Lee Scale Rocks!!! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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WiskyT
10-20-2010, 17:23
...old Lyman Ohaus scale rocks more!!!

As you all know, I have been a big defender of the Lee Safety Scale. I still am. It works. It does what it's supposed to do and costs about $22.00. If you don't weigh often, and if you use the Auto Disc or dippers you don't need to weigh often, it's good enough to make ammo. Making ammo is the goal of a great many reloaders.

However, along with many cool items that I inherited from my father's gear, is a 1970 or so Lyman beam scale made by Ohaus in Florham Park, NJ. Florham park is just a stones throw from where I grew up. Well, this thing is much faster and easier to use than the Lee scale. The closest equivalent I could find to it is the RCBS 502, which looks to be the same thing with modern styling. The RCBS is $72.00. The Dillon requires frequent weighing, due to it's infinitely adjustable charge bar.

The Lyman scale, and I ASSume RCBS version, is so fast that I don't think a digital would be much faster. Coupled with my distrust of digital scales, at least $100.00 digital scales, I conclude that for people who can afford it, the RCBS 502 might just be the best scale out there. For people who can't afford it, or don't weigh often, the Lee is more than adequate.

If you listen carefully, you can hear C4W having chest pains...

dudel
10-20-2010, 17:41
...old Lyman Ohaus scale rocks more!!!


Yep. Ohaus makes a great scale. A quality product will continue give that great feeling for many,many years. Lower quality stuff doesn't.

Boxerglocker
10-20-2010, 17:53
The Dillon requires frequent weighing, due to it's infinitely adjustable charge bar.

This where charting powder weights using one of these, has for me in even just a shorttime already proven to be invaluble.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231

fredj338
10-20-2010, 17:55
For people who can't afford it, or don't weigh often, the Lee is more than adequate.
And that pretty much sums it up WT. I do so dislike adequate though.

GioaJack
10-20-2010, 17:59
Does it look like this?
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4325.jpg?1287618955

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4326.jpg?1287619042

Your dad was obviously a man of class and distinction... more proof that the apple sometimes does fall, very, very far from the tree. :whistling:


Jack

WiskyT
10-20-2010, 19:01
This where charting powder weights using one of these, has for me in even just a shorttime already proven to be invaluble.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231

That looks like a great product, but this machine will be dedicated to 40SW. That means I'll rarely change powder settings. So for the occasional change, I'll just do it by the seat of my pants. I made one change, from 4.5 to 5.0 Bullseye and got it right the first try, 1/4 turn. Not bad, especially with the scale that gives a reading relatively quickly. The first adjustment got me on, I reweighed the same charge by tiping the beam and letting it settle, which it did right back on the dot. Then I weighed three more and all were right on the money.

Colorado4Wheel
10-20-2010, 19:01
...old Lyman Ohaus scale rocks more!!!

As you all know, I have been a big defender of the Lee Safety Scale. I still am. It works. It does what it's supposed to do and costs about $22.00. If you don't weigh often, and if you use the Auto Disc or dippers you don't need to weigh often, it's good enough to make ammo. Making ammo is the goal of a great many reloaders.

However, along with many cool items that I inherited from my father's gear, is a 1970 or so Lyman beam scale made by Ohaus in Florham Park, NJ. Florham park is just a stones throw from where I grew up. Well, this thing is much faster and easier to use than the Lee scale. The closest equivalent I could find to it is the RCBS 502, which looks to be the same thing with modern styling. The RCBS is $72.00. The Dillon requires frequent weighing, due to it's infinitely adjustable charge bar.

The Lyman scale, and I ASSume RCBS version, is so fast that I don't think a digital would be much faster. Coupled with my distrust of digital scales, at least $100.00 digital scales, I conclude that for people who can afford it, the RCBS 502 might just be the best scale out there. For people who can't afford it, or don't weigh often, the Lee is more than adequate.

If you listen carefully, you can hear C4W having chest pains...

Why is the two poise so much faster in your opinion? I really don't see how it requires "frequent weighting" but I really don't know what you mean by that.

I said the Lee scales sucks. Never said it doesn't work. :tongueout:

WiskyT
10-20-2010, 19:02
Does it look like this?
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4325.jpg?1287618955

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4326.jpg?1287619042

Your dad was obviously a man of class and distinction... more proof that the apple sometimes does fall, very, very far from the tree. :whistling:


Jack

Actually, it looks nothing like that. It looks almost identicle to this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=605320

GioaJack
10-20-2010, 19:08
You're right... they look nothing alike but I bet they both do the same thing, weigh stuff.


Jack

WiskyT
10-20-2010, 19:10
Why is the two poise so much faster in your opinion? I really don't see how it requires "frequent weighting" but I really don't know what you mean by that.

I said the Lee scales sucks. Never said it doesn't work. :tongueout:

The Lee and the Lyman are both two poise, but the Lyman poise is easier to manipulate on the fine scale. The speed difference comes from the quicker settling and the more positive action of the beam. The Lee beam wanders around and then STOPS, which doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. That means I have to tip it a couple of times to make sure it repeats, which it always does. The Lyman beam is more linear in it's settling and just seems to be more confidence inspiring.

In terms of frequency of weighing, the Lee disc measure really can't be wrong. the 0.38cc cavity has been throwing 3.5 Bullseye for me for 25 years and the cavity can't change. I don't need to weigh with 99% of my loading because I already know what the measure is going to throw. With the Dillon, and standard adjuster, you have to dial it in with a scale to know what you are throwing. Plus, in theory, the Dillon could come out of adjustment, so it should be checked here and there. With the Lee, as long as it is going to full stop on each cycle, it has to be right, ASSuming your not loading stick powder with it. Even with SR4759 stick powder it was always consistent, no bridging.

WiskyT
10-20-2010, 19:14
You're right... they look nothing alike but I bet they both do the same thing, weigh stuff.


Jack

National Muzzle Loading Assoc, is that the precursor to the National Rifle Assoc? I could just see you in the audience getting choked up when Dan'l Boone, President of the NMA held up his presentation slingshot and proclaimed "From my cold, dead hands!!!"

Colorado4Wheel
10-20-2010, 19:15
I agree, I like the Lee Discs. I don't weight often on my Dillon either. So it's not a issue.

The lee I have takes forever to settle. It's also far more sensitive then needed so minor adjustments on the adjuster throw the adjuster really far. It's hard to get it to actually settle to the adjustment that puts the pointer in the middle. Tap (didn't move), tap (moved to little), tap (moved too much), tap it back the other way (moves too much again). It's like chasing your damb tail. Totally not worth saving $32 for that pleasure.

WiskyT
10-20-2010, 19:18
I agree, I like the Lee Discs. I don't weight often on my Dillon either. So it's not a issue.

The lee I have takes forever to settle. It's also far more sensitive then needed so minor adjustments on the adjuster throw the adjuster really far. It's hard to get it to actually settle to the adjustment that puts the pointer in the middle. Tap (didn't move), tap (moved to little), tap (moved too much), tap it back the other way (moves too much again). It's like chasing your damb tail. Totally not worth saving $32 for that pleasure.

Hold the Lee beam still with one hand, and move the fine poise with your fingertips ON YOUR OTHER HAND! That is why you have two hands. Take the other hand out of your shorts and give it a try:rofl:

Colorado4Wheel
10-20-2010, 19:26
Wow, never thought of doing that. :faint:

Thats sarcasm if you can't recognize it.

So you hold the thing, move it by hand, let go to let it settle, it's not right, grab it again, move the thing what may/may no be the right amount and start all over. Still a PITA.

For those that don't know the Lee scale does not have indents for the .1 gr adjustment. You tap/move a slider and hope it settles in the right spot. The way you then read it is with this white/black line disappearing setup. You have to guess when it starts and stops at a certian point to get the .X grain amount. The quality of that venier varies from scale to scale. Mine is horrible, my buddies was OK but not great. It's not a easy setup to use and has some abeguity (sp?) built into the system which adds even more confusion.

Colorado4Wheel
10-20-2010, 19:28
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/SA2056.pdf

Take a look for yourself.

PCJim
10-20-2010, 20:41
Actually, it looks nothing like that. It looks almost identicle to this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=605320

And that product you linked to, RCBS 502, is actually an Ohaus 5-0-5 scale. The 5-0-5 is not marketed under that name any longer. Interesting that is is now available in green with RCBS's name on it. The 5-0-5 was the standard in reloading. I obtained mine in '82 thru an inheritance and still use it today for all my reloading.

GioaJack
10-20-2010, 21:00
National Muzzle Loading Assoc, is that the precursor to the National Rifle Assoc? I could just see you in the audience getting choked up when Dan'l Boone, President of the NMA held up his presentation slingshot and proclaimed "From my cold, dead hands!!!"


You do realize that you're going to rot in hell, don't you?


Jack

Bello
10-21-2010, 04:09
i also dont mind the lee scale it is a lil slow as stated but i kinda just stick my finger over the magnet till it slows and let it go to speed things up a little bit otherwise is pretty accurate to my digital enos scale so i do not have any problems with a lee scale


P.S. wisky? when you coming back to jersey?

Boxerglocker
10-21-2010, 08:46
Wow, never thought of doing that. :faint:

Thats sarcasm if you can't recognize it.

So you hold the thing, move it by hand, let go to let it settle, it's not right, grab it again, move the thing what may/may no be the right amount and start all over. Still a PITA.

For those that don't know the Lee scale does not have indents for the .1 gr adjustment. You tap/move a slider and hope it settles in the right spot. The way you then read it is with this white/black line disappearing setup. You have to guess when it starts and stops at a certian point to get the .X grain amount. The quality of that venier varies from scale to scale. Mine is horrible, my buddies was OK but not great. It's not a easy setup to use and has some abeguity (sp?) built into the system which adds even more confusion.

:rofl: I have to agree with Steve. A beam scale is defiante and I have one for a back up but IMHO a digital is the way to go.
One nice feature of a digital is it's very easy to take an average reading within 0.00 of an grain.
Get your drop to where you think it should be, take 10 drops and just place them in the catch tray of the scale. If your target is 4.1g for example and the total is 41.6g you move a decimal point over and your know average is 4.16g. I realize you can also take a total with a beam, but it's much harder to take a cumilative measurement as your moving through each drop and adding them up in you mind.

PCJim
10-21-2010, 12:49
:rofl: I have to agree with Steve. A beam scale is defiante and I have one for a back up but IMHO a digital is the way to go.
One nice feature of a digital is it's very easy to take an average reading within 0.00 of an grain.
Get your drop to where you think it should be, take 10 drops and just place them in the catch tray of the scale. If your target is 4.1g for example and the total is 41.6g you move a decimal point over and your know average is 4.16g. I readlize you can also take a total with a beam, but it's much harder to take a cumilative measurement as your moving through each drop and adding them up in you mind.

Boxer, I have to disagree. If you want to figure your average on a beam scale....

I want to confirm that I am dropping a charge of 3.8gr BE. I will drop ten throws into the pan. Move the decimal to the right one place (x 10) and set the scale for 38gr. Confirm the average of the throws and adjust as necessary.

Granted, I love math and am a trained accountant. Maybe I just see it as a very simple problem that is easily solved.

Boxerglocker
10-21-2010, 13:35
Boxer, I have to disagree. If you want to figure your average on a beam scale....

I want to confirm that I am dropping a charge of 3.8gr BE. I will drop ten throws into the pan. Move the decimal to the right one place (x 10) and set the scale for 38gr. Confirm the average of the throws and adjust as necessary.

Granted, I love math and am a trained accountant. Maybe I just see it as a very simple problem that is easily solved.

That's a very good method Jim, one I'll take note of (learned something new today).... however, as I said before I'm aware it can be done once you have thrown 10 charges. I'm saying easier with a digital if your checking averages at 3, 5, 7 and so forth… the digital getting the cumulative total in comparison to a beam is instantaneous.

I normally do a 3 charge average adjust as required, then a 5 round average, adjust.... then a final 10.

PCJim
10-21-2010, 13:53
Boxer, just be aware that my method also has its limitations. Multiplying your desired charge by 10 doesn't necessarily tell you that you are throwing consistent weight charges. Using a 4.0 desired charge, if you had 5 throws at 3.9 and 5 at 4.1, the total would be 40 for an average of 4.0. You could also have within ten throws: four at 4.0, four at 3.8, and two at 4.4 and you would not realize that you were having major inconsistencies and two potentially dangerous charges.

I suppose that I have just become very comfortable with the degree of accuracy/repeatability the 550b powder throw has, especially after all the measuring I did when I first obtained the press.

WiskyT
10-21-2010, 15:09
Wow, never thought of doing that. :faint:

Thats sarcasm if you can't recognize it.

So you hold the thing, move it by hand, let go to let it settle, it's not right, grab it again, move the thing what may/may no be the right amount and start all over. Still a PITA.

For those that don't know the Lee scale does not have indents for the .1 gr adjustment. You tap/move a slider and hope it settles in the right spot. The way you then read it is with this white/black line disappearing setup. You have to guess when it starts and stops at a certian point to get the .X grain amount. The quality of that venier varies from scale to scale. Mine is horrible, my buddies was OK but not great. It's not a easy setup to use and has some abeguity (sp?) built into the system which adds even more confusion.

When my father saw someone having difficulty with a simple thing, like a push handle on a push door, he would say "Too many moving parts for ya?"

Moving a plastic slider is not that difficult, too many moving parts I suppose.

WiskyT
10-21-2010, 15:18
Boxer, just be aware that my method also has its limitations. Multiplying your desired charge by 10 doesn't necessarily tell you that you are throwing consistent weight charges. Using a 4.0 desired charge, if you had 5 throws at 3.9 and 5 at 4.1, the total would be 40 for an average of 4.0. You could also have within ten throws: four at 4.0, four at 3.8, and two at 4.4 and you would not realize that you were having major inconsistencies and two potentially dangerous charges.

I suppose that I have just become very comfortable with the degree of accuracy/repeatability the 550b powder throw has, especially after all the measuring I did when I first obtained the press.

Exactly, I never understood averaging throws. You could throw 9 one grain throws, one 41 grain throw, and end up with an average of 5.0 for each throw. Somehow that doesn't make me feel better.

As for finding the weight to the hundredth of a grain, one tenth doesn't even matter, WTF would I care about one hundredth?

WiskyT
10-21-2010, 15:25
P.S. wisky? when you coming back to jersey?

Not any time soon. Everybody in my family moved down here. I do miss the food. There is a range in Ridgfield, if you want to know about it, PM me.

WiskyT
10-21-2010, 15:26
You do realize that you're going to rot in hell, don't you?


Jack

We'll have to see. One more immoral offense here and there won't make a difference.

Boxerglocker
10-21-2010, 16:37
Exactly, I never understood averaging throws. You could throw 9 one grain throws, one 41 grain throw, and end up with an average of 5.0 for each throw. Somehow that doesn't make me feel better.

As for finding the weight to the hundredth of a grain, one tenth doesn't even matter, WTF would I care about one hundredth?

That is why I take averages at 3, 5, 7... then 10... watching for inconsistencies as they add up cumulatively. Kind of like a precursor to the final check.

For me it makes perfect sense, in my career path I have always been involved in taking reading and testing. It's just a redundant habit that I am used to… when I'm taking reading particularly for a system such as a fly by wire control or loop resistance measurement for a fuel monitoring system. Being redundant is a safe practice that can never be criticized. I have seem not doing so not only cause major losses in equipment monetary values of the $$$$$$ six digit range and sadly in my career also seen injury and loss of life.

WiskyT
10-21-2010, 17:01
That is why I take averages at 3, 5, 7... then 10... watching for inconsistencies add they add up cumulatively. Kind of like a precursor to the final check.

For me it makes perfect sense, in my career path I have always been involved in taking reading and testing. It's just a redundant habit that I am used to… when I'm taking reading particularly for a system such as a fly by wire control or loop resistance measurement for a fuel monitoring system. Being redundant is a safe practice that can never be criticized. I have seem not doing so not only cause major losses in equipment monetary values of the $$$$$$ six digit range and sadly in my career also seen injury and loss of life.

It sounds to me like you are just avoiding cutting the grass or going to the mall with the wife.:supergrin:

Boxerglocker
10-21-2010, 20:57
It sounds to me like you are just avoiding cutting the grass or going to the mall with the wife.:supergrin:

I was the one ALWAYS cutting the grass... and I like going to the mall... part of the reason why she is now the EX-wife....

WiskyT
10-22-2010, 18:59
I was the on ALWAYS cutting the grass... and I like going to the mall... part of the reason why she is now the EX-wife....

Dude, I get a shot in the ribs every time we are driving and I point out one of the Southern ladies mowing the grass. I even offered to get her one of those straw hats.

Boxerglocker
10-22-2010, 19:06
Dude, I get a shot in the ribs every time we are driving and I point out one of the Southern ladies mowing the grass. I even offered to get her one of those straw hats.

:upeyes: I know what you mean...