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emt1581
10-13-2010, 15:12
So for the 3rd or 4th straight week in a row Silver once again has went up ANOTHER point/dollar per ounce. What in the hell is going on here that it's going up that much every WEEK!?!?!

I know our economy is going to hell in a hand basket but it seems like something made the process speed up. So what's happened/happening to cause such a thing to happen? I'm looking for specifics...not just the typical..."we can't sustain things as they currently are".

Thanks!

-Emt1581

SilverCity
10-13-2010, 15:17
So for the 3rd or 4th straight week in a row Silver once again has went up ANOTHER point/dollar per ounce. What in the hell is going on here that it's going up that much every WEEK!?!?!

I know our economy is going to hell in a hand basket but it seems like something made the process speed up. So what's happened/happening to cause such a thing to happen? I'm looking for specifics...not just the typical..."we can't sustain things as they currently are".

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Check the markets. Dollar down. Gold at all time high. Silver is following suit. Both act inversely to the dollar. Oh, and we are on the verge of a currency war...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.f44dc0982a11a52246a9f2b994a36455.231&show_article=1

Not complicated.

SC

emt1581
10-13-2010, 15:23
Check the markets. Dollar down. Gold at all time high. Silver is following suit. Both act inversely to the dollar. Not complicated.

But are you saying that there's no real (specific) reason for the recent rise in relation to the dollar?

Your market example might work on the whole/overall but my stocks are actually consistently going up in value...not down.

-Emt1581

SilverCity
10-13-2010, 15:31
But are you saying that there's no real (specific) reason for the recent rise in relation to the dollar?

Your market example might work on the whole/overall but my stocks are actually consistently going up in value...not down.

-Emt1581


Your stocks are going up because the Federal Reserve is pumping money into the market to prop it up prior to the elections. This happens around every election. Think of it as a "false flag" to distract the public from the disaster that is about to hit the U.S....the crash of the economy, the real estate market, and U.S. banking system.

Just wait until after the elections... :wow:

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/10/13/foreclosure-fraud-investigation-of-top-u-s-banks-spreads-to-49/

Okay, now it's getting complicated.

SC

emt1581
10-13-2010, 15:41
Your stocks are going up because the Federal Reserve is pumping money into the market to prop it up prior to the elections. This happens around every election. Think of it as a "false flag" to distract the public from the disaster that is about to hit the U.S....the crash of the economy, the real estate market, and U.S. banking system.

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/10/13/foreclosure-fraud-investigation-of-top-u-s-banks-spreads-to-49/

Okay, now it's getting complicated.

SC

But you just said the markets are down...so how does that play into the whole...stocks going up due to money pumping idea?

Complicated or not...seems like the reasons you mentioned are the currency war and the markets. Right?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

SilverCity
10-13-2010, 15:45
Where did I say the stock market was down? I said the DOLLAR is down. :upeyes:

http://www.kitco.com/market/


SC

emt1581
10-13-2010, 15:59
Where did I say the stock market was down? I said the DOLLAR is down. :upeyes:

http://www.kitco.com/market/


SC

You said check the markets then dollar down. I guess I misinterpreted that. :upeyes:

But back on track...what happens after the election...statistically speaking?

And there's no other event that took place to cause what we're seeing other than the currency war and money pumping?

I just figured something else would cause the rapid decrease in the dollar's value.

-Emt1581

VBG23
10-13-2010, 17:14
I just figured something else would cause the rapid decrease in the dollar's value.

-Emt1581

Listen, you are going to get tons of answers from everyone under the sun ranging from Obama did it to Bush did it to aliens did it.

The easier answer is click below to see why the dollar is falling in value so fast
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The more dollars there are, the less each one is worth. Every dollar printed by ANY ADMINISTRATION subtracts value from the dollars in your pocket.

Keeping that in mind, recent news regarding the Fed intentionally increasing inflation is going to send PMs skyrocketing and the dollar plummeting even faster. Read the article, they want to intentionally cause inflation to force you to spend your money before it is worth less (translation:worthless).
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-13/fed-considers-raising-inflation-expectations-to-boost-economy.html

Whatever asshat thinks that is a good idea should be tried for treason

On a related note, start reading Schiff, Celente and Faber because they predicted the collapse of '08 and have been predicting currency wars followed by a collapse of the dollar for months if not years now. Current headlines read like lines from their prior articles.

VBG23
10-13-2010, 17:29
Also, I said a few weeks ago that "the sign" of an impending collapse would be a parabolic rise in PM prices. You were the one that commented that silver has been rising $1 a week for a while, not me. Silver hasn't had a major pullback since about $5 ago (to be honest I wish it would so I could get more on the cheap). However, it certainly seems like the beginning of something major doesn't it?

The measures of economic instability continue to rise and the measures of the dollar continue to plummet. The only reason the DOW keeps rising is because of inflation and manipulation. I will even stick my neck out and make a prediction: sometime after the elections, the DOW will plummet tremendously because the "too big to fails" will only prosper under a democraticly controlled congress willing to give massive bailouts. This will prompt them to cease the manipulation they are currently engaged to make it appear that returning conservatives (read Tea Party) to washington will be a bad idea.

If you don't buy the "manipulation" theory, why is it that insider trading shows over 1000-1 are withdrawing money and mutual funds have been hemoraging cash as everyday people are pulling their money out as well.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/paging-bob-pisani-mutual-funds-see-23rd-sequential-outflow-redemptions-accelerate-hit-80-bil
So if everyone is pulling money out of the market so fast, how is it still going up?

Very few, if any, companies are fundamentally more sound today than they were 10 years ago. We have played so fast and loose with the financial system, banks cannot even foreclose no some houses because no one can find the actual title.

Let me put this into your head if you "own" your house: If BoA cannot find the title to legally foreclose on your neighbor's house, what makes you think they can find the title to hand you when you pay off the loan? Without the title you will never fully own your property.

Ok, now cue someone who will tell me I am just being negative and all of our fundamentals our sound........

phil evans
10-13-2010, 19:35
if there is rampant inflation,
if the fed prints more dollars,
where should i put my discretionary funds?
in canned goods, silver coins, paper dollar bills?
tangible things such as materials, hardwear, food preps, silver coin, mutual funds, sundries.

SilverCity
10-13-2010, 19:53
if there is rampant inflation,
if the fed prints more dollars,
where should i put my discretionary funds?
in canned goods, silver coins, paper dollar bills?
tangible things such as materials, hardwear, food preps, silver coin, mutual funds, sundries.

Bob Chapman sez:

Gold coins, silver coins and bullion, 3 months cash, "assault" weapons, mags & ammo, freeze dried food, water filters....if you have lots of money, quality mining shares, numismatics. Leave the country. Prepare for violent revolution if November election does not succeed in turning this country around.

I agree with Bob. I would add, get right with your Maker.




SC

Dennis in MA
10-13-2010, 21:56
Buy vintage playboys. Every post-SHTF swinging-D will need em. ;)


. . . fed pumps up the market before an election. :rofl: That's a new one on me.

SilverCity
10-13-2010, 22:19
Buy vintage playboys. Every post-SHTF swinging-D will need em. ;)


. . . fed pumps up the market before an election. :rofl: That's a new one on me.


Pay attention, Dennis.

Don't believe the markets are rigged by our own government?

Executive Order 12631 signed by Ronald Reagan in 1988. The "President's Working Group On Financial Markets". We know them as the "Plunge Protection Team". Guess who is on that team: The Secretary of the Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, The Chairman of the Security and Exchange Commission, and the Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.

And what do you think it is they do?

In this crucial upcoming election, TPTB can see the writing on the wall and I bet they are pulling out all the stops to keep this market solvent...at least until after the elections.

SC

kirgi08
10-13-2010, 23:21
tagged.

emt1581
10-14-2010, 01:07
Holy crap!! Government doing or not...now it's kissing 25!!! In less than 12 hours since it hit 24!! What in hell's bathroom is going on here?

-Emt1581

VBG23
10-14-2010, 05:48
Holy crap!! Government doing or not...now it's kissing 25!!! In less than 12 hours since it hit 24!! What in hell's bathroom is going on here?

-Emt1581

I just told you...

wjv
10-14-2010, 10:11
if there is rampant inflation,
if the fed prints more dollars,
where should i put my discretionary funds?
in canned goods, silver coins, paper dollar bills?
tangible things such as materials, hardwear, food preps, silver coin, mutual funds, sundries.

While I like Silver, I'd put food before anything else.

- 3+ months of food (6+ is even better)
- 1-2 basic firearms + ammo. Even a couple .22s are good!
- Some cash in safe at home in case there is a bank "holiday"
- Only then can you can start thinking about PMs

VBG23
10-14-2010, 10:26
while i like silver, i'd put food before anything else.

- 3+ months of food (6+ is even better)
- 1-2 basic firearms + ammo. Even a couple .22s are good!
- some cash in safe at home in case there is a bank "holiday"
- only then can you can start thinking about pms

+1....

emt1581
10-14-2010, 10:27
While I like Silver, I'd put food before anything else.

- 3+ months of food (6+ is even better)
- 1-2 basic firearms + ammo. Even a couple .22s are good!
- Some cash in safe at home in case there is a bank "holiday"
- Only then can you can start thinking about PMs

I think food/safe water is crucial!! I've got a gun or two and some ammo. But where I would have agreed but now you lose me is the cash at home idea...

Previously I would have said to have money socked away. Stacks of bills just in case of a SHTF. However, given that the SHTF seems likely to be those bills becoming worthless...I'm not sure that is the best idea any more.

-Emt1581

rwrjr
10-14-2010, 10:51
I think food/safe water is crucial!! I've got a gun or two and some ammo. But where I would have agreed but now you lose me is the cash at home idea...

Previously I would have said to have money socked away. Stacks of bills just in case of a SHTF. However, given that the SHTF seems likely to be those bills becoming worthless...I'm not sure that is the best idea any more.

-Emt1581

They can double as pre-cut toilet paper in your scenario. Although I'd run them through the washing machine first. No telling what creepy crawlies are on them.

emt1581
10-14-2010, 10:54
They can double as pre-cut toilet paper in your scenario. Although I'd run them through the washing machine first. No telling what creepy crawlies are on them.

In MY scenario? I get the joke but were you denying what we're seeing as far as the USD losing value rapidly?

-Emt1581

Big Bird
10-14-2010, 10:58
Does the Federal Reserve do its trading online through Scwab or Ameritrade or do they use a broker?

Where are the securities held?

rwrjr
10-14-2010, 11:03
In MY scenario? I get the joke but were you denying what we're seeing as far as the USD losing value rapidly?

-Emt1581

Nope, I agree that the greenback is dropping like a rock. Me thinks something is afoot. I'll know for sure in about three weeks.

Tangibles are king. The priority you assign to different classes of tangibles is up to you. Hopefully you guess right and if not you'll have plenty of time to brush up on the age old skill of bartering.

emt1581
10-14-2010, 11:07
Nope, I agree that the greenback is dropping like a rock. Me thinks something is afoot. I'll know for sure in about three weeks.

Tangibles are king. The priority you assign to different classes of tangibles is up to you. Hopefully you guess right and if not you'll have plenty of time to brush up on the age old skill of bartering.

Personally, I'm pouring a ton of money into home repairs. That way, other than needing electricity and water, I'm as independent as possible.

But aside from that, there are several tangibles which have proven themselves in bad times, some we've been talking about for a long time.

-Emt1581

wjv
10-14-2010, 16:15
Stacks of bills just in case of a SHTF. However, given that the SHTF seems likely to be those bills becoming worthless...I'm not sure that is the best idea any more.

-Emt1581

Didn't say "stacks" of bills. In any currency crisis there will likely be a time when you will have zero access to your money in the bank (bank holiday / bank closings). Odds are that debit can credit cards will also be frozen. During the early days no one will take PMs. You will need to go to a dealer, cash in you PMs, then spend the money.

It is much easier if you have $500 or so stashed away in the safe that you can quickly access so that you can buy a tank full of gas and a trunk full of food. Despite the dollar crashing, there will always be people willing to take worthless pieces of paper, just as they have been trained to do all their lives.

emt1581
10-14-2010, 16:21
Didn't say "stacks" of bills. In any currency crisis there will likely be a time when you will have zero access to your money in the bank (bank holiday / bank closings). Odds are that debit can credit cards will also be frozen. During the early days no one will take PMs. You will need to go to a dealer, cash in you PMs, then spend the money.

It is much easier if you have $500 or so stashed away in the safe that you can quickly access so that you can buy a tank full of gas and a trunk full of food. Despite the dollar crashing, there will always be people willing to take worthless pieces of paper, just as they have been trained to do all their lives.

Ohhhh ok...I was thinking like stacks of $20's and maybe 5-10 grand worth.

-Emt1581

Dennis in MA
10-14-2010, 19:07
Does the Federal Reserve do its trading online through Scwab or Ameritrade or do they use a broker?

Where are the securities held?

Now yer just poking them with a sharp stick. :rofl:


Question for the masses: If the government controls the stock market, why did it go from 1525 to 677 in less than 2 years???? Or is it like the DMV - they are only in control when it's for evil. When they are inept, it doesn't count?

It's puff puff PASS, dewds.


And boy do I wish I had bot some silver at $9 - just to sell it to people now. Making near a triple on my $ would have been cool. I'm only up 35% or so on my BP.

Dennis in MA
10-14-2010, 19:08
Oh, and one more thing: Is it better to have a strong dollar or a weak one?

Who wants to answer that. Seems the same people that rail against a falling dollar rail against the rising dollar, too. You can't have it both ways.


Dangit - I'm poking with my own sharp stick!

emt1581
10-14-2010, 19:37
And boy do I wish I had bot some silver at $9 - just to sell it to people now. Making near a triple on my $ would have been cool. I'm only up 35% or so on my BP.

Tell me about it! I wanted to buy Silver when it was just over $10. My broker told me it was a bad idea. I'm just glad I went against what he said and bought when it was at $16-$18! It's not like I'm going to retire on the money I made...but at least if/when our USD becomes worthless, I'll have enough to buy some stuff.

Something I realized today. I've seen people over on a silver forum getting all tickled pink that their silver is shooting up in price. And I suppose if you have a few hundred pounds of it you can live quite comfortably. But the more USD's an ounce costs, the less the USD is worth. The value of PM's pretty much remain constant. But in the grand scheme of things, screw the few extra bucks silver holders are making, I'm thinking things are about to get UGLY!

-Emt1581

VBG23
10-14-2010, 21:35
Question for the masses: If the government controls the stock market, why did it go from 1525 to 677 in less than 2 years???? Or is it like the DMV - they are only in control when it's for evil. When they are inept, it doesn't count?


Who said specifically the government controls the stock market? I believe what I said was that it was manipulated. Now I will admit we are approaching a collusion between corporate and government that approaches the definition of facism, so yea they do have a hand in it but once again you paraphrase incorrectly to deflect from the fact that you have no facts.

To actually answer a question you posed: because bubbles must burst; period. The housing market was an artifical bubble inflated by government intrusion into the free market (Community Reinvestment Act) and banks (private) using creative and down right dishonest methods of qualifying people for loans they shouldn't get but the government believes they should. Keeping interest rates far too low for far too long by the Fed (public/private entity) kept the easy money flowing into homes. Banks then take advantage of the bubble and package all sorts of mortgage backed securities that are billed by the rating agencies (private) as being iron-clad AAA investments. So the artifical bubble was created by a collection of private and government entities.

There are all sorts of factors that lead to manipulation, and to answer your other smart-***** question: even the highs are due to government ineptitude. They try to directly intervene into earn votes and keep their jobs, and in doing so they push things way too high way too fast and screw with the freemarket system to the point of no return.

Everything that occurs naturally finds a natural equilibrium on its own without outside influence. There are way, WAY too many factors and systems and individuals to effectively control an entire eco-system. The same goes for the free market system as it is intended to exist.

You liberals love to scream about how we are damaging the environment with our pollution and even a small amount of pollution will eventually build up and destroy the eco-system. Well the free market is the exact same way. It is a delicate eco-system that even a small amount of artifical interference will damage. We have screwed with the free market for so long and so thoroughly we have polluted it beyond repair.

VBG23
10-14-2010, 21:41
So are you just gonna mock or are you going to answer an actual question?

If you don't buy the "manipulation" theory, why is it that insider trading shows over 1000-1 are withdrawing money and mutual funds have been hemoraging cash as everyday people are pulling their money out as well.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/pag...ate-hit-80-bil
So if everyone is pulling money out of the market so fast, how is it still going up?



How can more people be withdrawing money from the market than putting into it for 23 consecutive months at the same time the market continues to rise?

Does supply and demand no longer apply?

Big Bird
10-15-2010, 16:05
Pay attention, Dennis.

Don't believe the markets are rigged by our own government?

Executive Order 12631 signed by Ronald Reagan in 1988. The "President's Working Group On Financial Markets". We know them as the "Plunge Protection Team". Guess who is on that team: The Secretary of the Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, The Chairman of the Security and Exchange Commission, and the Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.

And what do you think it is they do?

In this crucial upcoming election, TPTB can see the writing on the wall and I bet they are pulling out all the stops to keep this market solvent...at least until after the elections.

SC

You used a chart that election Years outperform average years since 1900 as proof that the "Plunge Protection Team" started by President Reagan's Executive Order in 1988 manipulates markets?

Can I give you a hint? 1988 was the last year of Reagan's second term. Even if he could have maipulated markets with his working group he couldn't run for a third term... So what was his motive?

SilverCity
10-15-2010, 16:38
You used a chart that election Years outperform average years since 1900 as proof that the "Plunge Protection Team" started by President Reagan's Executive Order in 1988 manipulates markets?

Can I give you a hint? 1988 was the last year of Reagan's second term. Even if he could have maipulated markets with his working group he couldn't run for a third term... So what was his motive?

His handlers made him sign it. They knew his judgement was affected by his Alzheimers disease, and simply waited for an opportune moment.

Source: Bob Chapman

http://theinternationalforecaster.com/

http://bobchapman.blogspot.com/

Bob was his neighbor in Malibu, and was a close, personal friend. When Bob asked Ron why he appointed all those CFR folks to key cabinet positions, his response was, "They'd kill me if I didn't. They are the ones who got me elected".

What were his handlers motives? Your guess is as good as any...

Control of the markets, maybe?

By the way, this behind-the-scenes control of US presidents has been going on for at least 100 years. Research the Banking Act of 1913, which established the Federal Reserve. What did they have on "Woody" Wilson to make him sign that bill? A dalliance with a young coed when he was President of Princeton University.

When asked by a reporter why he signed the Emergency Banking Act of 1933, which closed banks and outlawed gold ownership, FDR said candidly, "That's what I was told to do."

Read "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin; watch "The Money Masters" DVD and get an education about the international banking cartel's role in geopolitics over the last 200 years, for starters.

Then, maybe we can talk.

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
- Henry Ford



SC

1 old 0311
10-15-2010, 16:43
I am glad as heck I have 387 ounces sitting in a safe deposit box. When it hits $30 I MAY dump it.

1 old 0311
10-15-2010, 16:48
. . . fed pumps up the market before an election. :rofl: That's a new one on me.


Don't know about the Fed but the Saudi's have dropped oil prices prior to every Presidential election since Nixon.

VBG23
10-15-2010, 17:00
Can I give you a hint? 1988 was the last year of Reagan's second term. Even if he could have maipulated markets with his working group he couldn't run for a third term... So what was his motive?

Is this a serious question given the current midterms? If the markets tank during an election year, whatever party is in power has a tendency to lose. It isn't Reagan or Carter or Obama or Bush, it is the Democratic party or the Republican party and whichever party the buisness world thinks will be beneficial.

A rising market is not a guaranteed win, but a sinking market is a huge weight around the neck of whatever political party lays claim to the guy in office.

emt1581
10-15-2010, 17:31
I am glad as heck I have 387 ounces sitting in a safe deposit box. When it hits $30 I MAY dump it.

When it hits $30 that's probably an indication you want to HOLD it...not dump it.

As I said before, once it gets higher and higher in relation to the dollar, that's not a good thing. I means were are about to be or are already in some serious s***.

-Emt1581

Dennis in MA
10-15-2010, 17:40
Tell me about it! I wanted to buy Silver when it was just over $10. My broker told me it was a bad idea. I'm just glad I went against what he said and bought when it was at $16-$18! It's not like I'm going to retire on the money I made...but at least if/when our USD becomes worthless, I'll have enough to buy some stuff.

Something I realized today. I've seen people over on a silver forum getting all tickled pink that their silver is shooting up in price. And I suppose if you have a few hundred pounds of it you can live quite comfortably. But the more USD's an ounce costs, the less the USD is worth. The value of PM's pretty much remain constant. But in the grand scheme of things, screw the few extra bucks silver holders are making, I'm thinking things are about to get UGLY!

-Emt1581

Assuming you are buying stuff with silver.

Wheat - not going up in price.

TV's - not going up in price.

Automobiles - not going up in price.

If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.

Dennis in MA
10-15-2010, 17:44
So are you just gonna mock or are you going to answer an actual question?



How can more people be withdrawing money from the market than putting into it for 23 consecutive months at the same time the market continues to rise?

Does supply and demand no longer apply?

You really don't understand how the stock market works, do you?

I'm not being sarcastic. You just don't. Take a search on Morningstar surveys of average investor returns and you might find an answer.

Dennis in MA
10-15-2010, 17:45
Who said specifically the government controls the stock market?

THIS GUY!

Pay attention, Dennis.

Don't believe the markets are rigged by our own government?


:rofl:

emt1581
10-15-2010, 17:56
Assuming you are buying stuff with silver.

Wheat - not going up in price.

TV's - not going up in price.

Automobiles - not going up in price.

If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.

I'm not sure I understand you there. I mean, my whole point is that, if silver is going up in price in relation to the dollar it's not a great thing unless you are sitting on a mountain of silver and are also able to stay away from any rioting/riff raff that might be happening as a result of the bad economic times.

But are you saying that if things aren't going up in price...but silver is...cash some in and buy stuff or what?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

1 old 0311
10-15-2010, 18:04
When it hits $30 that's probably an indication you want to HOLD it...not dump it.

As I said before, once it gets higher and higher in relation to the dollar, that's not a good thing. I means were are about to be or are already in some serious s***.

-Emt1581


I have checked e-bay gold, and silver, prices at least daily for many years. Today silver sold a few times for $30 per ounce, and the 20 Franc Swiss Gold Coins were going for $290. Crazy prices but there is only about 20% of the sellers there usually is. Looks like those that have it are sitting tight, and those that want it will pay a premium.

Silver is being sold for 20%+ over spot, and gold at $1371, todays close, is getting close to those numbers.

Looks like a LOT of people are scared to death of Obama's "CHANGE" and are heading to the lifeboats.:wow::wow::wow:

SilverCity
10-15-2010, 18:04
Assuming you are buying stuff with silver.

Wheat - not going up in price.

TV's - not going up in price.

Automobiles - not going up in price.

If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.

FACTS trump opinions: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm

And we ALL know cost increases are passed on to the consumer.


SC

JKDGabe
10-15-2010, 18:28
If there was this crazy "inflation" thing going on, then you'd be all set.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...g-nuclear.html (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/bernanke-im-going-nuclear.html)

schild
10-15-2010, 18:28
I am glad as heck I have 387 ounces sitting in a safe deposit box. When it hits $30 I MAY dump it.

I wouldn't keep anything valuable in a safe deposit box, if the government seized gold one time doesn't mean they won't seize silver next time.

emt1581
10-15-2010, 18:30
I wouldn't keep anything valuable in a safe deposit box, if the government seized gold one time doesn't mean they won't seize silver next time.

Excellent point and also the reason I will never pay for one.

-Emt1581

JK-linux
10-15-2010, 18:44
So, the idea is to use silver as money to buy things in a SHTF scenario?
And, if there is a huge crisis and the banks slam the doors closed (ie: you can't get into the building) how do you get your silver out of the safety deposit box?
If things are so dire that currency has broken down completely, who would be willing to take silver -vs- gasoline or wheat or whatever as payment?
If things broke down to where currency didn't work anymore, how would silver trade in exchange for goods work? Someone would have to want your silver it to use for something else for it to be of value, and it would have to hold value in your particular area... correct?
You can cash in the silver at some point, but based on the above comments it would just be getting cashed in on worthless paper currency or notes.
I'm confused by the whole concept. I realize in history these things had value, but I'm not seeing how that translates into value in the future framed against a breakup of society, law and order.

emt1581
10-15-2010, 18:59
So, the idea is to use silver as money to buy things in a SHTF scenario?
And, if there is a huge crisis and the banks slam the doors closed (ie: you can't get into the building) how do you get your silver out of the safety deposit box?
If things are so dire that currency has broken down completely, who would be willing to take silver -vs- gasoline or wheat or whatever as payment?
If things broke down to where currency didn't work anymore, how would silver trade in exchange for goods work? Someone would have to want your silver it to use for something else for it to be of value, and it would have to hold value in your particular area... correct?
You can cash in the silver at some point, but based on the above comments it would just be getting cashed in on worthless paper currency or notes.
I'm confused by the whole concept. I realize in history these things had value, but I'm not seeing how that translates into value in the future framed against a breakup of society, law and order.

I'll be honest, up until about a month or two ago, I was confused as well...and I figured usable/consumable goods would be far more desired than PM's. But really, PM's have been an agreed upon hold of value for thousands of years. So yes, I believe they will be a good currency compared to paper which just symbolizes value.

What still confuses me is how someone will establish an agreed upon value of the PM. The typical response is "supply and demand". But someone who's in a jam and about to die without water might pay 20oz. of gold for one bottle of water....is that even remotely a fair deal? Wouldn't the person about to die be better off just plugging the guy over charging? And wouldn't the gouger deserve what he gets? These are questions and suggestions that are often frowned upon and scoffed at by a lot of PM holders...but no one can really offer an intelligent solution around gouging.

But aside from the gouging issue PM's really are an intelligent way to do business. Think about it...it's an element. No exchange rates, no currencies to worry about losing/gaining "value", etc. It's universal.

Think about life now though...is money all you need? Hell no!! You need food/water, shelter, some money, guns/ammo, medical supplies, etc...you'll need the exact same supplies should the SHTF.

Back to your view of the future let me ask this. If something has had value for thousands of years, is valuable now, why would it be worthless in the future?

-Emt1581

1 old 0311
10-15-2010, 19:33
I wouldn't keep anything valuable in a safe deposit box, if the government seized gold one time doesn't mean they won't seize silver next time.

They did demand that AMERICAN gold coins be turned in. Coins with collector value were exempt, which is why I am hot on the 20 Franc French, Swiss, and Belgium coins. They are collectors pieces but have very little, less than 10%, over spot prices. Also the fractional coins would be easier to barter, if need be, and would slide under the radar with the new $600 limit Obama attached to his Health Care Bill.

emt1581
10-15-2010, 19:36
They did demand that AMERICAN gold coins be turned in. Coins with collector value were exempt, which is why I am hot on the 20 Franc French, Swiss, and Belgium coins. They are collectors pieces but have very little, less than 10%, over spot prices. Also the fractional coins would be easier to barter, if need be, and would slide under the radar with the new $600 limit Obama attached to his Health Care Bill.


So what stops them from deleting the word American in a future bill?? And at that point is the average American even following what the gov. says anymore and just handing over their life savings??

-Emt1581

Big Bird
10-15-2010, 20:25
Is this a serious question given the current midterms? If the markets tank during an election year, whatever party is in power has a tendency to lose. It isn't Reagan or Carter or Obama or Bush, it is the Democratic party or the Republican party and whichever party the buisness world thinks will be beneficial.

A rising market is not a guaranteed win, but a sinking market is a huge weight around the neck of whatever political party lays claim to the guy in office.

OK then...well I guess they Democrats really screwed the pooch this go-round because they really haven't done very well in terms of manipulating the markets.

I mean seriously? If they can do it...why not do it all the time? Why not create perpetual prosperity? Why would any political party in power EVER let something like a Recession, Market down turn, Depression EVER happen? People would gladly vote in a party that could produce perpetual prosperity. So if they control the markets it begs the question...

Exactly HOW does the government prop up the stock market? Where do all these buy orders come from? Who holds the stock? After all major shareholders in public corporations are public record?

1 old 0311
10-15-2010, 20:37
So what stops them from deleting the word American in a future bill?? And at that point is the average American even following what the gov. says anymore and just handing over their life savings??

-Emt1581


Even with Bill Clinton (Ruby Ridge/Wayco/perjury) there was still a 'kind' of limit to what Presidential powers could be interpreted as. With Obama he has SAID and SHOWN there is NO limit to what he thinks his powers are limited to.

My cash, and metals, are safer in a safe deposit box, BUT if the political climate gets a bit dicy I am prepared, within minutes, to get out the shovel.:whistling:

emt1581
10-15-2010, 20:45
Even with Bill Clinton (Ruby Ridge/Wayco/perjury) there was still a 'kind' of limit to what Presidential powers could be interpreted as. With Obama he has SAID and SHOWN there is NO limit to what he thinks his powers are limited to.

My cash, and metals, are safer in a safe deposit box, BUT if the political climate gets a bit dicy I am prepared, within minutes, to get out the shovel.:whistling:

Can't the president issue executive orders for a LOT of things? I know some have time limits but in the mean time, what stops the initial order from being given?

I guess if you are prepared within maybe 5-10 minutes to go grab everything out of the box fine, but who says you'll have that long?

Personally, I think having a good secure vault at home is much safer so long as you layer your security (steel/concrete, security system, dog, guns, motion lighting, etc.). But to each his/her own.

-Emt1581

SilverCity
10-15-2010, 21:12
So what stops them from deleting the word American in a future bill?? And at that point is the average American even following what the gov. says anymore and just handing over their life savings??

-Emt1581

When they come for it, give them your copper and lead.


SC

emt1581
10-15-2010, 21:22
When they come for it, give them your copper and lead.


SC

Well yeah, but that's cutting to the chase. He threw out the whole idea of things being written on paper...

-Emt1581

SilverCity
10-15-2010, 21:56
Well yeah, but that's cutting to the chase. He threw out the whole idea of things being written on paper...

-Emt1581

1933 was a whole different ballgame. Gold was actually money ($20 Eagle) and the bankers could not inflate the money supply as long as the dollar was tied to something in limited supply. Much cheaper to cut the dollar loose...

BTW, few actually complied then, and I am sure Americans would never comply today.Very few (maybe 1-2%) hold bullion inside the country. Most hold it in paper form with the GLD or SLV.

The goonies are WAY more interested in approximately 3-5 TRILLION dollars currently held in IRA, 401Ks, and pension funds. In fact, we will probably see legislation enacted this year or next to confiscate ALL of the money and force people to take "govt. guaranteed" annuities in the form of U.S. treasuries in exchange. Maybe voluntary at first, then mandatory. The idea has been floated around in govt meetings for the past 2 years.

Get your money "off the grid" and out of their hands.



SC

emt1581
10-15-2010, 21:58
1933 was a whole different ballgame. Gold was actually money ($20 Eagle) and the bankers could not inflate the money supply as long as the dollar was tied to something in limited supply. Much cheaper to cut the dollar loose...

BTW, few actually complied then, and I am sure Americans would never comply today.Very few (maybe 1-2%) hold bullion inside the country. Most hold it in paper form with the GLD or SLV.

The goonies are WAY more interested in approximately 3-5 TRILLION dollars currently held in IRA, 401Ks, and pension funds. In fact, we will probably see legislation enacted this year or next to confiscate ALL of the money and force people to take "govt. guaranteed" annuities in the form of U.S. treasuries in exchange. Maybe voluntary at first, then mandatory.

The idea has been floated around in govt meetings for the past 2 years. Get your money "off the grid" and out of their hands.



SC

This is why I put most of my money into guns/ammo. It's a LOT harder to confiscate something that can kill you.

-Emt1581

JK-linux
10-15-2010, 22:07
I'll be honest, up until about a month or two ago, I was confused as well...and I figured usable/consumable goods would be far more desired than PM's. But really, PM's have been an agreed upon hold of value for thousands of years. So yes, I believe they will be a good currency compared to paper which just symbolizes value.

What still confuses me is how someone will establish an agreed upon value of the PM. The typical response is "supply and demand". But someone who's in a jam and about to die without water might pay 20oz. of gold for one bottle of water....is that even remotely a fair deal? Wouldn't the person about to die be better off just plugging the guy over charging? And wouldn't the gouger deserve what he gets? These are questions and suggestions that are often frowned upon and scoffed at by a lot of PM holders...but no one can really offer an intelligent solution around gouging.

But aside from the gouging issue PM's really are an intelligent way to do business. Think about it...it's an element. No exchange rates, no currencies to worry about losing/gaining "value", etc. It's universal.

Think about life now though...is money all you need? Hell no!! You need food/water, shelter, some money, guns/ammo, medical supplies, etc...you'll need the exact same supplies should the SHTF.

Back to your view of the future let me ask this. If something has had value for thousands of years, is valuable now, why would it be worthless in the future?

-Emt1581

Thanks for the info. I think I'll stick with stocking up on other things. I can't see myself selling extra food, wood or ammunition for pieces of metal, especially if there is no intrinsic use for it other than dentistry. Leads to the question of how to find a good dentist after the big one, and whether we'll just go back to pulling teeth instead of filling them. Not saying it would be worthless, just that I don't see it's worth personally. Good luck all.

emt1581
10-15-2010, 22:14
Thanks for the info. I think I'll stick with stocking up on other things. I can't see myself selling extra food, wood or ammunition for pieces of metal, especially if there is no intrinsic use for it other than dentistry. Leads to the question of how to find a good dentist after the big one, and whether we'll just go back to pulling teeth instead of filling them. Not saying it would be worthless, just that I don't see it's worth personally. Good luck all.

You should really search my threads. Seems like you have the same questions I have/had. Just last month I did one on the dentist issue...

-Emt1581

SilverCity
10-15-2010, 22:23
My dentist will accept gold and silver for dental work. Now if I could just find a doctor, a veterinarian, a car mechanic, grocer, etc. :supergrin:

emt1581
10-15-2010, 22:33
My dentist will accept gold and silver for dental work. Now if I could just find a doctor, a veterinarian, a car mechanic, grocer, etc. :supergrin:

Actually there was a guy on one of the forums I post on that was saying his vet DOES accept silver bullion.

-Emt1581

VBG23
10-16-2010, 05:34
[QUOTE=Dennis in MA;16148570]
Wheat - not going up in price.

[QUOTE]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-08/corn-soy-wheat-prices-to-surge-as-u-s-cuts-supply-outlook.html

:whistling:

VBG23
10-16-2010, 05:42
OK then...well I guess they Democrats really screwed the pooch this go-round because they really haven't done very well in terms of manipulating the markets.



I'm sure I have already said it, whether you want to listen or not. The free market cannot be held at bay for too long. What goes up must come down, bubbles burst; pick your cute little quip to explain it. The massive bubbles and busts we have been seeing for decades now is a direct result of trying to artificially push the markets and economy too high too fast without any firm foundation and the resulting correction.

This is why any market dip is usually referred to as a "correction." It went too high too fast due to whatever reason, and is now falling back in line with its true vaule.

The latest was caused by the sub-prime market explosion and resulting housing boom combined with lower than average interest rates and easy free money for anyone with a pen.

Doesn't matter how much anyone wants it to stay inflated, eventually artificially "robust" economies collapse back to reflect their fundamentals. The role of the Fed and every other financial agency is to reinflate the bubble as fast as possbile with low interest rates and stacks of devalued cash.

Big Bird
10-16-2010, 06:45
I'm sure I have already said it, whether you want to listen or not. The free market cannot be held at bay for too long. What goes up must come down, bubbles burst; pick your cute little quip to explain it. The massive bubbles and busts we have been seeing for decades now is a direct result of trying to artificially push the markets and economy too high too fast without any firm foundation and the resulting correction.

This is why any market dip is usually referred to as a "correction." It went too high too fast due to whatever reason, and is now falling back in line with its true vaule.

The latest was caused by the sub-prime market explosion and resulting housing boom combined with lower than average interest rates and easy free money for anyone with a pen.

Doesn't matter how much anyone wants it to stay inflated, eventually artificially "robust" economies collapse back to reflect their fundamentals. The role of the Fed and every other financial agency is to reinflate the bubble as fast as possbile with low interest rates and stacks of devalued cash.

Can't have it both ways. Either the government can control the markets or they can't. Your posts suggest they manipulate the markets every election cycle. That's every 2 years. So why would the markets sink at the end of the Clinton Presidency? Why would the markets suck during the ENTIRE Carter presidency? Why would FDR's third term STILL be mired in a Recession? Why would Ike's first term end in a Recession? If you say the markets corrected and the government couldn't do anything about it then you are by default admitting the the government isn't successful at controlling the markets...

I understand the relationship between a bubble and credit/money supply. But that's not the same thing as controlling markets. That's riding the wave. And if history is any guide it hasn't been done in any way shape or form to manipulate an election cycle. If you believe that I suggest you look at the current election cycle and PLEASE show me how the markets are working towards the Democrats benefit? How did the crash of the Tech Bubble in 2001 during the later part of the Clinton Administration benefit the Democrats and how come they couldn't manipulate it to their benefit?

Oh and BTW, nobody has yet addressed how a chart with a 110 year market history comparison validates the claim that Reagan's Executive Order signed in 1988 manipulates the stock market???? Which BTW pre-dates the whole CFR/Bilderberger nonsense...

UneasyRider
10-16-2010, 07:20
It's interesting to see silver and gold go so high after all of the PM debates that have gone on here. We are going to tank some day soon and when we do those PM's will keep going up. FerFal said that people in his country sold gold at $4,000 thinking that they had made a killing, but the currency that they put their profits in just kept inflating to 100 to 1 type numbers.

Hang on to your PM's.

Big Bird
10-16-2010, 07:28
It's interesting to see silver and gold go so high after all of the PM debates that have gone on here. We are going to tank some day soon and when we do those PM's will keep going up. FerFal said that people in his country sold gold at $4,000 thinking that they had made a killing, but the currency that they put their profits in just kept inflating to 100 to 1 type numbers.

Hang on to your PM's.

The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets. Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.

UneasyRider
10-16-2010, 07:50
The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets. Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.

If it did who cares. I am saying that getting out of PM's into inflating dollars is stupid IMHO, keep your PM's.

Big Bird
10-16-2010, 09:50
If it did who cares. I am saying that getting out of PM's into inflating dollars is stupid IMHO, keep your PM's.

To what end?

wonderwolf
10-16-2010, 10:34
It is much easier if you have $500 or so stashed away in the safe that you can quickly access so that you can buy a tank full of gas and a trunk full of food. Despite the dollar crashing, there will always be people willing to take worthless pieces of paper, just as they have been trained to do all their lives.

For the unprepared yeah that will work but if its anything long term then they only are buying themselves a little time. No point in chancing going on during that time to the super markets and gas stations if its going to be anything like black Friday...people get killed that way, and you put a dash of total collapse and panic in there, well.....

UneasyRider
10-16-2010, 11:29
To what end?

The PM's retain their purchasing power. Let's say that you bought 1 ounce of gold at $300 an ounce and 2 years later you can sell it for $3,000 an ounce. Sounds great right? But what if another 2 years later you can sell it for $30,000 an ounce, even better right?

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power. If you kept your money in your pocket then your $300 would buy 1% of what the you could have bought if you bought the gold coin. That is a net loss of purchasing power of 99%. Not good.

But wait you might have put that $300 in the bank earning interest, hey it's insured by the FDIC, what interest rate would the bank have to pay you to turn your $300 into $30,000 in 4 years? Where is the bank going to invest their money in order to get the needed return plus profit to do this for you?

I will keep my PM's, you may have a better investment and choose to keep it, I don't.

Big Bird
10-16-2010, 11:53
The PM's retain their purchasing power. Let's say that you bought 1 ounce of gold at $300 an ounce and 2 years later you can sell it for $3,000 an ounce. Sounds great right? But what if another 2 years later you can sell it for $30,000 an ounce, even better right?

Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power. If you kept your money in your pocket then your $300 would buy 1% of what the you could have bought if you bought the gold coin. That is a net loss of purchasing power of 99%. Not good.



But wait you might have put that $300 in the bank earning interest, hey it's insured by the FDIC, what interest rate would the bank have to pay you to turn your $300 into $30,000 in 4 years? Where is the bank going to invest their money in order to get the needed return plus profit to do this for you?

I will keep my PM's, you may have a better investment and choose to keep it, I don't.

In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

UneasyRider
10-16-2010, 13:01
In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

Hey gold isn't for everybody, but it is for me.

wjv
10-16-2010, 13:48
Now you may say what about the inflation rate during that time, the price of a banana and everything else went way up too. Well that would be the way that it works with inflation. But if you can still buy the same amount of bananas you maintained your purchasing power.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/bcvojak/RVNet3/Bread_01.jpg

1 old 0311
10-16-2010, 14:10
In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."


In 1985 Gold was also responding to it's VERY rapid rise. It took YEARS to get where it's at today.

emt1581
10-16-2010, 14:42
Something I was thinking about today and I figured I'd ask...

Does inflation exist with PM's? That is...if a suit cost one ounce of gold in 1900...should it still cost an ounce of gold today? Or do things get more expensive even if using PM's?

Furthermore, on an international level. Would the same suit cost the same ounce world-wide or would a suit be less and more depending on the location for some reason?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-16-2010, 14:43
In 1985 Gold went down in price over 50% in less than six months. It lost value. A lot of value. In a very short time frame. Will it happen again? Don't know. But its track record is a lot more volatility than is perceived for a "safe investment."

I guess it's a potato-pototo type of thing but it doesn't seem like PM's ever lose value...it's just that what they are being compared to gains/loses value.

-Emt1581

VBG23
10-16-2010, 15:15
Can't have it both ways. Either the government can control the markets or they can't. Your posts suggest they manipulate the markets every election cycle. That's every 2 years. So why would the markets sink at the end of the Clinton Presidency? Why would the markets suck during the ENTIRE Carter presidency? Why would FDR's third term STILL be mired in a Recession? Why would Ike's first term end in a Recession? If you say the markets corrected and the government couldn't do anything about it then you are by default admitting the the government isn't successful at controlling the markets...

I understand the relationship between a bubble and credit/money supply. But that's not the same thing as controlling markets. That's riding the wave. And if history is any guide it hasn't been done in any way shape or form to manipulate an election cycle. If you believe that I suggest you look at the current election cycle and PLEASE show me how the markets are working towards the Democrats benefit? How did the crash of the Tech Bubble in 2001 during the later part of the Clinton Administration benefit the Democrats and how come they couldn't manipulate it to their benefit?

Oh and BTW, nobody has yet addressed how a chart with a 110 year market history comparison validates the claim that Reagan's Executive Order signed in 1988 manipulates the stock market???? Which BTW pre-dates the whole CFR/Bilderberger nonsense...

I never said it was solely Democrats, and I never said it was solely government. I expressly said it was both parties and a combination of private and government entities. And if you understand bubble and bust then you understand someone has to inflate the bubble and the bust is the natural reprecussion. Whatever party is in power tries to inflate the bubble and prolong the good times until it finally bursts and whatever party is in power has to deal with it.

Don't start throwing Bilderberger and Tri-lateral commission stuff at me because I never mentioned that. All you are trying to do is minimize my argument without providing facts by trying to link what I am saying to conspiracy theories.

VBG23
10-16-2010, 15:24
The price of Gold has had almost no correlation with inflation for the last 32 years according to a study by Ibbotson. Take Gold's high point in 1985 at $850 an ounce and today it would have to be worth over $2,200 an ounce to just keep up with inflation. Forget the high point--take the average price of the 80's and the metal still hasn't kept pace with inflation Over the last three years the price of Gold has gone up dramatically. Yet inflation has been below 2% for most of that time.
The price of Gold is reasonably correlated with the value of the dollar on the world's currency markets.

How exactly do you reconcile those two statements? There is no correlation between inflation and gold, but gold is a good hedge against decline in the value of the dollar?

in·fla·tion
NOUN:

-The act of inflating or the state of being inflated.
-A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.


Since it seems clear that the current administration is going to pursue a weak dollar strategy to help prop up manufacturing its not unreasonable to use Gold as a hedge.

I actually agre 100% with you, but this statement seems contrary to your other arguments so I am a bit confused. A decline in the value of the dollar is a major cause of inflation. So either gold is a good hedge against inflation or it is not.

ElPasoGlock
10-16-2010, 16:30
I really must laugh when I read stories of people pouring tons of investment money into gold and silver, which by the way, are intrinsically worthless. Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.

It is artificial demand that makes the value, just like diamonds whose value is tightly controlled by one major cartel (Debeers).

You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.

You lawyers out there are screwed! So keep buying that precious metal and I'll keep buying some lead.

UneasyRider
10-16-2010, 16:56
I really must laugh when I read stories of people pouring tons of investment money into gold and silver, which by the way, are intrinsically worthless. Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.

It is artificial demand that makes the value, just like diamonds whose value is tightly controlled by one major cartel (Debeers).

You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.

You lawyers out there are screwed! So keep buying that precious metal and I'll keep buying some lead.

Like any investment we can judge it by the results when all is said and done.

Big Bird
10-16-2010, 18:48
How exactly do you reconcile those two statements? There is no correlation between inflation and gold, but gold is a good hedge against decline in the value of the dollar?

in·fla·tion
NOUN:

-The act of inflating or the state of being inflated.
-A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.



I actually agre 100% with you, but this statement seems contrary to your other arguments so I am a bit confused. A decline in the value of the dollar is a major cause of inflation. So either gold is a good hedge against inflation or it is not.

Inflation in economic terms deals with the supply of money and the increase in prices related to that money supply. (or not)

The value of the dollar relative to other currencies is a different matter. For example the Chinese maintain a weak Yuan exchange rate to support their economies reliance on exports. But the relationship in price of the Yuan to the dollar has little to do with inflation. Likewise, the value of the Euro relative to the dollar has dropped--again less to do with the money supply and more a reflection of relative economic strength...

If you look at it a different way, gold is a proxy currency that is perceived to be a better risk than the dollar right now. When the dollar sags on the international markets gold increases in price and vice versa. While monetary inflation can certainly affect the pricing of money on the international markets there are a ton of other economic factors that will influence the price movement of currencies relative to each other. And again, if you consider that the dollar has moved a great deal over the last 32 years relative to other currencies then the fact that gold didn't move when we had periods of high inflation during that same period should tell you that inflation doesn't move the relative value of the dollar to other currencies.

fatboy148
10-17-2010, 07:49
[QUOTE=ElPasoGlock;16152964] Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.



You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc. QUOTE]

The first statement is why is does have perceived value.

In the second statement, untill 1964, it was the basis used to make all payments in the US! There are many businesses and people out there today that have a green American dollar price and another one for pre64 silver.

I do agree with what you said in the balance of the second statement.

1 old 0311
10-17-2010, 13:57
I really must laugh when I read stories of people pouring tons of investment money into gold and silver, which by the way, are intrinsically worthless. Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.

It is artificial demand that makes the value, just like diamonds whose value is tightly controlled by one major cartel (Debeers).

You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.

You lawyers out there are screwed! So keep buying that precious metal and I'll keep buying some lead.

I will. Thanks!:wavey:

emt1581
10-17-2010, 17:15
Something I was thinking about today and I figured I'd ask...

Does inflation exist with PM's? That is...if a suit cost one ounce of gold in 1900...should it still cost an ounce of gold today? Or do things get more expensive even if using PM's?

Furthermore, on an international level. Would the same suit cost the same ounce world-wide or would a suit be less and more depending on the location for some reason?

Thanks!

-Emt1581


Anyone?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

UneasyRider
10-17-2010, 18:21
Anyone?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

I think that all products are adjusting their value every day. Like a cotton shirt that got better in quality and cheaper to purchase do to advances in technologies. Compared to gold over time it would have changed it's reletive value. I think that it's like that for just about everything. There are a lot of other things that would change a products relative value, such as when they have competition from from a newly developed product.

So IMHO PM's are what they are and like all products they will change in relative value when compared to anything else and that would mean inflation and deflation depending what you compare it to and at what time.

1 old 0311
10-17-2010, 18:40
Anyone?

Thanks!

-Emt1581


In the early 1900's when gold was $20 a ounce that was about 1/2 weeks pay. Till a few years ago gold was $200 also 1/2 weeks pay. Today, at $1374 it is obviously way past that.

G29Reload
10-17-2010, 18:42
I really must laugh when I read stories of people pouring tons of investment money into gold and silver, which by the way, are intrinsically worthless. Silver has some uses but gold has very few. It is difficult and expensive to mine, process, and extracting the gold produces tons of toxic waste.

It is artificial demand that makes the value, just like diamonds whose value is tightly controlled by one major cartel (Debeers).

You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.

You lawyers out there are screwed! So keep buying that precious metal and I'll keep buying some lead.

For TEOTWAWKI, maybe. But for transitory SHTF events, even if they cover a decade or two, if theres a recovery cycle where we come back online with a stable fiat currency to trade in again, pms will certainly be an excellent holding tank to later convert into working paper that people recognize and trade in. foolish to not have at least a small chunk for backup.

marlinfan
10-17-2010, 19:51
GOLD AND SILVER ARE WORTHLESS* AND YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD.:rofl:






*this statement is true only if you ignore the last 5000 years. Gold and silver ARE money. The toilet paper we are forced to use currently for the exchange of goods and services is the invention of the demonic Federal Reserve.

emt1581
10-17-2010, 19:54
GOLD AND SILVER ARE WORTHLESS* AND YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD.:rofl:






*this statement is true only if you ignore the last 5000 years. Gold and silver ARE money. The toilet paper we are forced to use currently for the exchange of goods and services is the invention of the demonic Federal Reserve.

Actually I think Gold is edible.

-Emt1581

RKB2A
10-17-2010, 20:57
Anyone?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

For informational purposes...

In 1873 when Sam Colt introcuded his Colt Peacemaker, you could buy one for 1 $20 Double Eagle (.9675 Troy Oz gold), today you can buy one for one $50 US Gold Eagle (one Troy Oz gold) and have a little change left over.

Just say'n....

kirgi08
10-17-2010, 23:12
You can't eat gold or silver and if there was no more economy I certainly wouldn't accept it as payment. The new currency of a devastated economy will be ammunition, food, water, weapons, antibiotics, or barter skills like blacksmithing, dentistry, medicine, etc.


There will be folks that have over stocked with the purpose of starting a barter economy,if one has no need of manual skills offered how will the market work,PMs.Would I trade a gold coin for a loaf of bread,no I wouldn't,I'd be far more willing ta part with a silver dime.'08.

emt1581
10-18-2010, 09:03
I think that all products are adjusting their value every day. Like a cotton shirt that got better in quality and cheaper to purchase do to advances in technologies. Compared to gold over time it would have changed it's reletive value. I think that it's like that for just about everything. There are a lot of other things that would change a products relative value, such as when they have competition from from a newly developed product.

So IMHO PM's are what they are and like all products they will change in relative value when compared to anything else and that would mean inflation and deflation depending what you compare it to and at what time.

I sort of see what you mean but at the same time it seems like some things cancel each other out...

Quality improves but it gets cheaper to produce...shouldn't the price go down?

New products are released but there's competition in the marketplace...again..shouldn't the price go down?

But overall, I can see a LOT of things that haven't changed (much) in the last 50 years and yet the prices aren't what they used to be exponentially speaking.

Thanks!

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-18-2010, 09:06
In the early 1900's when gold was $20 a ounce that was about 1/2 weeks pay. Till a few years ago gold was $200 also 1/2 weeks pay. Today, at $1374 it is obviously way past that.

But there you are comparing something steady/constant (gold) to the USD. I mean I see what you're saying but I'm saying if you take the USD out of the equation and just return to PM's for currency.

It is interesting to think about though. There's a video on youtube where someone took the average weekly paycheck and showed how much silver you could have bought with it. Sometimes it was PILES of silver, right now, it's a few pieces. But still worth looking at!

Thanks!

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-18-2010, 09:10
For informational purposes...

In 1873 when Sam Colt introcuded his Colt Peacemaker, you could buy one for 1 $20 Double Eagle (.9675 Troy Oz gold), today you can buy one for one $50 US Gold Eagle (one Troy Oz gold) and have a little change left over.

Just say'n....

Now that is interesting...because you're using something with collectible value to it.

I wonder if this could be said....? In 1873 you could buy the best gun on the market for an ounce of Gold and today the same is true. I mean back in the day the peacemaker was pretty much the Glock/1911 of it's time...no? And today $1200 will buy you a VERY nice pistol.

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-18-2010, 09:13
There will be folks that have over stocked with the purpose of starting a barter economy,if one has no need of manual skills offered how will the market work,PMs.Would I trade a gold coin for a loaf of bread,no I wouldn't,I'd be far more willing ta part with a silver dime.'08.

Right, this is the concept I just accepted...that PM's are a univerally accepted storage of value/wealth.

The part I still don't accept is that there will be no gougers in life/death situations...regardless of there being a free market.

-Emt1581

kirgi08
10-19-2010, 00:12
Right, this is the concept I just accepted...that PM's are a universally accepted storage of value/wealth.

The part I still don't accept is that there will be no gougers in life/death situations...regardless of there being a free market.

-Emt1581

Your missing the point,in a shtf "scenario" there is really no "free" market.There is a "barter" economy that is unknown.What is the base and what is the pillar.The barter economy can go 2 ways,either a FTF type or a "market" type,the "FTF" is neighbors trading,the "market" type is always at risk for a single entity ta control.'08.

emt1581
10-19-2010, 06:17
Your missing the point,in a shtf "scenario" there is really no "free" market.There is a "barter" economy that is unknown.What is the base and what is the pillar.The barter economy can go 2 ways,either a FTF type or a "market" type,the "FTF" is neighbors trading,the "market" type is always at risk for a single entity ta control.'08.

FTF= Face To Face?

It sounds like my concerns are not unfounded because you said there is a chance it could happen...and sounds like a 50/50 chance at that. Either people will do good business or they won't, and going a step further, if they won't...who's going to stop them?

-Emt1581

Careby
10-19-2010, 06:29
Barter is always based on the needs of the parties. Let's say I'm a hungry old man with a stockpile of .22LR ammo. A young man with a rifle may be willing to trade me rabbits for ammo. How many rounds of ammo is a rabbit worth? Certainly more than one, since it takes one to shoot the rabbit. Two would allow the hunter to shoot one rabbit for me and one for his family, but wouldn't allow for misses or practice. We'll eventually agree on an exchange rate that works for both of us. If there is more than one hunter or more than one ammo trader in town we'll have to be competitive. Neither of us will have any real need for silver unless and until it becomes accepted as money in our local economy, as it probably will as time goes on.

(The moral of the story is no matter how much silver you have, always have a pile of ammo, too.)

VBG23
10-19-2010, 06:43
Oh, and pertaining to market manipulation:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/visualizing-pomo-market-how-fed-added-400-points-sp

emt1581
10-19-2010, 06:57
Barter is always based on the needs of the parties. Let's say I'm a hungry old man with a stockpile of .22LR ammo. A young man with a rifle may be willing to trade me rabbits for ammo. How many rounds of ammo is a rabbit worth? Certainly more than one, since it takes one to shoot the rabbit. Two would allow the hunter to shoot one rabbit for me and one for his family, but wouldn't allow for misses or practice. We'll eventually agree on an exchange rate that works for both of us. If there is more than one hunter or more than one ammo trader in town we'll have to be competitive. Neither of us will have any real need for silver unless and until it becomes accepted as money in our local economy, as it probably will as time goes on.

(The moral of the story is no matter how much silver you have, always have a pile of ammo, too.)

Interesting comparison about the rabbit/ammo. But it sounded a little too easy going for my liking. What if a box or two is the going rate? What if you don't have that kid's caliber? I know everyone thinks that come TEOTWAWKI, everyone will have a .22lr gun...but what if they don't? They hunt everything with a .460S&W but will accept .45Colt and .454 Casull as well...

I just like playing devil's advocate and throwing wrenches in the works sometimes. But mainly because you specified .22lr. I'm not a believer in the idea that post SHTF, we'll be bartering with .22lr...even though I'm sitting on a mountain of it. :supergrin:

-Emt1581

Careby
10-19-2010, 12:34
...it sounded a little too easy going for my liking... What if you don't have that kid's caliber? ...I'm not a believer in the idea that post SHTF, we'll be bartering with .22lr...

Well of course for two people to trade when only one of them has what the other wants... that's where the need for money/currency arises. Something they can both agree on the value of, and can be used by the seller to later buy what he wants that the original buyer didn't have. I don't know if the money agreed upon will be silver, but that makes more sense than defunct paper money (although some will probably accept that out of habit or sentimentality). Some early forms of currency will probably be things with universal barter value, like bullets, matches, cigarettes, liquor, toilet paper. Then later things with intrinsic non-utilitarian value like precious metals or gems, eventually evolving into stuff with only symbolic value, like our Federal Reserve Notes which require faith in the issuer.

G29Reload
10-19-2010, 19:50
In the early 1900's when gold was $20 a ounce that was about 1/2 weeks pay. Till a few years ago gold was $200 also 1/2 weeks pay. Today, at $1374 it is obviously way past that.

Um, no, that's about right.:cool:

emt1581
11-03-2010, 20:12
Make that 25.15!!

-Emt1581

marlinfan
11-04-2010, 03:46
I've got 100oz sitting in my safe that I think I paid around $10 for. If I sold at $1 under spot I'd.have enough money to put a new roof on my house and a new .22 for my kid for Christmas. Hmmm

Don H
11-04-2010, 09:57
http://www.themacrotrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/helicopter-ben-225x300.jpg

Don H
11-04-2010, 10:03
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rico-suit-filed-against-hsbc-and-jpmorgan-silver-market-manipulation

quake
11-04-2010, 10:14
...100oz... If I sold at $1 under spot I'd.have enough money to put a new roof on my house and a new .22 for my kid for Christmas. Hmmm

Expensive roof - isn't that around $130k or so? :dunno:

Don H
11-04-2010, 10:20
Expensive roof - isn't that around $130k or so? :dunno:

:headscratch:

racerford
11-04-2010, 10:25
Expensive roof - isn't that around $130k or so? :dunno:

I am glad you are not my accountant. It would be nice if you were paying me though. :whistling:

quake
11-04-2010, 10:52
http://www.themacrotrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/helicopter-ben-225x300.jpg

Makes me think of Zardoz.
http://www.cinemademerde.com/Zardoz-head.gif

:sad:

crimsonaudio
11-04-2010, 10:54
Expensive roof - isn't that around $130k or so? :dunno:

100oz @ ~$25/oz ≠ $130k, more like $2,500.

Inexpensive roof.

quake
11-04-2010, 11:09
I am glad you are not my accountant. It would be nice if you were paying me though. :whistling:
No, my math skills are fine. It's my attention span that's lacking - I was thinking about gold, but the thread is about silver.
I is not overly bright sometimes... :therapy:


Never mind; nothing to see here... :toilet:

marlinfan
11-04-2010, 11:10
Yea, heck I wish I had 100oz of gold sitting around. I wouldn't have a mortgage lol. And yea, I was figuring around $2000 for the metal roof if I do the labor myself, and another couple hundred to get my boy a 10/22 and a good scope.

1 old 0311
11-04-2010, 11:44
Actually as of today spot is $25.94:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

jlpskydive
11-04-2010, 13:28
Actually as of today spot is $25.94:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

Over $26 now.

Don H
11-04-2010, 14:12
Will soon be over $30 per oz.....

jlpskydive
11-04-2010, 14:14
Will soon be over $30 per oz.....

At the rate it's climbing right now that could be this afternoon....:wow:

1 old 0311
11-04-2010, 14:39
Will soon be over $30 per oz.....


Yes but according to a few on here we were FOOLISH to but at $10 per ounce. Wonder where they are today?:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Warp
11-04-2010, 14:49
So the roosevelt dimes I picked up for $1.00 each now contain $1.90 in silver (spot value) while my eagles, purchased around $14-$16, have a spot value over $26.

Not bad. Definitely a better direction than the FRNs sitting next to them. :(

emt1581
11-04-2010, 15:02
Is our currency (USD) seriously becoming less valuable by the hour now??

-Emt1581

PBCounty
11-04-2010, 16:47
I'm paying about seven dollars more per silver eagle this week week than I was paying three weeks ago (individual coins on e-bay).

jlpskydive
11-04-2010, 16:57
Is our currency (USD) seriously becoming less valuable by the hour now??

-Emt1581

Ummmm, Yes I think so.....

schild
11-04-2010, 18:54
11/4/10- My Silver value went up just under $2k today, gold was up almost 1k.
YMMV.

UneasyRider
11-04-2010, 19:26
Is our currency (USD) seriously becoming less valuable by the hour now??

-Emt1581

YES! You don't want to blink when your watching your money today... it may disappear while your eyes were closed. :shocked:

emt1581
11-04-2010, 19:29
YES! You don't want to blink when your watching your money today... it may disappear while your eyes were closed. :shocked:

According to Beck, it was yesterday that the fed started printing more money or at least putting the plan into practice. Sort of seems like the 1-2 point raise within 24hrs would be based on skepticism/fear. Can you imagine what will happen when reality sets in across the board??

Not trying to be a chicken little but I think that SHTF we talk about all the time isn't far off...

-Emt1581

PBCounty
11-04-2010, 20:45
26.52 as of this posting.

emt1581
11-04-2010, 20:47
26.52 as of this posting.

Yup...jumped .50 in the last few minutes...

I'm betting $28 by next week...

Seriously, isn't anyone else worried??

-Emt1581

Warp
11-04-2010, 21:08
Yup...jumped .50 in the last few minutes...

I'm betting $28 by next week...

Seriously, isn't anyone else worried??

-Emt1581

Not overly worried, no

VBG23
11-04-2010, 21:09
Yup...jumped .50 in the last few minutes...

I'm betting $28 by next week...

Seriously, isn't anyone else worried??

-Emt1581

I just resurrected my thread about a parabolic rise in PMs being a sign......


I'm just sayin.....

emt1581
11-05-2010, 14:59
Not overly worried, no

Why not?

-Emt1581

Warp
11-05-2010, 16:42
Why not?

-Emt1581

I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss this on the level of this thread.

And I am generally skeptical of the chicken little S/P threads. I've seen so many "the sky is going to fall" or "is anyone else worried?" or "something is going to happen here" discussions in this forum I couldn't even begin to recall them all. And none have panned out.

Except Katrina. But that was a pretty easy call to make once we saw how god damn big it was.

emt1581
11-05-2010, 16:46
I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss this on the level of this thread.

And I am generally skeptical of the chicken little S/P threads. I've seen so many "the sky is going to fall" or "is anyone else worried?" or "something is going to happen here" discussions in this forum I couldn't even begin to recall them all. And none have panned out.

Except Katrina. But that was a pretty easy call to make once we saw how god damn big it was.

Silver's going up by the hour and I'm not seeing any solutions to the problem of the crashing dollar. And our currency becoming worthless is just the tip of the iceburg and it's not a premonition/idea...it's actually happening.

But I do respect your initial statement. Just pointing out the facts of the past few days.

-Emt1581

Warp
11-05-2010, 16:53
Silver's going up by the hour and I'm not seeing any solutions to the problem of the crashing dollar. And our currency becoming worthless is just the tip of the iceburg and it's not a premonition/idea...it's actually happening.

But I do respect your initial statement. Just pointing out the facts of the past few days.

-Emt1581

On 10/13 you posted that silver was over $24/oz.

Now it is 11/5 and it is up to about $26.80.

That is 23 days to go up a little over $2, or less tha 10%.

Saying that it is rising by the hour, even if it is (slightly) doing so, comes off as a bit of a dramatization

emt1581
11-05-2010, 16:58
On 10/13 you posted that silver was over $24/oz.

Now it is 11/5 and it is up to about $26.80.

That is 23 days to go up about 2, or less tha 10%.

Yes and compare that to what it was doing a few years ago when it might go up or down a point every few months. And, again, look what's happened in the last 48-72 hours...it's gone up more than that few points it did in that 23 days you pointed out.

Me personally, in order to not be worried I'd want some sort of rational solution to the government/economy's issue...but maybe I'm missing one that's been revealed. Did you get wind of any?

EDIT: I caught your edit. Saying it's going up by the hour in the past few days....prove me wrong. My proof is the graph on the www.apmex.com page...what's yours?

-Emt1581

Warp
11-05-2010, 17:48
EDIT: I caught your edit. Saying it's going up by the hour in the past few days....prove me wrong. My proof is the graph on the www.apmex.com page...what's yours?

-Emt1581

Read it again, then. You do not seem to have understood what I said.

In the past 24 hours it appears to be up $0.60. That is about 2% on the day. That is certainly significant, but it isn't enough to make me think the sky is falling.

emt1581
11-05-2010, 17:54
but it isn't enough to make me think the sky is falling.

Honestly, me either.

The REASON for that raise is what has me worried.

-Emt1581

1 old 0311
11-06-2010, 10:56
Honestly, me either.

The REASON for that raise is what has me worried.

-Emt1581


The amazing thing is that in spite of the gold, and silver prices, NOBODY is selling. I have been buying 20 Franc gold coins, and 1 ounce .999 silver rounds, and bars, for 10+ years on e-bay. I have N-E-V-E-R seen so few for sale.

Usually when prices rocket people are glad to take their profits. Now? I don't think profit is the motivation to sell but fear is the stronger reason not to sell.:wow:

emt1581
11-06-2010, 14:58
The amazing thing is that in spite of the gold, and silver prices, NOBODY is selling. I have been buying 20 Franc gold coins, and 1 ounce .999 silver rounds, and bars, for 10+ years on e-bay. I have N-E-V-E-R seen so few for sale.

Usually when prices rocket people are glad to take their profits. Now? I don't think profit is the motivation to sell but fear is the stronger reason not to sell.:wow:

Exactly!! My money (PM's) says something's happening now that's going to get VERY bad.

-Emt1581

Warp
11-06-2010, 15:01
Exactly!! My money (PM's) says something's happening now that's going to get VERY bad.

-Emt1581

I've never heard that stated on this forum before....

emt1581
11-06-2010, 15:07
I've never heard that stated on this forum before....

Me either...

Seriously, I understand when you're coming from, really I do. And I was there for a while. But if you look at certain moves the gov. has made during the past year or so, there is NO WAY to avoid a SHTF.

But I did open it up to suggestions in terms of solutions...but IIRC you didn't have any.

BTW, the problems (just a few) are...

1. Health Care
2. Debt, to the point that no other countries will help us out.
3. We are just printing more money, LOTS of it, in order to somehow solve problem #2.
4. Taxes are going to go WAY up.
5. Borders still aren't even remotely secured and terrorists are doing dry runs almost weekly in the air.

Now that's just a few off the top of my head. But any clue how we fix even one of those successfully? And even if you come up with something, do you realistically think the gov. is going to do the same thing?

-Emt1581

emt1581
11-06-2010, 15:27
Personally, I keep kicking myself for stocking up on a tons of guns/ammo instead of bullion. But then again, I'm pretty confident that guns/ammo/food/meds/and other essentials will be worth close to their weight in when the economy collapses and parts of society turn on the rest of us.

-Emt1581

SHOOTR13
11-06-2010, 16:06
When the SHTF, the people who own gold / silver / diamonds / Paste your Favorite here...will just have lumps of refined ore / shiny trickets.

Put your money into Water, Food, Guns and Ammo, and Shelter...you will be able to survive, protect what you have and or take what you need.

Just think, after the dust settles and you want to trade, barter, or even buy something you absolutely need, whadda ya gonna do with that gold bar, silver coin, diamond, whatever current currency when the item you're buying is not worth one hundreth or even a tenth of whatever you have to pay with...got change for a diamond ring, gold bar ? Come on...!!

emt1581
11-06-2010, 16:07
When the SHTF, the people who own gold / silver / diamonds / Paste your Favorite here...will just have lumps of refined ore / shiny trickets.

Put your money into Water, Food, Guns and Ammo, and Shelter...you will be able to survive, protect what you have and or take what you need.

Just think, after the dust settles and you want to trade, barter, or even buy something you absolutely need, whadda ya gonna do with that gold bar, silver coin, diamond, whatever current currency when the item you're buying is not worth one hundreth or even a tenth of whatever you have to pay with...got change for a diamond ring, gold bar ? Come on...!!

You might want to edit out that "take what you need part"...or put on a flame suit.

-Emt1581

1 old 0311
11-06-2010, 16:21
When the SHTF, the people who own gold / silver / diamonds / Paste your Favorite here...will just have lumps of refined ore / shiny trickets.

Put your money into Water, Food, Guns and Ammo, and Shelter...you will be able to survive, protect what you have and or take what you need.

Just think, after the dust settles and you want to trade, barter, or even buy something you absolutely need, whadda ya gonna do with that gold bar, silver coin, diamond, whatever current currency when the item you're buying is not worth one hundreth or even a tenth of whatever you have to pay with...got change for a diamond ring, gold bar ? Come on...!!


THIS is the thinking of someone who wasn't smart enough to jump on the band wagon LONG ago. :tongueout: Oh well. Someone ALWAYS has to be left behind.

SilverCity
11-06-2010, 16:52
When the SHTF, the people who own gold / silver / diamonds / Paste your Favorite here...will just have lumps of refined ore / shiny trickets.

Put your money into Water, Food, Guns and Ammo, and Shelter...you will be able to survive, protect what you have and or take what you need.

Just think, after the dust settles and you want to trade, barter, or even buy something you absolutely need, whadda ya gonna do with that gold bar, silver coin, diamond, whatever current currency when the item you're buying is not worth one hundreth or even a tenth of whatever you have to pay with...got change for a diamond ring, gold bar ? Come on...!!

What if you already have LOADS of that essential stuff and need someplace to put the rest of your wealth? What will you use once the SHTF has subsided and things return to relative calm, but all fiat currencies are wiped out? Ignore 5,000 years of history? Good luck.


SC

UneasyRider
11-06-2010, 17:48
What if you already have LOADS of that essential stuff already and need someplace to put the rest of your wealth. What will you use once the SHTF has subsided and things return relative calm, but all fiat currencies are wiped out? Ignore 5,000 years of history? Good luck.

I agree with you. Balance is always important. My wife and I were just talking about how lucky we are with a good pension for when we retire, a good savings in IRA's etc, and good jobs to provide for us.

At the same time we have prepared for the future with preps and PM's. We also have an exercise program, diet and have been seeing to our medical needs in advance. Balance.

We are not wealthy by anyones definition but we feel that we have hedged our bets in life by keeping a good balance. Some PM's make really good sense, especially lately, and I have food, water, shelter and defense covered so why not? It's just one more prep.

1 old 0311
11-06-2010, 17:58
What if you already have LOADS of that essential stuff already and need someplace to put the rest of your wealth. What will you use once the SHTF has subsided and things return relative calm, but all fiat currencies are wiped out? Ignore 5,000 years of history? Good luck.


E-X-A-C-T-L-Y There are also different degrees of SHTF. We won't go from the most powerful country with the strongest dollar to Mad Max overnight. With gold/silver you can opt out anytime and sell for a profit as needed.

BORNGEARHEAD
11-06-2010, 18:29
Let's say that the world goes to a "global currency". What will gold and silver be worth? Think that balloon will pop?

Warp
11-06-2010, 18:34
Let's say that the world goes to a "global currency". What will gold and silver be worth? Think that balloon will pop?

That's, uh, a pretty big "let's say". lol

And it will probably be worth what it is worth now, more or less, in terms of buying power.

1 old 0311
11-06-2010, 18:39
Let's say that the world goes to a "global currency". What will gold and silver be worth? Think that balloon will pop?

Well since gold is more popular in China, India, and most of the Third World than it is here it MAY rise further. The Euro was a testing ground for a Global Currency and more than a few Countries are having second thought about that decision.

Don H
11-08-2010, 10:54
Gold $1403.60


Silver $27.46


:dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

SilverCity
11-08-2010, 12:30
Freakin' runaway freight train...:shocked:

Silver will hit $30 by Friday at this rate :wow:

And how's that gold short working for ya? :whistling:

SC

1 old 0311
11-08-2010, 12:34
Hear that? I don't either. What happened to the 'experts' who said gold/silver was a FOOLISH investment? Pretty quiet lately ain't they?:whistling::whistling:

b18turboef
11-08-2010, 13:25
$27.68 as of now..

cowboy1964
11-08-2010, 13:38
While cleaning up the house last night I came across a receipt from Oct 2009 for 10 1964 Kennedy halves for $52. Those would go for about $100 today.

AT $27.64 one Kennedy half is worth exactly $10.

APD
11-08-2010, 13:47
I keep hearing the price of silver will fall.....as I watch it rise over the last 5 months.

I bought some at 15-16 bucks and thought THAT was pretty high. Guess I was wrong.

emt1581
11-08-2010, 15:32
Gold $1403.60


Silver $27.46


:dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

Don't make the mistake of being happy about this!! This is NOT a good thing!

It's an indication of the crisis which will be getting MUCH worse.

-Emt1581

Don H
11-08-2010, 15:59
Don't make the mistake of being happy about this!! This is NOT a good thing!

It's an indication of the crisis which will be getting MUCH worse.

-Emt1581


Do I want the economy to melt down, (no) of course I don't! I do however live on a little planet called reality, saw this coming years ago and I've been preparing for it. Those who have not prepared are going to get hosed in the end.

I purchased most of my silver when it was around $6 an ounce, and gold when it was around $400 and ounce. Am I happy where the prices currently are and where they'll be in the future? Damn right I am!!!!

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:08
Do I want the economy to melt down, (no) of course I don't! I do however live on a little planet called reality, saw this coming years ago and I've been preparing for it. Those who have not prepared are going to get hosed in the end.

I purchased most of my silver when it was around $6 an ounce, and gold when it was around $400 and ounce. Am I happy where the prices currently are and where they'll be in the future? Damn right I am!!!!

So you are 100% off the grid then?

-Emt1581

Don H
11-08-2010, 16:12
So you are 100% off the grid then?

-Emt1581

My cabin is, can get there in little over an hour if need be.

Warp
11-08-2010, 16:14
So you are 100% off the grid then?

-Emt1581

Wow Emt, are you calling for a major SHTF or are you actually predicting TEOTWAWKI?

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:27
My cabin is, can get there in little over an hour if need be.

So in terms of food, water, protection, meds, electricity and heat....you're good for a decade or so then?

-Emt1581

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:29
Wow Emt, are you calling for a major SHTF or are you actually predicting TEOTWAWKI?

Major SHTF. But in order for someone to do nothing but benefit from the price of PM's going through the roof, and our economy/currency collapsing...they have to be 100% self-sufficient. Otherwise they're just in denial of how they will be effected.

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 16:30
So in terms of food, water, protection, meds, electricity and heat....you're good for a decade or so then?

-Emt1581

Can you poinpoint the month you are calling for TEOTWAWKI?

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:31
Can you poinpoint the month you are calling for TEOTWAWKI?

I just said major SHTF. Why did you ask the same/similar questions twice?

-Emt1581

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:33
BTW Warp, Silver went up another point or so today. What leg are you standing on at this point that we're NOT heading for a SHTF...or are already there??

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 16:34
I just said major SHTF. Why did you ask the same/similar questions twice?

-Emt1581


Because you said this.

So in terms of food, water, protection, meds, electricity and heat....you're good for a decade or so then?

-Emt1581


This is beyond a SHTF. We are now talking TEOTWAWKI

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:35
Because you said this.




This is beyond a SHTF. We are now talking TEOTWAWKI

So you would call what's going on in Argentina a TEOTWAWKI situation?

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 16:47
So you would call what's going on in Argentina a TEOTWAWKI situation?

-Emt1581

What does argentina have to do with "So in terms of food, water, protection, meds, electricity and heat....you're good for a decade or so then?"

Do they need to have that in argentina?

emt1581
11-08-2010, 16:54
What does argentina have to do with "So in terms of food, water, protection, meds, electricity and heat....you're good for a decade or so then?"

Do they need to have that in argentina?

Sure, from everything I've read. Otherwise it's a hassle/dangerous to acquire such things.

Just like you did last time you went on this war path you seem to be questioning everything I say without contributing much and just so we don't waste a few pages and some bandwidth at least tell me if you understand my point (even though you might not agree with it). If so, what is my point in terms of what I was saying to blown?

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 17:01
Sure, from everything I've read.

I sure don't recall Ferfal supplying his own electricty, off grid, this entire time.

Am I missing something?

PBCounty
11-08-2010, 17:01
This is like the online version of the fight scene from "They Live."

http://www.thetrueinternet.com/TheyLiveFight.JPG

emt1581
11-08-2010, 17:02
I sure don't recall Ferfal supplying his own electricty, off grid, this entire time.

Am I missing something?

Yes but in order to answer yourself you need to answer my question...because it's the same answer.

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 17:06
I assume you are 100% off grid?

Well, since you are online I guess I assume you are ready to go 100% off grid for the next decade?

emt1581
11-08-2010, 17:14
I assume you are 100% off grid?

Well, since you are online I guess I assume you are ready to go 100% off grid for the next decade?

Ok, so you can't even acknowledge or state my point?

Again, all you're doing is throwing any question you can out there to poke a hole in my statements.

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 17:20
Ok, so you can't even acknowledge or state my point?


That to be prepared we need to be capable of living 100% off grid for about the next decade?

I'm pretty sure I aknowledged that.

emt1581
11-08-2010, 17:27
That to be prepared we need to be capable of living 100% off grid for about the next decade?

I'm pretty sure I aknowledged that.

Wrong. And this is why I had you clarify. I never said in order to survive/live.

I said in order to not be effected...big difference. And my point before that was that this silver spike is NOT a good thing.

Now considering all that, what was the justification for your goose chase?

-Emt1581

Warp
11-08-2010, 17:33
Wrong. And this is why I had you clarify. I never said in order to survive/live.

I said in order to not be effected...big difference. And my point before that was that this silver spike is NOT a good thing.

Now considering all that, what was the justification for your goose chase?

-Emt1581

How is living 100% off grid for a decade not being affected?

emt1581
11-08-2010, 17:38
How is living 100% off grid for a decade not being affected?

You're sort of fixating on your point and missing mine.

I said unless you were 100% off the grid you would be effected by this SHTF.

-Emt1581

VBG23
11-08-2010, 17:58
Ok, so you can't even acknowledge or state my point?

Again, all you're doing is throwing any question you can out there to poke a hole in my statements.

-Emt1581

Please don't humor him

b18turboef
11-08-2010, 19:17
creeping up on $28!!

PBCounty
11-08-2010, 19:20
creeping up on $28!!

I haven't been able to get anything for less than $32 (eagles) for a couple days now......was able to buy at $24 or so only days ago.

b18turboef
11-08-2010, 19:23
I haven't been able to get anything for less than $32 (eagles) for a couple days now......was able to buy at $24 or so only days ago.

I started late.... Got mine a week ago, total cost including wire transfer, and shipping, and paying the $3 premium per eagle I paid $27.42 delivered. I've already made back the $25 shipping, $25 bank wire, and $3 per coin premium, and made $.50 each lol...

emt1581
11-08-2010, 19:26
I started late.... Got mine a week ago, total cost including wire transfer, and shipping, and paying the $3 premium per eagle I paid $27.42 delivered. I've already made back the $25 shipping, $25 bank wire, and $3 per coin premium, and made $.50 each lol...

But from person to person (nucleo) I'm wondering how that would work. Ebay is known for having ridiculously inflated premiums. $5+ isn't uncommon.

Now going a step further, when it's time to use the silver to purchase goods/services, I'm wondering if silver will be silver or if people will fuss over the eagles??

-Emt1581

b18turboef
11-08-2010, 19:30
I chose eagles (and paid more vs regular rounds) for one reason.... Easy recognition, nobody is going to argue that they are real... Do they command a premium, yes, but thats not my intention.

PBCounty
11-08-2010, 19:31
Now going a step further, when it's time to use the silver to purchase goods/services, I'm wondering if silver will be silver or if people will fuss over the eagles??

-Emt1581

I'm paying a little more for the Eagles in assumption that they will be more trusted....too many "art bars" out there with nothing but a shiny coat of silver / gold. Hell, I wouldn't even know if I was buying the real thing initially.

b18turboef
11-08-2010, 19:32
I'm paying a little more for the Eagles in assumption that they will be more trusted....too many "art bars" out there with nothing but a shiny coat of silver / gold. Hell, I wouldn't even know if I was buying the real thing initially.

exactly

emt1581
11-08-2010, 19:35
I'm paying a little more for the Eagles in assumption that they will be more trusted....too many "art bars" out there with nothing but a shiny coat of silver / gold. Hell, I wouldn't even know if I was buying the real thing initially.

This is why I weigh EVERY round when buying from someone and I do all deals in person. That is, when I was buying that's what I did.

I have a feeling this is how it will be done in the future to avoid what you're talking about.

I'm also guessing one or both parties will be armed and God help someone trying to cheat on either side!

-Emt1581

b18turboef
11-08-2010, 19:40
just so i dont go accusing someone.... is there any way someone could cheat to make a round 1oz without being silver? i dont know if there are metals that could be inserted etc... and does a 1oz round really weigh exactly 1oz, or are we talking in 2x4 wood terms lol

emt1581
11-08-2010, 19:45
just so i dont go accusing someone.... is there any way someone could cheat to make a round 1oz without being silver? i dont know if there are metals that could be inserted etc... and does a 1oz round really weigh exactly 1oz, or are we talking in 2x4 wood terms lol

Nope impossible.

I mean you could manipulate the weight but then the size wouldn't match up. No other element would match silver in the mass/weight dept.

-Emt1581

racerford
11-08-2010, 21:18
Wow, we are almost to the 60% of the recent (last 50 years) historical high of silver un-adjusted for inflation. Can someone call the timing and value of the top of the market? What is the round trip transaction cost for say 30 physical Troy Oz of Silver so I can understand what it will take for me to recover my investment?

I also need someone who can call the next bottom for the market value and timing.

I will remind everyone until you have made the round trip on your investment, it is all paper gains, and you don't know how good you investment was, especially adjusted for inflation.

cowboy1964
11-08-2010, 22:29
Wow, we are almost to the 60% of the recent (last 50 years) historical high of silver un-adjusted for inflation. Can someone call the timing and value of the top of the market? What is the round trip transaction cost for say 30 physical Troy Oz of Silver so I can understand what it will take for me to recover my investment?

The problem with the $54 historical high for silver was it was a phony high, caused by the Hunt brothers trying to corner the market. At one point they had half the world's deliverable supply. Later the price crashed 50% in one day.

I don't view precious metals as an investment (though they are a good one right now). I view them as insurance. I buy/sell all mine through EBay. When buying you're not going to find a local dealer that will be cheaper. When selling you'll pay 9% commission to EBay. That's about the best you'll be able to do.

PBCounty
11-08-2010, 22:30
We just passed the $28 mark at $28.11 according to Kitco.

cowboy1964
11-08-2010, 22:35
I haven't been able to get anything for less than $32 (eagles) for a couple days now......was able to buy at $24 or so only days ago.

Yep it's unreal. I'm kicking myself for not buying more over the last year. I started buying a little over a year ago when silver was around $16. I got nervous when it starting getting up to $18, $19, etc. Now we're closing in on $30. Unreal.

racerford
11-09-2010, 01:09
The problem with the $54 historical high for silver was it was a phony high, caused by the Hunt brothers trying to corner the market. At one point they had half the world's deliverable supply. Later the price crashed 50% in one day.

I don't view precious metals as an investment (though they are a good one right now). I view them as insurance. I buy/sell all mine through EBay. When buying you're not going to find a local dealer that will be cheaper. When selling you'll pay 9% commission to EBay. That's about the best you'll be able to do.

The problem is, how do we know that the same situation is not in play today? There have been several reports recently of attempts or successes in manipulating PM prices in the market.

Back in the day, it was the Hunt Brothers that manipulated the market. Who is to say it is not Soros or some other wealthy person, family, or saavy investment firm jacking with the market. In some ways it is easier, and in some ways it could be harder. I know that where there is a will there is a way. These people do not care about the damage they do to others. They do not care if they damage the economies of whole countries or of the world, as long as their personal economy is better off. In some cases the damage they do is part of what they are trying to achieve, in addition to making themselves more money.

emt1581
11-09-2010, 05:14
The problem is, how do we know that the same situation is not in play today? There have been several reports recently of attempts or successes in manipulating PM prices in the market.

Back in the day, it was the Hunt Brothers that manipulated the market. Who is to say it is not Soros or some other wealthy person, family, or saavy investment firm jacking with the market. In some ways it is easier, and in some ways it could be harder. I know that where there is a will there is a way. These people do not care about the damage they do to others. They do not care if they damage the economies of whole countries or of the world, as long as their personal economy is better off. In some cases the damage they do is part of what they are trying to achieve, in addition to making themselves more money.

But those manipulations were false ownerships AFAIK. In other words, they said they had a ton of PM's and really had nowhere close to those figures. Much different than some entity actually buying up all of the PM's (Silver) as the Hunt brothers did.

They started printing a massive amount of bills last week AFAIK and what we're seeing seems to be the devaluing of our currency because of it. Remember, PM's stay at a constant. They will always buy the same amount of goods. It's the world's currencies that move up or down around the PM's.

-Emt1581

emt1581
11-09-2010, 05:19
Do I want the economy to melt down, (no) of course I don't! I do however live on a little planet called reality, saw this coming years ago and I've been preparing for it. Those who have not prepared are going to get hosed in the end.

I purchased most of my silver when it was around $6 an ounce, and gold when it was around $400 and ounce. Am I happy where the prices currently are and where they'll be in the future? Damn right I am!!!!

I haven't seen a reply from you so I'll assume you either admit you either missed it.

But at this point, do you STILL think the price of silver going through the roof is a good thing?

-Emt1581

VBG23
11-09-2010, 05:43
As of 0742 silver is at $28.42

It rose over $1 yesterday and $.50 over night. Parabolic yet?

Are YOU prepared?

emt1581
11-09-2010, 05:47
As of 0742 silver is at $28.42

It rose over $1 yesterday and $.50 over night. Parabolic yet?

Are YOU prepared?

I wonder how long it'll be before it hit's store shelves. How long until a candy bar is $4-$5?

-Emt1581

doneroman
11-09-2010, 06:34
It won't be long. Anyone remember the roller coaster nightmares of '80-'82? Silver and gold are kings, and any other commodities needed to survive.

$5 a gallon fuel by March? Food prices will sky rocket and suddenly the masses will be interested in gardening again. Hunting. Fishing. Leather work.

Great thread and interesting points all around.

Grayson
11-09-2010, 07:02
What are your thoughts on numismatic coins at the moment? Know some people pushing those, but I was thinking just "regular" Eagles would be the way to go right now...:dunno:

SilverCity
11-09-2010, 07:40
What are your thoughts on numismatic coins at the moment? Know some people pushing those, but I was thinking just "regular" Eagles would be the way to go right now...:dunno:

No guarantee you will get those high premiums you paid when/if you sell. Stick to bullion.

cowboy1964
11-09-2010, 08:20
Eagles are the way to go, IMO.

cowboy1964
11-09-2010, 08:23
Silver is far outpacing gold at this point. Which is to be expected as the gold/silver ratio has been skewed toward gold for a long time.

At this point silver at $35 is likely within a year, easily. $40 isn't that crazy. OTOH, it seems to be wildly overbought right now. If it goes much higher I am going to sell some off.

kirgi08
11-09-2010, 08:24
Eagles,in a barter economy they'll be more readily accepted.'08.

SilverCity
11-09-2010, 09:47
Silver is far outpacing gold at this point. Which is to be expected as the gold/silver ratio has been skewed toward gold for a long time.

At this point silver at $35 is likely within a year, easily. $40 isn't that crazy. OTOH, it seems to be wildly overbought right now. If it goes much higher I am going to sell some off.

$30 by Friday. $40-$50 by January 1st.

Silver overbought? You are talking in terms of "normal" fundamental market analysis. Silver price has been suppressed for so long, it is only now starting to return to it's historic value against gold (15:1)...$90-$100 or so at today's gold price. Silver could well "overshoot" to double that.

These markets (stock, bond, currency, commodity) have been manipulated for years by the Wall Street criminals (JPM, HSBC, CITI group, GS, and our own government). Their crooked entreprise is beginning to collapse. They are running scared and will ultimately lose.


EDIT: Did I say Friday? :upeyes:

SC

UneasyRider
11-09-2010, 11:12
I like current issue coins and I am pro silver too.

VBG23
11-09-2010, 11:16
As of 1314 the price of silver is $29.23

In a little over 5 hours since my last post it has gone up almost a dollar..... in 5 hours....

:whistling:

1 old 0311
11-09-2010, 13:31
As of 1314 the price of silver is $29.23

In a little over 5 hours since my last post it has gone up almost a dollar..... in 5 hours....

:whistling:



6 months ago I said IF silver hit $23.00 I was going to dump it all. Well then my goal was $25, now $30. At this point I think I will sit on it till it slides BACK to $23.00.:whistling:

SHOOTR13
11-09-2010, 13:42
THIS is the thinking of someone who wasn't smart enough to jump on the band wagon LONG ago. :tongueout: Oh well. Someone ALWAYS has to be left behind.

What if you already have LOADS of that essential stuff and need someplace to put the rest of your wealth? What will you use once the SHTF has subsided and things return to relative calm, but all fiat currencies are wiped out? Ignore 5,000 years of history? Good luck.
SC

I was already in the market and made my money...then got out while the getting was good...and it was good luck, thanks. Now retired and living the dream...and ready for whatever comes...:tongueout:

SilverCity
11-09-2010, 14:02
The smackdown cometh...your tax dollars at work. :faint:

cowboy1964
11-09-2010, 15:26
The last two days smack of market manipulation somewhere. But what do I know.

Warp
11-09-2010, 16:58
$5 a gallon fuel by March?

sounds like a bet

Warp
11-09-2010, 17:23
What are your thoughts on numismatic coins at the moment? Know some people pushing those, but I was thinking just "regular" Eagles would be the way to go right now...:dunno:


I have always figured dimes and eagles were best.

For our purposes the point is to get the metal in a form that is easily recognized and at a (relatively) small value per each for small purchases, lack of change being returned, etc.

1 old 0311
11-09-2010, 17:52
I was already in the market and made my money...then got out while the getting was good...and it was good luck, thanks. Now retired and living the dream...and ready for whatever comes...:tongueout:


That's why I LOVE this site. EVERYONE is a retired at 30, multi millionaire/former S.E.A.L./Medal Of Honor winner/Olympic Gold Medalist/rock star.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

wildcat455
11-09-2010, 19:09
LOL! Hope inflation doesn't eat him up on his fixed retirement income!

UneasyRider
11-09-2010, 20:59
That's why I LOVE this site. EVERYONE is a retired at 30, multi millionaire/former S.E.A.L./Medal Of Honor winner/Olympic Gold Medalist/rock star.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That sums it up nicely!

kirgi08
11-09-2010, 21:12
Ya mean I'm not.'08. :faint:

b18turboef
11-12-2010, 09:44
Anyone interested in some brand new 2010 Eagles? I've got 80 I may be willing to part with for a fair price :)

Wester25
11-12-2010, 15:00
Anyone interested in some brand new 2010 Eagles? I've got 80 I may be willing to part with for a fair price :)


I'll give ya face value.:tongueout:

Warp
11-14-2010, 11:21
Down about $3 from the high water mark....

Still fairly high though, considering where it came from.

1 old 0311
11-14-2010, 13:04
Down about $3 from the high water mark....

Still fairly high though, considering where it came from.


Like any asset they go up, and down daily, but the trend is still higher.

Warp
11-14-2010, 13:17
Like any asset they go up, and down daily, but the trend is still higher.

I'll be looking to see if it gets to $40-$50 by New Years as predicted.

Or even $30.

1 old 0311
11-15-2010, 13:43
I'll be looking to see if it gets to $40-$50 by New Years as predicted.

Or even $30.


Well the rest of the World doesn't seem real happy that Obama is trying to save his Presidency by printing more money. It will go up.

Don H
11-15-2010, 14:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGpi1gxtAOY

wjv
11-15-2010, 14:32
That's why I LOVE this site. EVERYONE is a retired at 30, multi millionaire/former S.E.A.L./Medal Of Honor winner/Olympic Gold Medalist/rock star.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I know that guy!

Screen name: Buckaroo Banzai

wildcat455
11-15-2010, 21:13
Well the rest of the World doesn't seem real happy that Obama is trying to save his Presidency by printing more money. It will go up.

Didn't he get turned down by the rest of the world to buy the debt, and that is why the fed is monetizing it? Because no one would buy it? Not sure it has anything to do with "Saving his Presidency"...

If the rest of the world turned us down then my take is the rest of the world can eat it.

BTW, I am NO fan of Obama, but this leans into patriotism in my book.

wonderwolf
11-16-2010, 11:06
Dang how much are they going to be printing? Last dozen times I've gone to the bank for cash my 20's have all bee sequentially numbered and all my 1's as well. Bank teller complained to me the damn things stick together too easily.

wjv
11-16-2010, 11:21
I was reading an article that said that the banks are finally starting to release some of the trillions of funny money into the M1 supply. The article stated that the m1 supply is up by 7% after being flat/down for a LONG time, and the velocity of money is starting to kick up. (no I didn't actually independently confirm the numbers in the article)

We haven't seen much consumer inflation yet because:

1) The banks were holding the money
2) The manufacturers and retailers were "eating" some of the increases

But now, if it is true the money is being injected into the m1 supply, added to the recent announcements by manufacturers and retailers that they can no longer absorb the cost increases, and will be passing them along, expect to see inflation start heating up.

1 old 0311
11-16-2010, 11:52
Dang how much are they going to be printing? Last dozen times I've gone to the bank for cash my 20's have all bee sequentially numbered and all my 1's as well. Bank teller complained to me the damn things stick together too easily.


Never thought about it but you are right. Most of the money going around seems to be the new 'Obama bucks.'

emt1581
11-17-2010, 20:40
Either last year or the year before...around this time...wasn't Silver around 1/3 of what it is today in relation to the USD? Just something I was thinking about. I remember that I thought about buying it, out of the blue one day, and it turned out I missed the lowest price in a long time by about two weeks. At that time I figured I would just wait until it came back down a point or two to jump in. Well that never happened. So I lost interest and just kept buying guns/ammo. Then by the time I got back in the game it had risen to around 16-18. So I bought some. It was bought with disposable income and it wasn't much, but today I'm glad I did it. I just wish I would have bought when it was 11 instead of 17-ish.

-Emt1581

Warp
11-17-2010, 22:41
Either last year or the year before...around this time...wasn't Silver around 1/3 of what it is today in relation to the USD? Just something I was thinking about. I remember that I thought about buying it, out of the blue one day, and it turned out I missed the lowest price in a long time by about two weeks. At that time I figured I would just wait until it came back down a point or two to jump in. Well that never happened. So I lost interest and just kept buying guns/ammo. Then by the time I got back in the game it had risen to around 16-18. So I bought some. It was bought with disposable income and it wasn't much, but today I'm glad I did it. I just wish I would have bought when it was 11 instead of 17-ish.

-Emt1581

It did dip massively for a little bit. In mid-late 2008 it dove from 18 down to about 10.

certifiedfunds
11-18-2010, 03:57
I mean seriously? If they can do it...why not do it all the time? Why not create perpetual prosperity?

Was this not the promise of the Fed, BB?

PBCounty
11-18-2010, 12:47
Found me a 1964 dime in my change from lunch today......I didn't think that would ever happen again.

Just wanted to share....

certifiedfunds
11-18-2010, 12:48
Found me a 1964 dime in my change from lunch today......I didn't think that would ever happen again.

Just wanted to share....

Worthless. Expired. Put it in a vending machine somewhere.

Careby
11-18-2010, 13:34
I just looked at a quote. Up $1.32 (over 5%) so far today at $26.99.

Anybody near me want to buy a green box (500 silver eagles) at spot price? Or trade me 10 oz. of gold for it?

jeager
11-18-2010, 14:41
Found me a 1964 dime in my change from lunch today......I didn't think that would ever happen again.

Just wanted to share....

Someones coin collection got riped-off
and the Bastauge just spent it for face value.

You're most likely to find such things in vending and automatic change dispensing machines, though.

PBCounty
11-18-2010, 16:13
Worthless. Expired. Put it in a vending machine somewhere.

Seeing what the "junk bags" go for today, I could kick myself for not saving all the ones I would find from when I was a kid.....there were a lot more floating around back then. Too bad I would only look for them as a novelty and then spend them again anyway.

PBCounty
11-19-2010, 12:36
Found two more today from the same Subway....a 1951 and 1957. On a roll baby. :dancing:

223242
11-29-2010, 12:59


Kadetklapp
11-30-2010, 13:06


Ok, I give. WTF is this all about?

Warp
11-30-2010, 15:27
Currently at $28.07

certifiedfunds
11-30-2010, 20:07
Currently at $28.07

Beautiful, eh?

Wait till it crosses $100!

emt1581
11-30-2010, 20:22
Beautiful, eh?

Wait till it crosses $100!

I still say that is not a good thing.

-Emt1581

UneasyRider
11-30-2010, 20:42
I still say that is not a good thing.

-Emt1581

I am sure you are right, especially if you are not holding a lot of of silver.

emt1581
11-30-2010, 20:44
I am sure you are right, especially if you are not holding a lot of of silver.

Even if you are...it's a sign that things are changing on many levels.

-Emt1581

certifiedfunds
11-30-2010, 20:54
I still say that is not a good thing.

-Emt1581

Oh, no. Agreed. But there is a saying:

"What is going to happen is going to happen. Just make sure it doesn't happen to you."

And another:

"People will get what they have coming."

certifiedfunds
11-30-2010, 20:54
I am sure you are right, especially if you are not holding a lot of of silver.

Well, yeah, that too.

G29Reload
11-30-2010, 21:09
Worthless. Expired. Put it in a vending machine somewhere.

Huh? not at all. He wont retire on it, but its worth about $2

64 dimes are 90%.

certifiedfunds
11-30-2010, 21:24
Huh? not at all. He wont retire on it, but its worth about $2

64 dimes are 90%.

It was sarcasm