Is this a good starter kit? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dan
10-14-2010, 08:29
Got my monthly catalog from Midway and is this Lee Challenger set good for the beginner that going to do light reloading for now?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=423081

Or spend the money for a RCBS?

Thanks, Dan

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 08:41
What calibers, amount of rounds do you shoot? Have you read the stickies? If for pistol the concencus will be to start with a turret if on a budget 100-150 rounds an hour and you can still use it as a single stage with the index disabled.

This is the best deal around complete with Lee dies for one caliber.
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
About $225 delivered to your door with both upgrades, add a good beam scale to check charges and calipers for OAL your good to go.

Dan
10-14-2010, 08:46
100 to 150 rounds an hour is plenty. Primary 223, 243, 30/30, & 308 are the calibers that I want to reload.

Not interested reloading pistol right now.

Baldbomber
10-14-2010, 08:50
Personally, if i was gonna reload rifle calibers i would go with the rcbs.. Just a solid press, not saying that the Lee wouldnt work

XDRoX
10-14-2010, 08:53
Got my monthly catalog from Midway and is this Lee Challenger set good for the beginner that going to do light reloading for now?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=423081

Or spend the money for a RCBS?

Thanks, Dan

With single stage presses it really doesn't matter a whole lot what you get. They are work about the same.

I have read countless threads on the Lee accessories being sub-par (scale and powder measure). I have read so many bad things that I would never buy them. Until I actually used them. My buddy has that same ann. kit and likes it a lot. I have used it and my opinion has changed.

The stuff does feel cheaper (more plastic) than the RCBS stuff, but it all works. And works well. I don't know if he just got lucky, but his kit works great and cost very little. He'll chime in when he sees this thread.

My new opinion of the Lee Ann. Kit. is how can you go wrong with a complete set-up for $82:dunno:

For me it would be worth $82 to just see how much I like reloading.
I spend more than that on beer some weekends.

The RCBS kit is better, but you pay more for it.

If you compare cost to quality I think both kits are equal. There will be many that disagree though, and say go for the RCBS.

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 09:10
100 to 150 rounds an hour is plenty. Primary 223, 243, 30/30, & 308 are the calibers that I want to reload.

Not interested reloading pistol right now.

For rifle at that count, I still stay LCT. Unless budget is a defiante consideration and you see yourself doing some serious loading for accuracy, then go with the RCBS. Either way you have to start with one, learn the ropes then move onto the others.

EL_NinO619
10-14-2010, 09:21
Let not your heart desire..BUY IT.. Starter kit, that is the best value you will ever find. Even though you will upgrade most of the extras down the road. The press will still be hanging out on your bench guaranteed. I load everything you want to load and the L 50 handles it. For under a 100 with shipping to find out if you like reloading, and i know it will last you awhile because you do not need a 1000 rounds a hour from what you say. Buy the shell plate, die, case length gauge, and cutter and load away. PM me if you have any ? about the press or gear.

P.S. That's a little face lift i did with vinyl tiling.. $24 bucks at home depot. Sweethttp://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac135/Justin_Moreau/kdk_1353.jpg?t=1287069586

rhino673
10-14-2010, 09:22
Just for rifles go with the RCBS rock chucker. ( Or any quality single stage) I've got a RCBS and a Lyman and I'm very happy with both.

MrOldLude
10-14-2010, 12:55
Go with the anniv kit. It'll get you started right. If/when you're ready to upgrade, you'll be able to sell it. Lee's simpler gear (single-stage anniversary or classic-cast) are great. The turret is pretty good too. Their dies are the best.

The only piece I'd hesitate on is their Pro 1000, progressive. It works, but not always 100% out of the box. The design just isn't totally foolproof. It's affordable, but don't be surprised if it takes some fiddling and adjustments to get it dead on.

The long and short is, yes, the single-stage that you're looking at is just fine, and will make accurate ammo. (some may recommend upgrading the powder scale eventually)

WiskyT
10-14-2010, 13:22
Get it. RCBS is quality stuff, but in the end a Rock Chucker does nothing for you that the Lee won't do and for three times the price. I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds on my Lee press since 1985.

KILLERtj
10-14-2010, 13:56
Heck yea, get the Lee!

I don't have a whole lot of money in my reloading equipment (I can't afford it) and most of my toys are Lee. I have 3 single stage Lee's (poor mans progressive) and the work great for me. I reload calibers from .380 all the way up to .458Lott with Lee products.

I would look into an electronic scale for precision high power loads and even for checking your powder measure.

KILLERtj

Bello
10-14-2010, 14:24
i agree its a good starter kit and it will let you know/see if you like to reload

GioaJack
10-14-2010, 14:37
Just watch your butler load for a few hours to get an idea if you're going to enjoy loading.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
10-14-2010, 16:28
I am going to disagree (kinda). Not that I don't like the kit in some ways but I would still suggest a different path. I say get at least slightly better gear in some areas.

I really don't like the scale in the kit. I have used it a lot, I don't see spending even $20 to get that scale. Your going to want better so why buy something that is used so often and is so important so you can't afford to get sloppy when you use it. I would get the Dillon Scale for $55. You could piece together a kit using Lee and other parts around that scale. Or just get the Lee kit and the better scale.

In the end I honestly think you will be happier if you just bite the bullet and get the better kits listed below. Or a LCT kit. LCT is probably good enough but for rifle you might consider the single stage kits especially if you are a low volume shooter.

I got a Lee kit once and I no longer use any of the items that came in the kit. Scale is under the bench, primer pocket cleaners are not very good. It seems to be a good value but in the end if you are going to end up replacing all the parts with other items just get the better items now.

BUT, if you really just want to spend $90 and try it then you surely can reload fine ammo with that kit.

Other options

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=646599http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=749997

dudel
10-14-2010, 16:37
The "kit" includes stuff you don't need (or will soon replace). If you're going to go Lee, get one of the "Classic" cast iron presses.

I had a Lee Challenger as a second press for a while. It was next to the RockChucker. When they are side by side, you can see the difference in build quality. My RC is 20+ years old and is still tight and smooth. The challenger was not. It's gone. Buy once, cry once. The RC will last your lifetime, and then the kid you pass it on to. On eBay, you see plenty of old RCs (30-40 yr old) still being sold. You don't see many old Lees of that age being sold. Wonder why.

Yes, the RC will cost more; but over a lifetime of loading it's going to be penny more than the Lee. The RC also seems to hold resale value better than the Challenger. There are old RCs being sold for more than the purchase price; can't say that about Challengers. RC's have a well deserved reputation over many, many years. They are solid presses (heck, they were designed to be used for swaging).

Since you're looking to do rifle rounds, by all means, remove small "C" presses from consideration (same with the thighmasters).

In the end, a good single stage will continue to be of use even if you later move to a progressive. Think of it a a long term investment, rather than a quick cheap buy.

Colorado4Wheel
10-14-2010, 16:40
My links dont work. HORNADY and RCBS sell a nice kit with a powder measure that cost in the low $300 range. I perfer the RCBS because it has a better scale IMHO.

buyobuyo
10-14-2010, 17:39
The kit will get you going. It's what I started with. As mentioned, the scale is a major weak point, and you'll probably end up buying a nicer one eventually.

If you plan on loading with ball powders, the powder is hit or miss. Mine like many others leaks horribly with ball powders. I still use the measure though for extruded powders. I find that it works best with those kinds of powder of the other measures that I've tried (Lyman 55 and RCBS Uniflow). I haven't tried extruded powders in the measure on my LNL, but it seems to meter Unique and RedDot without issue.

Another weak point is the toggle linkage that connects the handle to the ram. It's cast and not all that strong. I found that I mine was broke when I sent my press in for service after crushing the shell holder opening in the ram while resizing 1000+ military .308 cases. Then the new linkage broke within a couple days while swaging the crimp out of the primer pockets.

For me the deciding factors on buying it originally were the price and interchangeable bushings. Now that I've going through it, I think I would have been better off waiting/saving up and starting out with the Hornady LNL Classic kit.

Colorado4Wheel
10-14-2010, 17:44
You can but the LnL bushing on the RC as well.

trlcavscout
10-14-2010, 22:21
I had the LEE anniversary and RCBS rock crusher when I used to reload 308, when I got back into it I bought the LEE challenger press kit for like $100. I am very happy with it, I like the quick change bushings for changing out dies, I even bought extra bushings for changing calibers. I havent seen any difference in the LEE's and RCBS single stage press's as far as use. Any will work. I have only done about 2k total so far on the lee challenger from 9mm/223/40/357 sig, but it will see alot more.

robin303
10-15-2010, 22:57
Thats the one I got and I'm happy with it. All you need is another beam scale.

WiskyT
10-15-2010, 23:05
The Lee scale is fine. And it is already paid for if you buy the kit. The Lee scale is a bit slow to use, but you can fix that problem by not weighing every thing. Weigh a lot when you start out to gain confidence in your measure and your abilities and then just weigh occasionally to make sure everything is working right. I go months without weighing anything. The Lee scale is as accurate as any other scale out there for our purposes and it is designed to remove human error as much as possible.

M1A Shooter
10-15-2010, 23:11
i started with this kit a couple years ago. its fine as far as the press. the powder measure takes some break in time to run reliably accurate. the beam scale included is complete garbage. i very quickly bought a rcbs rangemaster 750 digital scale. its great.

i reload 9mm, 45acp, .223 and .308. i use lee dies as well. they come with the shell holder.

for my 308 loads, i measure each charge on the digital scale by hand. the lee perfect powder measure works well enough for pistol loads. think im going to get another measure of some sort for my .223 plinking loads but havent tried rifle powders in my lppm yet. just using it as an excuse to upgrade.

WiskyT
10-16-2010, 21:31
the beam scale included is complete garbage. i very quickly bought a rcbs rangemaster 750 digital scale. its great.


http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1275336

M1A Shooter
10-16-2010, 22:43
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1275336

never heard of that before but mines been great for 2 years in the heat and cold of my garage. now its in the house though.

Zombie Steve
10-16-2010, 22:45
The bitterness of lower quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten. Get the Rockchucker kit.

:thumbsup:

dudel
10-17-2010, 05:22
The bitterness of lower quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten. Get the Rockchucker kit.

:thumbsup:

Bravo! +1 I don't think I've ever seen it put so well.

WiskyT
10-17-2010, 06:35
Bravo! +1 I don't think I've ever seen it put so well.

A penny saved is a penny earned-Benjamin Franklin

dudel
10-17-2010, 06:48
A penny saved is a penny earned-Benjamin Franklin

A penny saved can also be a dollar spent - school of life

How about: Buy the best you can afford?

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 07:30
Buy once, cry once.

Never mind you don't have to overspend to buy something thats better then that kit. Siht, most the stuff in that kit will never be used. Just buy a good press, the Lee trim kit, a good scale and a trickler. Some Lee Dies (they come with a shellholder) and your done.

WiskyT
10-17-2010, 07:53
A penny saved can also be a dollar spent - school of life

How about: Buy the best you can afford?

How about buy what you need to get the job done and then you can spend less time working and more time with your family? I make my kids breakfast and beat them home from school half the time. BTW, I can actually afford better than my Lee tools, and I still buy Lee tools. I actually like them and like the fact that they are half the price of other brands.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 08:14
How about buy what you need to get the job done and then you can spend less time working and more time with your family? I make my kids breakfast and beat them home from school half the time. BTW, I can actually afford better than my Lee tools, and I still buy Lee tools. I actually like them and like the fact that they are half the price of other brands.

Alright seriously then this is what comes in the kit.

Challenger Breech Lock single stage press, 3 Breech Lock die bushings, a Lee Safety Scale, Perfect Powder Measure, powder funnel, lock stud and cutter, a Lee chamfer tool, primer pocket cleaner, a large and small Safety Prime and a tube of sizing lube. A Lee Case Length Gage (sold separately) will need to be purchased for each caliber being reloade.

The stuff in bold is stuff you either won't use or will want to replace pretty quick. I have the scale. Yes it will weight a charge, but is a hassel. The primer pocket cleaner is useless. The camfer tool is nearly useless as well. It will remove a burr but so will that old worn out flat head screwdriver you in your junk drawer. The rest of the stuff would be OK. But it bugs me to pay for stuff that I know is not something I will want in the long term. I would buy the press and piece a kit together.

Dan
10-17-2010, 09:15
I would buy the press and piece a kit together.
I think thats what Im going to do.

dudel
10-17-2010, 10:16
Alright seriously then this is what comes in the kit.

Challenger Breech Lock single stage press, 3 Breech Lock die bushings, a Lee Safety Scale, Perfect Powder Measure, powder funnel, lock stud and cutter, a Lee chamfer tool, primer pocket cleaner, a large and small Safety Prime and a tube of sizing lube. A Lee Case Length Gage (sold separately) will need to be purchased for each caliber being reloade.

The stuff in bold is stuff you either won't use or will want to replace pretty quick. I have the scale. Yes it will weight a charge, but is a hassel. The primer pocket cleaner is useless. The camfer tool is nearly useless as well. It will remove a burr but so will that old worn out flat head screwdriver you in your junk drawer. The rest of the stuff would be OK. But it bugs me to pay for stuff that I know is not something I will want in the long term. I would buy the press and piece a kit together.

To that list, I would add as short term keepers, Perfect Powder measure (no real good way of automated powder dumping), lock stud and cutter (you'll have to buy the special shell holder seperatly, and there are better faster ways to trim cases).

So basically you have a press, funnel and case lube that are worth anything.

The problem I had with the Challenger press, is that it did a terrible job of catching spent primers and dust. The Classics to a much better job.

WiskyT
10-17-2010, 10:33
Alright seriously then this is what comes in the kit.

Challenger Breech Lock single stage press, 3 Breech Lock die bushings, a Lee Safety Scale, Perfect Powder Measure, powder funnel, lock stud and cutter, a Lee chamfer tool, primer pocket cleaner, a large and small Safety Prime and a tube of sizing lube. A Lee Case Length Gage (sold separately) will need to be purchased for each caliber being reloade.

The stuff in bold is stuff you either won't use or will want to replace pretty quick. I have the scale. Yes it will weight a charge, but is a hassel. The primer pocket cleaner is useless. The camfer tool is nearly useless as well. It will remove a burr but so will that old worn out flat head screwdriver you in your junk drawer. The rest of the stuff would be OK. But it bugs me to pay for stuff that I know is not something I will want in the long term. I would buy the press and piece a kit together.

Right, so you get a press, powder measure, funnel, scale, priming system that are very useful and arguably better than some of the more expensive products out there. I wouldn't care if it came with a free subscription to Better Homes and Gardens, what do I care if it comes with a primer pocket cleaner that you say doesn't work, WTF cleans primer pockets and calls that basic reloading.

I could hire Jack's butler out from under him for what I would save on this kit and have him chamfer my brass with the "useless" tool. BTW, I don't chamfer brass except for very rare occasions when I run my 30-06 brass through my Lee trimmer. 100 pieces of brass once every 5 years or so.

The OP is a a guy on a budget, probably young and watching his money so he doesn't have to be 50 with 28 years left on a 30year mortgage like most people I know, and wanting a basic startup kit to learn how to reload and save money on ammo. By the end of this thread you guys will have him thinking he needs a Harrel powder measure, arbor press, and custom made dies from some machine shop just to have a steady supply of the equivalant of WinUSA ball ammo at half the walmart price.

Heck, with the dipper that comes with the Lee dies, he won't even need a scale, but with this kit he actually will get a reliable, safe scale that is more accurate than powder measures.

M1A Shooter
10-17-2010, 13:01
i bought a possum hollow case trimmer from midwayusa. to make it a power trimmer, i put the case into a cheap cordless drill, tighten the chuck enough to hold it without damaging the rim. hold the trimmer in your hand, insert it in the trimmer and start the drill until its smooth. then i hold the "useless" lee chamfer tool in my hand and use the inside and outside to chamfer inside and outside the case neck. very easy and very cheap. have done close to 1K of both .308 and .223 this way.

the Possum Hollow trimmers are about 20 bucks per caliber. they trim to the minimum length so if you are doing match loads you may want an adjustable to trim to your chamber but for auto plinking loads or hunting ammo, this is fine.

in my 308 bolt guns, i would only trim every other loading. 3 loads and it would be difficult to chamber due to case length.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 13:21
Right, so you get a press, powder measure, funnel, scale, priming system that are very useful and arguably better than some of the more expensive products out there. I wouldn't care if it came with a free subscription to Better Homes and Gardens, what do I care if it comes with a primer pocket cleaner that you say doesn't work, WTF cleans primer pockets and calls that basic reloading.

I could hire Jack's butler out from under him for what I would save on this kit and have him chamfer my brass with the "useless" tool. BTW, I don't chamfer brass except for very rare occasions when I run my 30-06 brass through my Lee trimmer. 100 pieces of brass once every 5 years or so.

The OP is a a guy on a budget, probably young and watching his money so he doesn't have to be 50 with 28 years left on a 30year mortgage like most people I know, and wanting a basic startup kit to learn how to reload and save money on ammo. By the end of this thread you guys will have him thinking he needs a Harrel powder measure, arbor press, and custom made dies from some machine shop just to have a steady supply of the equivalant of WinUSA ball ammo at half the walmart price.

Heck, with the dipper that comes with the Lee dies, he won't even need a scale, but with this kit he actually will get a reliable, safe scale that is more accurate than powder measures.

Way to exagerate.

I said the scale works, it's just a PITA to adjust to get it balanced. If you are going to use a scale often, get a better scale for $55.

You can get a good camfer/debur tool for $13 Seriously. Thats not much.

Primer Pocket cleaner doesn't clean anything. Q-Tip would be a better tool.

THe press and other stuff is fine. Even the trimer works fine.

He never said he couldn't afford better. He simply asked for the opinions on that kit vs the RCBS kit. IF you can afford better and ENJOY using better tools then by all means get the better tools if you want to. Some tools simply "work" but they are nothing I enjoy owning or using. I have both in my house/garage. They both have a place in my house.

RustyFN
10-17-2010, 13:23
Dan,
Here is a vidoe that will show you the process of loading rifle ammo on the Lee classic turret. It's a great little press.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOpN9iYOyE8

RustyFN
10-17-2010, 13:34
and there are better faster ways to trim cases).

I would like to know what those are besides the Giraud for $450. I use the Lee trimmer and can trim pretty fast.

(you'll have to buy the special shell holder seperatly,

So even with the extra shell holder the complete trimmer can be had for around $15. Other trimmers are three times the price and still not as fast.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 13:38
Only issue with the Lee Trimmer is you can't adjust length on it. Besides that it works fine.

RustyFN
10-17-2010, 13:51
Only issue with the Lee Trimmer is you can't adjust length on it. Besides that it works fine.

True but how many different lengths do you trim 223 to? I trim only to the minimum which is what the Lee is designed to do. With the adjustable trimmer you have to re-adjust it every time you change calibers. I just put the correct length gage in the drill and go. I also chamfer and debur with the drill and can trim a lot of cases pretty fast.

EL_NinO619
10-17-2010, 14:06
You guys are jokes..The Lee stuff works great. Don't be mad you spent all that money on stuff that cant load any better ammo than mine. Seriously i would put my ammo against yours all day long. To just bash on LEE products is a waste of time, yes they are not the best, either is any other press. They all will have minor flaws. But to pay Extra money for a RCBS that is not even worth it for a SS, is a joke. Buy the Kit for $90 bucks and save your money. The kit will get you started and for 90 bucks i don't even see where it is possible to have any regrets. The press is worth way more than that, the primer system is money, the scale i have tested to a 505, it was on (not as fast). The breech lock system is a lot better then RCBS, Faster change overs. The powder thrower in my opinion works great especially for stick powder (better than the RCBS) as for the PP and chamfer tool yes not very usable but, with the money you save you can buy fancy tools with it. The trimmer and CLG are fast with a cordless drill. So buy it use it and see what YOU want to upgrade and use the money you saved to get it. There is a lot of "mine is better then yours on here." And i have used a LEE, Dillon, Lyman, Rcbs and redding and have no regrets on my LEE purchase. Good luck

gjk5
10-17-2010, 14:21
True but how many different lengths do you trim 223 to? I trim only to the minimum which is what the Lee is designed to do. With the adjustable trimmer you have to re-adjust it every time you change calibers. I just put the correct length gage in the drill and go. I also chamfer and debur with the drill and can trim a lot of cases pretty fast.

all true Rusty. I use the Lee trimmers in 5 calibers.

Bren
10-17-2010, 14:36
Got my monthly catalog from Midway and is this Lee Challenger set good for the beginner that going to do light reloading for now?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=423081

Or spend the money for a RCBS?

Thanks, Dan

I started with that kit and it works and I still use a lot of the stuff.

BAD:
Single stage presses are a really slow way to make ammo if, like me, you might make up 3K-5K 9mm rounds for a 3-5 day class and perfect rounds are not as important as quantity and price.
The lee scale sucks


GOOD:
A single stage is a GREAT way for a new reloader to learn
Most everything in it, except the scale, will be useful even if you get a progressive later. For rifle ammo, I only use my Lee single stage, since I am hand weighing the powder charges for each round.
The Lee scoops are good for scooping charges you are going to hand weigh and trickle up to standard for match/hunting ammo
The lee powder measure is surprisingly accurate
The breech lock bushing (I don't have one) looks like it eliminates a lot of the drawback to a single stage press, since you can adjust your dies and keep them that way through die changes.

Zombie Steve
10-17-2010, 15:02
You guys are jokes..The Lee stuff works great. Don't be mad you spent all that money on stuff that cant load any better ammo than mine. Seriously i would put my ammo against yours all day long. To just bash on LEE products is a waste of time, yes they are not the best, either is any other press. They all will have minor flaws. But to pay Extra money for a RCBS that is not even worth it for a SS, is a joke. Buy the Kit for $90 bucks and save your money. The kit will get you started and for 90 bucks i don't even see where it is possible to have any regrets. The press is worth way more than that, the primer system is money, the scale i have tested to a 505, it was on (not as fast). The breech lock system is a lot better then RCBS, Faster change overs. The powder thrower in my opinion works great especially for stick powder (better than the RCBS) as for the PP and chamfer tool yes not very usable but, with the money you save you can buy fancy tools with it. The trimmer and CLG are fast with a cordless drill. So buy it use it and see what YOU want to upgrade and use the money you saved to get it. There is a lot of "mine is better then yours on here." And i have used a LEE, Dillon, Lyman, Rcbs and redding and have no regrets on my LEE purchase. Good luck

Curious as to what you drive...

http://www.crashrepairparts.com/markimages/VEH337.jpg

Bello
10-17-2010, 16:00
Curious as to what you drive...

http://www.crashrepairparts.com/markimages/VEH337.jpg


WTF does driving a car have to do with reloading? or even his post?

EL_NinO619
10-17-2010, 16:14
You got it, that's what i drive. By the way that is stupid and a lame point if your even trying to make one. Putting down a cheap car because you have a BMW is exactly what i mean. You people pay to much for your stuff and have to belittle people to make yourself feel better. Both cars get from A to B, you might get there faster, but no one needs a BMW for your first car. And not every one needs a billion rounds a hour. Oh ya next time don't park in front of you neighbors car. It's rude.:ack:

dudel
10-17-2010, 16:19
You guys are jokes..The Lee stuff works great. Don't be mad you spent all that money on stuff that cant load any better ammo than mine. Seriously i would put my ammo against yours all day long. To just bash on LEE products is a waste of time, yes they are not the best, either is any other press.

Blah, blah, blah. :tongueout: Talk to me after you've been reloading 20 years or so newb. If you're still reloading, lets see if you've still got your Lee stuff or if you've moved up.

If you've move up, then maybe you should have save lunch for a week or so, gotten a few less six packs and gotten gear that would have grown with you.

Go on, tell me how your Harbor Freight wrenches are as good as Snap-Ons :rofl:

dudel
10-17-2010, 16:24
The OP is a a guy on a budget,.

Check the OP again. The question asked was between the Lee or the RCBS kit in the Midway flyer. If he can afford either one, the RCBS is the better kit.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 16:27
True but how many different lengths do you trim 223 to? I trim only to the minimum which is what the Lee is designed to do. With the adjustable trimmer you have to re-adjust it every time you change calibers. I just put the correct length gage in the drill and go. I also chamfer and debur with the drill and can trim a lot of cases pretty fast.

Unless you need a very specific length (Like for a X-Die) I don't see a downside really. It wasn't a critique, just pointing out the products feature.

EL_NinO619
10-17-2010, 16:32
Blah, blah, blah. :tongueout: Talk to me after you've been reloading 20 years or so newb. If you're still reloading, lets see if you've still got your Lee stuff or if you've moved up.

If you've move up, then maybe you should have save lunch for a week or so, gotten a few less six packs and gotten gear that would have grown with you.

Go on, tell me how your Harbor Freight wrenches are as good as Snap-Ons :rofl:

Get a life Dude, wow apparently you came out of the womb with a Dillon up your a**.:baby: As far as having the Lee, yes i will along with a lot of other loaders that still have them. P.S. Dont drink, but thanks for the free financial advice.:drunk:

dudel
10-17-2010, 16:43
True but how many different lengths do you trim 223 to? I trim only to the minimum which is what the Lee is designed to do. With the adjustable trimmer you have to re-adjust it every time you change calibers. I just put the correct length gage in the drill and go. I also chamfer and debur with the drill and can trim a lot of cases pretty fast.

On an AR not many. On bolt actions however, more advanced loaders vary it to minimize headspace. Ever wonder why ALL the high end (and medium end for that matter) trimmers are adjustable? They didn't do it for giggles.

Lee just did it to make a cheap trimmer. More power to him. It's like an Instamatic camera (for those who remember them). They would work under average conditions; just don't try to use them outside the narrow range they were designed for.

I started with Lee trimmers. Took several years before the limitations affected me. When they did, all the Lee pilots, cutters and shell holders were useless (to me anyway). I need to put them on eBay. I don't see how you can get any speed out of them. That crazy shellholder and stud arrangement made me loath trimming. The Wilson unit is not big bucks. Mine was around $30. That's not a big expenditure; but it's a pleasure to use.

dudel
10-17-2010, 16:52
Get a life Dude, wow apparently you came out of the womb with a Dillon up your a**.:baby: As far as having the Lee, yes i will along with a lot of other loaders that still have them. P.S. Dont drink, but thanks for the free financial advice.:drunk:

No I wasn't born with a Dillon. I got mine only about a year ago. I'd been running a single stage Rock Chucker for many years turning out plenty of good ammo. I had a less than positive experience 15 years ago with a Hornady Pro-Jector (an early early version of the current LNL); so I wasn't terribly interested in progressives.

When I needed to move up the production, I figured I'd get a second single stage. It was a Lee Challenger. I figured I'd use it for light duty. It stunk (but then I was used to the RC). I tried an LCT. It lasted all of 3 months. Not for me. I bit the bullet and got the 550. I should have gotten the 550 many, many years ago, and been done with it.

I'm not bashing Lee stuff. I think they make a fine casting pot and I have many of the moulds. I also have a number of their dies (added a Lee set for 45 GAP just this month), and I like their Auto Primes (of which I still have two). I'm a big fan of the Carbide Crimp Dies as a quick search of this forum will show. I'm just not a big fan of their presses. Is that so hard to understand.

I guess to a kid with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. In time you will learn.

Uncle Don
10-17-2010, 16:56
My other hobby is woodworking and my choice of hand planes is Lie Nielsen which are the most expensive and among the highest quality available. I bought them because they work so much better than other choices and they give me the results I want. What I don't do is slam other brands as everyone makes a choice that suits them.

I've also loaded since 1985 and had a RC once. Sure, it worked fine, but my single stage now is a Lee Classic Cast. It's also cast iron and steel, has a higher clearance, a near flawless primer disposal system, solid linkage and a ram that is thicker than the RC. It's also less than 1/2 the price. I also have other Lee tools and buy them because they do the job every bit as well as anything else on the market. In contrast to my first example, it simply doesn't make sense to me to spend more when the quality outcome of the finished product is identical.

If you choose another brand - great, whatever floats your boat, but to simply bash one company in general in my opinion shows ignorance while trying to postulate expertise. I have a few colors on my bench but have found Lee equipment to be a great value.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 16:57
Yeah, he said "Carbide Crimp Die" What the heck is that? It sounds familiar.

EL_NinO619
10-17-2010, 17:05
My other hobby is woodworking and my choice of hand planes is Lie Nielsen which are the most expensive and among the highest quality available. I bought them because they work so much better than other choices and they give me the results I want. What I don't do is slam other brands as everyone makes a choice that suits them.

I've also loaded since 1985 and had a RC once. Sure, it worked fine, but my single stage now is a Lee Classic Cast. It's also cast iron and steel, has a higher clearance, a near flawless primer disposal system, solid linkage and a ram that is thicker than the RC. It's also less than 1/2 the price. I also have other Lee tools and buy them because they do the job every bit as well as anything else on the market. In contrast to my first example, it simply doesn't make sense to me to spend more when the quality outcome of the finished product is identical.

If you choose another brand - great, whatever floats your boat, but to simply bash one company in general in my opinion shows ignorance while trying to postulate expertise. I have a few colors on my bench but have found Lee equipment to be a great value.


Well said. I agree the primer disposal system is one of the best i have seen. The rcbs one not so good and they seem to find away to fly on the floor.

As for a kid with a hammer, what I'm i supposed to come around and learn. Waste money because of others opinions.:dunno:

WiskyT
10-17-2010, 17:56
Check the OP again. The question asked was between the Lee or the RCBS kit in the Midway flyer. If he can afford either one, the RCBS is the better kit.

If he wasn't on a budget, I didn't think he'd be slumming in the Lee section of the Midway catalogue, he would just have his bulter ring up Holland and Holland and have them procure the various accoutrement to reload for his 500 Nitro.

WiskyT
10-17-2010, 18:01
My other hobby is woodworking and my choice of hand planes is Lie Nielsen which are the most expensive and among the highest quality available. I bought them because they work so much better than other choices and they give me the results I want. What I don't do is slam other brands as everyone makes a choice that suits them.


Yes, for something like that, for finish work etc. the best could be justified. There is an art aspect to it and there are certain intangibles in the result. But for a guy who just does repair work, the Stanley or whatever plane is probably just as good, maybe better. He can concentrate on his work and not worry about having his fine tools stolen by a pipehead on the job sight.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 18:01
Just because someone asks about the Lee doesn't mean they can't or don't want to buy a RCBS. If you haven't seen them and tried them you can't see the difference as easily looking at a flyer. So you come here to get advice. They you get this type of thread were people argue over stupid stuff rather then just admit the Lee is cheaper but servicable and the RCBS is clearly better but far more expensive. There is a reason for the price difference and some people don't care but others will care. Doesn't make either right or wrong.

Colorado4Wheel
10-17-2010, 18:07
My other hobby is woodworking and my choice of hand planes is Lie Nielsen which are the most expensive and among the highest quality available. I bought them because they work so much better than other choices and they give me the results I want. What I don't do is slam other brands as everyone makes a choice that suits them.

I've also loaded since 1985 and had a RC once. Sure, it worked fine, but my single stage now is a Lee Classic Cast. It's also cast iron and steel, has a higher clearance, a near flawless primer disposal system, solid linkage and a ram that is thicker than the RC. It's also less than 1/2 the price. I also have other Lee tools and buy them because they do the job every bit as well as anything else on the market. In contrast to my first example, it simply doesn't make sense to me to spend more when the quality outcome of the finished product is identical.

If you choose another brand - great, whatever floats your boat, but to simply bash one company in general in my opinion shows ignorance while trying to postulate expertise. I have a few colors on my bench but have found Lee equipment to be a great value.

Lee Classic Cast is a prefect example of were you get MORE then what you pay for. Good for LEE on that one. Same for the LCT. Other stuff I tend to list in the servicable department. They do have some great features on some of the Single Stage presses now. Priming setup is very good all things considered. Priming disposal is also very good. Other then the Classic line the presses are made with cheaper parts in the linkages for example.

Bello
10-17-2010, 18:30
prolly scared away the OP! :wow:

WiskyT
10-17-2010, 18:34
prolly scared away the OP! :wow:

That's the way it usually goes.

Bren
10-17-2010, 20:16
I'll add one more comment - My reloading bench has a Dillon 500 in the middle... and a Lee single stage from an anniversary kit on the right and a Lee turret press on the left. I use them all and they all suit a different purpose.

Zombie Steve
10-17-2010, 21:29
WTF does driving a car have to do with reloading? or even his post?

You got it, that's what i drive. By the way that is stupid and a lame point if your even trying to make one. Putting down a cheap car because you have a BMW is exactly what i mean. You people pay to much for your stuff and have to belittle people to make yourself feel better. Both cars get from A to B, you might get there faster, but no one needs a BMW for your first car. And not every one needs a billion rounds a hour. Oh ya next time don't park in front of you neighbors car. It's rude.:ack:

My point is exactly that... that car gets you from point A to point B just like you can reload with a Lee Challenger kit. If you think I'm belittling you, you're nuts. I don't load on a progressive, I load on a Rockchucker. When I looked at the Lee, I knew it would get the job done, but I decided that spending a little more up front would spare me a lifetime of dealing with a press that I didn't like because the ones I saw had a lot of slop in them. I don't buy the cheapest hiking boots I can find, I don't eat the cheapest food I can find.... At the same time, I'm not eating steak and lobster every night, and I drive a 10 year old 4-Runner. You're talking about price, and I'm talking about value. I think in the long run, the Rockchucker is the better value.

You may not realize it, but you've already made this same kind of decision, or you'd be using this with a hammer:

http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/leeloader.jpg


If you want to make it into a class warfare argument on Glocktalk, you should know you're probably not in real friendly territory.

EL_NinO619
10-17-2010, 21:53
I am not trying to create any war, or argue all day. I am just saying that when people ask for information the answer should be unbiased and not turn into a war. I just think for a first press ( which 95% of people will upgrade anyways) The Lee is more than enough. And not every thing that is cheap is always crap. The lee kit will get him rolling and on to a hobby that is limitless on money you will spend, ask Jack. Since i got into the hobby awhile ago i have noticed there is way to much ego, and i know this and your retarded because you don't attitude. That is my 1 and only complaint about the firearm hobby. I think people should be more respectful and helpful, because you where once new to the hobby, and some people may only be able to afford LEE. Someone is always bigger and badder, and there will always be a better press out there. I like this site and enjoy everyone on here but its a real negative with all this Blue vs Red and this press is inferior Blah Blah Blah. Just my $0.02 on people should be a little more respectful and i will try also. Thanks

Colorado4Wheel
10-18-2010, 15:47
I just think for a first press ( which 95% of people will upgrade anyways) The Lee is more than enough. And not every thing that is cheap is always crap. The lee kit will get him rolling and on to a hobby that is limitless on money you will spend, ask Jack. Since i got into the hobby awhile ago i have noticed there is way to much ego, and i know this and your retarded because you don't attitude.

I don't think it's ego. I think it's experiance. IF and thats a big IF I had taken the same advice I am giving now I would have saved myself a lot of money and trouble. There is a point of spending too much but their is also a point of realizing that you can afford a little more and might actually appreciate the differences that extra money gets you. I owned three presses in a pretty short period of time. The advice from people who listened (and had more experiance) then me said "Get a 550". They knew that because of the type of shooting I did and the quantity I was likely to do the 550 was the best press for me. Thats was back when the LnL was not EZ Eject and as a result was NOT 100% with 9mm (my primary caliber). So other then the SDB the 550 was the only real option. I instead tried the LCT (great press for the money) and a LM. I have owned the 550 for years now. I could have saved a decent amount of money just getting it from the start. Lee makes a Lee Classic Cast single stage for a reason. Some people just want a slightly nicer product. The may not need it but they want it. Nothing wrong with that.

RustyFN
10-18-2010, 15:52
If he wasn't on a budget, I didn't think he'd be slumming in the Lee section of the Midway catalogue,

:rofl: Now that is funny I don't care what color choice you use.