I think I'm done with the 357sig [Archive] - Glock Talk

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greyeyezz
10-26-2010, 09:09
I'm getting a .40 barrel for my G32. Checking some of the ammo deals on .40 ammo blew me away. 500 rds of rangers for 150-160 bucks? Gold Dots were double that at ammoman. I'm done.

I have a nice stash of 1,300 357 loads for shtf.

cowboy1964
10-26-2010, 09:20
That's $16 per box for Rangers? That's quite unusual, usually they're $24 or so. What is the product number? You sure it's not the "Z" stuff (not that there is anything wrong with that but you want to be sure you're comparing apples).

Beware Owner
10-26-2010, 09:25
Do you reload?

OkieGunNut
10-26-2010, 11:30
That is why I have not purchased a factory centerfire round in the last thirty years and have shot around 200,000 rnds in that time. Reloading, thank God for reloading.

greyeyezz
10-26-2010, 11:51
cdnn has 155gr rangers for 17 a box, 169 a case.

No i don't reload, I should. But what if there's another shortage of components? I'm back to square one.

Beware Owner
10-26-2010, 11:58
cdnn has 155gr rangers for 17 a box, 169 a case.

No i don't reload, I should. But what if there's another shortage of components? I'm back to square one.

There really wasn't ever a "shortage," for those who knew where and how to look. Still, there's that secret little stash hidden somewhere....a REAL reloader is never without components!

fredj338
10-26-2010, 13:20
cdnn has 155gr rangers for 17 a box, 169 a case.

No i don't reload, I should. But what if there's another shortage of components? I'm back to square one.

The only thing ever in short supply @ reasonable prices are primers. You can store 10K primers in the space of 1K rounds of ammo & for less money too. If you shoot something like the 357sig, reloading is a must. You can reload for it at 9mm cost, about $11/100. So keep at least 5K primers on hand & you are good to go. When I get down to that, I order up another 10K.:dunno: Bullets & powder have always been available.

GunFighter45ACP
10-26-2010, 13:34
Yeah, I keep my 357sig shooting to a minimum these days. I'm interested in reloading, but since I have other caliber options, I usually just go that way.

RottnJP
10-26-2010, 18:48
For you guys "in the know" on reloading, where are the best places to get components? Primers, powder, etc. Whatever.

shotgunred
10-26-2010, 19:26
You can reload 357 sig for $115 a thousand.
For you guys "in the know" on reloading, where are the best places to get components? Primers, powder, etc. Whatever.
If you go to the reloading sub forum you can find out anything you want to know.
To be completely honest upfront you have to buy supplies and some equipment. The equipment is going to cost you a minimum of $300 buck. Most of us have over a grand into it. To save money you have to have your brass. You do keep your old brass don't you? You also need to buy your primers at least 1 K at a time and 2K of projectiles. By figuring the difference in cost my press (Dillon 550) payed for itself in 4 months. Another three months for all the extras and I was even. Now I save on every round. I save about 3 grand a year and shoot all I want.

RottnJP
10-26-2010, 19:52
Yeah, I need to pick their brains over there, but I was hoping for a few source ideas from a couple of reloaders who poked their heads' up on this thread. I guess in hind-sight a bit of an attempted hi-jack, so I apologize.

A friend's dad just moved into my area with all his reloading equipment. We've been chatting guns here and there, and he offered me the use of his equipment. So although I have been saving my brass towards the day I'd have space for a set-up, I haven't been paying attention to component costs or sources at all. :dunno: Now all of a sudden, I need to know!! It's too good an opportunity to pass up. :wavey:

PersonOfInterest
10-27-2010, 02:10
Just one word of caution, reloading is all good however if your new to it - id avoid starting with the 357sig - it can be tricky in some respects, if your going to start id do so with something more simple ie a straight walled case - that stubby bottle neck can be tricky - plus the seating, projectile length, resizing and getting the sizer to the point were it wont push down the shoulders - list goes on anyway just something to think about.

shotgunred
10-27-2010, 04:39
Once you are up and going you can buy primers by 5 to 10 k and 8 lb powder jugs to save more. But when you start you are better to buy in smaller batches locally. Why but $125 to $200 for powder that wont fill your needs?
Go to reloading. Read the stickies and then ask us questions.

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
http://www.grafs.com/catalog/category/categoryId/3500

Natty
10-27-2010, 08:16
I have thought about getting a .357 Sig barrel for my G22, but whats the point?

The .357 Sig ammo costs more, but I cant seem to find any evidence where it is better than the .40SW for Self defense.

Beware Owner
10-27-2010, 08:22
I have thought about getting a .357 Sig barrel for my G22, but whats the point?

The .357 Sig ammo costs more, but I cant seem to find any evidence where it is better than the .40SW for Self defense.

You'd have to look it up, but it's better barrier penetration.

Natty
10-27-2010, 10:09
You'd have to look it up, but it's better barrier penetration.

I have heard this about the 357 Sig.

This does not make it better for me. Over penetrating the person I have to shoot is a bad thing for me.

The 357 Sig also has a louder report, flash and bang and snappier recoil.

This does not benefit me.

And of course it cannot make a bigger hole in the target than the 40SW.

IndyGunFreak
10-27-2010, 11:39
I'm a reloader, and I gave up on the .357sig as well. Brass in 9, 40, 45 is plentiful.. Finding .357sig brass at my range was near impossible, and factory ammo was absurdly expensive.

I was quite happy when I sold that gun to someone else.

IGF

BOGE
10-27-2010, 11:43
I'm a reloader, and I gave up on the .357sig as well. Brass in 9, 40, 45 is plentiful.. Finding .357sig brass at my range was near impossible, and factory ammo was absurdly expensive.

I was quite happy when I sold that gun to someone else.

IGF

I`m confused. :dunno: Reload your factory brass or buy Starline. I rarely shoot over 200 rds. in a practice session. I simply collect my spent brass & reload them again.

fredj338
10-27-2010, 12:53
I'm a reloader, and I gave up on the .357sig as well. Brass in 9, 40, 45 is plentiful.. Finding .357sig brass at my range was near impossible, and factory ammo was absurdly expensive.

I was quite happy when I sold that gun to someone else.

IGF
Once fired @ $35/1K, cheap enough & just as easy to find as o.f. 40 or 9mm. Cheaper than 45acp too. Hey, it's America, for now at least, freedom of choice.:supergrin:

IndyGunFreak
10-27-2010, 14:47
I`m confused. :dunno: Reload your factory brass or buy Starline. I rarely shoot over 200 rds. in a practice session. I simply collect my spent brass & reload them again.

Not really much to be confused about...When I can't find factory ammo to buy (or the ammo is so ridiculously expensive compared to other calibers), it's not worth buying factory ammo.

It would have only cost me about $50-$60(not including components) to setup in .357sig.... but then it comes back to the topic of this thread... the .357sig really doesn't do anything that isn't already accomplished by the 40 and/or 9mm. Slowly, it kinda went into the safe, and stayed there and wasn't pulled out in almost 2yrs other than to give it a light oil.

I dumped it for $400, and it had hardly been fired... I sold it to a guy I work with, and he's never really commented to me much about it(despite talking about his other guns), so I suspect he dumped it, or doesn't like it, and it's a safe queen.

IGF

PersonOfInterest
10-28-2010, 02:24
I have heard this about the 357 Sig.

This does not make it better for me. Over penetrating the person I have to shoot is a bad thing for me.

The 357 Sig also has a louder report, flash and bang and snappier recoil.

This does not benefit me.

And of course it cannot make a bigger hole in the target than the 40SW.
Theres a difference of 1mm at the entrance - thats the only difference - big difference internally to what a 125gn JHP @ 1350fps can do compared to the .40 - ive seen internal damage on animals ive shot with the sig compared to the .40 the difference really needs to be seen to be believed and that goes for blood loss.
The Sig from ive seen on living things just causes very quick and sevre blood loss, the .40 on the other hand really didnt impress so much - i still like the .40 however.
Dont get why people go on and on about the 'bigger bullet' fact is it more comes down to the speed behind that bullet and its consctruction more so than anything.
Internally (where the damage counts) the 357sig will make a bigger hole.

ABNAK
10-28-2010, 08:05
Theres a difference of 1mm at the entrance - thats the only difference - big difference internally to what a 125gn JHP @ 1350fps can do compared to the .40 - ive seen internal damage on animals ive shot with the sig compared to the .40 the difference really needs to be seen to be believed and that goes for blood loss.
The Sig from ive seen on living things just causes very quick and sevre blood loss, the .40 on the other hand really didnt impress so much - i still like the .40 however.
Dont get why people go on and on about the 'bigger bullet' fact is it more comes down to the speed behind that bullet and its consctruction more so than anything.
Internally (where the damage counts) the 357sig will make a bigger hole.


What type of 357Sig bullets were used?

I see the 357Sig as sort of a "niche" round with 2 groups of users:

1) Those needing more penetration will like it if used with, say, a Gold Dot. State troopers, etc. Think car doors and windshields.

2) Those wanting to replicate the vaunted .357 Magnum ballistics out of a semi-auto pistol as opposed to a revolver. For this you'll need a bullet that is more conventional in construction, like Cor Bon's 125gr Sierra JHP. It is not bonded (just like the old .357 Mag SJHP's were not either). It will throw some fragments when pushed to 1400fps, like the Mag ones did.

While I have several calibers in my collection, I see the 357Sig for me as falling into #2. I'm not a cop and am not overly concerned with 16-18" of penetraion. If/when I CCW my Glock I will likely use the Cor Bon loads. To me it is analogous with packing a 4" S&W 686.

I do not think that a "temporary stretch cavity" at handgun velocities will do much in the way of incapacitation. Maybe with rifle velocities at relatively close range, but even Buffalo Bore's load I clocked at 1500fps isn't into rifle territory.

So what you're basically looking at is either screaming handgun velocities with a "shattering" effect on the bullet (yet still adequate penetration) like Cor Bon or the old .357 Mag, or penetration with controlled expansion. For the latter you can use any non-357Sig round and get cheaper, more controllable firepower. To me it isn't worth the cost and recoil to just get .70 expansion with 14" penetration. I can get that with some 9mm/.40/.45 loads. So unless I'm using the Cor Bon 357Sig loads I'll just carry another caliber.

Only advantage I can see to the 1500fps BB Gold Dot (in a non-LEO setting) is that it'd make a decent woods gun where you might see wild boar or black bear.

cowboy1964
10-28-2010, 08:08
cdnn has 155gr rangers for 17 a box, 169 a case.

Those must be the older Rangers. They are not Ranger-T's or bonded I would say.

This place has them even cheaper:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AWRA40JHP135

mojo67
10-28-2010, 08:41
I love the 357Sig. I've put almost 3000 rounds down range out of my G31. It's by far the most fun pistol cartridge I've ever shot. Yes, it is a little more expensive to shoot, but not much if you know how to use the internet. I just bought 1000 rounds of Lawman for $320.00. That's $16.00 per box! That's as cheap or cheaper than most 45acp ammo. As for self defense ammo, I can find premium stuff for $25.00/box of 50, or cheaper.
Yes, the 9 is substantially cheaper, but who cares...it's boring to shoot.

For all the 9 and 40 guy's who say their round is just as adequate, that's fine, but when the chips are down I'm going to take much more solace in knowing I've got a 357 Sig in hand.

Natty
10-28-2010, 11:28
Theres a difference of 1mm at the entrance - thats the only difference - big difference internally to what a 125gn JHP @ 1350fps can do compared to the .40

I have .40 cal Double Tap loads that have a 135gr Nosler JHP at 1420 fps.

Larger caliber, heavier and faster bullet than the .357 Sig load you quote.

breacher1
10-28-2010, 12:05
lots of posts about Doubletap ammo velocities being a little overstated on their advertised numbers.

135 gr at maybe 1350 to 1380 fps would still put your eye out

dkf
10-28-2010, 12:10
I have .40 cal Double Tap loads that have a 135gr Nosler JHP at 1420 fps.

Larger caliber, heavier and faster bullet than the .357 Sig load you quote.

And the BB 125 Gr. .357 SIG will go around 1500fps verified on a chrony. DT says those 135 .40s go 1420 but that doesn't mean they actually achieve 1420 out of your gun.

Natty
10-28-2010, 12:38
And the BB 125 Gr. .357 SIG will go around 1500fps verified on a chrony. DT says those 135 .40s go 1420 but that doesn't mean they actually achieve 1420 out of your gun.

Well since you mentioned BB, many of their advertised velocities are even faster than DT.

They list a .40 155 gr @ 1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=25

I dont see a .357Sig on their site that is as fast as the one you mention, or a .357 Sig that has more kinetic energy than the .40 SW load above.

http://www.buffalobore.com/

ABNAK
10-28-2010, 12:48
Well since you mentioned BB, many of their advertised velocities are even faster than DT.

They list a .40 155 gr @ 1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=25

I dont see a .357Sig on their site that is as fast as the one you mention, or a .357 Sig that has more kinetic energy than the .40 SW load above.

http://www.buffalobore.com/

He may be referring to my recent chrono'ing of the BB 125gr load. I was surprised, to say the least. Thinking it was my chrono I switched to Cor Bon 125gr'ers and they were around 1400fps. Switched back to the BB and yep, back up to 1500fps. Maybe it was that particular lot, maybe it was the Storm Lake replacement barrel I used. Dunno. :dunno:

Natty
10-28-2010, 13:20
Factory Glock barrels, because of their Polygonal rifling, produce faster velocities than most bullets advertised velocities if they use another gun for their test.

greyeyezz
10-28-2010, 13:54
Don't get me wrong I love the round, my G32 is loaded up with GDots right now, it will continue to be my go to round. My corbon 125's are ferocious. But I like to shoot and stockpile. The selection and deals just aren't there.

As for reloading, i was checking prices on 357 bullets, the prices are ridiculous.

http://www.google.com/products?q=357+sig+bullets+reloading&hl=en&show=dd&sa=N&start=0

fredj338
10-28-2010, 16:32
Factory Glock barrels, because of their Polygonal rifling, produce faster velocities than most bullets advertised velocities if they use another gun for their test.

Not really, less than 25fps if that. I have a LW bbl for my G17. it gets almost identical vel w/ the factory bbl. That was a lot of Glock marketing hype. A 25fps diff is within variation within a given lot of ammo, means very little.:dunno:

PersonOfInterest
10-29-2010, 01:50
I have .40 cal Double Tap loads that have a 135gr Nosler JHP at 1420 fps.

Larger caliber, heavier and faster bullet than the .357 Sig load you quote.
Heres the problem with what your saying - thats a niche load and not very common compared to all the 180gn JHP's doing 1000fps that most .40 cals are loaded with - added to which the penetration on that load wont be very impressive - those nosler projectiles wont hold up well under that speed compared to the 125gn GD at 1350fps plus.
Even fast 155gn .40cal loads dont do anywhere near the damage internally that a 125gn JHP @ 1350fps does - although ive seen quicker incapacitation and more blood loss from that .40 load than the 180gn'rs - still no .40 load ive seen does the damage a 357sig does.
Maybe your DT load would do more damage however it would get NOWHERE near the penetration the sig gets - and that can let you down when it comes to killing something, all it takes is angles to change - certain bones to come into play that limit such a fragile load.
So in short - the comparison youve made is just wrong sorry.

Natty
10-29-2010, 07:13
Heres the problem with what your saying - thats a niche load and not very common compared to all the 180gn JHP's doing 1000fps that most .40 cals are loaded with - added to which the penetration on that load wont be very impressive - those nosler projectiles wont hold up well under that speed compared to the 125gn GD at 1350fps plus.
Even fast 155gn .40cal loads dont do anywhere near the damage internally that a 125gn JHP @ 1350fps does - although ive seen quicker incapacitation and more blood loss from that .40 load than the 180gn'rs - still no .40 load ive seen does the damage a 357sig does.
Maybe your DT load would do more damage however it would get NOWHERE near the penetration the sig gets - and that can let you down when it comes to killing something, all it takes is angles to change - certain bones to come into play that limit such a fragile load.
So in short - the comparison youve made is just wrong sorry.

The only comparison I made was that the .40 SW load I mentioned was a "Larger caliber, heavier and faster bullet than the .357 Sig" you mentioned.

This is true, not wrong.

Natty
10-29-2010, 07:16
Not really, less than 25fps if that. I have a LW bbl for my G17. it gets almost identical vel w/ the factory bbl. That was a lot of Glock marketing hype. A 25fps diff is within variation within a given lot of ammo, means very little.:dunno:

I said faster. You said only 25fps if that.

Faster is faster, regardless of how faster.

I thought the whole point of the 357 Sig was it was faster than a 9mm with the same bullet.

mongo356
10-29-2010, 10:57
This does not make it better for me.

The 357 Sig also has a louder report, flash and bang and snappier recoil.

This does not benefit me.


I sold all my 357sig guns and stayed with 40.

Ammo was:
1 Harder to reload for at the time.
2 Off the shelf ammo hard to find and very $ (compared to 40).
3 Louder blast.
4 Suppose to use 357 sig bullets and had to be very cautious of 9mm bullets for reloading=more $.
5 Brass was expensive and hard to find(compared to 40 that I could scavenge all day at the range for free).

more cost = less trigger time. I could practice with 40 more and reload cheaper.

But 357Sig was fun. Some of the most flat shooting and accurate Glocks I ever fired were from a 357Sig.

fredj338
10-29-2010, 13:05
I said faster. You said only 25fps if that.

Faster is faster, regardless of how faster.

I thought the whole point of the 357 Sig was it was faster than a 9mm with the same bullet. That is the point, but the 357sig is faster in any bbl.
You appraently missed the point that 25fps is within variation of ammo lots. My G17 runs almost identical vel compared to the OEM bbl. My 4" S&W runs faster than a G17 w/ OEM bl, so I stand by my statement; Glock bbls are faster is marketing hype.

PersonOfInterest
10-30-2010, 00:56
The only comparison I made was that the .40 SW load I mentioned was a "Larger caliber, heavier and faster bullet than the .357 Sig" you mentioned.

This is true, not wrong.
Fair enough
You did originally say it has nothing more to offer - THAT is wrong from what ive seen on living things shot dead with both calibers. :horsey:

PghJim
10-30-2010, 20:16
If you do not reload you can find cheaper 357sig, but you have to do it over the internet:

http://georgia-arms.com/357sig.aspx

Otherwise, get your 40 S&W barrel and practice with the 40 and carry the 357sig. The only 357sig rounds I buy are the ones I carry. If I do not feel like reloading, I have a G19 set up exactly the same as my G32 and practice with 9mm. I think it is a poor reason not to carry a caliber. If you do not like the caliber, then it is OK, change it.

Whoever made the reference to BB 125gr going over 1,500fps, you are correct, at least out of a 4.5 inch barrel. I found BB to be about the only manufacturer that out performs the avertised velocity.

PersonOfInterest
10-30-2010, 22:49
What type of 357Sig bullets were used?

I see the 357Sig as sort of a "niche" round with 2 groups of users:

1) Those needing more penetration will like it if used with, say, a Gold Dot. State troopers, etc. Think car doors and windshields.

2) Those wanting to replicate the vaunted .357 Magnum ballistics out of a semi-auto pistol as opposed to a revolver. For this you'll need a bullet that is more conventional in construction, like Cor Bon's 125gr Sierra JHP. It is not bonded (just like the old .357 Mag SJHP's were not either). It will throw some fragments when pushed to 1400fps, like the Mag ones did.

While I have several calibers in my collection, I see the 357Sig for me as falling into #2. I'm not a cop and am not overly concerned with 16-18" of penetraion. If/when I CCW my Glock I will likely use the Cor Bon loads. To me it is analogous with packing a 4" S&W 686.

I do not think that a "temporary stretch cavity" at handgun velocities will do much in the way of incapacitation. Maybe with rifle velocities at relatively close range, but even Buffalo Bore's load I clocked at 1500fps isn't into rifle territory.

So what you're basically looking at is either screaming handgun velocities with a "shattering" effect on the bullet (yet still adequate penetration) like Cor Bon or the old .357 Mag, or penetration with controlled expansion. For the latter you can use any non-357Sig round and get cheaper, more controllable firepower. To me it isn't worth the cost and recoil to just get .70 expansion with 14" penetration. I can get that with some 9mm/.40/.45 loads. So unless I'm using the Cor Bon 357Sig loads I'll just carry another caliber.

Only advantage I can see to the 1500fps BB Gold Dot (in a non-LEO setting) is that it'd make a decent woods gun where you might see wild boar or black bear.
As for what bullets where used by me when i was doing culling it was 3 different rounds - i used the factory Hornady load the 124gn grain XTP (im still pretty convinced the load i had was actually the 125gn 357cal projectiles and not the 124gn .355 cal) i also used handload 125gn GD .355's which worked well at the same factory speed (ie 1380fps) and the 125gn Sierra JHP at the same speed, now all those loads worked exceptionally well mimicking the 357magnum 125gn JHP's i had used before for shooting animals on properties - the results where identical (big internal damage - lots of blood loss etc etc) so ive stuck with it.

I also like the hot 9mm loads which are quite similair in effect but fact is i find the 357sig better all round.

Youve said you can just use the 9mm/.40/.45 and get .70 cal expansion and the 14" of penetration however things arent that black and white - sure the gel tests show that - real life isnt the same, real life with living things has shown me the 357sig is better - all that being said theres nothing wrong with the .40 or .45 or even the 9mm in 147gn go with whats practical for you and what you have at the time.
For me the 357sig is practical and other times the 9mm is so im happy to stick with it. :wavey:

kamonjj
11-19-2010, 10:21
I am a fan of 357sig. I was a .40 fan and swore by it for years. Until I shot a 357sig and I was hooked. Amazing round. I just got rid of my glock 33 and I miss it everyday. With that being said, reloading is not an option for me. I would not be allowed to reload in my residence and so I was stuck using georgia arms ammo. Which I will say, its great ammo for the money. Not one problem at all. Once i found georgia arms ammo, I thought I would never get rid of the 357sig caliber from my arsenal.

Well I went to the range one day with my friends, and one of them was shooting my 33. He fell in love with it, and offered me more than I paid for it. So I had to let it go with the intention of buying another one in OD green if I could find one.

I went to the store, and bought a 19 RTF2 with gill instead, and haven't looked back. I love the price and availability of 9mm ammo. Super cheap and easy to find. I don't make a ton of money, and I love shooting. So I had to make a compromise. I went with the ability to go anywhere at any time and get ammo for cheap to shoot. I think the hot 9mm rounds will do just fine in self defense. After all, I do have 15 of them.

Brucev
11-19-2010, 20:37
If someone wants to shoot the .357Sig., fine. I've often enjoyed shooting the S&W .357 Mag. Especially with the heavier bullets, it's extremely versatile... good for deer up to about 40-50 yds. For SD with light bullets it's the bomb! The Sig. should be about the same. It's not going to be magic. Nothing is. But it will be fine for SD, etc. For other uses, there are better choices. Neat thing is, you don't have to use just one gun/caliber to do everything. How boring that would be!

unit1069
11-20-2010, 08:39
What type of 357Sig bullets were used?

I see the 357Sig as sort of a "niche" round with 2 groups of users:

1) Those needing more penetration will like it if used with, say, a Gold Dot. State troopers, etc. Think car doors and windshields.

2) Those wanting to replicate the vaunted .357 Magnum ballistics out of a semi-auto pistol as opposed to a revolver. For this you'll need a bullet that is more conventional in construction, like Cor Bon's 125gr Sierra JHP. It is not bonded (just like the old .357 Mag SJHP's were not either). It will throw some fragments when pushed to 1400fps, like the Mag ones did.

I fall into #2 also. The evidence and testimony of LEO and ballistics experts about the .357 Magnum is so convincing that if I can get the equivalence in a pistol holding over twice the rounds of a revolver I'm going for it.

I try to always carry a 125-grain bullet (backup mag has 147-grain Gold Dots) that's designed for .357sig instead of the 124-grain bullet designed for 9mm. I do have some Fiocchi 124-grain Extrema XTP rounds I haven't tried out yet but handloaders say good things about the bullet's ability to perform at high velocities.

If anybody can tell me more about the Sierra 125-grain bullet I'd be interested in reading about it and how it performs compared to 125-grain/147-grain Gold Dots and 125-grain HST. At the moment I have the HST in the carry mag; would Sierra be a notch better?

Glolt20-91
11-21-2010, 00:51
I fall into #2 also. The evidence and testimony of LEO and ballistics experts about the .357 Magnum is so convincing that if I can get the equivalence in a pistol holding over twice the rounds of a revolver I'm going for it.

I try to always carry a 125-grain bullet (backup mag has 147-grain Gold Dots) that's designed for .357sig instead of the 124-grain bullet designed for 9mm. I do have some Fiocchi 124-grain Extrema XTP rounds I haven't tried out yet but handloaders say good things about the bullet's ability to perform at high velocities.

If anybody can tell me more about the Sierra 125-grain bullet I'd be interested in reading about it and how it performs compared to 125-grain/147-grain Gold Dots and 125-grain HST. At the moment I have the HST in the carry mag; would Sierra be a notch better?

Just a side note for your information, the 124gr XTP starts to come apart somewhere in the high 1300s to low 1400s, I believe Person of Interest has seen the same in his culling efforts.

I expect you'll experience some fragging with the Sierra bullet, this is a .357cal 140gr Sierra fired from a .38 Super, low 1200s;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/38Super140Sierrarecovered.jpg

In .357mag, the 140gr is loaded into the 1500s rather easily, not much recoil either.

Bob :cowboy:

PersonOfInterest
11-21-2010, 02:46
Just a side note for your information, the 124gr XTP starts to come apart somewhere in the high 1300s to low 1400s, I believe Person of Interest has seen the same in his culling efforts.

I expect you'll experience some fragging with the Sierra bullet, this is a .357cal 140gr Sierra fired from a .38 Super, low 1200s;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/38Super140Sierrarecovered.jpg

In .357mag, the 140gr is loaded into the 1500s rather easily, not much recoil either.

Bob :cowboy:
Yep i certainly have now as for the Sierra 125gn JHP (3125 is the product code?) ive loaded it in the 357sig out to 1380fps and used it on ferals and in some testing and i found it to fall apart once your over 1300fps, now thats not to say its a bad prjoectile but just something to keep in mind.
Its performance was very remaniscant of the the 357mag factory loads using the 125gn SJHP - lots of framentation (which can help with create some horrific internal damage) but can also limit penetration.
For me? well id perfer a projectile thatll cater for good penetration, good barrier defeating capabilites and the ability to withstand high speeds.
Id use the Sierra projectile if thats all i had same goes for the .355 124gn XTP - both in 357sig but in all honesty those 2 wouldnt be my first choice.
125gn Gold Dot for me (that being said ive seen one fail to expand in something living but hey you cant have everything).

PghJim
11-21-2010, 04:30
If anybody can tell me more about the Sierra 125-grain bullet I'd be interested in reading about it and how it performs compared to 125-grain/147-grain Gold Dots and 125-grain HST. At the moment I have the HST in the carry mag; would Sierra be a notch better?


I shoot the Sierra 125gr. at about 1,475fps. With little or no clothing you get a good fragmentation (much like the 125 SJHP 357mag) with about 60% (0.57") penetrating to about 10 - 11". Through 4 layers of heavy denim, the bullet mushrooms to about 0.70" without much fragmentation and penetrates about 13 -14".

I keep going back and forth. GD 125 at 1,500+fps, or Sierra 125 at 1,475fps. I honestly do not know which is better for SD. Today I am carrying the Sierra's. I think they both beat the HST.

DocKWL
11-21-2010, 06:02
What type of 357Sig bullets were used?

I see the 357Sig as sort of a "niche" round with 2 groups of users:

1) Those needing more penetration will like it if used with, say, a Gold Dot. State troopers, etc. Think car doors and windshields.


The general rule of thumb is, light and fast tend to penetrate hard and elastic substances like sheet metal and car tires better. Slow and heavy tend to penetrate soft and cushioning substances such as heavy clothing, wood, tissue, and windshields better. If you want to improve on your ability to penetrate hard and elastic substances, increase your velocity and choose a smaller bullet caliber (e.g. 9mm, .357SIG). If you want to improve your ability to penetrate soft and cushioning materials, increase your caliber size and your bullet mass (e.g. .40S&W, .45ACP, .45GAP). Mass and sectional density effect penetration more than velocity and the same applies to actual tissue.

When you take into account realistic scenarios in a gun fight, whether you are a civilian, law enforcement, or military, the majority of the time heavier and larger calibers will be more useful given the likely barriers you might encounter. Heavier bullets with good sectional density also do better at breaking internal bone structure as light and fast loads use up a lot of their momentum in the initial stages of penetration. There is also a measurable advantage to using larger calibers on soft targets as the wounding ability is greater.

PghJim
11-21-2010, 07:34
The general rule of thumb is, light and fast tend to penetrate hard and elastic substances like sheet metal and car tires better. Slow and heavy tend to penetrate soft and cushioning substances such as heavy clothing, wood, tissue, and windshields better. If you want to improve on your ability to penetrate hard and elastic substances, increase your velocity and choose a smaller bullet caliber (e.g. 9mm, .357SIG). If you want to improve your ability to penetrate soft and cushioning materials, increase your caliber size and your bullet mass (e.g. .40S&W, .45ACP, .45GAP). Mass and sectional density effect penetration more than velocity and the same applies to actual tissue.

When you take into account realistic scenarios in a gun fight, whether you are a civilian, law enforcement, or military, the majority of the time heavier and larger calibers will be more useful given the likely barriers you might encounter. Heavier bullets with good sectional density also do better at breaking internal bone structure as light and fast loads use up a lot of their momentum in the initial stages of penetration. There is also a measurable advantage to using larger calibers on soft targets as the wounding ability is greater.


I think you are talking momentum versus energy. However, a man I only met once, and am still saddened by his passing, came to a different conclusion. Jim Cirillo was undoubtably the best gun fighter of the 20th century. I know he killed over a dozen offenders in many gun battles. The interesting discussion I had with him surrounded bullet design. The conclusion he came to was that a faster, lighter bullet was more effective at stopping a gun fight then a slower, heavier one, even of a larger caliber. He hung around with Lee Jurras of the old Super Vel Company and helped in the designing of a 90gr JHP for 9mm and a 125gr JHP for 357mag at a time when they did not exist. Relegated to a 38 Special in his job, he had Lee design special 110gr cup points that he used in his stake out job, when everyone else was using 158gr bullets. He himself, after 30 some years in law enforcement, started designing bullets, but the Black Talon controversy threw cold water on the fast moving, destructive bullets he was designing. He ended up working with Roscoe Stoker on the Platinum Plus ammunition, which I believe is still available.

The point of this was to not only honor a great man, but to respect his philosophy. Any shooting game/job I am involved in, I usually go to the most experienced expert and ask their opinion on what equipment works best regardless of what the lab may say.

Heavy 40's and 45's are effective rounds, however, even if you are shooting though soft barriers, the high velocity, high energy round is quiet effective. If I had only one round to stop someone from killing me. That one shot I had would be a 125gr Remington JHP 357 mag. that I carried in my 357 Combat Magnum. I am very fortunate not to have had to shoot someone, but those I saw who were shot with this round were very quickly out of the fight, even if they were wearing a soft barrier. I would not discount the 357sig for SD.

unit1069
11-21-2010, 08:19
Thanks for the good bullet info, everyone. Much appreciated.