How many rounds should i load initially? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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wrx04
10-15-2010, 13:03
My press is all set up, i finally have all the reloading components, and i just heard from STI that my gun is being shipped monday morning. I'm gonna load up some rounds tonight, but not sure how many i should do. Should i only load a few in case the load doesnt work well in my gun, or am i safe to just load up 100-200 right off the bat?

I'm loading montana gold 230gr FMJ and 5.9gr of unique.

Cant wait to sit in the bathroom and reload all night:supergrin:

XDRoX
10-15-2010, 13:14
I would load 10 of each. Each 10 with different weight powder throws.
For example:
10 with 5.8gr
10 with 5.9gr
10 with 6.0gr
etc...
Checking for signs of over-pressure as you go.

Pulling rounds is no fun in case the don't work.

You can also see what ones are most accurate.

fredj338
10-15-2010, 13:32
I would load 10 of each. Each 10 with different weight powder throws.
For example:
10 with 5.8gr
10 with 5.9gr
10 with 6.0gr
etc...
Checking for signs of over-pressure as you go.

Pulling rounds is no fun in case the don't work.

You can also see what ones are most accurate.
This is good advice. For a teacher, Chris listens pretty well.:rofl:
Would it be safe to load your specific load? Maybe, depends. It's why we workup loads & test them. What about your OAL? The wrong OAL can cause feeding issues or pressure issues. It's not just stuffing powder & a bullet in the case & go shoot. Can that work, sure, blind squirrel finds a nut every once & awhile, but it's not ideal or really safe. Slow down, do it right, you'll thank us for it when you don't have to pull down 98 of your 100rds that were loaded too long an OAL to function.:whistling:

keyser
10-15-2010, 13:33
I would wait until your gun comes to determine the OAL you are going to need/want. Guns with tight tolerances can be picky.

keyser
10-15-2010, 13:35
We must have been typing at the same time.

rg1
10-15-2010, 13:35
It doesn't make any difference because the laws of probability will show up at the range. Either your gun won't like the loads you've loaded and you will have to pull down some or a hundred, OR more likely you'll load 10 to 25 each and they will shoot great and you want to do more testing or sighting in and you will be out of ammo requiring another trip to the range.
It's easy to pull down loaded .45's so I wouldn't worry about that. I just remove my decapping pin and resize and reload pulled down cases.
Your load at 5.9 grains of Unique should shoot well and is in a safe load range. I'd load at least a box of 50 but you may want to load a few at 6.0 to a maximum of 6.5 grains of Unique. Starting at 5.8 and working up is wise.

LASTRESORT20
10-15-2010, 13:37
I would load 10 of each. Each 10 with different weight powder throws.
For example:
10 with 5.8gr
10 with 5.9gr
10 with 6.0gr
etc...
Checking for signs of over-pressure as you go.

Pulling rounds is no fun in case the don't work.

You can also see what ones are most accurate.


Very good points...and agree.

fredj338
10-15-2010, 13:40
I would wait until your gun comes to determine the OAL you are going to need/want. Guns with tight tolerances can be picky.
This is very true. I grabbed a box of ammo to go to the range the other day. The rounds work fine in all my 1911s but I was shooting a XDTAC that day. Guess what, the rounds were 0.10" too long for reliable cycling, the bullets hit the short throat of the XD's bbl & prevented the slide from going completely to battery.
Not trying to be "abrasive", but WAIT until you get your pistol. Make 3-4 dummy rounds to hand cycle thru your pistol to make sure they feed. Then make your loads up like XDrox stated. You'll ultimately be a better reloader doing it right vs rushing ahead & having to backtrack IMO.

wrx04
10-15-2010, 14:15
Thanks for the replies guys. I may make 1 or two rounds tonight to get the dies adjusted correctly, but i will wait for my gun to arrive.

shotgunred
10-15-2010, 14:22
Have you bought a kinetic hammer yet?
I have never had to use mine :rofl: but everyone needs one.

GioaJack
10-15-2010, 14:45
If they're going to work load a few thousand and have a ball... if they're not going to work then two is one too many.

Hey, it makes sense to me.


Jack

Bello
10-15-2010, 14:54
[QUOTE=wrx04;16147231

Cant wait to sit in the bathroom and reload all night:supergrin:[/QUOTE]

did i start that hahhahah

robin303
10-15-2010, 21:04
I used to do 10 but after testing them through a chrono and have just one error reading I do 15 just in case.

wrx04
10-15-2010, 21:59
Alright guys, need a little help/advice. I loaded two rounds, and built the OAL and width directly out of Lyman's for 45ACP. I compared my rounds to some WWB, and mine seem a little larger. The gauge that came with my dillon set drops the wwb round in nicely, while mine dont sit flush with the top. What did i do wrong, or do i have to wait for my specific barrel to test accurately?

Sorry i'm a tard and dont know how to post pics properly. Thanks in advance for the advice:wavey:

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/402/img1121.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2544/img1123w.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7210/img1124qh.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3120/img1125bw.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9962/img1127d.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9481/img1128d.jpg

Boxerglocker
10-15-2010, 22:12
Measure your crimp dimension again and post please. I suspect you don't have enough crimp to remove the bell. It should be measured at the very edge of the case, just before the bullet. Ideally around 0.471 but right at that spot mentioned.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3120/img1125bw.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9481/img1128d.jpg

fredj338
10-16-2010, 00:21
Alright guys, need a little help/advice. I loaded two rounds, and built the OAL and width directly out of Lyman's for 45ACP. I compared my rounds to some WWB, and mine seem a little larger. The gauge that came with my dillon set drops the wwb round in nicely, while mine dont sit flush with the top. What did i do wrong, or do i have to wait for my specific barrel to test accurately?

Sorry i'm a tard and dont know how to post pics properly. Thanks in advance for the advice:wavey:

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/402/img1121.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2544/img1123w.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7210/img1124qh.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3120/img1125bw.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9962/img1127d.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9481/img1128d.jpg

Your pic looks like you did NOT crimp at all. You must crimp, always crimp, never not crimp. I know that sounds "Abrasive" but if you have read you reloading manual, it will explain the improtance of crimping properly. It's the only way to insure reliable ammo.
I would also NOT load to the Lyman 1.269"OAL. That is quite long & can be an issue in some guns. Since you do NOT have your gun to check OAL (the gage does NOT do this) then I would shorten them a bit, 1.255"-1.260", just a little wiggle room. I think you are getting waaaaay ahead of yourself, but you don't seem to be listening to everyones advice.:dunno: So how much & what powder did you put in therm?

XDRoX
10-16-2010, 01:57
Something's definitely not right. The rounds should be case gauging in that Dillon case gauge.

A couple things to check. Do you have the sizing die low enough?

And as Fred said, they don't appear to have much of a crimp. First make sure the sizing die is set correctly and then tighten up that crimp until the rounds case gauge.

Also as Fred said, you're loading them too long. I bet you'll run into problems with them that long.

I load to 1.250".

dudel
10-16-2010, 07:07
Alright guys, need a little help/advice. I loaded two rounds, and built the OAL and width directly out of Lyman's for 45ACP. I compared my rounds to some WWB, and mine seem a little larger. The gauge that came with my dillon set drops the wwb round in nicely, while mine dont sit flush with the top. What did i do wrong, or do i have to wait for my specific barrel to test accurately?

Sorry i'm a tard and dont know how to post pics properly. Thanks in advance for the advice:wavey:



As others have said, it looks like the flare is still there.

I bet you doing seating and crimping in the same step. This is harder to set up than doing it in two steps.

Review your steps on seting up the seating/crimp die. It looks like the OAL has some variance. Did you raise the die (instead of the seater) to get a longer OAL? It's a common newb mistake.

When you set up the die, you want to set the OAL first, then raise the seater and set the crimp. You can use the case gauge at this point, and keep adding crimp (within reason!) until the case seats in the case guage - assuming it's been fully resized). When the crimp is set, then raise the round, lock the die body down, then tighten down the seater plug till it makes contact with the round (that was previously set to proper OAL). Harder to explain, easier to demonstrate. There must be a YouTube on it.

shotgunred
10-16-2010, 09:54
Sorry i'm a tard and dont know how to post pics properly. Thanks in advance for the advice:wavey:

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/402/img1121.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2544/img1123w.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7210/img1124qh.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3120/img1125bw.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9962/img1127d.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9481/img1128d.jpg
Just change the url tag to IMG
or click the yellow mountain picture.
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/402/img1121.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2544/img1123w.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7210/img1124qh.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3120/img1125bw.jpg

wrx04
10-16-2010, 16:46
Your pic looks like you did NOT crimp at all. You must crimp, always crimp, never not crimp. I know that sounds "Abrasive" but if you have read you reloading manual, it will explain the improtance of crimping properly. It's the only way to insure reliable ammo.
I would also NOT load to the Lyman 1.269"OAL. That is quite long & can be an issue in some guns. Since you do NOT have your gun to check OAL (the gage does NOT do this) then I would shorten them a bit, 1.255"-1.260", just a little wiggle room. I think you are getting waaaaay ahead of yourself, but you don't seem to be listening to everyones advice.:dunno: So how much & what powder did you put in therm?

I did crimp the rounds, however, it was probably not enough. I read and heard (on youtube) that you dont have to crimp 45acp very much, and i wanted to make sure i didn't over crimp it and result in over-pressure. I read this and wanted to err on the side of less crimp, but i will adjust that. How do i know if its TOO much?

I am listening to the advice, and will not shoot these two rounds until they are checked in the barrel of my gun. The reason i loaded them was basically to figure out how the machine works, and to get the dies in the correct positions (which apparently they weren't.) I will probably end up pulling these two rounds anyway. I made the rounds to Lyman's specs....i was told not to take personal advice on loads until i eased my way into it, but apparently the published data for OAL is too long. Didnt now that, but now i do.

I loaded these rounds with 5.8gr of unique....again, just like Lyman states as the minimum load.

I appreciate the advice everyone. I hate looking like a total dumb*** posting these mistakes, but i want to make sure i get this thing set up right.

wrx04
10-16-2010, 16:51
Something's definitely not right. The rounds should be case gauging in that Dillon case gauge.

A couple things to check. Do you have the sizing die low enough?

And as Fred said, they don't appear to have much of a crimp. First make sure the sizing die is set correctly and then tighten up that crimp until the rounds case gauge.

Also as Fred said, you're loading them too long. I bet you'll run into problems with them that long.

I load to 1.250".

I think the sizing die MAY be where i f'd up. I tightened the die as it said in the Dillon assembly manual.... until it BARELY touched the baseplate in the raised position. Is this correct?

I will also tighten the crimp and shorten the length. Thanks for the help, really appreciate it:wavey:

wrx04
10-16-2010, 16:59
As others have said, it looks like the flare is still there.

I bet you doing seating and crimping in the same step. This is harder to set up than doing it in two steps.

Review your steps on seting up the seating/crimp die. It looks like the OAL has some variance. Did you raise the die (instead of the seater) to get a longer OAL? It's a common newb mistake.

When you set up the die, you want to set the OAL first, then raise the seater and set the crimp. You can use the case gauge at this point, and keep adding crimp (within reason!) until the case seats in the case guage - assuming it's been fully resized). When the crimp is set, then raise the round, lock the die body down, then tighten down the seater plug till it makes contact with the round (that was previously set to proper OAL). Harder to explain, easier to demonstrate. There must be a YouTube on it.

I actually did the seating and crimp in two separate steps. I watched the "how to" video that came with my press, and i did do it the same way (the exact thing you explained). Pretty sure i MAY need to adjust the re-sizer first, make my OAL shorter, and apply a little more crimp.

Thanks man.

IndyGunFreak
10-16-2010, 17:00
I think the sizing die MAY be where i f'd up. I tightened the die as it said in the Dillon assembly manual.... until it BARELY touched the baseplate in the raised position. Is this correct?

I will also tighten the crimp and shorten the length. Thanks for the help, really appreciate it:wavey:

The easy way to see if the sizing die is the issue...

Size a case like you normally would. remove it from the press, and drop it in your case gauge(w/o a bullet of course).. if the problem is resizing, you'll know because you'll still have the problem w/o a bullet.

That will help you narrow it down between a sizing issue, and an OAL/Crimp issue..

IGF

wrx04
10-16-2010, 17:00
Thanks for the info, shotgunred.

wrx04
10-16-2010, 17:01
The easy way to see if the sizing die is the issue...

Size a case like you normally would. remove it from the press, and drop it in your case gauge(w/o a bullet of course).. if the problem is resizing, you'll know because you'll still have the problem w/o a bullet.

That will help you narrow it down between a sizing issue, and an OAL/Crimp issue..

IGF

Perfect, that helps a lot. Makes sense. Thanks.

wrx04
10-16-2010, 17:03
The easy way to see if the sizing die is the issue...

Size a case like you normally would. remove it from the press, and drop it in your case gauge(w/o a bullet of course).. if the problem is resizing, you'll know because you'll still have the problem w/o a bullet.

That will help you narrow it down between a sizing issue, and an OAL/Crimp issue..

IGF

IGF, just did it. The case drops in perfectly. Guess everyone is right about the crimping.....great advice.

IndyGunFreak
10-16-2010, 17:09
IGF, just did it. The case drops in perfectly. Guess everyone is right about the crimping.....great advice.

Thank C4W.. I'd actually never even thought of testing like that, till I saw him suggest it a few weeks ago...

I never really had a problem like that, but you're right.. it makes perfect sense to narrow down the problem.

Glad you got it narrowed down

wrx04
10-16-2010, 17:32
Got it! i readjusted to OAL to 2.49" (WWB is 2.47" for the record) and tightened the crimp VERY small amounts at a time. The end result is the round drops right in the case gauge. Now i wait for my pistol, and make sure they cycle through fine.

Thank you everyone for the pointers. Now i get to watch the badgers whoop OSU's ***!:drink:

fredj338
10-17-2010, 01:22
I did crimp the rounds, however, it was probably not enough. I read and heard (on youtube) that you dont have to crimp 45acp very much, and i wanted to make sure i didn't over crimp it and result in over-pressure. I read this and wanted to err on the side of less crimp, but i will adjust that. How do i know if its TOO much?
I am listening to the advice, and will not shoot these two rounds until they are checked in the barrel of my gun. The reason i loaded them was basically to figure out how the machine works, and to get the dies in the correct positions (which apparently they weren't.) I will probably end up pulling these two rounds anyway. I made the rounds to Lyman's specs....i was told not to take personal advice on loads until i eased my way into it, but apparently the published data for OAL is too long. Didnt now that, but now i do.

I loaded these rounds with 5.8gr of unique....again, just like Lyman states as the minimum load.

I appreciate the advice everyone. I hate looking like a total dumb*** posting these mistakes, but i want to make sure i get this thing set up right.
If you see a visable crimp, it's likely too much. It's not possible to taper crimp enought to rasie pressures significantly. The bullet pretty much stops the taper crimp form going very far. The 5.8gr of Unique w/ a 230grFMJ is a necessarily a starting load but pretty low pressure.
IMO, your sizing die is sset up correctly. I screw the die down until it touches, then back it offso a bus card will fit underneath, lock it off & never touch it again. Gos slow, you'll get there.:supergrin:

dudel
10-17-2010, 04:54
I did crimp the rounds, however, it was probably not enough. I read and heard (on youtube) that you dont have to crimp 45acp very much, and i wanted to make sure i didn't over crimp it and result in over-pressure. I read this and wanted to err on the side of less crimp, but i will adjust that. How do i know if its TOO much?

I am listening to the advice, and will not shoot these two rounds until they are checked in the barrel of my gun. The reason i loaded them was basically to figure out how the machine works, and to get the dies in the correct positions (which apparently they weren't.) I will probably end up pulling these two rounds anyway. I made the rounds to Lyman's specs....i was told not to take personal advice on loads until i eased my way into it, but apparently the published data for OAL is too long. Didnt now that, but now i do.

I loaded these rounds with 5.8gr of unique....again, just like Lyman states as the minimum load.

I appreciate the advice everyone. I hate looking like a total dumb*** posting these mistakes, but i want to make sure i get this thing set up right.

That's a good, safe, smart way to approach it. No problems there.

Much better than others who've tried the jackwagon approach, threw all the parts together, screwed up and blamed their equipment.

You're on the right path, closing in on a good result.

Once I get things set up, I generally make dummy rounds. I use a spent primer seated upside down and no powder. Set the oal and crimp, then set that round aside in the die box should I ever have to set up for that projectile profile again. It gets me into the ballpark pretty quickly when I change projectiles. You could mark the round as well; but the reversed primer is a pretty good indication not to shoot it:supergrin: