G23 Breach Face...should I be concerned? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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art g
10-10-2010, 22:57
Just picked up a very nice Generation 2 Glock 23. Pistol is in like new condition except the breach face is covered in what appears to be some kind of tool marks... or? Should I be concerned about this or just fire away and forget it? Have owned many Glocks but never have I run in to anything like this. Any advice would be appreciated. Below is a pic Thank you, artgsc@aol.com
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5070756214_ba45624d96_m.jpg

wcmaas
10-12-2010, 00:49
I've got some that look like that too. Wondered the same thing as you. Doesn't seem to make any difference - they all shoot fine and are boring reliable.

Brian Lee
10-12-2010, 01:24
I'm a machinist among other things, and that does not look like any kind of original machining marks to me at all.

My guess is that the back end of the barrel has been rubbing the breech face pretty hard and making this happen. This is the kind of galling action that occurs in industrial tooling whenever you have two metal parts rubbing hard with little or no lubrication, and with no difference in the hardness of the two metal parts. Whenever two steel parts are about the same hardness, however hard or soft that is, this is the kind of marks that result from rubbing them together too hard. Making one part of a metal that is significantly harder than the other generally stops it from happening.

I had always assumed that Glock would make the breech face and the barrel at different hardness's to prevent this problem, but maybe not. It could also be that an aftermarket barrel was used which had a hardness matching that of the breech.

It isn't normal at all, but it looks to have kept itself worn down fairly smooth as it went, so if the barrel seems to lock up tight, it's probably OK to shoot. Check the back end of the barrel for similar marks, and maybe smooth both surfaces with a nice flat stone, not a file.

Paul_J
10-12-2010, 09:29
I just pulled my 23 apart and inserted a dummy round into the barrel and slide like it would during a normal cycle. The back end of the barrel doesn't make contact with that area of the breach face but the back of the case does and as the case is loaded it slides up underneath the extractor. Maybe the end of the brass case is galling on the breach face a little bit. Mine has about 2400 rounds and it shows very little wear.

Edit, Mine is not real smooth and shows some faint tooling marks.

Jim S.
10-14-2010, 19:19
I don't think brass would do that to a Glock Slide.
The Glock slides are very hard so it has to be a like metal that is equally hard.
Like the barrel.

art g
10-14-2010, 20:32
I appreciate the input from those who have posted. I am going to try and talk with someone at Glock and see if they would be willing to give an opinion as well. artgsc@aol.com

LT642
10-15-2010, 04:35
art g, We've been using the G23 for many years, most, if not all, of our pistols look this way after a awhile. For piece of mind, call Glock, ask for Fred, and talk with him, you could also e mail him the picture to take a look at.

TakeDeadAim
10-23-2010, 16:13
with it being all shiny silver like that I suspect someone at minimum "polished it" I have never seen a Glock wear across the entire surface in my experience. Some finish wear with extensive use is to be expected but not across the entire surface especially all the way at the top where nothing comes in contact with it. The barrel does not rub against the breach face the only wear would be from brass and the tenifer finish holds up to brass pretty well. I have seen people polish this surface thinking it will help make the gun feed better, (it does help on a 1911) but I am not sure it is needed on a Glock. I dont recall seeing many if any that were that rough from the factory so I would be interested in what they have to say.

TakeDeadAim
Glock Certified Armour

1006
10-23-2010, 17:40
would steel cased ammo do that?

repoman1984
10-23-2010, 17:57
would steel cased ammo do that?


Thats my best guess although the rockwell (hardness) on the cases isn't even in the same ballpark as a glock slide. its probably rubbed in and deposited as opposed to removed materials. Hit it with a brass brush see what happens but I dont see it as a problem.

minkis18
10-27-2010, 12:49
It looks like your biggest problem might be trying to clean all the grime out of that thing! My glock has unknown thousands of rounds thru it and the ONLY marks on the breach face is a circular pattern from the cases. Likely just brass buildup.

If I were to polish my breach face (which I just did some on my pre-owned ke-tec as well as other surfaces around there) it would just be to ease cleaning. I had the locking lugs polished on one of my other guns and it made it so all I had to do what wipe it off with a patch to make it shine.

art g
10-31-2010, 07:32
I boxed up the slide and sent it to Glock. Asked for repair or replacement on my dime. Will post results when I know more. Except for the weird breach face this gun came to me in otherwise what appears to be unfired condition. Thanks for the all info posted in response to my inquiry here. I appreciate it! artgsc@aol.com

arlessinfl
11-08-2010, 17:45
A couple of my older glocks look like this too. I do not think that it is unusual...but I would like to hear what the OP hears from Glock!

captdreifus
11-10-2010, 16:11
I just bought a used 23 gen2 as well. Mine has tooling marks as well like the picture described. Have you tried shooting it before shipping to Glock? How much did they say it would cost to replace the slide?

Thanks,
capt

*Paladin*
11-19-2010, 22:16
My old G19's breechface looked like that from day 1. Wasn't ever a problem.

NYStatePD
11-20-2010, 00:28
Same marks on my 13 year old G19.

I call it "The Matrix":supergrin:

art g
11-20-2010, 08:32
I have seen a couple of other Glocks now that have the same marks (not quite as pronounced as mine) so it is apparent that this must have been somewhat typical on the older guns. Even though my original slide is fine I still decided to get a new blind marked Lonewolf slide and then sent it to Robar for NP3. Installed steel sights, extended slide release, titanium pin kit, grip plug, 3# connector and finally a Crimson Trace laser which CDNN has on sale right now for $149. Turned out to be a fun project and the gun shoots well. Art G.

arlessinfl
11-22-2010, 11:14
Art -

Did you hear anything back from Glock?

art g
11-25-2010, 10:58
I have not heard anything back from Glock yet but will give them a call next week and check in with them. I mailed the slide to Smyrna with a very polite note indicating that I felt the "tool marks" on the slide were excessive in my opinion and I would like a repair or replacement. Also, said I would be willing to pay a reasonable amount for this correction but would need to be contacted with a price. My delivery confirmation receipt says that they received the slide on November 1st. In the meantime, I decided to go ahead and invest some money in this gun as otherwise it is like new and below is a picture. I am very pleased with the new Crimson Trace from CDNN for $149 as I think that was an excellent deal. I bought this style a few years ago for around $250 for a Glock 19 but traded them off soon after as I could not stand that there was no master on-off switch. Now, with my 56 year old eyes I haven't seen a sharp front sight in quite some time so for $149 I can live with the all the time laser. Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving! art g artgsc@aol.com
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5210/5206474847_0aaee3bd8c_z.jpg

Wriggly
12-01-2010, 03:04
I would be curious to hear what Glock has to say, and what they do to fix your problem. I suspect a new slide will be in the works, because that looks like galling to me, and it should not be occurring with contact from brass and soft steel or aluminum cases. It would indicate a defect from non hardened steel.

bubba541
12-02-2010, 07:57
I"m betting they tell you it was polished and that polishing revealed the marks that are normally covered up by the tennifer finish. But they would sell you a slide at whatever cost. I would not worry about it, blast away with reckless abandon.
:whistling:

art g
12-02-2010, 08:29
Just got off the phone with Glock tech service. My gun was manufactured in 1993 and at that time this is how the breach faces were done. Glock says the slide has not been polished or tampered with. A new slide would be $180 but is not needed. When I started to give the fellow my Visa info to pay for the return shipping he said it was not necessary as there would be no charge. Also, he said they will inspect the internal parts before sending it back. So far, I am very pleased with the new Lonewolf Slide I decided to upgrade to and have learned something about older Glocks in the process. Thanks again to all who posted on this thread! artgsc@aol.com

fastbolt
12-02-2010, 10:13
The breech face seems indicative of how a slightly dulling cutter can leave marks when it takes small chips out of the steel. Not unusual. Not pretty, and a cosmetic issue for some folks ... but not unusual.

arlessinfl
12-02-2010, 17:00
Interesting...probably the reason that it is only on my older glocks that I see those marks.
Pretty ugly for sure. Why would they ship guns like that? I ask because it seems that they came from the factory like that (per Glock's response to Art).

.45Super-Man
12-02-2010, 17:12
The breech face seems indicative of how a slightly dulling cutter can leave marks when it takes small chips out of the steel. Not unusual. Not pretty, and a cosmetic issue for some folks ... but not unusual.

I agree, this is what happens when you dont change out bits often enough.

fastbolt
12-02-2010, 19:57
Interesting...probably the reason that it is only on my older glocks that I see those marks.
Pretty ugly for sure. Why would they ship guns like that? I ask because it seems that they came from the factory like that (per Glock's response to Art).

Why not? It's usually not a cause of functioning problems, especially when the markings are so small. Just doesn't look as nice. We're talking about a service-grade pistol, after all, too.


I agree, this is what happens when you dont change out bits often enough.

I've been told that the newest CNC equipment (like that purchased by S&W in recent years) monitors itself and will shut itself down for maintenance if it senses a dulling tool/cutter. Nice thing to have when the equipment is running 24 hours a day, even when attended by an operator.

FWIW, I once received an ordered pistol (not a Glock) which exhibited something very similar, except in addition to some small chipping/markings there was a fairly large chip in the breech right under the firing pin hole. MUCH larger than anything in the OP's provided image. I'm talking about an actual chip that could catch and hold a pin punch or fingernail. It filled with quite a bit of brass transfer, but I shot it quite a lot without any problems.

Although the gun fed & extracted properly I was still a bit concerned about the potential for feeding problems if a rough case rim encountered the divot. I finally called and discussed my concern with the company and they asked me to return the gun to them at their expense for examination. Shortly later I received the same frame back with a new slide, one which exhibited excellent machining of the breech face (the slide wasn't serial numbered in that model line).

From what I was able to learn, while the company didn't feel the condition was a potential functioning problem, they wanted to keep their customer happy and replaced the slide, anyway. They didn't have to do so, and could have easily told me that they wouldn't replace it unless it ever exhibited an actual functioning problem.

If I remember right, I think Butch could post a picture of one of his Glocks that has some similar rougher machining on the breech face, and which hasn't caused him any problems over the years.

art g
12-08-2010, 06:30
Received the slide back from Glock. As I said in a previous post they refused to let me pay for the return shipping and since I shipped the slide to them completely stripped they also put all new parts in at no charge. I approached Glock with this whole thing more from a curiosity standpoint than ever expecting them do be able to do anything with the slide....so in all honesty they have exceeded my expectations from a customer service standpoint. artgsc@aol.comhttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/5243274219_a37508e8cc_z.jpg

Cturbo
12-08-2010, 07:07
My 1993 G21 has the same marks, and no problem at all.

fastbolt
12-10-2010, 14:01
Not an unexpected outcome.

Glad it was a satisfactory experience for you.

Retriever Believer
03-26-2011, 20:22
My 1997 vintage G30 shows similar marks.

Lloyd-Xmas
03-27-2011, 19:47
I would be curious to hear what Glock has to say, and what they do to fix your problem. I suspect a new slide will be in the works, because that looks like galling to me, and it should not be occurring with contact from brass and soft steel or aluminum cases. It would indicate a defect from non hardened steel.

I don't think the aluminum cases are going to hurt your breechface.

IIRC, there was an issue with primers backing out of the aluminum cased Blazer and flame-cutting the breechface, but I don't think it would look like that.

Marcus99
08-21-2013, 23:31
I know this is a few years old, but its been a very informative thread that eased my concerns over my new-to-me G17 circa '92 that had only 100rds through it. It has some of these marks on the breech face, and appears polished (i.e. lacks tenifer finish). Good to know the marks are factory and not an issue and the breech was not actually polished but instead that is how Glock shipped them in the 1990's.

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/1182/6wzc.jpg