.45 GAP- Who Carries It? Options? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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thegriz18
10-20-2010, 18:22
Other than NYSP, PSP, GSP, SCHP, and FHP, who else has adopted the GAP? I'm always interested in this caliber. I try to be objective and understand that these agencies probably adopted the GAP because Glock gave them a sweet deal on it. It doesn't seem like the GAP has really caught on in major circles.

Also seems like there really aren't many SD load options. I'd like to see more offerings in the 200 gr range. Maybe an HST or Ranger T, or a PDX1 offering.

BOGE
10-20-2010, 18:42
All your answers can be found here:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=87

FWIW, there are many bullet options with the GAP from 185 gr. to 230 gr.

cowboy1964
10-20-2010, 18:55
The big JHP brands are made in GAP. The problem is finding some.

CanyonMan
10-20-2010, 20:08
I say this in ALL polite-ness (sp) I see NO since in the cartridge at all. Not to be mean or quick or short here. I just believe that if your going 45. Go with 45acp. Gaston loves having his name on this white elephant. ;)



Stay safe !




CM

thegriz18
10-20-2010, 20:51
I don't see any answers in the Bull Dawg forum. The only SD rounds I can find are Speer GDHP 185/200, 230 HST, Ranger T 230, some corbon loads, and other boutiques. Aside from WWB, I don't see a huge selection to choose from.

legion3
10-21-2010, 07:15
I don't see any answers in the Bull Dawg forum. The only SD rounds I can find are Speer GDHP 185/200, 230 HST, Ranger T 230, some corbon loads, and other boutiques. Aside from WWB, I don't see a huge selection to choose from.

I know what your saying. First off "quality" 230 grain SD ammo (HST RANGER and GOLDEN SABER) is very hard to find...no matter what anyone says. If they say they have no trouble finding it then ask them to hook you up with their source. Chances are they won't respond or will give you links to some place that has been out for months and has no idea when they will get more. You can find Magtech 230 but...

Speer GD in 200 is what most of the cops use and it can be found, it is pricy at over a buck a shot.

However, right now the FMJ and practice ammo is quite abundant on line.

Good deals on 230 grain FMJ Remington, and decent deals on WWB and even some Sellier & Bellot. Ammo to go, gunbroker, et al.

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a G39 and G38 and found 500 rounds of Ranger 230 grain. And for the time being I will be selective in shooting them, they should last me a while. I also pick up whatever 200 grain and up SD ammo I come across. (I also have 4 boxes of Corbon DPX and powr ball)

BOGE
10-21-2010, 09:28
I don't see any answers in the Bull Dawg forum. The only SD rounds I can find are Speer GDHP 185/200, 230 HST, Ranger T 230, some corbon loads, and other boutiques. Aside from WWB, I don't see a huge selection to choose from.

Did you use the SEARCH function?

thegriz18
10-21-2010, 10:30
Did you use the SEARCH function?

Yup... Looks like that forum had a purge.

Slug71
10-21-2010, 16:48
DoubleTap and Corbon has JHP GAP ammo too. Apparently Buffalo Bore is coming out with something next year.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_41

http://www.shopcorbon.com/Search.aspx?search_freetext=45gap

http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/super-x/silvertip-hollow-point/Pages/X45GSHP.aspx

http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/usa/jhp/Pages/USA45GJHP.aspx

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=353

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=404

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23977

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23978


(http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx)

Slug71
10-21-2010, 16:50
I say this in ALL polite-ness (sp) I see NO since in the cartridge at all. Not to be mean or quick or short here. I just believe that if your going 45. Go with 45acp. Gaston loves having his name on this white elephant. ;)



Stay safe !




CM

Just like Colt did with the ACP?

It really is a nice shooting round. I prefer it over the ACP. The G38 will be my next pistol. Will carry it over my G27 when i go in the woods.

CanyonMan
10-21-2010, 18:03
Just like Colt did with the ACP?

It really is a nice shooting round. I prefer it over the ACP. The G38 will be my next pistol. Will carry it over my G27 when i go in the woods.


Hey bud, good luck with it.

It wasn't just Colt involved in the M1911 (my EDC) but Samuel Colt , John M. Browning, Remington Rand. There have been several hands in the pie down through history of the development of the .45 to the .45acp revolver, to the 45acp M1911. ;)


Again, good luck with it.




CM

BOGE
10-21-2010, 18:12
Hey bud, good luck with it.

It wasn't just Colt involved in the M1911 (my EDC) but Samuel Colt , John M. Browning, Remington Rand. There have been several hands in the pie down through history of the development of the .45 to the .45acp revolver, to the 45acp M1911. ;)


Again, good luck with it.




CM

Sam Colt died in 1862 so unless he was consulted via séance I highly doubt he had any input. :supergrin: Also, Remington Rand did not exist in 1911. The only ``hands`` were John Browning, Colt & the gov`t. The original load was a 200 gr. bullet at 800 fps per Browning. The gov`t wanted a 230 gr. that harkened back to the .45 ``Revolver Ball`` load that was what we now call the .45 Schofield.

The GAP is a fantastic & more efficient round than the ACP and is pure joy to reload for.

cowboy1964
10-21-2010, 18:16
The GAP is a fantastic & more efficient round than the ACP and is pure joy to reload for.

And Glock is the only manufacturer of pistols chambered for it. The marketplace has spoken.

CanyonMan
10-21-2010, 19:48
Sam Colt died in 1862 so unless he was consulted via séance I highly doubt he had any input. :supergrin: Also, Remington Rand did not exist in 1911. The only ``hands`` were John Browning, Colt & the gov`t. The original load was a 200 gr. bullet at 800 fps per Browning. The gov`t wanted a 230 gr. that harkened back to the .45 ``Revolver Ball`` load that was what we now call the .45 Schofield.

The GAP is a fantastic & more efficient round than the ACP and is pure joy to reload for.



Hey cool.

Again, you and I are at a semantic problem. I am not explaining things to well, and you need to more closely look at what I "did say." Hands in 45calibers was the meaning. I think we all know John Browning was "the man," and I do know a tad about Colt ( i said 'Samuel' but meant "COLT" as a corp.... "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal" kinda deal, although I realize he was not here when the 45cal peace maker came into play) and the Government's hands in the 45acp M1911. But the 45cal did not "start with him," (JMB) and it did not end with him Boge. That's all.

I was not trying to give a detailed history lesson here. I can if I need to, but don't really care to or want to. Just simply meant the 45 'caliber' Period, has been around a while thanks to several people/company's, makers, producers, through history 'and evolved' into a real fine weapon we call the M1911 45acp. That is all I meant ! :supergrin:


Adios !





CM

cole
10-21-2010, 21:58
And Glock is the only manufacturer of pistols chambered for it. The marketplace has spoken.

It's a better, more efficient .45 defensive cartridge. For me, the GAP is the best caliber for a defensive gun I plan to shoot very little. When it becomes mainstream, I'm on it. Until then, nope

thegriz18
10-22-2010, 00:10
My biggest issue is the availability. I'd like to have the option of buying local for less than $25 a box for FMJ.

skyboss_4evr
10-22-2010, 01:04
I say this in ALL polite-ness (sp) I see NO since in the cartridge at all. Not to be mean or quick or short here. I just believe that if your going 45. Go with 45acp. Gaston loves having his name on this white elephant. ;)




You see no SINCE...???

:upeyes:

legion3
10-22-2010, 04:51
It's a better, more efficient .45 defensive cartridge. For me, the GAP is the best caliber for a defensive gun I plan to shoot very little. When it becomes mainstream, I'm on it. Until then, nope

The bold statement is how I view the gun and caliber too. Since I prefer Glock's it is of no matter to me whether any other maker makes 45 GAP platforms as I have the platforms I want and probably would not buy these other makes anyway.

I am however willing to go ahead an partake of the 45GAP, sometimes you need to be willing not to play the mainstream safe card and just go for it.

I was an early 10mm supporter in the late 80's and it was not yet mainstream...if it really is now.

CanyonMan
10-22-2010, 07:39
You see no SINCE...???

:upeyes:



Shore Donnt !

I'm not hear for a spellin contest Poindexter ! :tongueout:





CM

SDGlock23
10-22-2010, 07:46
Had one, and it shot pretty well. With that being said, stick to the .45 ACP.

Slug71
10-22-2010, 09:29
My biggest issue is the availability. I'd like to have the option of buying local for less than $25 a box for FMJ.

Call around.

Kittery Trading Post in Maine ships free and has American Eagle for $24.95.

Slug71
10-22-2010, 09:34
And Glock is the only manufacturer of pistols chambered for it. The marketplace has spoken.

Sure about that?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=80

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=104

All the new XDm pistols are on the site which means it has been edited at least a few times recently. Youd think theyd have removed the GAPs while doing so if they no longer made them.
Thing is, how is any other manufacturer suppose to compete with Glocks prices at the moment anyway? Especially coming out of a recession.

cowboy1964
10-22-2010, 10:51
Sure about that?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=80

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=104

All the new XDm pistols are on the site which means it has been edited at least a few times recently. Youd think theyd have removed the GAPs while doing so if they no longer made them.
Thing is, how is any other manufacturer suppose to compete with Glocks prices at the moment anyway? Especially coming out of a recession.

I've been trying to call Springfield to verify that the XD GAP is no longer produced. I'm still 99% sure that is the case. I can't find any Springfield catalog online. Anyone have a link? The XD GAP is still on their website probably because you can still find NIBs out there. But regardless, what advantage did the XD in .45 GAP have over the ACP version? Is it smaller, lighter, what?

Para is the only other company that ever produced a GAP model and they dropped that.

GAP came out in 2003. Companies are not not making GAP models because of the recession, they are not making them because they won't sell enough of them.

Slug71
10-22-2010, 11:15
I've been trying to call Springfield to verify that the XD GAP is no longer produced. I'm still 99% sure that is the case. I can't find any Springfield catalog online. Anyone have a link? The XD GAP is still on their website probably because you can still find NIBs out there. But regardless, what advantage did the XD in .45 GAP have over the ACP version? Is it smaller, lighter, what?

Para is the only other company that ever produced a GAP model and they dropped that.

GAP came out in 2003. Companies are not not making GAP models because of the recession, they are not making them because they won't sell enough of them.

Im not sure but i think the Para never even went into mass production. Never see them for sale.

The HS2000(Springfield XD) is marketed in Europe. I think i read somewhere that is why Sellier & Bellot started producing GAP ammo.

Im sure the recession had something to do with it. There was only a 5 year gap between when it was released and when we went into a recession(2008). Hardly enough time to make a new caliber mainstream IMO. I dont believe any other caliber did it that quick and naturally as you said, they would have cut it because it wasnt selling and when times are tough you cut costs by dropping products which dont sell. If XD did in fact drop it, it would have only been since 2008/2009 right in the middle of the recession. Then to compete with Glock's prices would have made it even harder.

BOGE
10-22-2010, 12:59
...Companies are not not making GAP models because of the recession, they are not making them because they won't sell enough of them.

How do you know that? Are you the head CPA for Glock in Austria?

FWIW, the GAP outsells the 10mm at Glock as this was posted here a year or so ago.

legion3
10-22-2010, 16:28
Im not sure but i think the Para never even went into mass production. Never see them for sale.

The HS2000(Springfield XD) is marketed in Europe. I think i read somewhere that is why Sellier & Bellot started producing GAP ammo.



Not sure about how mass they were but...

http://www.gunsamerica.com/966810069/Guns/Pistols/Para-Ordnance-Pistols/PARA_ORDNANCE_LDA_CARRY_GAP_CWX645G_45_GA.htm

http://www.gunsinternational.com/PARA-CCO-GAP-Model-Number-CWX745G-45-GAP-NIB.cfm?gun_id=100041264

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=873807

legion3
10-22-2010, 16:33
How do you know that? Are you the head CPA for Glock in Austria?

FWIW, the GAP outsells the 10mm at Glock as this was posted here a year or so ago.

Well the 10mm garners (or darn near) no government contracts - save the Danish Army. Glock 10mm's are only sold to individuals and the caliber has limited appeal. I guess I can prepare to be slapped around by the 10mm guys :whistling:

All of the other glock calibers are used by several Govenrment units (police and military) around the globe.

packinaglock
10-22-2010, 17:37
When I carry my G37 I have it packed with 230g Ranger T's

Slug71
10-22-2010, 18:17
Not sure about how mass they were but...

http://www.gunsamerica.com/966810069/Guns/Pistols/Para-Ordnance-Pistols/PARA_ORDNANCE_LDA_CARRY_GAP_CWX645G_45_GA.htm

http://www.gunsinternational.com/PARA-CCO-GAP-Model-Number-CWX745G-45-GAP-NIB.cfm?gun_id=100041264

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=873807

Thanks, like im not trying like hell to get a Gen4 G38 out of my head already. :faint:

NonPCnraRN
10-22-2010, 19:39
I think the 45 GAP is to the 45 ACP as the 45 Cowboy Special is to the 45 Colt. With more efficient powders the larger cases aren't needed to get standard pressure velocities. The GAP can reach standard ACP velocities in smaller sized pistols than the ACP. Is one better than the other? It depends on what you need in the way of a gun/cartridge combo. Will the GAP equal the ACP in standard loadings? Yes. Can you reach velocities in the GAP that you can achieve in +P ACP loadings? No. Can you load a 255 gr bullet in the GAP to equal ACP loads by BB or DT? No. But who cares? If all you want is a 200-230 gr bullet at 45 ACP standard pressure velocities in a smaller sized handgun then the GAP is a good choice. I like the concept of the GAP round for smaller sized guns ie G39. I also load for my Milspec with loads that equal the original 45 Colt load, 255 gr bullet at 950 fps. 2 different guns with 2 different missions. One could argue that we don't need a 40 S&W since we can down load the 10mm or we don't need the 357 Sig when we have the 38 Super+P. Personally, I am glad we have all these choices. But then again I have a 44 mag Super Blackhawk but would love a 44 spl Montado (short barreled New Vaquero). The real problem is too many gun choices, not enough money!

cowboy1964
10-22-2010, 21:05
I did confirm with Springfield that the XD GAP was discontinued. They didn't say when but from my understanding it's been awhile now.

legion3
10-23-2010, 06:13
I did confirm with Springfield that the XD GAP was discontinued. They didn't say when but from my understanding it's been awhile now.

Its been over a year since it was last listed either by HS Arms (which is the european distributor) or Springfield Arms (The US distributor). And the Para ordnance was ended a few years back.

Nevertheless, it still means nothing to me as long as I can get it in Glock that is good enough, but I do agree that the market has spoken, at least for now.

Not many "big" "mainstream" makers make a 10mm auto pistol either. Glock is about the only one of any size that makes a NON-1911 style, middle price point gun. (Well I guess EAA if you consider it mainstream and VELTOR :rofl: expensive Bren Ten copy if it ever actually shows up)

Most of the 1911 10mm makers charge a high price point

legion3
10-23-2010, 06:15
Thanks, like im not trying like hell to get a Gen4 G38 out of my head already. :faint:

Well the G38 Gen 4 will eventually show up and with Glock behind it made for quite some time.

These Para's won't come around again and will be hard to find. If you want one of those I would not hesitate to long.

syr74
10-24-2010, 21:12
I've got no grudge against GAP personally, but I'm likewise not surprised that it has failed to gain a lot of traction thus far either and I'm not certain there is any widespread, compelling reason to see this change anytime soon. I think the stumbling block here is that you have to find a reason why a .45 caliber cartridge with the power of the older ACP round in a shorter package would prove meaningfully advantageous over the older, longer round in the real world, and do so sufficiently to supplant a cartridge with the allure and support of the .45 ACP.

I can almost see how a sort of '9mm Para. sized' 1911 could potentially give some reason for being here, as we nearly saw with the Springfield Defender/Springfield EMP. Unfortunately, I think the EMP's biggest shortcoming might be that they had to keep the gun .45 caliber wide to fit the GAP, which IMO makes the proportions a bit odd since it arguably ended up being more akin to a 1911 with a slightly revised grip than the truly re-sized 1911 folks really wanted (I suspect the EMP's proportions would get even weirder were the gun offered in longer Commander and Government-esque barrel lengths) No, unfortunately I think the breakthrough here would be to drop both length and width of the gun as a whole and the grip down to say .40S&W size since that makes the smaller 1911 some folks want, and Springfield Armory tried to build, in a package that is well proportioned and which makes sense.

You arguably run into similar problems with the other major appeal, which is that you can fit 45 caliber firepower into a wonder-nine. The issue here being that too many gun makers have either designed their pistols with a version which accommodates ACP from the outset, or didn't design their pistols wide enough to accept the GAP without major adaptation anyway. A good example here IMO is that a Browning Hi Power in 45 GAP might actually garner some serious attention, but then they had to virtually reinvent the top end of the gun for .40S&W as is, there is no way .45 GAP is fitting in there without major revision to the design....at which point you may as well just go with the more popular .45 ACP.

The one place where I can see a .45 GAP cartridge is in a small, single stack, deep cover rig where that extra bit of material taken off the grip might make a difference. That I might carry as a BUG in certain situations...depending upon the platform of course....and I wouldn't worry about the caliber mis-match since I never carry reloads for my BUG. But then, nobody makes a pistol like that chambered in .45 GAP.

Slug71
10-24-2010, 21:33
I've got no grudge against GAP personally, but I'm likewise not surprised that it has failed to gain a lot of traction thus far either and I'm not certain there is any widespread, compelling reason to see this change anytime soon. I think the stumbling block here is that you have to find a reason why a .45 caliber cartridge with the power of the older ACP round in a shorter package would prove meaningfully advantageous over the older, longer round in the real world, and do so sufficiently to supplant a cartridge with the allure and support of the .45 ACP.

I can almost see how a sort of '9mm Para. sized' 1911 could potentially give some reason for being here, as we nearly saw with the Springfield Defender/Springfield EMP. Unfortunately, I think the EMP's biggest shortcoming might be that they had to keep the gun .45 caliber wide to fit the GAP, which IMO makes the proportions a bit odd since it arguably ended up being more akin to a 1911 with a slightly revised grip than the truly re-sized 1911 folks really wanted (I suspect the EMP's proportions would get even weirder were the gun offered in longer Commander and Government-esque barrel lengths) No, unfortunately I think the breakthrough here would be to drop both length and width of the gun as a whole and the grip down to say .40S&W size since that makes the smaller 1911 some folks want, and Springfield Armory tried to build, in a package that is well proportioned and which makes sense.

You arguably run into similar problems with the other major appeal, which is that you can fit 45 caliber firepower into a wonder-nine. The issue here being that too many gun makers have either designed their pistols with a version which accommodates ACP from the outset, or didn't design their pistols wide enough to accept the GAP without major adaptation anyway. A good example here IMO is that a Browning Hi Power in 45 GAP might actually garner some serious attention, but then they had to virtually reinvent the top end of the gun for .40S&W as is, there is no way .45 GAP is fitting in there without major revision to the design....at which point you may as well just go with the more popular .45 ACP.

The one place where I can see a .45 GAP cartridge is in a small, single stack, deep cover rig where that extra bit of material taken off the grip might make a difference. That I might carry as a BUG in certain situations...depending upon the platform of course....and I wouldn't worry about the caliber mis-match since I never carry reloads for my BUG. But then, nobody makes a pistol like that chambered in .45 GAP.

Go shoot it and then come back and tell us if you still feel the same. If more people were more open minded to try something different, then the cartridge would actually take off and there would be more ammo.
Its peoples ignorance to try something different that makes things fail.

syr74
10-25-2010, 18:55
Go shoot it and then come back and tell us if you still feel the same. If more people were more open minded to try something different, then the cartridge would actually take off and there would be more ammo.
Its peoples ignorance to try something different that makes things fail.

Unless there is something I missed what is there about this cartridge that is going to change my mind? Power, recoil, accuracy, and reliability are going to be no better than 45 ACP and, in some cases like reliability, would likely get worse in some applications. Throw in the fact that I prefer a single stack grip and I just don't see how there is anything that could currently sway me?

I wont say I wouldn't own a .45GAP, but there is no magic here that is going to make this cartridge shock and surprise us or make most folks clamor for one. To be honest it smacks of reinvention for reinventions sake.

GVFlyer
10-25-2010, 22:09
Good couple of posts syr74.

My primary range had a rental G37 (no longer). I rented it and fired 50 rounds through it as I do with most new pistols/calibers. After firing it, I felt no compelling reason to buy a Glock .45 GAP in any of its iterations.

I pretty much agree with what so many of the gun magazines have said, "The .45 GAP is the answer to a question nobody asked".

BOGE
10-25-2010, 22:16
Unless there is something I missed what is there about this cartridge that is going to change my mind? Power, recoil, accuracy, and reliability are going to be no better than 45 ACP and, in some cases like reliability, would likely get worse in some applications. Throw in the fact that I prefer a single stack grip and I just don't see how there is anything that could currently sway me?

I wont say I wouldn't own a .45GAP, but there is no magic here that is going to make this cartridge shock and surprise us or make most folks clamor for one. To be honest it smacks of reinvention for reinventions sake.

And the .40 S&W is the 38-40 reinvented, etc., ad nauseum. The list goes on & on. Very little is new under the sun in cartridge development. There are no landmark steps in ctg. development, only tweaking and incremental gains. There is really little difference between a .45 Colt with BP loads and a modern .45 Colt. Projectile, percusssion, case & propellant. Old hat since the 1870`s and is not the .45 ACP the .45 Schofield round ``reinvented`` for the 1911? Same velocity and same 230 gr. weight.

My point being is that if you are waiting for a revolutionary breakthrough in firearms technology you were born a century too early.

However, if you have not shot the GAP then you really don`t know....do you?

syr74
10-26-2010, 06:25
And the .40 S&W is the 38-40 reinvented, etc., ad nauseum. The list goes on & on. Very little is new under the sun in cartridge development. There are no landmark steps in ctg. development, only tweaking and incremental gains. There is really little difference between a .45 Colt with BP loads and a modern .45 Colt. Projectile, percusssion, case & propellant. Old hat since the 1870`s and is not the .45 ACP the .45 Schofield round ``reinvented`` for the 1911? Same velocity and same 230 gr. weight.

My point being is that if you are waiting for a revolutionary breakthrough in firearms technology you were born a century too early.

But you're doing what it seems all of the GAP apologists do, you're acting as though none of those cartridges offer anything of significance the .45 GAP doesn't and that simply isn't true. For example, a 1911 is arguably going to make for an ergonomic hand-full if you try to adapt it to .45 Schofield, same can be said for .40 S&W and the .38-40. Heck, even the 9x23 Win. offers a meaningful improvement in terms of rim design and pressure capability compared to the .38 Super and it didn't gain traction.

.45 GAP just took what was more or less an already 'short enough' .45 ACP cartridge and made it shorter with no improvement in performance and some meaningful downsides like an increase in pressure and potentially less reliable feeding. The only real niche for this cartridge is double stack pistols wide enough to handle a .45 caliber cartridge but too short to handle a .45 ACP and which don't already have a larger variant to handle that longer cartridge. If that isn't trying to invent a niche I don't know what is. And when Gaston decided to design guns around the longer ACP cartridge he effectively shot his own, shorter .45 in the proverbial head.

Get defensive if you will, but to say that this is one of the more convoluted cartridge developments of our time is an understatement, and that when there are some obviously empty niches the could be filled.

However, if you have not shot the GAP then you really don`t know....do you?

I think were letting rhetoric over-ride logic here. The numbers make what this cartridge is what it and is not very clear. Unless you just love the grip of a particular double stack pistol designed originally around the 9mm and 40 S&W, and that particular double stack pistol is wide enough to accommodate a .45 caliber cartridge, there really isn't anything to see here.

BOGE
10-26-2010, 08:59
I am not a GAP ``apologist``. I am someone who actually owns, reloads for & shoots a GAP. However, most of all I am not some Poindexter theorizing about what ctg. is superior based on his own whimsical ideas as obviously the firearms engineers are totally ignorant in as they have not realized what a genius you are in having not totally embraced your superior ideas. :upeyes:

Submit your resume: http://www.cci-ammunition.com/

GunFighter45ACP
10-26-2010, 13:56
I looked at the GAP after they were out but IMO, it didn't offer anything to me that my 45acps weren't already doing. If I didn't already own 45acp & I wanted that size of caliber in a Glock platform, then maybe I would give GAP a 2nd look, but as things turned out, that 2nd look never happened.

Anyways, what's the realistic point of multiple GAP bullet weight offerings if you can't find what you're looking for on a regular basis? Unless you reload or are issued this caliber, there are other, equally as good caliber offering out there, w/more readily available ammo at more economical prices. I just get back to the OP & agree that the Depts/Agenices using this caliber must have gotten one heck of a deal (just like those issuing Sigs & going w/357sig), because I don't see an advantage in using 45GAP as a duty caliber in a duty sized weapon when you compare it to Glocks other offerings in 40sw or 45acp.

tx787
10-26-2010, 15:42
I just ordered a lightly used G37 with night sights and 3 mags for $359 shipped to my FFL; I figured for that price it's worth at least trying it out. I think the only advantage besides price of the gun is the smaller frame sized compared to the G21 but you also lose 3 rounds of capacity so it's a strange platform in many ways. I also don't like 40 S&W so am hesitant to get a G22.

syr74
10-27-2010, 06:54
I am not a GAP ``apologist``. I am someone who actually owns, reloads for & shoots a GAP. However, most of all I am not some Poindexter theorizing about what ctg. is superior based on his own whimsical ideas as obviously the firearms engineers are totally ignorant in as they have not realized what a genius you are in having not totally embraced your superior ideas. :upeyes:

Spoken like someone who has never worked with an engineer. I've had a few career changes over the years, but I spent a relatively long and successful career in manufacturing and development in the automotive industry. A great deal of that time was spent in prototyping making certain that our engineers didn't do anything silly....literally. In fact, we had a sort of 'inside joke' that became a common saying among some of us...nothing is as dangerous as an engineer or accountant left unchecked.

So, if you are waiting for me to join in your little 'engineer worship' session you'll be waiting a while. Of course the truth is that all of this simply sounds like a way for you to deflect in an attempt to avoid producing a genuinely meaningfully advantage the GAP provides over the ACP that translates into something Joe consumer will actually be able to see and use in the real world.

If you have found a niche for the cartridge in your collection, knock yourself out. Heck, I very nearly bought a Glock 37 for very cheap as a 'truck gun' I could beat around a little and not feel guilty about. Of course for me the price is by and large what attracted me, but on the flip side the price tells us something about the cartridge too.

BOGE
10-27-2010, 08:50
Spoken like someone who has never worked with an engineer...

I have spoken several times with the engineer who designed the GAP ctg. :wavey: Again, if you have not shot the GAP then I for one am not interested in your opinons as you obviously don`t know what you`re talking about. You are proselytizing.

syr74
10-27-2010, 08:54
I have spoken several times with the engineer who designed the GAP ctg. :wavey: Again, if you have not shot the GAP then I for one am not interested in your opinons as you obviously don`t know what you`re talking about. You are proselytizing.

Ah, so it really is engineer worship. And of course, we still get no comment on why this cartridge is going to wow us all if we just shot it. (possibly because there is nothing about this cartridge that would cause that) You've got nothing, you've been called on it, and you don't like it. Why not just own up to it and move on?

BOGE
10-27-2010, 14:12
Ah, so it really is engineer worship. And of course, we still get no comment on why this cartridge is going to wow us all if we just shot it. (possibly because there is nothing about this cartridge that would cause that) You've got nothing, you've been called on it, and you don't like it. Why not just own up to it and move on?

FNG with less than 150 posts. I´m done feeding the TROLL.

Moderator, please lock this thread.

tuica
10-27-2010, 14:43
I am a big fan of the 45ACP - own four handguns in that caliber, and was skeptical of the 45GAP. I now own a G37 and G39, and am quite impressed with the performance and smaller size. Will probably never replace the ACP (in my lifetime anyway!), but hope it remains a viable and available cartridge. I believe that any new product that duplicates the performance of another - and does so in a smaller size - is an improvement. Remember how large radios; televisions; telephones, etc. used to be? And most folks are not wistfully longing for the days when a portable telephone was nearly as large as a walkie-talkie. I have been called a luddite by some - but will acknowledge an innovation when I see one. Cheers

mesteve2
10-27-2010, 14:49
Get 2 or 3 cases at a time. get the best price on freight also. :wow:

Then sell to other and make a buck.

syr74
10-27-2010, 17:38
FNG with less than 150 posts. I´m done feeding the TROLL.

Moderator, please lock this thread.

ROFL, the fact that you are tenured on this forum in no way makes you any less of a pot stirrer. It took me about a day as a member to figure out your m.o..

I am a big fan of the 45ACP - own four handguns in that caliber, and was skeptical of the 45GAP. I now own a G37 and G39, and am quite impressed with the performance and smaller size. Will probably never replace the ACP (in my lifetime anyway!), but hope it remains a viable and available cartridge. I believe that any new product that duplicates the performance of another - and does so in a smaller size - is an improvement. Remember how large radios; televisions; telephones, etc. used to be? And most folks are not wistfully longing for the days when a portable telephone was nearly as large as a walkie-talkie. I have been called a luddite by some - but will acknowledge an innovation when I see one. Cheers

Now that is a good post.

ColCol
10-27-2010, 18:20
I've always had an affinity for the .45 cal. be it ACP or Colt. I've had my share of both. However, I've not let that love for the caliber override the fact that I'd never buy a 9mm as I have two different ones-the G19 and a 6906 S&W. both excellent pistols and an excellent round with the right ammo.

I'm giving some consideration to the GAP because I like the size pistol and that it's a .45 cal. Life's about changes and adventures and I'm getting too old to not have an adventurous lifestyle so, me thinks there is definitely a G38 in my future. I'd even try the 357 Sig if I wasn't afraid I'd worsen my ears. I've got enough ringing in them as it is but, for what it is, I think it's a super cartridge.Nothing wrong with reachinig out and trying something a bit different. We only go around once so, reach for the Gusto...er, Gaston.

GVFlyer
10-28-2010, 23:05
I'm giving some consideration to the GAP because I like the size pistol and that it's a .45 cal. Life's about changes and adventures and I'm getting too old to not have an adventurous lifestyle so, me thinks there is definitely a G38 in my future. I'd even try the 357 Sig if I wasn't afraid I'd worsen my ears. I've got enough ringing in them as it is but, for what it is, I think it's a super cartridge.Nothing wrong with reachinig out and trying something a bit different. We only go around once so, reach for the Gusto...er, Gaston.

In my job, I sometimes support people that require Secret Service protection. I've gotten to know some of these folks and they've made me a .357 SIG convert. I'm as big of an advocate for the .357 SIG as the most rabid .45 Gapper here who proselytizes for his caliber.

These are my carry guns in .357 SIG. They're powerful, accurate, reliable and comfortably concealable.

Heckler & Koch USP Compact LEM
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/HKUSPC-1.jpg?t=1288328230

Sig Sauer P239 SAS DAK
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/SigP239SAS-1.jpg?t=1288328230

spodwo
10-30-2010, 07:00
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by cowboy1964 http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16179189#post16179189)
And Glock is the only manufacturer of pistols chambered for it. The marketplace has spoken.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Sure about that?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=80 (http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=80)

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=104 (http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=104)

All the new XDm pistols are on the site which means it has been edited at least a few times recently. Youd think theyd have removed the GAPs while doing so if they no longer made them.


You can't find SA GAP Pistols anywhere....SA has not been asking the manufacturer to make them, import them nor market them anymore. Yes - the GAP is still listed on Springfield's website but do a search for a NIB one - none to be had except new "old" stock and in short supply.

For all practical purposes - the GAP is a Glock thing only at the present time.

unit1069
10-30-2010, 08:01
In my job, I sometimes support people that require Secret Service protection. I've gotten to know some of these folks and they've made me a .357 SIG convert. I'm as big of an advocate for the .357 SIG as the most rabid .45 Gapper here who proselytizes for his caliber.

These are my carry guns in .357 SIG. They're powerful, accurate, reliable and comfortably concealable.

Heckler & Koch USP Compact LEM
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/HKUSPC-1.jpg?t=1288328230

Sig Sauer P239 SAS DAK
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/SigP239SAS-1.jpg?t=1288328230

I bought a Glock G-32 three and a half years ago for my first "serious" pistol after studying up on .357sig caliber. I am still impressed with its power, accuracy, and range that fit a wide array of situations.

ColCol
10-31-2010, 10:59
The two things I don't care for in the 357 SIG are the muzzle blast(from what I've been told and read about-no experience) and more difficult to reload for in that you have to be concerned with the shoulder and not adjust the size die to set back the shoulder...just like with a bottle neck case in a rifle. Other than that, the concept is great-a 357 Magnum in an auto loader.

BTW, unit1069-love that P239. The grips look beautiful.

GVFlyer
10-31-2010, 21:41
I bought a Glock G-32 three and a half years ago for my first "serious" pistol after studying up on .357sig caliber. I am still impressed with its power, accuracy, and range that fit a wide array of situations.

Yep, 525 pounds of energy for 125 grain Speer ammo and 575 pounds for 115 grain Corbon .357 SIG ammunition is impressive.

thegriz18
10-31-2010, 23:56
deleted...