Loading plated bullets vs. jacketed [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glock-n-roll
10-14-2010, 09:14
I'm gearing up to reload .40 S&W and in doing my research have come across plated bullets. They are cheaper than jacketed bullets but not as cheap as lead and since I'm shooting a Glock, the plated bullets look like a good compromise. Are there any procedural differences in loading plated vs. jacketed?

Flipz
10-14-2010, 09:19
Just get some FMJ's or JHP's from Montana Gold Bullets. Same price as most of the plated bullets out there but they are jacketed.

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 09:20
Load plated as if you are loading lead. Keep the velocities down below the recommended max by the manufacturer. I used to load Berry's 155 and 165 for .40 good bullets for a G23/27. I would recommend a slower powder for the plated... WSF/WST. I did have very good results with TG though in the 155g RNDSHB, very accurate and good recoil pulse for a mid-upper range .40 load.

XDRoX
10-14-2010, 09:22
I'm gearing up to reload .40 S&W and in doing my research have come across plated bullets. They are cheaper than jacketed bullets but not as cheap as lead and since I'm shooting a Glock, the plated bullets look like a good compromise. Are there any procedural differences in loading plated vs. jacketed?

The only thing for a newbie to worry about is not being able to find data for plated bullets. Plated data falls between jacketed and lead. So you may have to do some extrapolating, which may be a little unsettling in the beginning.

They are plating bullets much better and thicker that they were just a few years ago. I believe Berry's says that you can use jacketed data. But IMO you would be wise to start closer to the lead data.

I exclusively shoot plated in 9mm and 45, and love the results.

Don At PC
10-14-2010, 09:24
Let me start by saying that "All Plated Bullets are Not Created Equal". I have been shooting nothing but Xtreme Plated Bullets (Use to be called West Coast Bullets) and I feel they are the absolute best plated bullet on the market. They are consistant in weight, size and very accurate. Plated bullets should not be loaded as +P loads or over crimped. I load all mine (.45,.40, .38/.357 and 9mm) on the low end of the recommended loading scale and they shoot great. I have checked some other plated bullets and have found them to vary quite a bit in weight, uniformity and more thin shell copper clad.

Hope this helps.

Don

XDRoX
10-14-2010, 09:24
Here is what Berry's has to say:

Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 09:28
Just get some FMJ's or JHP's from Montana Gold Bullets. Same price as most of the plated bullets out there but they are jacketed.

MG's are great bullets no doubt but at best you still pay $20 a K more over Berry's and even more over a Ranier in the same weight style bullet.

https://secure3.mooseweb.com/montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.tpl

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14497-c14-g8-b0-p0-.40_Cal_165gr_FP.aspx

At my round count of 2K a month (now in all 9mm and .45) that can be $480 a year, hence the reason I gave up .40 for the majority of my reloading / competition shooting needs.

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 09:37
Let me start by saying that "All Plated Bullets are Not Created Equal". I have been shooting nothing but Xtreme Plated Bullets (Use to be called West Coast Bullets) and I feel they are the absolute best plated bullet on the market. They are consistant in weight, size and very accurate. Plated bullets should not be loaded as +P loads or over crimped. I load all mine (.45,.40, .38/.357 and 9mm) on the low end of the recommended loading scale and they shoot great. I have checked some other plated bullets and have found them to vary quite a bit in weight, uniformity and more thin shell copper clad.

Hope this helps.

Don

Is there any bulk discount with Xtreme Plated? I would order 10K at at time, for max discounts from Precision Delta's 124 FMJ's at $70 a K. That a significant savings over Xtreme Plated for the same bullet profile and weight. What gives?

freakshow10mm
10-14-2010, 09:37
Berry's and Rainier plated bullets have thin jackets and should be used with lead data.

Xtreme bullets are thicker jackets and should be used with jacketed data (the thickness of the plating is identical to cup and core jacketed bullets).

I use Xtreme plated bullets in my personal ammo and my commercial ammo.

You can also get Xtreme plated bullets for $20 per K cheaper than Montana Gold's case price. Getting a case of 180gr FMJ from them is $120 per K shipped. Xtreme plated from TJ Conevera will run $99 shipped. The plated bullet will be 100% encapsulated to prevent the base from being burned by the powder and will keep your gun cleaner as a result.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you are willing to save $20 or not.

bowtie454
10-14-2010, 09:41
Tagged.

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 10:03
Berry's and Rainier plated bullets have thin jackets and should be used with lead data.

Xtreme bullets are thicker jackets and should be used with jacketed data (the thickness of the plating is identical to cup and core jacketed bullets).

I use Xtreme plated bullets in my personal ammo and my commercial ammo.

You can also get Xtreme plated bullets for $20 per K cheaper than Montana Gold's case price. Getting a case of 180gr FMJ from them is $120 per K shipped. Xtreme plated from TJ Conevera will run $99 shipped. The plated bullet will be 100% encapsulated to prevent the base from being burned by the powder and will keep your gun cleaner as a result.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you are willing to save $20 or not.

Thanks for the heads up Freak, unfortunately TJ Conevera doesn't list the 124g in 9mm. I would like to give those a shot if I could break the $70 a K mark for 9mm. I'm not impressed with the Raniers at all, the Berry's have been good but still about the same price as PD FMJ's.

XDRoX
10-14-2010, 10:06
Thanks for the heads up Freak, unfortunately TJ Conevera doesn't list the 124g in 9mm. I would like to give those a shot if I could break the $70 a K mark for 9mm. I'm not impressed with the Raniers at all, the Berry's have been good but still about the same price as PD FMJ's.

Rainier didn't do it for me either. I really like Berry's and although they are a bit pricey, that's what I use.

fredj338
10-14-2010, 10:09
For blasign ammo, the PrecDelta jacketed is quite a bit cheaper than most plated. Nothing wrong w/ plated bullets but price lately.

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 10:13
For blasign ammo, the PrecDelta jacketed is quite a bit cheaper than most plated. Nothing wrong w/ plated bullets but price lately.

OK, I give :dunno: what the hell is "blasign ammo" Fred?

ron59
10-14-2010, 10:16
MG's are great bullets no doubt but at best you still pay $20 a K more over Berry's and even more over a Ranier in the same weight style bullet.

https://secure3.mooseweb.com/montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.tpl

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14497-c14-g8-b0-p0-.40_Cal_165gr_FP.aspx

At my round count of 2K a month (now in all 9mm and .45) that can be $480 a year, hence the reason I gave up .40 for the majority of my reloading / competition shooting needs.

Actually, I think you SAVE money at Montana Gold?

Yes, if you buy 1000 from MG, vs. 1000 from Berrys... MG is more expensive.

HOWEVER... I don't see on Berry's site where they give a quantity discount. At MG, you can get 2700 bullets for $295. At Berry's, it's $331 for 3000.

Break that down into price per bullet (amount / number of bullets), and MG is under $.11 per bullet ($0.109), whereas Berry's is over ($0.110). Not a HUGE savings, but if I can get a QUALITY jacketed bullet for less than a plated bullet? No brainer. And it's certainly not *more* expensive as you said, and it's not like you have to make a huge order to get the quantity discount.

I ALWAYS try to take advantage of bulk buying. Just like when I order primers online, I get a minimum of 10,000, and try to get some powder with it. That makes the hazmat fee spread out further, and brings total cost down.

Math is your friend. :supergrin:

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 10:25
Actually, I think you SAVE money at Montana Gold?

Yes, if you buy 1000 from MG, vs. 1000 from Berrys... MG is more expensive.

HOWEVER... I don't see on Berry's site where they give a quantity discount. At MG, you can get 2700 bullets for $295. At Berry's, it's $331 for 3000.

Break that down into price per bullet (amount / number of bullets), and MG is under $.11 per bullet ($0.109), whereas Berry's is over ($0.110). Not a HUGE savings, but if I can get a QUALITY jacketed bullet for less than a plated bullet? No brainer. And it's certainly not *more* expensive as you said, and it's not like you have to make a huge order to get the quantity discount.

I ALWAYS try to take advantage of bulk buying. Just like when I order primers online, I get a minimum of 10,000, and try to get some powder with it. That makes the hazmat fee spread out further, and brings total cost down.

Math is your friend. :supergrin:

I agree Ron bulk buying is where you see the real savings... I try to do the same.

Don At PC
10-14-2010, 10:28
Is there any bulk discount with Xtreme Plated? I would order 10K at at time, for max discounts from Precision Delta's 124 FMJ's at $70 a K. That a significant savings over Xtreme Plated for the same bullet profile and weight. What gives?

Yes. If you get 200 lbs of bullets they ship them by freight instead of UPS and also large quantities gets a discount. There are usually 6 or 8 of us who shoot together and place a large order. the last large order we made was something like 112,000 bullets. I got 10,000 myself of 9mm 135gr bullets. Here is their web site: http://www.xtremebullets.com/ and their ph# is 1-800-482-2103.

Don

Boxerglocker
10-14-2010, 10:51
Yes. If you get 200 lbs of bullets they ship them by freight instead of UPS and also large quantities gets a discount. There are usually 6 or 8 of us who shoot together and place a large order. the last large order we made was something like 112,000 bullets. I got 10,000 myself of 9mm 135gr bullets. Here is their web site: http://www.xtremebullets.com/ and their ph# is 1-800-482-2103.

Don

Thank you, I'll look into them.

freakshow10mm
10-14-2010, 11:04
Thanks for the heads up Freak, unfortunately TJ Conevera doesn't list the 124g in 9mm. I would like to give those a shot if I could break the $70 a K mark for 9mm. I'm not impressed with the Raniers at all, the Berry's have been good but still about the same price as PD FMJ's.
I don't think they make a 124gr. I know Berry's does and that's what I have 1K left of. I changed all my ammo over to 147gr for the 9mm, mostly for suppressed shooting but it's also softer and more accurate for IDPA/USPSA shooting. I just wish the bullets were cheaper like the 115gr and 124gr.

fredj338
10-14-2010, 11:45
OK, I give :dunno: what the hell is "blasign ammo" Fred?
BLASTING. My fingers don't want to work after I wash my hands. It's a good thing I don't rely on my typing skills to put food on the table.:tongueout:

glock-n-roll
10-14-2010, 12:04
Thanks for the feedback fellas. TJConvera has a pretty good deal on there plated bullets. Precision Delta is just a few bucks more for jacketed. I'll probably go with the bullets/brass deal @ Convera first. This will be fun working up a new load. I don't have a chrony though (yet), any good recipies for 180 gr plated with WSF? My goal is to produce a good range round mostly for target practice and defensive training, I'm not trying to create a SD / HD round.

freakshow10mm
10-14-2010, 13:17
5.5gr WSF 180gr bullet at 1.125 OAL does about 950fps all day long.

Bello
10-14-2010, 14:27
its about all i use is extreme really nice bullets.. i was looking up data and called extreme two times got the same answer both times load to the same specs in speer manual!

steve4102
10-14-2010, 15:32
No more plated for me. I'll stick with Zero Jacketed for less $$ than plated.

Steve in PA
10-14-2010, 15:39
I've loaded Rainier plated bullets for 9mm and .45acp for years.......both are loaded to regular jacketed ammo (7.0gr of HS6 for 115gr 9mm and 6.5gr of Unique for 230gr .45acp).

XDRoX
10-14-2010, 15:47
I've loaded Rainier plated bullets for 9mm and .45acp for years.......both are loaded to regular jacketed ammo (7.0gr of HS6 for 115gr 9mm and 6.5gr of Unique for 230gr .45acp).

Have you chrono'd these rounds?
Why were you loading plated bullets to jacketed data?

Whenever I chron'd plated rounds with jacketed data they always had a higher velocity than the published jacketed data.

Couldn't loading plated bullets to high end jacketed data be dangerous?

srt-4_jon
10-14-2010, 15:55
No more plated for me. I'll stick with Zero Jacketed for less $$ than plated.

Where are you buying Zero bullets for less money than plated bullets?

freakshow10mm
10-14-2010, 16:14
Good luck finding Zero bullets in stock anywhere.

slowhand23
10-14-2010, 16:32
I suggest getting your shooting buddies involved in a large group order from Manny at mannyusa.com. Montana Gold 124 CMJ for $269 a case (3750) shipped with 6 case minimum. Works out to $71.73 per thousand.

Even if you can't meet the minimum give him a call for a better price.

Montana Gold .40 165gr CMJ $284/case (2700) or $105 per thousand
http://www.mannyusa.com/Firearms_Training/product/10mm165grCMJ.html

steve4102
10-14-2010, 16:33
Good luck finding Zero bullets in stock anywhere.

OH, there's some out there, plenty of 45 230gr JHP/FMJ, 9MM 115/124gr FMJ and 40cal 165/180gr TCFM. No 180gr JHP right now, but I just place and order and when they become available they show up on my door step, may take awhile, but they do show up.
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZJB

ursoboostd
10-14-2010, 20:10
I really like the Xtreme bullets too. I'm loading them in 9mm, 38spl, 40 and 45 right now. Here is my current 40 load. -Wade-

180gr Xtreme plated RNFP
5.6gr of Unique
1.120" OAL
870fps out of G23 <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

freakshow10mm
10-14-2010, 22:16
OH, there's some out there, plenty of 45 230gr JHP/FMJ, 9MM 115/124gr FMJ and 40cal 165/180gr TCFM. No 180gr JHP right now, but I just place and order and when they become available they show up on my door step, may take awhile, but they do show up.
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZJB
Right. But I place an order for any Xtreme bullets and they arrive 3 days later. That's my point. Sure the Zeros will come but there is a very long wait time. They can't satisfy my needs. The Xtreme is more available, cheaper price, and the targets can't tell the difference.

fredj338
10-14-2010, 23:42
Have you chrono'd these rounds?
Why were you loading plated bullets to jacketed data?

Couldn't loading plated bullets to high end jacketed data be dangerous?
In a word, yes. It's why the data is NOT interchangeable. If the plating & core are close to jacketed, then they would load like jacketed. With Ranier & Berry's, very thin plating & very soft cores, more like a lead bullet.

Sonnytoo
10-15-2010, 00:46
They are plating bullets much better and thicker that they were just a few years ago. I believe Berry's says that you can use jacketed data. But IMO you would be wise to start closer to the lead data.

I exclusively shoot plated in 9mm and 45, and love the results.

Berry's: They found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual.

Rainier Ballistics, on the other hand, recommends using lead bullet load data when loading their bullets.

You can see this on their websites in FAQ sections.

frankt
10-15-2010, 08:37
I prefer to pay the few extra cents for MG or Zero Jacketed bullets. MG come right away, Zero sometimes take a while from Roze.
There are less variables and less things to worry about with jacketed VS Plated.

fredj338
10-15-2010, 09:55
I prefer to pay the few extra cents for MG or Zero Jacketed bullets. MG come right away, Zero sometimes take a while from Roze.
There are less variables and less things to worry about with jacketed VS Plated.Very true & what I recommend to newb reloaders. Tough finding much data for lead or plated bullets. Me, for very inexpensive shooting,
I shoot lead almost exclusively.:supergrin:

Flipz
10-15-2010, 11:44
Even if you find plated bullets for $20 less per K then MG, in most cases you still have to pay for the shipping which makes that $20 savings you thought you made disappear. MG ships for $5. If all things are equal as far as cost, Id go with jackets rounds over plated any day.

freakshow10mm
10-15-2010, 11:54
Even if you find plated bullets for $20 less per K then MG, in most cases you still have to pay for the shipping which makes that $20 savings you thought you made disappear. MG ships for $5. If all things are equal as far as cost, Id go with jackets rounds over plated any day.
No, I'm saying for plated it's $20 per K less than MG with shipping included.

Also if you want to save the $5 residential shipping, have it shipped to a commercial address.

srt-4_jon
10-15-2010, 13:14
If all things are equal as far as cost, Id go with jackets rounds over plated any day.
I agree with you here. But again, where are people finding jacket bullets for less than plated bullets?

SDGlock23
10-15-2010, 13:22
It's already been said I believe, but Precision Delta makes a pretty darn good jacketed bullet that is cheaper than plated. I have used quite a bit of them in .40 and .45.

njl
10-24-2010, 17:59
Freak: so I'm tempted to try some X-treme 147gr (they do make 124gr, but for some reason TJ doesn't seem to sell them). Delivered, these would cost the same as 124gr CMJ from MG...and I'd use less powder, so there is some savings. :)

If you have one laying around, can you tell me how long the X-treme 147gr bullets are, and what OAL you load them to? I just loaded some of the 147gr GDHP's I got from TJ, and I liked how they shot, but even at sale price, they're too much $ to use for regular blasting ammo.

IIRC, Hornady XTP 147gr and Speer GDHP are both about 0.655 and I just wonder if these are even longer since they're not HPs.

kelevra
10-25-2010, 13:28
I've been using Berry's coated bullets for most of my loads and had no problems. I agree and been told to load w/ the lead bullet data. One of the main differences between fmj and plated is that the plated swells more before exiting the barrel. I don't know if this has any significant effect on accuracy but I do load light and my groupings are much better than factory in comparison w/ bullet grain.

HAMMERHEAD
10-25-2010, 16:27
Berry's is introducing a new thick plated .401" 165 grain bullet for the 10mm and .40S&W. It should handle higher velocities.
Jay is sending me a sample, I think I need to start loading some hotter 10mm loads and see what these can do.
I've had great luck with plated bullets.
The .45acp 200 grain plated SWC is a real accurate bullet in a wide variety of pistols.

MrOldLude
10-26-2010, 09:04
Also, fwiw, Powder Valley now sells Berry's. It's 60.80 per thousand of 115 gr, RNDS 9mm.

Shipping isn't included as far as I'm aware, but they're within driving distance for me, so I pay sales tax and 2 gallons of gas.

freakshow10mm
10-26-2010, 11:10
Freak: so I'm tempted to try some X-treme 147gr (they do make 124gr, but for some reason TJ doesn't seem to sell them). Delivered, these would cost the same as 124gr CMJ from MG...and I'd use less powder, so there is some savings. :)

If you have one laying around, can you tell me how long the X-treme 147gr bullets are, and what OAL you load them to? I just loaded some of the 147gr GDHP's I got from TJ, and I liked how they shot, but even at sale price, they're too much $ to use for regular blasting ammo.

IIRC, Hornady XTP 147gr and Speer GDHP are both about 0.655 and I just wonder if these are even longer since they're not HPs.
Sorry, I haven't been on in a few days.

The Xtreme 147gr RN measures .6590 long. I load them to 1.10 to 1.17 depending on application. My minor ammunition is loaded to 1.125. Most Glocks like them at 1.15 and 1911s like them at 1.17+.

njl
10-27-2010, 07:24
Sorry, I haven't been on in a few days.

The Xtreme 147gr RN measures .6590 long. I load them to 1.10 to 1.17 depending on application. My minor ammunition is loaded to 1.125. Most Glocks like them at 1.15 and 1911s like them at 1.17+.

That's ok. I've already ordered 1k, but they're not here yet. So you can load these as long as 1.15" and not hit the rifling in Glocks? It sounds like they're within variance about as long as the 147gr GDHP and XTP. I bet at 1.115" with 3gr Universal they'll be nice and soft shooting, but just under minor PF...but can be pushed to minor with WST. If I'm lucky, I might get them in time to load some to chrony on Sunday.

njl
10-30-2010, 09:24
My X-Treme's arrived. Wow, these things are bright and shiny. Unfortunately, my new scale did not arrive, so it looks like I won't be doing any loading for a few more days.

njl
10-30-2010, 12:54
Looks like I spoke to soon. I'd expected the scale to be coming via Fedex Home, but it shipped USPS and just arrived.

bradbury
10-30-2010, 18:17
used my first plated bullets today (berry 185 gr jhp) ...use low to mid spec loads for jacketed rounds and you'll be fine...5.1 grains of titegroup, o.a.l .of 1.200 for fiocchi brass, and 1.220 for rem. brass(you'r particular chamber never lies); a .469 dia, with a light taper crimp and they shot very accurate with little recoil...my local supplier was out of the zero bullets, so tried the berry's and was pleasantly surprised...if there was a greater difference in price between the two i'd stay with the berry's...but for about the same money there's really no reason to shoot the plated...unless they're out of you'r favorite metal jacket:supergrin:

njl
10-31-2010, 09:46
Didn't someone say X-Treme's have really thick plating, about as thick as FMJ?

I loaded up some test rounds last night, and my 9mm Dillon seater left a distinct ring around the tip of every X-Treme bullet it seated. Maybe its because they're pointier than the 124gr FMJs I've loaded and they were making less contact with the walls of the seating stem and more with the top of it, which has a hole bored through it?

Anyway...I loaded some with Universal Clays and some with WST. Probably won't get to test them until next weekend.

Stupid
11-14-2010, 22:36
tag. tag

dudel
11-15-2010, 01:57
Yes. If you get 200 lbs of bullets they ship them by freight instead of UPS and also large quantities gets a discount. There are usually 6 or 8 of us who shoot together and place a large order. the last large order we made was something like 112,000 bullets. I got 10,000 myself of 9mm 135gr bullets. Here is their web site: http://www.xtremebullets.com/ and their ph# is 1-800-482-2103.

Don

Prices look good. Compared to PD, they seem to offer a greater variety. I went to PD to look for their .45 offerings (or ACP and GAP) and all I could find in FMJ was 230gr RN. I tend to shoot more Rainier 200gr HP as it seems to work well in ACP and GAP.

PD did have a good deal in 9mm 115gr FMJ. Prices were a bit misleading as you needed to order 2K to beat the Berry's price. 2K is a bit more than I want to test (or be stuck with if they don't work out). So far, they've been fine in the Glocks; but not so good in the PT709.

xdmikey
11-16-2010, 21:20
njl-
my lnl seater leaves the same mark on my berry's 124s but it always goes away once it's shot!

GioaJack
11-16-2010, 21:35
njl-
my lnl seater leaves the same mark on my berry's 124s but it always goes away once it's shot!


Use epoxy or JB Weld to modify the shape of your seating stem. Easily removed when you change bullet profiles.


Jack

njl
11-16-2010, 21:49
Use epoxy or JB Weld to modify the shape of your seating stem. Easily removed when you change bullet profiles.


Jack

The epoxy or JB Weld, or the entire seating stem? I wonder, why does Dillon drill a hole down through the center of the seating stem?

GioaJack
11-16-2010, 22:02
I'm not sure where Dillon has their hole, I'd have to go look but most manufacturers put it on the side of the seating die. It's just a pressure relief outlet, supposed to help keep OAL's consistent. I guess it works I've got really old dies with 'em

To modify your seating stem to fit a particular nose design pull the seating stem out of the die and degrease it well with some alcohol. Mix up some two part epoxy or JB Weld and fill the end of the seating stem. Replace the stem into the die.

Take a dummy round loaded with your new bullet design and lightly coat the bullet with oil to keep it from sticking to the epoxy.

Run your ram up with the round in the shell plate or holder into the seating die. Screw the seating stem down until it contacts the bullet and the another 1/16 of a turn or so. Drop the ram, unscrew the seating stem and make sure the epoxy has the imprinted bullet form in it. (If not repeat and screw the stem down a little further.)

Wipe off any epoxy the may have smeared on the sides of the stem and let it cure overnight.

You now have a custom seating stem.


Jack