything, depending on what was ordered by an agency.

The bottom box in your pic looks just like my 9MM ammo, Left hand side: 147 GR. SXT and the product code on the right hand side says RA9T. So, yes I know its older. But I think its the post 2008 newer style bullet.

BurkGlocker
10-06-2010, 20:00
On the other hand...

I bought some 45 ACP Rangers, both were product code RA45T, one had SXT designation, the other had T-Series. When I tested them, both expanded to the same diameter, the talons were the same length and penetrated to the same depth. If Winchester did enhance them, I wouldnt have been able to tell the difference.

Burk

fastbolt
10-07-2010, 03:04
The bottom box in your pic looks just like my 9MM ammo, Left hand side: 147 GR. SXT and the product code on the right hand side says RA9T. So, yes I know its older. But I think its the post 2008 newer style bullet.

I'd be surprised if it's the current bullet packaged by the factory in the older box. If you really want to know, you could try calling or emailing Winchester and asking about the production lot number inside one of the end flaps.

granitemonkey
10-07-2010, 15:16
I'd be surprised if it's the current bullet packaged by the factory in the older box. If you really want to know, you could try calling or emailing Winchester and asking about the production lot number inside one of the end flaps.


I also have a couple boxes marked 147 Gr. T-Series/RA9T as well, and the bullets are exactly the same as the box that says 147 Gr. SXT/RA9T.

fastbolt
10-07-2010, 15:38
Don't expect all changes to be something you can see with the naked eye.

A change in the nose cavity shape & depth might be something easily distinguished, but a change in the thickness of the jacket at some point where the petals separate is not something you ought to expect to be able to see from the outside. A slight change in the heel of the bullet inside the jacket wouldn't be something you could expect to see, either.

granitemonkey
10-07-2010, 19:51
Thanks for the info good sir's, I need to email Winchester and see whats up. I have three different types of 147gr 9MM Ranger. Some I bought from SG Ammo, Which is Z coded, which I know its not to be sold to LE.

Its from when Winchester did the change over to the new bullet and didnt wanna waste the bullets. On those boxes it says 147 Gr. SXT and the product code is RA9SXT.

Then I have some 147 Gr. T-Series and the product code is RA9T. I know this is the newest and updated ammo.


Then I have the ones I mentioned before, Which says 147 Gr. SXT and the product code is RA9T. Are these the ones that came out after 2008? Because they have the new product code. Your right though this is confusing lol.

hotpig
10-09-2010, 16:19
Ranger Z ammo can be anything from left over contract ammo to cosmetic rejects.

The current RA9SXT is the Winchester SXT that was discontinued this year. They took it out of the 20 round box and put it in the 50 round box. Eventually it will sale out and be gone for good.

Ranger that says 147 Gr. SXT and the product code is RA9T was made between 1998 and 2008.

Ranger that says 147gr T-Series and product code RA9T is the new ammo.

I did not stock any of the RA9SXT but did get the 38+P just to give my customers a less expensive option on 38spc ammo. It sold out pretty fast.