Is this a good deal? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ashecht
10-27-2010, 17:19
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/other-firearms-accessories-sale/160753-lee-pro-1000-reloader.html


nearly new Lee Pro 1000 reloader with 9mm dies. Complete with tumbler, media, separator, digital scale, digital caliper, bullet puller and brass polish. $350.00 for all. 913-642-1936
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy168/hooktk/005.jpg

RustyFN
10-27-2010, 17:37
Price looks high to me. I would also advise against the P1K as a starter press.

Colorado4Wheel
10-27-2010, 17:42
Kempfs LCT kit with both upgrades $200
Tumbler and shifter from Midway USA $75
Dillon Scale $55
Digital Calipers $25 from Harbour Freight (on sale would be cheaper)
Bullet Puller $10 from Midways USA

Grand Total $340

The Pro 1000 is $160 from Midway with dies. So that $310.

PASS on it. Even if it has a better tumbler, more expensive (but not better) scale, it's not a good deal.

ashecht
10-27-2010, 17:53
thanks for the advise guys, I appreciate it

IndyGunFreak
10-27-2010, 18:33
I would also advise against the P1K as a starter press.

I totally agree w/ this... even Pro 1k fans, admit it has some idiosyncracies, and it will drive you crazy.

In C4W's "How to Get Started" sticky(which you should read)... BoxerGlocker posted a fantastic link on using the LCT...

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/leeturretpress/index.asp

dudel
10-27-2010, 19:04
Price looks high to me. I would also advise against the P1K as a starter press.

When a Lee user advises against a P1K for a first time user, it's time to listen. I agree with Rusty - price seems high as well.

stewiegriffin
10-27-2010, 21:42
I love lee products, started on a breech lock (which I still use) and inherited a pro 1000. I got tired of dealing with priming issues, and picked up a Hornady LNL AP. Won't look back.

The price seems a little high to me as well. Is this your first press? If so, I'd consider the Lee Anniversary kit. IMO, I think a new reloader should start out on a single stage, to get an idea of the process. Only with that understanding would I move on to a progressive. There's up to six processes happening at once on a progressive and a single stage will help you learn what is happening at each process.

Boxerglocker
10-27-2010, 22:32
I love lee products, started on a breech lock (which I still use) and inherited a pro 1000. I got tired of dealing with priming issues, and picked up a Hornady LNL AP. Won't look back.

The price seems a little high to me as well. Is this your first press? If so, I'd consider the Lee Anniversary kit. IMO, I think a new reloader should start out on a single stage, to get an idea of the process. Only with that understanding would I move on to a progressive. There's up to six processes happening at once on a progressive and a single stage will help you learn what is happening at each process.

A new reloader can use a LCT as a single stage and still have the advantage of increased production once he gets the hang of it. When I first started my initial implulse was to go with the Aniversary Kit, glad I didn't cause kit cause of what I know now. That kit it is very limited, maybe for a rifle only wanted to get started person it would be alright, but for pistol as the OP wants to load 9mm and .40, forget about it again IMHO. The LCT set-up as listed by C4W is the minimum I would recommend.

RHVEtte
10-27-2010, 22:57
I love lee products, started on a breech lock (which I still use) and inherited a pro 1000. I got tired of dealing with priming issues, and picked up a Hornady LNL AP. Won't look back.

The price seems a little high to me as well. Is this your first press? If so, I'd consider the Lee Anniversary kit. IMO, I think a new reloader should start out on a single stage, to get an idea of the process. Only with that understanding would I move on to a progressive. There's up to six processes happening at once on a progressive and a single stage will help you learn what is happening at each process.

You know, I'd agree were it not for the fact that a lot of progressives can have the auto-indexing disabled. I actually liked learning that way, since I got to learn each step one at a time, and then got to see how the system acted as a whole. Made troubleshooting that Dillon a whole lot easier (not that it was hard before. It's a Dillon, if something goes wrong it's your fault, not the presses.)

Colorado4Wheel
10-28-2010, 05:17
IMO, I think a new reloader should start out on a single stage, to get an idea of the process.

The LCT does one stage at a time, it does it well, then it automatically moves on to the next stage safely. Never repeating the same stage twice. It's safer then a single stage by a huge amount.

ron59
10-28-2010, 05:29
The price seems a little high to me as well. Is this your first press? If so, I'd consider the Lee Anniversary kit. IMO, I think a new reloader should start out on a single stage, to get an idea of the process. Only with that understanding would I move on to a progressive. There's up to six processes happening at once on a progressive and a single stage will help you learn what is happening at each process.

I really get tired of hearing this. It is NOT that "big of a deal". I started with a Dillon 550 last summer. Use it as a single stage at first (ie, one piece of brass all the way around). After less than 100, started filling all the slots.

Once you have the various stations of a progressive press setup properly (seating die seating to correct depth, crimping die setup properly, etc)... THEY WILL NOT CAUSE YOU PROBLEMS once you start progressively loading.

There is ONE station that will get you into trouble.... the powder throw. So the importance is to focus on that station, insure you get the proper powder throw.

People read the advice I quoted and get a SS, and get fed up with reloading QUICK (at least if they are reloading pistol), as it takes too long to produce anything.

XDRoX
10-28-2010, 07:37
The old "single stage vs. turret/progressive" to start out with will always be a heated debate on GTR.

I'm with the school of people that believe it is better to start on a SS. I know it's slower, but I believe it drives home the basics better. To me it's kind of like learning to crawl before walking. I started out on a SS, and I'm glad I did.

I guess some of us will just have to agree to disagree. But I have 3 SS's and one prog. Two of the SS's are set up on the bench and they get used all the time. For things like swaging or depriming, and when I have mulitple people over for processing brass in bulk, eveything is getting used.

When I remodel my garage my plans are to have 2 progressives and 3 single stages set up at all times.

IndyGunFreak
10-28-2010, 07:46
The old "single stage vs. turret/progressive" to start out with will always be a heated debate on GTR.

I'm with the school of people that believe it is better to start on a SS. I know it's slower, but I believe it drives home the basics better. To me it's kind of like learning to crawl before walking. I started out on a SS, and I'm glad I did.

I guess some of us will just have to agree to disagree. But I have 3 SS's and one prog. Two of the SS's are set up on the bench and they get used all the time. For things like swaging or depriming, and when I have mulitple people over for processing brass in bulk, eveything is getting used.

When I remodel my garage my plans are to have 2 progressives and 3 single stages set up at all times.

I don't disagree it's good to learn on a single stage.. but buy a press than can operate as "both".. rather than buying a Single stage, then a month later, buying something else.

ron59
10-28-2010, 08:28
I don't disagree it's good to learn on a single stage.. but buy a press than can operate as "both".. rather than buying a Single stage, then a month later, buying something else.

This.

Because reloading for pistol is just so dang simple.

I've previously posted (multiple times) the series of videos where the guy shows how to reload using a 550B. I had *somewhat* of an idea what it took to reload pistol prior to watching them from reading "The ABCs of Reloading", and my internet studies. Watching that video through a few times? Put what I had in my head into *reality*.

The 550B is nothing but 4 stations of simplicity.
1) The resizing/priming station? Simple.
2) Seating? Simplest of all
3) Crimping? Some debate about seat & crimp, FCD, seat THEN crimp, but still, pretty simple.

Those 3 stations (all 4 really) need to be setup PROPERLY before reloading even the first round. But once they're setup, they will not cause you *problems*. And proper education along with watching videos, you should know what those stations are doing. It is *not* rocket science to understand OAL, and how to setup a seating die to achieve OAL. If you *don't* understand OAL, a SS press is not going to make that problem go away. Same thing with crimp. If you're not crimping properly on your progressive press, you won't be crimping properly on your SS press either.

The PRIMARY *danger* station with reloading is powder. Focus on the powder throw, insure you get powder thrown, and not a double-charge. Now you're reloading.

I don't want to make reloading sound like child's play, but nor is it some complicated deal (at least with pistol, rifle might be a different story). Do your homework, watch some videos, UNDERSTAND what the stations are doing.... CAKE.

GioaJack
10-28-2010, 10:38
It's nineteen degrees, I'm still engulfed in the fog of my nighttime pharmaceuticals, the French Roast has yet to take effect and I'm bored so what normally happens given that scenario? I type... usually gibberish, but none the less, I type.

It come as no surprise that this thread has morphed into the oft argued single stage vs. progressive debate. Nothing wrong with that, I'm constantly the subject of vigorous debate... 50% of women insist that I'm better looking that Robert Redford and the other 50% argue that I'm better looking than Tom Selleck. Debate is good.

May I proffer a hypothesis on the SS vs. progressive for your consideration? New loaders, (shooters) who start out on a SS press and stay with it for an appreciable amount of time end up being fundamentally better 'shooters' than those who start off with a progressive.

Why do I advance this theory other than to raise the ire of forum members so that I might be entertained by the vitriol laced responses that are sure to follow? The answer is simple... it is human nature to use something that is perceived to be 'free' with less care and caution than something that the user is invested in. In this case the investment is time and effort.

In decades past it was the norm to sit at your SS press, lovingly construct a hundred or hundred and fifty rounds and await for that Saturday or Sunday when you would spend the daylight hours trying to put all of those rounds through one hole. This obviously were the days before 15 round magazines and 7 or 15 yard shooting.

Realizing that it took two hours, or longer of your time to load those three boxes sitting on the shooting stand you treated them like a woman on a troop train... you didn't share them and wanted the experience to last as long as possible.

The day at the range included lot's and lots of dry firing at a 25 or 50 yard target, calling your imaginary shot after every hammer fall and critiquing what you did wrong. For every five shot string fired you followed up with five to ten dry fires.

During muscle and eye relaxation periods you sat back and watched those shooters who were obviously better than you then tried to emulate their grip, stance, concentration and follow-through during your next set of dry fires.

At the end of the day, and after you've fired your 'time invested' 150 rounds you walked away with the knowledge that your groups were slightly smaller than they had been three weeks earlier, you had learned something by watching the more experienced shooter half way down the line and smiled at the thought of reloading your brass so that you could shrink your groups yet again next week.

Contrast that with the loader who starts out on a 500 round per hour press, shows up at the range knowing that he can have all kinds of fun blasting away at a paper plate positioned at the eye straining distance of 7 or 15 yards and then replace those rounds in less time than it takes to have an animated argument with the wife or girlfriend.

Yes, yes, I can hear each of you already saying, 'no, no, I don't shoot that way, I take my time with each and every shot, practice proper sight picture and breathing techniques, lower the gun and mentally call each shot before looking at the target and spend as much time dry firing as I do live fire'. (I can hear you saying it but may I point out... I'm not nearly as stupid as I look. Thank God.)

So, that is the argument to ponder, who will generally end up the better fundamental shooter? Oh, by the way, how many of you own and actually use a spotting scope when trying to hone your pistol shooting skills?

I look forward to your contentious replies... let me get some more coffee and another pack of cigarettes first. :supergrin:


Jack

Bello
10-28-2010, 14:39
I look forward to your contentious replies... let me get some more coffee and another pack of cigarettes first. :supergrin:


Jack

how do you smoke and use the tank at the same time isn't that combustible?

Colorado4Wheel
10-28-2010, 15:41
The old "single stage vs. turret/progressive" to start out with will always be a heated debate on GTR.

I'm with the school of people that believe it is better to start on a SS. I know it's slower, but I believe it drives home the basics better. To me it's kind of like learning to crawl before walking. I started out on a SS, and I'm glad I did.

I guess some of us will just have to agree to disagree. But I have 3 SS's and one prog. Two of the SS's are set up on the bench and they get used all the time. For things like swaging or depriming, and when I have mulitple people over for processing brass in bulk, eveything is getting used.

When I remodel my garage my plans are to have 2 progressives and 3 single stages set up at all times.

Don't kid your self that the SS is safer then the LCT. It's not.

XDRoX
10-28-2010, 16:06
I'm with the school of people that believe it is better to start on a SS. I know it's slower, but I believe it drives home the basics better. To me it's kind of like learning to crawl before walking. I started out on a SS, and I'm glad I did.


Don't kid your self that the SS is safer then the LCT. It's not.

I don't think a SS is safer and don't think I said that. I certainly didn't mean to imply it.

I believe if you take two hand loaders, one that has loaded 5K rounds on a single stage, and one that has loaded 5K on a progressive, the SS loader will be a better loader than the progressive one.

The SS loader has had more time at the bench. More time adjusting dies. More time pulling the handle. More time with isolated focus on each individual stage of the process. More experience.
Just my opinion.

XDRoX
10-28-2010, 16:09
May I proffer a hypothesis on the SS vs. progressive for your consideration? New loaders, (shooters) who start out on a SS press and stay with it for an appreciable amount of time end up being fundamentally better 'shooters' than those who start off with a progressive.


:goodpost:



Jack, you are wise.

GioaJack
10-28-2010, 16:22
how do you smoke and use the tank at the same time isn't that combustible?


In case the obvious has inexplicably escaped you may I point out that I am a man of many hidden and diverse talents. Among them is the uncanny ability to solve seemingly insurmountable problems;

I TAKE THE DAMN THING OFF BEFORE I LIGHT A CIGARETTE!

I solved that dilemma after only three flash fires. My daughter tells me I strike quite the handsome pose with no eyebrows. :whistling:


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
10-28-2010, 16:24
A lot of BS flying around this thread late. Loading on a single stage will not make you a better shooter. Single stage is not safer. This whole thread is just pure bias lately.

PRACTICE and GOOD FUNDEMENTALS make you a better shooter.

Your press aint got thing one to do with it.

Colorado4Wheel
10-28-2010, 16:37
I believe if you take two hand loaders, one that has loaded 5K rounds on a single stage, and one that has loaded 5K on a progressive, the SS loader will be a better loader than the progressive one.

The SS loader has had more time at the bench. More time adjusting dies. More time pulling the handle. More time with isolated focus on each individual stage of the process. More experience.
Just my opinion.

Again that my be your opinion but its not my experiance at all. Take a A.D.D. person and give him a single stage to load 5K rounds and a 650 to load 5K rounds. I promise you that A.D.D. person is better off with a 650. All you do is set the press up once. SS you got to do it over and over again. That leads to more potential problems. Never mind the A.D.D person going totally bezerk :wow: in the process and possibly zoning out a lot as a result.

What makes a good reloading is attention to detail. I think it's funny that I have loaded all my ammo on either a LCT, LM or 550. MY BEST ammo has come from my 550. Worst from my LM. Thats ammo quality I am talking about. Yet I get teased by people for actually measuring things. The press aint got thing one to do with someones ability to be a good reloader. They need to have a desire to have attention to detail and then choose to actually exercise that attention to detail. Switching dies all the time dosn't make you a better reloader. What it does is make a lot of people find short cuts (Lock rings with set screws for instance) so they don't have to do that tedious task over and over again. That doesn't make you a better reloader. It makes you want to take shortcuts. Again it's all about attention to detail. Has nothing at all to do with the machine.

Colorado4Wheel
10-28-2010, 16:46
I can agree that a SS might attract a person more inclined to be precise about reloading and a progressive is going to attract people more inclined to want to crank out a bunch of rounds and not care about the process of reloading. But in the end they are simply tools to be used and it's the user that is either a "Craftsman or an Idiot" just pulling a handle because they want to make some ammo real fast.

RustyFN
10-28-2010, 17:23
A lot of BS flying around this thread late. Loading on a single stage will not make you a better shooter. Single stage is not safer. This whole thread is just pure bias lately.

PRACTICE and GOOD FUNDEMENTALS make you a better shooter.

Your press aint got thing one to do with it.

I have to agree. I have never owned a single stage press and have never found a need to buy one. The quality of the ammo is up to the handle nut. Some people can load good ammo on any press and some can't. I think most of the problems I hear about come from charging cases in a loading block while batch loading.

EL_NinO619
10-28-2010, 18:21
Again that my be your opinion but its not my experiance at all. Take a A.D.D. person and give him a single stage to load 5K rounds and a 650 to load 5K rounds. I promise you that A.D.D. person is better off with a 650. All you do is set the press up once. SS you got to do it over and over again. That leads to more potential problems. Never mind the A.D.D person going totally bezerk :wow: in the process and possibly zoning out a lot as a result.

What makes a good reloading is attention to detail. I think it's funny that I have loaded all my ammo on either a LCT, LM or 550. MY BEST ammo has come from my 550. Worst from my LM. Thats ammo quality I am talking about. Yet I get teased by people for actually measuring things. The press aint got thing one to do with someones ability to be a good reloader. They need to have a desire to have attention to detail and then choose to actually exercise that attention to detail. Switching dies all the time dosn't make you a better reloader. What it does is make a lot of people find short cuts (Lock rings with set screws for instance) so they don't have to do that tedious task over and over again. That doesn't make you a better reloader. It makes you want to take shortcuts. Again it's all about attention to detail. Has nothing at all to do with the machine.

:popcorn::nailbiting::rant:

dudel
10-28-2010, 18:40
I don't disagree it's good to learn on a single stage.. but buy a press than can operate as "both".. rather than buying a Single stage, then a month later, buying something else.

I'm with XDRox on this. A good single stage will do things the LCT won't.

1) bullet swaging

2) Primer pocket swaging

and others. I put together a list some months ago. (I think it led Steve to get a SS)

The LCT is a workable starter press. It just doesn't have the strenght of a good SS. Problem is the play in the turret. The turret needs that play in order to rotate smoothly.

To me, the LCT tries to be a single stage and a progressive. It does both adequately; but is not outstanding at either. In the long run, I suspect most people would be better off with a good SS, and then if the hobby happens to be something they like (and they need an increased volume), then step up to a progressive.

dudel
10-28-2010, 18:45
I don't think a SS is safer and don't think I said that. I certainly didn't mean to imply it.

I believe if you take two hand loaders, one that has loaded 5K rounds on a single stage, and one that has loaded 5K on a progressive, the SS loader will be a better loader than the progressive one.

The SS loader has had more time at the bench. More time adjusting dies. More time pulling the handle. More time with isolated focus on each individual stage of the process. More experience.
Just my opinion.

Well said. Very much agree. Of course Steve with his ADHD needs to get his reloading chores done in 15 minutes tops. Take that into consideration. :supergrin: