.380 compared to .9mm [Archive] - Glock Talk

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EL_NinO619
10-25-2010, 20:55
XDRoX was kind enough to give me 50 9mm to go shooting today. Its the ones where he did 300 in 30min or something like that. Well as i am shooting and have a miss fire. Thinking his speed turned into a lack of quality, so i return his one bullet (so he only gave me 49). We pull it to see if Mr. Perfect missed a powder charge. Nope there was powder. But after further inspection he yells at me "this is not my bullet its a .380 auto." well that's what you gave me. So we where both confused on how this happened are .380 and 9mm pretty much the same. I think it did not fire because it was not fully against the bolt face so the firing pin did not pierce it enough (then again i do not know what i am talking about). So everyone Chris can add .380 auto to his signature.:rofl::rofl::faint:

docholliday1
10-25-2010, 20:58
I have seen a .380 fired out of a Glock 26 9mm. Nothing happened but u could hear the diff.

GioaJack
10-25-2010, 21:03
Another name for .380 is 9mm Kurz, which literally translates to 9mm 'short'. Very easy to get the two cases confused.

(Especially a couple of rookies. :whistling: Don't worry, you'll learn, it takes a while.)


Jack

EL_NinO619
10-25-2010, 21:07
Why did it not fire? Using a Ruger P95

GioaJack
10-25-2010, 21:11
If the extractor didn't hold it against the breech face it was too short to headspace in the barrel. Don't know anything about a Ruger P95 so I can't help you there.


Jack

XDRoX
10-25-2010, 21:52
:popcorn:
Check out my new sig.

fredj338
10-25-2010, 22:28
If the extractor didn't hold it against the breech face it was too short to headspace in the barrel. Don't know anything about a Ruger P95 so I can't help you there.


Jack
Correct. The 9mm & 380 share the same bullet dia, but not much else, shorter, tapered case, smaller case head. I hate having to sort them out of my range pickups.:crying:

BK63
10-26-2010, 06:00
380 is a shortened 9, 40 is a shortened 10, 38 is a shortened 357 and so on. Case is shorter, diameter is the same. The load data is definately different though. I found a couple boxes of speer 95 grain 9mm tips in my cabinet. I don't own a 9. I did years ago but not anymore. I loaded them all in my 380 casings and they shot great.

Colorado4Wheel
10-26-2010, 07:07
I have fired a 9mm out of my 10mm. It must have been held under extractor so it could be fired. I still have it. Balloned up to .40 size on the end.


380 is a shortened 9, 40 is a shortened 10, 38 is a shortened 357 and so on. Case is shorter, diameter is the same. The load data is definately different though. I found a couple boxes of speer 95 grain 9mm tips in my cabinet. I don't own a 9. I did years ago but not anymore. I loaded them all in my 380 casings and they shot great.

.380 case is much different in diameter then the 9mm.

BK63
10-26-2010, 07:12
I was referring to the bullet diameter. The longer cases of course have some heavier bullets also.

ron59
10-26-2010, 07:20
Before I started pre-sorting my tumbled brass (to eliminate undesired headstamps as well as to separate out .380), I'd accidentally put a piece of .380 brass in my 550B while loading 9mm.

It would resize, but it would never prime? Either it's a different shellplate, or different pins are used... but the case would always move out of the way. Not sure how he was able to do that, he's using a 550B also, isn't he?

Colorado4Wheel
10-26-2010, 07:28
550 Uses a different shellplate for the .380 then the 9mm. But if things lined up perfect it could prime. Biggest thing is the .380 case is so much smaller in diameter then the 9mm that it doesn't size at all. When I hit a 380 case while loading 9mm the handle slams downs so fast it's impossible to not notice that the case was not getting sized.

XDRoX
10-26-2010, 08:00
Before I started pre-sorting my tumbled brass (to eliminate undesired headstamps as well as to separate out .380), I'd accidentally put a piece of .380 brass in my 550B while loading 9mm.

It would resize, but it would never prime? Either it's a different shellplate, or different pins are used... but the case would always move out of the way. Not sure how he was able to do that, he's using a 550B also, isn't he?

550 Uses a different shellplate for the .380 then the 9mm. But if things lined up perfect it could prime. Biggest thing is the .380 case is so much smaller in diameter then the 9mm that it doesn't size at all. When I hit a 380 case while loading 9mm the handle slams downs so fast it's impossible to not notice that the case was not getting sized.

I am on a 550b. Like Steve said, it probably just lined up perfect because I definitely loaded it on my 550b. There probably was a change in pull, but I didn't notice. I was loading a mix of brass from once fired to 20+ times fired. A few were even already sized. Some of them are really hard to size while others are like butter, which is probably why I didn't notice. I don't case lube BTW.

I will do a better job sorting from now on. Every now and then I pick up a 32 auto and almost put it in the press, but I can feel the size difference with my fingers. I really just need to sit down and go through my 9mm brass, but it's in the thousands. I bet there are a few 9mmMAK in there also.

ron59
10-26-2010, 08:38
I will do a better job sorting from now on. Every now and then I pick up a 32 auto and almost put it in the press, but I can feel the size difference with my fingers. I really just need to sit down and go through my 9mm brass, but it's in the thousands. I bet there are a few 9mmMAK in there also.

After I tumbled my next "batch" of brass, I sit down in front of the TV with several bins and a small flashlight. I grab a piece of brass and shine the light inside to make sure there's no "crud" in there. If something were, it would reduce the volume, potentially causing problems. I then flip it over and check the case itself briefly, then the headstamp. There are many which I don't care to reload. Those get tossed. I also check that it says 9MM and not .380. I can usually detect it just by the size, but sometimes not.

I don't currently reload .380, but I keep the brass. I may decide to do it someday, or I can sell it or something.

My time at the press has been WAY more productive, as I don't end up with a piece of WCC (military brass with crimped primer) as it was culled during the sorting process (I do keep it though). I also haven't accidentally put a piece of .380 in... it's been a LONG time since I did that.

I can do a BUNCH of brass in several hours in one evening... it's just part of the QA process that I like to follow. Works for me. YMMV.

Boxerglocker
10-26-2010, 08:41
Before I started pre-sorting my tumbled brass (to eliminate undesired headstamps as well as to separate out .380), I'd accidentally put a piece of .380 brass in my 550B while loading 9mm.

It would resize, but it would never prime? Either it's a different shellplate, or different pins are used... but the case would always move out of the way. Not sure how he was able to do that, he's using a 550B also, isn't he?

I've managed it a few times on the SDB, getting a .380 primed, while loading 9mm.

The XL650 will do it no problem through the casefeeding system. I've had 3-4 got through so far... good thing is the RCBS lock out die caught it each time.

MrOldLude
10-26-2010, 08:51
When I'm unlucky enough to find a .380 case that got picked up with my 9mm, it always has an unusual feel when I decap/resize. So I've never reloaded one.

XDRoX
10-26-2010, 08:53
What do you guys think would have happened had the round fired?
Anything bad?

I was throwing 4.5gr of WST, which is a very light load, so I doubt the smaller case would have created unsafe pressure. I also use 124gr plated bullets, so although I doubt most people shoot 124gr in 380, do you think it would have fired safely?

Another question is did the case have the full 4.5gr of WST in it, or would the shorter case not have fully operated the powder throw:dunno:

I should have saved the powder after I pulled it, but I dumped it out. I could try to run it through the 550b again and see what happens.

Boxerglocker
10-26-2010, 09:07
What do you guys think would have happened had the round fired?
Anything bad?

I was throwing 4.5gr of WST, which is a very light load, so I doubt the smaller case would have created unsafe pressure. I also use 124gr plated bullets, so although I doubt most people shoot 124gr in 380, do you think it would have fired safely?

Another question is did the case have the full 4.5gr of WST in it, or would the shorter case not have fully operated the powder throw:dunno:
I should have saved the powder after I pulled it, but I dumped it out. I could try to run it through the 550b again and see what happens.

All the dillon machine use the same powder funnel for .380 and 9mm an "F" so yeah you would have had powder in the case. Provided you set the OAL short enough it would most likely crimp. As stated before if it was centered on the breach of the gun with the rim under the extractor.... then yes I think it would have fired and the case expanded.

Colorado4Wheel
10-26-2010, 09:59
Pooffff instead of BANG is what happened when my 9mm went off in the 10mm chamber.

gwalchmai
10-26-2010, 13:13
38 is a shortened 357Nope. Not at all. ;)

ilgunguygt
10-26-2010, 13:17
380 is a shortened 9, 40 is a shortened 10, 38 is a shortened 357 and so on. Case is shorter, diameter is the same. The load data is definately different though. I found a couple boxes of speer 95 grain 9mm tips in my cabinet. I don't own a 9. I did years ago but not anymore. I loaded them all in my 380 casings and they shot great.
Actually, the 357 is a lengthened 38 special case, as opposed to the other way around.

GioaJack
10-26-2010, 13:22
Actually Elmer Keith, Et Al, is credited with the development and introduction of the .357 mag back in the 1930's. I believe S&W brought out the first revolver chambered for it.

My memory may be a little foggy, I was only in my 20's back then and I was paying more attention to women than guns. :whistling:


Jack

fredj338
10-26-2010, 13:25
What do you guys think would have happened had the round fired?
Anything bad?

I was throwing 4.5gr of WST, which is a very light load, so I doubt the smaller case would have created unsafe pressure. I also use 124gr plated bullets, so although I doubt most people shoot 124gr in 380, do you think it would have fired safely?

Another question is did the case have the full 4.5gr of WST in it, or would the shorter case not have fully operated the powder throw:dunno:

I should have saved the powder after I pulled it, but I dumped it out. I could try to run it through the 550b again and see what happens.
I would actually be concerened about that load in a 380 case. The slightly extra freebore might not be enough to reduce pressures of the smaller case volumn. KB the gun, probably not, but not a good experience for certain.
380 is a shortened 9,
Not true at all. The 380 has a diff case head size & is straight, the 9mm is tapered. Entirely diff rounds that share the same bullet dia.:dunno:

shotgunred
10-26-2010, 14:30
Before I started pre-sorting my tumbled brass (to eliminate undesired headstamps as well as to separate out .380), I'd accidentally put a piece of .380 brass in my 550B while loading 9mm.

It would resize, but it would never prime? Either it's a different shellplate, or different pins are used... but the case would always move out of the way. Not sure how he was able to do that, he's using a 550B also, isn't he?

I normally notice after I have seated a bullet and the bullet looks to long to me. They will re size and prime just fine. my crimp die will normally knock them out of the shell plate.

PCJim
10-26-2010, 15:15
On a properly tuned 550b, the operator WILL notice a decrease in required stroke power if a .380 case is inserted into a 9mm die. With a lot of experience, you'll notice the difference in case size as soon as you pick up the case.

Fred, I will differ with you only in theory on whether there would be significant detrimental impact if a .380 was fired in a 9mm chamber. I have not tried this, thus it is theory.

My rationale: the bullet would have been seated to the same depth as a normal 9mm round, providing almost identical case volume for powder expansion. Granted, there would be much less purchase on the bullet due to the extended COL, and setback could be a significant problem. Other than this one potentiality, when fired and considering the nearly same case volume, the 380 case expansion inside the chamber would nearly mimick the 9mm's and the round "should" fire without much difference.

Again, I have no experience with this specific scenario. I have almost loaded a couple of 380s within a batch of 9mm rounds. And, I suppose it is possible, that I have shot same without recognizing the difference. Anyway, just my theory.

fredj338
10-26-2010, 15:22
On a properly tuned 550b, the operator WILL notice a decrease in required stroke power if a .380 case is inserted into a 9mm die. With a lot of experience, you'll notice the difference in case size as soon as you pick up the case.

Fred, I will differ with you only in theory on whether there would be significant detrimental impact if a .380 was fired in a 9mm chamber. I have not tried this, thus it is theory.
My rationale: the bullet would have been seated to the same depth as a normal 9mm round, providing almost identical case volume for powder expansion. Granted, there would be much less purchase on the bullet due to the extended COL, and setback could be a significant problem. Other than this one potentiality, when fired and considering the nearly same case volume, the 380 case expansion inside the chamber would nearly mimick the 9mm's and the round "should" fire without much difference.

Again, I have no experience with this specific scenario. I have almost loaded a couple of 380s within a batch of 9mm rounds. And, I suppose it is possible, that I have shot same without recognizing the difference. Anyway, just my theory.
I am guessing as well, something I also do not want to try.:wow:

GioaJack
10-26-2010, 16:15
I normally don't admit to some of the dumber things I've done in life, especially those where the statute of limitations have yet to expire, but youth is a time for learning... and I did a lot of it, both sober and at times not.

Suffice it to say that years ago 'firearms safety' was not stressed as much as it is today and when your salary and medical coverage is provided by the taxpayers you, along with some of your inebriated coworkers are at times predisposed to do things you would not normally do. The fact that you might be attending a training session on a police range certainly doesn't dampen those inquisitive tendencies... nor did it necessarily quell the thirst for adult beverages.

Can a .380 be fired successfully out of a Browning Hi-Power without destroying the gun or losing one or more digits? The simple answer is yes... several times. Kinda fun as I remember it... lots of giggles and phrases such as, 'hold my beer, watch this'.

It is not as simple as loading a magazine and popping away down range. First of all they won't feed... pretty much end up as an upside down stovepipe. Dropping one into the chamber and letting the slide slam into battery doesn't work either. You end up looking for a stick to push the round back out of the barrel.

During moments of clear vision however it is possible to place the rim under the extractor, ease the slide forward, turn your face away as far as possible while your 'friends' explain that you don't have a hair on your posterior if you don't pull the trigger and in an effort to prove your manliness touch off a round.

The absence of blood, searing pain or mangled metal parts is impetus to repeat the less than intelligent act until a chorus of 'let me try it' descends upon your ears and you enjoy the sound of a freshly released pop top while secretly hoping someone gets hurt.

It is a exercise in stupidity that I do not recommend and only rationalize the endeavor in the light that if people didn't try stupid things we never would have set foot on the moon. :whistling:


Jack

XDRoX
10-26-2010, 16:47
I normally don't admit to some of the dumber things I've done in life, especially those where the statute of limitations have yet to expire, but youth is a time for learning... and I did a lot of it, both sober and at times not.

Suffice it to say that years ago 'firearms safety' was not stressed as much as it is today and when your salary and medical coverage is provided by the taxpayers you, along with some of your inebriated coworkers are at times predisposed to do things you would not normally do. The fact that you might be attending a training session on a police range certainly doesn't dampen those inquisitive tendencies... nor did it necessarily quell the thirst for adult beverages.

Can a .380 be fired successfully out of a Browning Hi-Power without destroying the gun or losing one or more digits? The simple answer is yes... several times. Kinda fun as I remember it... lots of giggles and phrases such as, 'hold my beer, watch this'.

It is not as simple as loading a magazine and popping away down range. First of all they won't feed... pretty much end up as an upside down stovepipe. Dropping one into the chamber and letting the slide slam into battery doesn't work either. You end up looking for a stick to push the round back out of the barrel.

During moments of clear vision however it is possible to place the rim under the extractor, ease the slide forward, turn your face away as far as possible while your 'friends' explain that you don't have a hair on your posterior if you don't pull the trigger and in an effort to prove your manliness touch off a round.

The absence of blood, searing pain or mangled metal parts is impetus to repeat the less than intelligent act until a chorus of 'let me try it' descends upon your ears and you enjoy the sound of a freshly released pop top while secretly hoping someone gets hurt.

It is a exercise in stupidity that I do not recommend and only rationalize the endeavor in the light that if people didn't try stupid things we never would have set foot on the moon. :whistling:


Jack


I wish this would fit in my sig:supergrin:





Well at least I feel better knowing that I didn't put Justin's life in danger, thanks Jack.