Forward cocking serrations [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Benello
10-19-2010, 17:31
I posted this on Sigforum and now I want to see what Glocktalkers think about it. Do you prefer FCS on your 1911? Or do you hate them? Or are you indifferent? Why?

polizei1
10-19-2010, 17:32
No! No FCS for me...they are ugly, but I don't even have a 1911, so what do I know? :rofl:

bac1023
10-19-2010, 17:40
I prefer without. :)


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1724s.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/021.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1689.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/004-8.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1694.jpg

HAIL CAESAR
10-19-2010, 17:45
With..without...does make 2 bits of difference to me.

Cerebrus
10-19-2010, 17:48
I have one with and one without..If I were to order a semi custom, I would order it without.. would it stop me from buying one just because it has em? no.. I guess I don't really like em.. but they don't bother me enough that I would pass on a 1911 that I like that had em.. is that ambivalent enough for ya? :headscratch:

Quack
10-19-2010, 17:50
doen't matter to me.

i do find myself using the FCS to check the chamber while i'm at the range though.

bac1023
10-19-2010, 17:50
With..without...does make 2 bits of difference to me.

I actually own as many with as without.

I prefer without, but its not a real big deal to me.

glock2740
10-19-2010, 17:55
Don't like the way they look and have never used them.

Hokie1911
10-19-2010, 17:57
I prefer without.

rsxr22
10-19-2010, 17:59
I like the way they look and prefer them on my 1911's, but it isnt a deal breaker if the gun doesnt have them. However, if/when i do design my semi-custom, it will most certainly have them. On top of liking the way they look, i also do press checks and it makes it much easier

CA_DUDE
10-19-2010, 18:03
I used to think of them as an abomination. Just don't care anymore. I've had people try and tell me they're necessary on a modern handgun, not seeing it myself. Some are done tastefully, others look like a semi-auto cheese grater. My two Colts didn't have them. My Custom II has them and I actually kind of like it with them.

soflasmg
10-19-2010, 18:08
Gun looks better without.

I have both and prefer them however and am not as concerned with looks as with function.

Makes checking chamber easier.

Baba Louie
10-19-2010, 18:13
While they aren't my cup o tea, I really like the way they look on the old JMB designed 1902 Military model. Either Colt or JMB moved them to the back of the slide for the 1905 Military and there they've remained until as of late.

They might look better proportionally with a longer barrel and if they were not slanted ala the 02, but who knows? Or cares? Maybe the full length frame helps as well visually... I dunno. What do you think? (see linked photo from Lisker's site)

http://coltautos.com/1902m.htm

They have their place in history and what comes around goes around... I guess.

ron59
10-19-2010, 18:13
I don't have a 1911, YET.

But my vote is:
Like the way they look *without*, but they might be useful to have. At least, if they don't make the gun look like crap. If I saw a gun they looked BAD on, it might make me not buy it. But if they blended in okay... it probably wouldn't matter to me.

GJ1981
10-19-2010, 18:18
I used to not like them much, but they don't bother me anymore.

Jason D
10-19-2010, 18:25
Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate them.

38 Super Fan
10-19-2010, 18:27
It depends on the gun, but by and large, I like them.

Texas Bulldog
10-19-2010, 18:38
99% of the time, NO... i HATE front cocking serrations... some guns they look good on though, especially race style guns where they get creative with them.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2chrxw6.jpg

Texas Bulldog
10-19-2010, 18:39
and get rid of 75% of Rollmarks out there too... some of them just kill the gun and are enough reason for me to not buy it.

JOe

bac1023
10-19-2010, 18:42
That's a beautiful 1911, but I can't do the rail.

asiparks
10-19-2010, 18:42
so......can someone gently explain how serrations at the muzzle end make chamber checking easier than the ones I'm using at the back ? (even on my 1911's that have them front and back)

Most of mine don't have them, but the ones that do don't hurt my feeling too much

http://homepage.mac.com/asiparks/.Pictures/45%27s/IMG_1308.jpg

Hokie1911
10-19-2010, 18:46
Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate them.

Not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate? :dunno:

bac1023
10-19-2010, 18:46
Not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate? :dunno:

:rofl::rofl:

glock2740
10-19-2010, 18:56
99% of the time, NO... i HATE front cocking serrations... some guns they look good on though, especially race style guns where they get creative with them.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2chrxw6.jpg
What are you? A professional photographer? That's a great picture. :thumbsup:

Jason D
10-19-2010, 18:57
I absolutely hate front cocking serrations.
I am also finding myself despising beaver-tails and commander hammers.

glock2740
10-19-2010, 18:58
Not sure what you mean. Can you elaborate? :dunno:
Yeah. I'm a little confused on his opinion myself. :rofl:

ambluemax
10-19-2010, 19:01
I like the looks without, but love the function...6 one way and half a dozen the other. Doesn't really hit my radar when purchasing, but I notice when I'm handling guns that don't have them.

I use them all the time being left handed. Makes it real easy to clear the chamber- pops the round right into the palm of my hand so I don't drop it in the dirt/mud/concrete/loose it. Also, when I have to show clear to an SO my hand and body make it hard for them to see unless I use the front ones.

Consider them an ambi feature if you must I guess

Cobra64
10-19-2010, 19:07
I really like the way they look on the old JMB designed 1902 Military model. Either Colt or JMB moved them to the back of the slide for the 1905 Military and there they've remained until as of late.


Hmmm.... do you have pics of that model with forward cocking serrations?

CA_DUDE
10-19-2010, 19:24
Hmmm.... do you have pics of that model with forward cocking serrations?

There's a link on post #13

wrx04
10-19-2010, 19:26
No FCS with naked slide:cool:

knedrgr
10-19-2010, 19:34
It doesn't matter to me. IMO, FCS might look good on a naked slide.

FCS needs love too...

Benello
10-19-2010, 19:42
The gun in question for me is a Thunder Ranch Special and really I like it with them. They are tastefully done I think, but on some other manufacturers they don't appeal to me as much.

bac1023
10-19-2010, 19:50
so......can someone gently explain how serrations at the muzzle end make chamber checking easier than the ones I'm using at the back ? (even on my 1911's that have them front and back)

Most of mine don't have them, but the ones that do don't hurt my feeling too much

http://homepage.mac.com/asiparks/.Pictures/45%27s/IMG_1308.jpg


Very cool, another member with a Valtro. :cool:

You're right, that is certainly a 1911 that looks great with FCS.



http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/020-1.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/009-8.jpg

Quack
10-19-2010, 19:56
so......can someone gently explain how serrations at the muzzle end make chamber checking easier than the ones I'm using at the back ? (even on my 1911's that have them front and back)


the way i do it is while gripping the gun with my strong hand, use the support hand to grab the FCS from under the slide, grasp with the thumb and index finger, and pull back just a little bit to see if a round is chambered.

Blaster
10-19-2010, 19:59
Naked slide and no FCS for me. Now if someone wanted to give me a Springfield Professional, lets just say I wouldn't turn it down.

bac1023
10-19-2010, 20:00
Naked slide and no FCS for me.

:)

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/010-6.jpg

JK-linux
10-19-2010, 20:00
I absolutely hate front cocking serrations.
I am also finding myself despising beaver-tails and commander hammers.

Same here really, less is more for me. I have nothing against people doing what they like to their own pistol, but I won't buy one with any of those things. The only things I ever need to change if the pistol doesn't come stock with them are:
-Long trigger
-Standard GI safety if it came with extended/ambi safety
-Flat mainspring housing
-Decent sights, though the GI sights work pretty well with practice

PhoneCop
10-19-2010, 20:03
I posted this on Sigforum and now I want to see what Glocktalkers think about it. Do you prefer FCS on your 1911? Or do you hate them? Or are you indifferent? Why?

I want them. Then again, I frequently am told to, "Unload and show clear." Whereby I then grasp my slide from underneath on the front cocking serations and push the slide rearward, ejecting a shell, and showing a clear chamber to the range officer. It works well.

eta: Like Quack, above.

samuse
10-19-2010, 20:39
the way i do it is while gripping the gun with my strong hand, use the support hand to grab the FCS from under the slide, grasp with the thumb and index finger, and pull back just a little bit to see if a round is chambered.


We have a winner, ^this is how front cocking serrations are supposed to be used. Pretty handy if you have a FLGR.

It's bad etiquette these days to hook your thumb in the trigger guard and pinch a press check (it only works with a G.I. guiderod).

BOGE
10-19-2010, 21:00
If you need FCS you:

1. need Wheaties. That is what the REAR serrations are for.

2. have been IMPROPERLY taught.

BFN
10-19-2010, 21:05
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab156/nysoto/baerr.jpg

Prefer no FCS

remat
10-19-2010, 21:14
I think that FCS are really only needed for pistols which have an optic mounted and the rear serrations are blocked.

Saying that I can live with them, but prefer not.

Ol' Dirty
10-19-2010, 21:18
When I first got into 1911s I had to have the fcs but now it's all about the classic lines. The rear serrations are just fine.

The_Drizzle
10-19-2010, 21:33
No a big fan of FCS. But i don't really mind if they are vertical and fine serations to match the classic vertical serrations on the original 1911 and 1911A1s.

ambluemax
10-19-2010, 22:04
If you need FCS you:

1. need Wheaties. That is what the REAR serrations are for.

2. have been IMPROPERLY taught.

They aren't "needed"...but they are darn convienient. Especially for those of us who have to "unload and show clear" often.

The only improper way would be a way that put your hand infront of the business end. Short of finger in front of the muzzle action, how is there an improper way to manipulate the slide?

bluelineman
10-19-2010, 22:08
I'm not crazy about them. Given the choice, without. Not a huge deal breaker though.

Quack
10-19-2010, 22:08
They aren't "needed"...but they are darn convienient. Especially for those of us who have to "unload and show clear" often.

The only improper way would be a way that put your hand infront of the business end. Short of finger in front of the muzzle action, how is there an improper way to manipulate the slide?


if it's good enough for Steven Seagal...:whistling:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh284/CTone03/Guns%20in%20movies/Under%20Siege%202/Colt1911.jpg

asiparks
10-19-2010, 22:25
the way i do it is while gripping the gun with my strong hand, use the support hand to grab the FCS from under the slide, grasp with the thumb and index finger, and pull back just a little bit to see if a round is chambered.

I understand the methodology with the FCS, I was more wondering if there was a specific advantage to using the FCS rather than the rear. I can see doing it with a racegun/red dot setup, but on a regular 5" ? Am i missing something or is it a "just what works for you" kinda thing ?
I roll my weak hand over my strong thumb, grip the rear of the slide and rear sight, crack the slide and peek.

ArmoryDoc
10-19-2010, 23:50
Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate, Hate them.

Um, YES. So do I. :wavey:

okie
10-20-2010, 00:56
I think thye look cleaner without the forward cocking serrations:supergrin:

irontexan27
10-20-2010, 00:58
I also do NOT like FCS, as far as I am concerned they are useless and on a 1911 down right ugly. When in doubt, clean never goes out of style.

Out of curiosity, what were the results like over on the Sig Forums?

MD357
10-20-2010, 01:02
I want them. Then again, I frequently am told to, "Unload and show clear." Whereby I then grasp my slide from underneath on the front cocking serations and push the slide rearward, ejecting a shell, and showing a clear chamber to the range officer. It works well.

eta: Like Quack, above.


Someone check the temp in hell.... but I agree with Phonecop.


Do any of you people here actually shoot your 1911s in competition, schools, classes etc? If so, please name your prefered method of checks. Just curious.

If you need FCS you:

1. need Wheaties. That is what the REAR serrations are for.

2. have been IMPROPERLY taught.

Actually, quite the contrary, see Quack's description. Many that know more about fighting with 1911s than your or I teach this method.

bac1023
10-20-2010, 01:54
Someone check the temp in hell.... but I agree with Phonecop.




:rofl:

norm357
10-20-2010, 03:56
I posted this on Sigforum and now I want to see what Glocktalkers think about it. Do you prefer FCS on your 1911? Or do you hate them? Or are you indifferent? Why?

They are ghey.

.45Super-Man
10-20-2010, 04:18
On an "enhanced" 1911 with a FLGR, then yes I do prefer them since the FLGR prevents a conventional "press check".

BuckyP
10-20-2010, 04:22
As others have mentioned, they are very beneficial on a competition gun. In addition to the unload and show clear, I find them beneficial in an unloaded start. My preferred method (on a non scoped gun of course) is to rack the slide over the top using the front cocking serrations. That way once the gun is loaded, you are closer to gripping the gun and shooting.

As for scoped guns, I have two guns with Hiett Scope mounts, so the only way to charge the gun is from the underneath using the front cocking serrations.

All that being said, I prefer no front cocking serrations on a CCW piece.

G21FAN
10-20-2010, 05:58
If you need FCS you:

1. need Wheaties. That is what the REAR serrations are for.

2. have been IMPROPERLY taught.

This. I dont want my hand near the muzzle end of a potientialy loaded pistol while checking it. Slingshot methold is proper and a lot safer.

Metal frame pistol should not have rails, plastic ones should.

GJ1981
10-20-2010, 06:28
Metal frame pistol should not have rails, plastic ones should.

Really?

What about those people who prefer steel pistols and want a light attached for HD? They should compromise because it "doesn't look good?"


I can't help but chuckle, but it's personal preference I guess. Last I checked, some people do use their pistols outside photo taking/range use.

DaverZ
10-20-2010, 07:29
Maybe I'm a little bit too old school(dunno) ,my older brother and I have had these types of discussions and still do.He constantly talks about action jobs on pistols,certain types of grips and so on.ME i like a pistol just as it comes from the factory as long as it's reliable and the trigger pull does'nt need a circus strong man to pull it.My brother is more of a book knowledge kinda guy on these matters and I'm more of a hands on kinda guy,I do believe I have more experiance but that's neither here nor there,fcs or no fcs does'nt really matter to me.I've shot many different handguns and just adjust to that firearm which kinda comes naturally.I do however prefer blued (black ) finishes just in case I am in a self defense situation where a glint off of a shiney surface would give my position away but that's just me.

rsxr22
10-20-2010, 08:17
MD357,
I feel exactly the same. None of my 1911's just sit and look pretty, so i find the FCS to be very useful. If i bought a BBQ 1911 though i wouldnt mind if it didnt have them

G21FAN
10-20-2010, 09:06
Really?

What about those people who prefer steel pistols and want a light attached for HD? They should compromise because it "doesn't look good?"


I can't help but chuckle, but it's personal preference I guess. Last I checked, some people do use their pistols outside photo taking/range use.

The second line WAS my opinion and preference, not a fact.

GJ1981
10-20-2010, 09:14
The second line WAS my opinion and preference, not a fact.

:cool:

Kinny
10-20-2010, 09:16
I don't dislike them. I just don't care for them.

MD357
10-20-2010, 09:47
This. I dont want my hand near the muzzle end of a potientialy loaded pistol while checking it.


Well technically, your finger should be off the trigger and it should be pointed in a safe direction.


Metal frame pistol should not have rails, plastic ones should.

Right, metal framed guns are all there to be looked at and should all be range toys.

G21FAN
10-20-2010, 09:52
Well technically, your finger should be off the trigger and it should be pointed in a safe direction.





Right, metal framed guns are all there to be looked at and should all be range toys.

And hands away from muzzle. Anything can and has happened.


My 1911 has been rode hard and has the scars to prove it. It is my opinion on the looks of medal frame pistols have cleaner lines without a rail while plastic pistols dont look as bad.

I carry my Colt far more than my Glock.

MD357
10-20-2010, 10:03
And hands away from muzzle. Anything can and has happened.



If shooting your hand is a concern using the method described earlier then yes you shouldn't try it. It's a simple and safe method once practiced.

My 1911 has been rode hard and has the scars to prove it. It is my opinion on the looks of medal frame pistols have cleaner lines without a rail while plastic pistols dont look as bad.

I carry my Colt far more than my Glock.

Well, I'm less concerned with the looks or "lines" of my HD firearm as it has function in protecting me and my family.

G21FAN
10-20-2010, 10:10
If shooting your hand is a concern using the method described earlier then yes you shouldn't try it. It's a simple and safe method once practiced.



Well, I'm less concerned with the looks or "lines" of my HD firearm as it has function in protecting me and my family.

Shooting my hand is not my concern as I keep them away from the muzzle.


My Colt has never choked in the years or unknown amount of rounds fired, both factory and handload. So I trust it completly and I don't keep my hands near the muzzle.

Not trying to change your mind, just stating whay that fad is not for me.

deadite
10-20-2010, 12:39
On an "enhanced" 1911 with a FLGR, then yes I do prefer them since the FLGR prevents a conventional "press check".

+1

Ideally, I like a clean looking, naked slide, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

deadite

deadite
10-20-2010, 12:42
I do however prefer blued (black ) finishes just in case I am in a self defense situation where a glint off of a shiney surface would give my position away but that's just me.

Would you indeed be in a self-defense situation if you're worrying about giving away your position? ;)

I can see that opinion if you were in a war or something.

deadite

Janno05
10-20-2010, 12:52
My only 1911 (Kimber custom II) has them and they don't bother me. If I was going to get a semi-custom it would be without them though. That No-Name or a TRS without FCS is just sexy.

MD357
10-20-2010, 13:19
Shooting my hand is not my concern as I keep them away from the muzzle.

.

That's not what you said. You said you don't want your hands near the muzzle and that the "slingshot" is safer. You're backpeddling here. Look, if you don't like it, great, but one must realize that unless you cover your hand and have your finger on the trigger at the same time, your danger factor is relatively low. In which if that's the case, someone would have much larger problems with safety anyways.

My Colt has never choked in the years or unknown amount of rounds fired, both factory and handload. So I trust it completly and I don't keep my hands near the muzzle.



I really don't think you're understanding the process or why it's done. Reliability isn't a factor here.

samuse
10-20-2010, 17:24
I understand the methodology with the FCS, I was more wondering if there was a specific advantage to using the FCS rather than the rear. I can see doing it with a racegun/red dot setup, but on a regular 5" ? Am i missing something or is it a "just what works for you" kinda thing ?
I roll my weak hand over my strong thumb, grip the rear of the slide and rear sight, crack the slide and peek.


I think it's easier to show the SO that the gun is clear by press checking from the front with your hand under the gun. It's just easier to tip the muzzle back so he can look down through the ejection port into the magwell. And there's no hands on top of the gun, allowing for a better view.

When I'm running a 1911 without front serrations, I just press check with the spring plug or grab the slide where the serrations would be if I had 'em. Just because the gun doesn't have front serrations doesn't mean you can't pull the slide back from the front.

HAIL CAESAR
10-20-2010, 18:38
Here is what I have seen.

"I hate them, they make the gun look bad."

"I like them, they are useful when I actually use my gun."

The above can be injected to the rail debate also.

If you are using a gun and need a rail and/or FCS......well have at it! Don't tell me it's ugly compared to your range and safe queens. Some people actually use their guns.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/_JBP1541.jpg

deadite
10-20-2010, 18:46
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/_JBP1541.jpg

I honestly think those fine-lined front cocking serrations are attractive. Nice Baer!

deadite

BuckyP
10-20-2010, 20:00
I honestly think those fine-lined front cocking serrations are attractive. Nice Baer!

deadite

I agree. I think they do look better, front and back. The angle of them is nice as well.

Texas Bulldog
10-20-2010, 20:29
What are you? A professional photographer? That's a great picture. :thumbsup:
Thanks!

Just a hobbyist :wavey: Im actually better with the guns than i am with the Camera :whistling: hehehehe

Texas Bulldog
10-20-2010, 20:31
I honestly think those fine-lined front cocking serrations are attractive. Nice Baer!

deadite

Agreed. The very fine ones like that pic look good on most 1911's IMO. the more coarse ones though throw me off.

It won't stop me from buying one with them but i would prefer no FCS :cool:

SouthpawShootr
10-20-2010, 20:40
Prefer FCS? No. They tend to spoil otherwise clean lines, IMO. If I otherwise like the gun, I'll tolerate them. Some pistols, it seems to me, actually look pretty good with them.

Benello
10-20-2010, 22:56
Wow! 77 responses! You guys post quick! More people over here seem to either tolerate them or even like them. The more I think about it and the more pics I see, I really kind of prefer them. And if I ever shoot single stack in competetion then I'll prolly use the FCS. Thanks for all the opninions guys!

GVFlyer
10-21-2010, 05:03
I'm ambivalent about front cocking serrations - I have 1911s with both - and I like them equally.

DaverZ
10-21-2010, 06:49
I can forsee some situations that stealth is called for,at night covering an intruder from cover,say I'm in bed and someone breaks into my home,chances are I may use my bed as cover.I may or may not have the option to shoot,if a command to leave has him fleeing and not having to fire on him I'm all for that<I just don'nt want him knowing my exact location just in case he decides to fire with a weapon of his own.Having grown up in a tough side of town I've seen many situations.I'm not a young wet behind the ears newbie,I'm 54 and have been shooting since I was 6.

DaverZ
10-21-2010, 06:54
I'm not an over the top macho kinda guy but I did grow up on a tough side of town and consider myself somewhat streetwise.In saying that,that's why i prefer a blued finish.Agree or not,that's how I see it.

deadite
10-21-2010, 07:47
I can forsee some situations that stealth is called for,at night covering an intruder from cover,say I'm in bed and someone breaks into my home,chances are I may use my bed as cover.I may or may not have the option to shoot,if a command to leave has him fleeing and not having to fire on him I'm all for that<I just don'nt want him knowing my exact location just in case he decides to fire with a weapon of his own.Having grown up in a tough side of town I've seen many situations.I'm not a young wet behind the ears newbie,I'm 54 and have been shooting since I was 6.

I'm not an over the top macho kinda guy but I did grow up on a tough side of town and consider myself somewhat streetwise.In saying that,that's why i prefer a blued finish.Agree or not,that's how I see it.

I was just messin' with you. :) I agree on your points.

deadite

DaverZ
10-21-2010, 08:20
cool, i hear ya

ambluemax
10-21-2010, 08:49
Here is what I have seen.

"I hate them, they make the gun look bad."

"I like them, they are useful when I actually use my gun."

The above can be injected to the rail debate also.

If you are using a gun and need a rail and/or FCS......well have at it! Don't tell me it's ugly compared to your range and safe queens. Some people actually use their guns.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/_JBP1541.jpg

Well said.

Also, just because I use the FCS, doesn't mean I don't use the RCS just as much. There's more than one way to rack a slide...

G21FAN
10-21-2010, 09:00
That's not what you said. You said you don't want your hands near the muzzle and that the "slingshot" is safer. You're backpeddling here. Look, if you don't like it, great, but one must realize that unless you cover your hand and have your finger on the trigger at the same time, your danger factor is relatively low. In which if that's the case, someone would have much larger problems with safety anyways.



I really don't think you're understanding the process or why it's done. Reliability isn't a factor here.

No, placing you hands near the muzzle is more dangerous than not placing hands near the muzzle. I do understand the process and that why I choose not to do an unsafe act. The old "pinch check" I think it was called, is dangerous even more so.

Just because you like the fad doesnt make it safer, better, or worse than other methods. But it is still safer to keep hand away from the muzzle of a possibly loaded firearm.

.45Super-Man
10-21-2010, 09:08
No, placing you hands near the muzzle is more dangerous than not placing hands near the muzzle. I do understand the process and that why I choose not to do an unsafe act. The old "pinch check" I think it was called, is dangerous even more so.

Just because you like the fad doesnt make it safer, better, or worse than other methods. But it is still safer to keep hand away from the muzzle of a possibly loaded firearm.

It's probably even safer not to handle firearms in the first place, wouldnt you say?? The press check is hardly a fad.

G21FAN
10-21-2010, 09:15
It's probably even safer not to handle firearms in the first place, wouldnt you say?? The press check is hardly a fad.

So why make it even more so by placing the hand closer the muzzle than you have to?

It is a fad just like the old pinch check was. Does it work? For its intended purpose, yes. But before long somebody else will come along with something different.

MD357
10-21-2010, 10:07
No, placing you hands near the muzzle is more dangerous than not placing hands near the muzzle. I do understand the process and that why I choose not to do an unsafe act. The old "pinch check" I think it was called, is dangerous even more so.

Just because you like the fad doesnt make it safer, better, or worse than other methods. But it is still safer to keep hand away from the muzzle of a possibly loaded firearm.

Ok so now you're back to saying it's too dangerous for YOU. That's great, some people should take precautions for their level of experience. Like I said, if someone is halfway safe with firearms and doesn't cover their hand AND keeps their finger off the trigger it's not a problem. In which if someone actually understand the process we are talking about they'll understand it's not adding any danger SHOULD they practice the basics.

Anyone that considers it a fad hasn't recieved any extra training from an acredited instructor or engaged in any competition.

G21FAN
10-21-2010, 10:27
Ok so now you're back to saying it's too dangerous for YOU. That's great, some people should take precautions for their level of experience. Like I said, if someone is halfway safe with firearms and doesn't cover their hand AND keeps their finger off the trigger it's not a problem. In which if someone actually understand the process we are talking about they'll understand it's not adding any danger SHOULD they practice the basics.

Anyone that considers it a fad hasn't recieved any extra training from an acredited instructor or engaged in any competition.

No, it is unsafe period to get hands closer to the muzzle than necessary, not just for me, anybody. Hence I dont use the method.

You are playing the word twist.

Unsafe period to have hand close to muzzle unnecessarily period. No matter who or how it is done.

That is why I dont use it.

And yes I have had accredited training from APOSTC, FLETC, and had LFI visit us at the training range.

And at one time they taught the pinch check too and now that is out of popularity.

bac1023
10-21-2010, 10:33
:popcorn:

G21FAN
10-21-2010, 10:39
It is dangerous to get close to the muzzle of an uncomfirmed firearm In an unessisary manner and that is the reason I choose not to.

FCS dislike is just my opinion as far as looks are concerned, I prefer them without it,

I stated the reason it is dangerous and it is up to individuals if they want to use it.

speedseeker
10-21-2010, 10:46
I want them on a competition gun. I want them on a Self Defense gun. I do not want them on a 1911 that I own for intrinsic value. Any gun I own, other than a 1911, for intrinsic values - I dont care. Now, back to putting that grip tape on the front of my IDPA 34 slide!

MD357
10-21-2010, 11:02
It is dangerous to get close to the muzzle of an uncomfirmed firearm In an unessisary manner and that is the reason I choose not to.

FCS dislike is just my opinion as far as looks are concerned, I prefer them without it,

I stated the reason it is dangerous and it is up to individuals if they want to use it.


It is dangerous to UNTRAINED individuals, as are several aspects of shooting.

IN the check Quack described your hand or fingers are well behind the muzzle, so I'm not thinking you understand what I'm refering to here. Howeve,r if this is STILL too dangerous for you then I'll have to leave you with your opinion and level of experience and training. Several individuals that know more about real world shooting than you or I, practice this method. In fact I'll invite you to provide anything concrete showing it's level of danger.

speedseeker
10-21-2010, 11:06
I understand the methodology with the FCS, I was more wondering if there was a specific advantage to using the FCS rather than the rear. I can see doing it with a racegun/red dot setup, but on a regular 5" ? Am i missing something or is it a "just what works for you" kinda thing ?
I roll my weak hand over my strong thumb, grip the rear of the slide and rear sight, crack the slide and peek.

The only thing I can think of is that when using FCS to press check, your strong hand elbow can remain more bent so you can position the chamber in a place where the operator can gain a better view into the chamber. Using the rear serrations requires the operator to extend the strong hand out when using the slingshot method. You can still see using the slingshot method to press check - just not as well. When using an overhand approach your foream blocks view of the chamber - simply doesnt work. Therefore, the front serration press gives best visibility. Of course, the risk of this is that you move your weak hand closer to the muzzle.

My method: assuming right hand strong side grip, rotate the gun on its side so teh grip is pointing to the strong side, bring my weak hand up from the rear of the slide to the front and grip the front serrations between my thumb and the flesh of my finger just below the top knuckle of my hand. The most important thing is to make sure I approach the front of the slide carefully from the rear. In fact, this is a mental index for me. "Press check? OK, approach rear of slide, move along the slide, grip front serrations, check chamber. All good? check!"

I don't know...i can see the safety concern...others could also argue the better view into the chamber is more safe as well. Either way, operators preference I guess.

BuckyP
10-21-2010, 11:41
I understand the methodology with the FCS, I was more wondering if there was a specific advantage to using the FCS rather than the rear. I can see doing it with a racegun/red dot setup, but on a regular 5" ?

It's typically easier to show the empty chamber when grabbing underneath as you can bring the gun to eye level for the RO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7ML1bPi6g

Gregg702
10-21-2010, 11:51
I like FCS, since I pull back the slide from the front. I suspect I am in the minority.

bac1023
10-21-2010, 12:05
I like FCS, since I pull back the slide from the front. I suspect I am in the minority.

That's funny, we were just discussing that. :whistling:

GVFlyer
10-21-2010, 12:26
...

And yes I have had accredited training from APOSTC, FLETC, and had LFI visit us at the training range.

...

You've been to Brunswick? I have a friend on staff there, it's a good school in a great location.

ambluemax
10-21-2010, 12:46
No, it is unsafe period to get hands closer to the muzzle than necessary, not just for me, anybody. Hence I dont use the method.



I'm sorry, danger does not increase exponentially as you get closer to the muzzle. You hand is either in front of the muzzle or its not. Your fingers are either in the bullets way or they aren't. Bullets are dangerous from the muzzle forward. That is not a sliding scale. You can put a period on that.

If sloppily done, sure its dangerous...but then again anything done sloppily with a gun is dangerous

Quack
10-21-2010, 13:40
so if i'm shooting a 3" 1911, my support thumb and trigger finger (indexed on the side of the frame) are about the same distance from the muzzle as when i grab the FCS, does that mean it's unsafe?

MD357
10-21-2010, 14:28
so if i'm shooting a 3" 1911, my support thumb and trigger finger (indexed on the side of the frame) are about the same distance from the muzzle as when i grab the FCS, does that mean it's unsafe?

You'll shoot your eye out kid.

G21FAN
10-21-2010, 14:33
so if i'm shooting a 3" 1911, my support thumb and trigger finger (indexed on the side of the frame) are about the same distance from the muzzle as when i grab the FCS, does that mean it's unsafe?

LOL

Not unless you have 6 inch Thumbs!!!

bac1023
10-21-2010, 14:36
You'll shoot your eye out kid.

:rofl:

MD357
10-21-2010, 14:42
LOL

Not unless you have 6 inch Thumbs!!!

He's got a good point actually. When gripping my EMP my thumbs are closer to the muzzle than when I do a check with a full size 1911.

Nestor
10-21-2010, 14:56
Doesn't really matter to my, but my preference is traditional serration without the front one.

Quack
10-21-2010, 15:00
He's got a good point actually. When gripping my EMP my thumbs are closer to the muzzle than when I do a check with a full size 1911.

exactly.

HAIL CAESAR
10-21-2010, 15:20
I'm sorry, danger does not increase exponentially as you get closer to the muzzle. You hand is either in front of the muzzle or its not. Your fingers are either in the bullets way or they aren't. Bullets are dangerous from the muzzle forward. That is not a sliding scale. You can put a period on that.

If sloppily done, sure its dangerous...but then again anything done sloppily with a gun is dangerous

Thank goodness you made that point. Everybody says it's "dangerous" (Ohhh, scary) to have your hands even near the muzzle.:rofl:

As Quack said, that makes a 3 inch REALLY dangerous.:rofl:

Also my asterisks is always in intimate danger always as the gun is always pointed towards my posterior. :tongueout:

Quack
10-21-2010, 15:24
if you want dangerous, then a LCP is the gun.

nolt
10-21-2010, 16:21
i like the look and holster-friendliness of a smooth slide better...

but i dont get my panties bunched up if a gun has them.

HAIL CAESAR
10-21-2010, 17:18
if you want dangerous, then a LCP is the gun.

I can't believe that inherently dangerous gun hasn't been banned yet.:upeyes:

bac1023
10-21-2010, 17:46
if you want dangerous, then a LCP is the gun.

Yeah, I carry a P3AT quite a bit as a BUG. :)

GVFlyer
10-21-2010, 17:52
You'll shoot your eye out kid.

:rofl:Too Funny :rofl:

Quack
10-21-2010, 17:57
Yeah, I carry a P3AT quite a bit as a BUG. :)

you should get a 1911 or something :rofl:

bac1023
10-21-2010, 18:16
you should get a 1911 or something :rofl:

:animlol:

I need to, as the P3AT is dangerous. :)

G21FAN
10-21-2010, 19:41
He's got a good point actually. When gripping my EMP my thumbs are closer to the muzzle than when I do a check with a full size 1911.

I didn't think about that. Good point.

remat
10-23-2010, 13:58
Shooting my hand is not my concern as I keep them away from the muzzle.


This deserves to be in a signature line somewhere! :)

G21FAN
10-23-2010, 14:47
This deserves to be in a signature line somewhere! :)

Indeed you sir may use this at your pleasure!

CAcop
10-23-2010, 16:40
Personally I do not like them. One becuase the look stupid and two because it might actually encourage people to put their fingers near the muzzle of a loaded gun needlessly. The only thing more retarded than checking the chamber with your fingers near the muzzle of a gun with FCS is doing it on a gun without FCS. Like the people who do it with Glocks or Sigs. Another cool thing to watch is the chamber checks from the front that are parallel to the ground and not on a square rang. As in out on the street before a warrant service lasering coworkers and people sleeping in their beds.

HAIL CAESAR
10-23-2010, 16:53
Oh.....NO!!!!!!!!!!
:uglylol:

Fingers near the muzzle!!!!!! Oh, the humanity! !!!!

My tookus has barely escaped imminent danger for decades!:rofl:

HAIL CAESAR
10-23-2010, 16:56
I suggest an wearing a welding helmet and a airsoft gun. Preferably with some welding gloves and Carhart coveralls.

knedrgr
10-23-2010, 17:07
I love this. I think by keeping your booger picker out of the trigger guard, and you'll have a better chance of winning the lottery than to shooting your finger off...

ajgranda
10-23-2010, 17:52
I honestly have no use for FCS on any gun.

CAcop
10-23-2010, 18:50
Oh.....NO!!!!!!!!!!
:uglylol:

Fingers near the muzzle!!!!!! Oh, the humanity! !!!!

My tookus has barely escaped imminent danger for decades!:rofl:

I am so glad you are so cool as to never have to deal with someone who did something wrong in your prescence ever.

Me on the other hand I am responsible for people when I teach. If they went off and learned to press check or whatever term they picked up from whatever school by putting their fingers near the muzzle that is on them. I won't be sitting in the witness box explaining how I taught somebody something once where if done incorrectly could be bad and that the margin for error was shorter than I could have made it yet still get the job done.

Then again you could just be a jackass looking for a rise out of someone on the internet because your life has no meaning.

Either way I don't care. The question was asked and I answered it. You don't like the answer or think less of me for it I really don't care.

HAIL CAESAR
10-23-2010, 18:54
I wasn't trying to be a complete arse....but to be so adamant about keeping the fingers from being "near" the muzzle is ridiculous as it pertains to FCS.

deputy tom
10-23-2010, 19:16
My only experience with FCS is Springfield Loaded Pistols.Upper end guns might be a little less harsh but these Loaded models rip up leather holsters and ruin under-wear if you mex carry.I've never needed FCS to check if loaded chamber or not so for me they aren't needed.I may trade my current Loaded for a Mil-spec just to get away from these cheese graters.YMMV.tom.

Quack
10-23-2010, 19:17
i'm still saying that if one hates FCS to use JB Weld or Quik Steel to fill them in.