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matt_lowry123
10-24-2010, 18:18
I was just wondering if the guys here with expensive 1911's could tell the difference in shooting high end 1911's. I'm not really that good of a shot so I don't buy expensive 1911's. The best ones I have are 2 valors and a trp. The rest of them are kimbers and a few Springfield loaded models. So my question is can you all tell if you're shooting a Wilson, Baer, browns, or a nighthawk? Once I pay off debt I'd like to buy a few semi customs just to have them but can you all tell the difference in shooting the high end 1911's?

PhoneCop
10-24-2010, 19:18
I can feel the difference in trigger and slide to frame fit.

AZ Husker
10-24-2010, 19:20
They all outshoot me, but my Brown Kobra Carry just feels more natural in my hand. It lends confidence to my shooting. That said, I shoot better with my customized Colt S70, but that's the gun I practice with the most, plus it cost more than my EB!

matt_lowry123
10-24-2010, 19:25
Thanks for the replies!!! I've never shot anything better than a valor but I just wanted to know how much better the more expensive guns were. If you got a trigger job done on a cheaper 1911 could you still tell a difference?

Quack
10-24-2010, 19:51
the difference is in the fit. the tighter the tolerance makes the gun return to the same mechanical position shot after shot. The trigger is only one part of the equation, the rest is how well the barrel is fit/locks up, then slide tightness.

The Valor is a nice gun. i shoot my DW Guardian as well as my semi-customs, so the limiting factor is me. Now my Springfield Loaded 9mm is a good example of how a looser fit gun shoots. i can't shoot it as accurately as my more expensive guns. what is the difference? the barrel, and slide fit is looser than the expensive guns. It did shoot better after i swapped out the barrel bushing to a drop-in Brown bushing which made it tighter. The trigger in it is a C&S Super Match. all my guns are setup the similarly, so i'm confident that the difference is in the fit.

skipsan
10-24-2010, 19:56
I believe that a well-done trigger job on a sub-$1000 1911 will go a long way to erase performance differences between it and its more expensive relatives. Throw in an accurizing job (fitted barrel, bushing, etc) and you're there for the majority of 1911 shooters. I'm not ready to dump the more expensives 1911s in the safe in favor of a tuned Mil-Spec or whatever, but if performance/$$ was all I was looking for, the tuned Mil-Spec or equivalent would be the way I'd go--for less than $1000.

bac1023
10-24-2010, 20:21
Yes, there certainly is a distinct difference that's already been outlined by some of our fine members here.

samuse
10-24-2010, 20:42
This is my preferred 45ACP launcher. Not really high-end, just a P-II with a Harrison trigger, and the rear sight notch opened up to .140". It shoots well and has been 100% reliable. It is just shy of 10K rounds, mostly WWB. I replaced the extractor at about 6K (it never failed but ejection got kinda erratic), dressed down some slight peening on the ejector, all springs have been replaced at reasonable intervals and good mags are always used. This gun was well worth the money.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/003-2.jpg?t=1287974223

matt_lowry123
10-24-2010, 21:21
Thanks everybody for their input!! Maybe one of these days I'll be able to afford a semi custom!!

PlasticGuy
10-25-2010, 10:44
Like any other mechanical device, there is a point of diminishing returns. Is a $1000 1911 going to be twice as good as a $500 1911? Yes, if you buy wisely. Is a $2000 1911 going to be twice as good as a $1000 1911? To me yes, but it will depend what you're looking for in a pistol.

I have a full custom by Ted Yost that would cost about $7000 to replicate. It is the nicest pistol I've ever owned, but the expense is in details and personalization that some people wouldn't notice or care about. I have $2000-$3000 1911's that are just as accurate and reliable. When you're really ready to start shopping, you need to define your needs and draw a list of priorities. Sometimes it's worth it to buy the best, and other times it's just throwing money into the wind. Only you can decide where that line falls for you.

bac1023
10-25-2010, 12:18
Like any other mechanical device, there is a point of diminishing returns. Is a $1000 1911 going to be twice as good as a $500 1911? Yes, if you buy wisely. Is a $2000 1911 going to be twice as good as a $1000 1911? To me yes, but it will depend what you're looking for in a pistol.

I have a full custom by Ted Yost that would cost about $7000 to replicate. It is the nicest pistol I've ever owned, but the expense is in details and personalization that some people wouldn't notice or care about. I have $2000-$3000 1911's that are just as accurate and reliable. When you're really ready to start shopping, you need to define your needs and draw a list of priorities. Sometimes it's worth it to buy the best, and other times it's just throwing money into the wind. Only you can decide where that line falls for you.

:goodpost:

Well said, PG.

ambluemax
10-25-2010, 12:30
Yes I can feel the difference between a high end production 1911 like the SA TRP or Valor and a semi custom, but the difference is slight and your ability to appreciate the difference (enough for it to be value added for you)depends upon how much you shoot. If you are just a recreational user...shooting for funzies (technical term)- its just a conversation piece (waste of money IMO). If you practice (ie dry fire and mag changes) and shoot a lot as in serious competitor or professional gun-toter (LEO/MIL) its definatly value added because the gun is in your hands all the time. I think the difference is more in the dynamic handling characteristics than the actual on paper hits. Personally I could care less if one pistol can shoot 1/4" tigher groups out of a ransom rest than the other. I see smooth action, no rough edges, and precision fit parts and controls that help me run the pistol better, and feel more comfortable in my hand as more important that minute differences in accuracy. In action pistol comp, a 3" group is scored the same as an oblong hole, but being able to hit the -0/A zone faster yeilds an advantage. Semi custom pistols can give you that advantage if that is a serious personal goal of yours.

Personally if I already had 2 valors and a TRP in addition to a handfull of quality production 1911's...I'd have a hard timejustifing the money for a semi custom. I have a TRP and a CBOB and its a tough sell to myself. Go out and shoot what you have IMO

matt_lowry123
10-25-2010, 12:44
Thanks for the input everybody!!! I really like everybodys answers!! I'm the kind of person that just shoots for fun. Maybe 100 rounds a month on average.

Once again thanks for the answers!!! I've
Never shot an expensive gun and was just wondering if there was much of a differance. Apparently there is!!! Thanks to everybody that filled me in!!

JK-linux
10-25-2010, 12:53
I can't tell any practical difference when it comes to hitting the target accurately, quickly and reliably. I have a bone stock Colt 1991-A1 Commander, a lightly customized (long trigger/sights) 1990's Norinco 1911-A1 and a Wilson Professional. Other than pretty detail work, extended thingies, appearance and durability of the finish and how tight they are fitted... they all work just fine. The Norinco gets shot most often and the Colt gets carried most often. I'll probably sell the Wilson and keep the money.

MD357
10-25-2010, 13:18
I'm the kind of person that just shoots for fun. Maybe 100 rounds a month on average.



Honestly, I wouldn't mess with custom guns then, unless you want something pretty to sit in the safe. If you're not shooting that much, or aren't going to carry them, I dunno if you're going to appreciate the difference.

rsxr22
10-25-2010, 13:19
like many have said. The difference in price is significantly in fit. I have shot many semi customs and havent seen a difference in accuracy, but there is a large jump in fit.

mes228
10-26-2010, 06:05
There is a difference. The precision and feel is different. Most probably the reliability and accuracy will be greater (not 100% of the time). Between Custom/Semi-Custom the semi-customs give you "the most bang for your buck" in comparison to "full customs". I think out of the box function and accuracy is also superior to mass produced pistols (generally speaking). I have 2 semi-custom 1911's and a true "Custom" and have several thousand rounds though them collectively and not one 'burp" of any kind. All three are capable of hitting a squirrel in the head at 25 yards if YOU are capable of doing it. With most custom-semi custom pistols , you will be the weak link. I've had many pistols that I shot better than they did. This is not the case with those that I keep. Also, as I grow older I find I like aesthetics, quality, workmanship, ergo's, and function more and more. Half the fun of owning something is simply the enjoyment of the workmanship and care that went into it. Nothing against stock pistols though, I carry a cheap Glock 23 and like it too.

Spiffums
10-26-2010, 07:10
I always wondered if the guy on the receiving end could tell the difference in a custom and production 45.......... does a production just knock you down but a custom knocks you back and through the wall before it knocks you down?





I kid I kid

matt_lowry123
10-26-2010, 08:46
I always wondered if the guy on the receiving end could tell the difference in a custom and production 45.......... does a production just knock you down but a custom knocks you back and through the wall before it knocks you down?





I kid I kid



Hahahahaha!!! That's super funny!!!

.45Super-Man
10-26-2010, 11:49
I always wondered if the guy on the receiving end could tell the difference in a custom and production 45.......... does a production just knock you down but a custom knocks you back and through the wall before it knocks you down?





I kid I kid

When you see holes consistantly appearing in the exact place you meant to put them, there's going to be a difference on both ends. At both ends of the spectrum, I've shot a few 1911's that I wouldnt trust to hit a man size target at 50ft. and one custom that I'd trust to hit within 1/4 inch or so of POA at the same distance. There's something very reassuring with such a precision crafted instrument.

BlayGlock
10-26-2010, 13:01
Like any other mechanical device, there is a point of diminishing returns. Is a $1000 1911 going to be twice as good as a $500 1911? Yes, if you buy wisely. Is a $2000 1911 going to be twice as good as a $1000 1911? To me yes, but it will depend what you're looking for in a pistol.

I have a full custom by Ted Yost that would cost about $7000 to replicate. It is the nicest pistol I've ever owned, but the expense is in details and personalization that some people wouldn't notice or care about. I have $2000-$3000 1911's that are just as accurate and reliable. When you're really ready to start shopping, you need to define your needs and draw a list of priorities. Sometimes it's worth it to buy the best, and other times it's just throwing money into the wind. Only you can decide where that line falls for you.

I agree and this is why I have not bought a full house custom from a big name. I gravitated towards the semi-custom market, because yes they do shoot better for the most part in my hands after some time with them. However, I do not see my outshooting any of my semi-customs ever and see no reason to own a custom one from one of the big name guys.

brisk21
10-26-2010, 16:13
I wonder if there are any gunshops that would let you shoot a $3000 1911? Probably not! I would let them hold onto my TRP twice if they let me shoot a Wilson CQB Elite!!!!

rsxr22
10-26-2010, 16:29
highly doubt it unless one of the shop employees owned one and wanted to loan it to you. 2 of the 3 employees at my shop have Wilson's( Im the one that doesnt) have let customers take their Wilson out before or went shooting with them.

Tactical black
10-26-2010, 16:36
I wonder if there are any gunshops that would let you shoot a $3000 1911? Probably not! I would let them hold onto my TRP twice if they let me shoot a Wilson CQB Elite!!!!

There's a gun shop/range around here that has a few Nighthawks and Wilson 1911 rental guns you may have something like that in your area.

polizei1
10-26-2010, 16:44
There's a gun shop/range around here that has a few Nighthawks and Wilson 1911 rental guns you may have something like that in your area.

:faint: Mine only has Glocks! :steamed: You're lucky!

knedrgr
10-26-2010, 19:46
Notice a difference between my SA Mil-Spec and DW CCO. My CCO is not a semi-custom, but a nice production gun. I get better grouping from the CCO, which has a 4.25" barrel, than my full size Mil-Spec.

bac1023
10-26-2010, 19:49
:faint: Mine only has Glocks! :steamed: You're lucky!

Yeah, there aren't any shops around me that let you rent high end 1911s.

DrtyHarry
10-26-2010, 20:09
I wonder if there are any gunshops that would let you shoot a $3000 1911? Probably not! I would let them hold onto my TRP twice if they let me shoot a Wilson CQB Elite!!!!

I have yet to shoot a 1911 that outshoots my CQB Tactical LE. It's my EDC except in the summer. I was getting better groupings than I was with my brother's Supergrade. You will buy it if you shoot it, beware! :) I'm really thinking about the compact version.


DH

matt_lowry123
10-26-2010, 22:01
This might be a dumb question but is a valor semi custom? The only reason I ask is because they told me it uses all Ed brown parts.

Cerebrus
10-26-2010, 22:03
This might be a dumb question but is a valor semi custom? The only reason I ask is because they told me it uses all Ed brown parts.

Nope the Valor is a production gun, a really well put together production gun, but a production gun.

matt_lowry123
10-26-2010, 22:16
Nope the Valor is a production gun, a really well put together production gun, but a production gun.

Thanks for the info!!! Sorry if that was a dumb question

brisk21
10-26-2010, 22:19
I have yet to shoot a 1911 that outshoots my CQB Tactical LE. It's my EDC except in the summer. I was getting better groupings than I was with my brother's Supergrade. You will buy it if you shoot it, beware! :) I'm really thinking about the compact version.


DH


Well if I ever decide to drop that kind of cash on one, Im pretty sure I'll be getting a CQB Elite. Id be interested to compare one at the range side by side with my TRP. Kinda like a Mustang vs. Corvette.

DrtyHarry
10-26-2010, 23:21
Well if I ever decide to drop that kind of cash on one, Im pretty sure I'll be getting a CQB Elite. Id be interested to compare one at the range side by side with my TRP. Kinda like a Mustang vs. Corvette.

Beautiful pistol, I decided I wanted a rail on this one and the Tactical Elite is the only CQB variant that offers that option. Besides, Dell Fatti had a sweet IWB holster fitted for a full size 1911 w/rail. Had to jump on it. :)


DH

bac1023
10-27-2010, 04:21
This might be a dumb question but is a valor semi custom? The only reason I ask is because they told me it uses all Ed brown parts.

I look at them as production guns, but it really doesn't matter.

GVFlyer
10-27-2010, 08:56
Yeah, there aren't any shops around me that let you rent high end 1911s.

My range has a Wilson Combat and a few Kimbers. Here's a complete list of their rentals. I think it's a pretty good offering.

GLOCK



32 357SIG
21SF 45
35 40
21 45ACP
30 45ACP
23 40SW
22 40SW
27 40SW
19 9MM
34 9
17 9
26 9
30SF 45
36 45
22 GEN 4 40
17 GEN 4 9

SPRINGFIELD



M1911 GI 45
XDm40 40
XDm45 45
XDm9 9
XD9 9
XD9 SUB 9
XD9 TACTICAL 9
XD40 40
XD40 SUB 40
XD40 TACTICAL 40
XD45 45
XD45 COMPACT 45
XD45 TACTICAL 45
1911-A1 TRP 45
1911 A1 45
M1911 A1 LOADED 45
M1911 A1 9
EMP 40
EMP 9

SIG SAUER



P229 9
P250 DAO 9
P250 DAO 40
GSR 45
P226 9
P239 9
P226 40
P220R 45
P220C 45
P232SL 380
MOSQUITO 22LR
SIG 522 22
AR15 556

HECKLER & KOCH



P2000SK 40
USP COMPACT 40
USP 9
P30 9
P30 40
45C 45
P2000 40
P2000 9
45 45

PARA-ORD



CARRY 9 9
CARRY 45
WARTHOG 45
HAWG-9 9
SLIM HAWG 45
CCW 45
BIG HAWG 45
GUN RIGHTS 45
GI EXPERT 45
LTC 45

KAHR



CW 40 40
CW9 9
PM40 40
PM9 9
P40 40
P45 45
PM45 45
CW45 45
P9 9

JOHN B.



Old Man 22short

BERETTA



92FS VERTEC INOX 9
96 INOX 40
90-TWO 9
90-TWO 40
TOMCAT 32
84 FS CHEETAH 380
PX4 STORM 45
PX4 STORM 40
PX4 STORM 9
PX4 STORM SUB 9
NEOS 22
92 FS 9

RUGER



MKIII 22LR
MK III HUNTER 22LR
P345 45ACP
SR 9 9MM
P95 9MM
SP 101 357MAG
LCP 380
GP 100 357
LCR 38 +P
ALASKAN 454
SUP REDHAWK 44MAG
M-14 223
10/22 22LR
SR-556 556

FNH



FNP-40 40
5.7 5.7X28

KIMBER



ULTRA CARRY II STNLESS 45
PRO CARRY II SS 45
SUPER MATCH II 45
AEGIS II 9
GOLD MATCH II SS 45
RAPTOR II 45

NIGHTHAWK CUSTOM



GRP 1911 45

WALTHER



P22 w/LASER 22
P22 22
PPS 9

TAURUS



85 2″ 38 SPEC
PT 22 22
PT 1911 45
PT 145 PRO 45
PT 140 PRO 40
PT 111 PRO 9
PT 809 9
PT 709 9
PT 738 380
THE JUDGE 6.5″ 45C/410
THE JUDGE 2″ 45C/410
TRACKER 357 MAG
605 2″ 357 MAG
RAGING BULL 44MAG

SMITH & WESSON



686-6 F357MAG
60-15 3″ 357MAG
M&P 15-22 22
460 460
MP360 357
340PD 357
637-2 38
500 500
617-6 22LR

SMITH & WESSON



686-6 F357MAG
60-15 3″ 357MAG
M&P 15-22 22
460 460
MP360 357
340PD 357
637-2 38
500 500
617-6 22LR
629-5 44
686-6 357
22A-1 22LR
M&P40 40
60 PRO 357
MP40C 40
60 357
MP340 357
360PD 357
MP45 45
MP9C 9
686-6 357
MP9 9
642-2 38
317-3 22LR

CZ



75SP-01 PHANTOM 9
75B 9
SKORPION 32
75P-07 9
CZ-83 380
2075 RAMI 40
75P-01 9

THOMPSON



ENCORE 45/410

HERITAGE



ROUGH RIDER 22

BENLLI



M1 SUPER 90 12 GAUGE

MOSSBERG



500 12 GAUGE

DPMS



AR15 223

KRISS



CARBINE 45ACP

MICROTECH



AUG 223

HAIL CAESAR
10-27-2010, 09:40
GVFlyer,

That is some list for a normal range!

Lexcruiser
10-27-2010, 12:17
I'm still relatively new to 1911s and just picked up a Springfield TRP Operator.
Are the TRPs considered semi-customs?

deadite
10-27-2010, 12:33
My idea of expensive is probably less than what others think, but I'll give you my opinion.

The difference between shooting my Norinco or my Springfield GI is night and day different than shooting my Dan Wesson PM7. The fit and finish is fantastic compared to the lower end, entry level 1911's, the trigger is much better, and the materials used is way better. The match barrel that's on my DW makes my accuracy much better, too.

I would love to have a semi-custom or a custom 1911, but for the amount I shoot and my budget, the DW is all I'll ever need or want.

deadite

Nakanokalronin
10-27-2010, 12:45
The most expensive 1911 I've bought is $1200 which I think is quite a bit. I've seen $2000-$4000 1911s at my local shop and honestly I could never see any reason for spending that much. I would take one if it was free and then turn around and sell it immediately. $4000 for a handgun to me is an instant safe queen unless you got the big buck-a-roos to have a gun you don't care about getting scratched,dinged or worn than more power to ya. My $1200 1911 will get shot but never carried or used like my $400-$600 1911s will.

Spending excessive amounts (meaning $2000+) of money on a 1911 is just to say you have XX brand since in my experience the $400 1911s shoot just as well as the $2000+ 1911s and if I get a scratch here or there it don't bother me one bit.

Glockdude1
10-27-2010, 12:52
Thanks everybody for their input!! Maybe one of these days I'll be able to afford a semi custom!!

Cmon now, Matt Lowry, you drive a Ferrari, you can buy at least a dozen high end 1911's.
http://blog.newsok.com/gossip/files/2009/08/bad-boys-2.jpg

:supergrin:

Cerebrus
10-27-2010, 13:47
I'm still relatively new to 1911s and just picked up a Springfield TRP Operator.
Are the TRPs considered semi-customs?

Nope not semi custom either.. just a high end production gun.. wish I had one..

AZ Husker
10-27-2010, 15:21
$400 1911s shoot just as well as the $2000+ 1911s and if I get a scratch here or there it don't bother me one bit.

That is a ludicrous statement. Anyone who thinks this way has never had the opportunity to shoot an Ed Brown or Wilson Combat.

Quack
10-27-2010, 15:24
if you are shooting at <7yrds, most guns are comparable.
go out to longer distances, then you will see the difference.

Drjones
10-27-2010, 16:13
I'm still relatively new to 1911s and just picked up a Springfield TRP Operator.
Are the TRPs considered semi-customs?


I don't think so, but IMO, they are a far better value than almost any "semi-custom" on the market.

Nakanokalronin
10-27-2010, 16:15
That is a ludicrous statement. Anyone who thinks this way has never had the opportunity to shoot an Ed Brown or Wilson Combat.

Yep, on GT my opinions and personal experience seem ludicrous to some. I've owned many 1911s from quite a few brands. I've shot $2000+ guns others have owned that shot no better for me than a $600 1911 I personally own. Their not as pretty and maybe certain parts are not fit as precise but accuracy was the same. My local range owner had a Wilson Combat he let me shoot one time since he knew I was a 1911 fan. It was a great pistol and very accurate but it was not a shocking experience in accuracy in any form. I'd like to own a Wilson Combat, just to say I have a Wilson Combat.

I've never had any 1911 I've owned jam on me from round #1 and up but have seen people with $3000 1911s have them. Cost is not always a factor of reliability or accuracy but more to the lines of brand, a gunsmiths name, a finish or the hands on work involved.

I'm not saying that very expensive 1911s don't look beautiful and are probably works of art on the insides as well but in my experience the accuracy department has been on par with many lower end 1911s I've owned and shot. I have a $1200 Kimber which is the most expensive 1911 I've owned and Its hard for me to justify it since it shoots no better than my $500 Regent. I bought it because I like the Eclipse look and the front strap checkering. Like I said, I've shot $2000+ 1911s and since none of my guns are safe queens I see no reason to spend that kind of cash on one. I can take a basic frame and slide and stuff all the parts some custom maker would in there, fit them and it would still cost alot less than $2000-$4000 except it wouldn't have the name on the slide or the fact a famous gunsmith installed the parts for me. Working on 1911s myself saves me lots of cash. Maybe that's one advantage and the reason I don't see why I would pay lots of money for certain 1911s.

I'll bet I'd start some hair pulling arguments in the AR section if I told them my $700 Model 1 sales C.A.R I bought and assembled has never jammed nor had any problems with steel cased ammo in over 15,000 rounds now. People with $2000 ARs would probably tell me I'm a liar and I'm just talking smack. Acctually it was a $500 parts kit and a $100 lower. Nothing has ever been done to improve accuracy or performance, just accessories.

Drjones
10-27-2010, 16:51
Lots of good points here...one that may not have already been made:

When I decided to plunk down the cash for a Springfield Professional (or two) it was because it is, for all intents and purposes, and IMO, the best 1911 on the market.

I say that because, while the 1911 is one of the oldest handgun designs and has been thoroughly wrung out, no other specific 1911 has been as wrung out as the Professional. The series of tests that Springfield's 1911 had to pass in order to win the FBI contract for 1911s is well documented and pretty impressive.

Each Professional isn't just another gun - it's built with the specific purpose of going to the FBI's HRT or regional SWAT teams - it has to be perfect.

Go look for problems and complaints about the Professional - the only problems you will find is about the lack of supply because they are so hard to come by!

One other point to consider when spending the money on a gun is the warranty. You don't have to spend almost $3K on a Pro to get the same world-class warranty and service that applies to all Springfield guns, however.

bac1023
10-27-2010, 18:46
The most expensive 1911 I've bought is $1200 which I think is quite a bit. I've seen $2000-$4000 1911s at my local shop and honestly I could never see any reason for spending that much. I would take one if it was free and then turn around and sell it immediately. $4000 for a handgun to me is an instant safe queen unless you got the big buck-a-roos to have a gun you don't care about getting scratched,dinged or worn than more power to ya. My $1200 1911 will get shot but never carried or used like my $400-$600 1911s will.

Spending excessive amounts (meaning $2000+) of money on a 1911 is just to say you have XX brand since in my experience the $400 1911s shoot just as well as the $2000+ 1911s and if I get a scratch here or there it don't bother me one bit.

Uh, you need a bit more experience with the high end models.

This post is laughable, in my opinion.

pistolwrench
10-27-2010, 18:57
High end custom 1911's are VERY MUCH like high end automobiles.
When I open the door and take a seat in my Bentley Sports Coupe,
it just feels of QUALITY.
Will I use all 575 horsepower driving to the Taco Bell? Probably not.
But I will look cool even going slow, and I will be comfortable.

Hokie1911
10-27-2010, 18:59
Uh, you need a bit more experience with the high end models.

This post is laughable, in my opinion.

He may be onto something here. Hmmmm I should just skip my Brown, save $2,000 and get a RIA which is just as good. :rofl:

Hokie1911
10-27-2010, 19:02
High end custom 1911's are VERY MUCH like high end automobiles.
When I open the door and take a seat in my Bentley Sports Coupe,
it just feels of QUALITY.
Will I use all 575 horsepower driving to the Taco Bell? Probably not.
But I will look cool even going slow, and I will be comfortable.

So that's where the coin from all those Rogers Precision pistols goes......martinis and high end British performance coupes. :whistling:

knedrgr
10-27-2010, 19:05
So that's where the coin from all those Rogers Precision pistols goes......martinis and high end British performance coupes. :whistling:

yeah, but he can only afford to eat at Taco Bell. :rofl:

ctfireman
10-27-2010, 20:30
I'll let you know once i actually get an expensive 1911.......tax refund time is rapidly approaching!

bac1023
10-27-2010, 20:40
So that's where the coin from all those Rogers Precision pistols goes......martinis and high end British performance coupes. :whistling:

:rofl::rofl:

matt_lowry123
10-27-2010, 20:58
Cmon now, Matt Lowry, you drive a Ferrari, you can buy at least a dozen high end 1911's.
http://blog.newsok.com/gossip/files/2009/08/bad-boys-2.jpg

:supergrin:


Hahahahaha that was my old life!!! Now that I have a new born and a girl friend that has two kids of her own I don't see myself buying any expensive guns in the near future!!! Maybe if her broke ass ex husband would pay child support then it might be game on for expensive guns!!

matt_lowry123
10-27-2010, 21:01
I'll just have to pretend that my valors are semi custom and my trp is as good as the professional!! I'll have to buy a few high points so I can appreciate what I have!!!

Hokie1911
10-27-2010, 21:25
I'll just have to pretend that my valors are semi custom and my trp is as good as the professional!! I'll have to buy a few high points so I can appreciate what I have!!!

There are far worse things in life than "settling" for a Valor and TRP. :whistling:

matt_lowry123
10-27-2010, 21:41
There are far worse things in life than "settling" for a Valor and TRP. :whistling:

:rofl: like a glock!!!

I'm kidding!!

matt_lowry123
10-27-2010, 21:43
The good news is my guns came in plastic cases and not a card board box!!

Haha

Hokie1911
10-27-2010, 22:02
The good news is my guns came in plastic cases and not a card board box!!

Haha

Those damn cardboard boxes aren't cheap. :rofl:

matt_lowry123
10-27-2010, 22:22
Those damn cardboard boxes aren't cheap. :rofl:


Hahaha right you are my friend!!! I hope I can get a piece of that card board one of these days!!!

Quack
10-27-2010, 22:24
My expensive gun came in a cardboard box...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Quackzilla/Guns/DSC_0312.jpg

Nakanokalronin
10-28-2010, 01:50
You guys are funny. :rofl:

Laugh all you want. I laugh when someone complains their $3000 Wilson Combat has jammed on them weather it be 100rds in or 2000rds in. Never had a 1911 of mine jam period. Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it.

Frames and slides are not much different than each other from one manufacture to another and any high end part can be added quite easily. Don't call my posts laughable and BS just to justify high dollar spending. I'm not some GT troll. Maybe I need 50,000 posts to be believed? :upeyes:

I'd like to own a Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown or Wilson combat but I sure as hell ain't going to pay for one when I see no advantage since I can make my own much cheaper with the same internals and fit. I didn't include finish as an option since I don't care about it when it comes to a working gun since like I said, I don't have safe queens.

bac1023
10-28-2010, 04:38
Frames and slides are not much different than each other from one manufacture to another and any high end part can be added quite easily. Don't call my posts laughable and BS just to justify high dollar spending. I'm not some GT troll. Maybe I need 50,000 posts to be believed? :upeyes:



Yeah, come back when you get there. :whistling:

bac1023
10-28-2010, 05:02
I'd like to own a Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown or Wilson combat but I sure as hell ain't going to pay for one when I see no advantage since I can make my own much cheaper with the same internals and fit.

So...that Taurus has the same internals and fitting as a Wilson or Nighthawk? :dunno:

GVFlyer
10-28-2010, 06:04
:rofl:
... Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it...



http://www.hobotraveler.com/blogphotos01/207-517-do-not-feed-troll.jpg

bac1023
10-28-2010, 06:17
Amen to that :cool:

PhoneCop
10-28-2010, 06:25
Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day.

Only if it hit the target once and missed with the rest.

drc767
10-28-2010, 06:32
You guys are funny. :rofl:

Laugh all you want. I laugh when someone complains their $3000 Wilson Combat has jammed on them weather it be 100rds in or 2000rds in. Never had a 1911 of mine jam period. Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it.

Frames and slides are not much different than each other from one manufacture to another and any high end part can be added quite easily. Don't call my posts laughable and BS just to justify high dollar spending. I'm not some GT troll. Maybe I need 50,000 posts to be believed? :upeyes:

I'd like to own a Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown or Wilson combat but I sure as hell ain't going to pay for one when I see no advantage since I can make my own much cheaper with the same internals and fit. I didn't include finish as an option since I don't care about it when it comes to a working gun since like I said, I don't have safe queens.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt......No advantage in a NHC, EB or Wilson over a Taurus?? Dude, you need to lay off the sauce....

GVFlyer
10-28-2010, 06:35
...or hallucinogenics.

knedrgr
10-28-2010, 06:56
The good news is my guns came in plastic cases and not a card board box!!

Haha

At least Baer is trying to save the planet with the cardboard box. :rofl:

carguy2244
10-28-2010, 07:34
You guys are funny. :rofl:

Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it.



See, here's the thing about lies. A Taurus 1911 is no more mechanically capable of shooting a single 45 caliber hole with 25 rounds at 25 yards than you are of racing down range and beating the bullet to the back stop. IT IS NOT MECHANICALLY possible, get it? This isn't the kind of lie that "well...nobody saw me NOT do it, so nobody can prove it's bull." Get it? No gun will shoot that way, GET IT?
See, if you'd have said it shot 1000s of rounds without a jam, that could be possible.
If you said you put all the shots in the 10 ring, that could be possible (however unlikely).
But your story is impossible. And it makes everything else you said, like fitting your own parts, etc., lack any credibility.
I'll tell you what I tell my subordinates at work. If you're going to lie, take some time, give it some thought, and make it credible.
Sheeeesh...amateurs.

matt_lowry123
10-28-2010, 07:53
See, here's the thing about lies. A Taurus 1911 is no more mechanically capable of shooting a single 45 caliber hole with 25 rounds at 25 yards than you are of racing down range and beating the bullet to the back stop. IT IS NOT MECHANICALLY possible, get it? This isn't the kind of lie that "well...nobody saw me NOT do it, so nobody can prove it's bull." Get it? No gun will shoot that way, GET IT?
See, if you'd have said it shot 1000s of rounds without a jam, that could be possible.
If you said you put all the shots in the 10 ring, that could be possible (however unlikely).
But your story is impossible. And it makes everything else you said, like fitting your own parts, etc., lack any credibility.
I'll tell you what I tell my suborinates at work. If you're going to lie, take some time, give it some thought, and make it credible.
Sheeeesh...amateurs.




Hahahahaha that's super funny!!!!

GJ1981
10-28-2010, 08:04
Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it.


http://i53.tinypic.com/ehjg5u.gif

bac1023
10-28-2010, 08:04
Denial is not just a river in Egypt......No advantage in a NHC, EB or Wilson over a Taurus?? Dude, you need to lay off the sauce....

...or the bong :whistling:

bac1023
10-28-2010, 08:06
Only if it hit the target once and missed with the rest.

Absolutely.

It was a one round group, not a 25 round group. :animlol:

matt_lowry123
10-28-2010, 08:25
Hahahaha this is cracking me up!!! The thing with stone cold is super funny!!!! Bac the one shot remark is making me laugh!!! I love reading everybody's remarks!!!

The stone cold laughing is too funny!!!

MD357
10-28-2010, 10:16
You guys are funny. :rofl:

Laugh all you want. I laugh when someone complains their $3000 Wilson Combat has jammed on them weather it be 100rds in or 2000rds in. Never had a 1911 of mine jam period. Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it.

Frames and slides are not much different than each other from one manufacture to another and any high end part can be added quite easily. Don't call my posts laughable and BS just to justify high dollar spending. I'm not some GT troll. Maybe I need 50,000 posts to be believed? :upeyes:

I'd like to own a Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown or Wilson combat but I sure as hell ain't going to pay for one when I see no advantage since I can make my own much cheaper with the same internals and fit. I didn't include finish as an option since I don't care about it when it comes to a working gun since like I said, I don't have safe queens.

No, you just need to say something credible. However, if you say you can build a 1911 of the same quality as Wilson for much cheaper then by all means.... post your work.

thecableguy
10-28-2010, 11:15
You guys are funny. :rofl:

Laugh all you want. I laugh when someone complains their $3000 Wilson Combat has jammed on them weather it be 100rds in or 2000rds in. Never had a 1911 of mine jam period. Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it.

Frames and slides are not much different than each other from one manufacture to another and any high end part can be added quite easily. Don't call my posts laughable and BS just to justify high dollar spending. I'm not some GT troll. Maybe I need 50,000 posts to be believed? :upeyes:

I'd like to own a Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown or Wilson combat but I sure as hell ain't going to pay for one when I see no advantage since I can make my own much cheaper with the same internals and fit. I didn't include finish as an option since I don't care about it when it comes to a working gun since like I said, I don't have safe queens.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR039obAaotnODrWM2yjShINap00pRFHCQApieMN1ez75jJxOo&t=1&usg=__6f0uvG6MJwKeGtuoXGDq-WjAE0c=

Nakanokalronin
10-28-2010, 11:15
You guys just can't see what I'm talking about obviously. :upeyes:

Let me try to explain it so it can be understood.....

Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Ok, this means I owned a Taurus PT1911AR. It shot one ragged hole groups at 25 yards with all the holes touching in about a 2in diameter circle. One hole means all the round where touching each other. No where do you see that I say a Taurus is of higher quality than a WC, NHC or any other very very expensive 1911. It did shoot just as tight groups as I've done with a very very expensive 1911 and have seen others do with very very expensive 1911s

Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it. After explaining about the Taurus I owned (one of about 15 total 1911s I've owned with about 7 different brands in the mix) I proceed to say that if someone can show me a very very expensive 1911 shoot BETTER groups like one single solitary 45 caliber hole at 25 yards than I will believe a down payment on a car or money saved up for a house is worth it. In my experience it is not. I am not talking $1000 high end production guns. I'm talking about these custom guns people spend lots of money on.

I laugh when someone complains their $3000 Wilson Combat has jammed on them weather it be 100rds in or 2000rds in. Never had a 1911 of mine jam period.I'm hoping this is self explanatory. If not, well thats not my problem.

I'd like to own a Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown or Wilson combat but I sure as hell ain't going to pay for one when I see no advantage since I can make my own much cheaper with the same internals and fit. I didn't include finish as an option since I don't care about it when it comes to a working gun since like I said, I don't have safe queens. Can everyone see the words? Can you read that I'd like one of those guns but can't justify the money for one? Do you see me saying a Taurus is better than any of them? The one single example I used on purpose because I know Taurus is beat on the most as crap 1911s. Do I think higher end guns have better internals and fit? Sure as hell do! Did my PT1911AR shoot as accurate as a WC I shot, sure as hell did and its not the only one!

Everyone get it? I get the posts here. Its the typical, one guy says a gun is not worth it, hits the nerve of people that justified the purchase so its like a "gang up on the one guy because we either own or want to own the guns in question and your an idiot to do anything but bow at their perfect design and quality and how dare you compare them to anything costing 1/3 as much." It would be easier for you to understand if you worked on many 1911s yourselves, fitting parts and knowing how truly simple building a 1911 is. Once you understand exactly how everything works and you can tune your 1911 in any way shape or form than a high end custom 1911 is not worth it in the slightest.

1911s are the most hated and most loved pistols and both side are very passionate about their views. The custom super high dollar 1911s are nice. In my experience....wait let me repeat that...In my experience...got it? In my experience they shoot no better than much less expensive pistols I've owned and I've owned quite a few sub $700 1911s and a few $1000+ 1911s. To me they are not worth it especially....oh here we go.....when I can install and fit any part myself. Yes I've installed many parts in my 1911s. I don't refinish guns or make them nice and shiny I make them function well, thats it. I don't have safe queens. I don't need any gunsmith or warranty for my 1911s.

My Regent and RIA compact are my 2 cheapest 1911s. The RIA is bone stock except for the grips and the Regent has all of its internals changed out except the barrel since there is no reason IMO on this model.I'll take them to the range this weekend and bring back the targets of both. Now I'll sit back and I'll see how this post is picked apart, misunderstood and scoffed at. GT members are known for name calling so I'll be waiting for that childish bombardment as well.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/popcorn.gif

drc767
10-28-2010, 11:25
In my experience....wait let me repeat that...In my experience...got it?

What would you consider a "very, very expensive" 1911?? I don't think Wilson, Nighthawk or Ed Brown fall anywhere near that neighborhood.....Based on your observations, you should probably seek some more experience......

Nakanokalronin
10-28-2010, 11:42
What would you consider a "very, very expensive" 1911?? I don't think Wilson, Nighthawk or Ed Brown fall anywhere near that neighborhood.....Based on your observations, you should probably seek some more experience......


Check out this: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/calibers/45-acp/larry-vickers-1911/

I can appreciated all that work done to that pistol. It takes a long time to do and is a tedious task. Its all about blending the parts together so they fit like they are made for each other. See the tools used? Files, stones and grinders. Have I done my own custom work, yes. My experience is in building and fitting parts myself. No need for any smith to do it and defiantly not worth the cost to me in the slightest. People should try and study, fit and install their own 1911 parts and do anything they want themselves. It proves to be more eye opening than most realize. You can then understand and start to think differently about high end and low end 1911s.

drc767
10-28-2010, 11:47
Check out this: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/calibers/45-acp/larry-vickers-1911/

I can appreciated all that work done to that pistol. It takes a long time to do and is a tedious task. Its all about blending the parts together so they fit like they are made for each other. See the tools used? Files, stones and grinders. Have I done my own custom work, yes. My experience is in building and fitting parts myself. No need for any smith to do it and defiantly not worth the cost to me in the slightest.


I am a Master Dealer for Wilson and have personally been to their facility. I am very aware how they build pistols.....If you put yourself in the league of their smiths and capabilities, you really are kidding yourself.

knedrgr
10-28-2010, 11:49
:popcorn: better than watching TV.

Hokie1911
10-28-2010, 11:57
:popcorn: better than watching TV.

Yeah, no kidding. :rofl:

HAIL CAESAR
10-28-2010, 11:59
I had a first run PT1911 that was very accurate and reliable.
Then parts started breaking.

Doesn't get away from the fact the gun was a turd with inferior parts and workmanship. Which is basically the whole Taurus lineup.
To compare it with a decent 1911 even of $1,000 is ludicrous. When comparing it to even higher guns is asinine.

And I had one of the first PT1911's to hit the shore, from what I have seen the ones after that were atrocious.

HAIL CAESAR
10-28-2010, 12:01
Now if you took the Taurus and had a file and some sandpaper you would have a gun better than any custom maker could ever dream of making.




















:whistling:

Nakanokalronin
10-28-2010, 12:04
Any of you FIT and install your own parts on any 1911 you own? Not talking grips and recoil plugs. I'm talking all of the internals including frame to slide fit.

Oh yea, Now it you took the Taurus and had a file and some sandpaper you would have a gun better than any custom maker could ever dream of making. Thanks for taking my words out of context again. Good job!

ETA: BTW, do you think these high end smiths use magic tools when making a gun? They use stones, grinders and files. It all about paying attention to detail and slowly going back and forth with the part until a perfect fit is accomplished. Its even easier when using purpose made jigs.

Hokie1911
10-28-2010, 12:10
I had a first run PT1911 that was very accurate and reliable.
Then parts started breaking.

Doesn't get away from the fact the gun was a turd with inferior parts and workmanship. Which is basically the whole Taurus lineup.
To compare it with a decent 1911 even of $1,000 is ludicrous. When comparing it to even higher guns is asinine.

And I had one of the first PT1911's to hit the shore, from what I have seen the ones after that were atrocious.

Apparently, Taurus has proven that you can in fact polish a turd...and give it gold BLING BLING controls. :whistling:

HAIL CAESAR
10-28-2010, 12:11
Any of you FIT and install your own parts on any 1911 you own? Not talking grips and recoil plugs. I'm talking all of the internals including frame to slide fit.

Oh yea, Thanks for taking my words out of context again. Good job!

Ah...yeah...a bunch of them.

And that last crack wasn't meant for you. It's a old joke on a poser named PlaywithPenguins. Wasn't even meant for you and never had you in mind when I wrote it.

Hokie1911
10-28-2010, 12:16
Ah...yeah...a bunch of them.

And that last crack wasn't meant for you. It's a old joke on a poser named PlaywithPenguins. Wasn't even meant for you and never had you in mind when I wrote it.

Ahhhhhhhhhh yes, Penguin's Custom Shop. That was a GREAT thread. He is a true artisan. :rofl:

bac1023
10-28-2010, 12:23
Check out this: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/calibers/45-acp/larry-vickers-1911/

I can appreciated all that work done to that pistol. It takes a long time to do and is a tedious task. Its all about blending the parts together so they fit like they are made for each other. See the tools used? Files, stones and grinders. Have I done my own custom work, yes. My experience is in building and fitting parts myself. No need for any smith to do it and defiantly not worth the cost to me in the slightest. People should try and study, fit and install their own 1911 parts and do anything they want themselves. It proves to be more eye opening than most realize. You can then understand and start to think differently about high end and low end 1911s.

Are you putting youself in the same light as Wilson's Super Grade smiths?

bac1023
10-28-2010, 12:24
I had a first run PT1911 that was very accurate and reliable.
Then parts started breaking.

Doesn't get away from the fact the gun was a turd with inferior parts and workmanship. Which is basically the whole Taurus lineup.
To compare it with a decent 1911 even of $1,000 is ludicrous. When comparing it to even higher guns is asinine.

And I had one of the first PT1911's to hit the shore, from what I have seen the ones after that were atrocious.
Well said, Alan.

Nakanokalronin
10-28-2010, 12:34
Are you putting youself in the same light as Wilson's Super Grade smiths?

No. I work on my pistols and a few friends pistols. I'm not getting paid money to make sure that the front of the barrel it beveled and flush with the bushing to improve the look. I don't finish my gun to a mirror shine or polish parts just so they reflect light. I see alot of the work is about the look of the pistol. When you get down to the work that is actually done for function then its just about taking your time and blending parts together to work like they where cut from one mold.

Custom makers use jigs and tools like everyone else. They take their time like everyone else. They get paid more because they got their name out there so in order to go the distance, parts need to be flush with each other like the MSH to the bottom of the frame, extractor to the rear of the slide and the front end of the barrel to the bushing for example. Then after all that the finish on the parts have to stand out weather it be polished, mirror like bluing or a tough coat type of finish. When you take all the true cosmetic details out the fit of the internals is what really matters and makes or breaks the guns accuracy and reliability and is done by using quality parts and taking your time. You do need to have the ability to do such things in the first place weather it be mechanically inclined from the get go or lots of trial by error. You can go to a gunsmithing school but many never have.

HAIL CAESAR
10-28-2010, 12:40
Ah...yeah...a bunch of them.



And to clarify myself. I meant building whole guns from scratch, not glorifying parts swapping.

I will start on a personal 10mm CCO hopefully next month.

It ain't easy at all (to do right), or I'd be doing it for a living. To call it easy shows how little is actually known. And is an insult to the real professionals.

It is fairly easy to drop parts in like most of the run of the mill production guns. But does contribute to why a lot of these production guns have issues straight out of the factory.

Nakanokalronin
10-28-2010, 12:54
And to clarify myself. I meant building whole guns from scratch, not glorifying parts swapping.

I will start on a personal 10mm CCO hopefully next month.

It ain't easy at all (to do right), or I'd be doing it for a living. To call it easy shows how little is actually known. And is an insult to the real professionals.

It is fairly easy to drop parts in like most of the run of the mill production guns. But does contribute to why a lot of these production guns have issues straight out of the factory.

Not saying its easy. I know it takes time, patience and skill to do so. To go above just functional work is above what I and most want to do. I'm looking for a source myself at the moment for slides and frames. If you have any good sources I'd appreciate it. I've seen quite a few but I would like some options before I go and buy 4-5 sets.

I was thinking about getting a few from different makers like Fusion, Caspian and the like. I honestly wouldn't mind 4-5 different sources ranging from what would be considered low end to high end frame and slides.

HAIL CAESAR
10-28-2010, 13:25
I'm looking for a source myself at the moment for slides and frames. If you have any good sources I'd appreciate it. I've seen quite a few but I would like some options before I go and buy 4-5 sets.

I was thinking about getting a few from different makers like Fusion, Caspian and the like. I honestly wouldn't mind 4-5 different sources ranging from what would be considered low end to high end frame and slides.

If you want "Fusion" slide and frames just skip Fusion and get the S/F from who they get theirs through..REMSPORT..and save yourself some cash by not buying a "Fusion" rebagged F/S.. They had a fitted S/F combo's for $300 dollars recently and I think they have some left.

Caspian is another excellent choice.

Baers are great. Be prepared although as everything is over/under sized. Lots of work.

Wilson is now selling frames and slides. I haven't used any, but I'm sure they are excellent.

STI sells them too.


Have you ever done this before?

MD357
10-28-2010, 13:40
Nana, everything you've said so far screams wannabe. You first say all the internals are the same, that you can build something of similar fit, then you talk about the substance of custom makers being cosmetic. I honestly don't know where to start. I'd still like to see some pics of your work.

FWIW, a friend of mine had 80K+ rounds through his CQB. He replaced the barrel at 80K because he wasn't making PF, but had no signficant loss in accuracy. The gun still felt like it was on ball bearings and had the stock internals except for the extractor. I have no doubt a Brown, Baer, or Nighthawk would do the same but I'd be leary of a Taurus after 5-10K.

GVFlyer
10-28-2010, 14:02
You guys just can't see what I'm talking about obviously. :upeyes:

Let me try to explain it so it can be understood.....

Ok, this means I owned a Taurus PT1911AR. It shot one ragged hole groups at 25 yards with all the holes touching in about a 2in diameter circle. One hole means all the round where touching each other. No where do you see that I say a Taurus is of higher quality than a WC, NHC or any other very very expensive 1911. It did shoot just as tight groups as I've done with a very very expensive 1911 and have seen others do with very very expensive 1911s



I understood it well enough - quoted below is what you originally posted at 02:50 AM, before you edited it to support your above statement.



Even a Taurus PT1911AR I had at one point shot a one hole group using 25 rounds in a row easily at 25 yards all day. Show me a $4000 1911 that can shoot the same amount of rounds in the same distance but only have a 45 caliber hole and I'll start to believe paying an extra $3000 for a 1911 is worth it..

matt_lowry123
10-28-2010, 14:36
On myth busters they did polish a turd!!!

bac1023
10-28-2010, 14:54
FWIW, a friend of mine had 80K+ rounds through his CQB. He replaced the barrel at 80K because he wasn't making PF, but had no signficant loss in accuracy. The gun still felt like it was on ball bearings and had the stock internals except for the extractor. I have no doubt a Brown, Baer, or Nighthawk would do the same but I'd be leary of a Taurus after 5-10K.

That is impressive.

You probably wouldn't see a Taurus last a quarter of that amount without parts replacement.

Hokie1911
10-28-2010, 15:11
On myth busters they did polish a turd!!!

I don't know which is more disturbing...the fact that they did that or that you know about it. :shakehead:

Hokie1911
10-28-2010, 15:14
That is impressive.

You probably wouldn't see a Taurus last a quarter of that amount without parts replacement.

Brian, I think you are missing the obvious point. The Taurus tells you when parts replacement is required. When something falls off, you replace it. :rofl:

bac1023
10-28-2010, 18:01
Brian, I think you are missing the obvious point. The Taurus tells you when parts replacement is required. When something falls off, you replace it. :rofl:

:animlol:

matt_lowry123
10-28-2010, 18:26
I'm sure this would be a huge waste of money but could you send in a RIA, Taurus, or whatever low end 1911 you want to name off to a custom shop like Wilson, Springfield and would they work on it? Like turning a RIA into a Springfield TRP pro?

matt_lowry123
10-28-2010, 18:28
I don't know which is more disturbing...the fact that they did that or that you know about it. :shakehead:

Hahaha sorry for watching discovery channel. They do some cool stuff sometimes, like shooting guns into water to see what happens.

PlasticGuy
10-28-2010, 19:27
I'm sure this would be a huge waste of money but could you send in a RIA, Taurus, or whatever low end 1911 you want to name off to a custom shop like Wilson, Springfield and would they work on it? Like turning a RIA into a Springfield TRP pro?
Usually, yes. If the frame and slide are forged steel, a sufficiently talented 1911 builder can turn it into almost anything. The best quality firearm I own started life as a loosely fitted box-stock Colt 1911. A trip to Ted Yost and it's as close to perfect as human hands can create. It took a lot of welding and re-cutting, lots of aftermarket parts, lots of hand fitting, and the hands of a true artist. Well, that plus several months nearly $6000. But it can be done if you have the patience and the money.

The forged frame and slide are necessary though. A 1911 like an RIA would not be suitable because of the cast frame.

bac1023
10-28-2010, 19:45
I'm sure this would be a huge waste of money but could you send in a RIA, Taurus, or whatever low end 1911 you want to name off to a custom shop like Wilson, Springfield and would they work on it? Like turning a RIA into a Springfield TRP pro?

Shops are selective as to which guns they will work on. In fact, I believe Springfield Custom only works on Springfields.

I doubt any of them will do work on an RIA or Taurus. There may be custom smiths that will work on them, but not the large shops.

PlasticGuy
10-28-2010, 19:54
...I doubt any of them will do work on an RIA or Taurus. There may be custom smiths that will work on them, but not the large shops.
And for good reason. You can spend $50,000 building a Pinto into a car that will beat a Corvette off the line, but at the end of the day it is still just a really fast Pinto.

bac1023
10-28-2010, 19:57
Norinco 1911s are actually preferred by many custom smiths, due to their superior quality forged steel from old railroads.

Quack
10-28-2010, 20:53
I don't know which is more disturbing...the fact that they did that or that you know about it. :shakehead:



"you can't polish a turd"

yes you can :tongueout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

:rofl:

Quack
10-28-2010, 20:55
Shops are selective as to which guns they will work on. In fact, I believe Springfield Custom only works on Springfields.

I doubt any of them will do work on an RIA or Taurus. There may be custom smiths that will work on them, but not the large shops.

Springfield works on other guns.

matt_lowry123
10-28-2010, 21:22
Maybe I should send in my trp and get some work done to it. I don't have a RIA or a taurus but I wouldn't mind getting some stuff done to it. I'm pretty much ignorant when it comes to 1911's. If you had the extra money would you send it in or just keep it as is? Hahaha you're right about the cars!!! I have a vette and everybody and their brother has a faster car that's a pos. In reality their mustangs and camaros aren't as fast. Maybe off the line but I can do 185 while they're stuck at 160.

bac1023
10-29-2010, 04:16
Springfield works on other guns.

Very cool. I thought at one point they didn't, but I'm not sure. :dunno:

Tactical black
10-29-2010, 13:19
Very cool. I thought at one point they didn't, but I'm not sure. :dunno:

I just saw a picture of a Dan Wesson the other day they had done a fair amount of work on...

BuckyP
10-29-2010, 13:33
Up until recently, I only had each end of the spectrum, off the shelf guns and full blown custom. (Usually the later began life as the former). Between the two, there are worlds of difference. Now I have an Ed Brown and my own build, and I can (anticlimactically) state, they fall somewhere between the two. :dunno:

Aside from accuracy, the fitting on a good custom build is extraordinary. The ability of the gun to be so tight, yet have the action cycle so effortlessly (like the slide is on bearings) is what sets them apart from me. I can feel this in the cycling of the gun during recoil.

TonyT
10-31-2010, 15:22
I have found the Dan Wesson Pointman series to provide excellent slide frame fit, with superb triggers right out of the box and excllent accuarcy. The STI Trojan series is also worth considereing. The two Springfield I had, 45 ACP Trohphy Match and 9mm Target came with horrible factory trigers which required replacement of trigger, sear and disconnector. The Trophy Match proved to be quite accurate after the additional investment while the 9mm Target wou;ld never group better than 4 inches at 50 ft. In contrast the Dan Wesson PM-9 produces one inch groups at that distance. I believe it conforms to the old maxim of "you get what you pay for".

deadite
10-31-2010, 18:15
I have found the Dan Wesson Pointman series to provide excellent slide frame fit, with superb triggers right out of the box and excellent accuracy.

+1, that's been my experience. :)

deadite

Johan Beer
10-31-2010, 19:38
My first 1911, an STI Trojan was a great gun. I really couldn't imagine what a $3000 1911 could offer that would be so much better.

Then I got a Wilson CQB with all forged and machined parts, and now I understand. There really is no comparison.

Is there a difference? Yes, there is.